ADHD and the Rest

you bring up good points you also could be dealing with a kid who has some kind of minimal organic brain damage



it could be a kid who by the age of 25 will be diagnosed legitimaately with a mental illness



i think kids today need more love and attention and their would be less need for discipine



you mention the medical profession well now schools are pushing adhd meds onto paarents so they can have little zombies who sit in chairs and don't want to move

the chess peices are already set on that board and not by me

just an fyi, you're still feeling rejected. Maybe someday you'll change your mood to happy. It's probably one of the signs of the end times, you'd best not do it.

speaking of sometning in need of a kick up the arse....



you would be suprised at the things i want and it starts with realzing its more than parents that need a wake up call

Since when do you want less problems, tulick? It's your life mission to be enraged, furious, angry, troubled, rejected, etc. You've exhausted all of EP's negative moods.

and how bout we give the system a "kick up the arse" BEFORE we give it to kids how bout we give kids back recess, how bout we stop strapping kidsto desks for 7 hours in grades k-5 put more movement into the classroom



how bout we work on engaging the students catering to their intelligence instead of dismissing it and i disagree about resources- its not a lack of resources its a lack of priority



pay good teachers a decent wage don't focus so much on the teachers qualifications and focus more on the pracical litmas test of can they manage a classroom are the students engaaged and are they learning does the teacher over all like what they are doing



if they fail this litmis test get rid of them and find people who pass it



i agree parents have to be inveloved but in the case of the 12 year old neither is the school involed they haven't checked to see if this kid is being bullied and thats why he's not in school or to see if he is highly intelligant and board to death and thats why he doesn't like school



because i read a story about a young man who was very bright very gifed begging for work exclleration and projects to feed his intellegence and he was forced to preform at gradelevel he turned to drugs and alchol to cope

is he failing a subject or two and needs to be put in touch with tutoring options to have a happier school ecperience



all of these things the school can look at and rule out before jumping on the case of the parent and perental invovement is assensial but even good parents spend so much time advocaating for their kids because the school doesn't care or know what to do



fix these things and we have less problems

theres nothing funny about stevesters generalization, godsmack666. (even he apologized for it). i dont understand why you, along with others, disregard the few parents who deal with these real life struggles just so you can belittle the ones that you deem as 'shotty'. there are too many shades of gray, why just think in black and white???



and before you start defending yourself, i get the point stevester was making, a lot of parents use adhd as an excuse for their kids.....i get it. but not all parents do, and those are the ones who get offended by these thoughtless generalizations that you so eagerly cling to.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

oh if you only had a clue

Brilliant story Stevester. I've been saying similar things for years. I just wish more people would say things like this more often, the only time I hear similar ideas are when House says it on tv (A great show but if we have to hear truths from a tv show then America has lowered the bar yet again.



Whereas these conditions are sometimes real (a mere fraction of the amount of people diagnosed for it and similar conditions) most of the time it is just an excuse for shotty parenting.



"I am a crap parent and want someone else to take responsibility for my ******* brat of a child who needs regular kicks up the arse to get them to do anything"



Lol, if more parents were honest they would say this EXACT line. Way to go Stevester!

The solutions to education to which you refer do take place in a number of schools but they are not generally available due to resources. Larger class sizes are a result of limited resources. The approach of teachers to sue your words, "crowd control" are a response to lack of resources. The diagnoses of certain conditions as a panacea to children's behaviour is also a result of a lack of resources. The time of the diagnostic and the time of remedial professional healthcare, educational and pastoral resources is limited. The result is to label and medicate where the alternatives are more resource intensive and thus more costly. I see plain cause and effect.

and that has what to do with the over diagnosing of ADHD and out of control kids ??????

Maybe there's just too many people on this planet for everything to work out. Do we have the resources to continue in this fashion. If we have full employment, then we have full productivity, ergo full consumption. Over consumption of the planet's resources is a major contributory factor in the migration of our environment.

