Well...

And conservatives have told me that I'M arrogant!

Liberalism can be a mental illness... But if it is, then Conservativism is mental retardation.

You just have to get personal, don't you? Stupid *****.

drcynic drcynic
26-30, M
63 Responses Feb 25, 2009

I guess the one thing I don't understand about the medical terms of abortion is how can you say a fetus is not alive until a certain point? It has organs and body parts, and can feel pain. It has a heartbeat. Do people think a woman carries around something dead for nine months and then something alive pops out at the end?<br />
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The life cycle is a process, sure, but the fetus is always alive.

Political identification has gotten far too endemic in America that even those who espouse the virtues of taking each topic on merit continue to talk in "politi-code". <br />
<br />
Life, the scientific term, rather than "life" the political buzzword is exactly what I mean. I agree with several of you on the sentiment people need to deal rationally on issues and not follow a platform (paraphrasing, of course). At the same time I think it's so silly to also engage in word-smithery around a politicized hijacking of a word like "life".<br />
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Let's all be clear, here, all things which half self-sustaining biological processes are defined as "life" (uness/until someone changes the game by creating something like AI which brings this understanding under question). <br />
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Since *we* are "life", we can all agree that those things which we are composed of are part of such "life" too. The arguing over "when life starts" is all semantic garbage. Whether you believe an egg/blastocyst/fetus/unborn baby is not part of our "sustainable biological process" then it is "life".<br />
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What you jokers probably are meaning to say, in English rather than politic-inese, is "when, if ever, is it morally acceptable to electively terminate a pregnancy?"<br />
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When you put it that way, the correct answer, is "around the same time the religious and the secular find a way to agree on, and respect, each other's boundaries". In other words, never. The secular will always try to protect key liberties, and the religious are trying to find ways to do away with those which conflict with their moral compass.<br />
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It is an un-winnable, irreconcilable argument.

well said drcynic. <br />
ty for posting that blog its a good one

Thank you. *Bows*

Dr. Cynic - STANDING OVATION! You are awesome.<br />
[respectful curtsy]

That's fine, and I don't discount your right to have them. <br />
<br />
But it's best right now at this point to agree to just disagree, because there is nothing either of us could say to convince the other that we're right.

Just getting my thoughts out there. And you're right, I totally don't agree.

You and I will never agree on what life is, so this conversation will continue to go nowhere.<br />
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However, I don't believe in the concept of a soul.<br />
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Also, medically, a fetus is a part of the woman's body. It doesn't feel nor think. We will never agree on this, so it might as well not even bother.

It's not her body. It comes from her body, but a fetus has all the potential to develop a soul. It's a fetus that is dependent on the mother for sustainability, but vulnerability doesn't mean absence of life. It is an underdeveloped human being- it will always come out human, never anything else. When we start undermining life and determine that ceasing life in its natural progress isn't killing life I won't defend it.

Would you be offended if I said that under the law, you nor I have no right to dictate what a woman does to a part of her body? Because that's all a fetus is. It can't die if it's not alive, and I don't believe it is alive.<br />
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That's all. I certainly don't give much to abortion as I believe there are more pressing issues that are worthy of debate, but really... I don't believe a fetus is a viable living thing until the second trimester, and until such time, it is a part of the woman's body, and I support her right to do what she wants with her body, even if I personally disagree with it. As long as it's before the second trimester when the fetus is not a viable living organism.<br />
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That's how the law stands today, and that is what I support.

Death is everyone's business. Just because you don't believe it's morally wrong doesn't mean I'm not to believe it is. It's my right to be offended and take a moral stance against abortion, just like it's my right to protest and to speak up about it. Your right is to disagree with me, but I will never accept that it's "not my business".

Well, all the same, I respectfully disagree. Really, it doesn't matter what the reasons are. The reasons are irrelevent. It may be *** that it's a birth control method, but it's really nobody's business.

I think it depends on where you live. If you're an orphan in America it's very different than being an orphan in China or Romania. But all the same, I don't think it's a good enough reason to abort a baby/fetus.

