Can You Group Invaders Have An Intelligent Conversation

Ok, I have sat on the side and did not comment on the recent story by a liberal invader.

He saw fit to post in this group, and I thought I might learn something by reading all of the banter.  Most of it was pure drivel...anti Christianity, anti capitalism, etc.  The usual name calling was in there as well.  I did see a few comments that made some sense and this made me think that there may be a few self professed liberals that might be interested in starting a dialogue to see how wide of a gap exists between liberals and conservatives.

Here is my proposal:  I would like for anyone calling themselves a liberal to give me their core beliefs.  Tell me why you are a liberal and what you stand for.  If this transcends into an anti religion, name calling free for all, I will delete your comment.

The same goes for anyone calling themselves a conservative.

I will start, by saying that I am extremely conservative.  This means that I live my day to day life following my moral compass.  My morallity was instilled in me by a Christian upbringing.  I believe that one is totally responsible for the choices they made in life.  Nobody owes you a living and if you are able, you need to work and support yourself.  I believe that one should be rewarded for their hard work.  I also believe that the truly under priviledged should be shown compassion and if they cannot support themselves, they should be taken care of by their community.

I do not believe the government has any right to demand that anyone be charitable.  If I do not feel like donating some of my hard earned money, that is my perogative.  I will add that I contribute a great deal of time and money to worthy causes.  I believe that churches once did an excellent job at helping the down trodden, but with the government taking so much of our money in taxes, we have less to give the church.  I believe that there is a God and am respectful of those who believe otherwise.  I did believe the United States was a great country and a guarantor of freedom.  I always have loved my country, but feel that the principles of its' founding are being corrupted by politicians on both sides who's lust for power is destroying this country.

This is just a small insight as to who I am.  If you can intelligently explain your views without attacking me or another poster, I will listen with open ears.

orien orien
46-50, M
14 Responses Feb 26, 2009

Toby...thanks for your insight into what you believe.

But why do you think they do? Seriously.

Because they do! Have you been on ep very long. It gets pretty combative and some are filled with hatred.<br />
<br />
Bitlord is the most vile of the haters and this story was prompted by his attack of others.

Why do you think people get so offended when someone doesn't agree with their opinion?

I know this is not the spell-out-my-convictions response that you asked for, and maybe later I'll feel up to writing a longer comment. I just wanted to make an observation: i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that the average conservative, like the average liberal, just wants good things for the country. we are all going to agree that we want people to be happy and healthy and safe. <br />
it seems that so many just get hung up on the titles of the groups to which they belong. the only ones to worry about are those who let their political affiliations completely define who they are- even at the expense of their own moral sensibility.

Oh by the way,<br />
I had no children but have paid taxes all my life to have other's children go to school.<br />
I don't like the fact that my money is being taken for that but I look at it like this, If they don't go to school they are likely to turn to crime and society would suffer for it.

Hi orien<br />
I have a lot in common in beliefs that Jo just spoke of.<br />
I was raised Baptist and was first baptised in a dead box of water in a church at 9 years of age.<br />
My next baptism in the Church of Christ was in Febuary when I was 23. It was 28 degrees outside and we went down to a river.<br />
There was ice on the banks and I waded in and was baptised by a preacher that was willing to wade in so that I could be emersed in living waters.<br />
I have moved in other directions since.<br />
Jesus was a Jew and to some degree I put more study into the old testament though I don't attend churches any longer for the amount of social sniping there.<br />
I use to walk down the aisle of the church in bluejeans a peasant shirt and bare foot........"Take thy sandels off from thy feet for thou art standing on hallowed ground"<br />
Now my main readings are from books about the kabballah and I have studied within this subject for about 40 years.<br />
As for my political beliefs, I am a liberal with certain monerate leanings.<br />
I don't believe that abortion should be wholesale and used for birth control but I am pro choice.<br />
Here is why:<br />
I think if we compromised on this issue we could save lives.<br />
I believe that abortion should be allowed for rape, ******, life of the mother and for extreme mutation or malformation.<br />
I think abortion should be forbidden after the 3rd trimester.<br />
I also think that we should be required to be tested to have children.<br />
There are too many who abuse and even kill their children.<br />
I believe we should be encouraged to have no more than 2 children.<br />
I believe strongly in Zero Population Growth<br />
I believe that unless we can change the slide towards greed we are lost.<br />
I think there is a role for the government in ensuring that those in need get the help they need.<br />
I am not for a welfare stste and those who attempt to take advantage due to sloth shouls be prosecuted.<br />
I believe in a right to bear arms but don't think that should extend to all arms.<br />
I don't think criminals or the mentally disturbed should have that right.<br />
I think assault weapons should be banned except for the military and police as should cop killer bullets.<br />
I think the stimulous package is a necessary evil brought on by the excesses of the last 8 years and I pray we can turn this around.<br />
I believe healthcare has to be taken over and brought under control.<br />
I had a friend who last year had to stay overnight in a hospital room and he was charged 18,000 dollars<br />
Corporations and big business needs to be reigned in on how much they can rape us for their products.<br />
I believe insurance should be affordable for all and those who cannot afford it should be issued vouchers.<br />
I believe anyone who can work must work and those that can't should be cared for.<br />
I am altruistic and offer no apologies for believing that all major figures in history were as well and these are the paths we should follow.<br />
I believe those who would turn their backs on those in need have a special place reserved for themselves in hell.<br />
I believe in striving to be a pure light being.<br />
I believe the closer we get to the example set down by the greats in history the more likely we will be viewed with favor in the afterlife.<br />
I believe that love is the only way.<br />
Love for yourself, Love for your neighbor, Love for what is right and correct.<br />
I believe we should all try to be that Good Samaritan and a light unto the world