and i wonder what would happen if teachers commanded respect and instead of demanding it i wonder what would happen if teachers were actually interested in teaching not just collecting a paycheck and/or health benifits



what would happen if schools everywhere relovutionized their classrooms engaged the students in what they were learning made it relevent to their lives made it interesting and fun to learn



rather than saying sit here and listen to me



what would happen if everything that was taught was taught in each of the 3-4 learning styles including the kenestetic learners who learn best by doing things(the younger kids learn best by doing anyway and the more you allow them to move and be rather than findinding ways to strap them to a desk



rather than catering to the visual and auditory learners



what would happen if we stopped teaching like its still the industreal age and taught in the infrmation age intigrated technology and more importantly things in these children's frame of refrence using examples from the things kids like to teach every subject



what would hapen if we stopped making classrooms an excersise in crowd control what if we stopped traiding recess for test scroes



what would happen if the teachers did these things to catered to the intelligence level of the kids rather than ordering them around



what would happen is there would be far less problems and much more learning the problem is the everyone else here is too busy being applaauled by behavior to see other problems too busy locked into respect and control to try a differnet appoach too loked into 20-50 years ago its too much of a blow to their ego to do anything ele



what would happen if once you got your education you could do something with it as we have college degree holders flipping burgers



we wonder why everything is so out of control because there's no rewaards anymore for doing good you go to school get aan education and do well even through college there isn't even a reasonable certintiy in getting a job forget in your degree feild



that 12 year old kid who was in court knows his parent can't afford college Pel grants don't even cover tuition and books there are only so many schlarships and someone who's trying for them will always lose out so what is the point of shoing up to a place you hate to get a worthless peice of paper to go work some more for another peice of paper that shouldn't be worhless but is so i can maybe get a job at fastfood



am i the onl one who says skip to the end- so yes the kids squrm in there seats and don't listen because there is no point



of course the kid is in trouble with the law little incintive not to be

Well its hard sometimes to reflect a certain tone in the written word. If you think sort of Chris Tucker doing one of his very irreverant sketches. Doesn't expiate my hurting your feelings. Once again apologies, you're a very cool person, Mea culpa, Mea maximus culpa.

well i did actually finish reading the story and the rest of the comments, it still doesnt deter me from my original statement...with that said, i do agree with dandy as far as the diagnosis of ADHD. i dont quite understand it myself. as far as my daughters case is concerned, this is what the doctored explained to me. because my daughters emotional issues are so complex, the best way to try to reveal and resolve them is to calm her down and make her focus, hence ADHD. to me, that makes sense because in cases where the parents arent the culprit you need the children to focus on these issues inorder to discover the underlying cause. i dont agree with over medicating to the point where your child barely functions with others. i think just the right amount, however, allows the child to focus and calm down to the point that she can properly express how she feels (at least thats how it works with my daughter). and by properly express, i certainly dont mean in a 'normal' way because my daughter still has outbursts. but to me, the manner in which she does it is an actual improvement because she will actually tell me whats wrong and we can talk it out. most people dont realize that when they see her have an emotional outburst, they might just assume the medicine isnt working, but this is not the case.



i also want to address the issue mentioned above about doctors not doing their job. i completely agree (to a point). my daughters psychologist only saw her long enough to treat her with ADHD. i think counseling along with the medicine would be a wiser choice, but i try to make up for that by discussing her feelings and her daily struggles with her (just being a good parent). i do like to think that most doctors would recommend combined counseling with the kids whom are older. i dont agree with the parents who dont put in that extra effort required to truly help their child. but i also dont agree with the ones who refuse the possibility that their child might need more help than they can give them. to me, those parents who feel they are helping their child could very well be hurting them.



and yes, stevester, i got the point you were making, its the manner in which you did it that i found rather repulsive.

btw, my other concern with the rising cases of "ADD", is i wonder if the docs are really doing their job, or if they're only in it for the money. if you catch my drift.



i personally think all other measures should be taken, before prescribing medication. especially in the instance of children.



i suspect a lot of kids that are diagnosed don't even have ADD. but that's just my opinion and i certainly can't prove it.

of course, knowing antiyou in real life, i can vouch for what she says. a single mother of 3 working her *** off :)

i'm very proud of my anti :)



however, i don't say this lightly, and i'm certainly not trying to offend anybody, but i'm not sure about how i feel about the diagnosis "ADD" or "ADHD". many days i want to say that's its all a load of crap. as far as the cause of what's going on with these children: i'm sure many, many factors come into play here. we feed them foods filled with chemicals, food dyes, high in sugar; then sit back and expect them to behave like good little robots. something's not right here. and to fix that, we shove medications down their throat. medications we aren't sure about the long-term effects of.... it disturbs me.



some children might very well do better on medications. it's a major learning process trying to figure that out.



however, i do know (personally) of parents that blame every bad behavior on ADD (trying to say their 1 year old had it, and that's why they didn't "listen". last i checked, no 1 year old actually "listens" to the parents. interest in their environment rules everything at that age. it's a good thing, actually, when they're curious to explore the world around them. it means they want to learn!) these are the kind of parents, that instead of child proofing the house, slap their baby's hand away from the big box fan 60 times a day. then they get upset when the baby doesn't "learn". so they're willing to shove the medication down their throat, so they don't have to deal with any actual parenting.