It also is a problem that adoptive parents slip through the cracks and just use the children for a paycheck. <br />
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I'm just saying, with the abortion law, I support the status quo.

Statistically... I saw a few study's in medical journals done that shows adoptive children are often abused terribly and some commit suicide. <br />
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It's been awhile since I've seen it, but there's certainly risks to adoption, particularly those who are in the homes too long.

My ex boyfriend was adopted. Didn't hurt him any. And exactly how would you know that "adoption is worse"? That's prediction on a scary level.

Adoption is worse... Statistically, adoptive children are even more likely to kill themselves and suffer depression. <br />
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It just doesn't seem to be life, from what I've read, and I tend to agree that scientifically, there is no life to a fetus before the second trimester. I suppose we will, cause it would take a mountain of evidence to change my mind.

Neither do I. ;) I just don't really see it as my business. In Roe V Wade, Harry Blackmun listed all the medical testimony that proved the fetus was not a living feeling thing until the second trimester, which is the point to where abortion is legal.<br />
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I'm not saying me. I'm saying like me. Statistically, many abused children commit suicide into adulthood. I'm saying, I would just rather the parent abort a child if they're going to beat it.

Scientifically, it's not a living thing. If it was like that, then we'd be celebrating our birthdays 9 months before we're popped out?<br />
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I don't agree with it either, but it's not my place to do so. Honestly, if it would spare a child a miserable existence, akin to what I had... I say, abort them and save them the agony.

Actually, I don't believe that abortion is murder because I don't believe that a fetus is a living thing until a certain point, and by that time, abortion isn't legal in this country.<br />
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I one time did support the death penalty... But I now oppose it, mostly through economic reasons. Every study will tell you it costs more to execute someone than it does just to give them life imprisonment.<br />
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You also seem to not realize that American businesses will hire foreign labor because they work cheaper. That's the reason why they do it. It's about their bottom line.<br />
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Also, you seem to lack a grasp on the issue of employment. If someone is disabled and could watch kids, yes, sure they can do that, but what if they don't get hired? You would propose these individuals starve then?<br />
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As far as taxes, the income tax is a tax collected by the federal government, in order to fund it's existence. Sales taxes are collected through state, not the national government.<br />
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As far as Ford and Chevrolet, I know those that would disagree there as well... It's a matter of quality, comparing the two is like comparing ice cream and horse manure. I have friends that will swear by either brand. I don't drive, but there are differences in any car make.<br />
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And, having lived under both a Democratic and Republican administrations, I am of the opinion that liberalism is the ice cream and conservativism is horse manure.

I'm not a liberal and I'm not a conservative. It seems to me that you can find lack on either side...lack of common sense.<br />
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Conservative's believe in the death penalty, but are against abortion. Liberal's believe in abortion, but are against the death penalty. Aren't both of them murder? Yes.<br />
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Common sense would say, "If you can't afford it, don't buy it." "If we pay taxes on everything we buy, then why are we also paying income tax?" "If Mexico won't let a foreigner work there, unless it's a job a Mexican absolutely can't do, then why don't we do that in America?" "If someone is on disability, but can still manage to babysit half the neighbor kids, then why can't that person get a job at a daycare?"<br />
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It's like the fight between Ford and Chevy. Who cares if it's a Ford or a Chevy...at least it's American. That is how I see it. It should be PATRIOTISM. Not CONSERVATISM OR LIBERALISM.

Drcynic, very good story. <br />
Vendetta, every comment you've made really impressed me.. especially thanks for sharing that "joe" story. you said it was floating around the internet, but the only fwds i ever get are from my grandma - and she's way conservative

HEY!<br />
<br />
Enough!

Thanks Bushwakr. Whuttup, I posted my thoughts on Orien's challenge. I'm done here and going back to our turf. <br />
;-)

Everybody has a right to their own opinion and you obviously have your own. After all we are in america and some people forget that I think. Just want to let you know ther's nothing wrong with what you think that's all

You know it wasn't just Jesus but all the great figures of religion in history that were altruistic..........hmmmm<br />
Maybe they were on to something.............................