Thanks for the olive branch. :-) We just need to have mutual respect and agree to disagree. Now, I'm going back to my turf! LOL

Jo, thanks for sharing your thoughts. We share more in common than I thought we would. I also was raised in a very strict Catholic family.

Well, I will start by saying I am extremely liberal. I was raised in a strict Catholic family but formed my own opinions on religion at an early age. I can tell you, speaking my mind on it (yeah, I did that at an early age too) got me in trouble many times. I have accepted my beliefs and have lived my life according to the Golden Rule. I didn't need fear of hell to scare me into doing the right things, just being a citizen of the world made me want to do the right things.<br />
I am altruistic to the core. I care about the welfare of my fellow man. Maybe that is why I chose to work in health care. I grew up in a middle class family. My parents worked hard and I learned that an honest days work should give you an honest days pay. I learned at an early age that people were not being treated fairly, women we not paid equally. Blacks were not being treated fairly (that's an understatement) I think the unions did a great job of affording Americans a 40 hour work week, decent pay, no more child labor or exploitation of workers (until the unchecked migrant workers have been let to roam free throughout our country), health care benefits, etc. I learned to work hard and help my fellow man. My husband and I worked our way through college after we were discharged from the military. I also believed that serving my country in some way was the right thing to do. (That all changed after we invaded Iraq but that's another story)<br />
<br />
I recognize that there are people who scam the system and stay on the dole. Having said that, there are too many people who need a hand up and I believe the government should help people with that hand up. I also believe that health care is a basic right and it's not ok for citizens to have to forgo care because they can't afford tests, treatment and medicine. I think that health care should be a NOT FOR PROFIT entity because as soon as profit is added into the picture, greed takes over. No life, health or well being should be subject to people's greed. I know I will hear that people can go to the ER if they're sick. Well, I'm here to tell you it's the most expensive treatment and it clogs up the ER's and bogs down responses to true emergencies. The system is severely broken and as a result, it's abused.<br />
<br />
I believe churches should be taxed. The bring in all of this money, build bigger and better buildings to haul in the masses. The churches rely on the roads that we pay for to get the masses there. The inject their beliefs into politics.<br />
I know I'm going to get blasted on this too but I'm just stating what I think, like you asked. Churches provide services such as daycare and private schools. People get to write off the daycare expenses on their taxes. The church should pay taxes like the small business child care centers. Schools.............People are foaming at the mouth here for school vouchers. They want to be reimbursed for their "Taxes" that support the public school systems. I say that's crap. If you choose to send your child to private school, then pay for it. I shouldn't have to subsidise a private school when I'm already paying for public schools with their unfunded mandates. <br />
Lastly, I believe GREED is the cause of most of our ills today. Capitalism is a noble way to live but greed has taken the forefront and it has eroded morals and values in our country. People cannot help themselves when there are no jobs. I hear the screams about the stimulus package and I understand the frustration but I don't understand just standing by and saluting the flag when we spent 4 times as much on a war in Iraq that was totally unavoidable or the money that was wasted on bailing out Wall Street without any oversight. That is what is disgusting to me. Pigs at the trough!<br />
Thanks for hearing me out.<br />
Jo

thanks...I look forward to hearing from you.

Hi orien <br />
When I have a chance I would gladly discuss these issues on the terms you have stated.<br />
If you noticed I didn't attack anyone or call names nor do I plan to.<br />
I was raised as a Christian as well but I will never identify myself with the far right which is full of people who claim to be Christians but I question their claims.<br />
I believe you are who and what you say you are and thus I will return to comment soon.<br />
Right now I have to leave for one more long appointment.<br />
PLB

it may not be, but I am reaching across the aisle. If you look, you will see that liberals have an opposing group to this. I have not gone in there and attacked. It was the one guys posting in here that prompted this.

all you've said speaks for me as well. right now I do not know what more I could add.