(just a reminder, i do know the people i'm speaking of quite well, so i'm not making any generalizations about them.)

Antiyou, go for it. I don't write stuff and then hide from the comments. Sometimes i do it to provoke a response. You didn't read my other comments. Generalisations do tar with the one brush but you know the point I was making.

you go



and the thing that is most irritating about this story is not that most of the examples he presented seemed to be of parents that needed to step up and be parents



its that even if the parent were setting boundries and doing all they could to get their kid in line with the social standard it wouldn't be enough for people like him or educators or it seems anyone



its dammed even if you do

'Her child suffers form Attention deficit hyperactivity (I am a crap parent and want someone else to take responsibility for my ******* brat of a child who needs regular kicks up the arse to get them to do anything) disorder.'



--you know, thats as far as i got while reading your story....and i dont intend to read any further, i simply intend to say **** YOU...and i will admit this is going to be the rudest comment i've ever written on this site.....(and it is precisely because of your horrid, blatant generalization, that yes, indeed struck a nerve)....



you do not know what some parents go through while trying to raise a child that they, quite honestly, just cant figure out....at least thats the best way i can describe it. you're so confused and you dont know whether you're doing a good job or a bad job and when you finally seek outside help, you have to endure ignorant ***** like you who condemn that which they dont understand. i admit, i dont fully understand ADHD, and i dont fully understand my child at times....and that fact alone, is one of the hardest things i have to live with. but you know what, i'm ******* trying (along with many other parents)....yes, some abuse the system and think some pill is an instant cure, but we arent all a bunch of mindless fucktards running to the pharmacy once a month cause we're too lazy to raise our kids to your standards!



and not to mention i worry every ******* day about how this may effect my daughter in the long run, but while i wrap my head around that i also cant ignore the fact that her medication is indeed working. it doesnt work perfectly, but it is a definite improvement (she also has combined mood disorders, if you'd like to poke fun at that)....



and let me add, she is the only one out of my three children who has any disorders, so i'm pretty certain that its not my teaching method that landed her this way or else all my kids would be ******, right....at least according to your logic......



i'm not sure why or how ADHD came to be, but i can say it is certainly more complex than that of your simple minded view. i know it is real (based on my experiences and the experiences of other parents who are dealing with this). and most importantly, i know i have my daughter on the right path to improve her overall focus and stability. it takes more than just a pill every morning, both her teachers at school and i work with her everyday...



and ordinarily, stevester, i love what you have to say....but for this instance, i find you to be rather uneducated on the matter.

Flugel. I agree to label is to disable.

"blatent lack of manners and respect he shows to everyone rather than accept responsibility for the child she has brought up."



here's another one how bout adults be respectable how bout we stop worrying so much about manners and start worrying about not making children prey for preditors

ADHD is a real condition...I don't think anyone disputes that fact. In the brass band I am in there is one child in particular that has ADHD - and you can tell from his behaviour - he has difficulty sitting through an entire practice and he cannot concentrate for long. BUT his partents have him involved in a lot of stimulating activities like sports and music etc and he is on a special diet so he has less need for medication. I know his family and they do their best to ensure that he is getting as much stimulation as needed and that he also does well in class and has lots of friends. It is hard work.



I also know parents whose children have been 'diagnosed' as having ADHD - and I know myself that the only thing wrong with them is that they have no boundaries. One lady told me that when her child was 3 she was told by a doctor that he was out of control and she needed parenting classes to learn how to set boundaries and how to deal with him. Ten years later another doctor told her he had ADHD. She never went to those parenting classes and there is nothing wrong with her son that a healthy dose of discipline wouldnt solve, but it is easier to give him medication and use his 'condition' to justify all of the trouble he causes, the rudeness and blatent lack of manners and respect he shows to everyone rather than accept responsibility for the child she has brought up.