I'm impressed with orien, that's a long ways from his normal MO. I won't be participating in that thread since I'm still blocked from commenting on his stories, so go forth cynic and Jojo and anyone else that wants to. We'll see how long it stays a discussion instead of a screaming match.

This will be my one and only comment in here: interesting viewpoint. you make be interested in my new story in this group.

I can't say I'm quoting the story with 100% accuracy, but I recall the gist of it is the same.

The only problem is the conservatives want all of the fishing poles!

except in that analogy, liberals aren't for the idiot that buries the food and against teaching the guy that learns how to fish, they simply want to make sure that the guy who knows how to fish can get a pole.

I can't remember what it was, but conservatives seem to latch onto one story of Jesus that they think he was conservative...<br />
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Two hungry men were given a fish to eat. The first asked the fisherman if he would teach him to fish, and he did, and thusly, he was self-reliant. The second man took the fish and buried it, saving it for later, and hoped to get some more from the fisherman. When he never saw the fisherman again, he found that the fish he had buried was now rotten and he didn't know how to fish for another one.<br />
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Somehow, that's supposed to be an anti-welfare argument.

Oh my goodness! Jesus stood for all of those things like helping the poor and disadvantaged. Maybe Jesus was one of those "Mentally Ill Liberals!"

Yeah the conservatives have really fooled the Christians into thinking that not caring is the way to heaven,,, Imagine that.<br />
Bush proclaimed his faith and ran the country into the ground in the name of God destroying lives along the way.<br />
Of course the money changers had their way and can retire on the looting of America...<br />
All of this happened on the backs of the poor and middle class.<br />
There must be rewards in heaven for "Screw thy neighbor"

Hold on a second, I thought religion was all about judging people and figuring out which ones are going to burn in hell forever? What is all of this talk about helping the poor and disadvantaged? Higher taxes on the rich? Sounds pretty suspect to me. Isn't it all about hating baby killing abortionists and homosexuals? Oh and don't forget that Jesus was Pro-patriotism, Pro-America, and Pro-war, so all those pansy liberals that oppose war don't know Jesus very well.

In psychology terms conservatives are anal retentive and liberals are altruistic.<br />
This equates with liberals acting to help those who are disavantaged while conservatives typically are the ones who scream "Get a job"<br />
Conservatives have an easier life due to the family fortune or are the poor who have been duped by the former.<br />
Conservatives hide their money and coumt their coins in the dark while the liberals reach into their pockets to help those in need.<br />
Conservatives do give however but only when it means a fat deduction.<br />
Conservatives shout about religion yet they would exist as money changers and as haters of all things lower class.<br />
Liberals are the ones who would chase the money changers out of the temples and express love for all until confronted by those who would rage and insult them.<br />
True believers of what is right would be labeled as liberal.<br />
Those who are conservative try to get away with what ever then can.<br />
HSBC is opening the books on many who have hid their fortunes in Switzerland... Those are the conservative tax evaders.<br />
I as a liberal would welcome more tax monies to be taken out of my pay if it helped to strenghten our country and all its peoples.<br />
I am tired of seeing veterans homeless and the poor barely get by... or to have their heat turned off in the dead of winter and therefore they die.<br />
Who among you conservatives would sentence a veteran to freeze to death because he couldn't afford the money for his power bills as they soared?<br />
I believe with all my being that we should all care about each other.......... If you don't believe the same way don't talk to me about your religion.

Yes, one must be cautious and delicate with the mentally disadvantaged.

I certainly understand where you are coming from in terms of how difficult it can be to talk to people with conservative views. Many seem to live in an ivory tower and can be very vindictive when debating against their views. But we must remember they have been brain washed. Next time you try talking with them.....try it with a little honey. How does that saying go? "You can attract more bees with honey". Blessings!!

I keep thinking the health care gorilla is the insurance companies.<br />
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If we suddenly started buying "care" instead of "coverage" that would be a massive change for the industry.

I meant "someone who matters"... meaning someone who has the influence of being able to appear on tv or get published... I'm still somewhat powerless. Must be because I don't have that leotard yet...

Thank you, you just did! Did the superhero leotard come in the mail yet?

The 800 pound gorilla in the room that the Republicans don't mention is healthcare. They claim to fight for small businesses, but the biggest expense for small businesses is providing health care coverage for their employees. We are the only industrialized nation that has such a screwed up employer healthcare system which saddles businesses with covering something that could be taken care of with a Universal healthcare system paid through taxes. <br />
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I'm SO SICK of Republicans raising such a fuss over Obama ending the Bush tax cuts on those that make over $250,000/year because "it will hurt the small business owner"... Give me a BREAK. If they are concerned with the profits of small businesses, then they should be fighting to scrap our employer-based healthcare system. <br />
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When is someone going to point out their hypocrisy on this issue?

You rock DrCynic. Thanks for the story entry and the balanced comments, without flipping out. I can't remain calm talking about this so I appreciate that you can. We have been hit hard very over "the issues" these past 8 years and we are now below poverty level. <br />
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Wages have actually dropped in the past 2 years for the same position (no benefits, etc even offered) with added responsibilities. So one pitiful salary, 3 persons worth of duties, no breaks, half hour unpaid lunch, off the books...I can't keep going. If we could we'd have moved long before now. <br />
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Maybe I could get the government pay for IVF so I can give birth to a litter and collect from the state and federal offices (presumably) for the care of all the premature babies. Those Prada shoes would look so nice for my interview on Oprah...

Because of what I make in a year, I am technically upper-middle class. I pay a good deal of federal income tax, as well as state taxes, etc. I don't really get any benefits, and hardly qualify for any.<br />
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I still think that what is the smart thing to do is because I make more, I can afford to pay more. The only things I really can't afford are to see a doctor, but as I said. I'd gladly have my taxes go to that, than to the illegal war in Iraq.

i know right! ding ding!

I just made my argument more exhausted than I've been in a long time, I dunno how I managed to even get through it.

well i just think everyone needs to relax. times are ******* tough. everyone is so uptight with all the negativity thats going on. take a step back, deep breath. try to enjoy even the littlest of things. go to the jokes and riddles experience and read till you find one that at the very least makes you smile. thats why weed should be legal.

Ok, here's how it works... <br />
<br />
Folks like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc. They make billions. Their tax percentage is not a high number, though I don't know what it is. It's certainly under 20%. I think Conservatives often have a hard time grasping the idea that taking say 10% of one billion and taking 10% of $40,000 is a foolish idea. First of all, the economy depends upon those that make the forty thousand more than the billionaire. Those that make less are the ones who spend more, and keep the billionaire finacially solvent. If they stop spending because they can't afford to live, the billionaire loses his income, and will eventually go broke too. <br />
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It makes more sense to take more from a fianancially secure individual than it does from someone whose personal economy will fluxuate with the slightest breeze.

I am for making weed legal too... Though I gotta say... It did nothing for me.

im for making weed legal. just throwin that out there

I would agree that both groups are stupid. I would never have seen this group had it not been brought to my attention. Actually, there are a few things I break with my party over.<br />
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I am pro-gun, as I believe it is the right of every person (minus former felons) to own a gun. I don't support the restriction of any kind of gun, but I do support background checks and liscensing.<br />
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I am anti-affirmative action. I don't believe it is working anymore. I think we need a different system other than racial quotas. I couldn't for the life of me propose what, but I know something different is required.<br />
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I oppose the death penalty in all cases, unlike both parties.<br />
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I support gay marraige. If the church doesn't marry them, then the government can. My parents were married before a Judge and not a preacher.<br />
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Now, when it comes to my other personal "liberal" views...<br />
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I favor a progressive income tax based on income. A flat income tax hardly seems fair. Why would you charge someone who makes far less the same amount as a billionaire? I've certainly taken into account small business owners who do tend to struggle, which is why I've always supported government help for small business owners.<br />
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I believe in Universal Health Care... This is a very close issue to my heart, because right now, I have no health care. I cannot afford to go and see a doctor, and I couldn't afford to have even minor surgery without risking bankruptcy. When it comes to everything else, I am a successful individual, but I cannot afford a doctor.<br />
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I believe in the return to PAYGO... Which is actually a moderate policy... You may remember it from the 90s? What with all that economic prosperity and what not?<br />
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I am a protectionist. I live in Pittsburgh. I've seen what free trade has done to my city and my region. No doubt most industrial midwesterners just stood and cheered, for I've never met one who was a free trader.