I think that because I know how hard it is to deal with a child with ADHD when you are trying to bring them up properly I get so annoyed when I see parents that just havent bothered setting boundaries just slapping a label on their kids and using it to justify everything they do.

and here's another thought why is it we want to strap smaall children to desks for eight hours and not let them move



we have teaching methods trapped in the industerial age when we live in the infromation age



its sit here listen to the teacher aand unforutatly the teacher sounds like ben stien from Farris buler



then want to cram more of them in a class so that clarooom management becomes crowd control and they take away recess to improve acedemics music and art get sliced for not budget



of course the teacher wants them medicated because then they sit like little drones and you wonder why the 12 year old doesn't want to go to school



would you



and why should he by this time he knows his parents can't afford college the typicaal pel grant does not cover all of even tuition and books by now he has freinds with older siblings or siblings freinds that have gone to college gottten a degree and STILL can't find a job



or is flipping bugers which is what he'll likeky be doing anyway so what again is tthe point????????



take it from me i was the good kid A&B student got into the local college o my chioce graduaated *** lade and if i was physically able i would be flippling bugers to pay the bills because despite my degree and other training I CAN"T GET A JOB



with no opportunities whats the point????????

Hello. I have to say that agree with BOTH Stevester AND Tulick in particular here.



IMHO, I think that any parent who says their child is "out of control" -- or in the alternative, takes the easy way out by allowing their child to be overmedicated -- is in the wrong. It is a pity that society does not hold such parents to their account.



I hope that my views will be taken with a good pinch of salt, because I have NO experience with out-of-control children. Yes, I am incredibly sheltered. For better or worse...



AP

Well said. Big Pharma has a vested interest in pushing drugs. Ritalin is another classic example. It seems easier to medicate than correct behaviour. This approach also reinforce the idea that everything that is expressed has some biochemical origin, it doesn't the vast majority is learnt behaviour. Do people shout more in public now than 30 years ago. the answer is yes they do. Does it matter, the answer is yes it does. Self restraint is the key to self control. The brain has to be taught to do things and repetition is the way it learns.



But the horror of all this is once again the genuine cases struggle. A colleague whose child was borderline Aspergers/Autistic struggled to get a classification. In the pervers system we live in it was better to be classified as autistic but they presented symptoms as seen and only when they realised the game and exaggerated things a bit did they get the correct result.

Of similar interest is the epidemic of medicating children. Clinical depression is classified as feeling low or depressed for 2 weeks. 2 weeks? That would constitute everyone in puberty, and yet 'they' think a teenager that is depressed for 2 weeks needs medication. So instead of them learning how to cope with their frustrations which are completely normal, they get used to drugs.



So is anyone surprised that we've arrived at Abilify? A drug made specifically to be taken even if you are on paxil or prozac or some other drug like that but you are STILL feeling depressed? Abilify is the most outrageous symptom of our overdrugged society I've yet seen. If you're already on drugs and still feeling depressed, ask your doctor about Abilify.



What a bunch of crap. Big Pharma rules Washington.

Tulick, in my normal style I have satirised the issue to make a point. Bipolar disorders, evidence of abuse, abnormal brain patterns and so on are in a whole different league to what i'm talking about. Where there is actual medical evidence is one thing. On the other hand is observation and assumption, quite often by staff who do not have the time or resources to really carry out an investigation. There's evidence of parents coaching the symptoms because it carries benefits. Then There is the widespread acceptance that people are no longer in control of their children because it is someone else's responsibility. There is a general abrogation of responsibility and in the place in which I live there are whole swathes of society without any input to or respect for their communities. It starts in kindergarten.

no ADHD is not- it is a real conditon ty penington (of extreme makeover home additon has it)



he was not put on meds until he was in college but he talks about playing socoer and being able to see where he needed to be being aable to focus for the first time



also kids suspected of havining ADD and ADHD are offten found to have food alergies when given choclet or eggs their handwrithing is all messed up they can't sit in a seat and do work focus so there's that too



i agree the cases listed here are cases of parents be parents



but Montel in one of his last shows before going off the air did a sow on kids w/ disorders like this kids who had parental boundiries kids who were disiplined but kids who were STILL hitting their parents pulling knives one kid who called social servies on her step dad for sending her to her room for something accusing hiim of who knows what (that kid was missing real dad and as the phycoligist on the show staated was expressiing it in a very patholgical way)



they also stated in other countries they don't belive in these disorders and haad a teen on there who waas diagnosed bipolar and w/ therapy and meds the wild behavior stopped



DR phil had a teen on his show who was throwing blenders and acting crazy she was evaluated courticy of the show by a top neroulogical facility and they found her brain waves were literaly backwards after treatment for a number of hormonal imbalances she was a completly different person



also sociologists have idientifed things like mininal brain disfucttion that has impulse control implications there are impulse control disorders treating real disorders is the goal



oh and part of that unstable home life may have been any number of froms of abuse as well