This has been floating around the net for years, it's a nice summary of how things we take for granted owe their existence to us mentally ill liberals:<br />
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<br />
A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN:<br />
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<br />
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.<br />
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All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.<br />
<br />
He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.<br />
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In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.<br />
<br />
Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.<br />
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He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.<br />
<br />
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.<br />
<br />
If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.<br />
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It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.<br />
<br />
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.<br />
<br />
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.<br />
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He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.<br />
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The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.<br />
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He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.<br />
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Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

student I give you an A. that's why i'm an independent. i'm conservitive due to my faith and values not because of my politics.<br />
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continue with the thinking process you have started. look at each issue alone and decide based on facts, history, and truth what you feel will best solve the issue. Try to not fall into the mindset that the only way to look at politics at solve it's issues is to look to a "party" instead of common sense.

Looking out for those less fortunate than ourselves...fighting for worker protections that everyone now takes for granted (8 hour work days, no child labor, 40 hour work weeks, sick leave, maternity leave, FMLA, OSHA, etc)... fighting for civil rights and trying to make the constitution truly apply to everyone regardless of race, religion, or gender...<br />
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These are liberal causes. Apparently conservatives think these are all bad, nasty things that only mentally ill people can see as good. <br />
<br />
On the other hand, what do conservatives fight for? <br />
<br />
Lower taxes (preferably on the richest Americans)<br />
<br />
Smaller government (you're on your own, buddy)<br />
<br />
Less regulations (boy we're tasting the bitter fruit of less regulation now, aren't we? All hail the free market!)

when did this become a debate about mental ****? lol i thought is was a wonderful analogy

If it is a group here, I'm not a member. <br />
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I'm not in a glass house, lady.

Per Wikipedia: Is mental illness and mental retardation the same?<br />
<br />
No, not by a long shot. Mental retardation involves an extra chromosome and is present at birth. Or, a severe illness (like lengthy high fever) can cause some mental defects in children.<br />
Mental illness can be created by stress, heredity, genetic predisposition, or any of many other factors. It is not predictable or screenable. It can also vary from mild to severe with huge variances in presentation. It can also appear later in life to people with perfectly normal IQ's and reasoning skills.<br />
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My opinion....You could be born stupid but ignorance makes you an idiot

AHMEN! well put drcynic!

The difference is, mental illness can be treated and cured.

It's all within the individual to decide. As with everything one see's it their way and another see's it another way.

Mental illness and mental retardation are kindred spirits? Huh? <br />
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I don't think so.

One should know that when someone slaps me, damn sure I'm gonna slap back. <br />
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I never, ever made a personal attack on a conservative such as that before. I would rather have worked for better solutions, or even honest debate, but I damn sure will not be insulted.

thus the truth is now know. both mental illness and mental retardation are kindred spirits. could not one be mistaken for the other.<br />
<br />
So one personal attack begets a stronger personal attack therin proves the mental instability of all involved.<br />
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However, how does one determine the true issue of being "mental" on any level?<br />
<br />
Regardless we have to agree the goal of class warfare, race, religion, sexual orination, and political choice has successfully divided the country and ensured the "mental" status of us all.<br />
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Together we stand --- divided we fall<br />
<br />
which is the goal?