Societal Misconceptons

We have all heard that crossdressing is WRONG and that we will not be accepted into heaven because we are an abhorration.
I have spent many hours reading and studying this as (obviously) I have a vested interest.

I just visited a website http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?16834-CrossDressing-and-Society-s-stigmas which had a few very interesting points to ponder.

I will insert part of the opening text which gave the forum its start.

"I feel very strongly, that in dealing with this topic, one cannot overestimate the influence that The Bible has had upon Western Civilization. It is undoubtedly the most influential text in the history of Western Civilization. Deuteronomy 22:5 states clearly that "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Furthermore, we read in Deuteronomy 23:17-18 and more specifically in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 that "You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination." and "If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

Now, I don't really want to get into a deep discussion of homosexuality here. This is, after all, a CrossDressing forum. However, society at large lumps us all in together for better or worse. Many of us have, in this forum, stated flatly that they have had fantasies of sex with men, but in doing so, they fantasize that they, themselves, are women. This, I think is not homosexualism, rather something else altogether. But since the Western Civilization seems to toss it all into the same bubbling cauldron, it is important to understand just where these prejudices come from.

I believe that for the most part, we can all agree that the prejudices many, if not most, people carry regarding CrossDressing are rooted right in those passages that I quoted above. And these prejudices are the prevailing forces behind not our CrossDressing, but rather the way we, as CrossDressers, approach this practice. We hide. We hide it from our wives for fear that she won't and will not EVER understand and accept this behavior, and that as a result, we will lose her and be devastated at the loss. We hide it from our friends for fear that they will not understand, will label us as homosexuals and perverts, and as a result, our friendships with them will be unalterably changed for the worse or destroyed altogether. We hide it from our co-workers for fear of ostracization in the workplace, possibly causing our work to be compromised, or causing a loss of our livelihoods. We hide from the rest of the world, fearing even going out among people, fearing that we will be "read" by others, possibly risking injury or death from a public that does not accept such behavior. Note that these broad generalizations do not pertain to 100% of us, but rather what is probably the majority of us.

We overcome these fears, and emulate women as best we are able, so that we can go outside and try to feel what women must feel like when they are out among others. But in reality, we cannot do so: women do not feel that "fish out of water" feeling, that rush of nerves, that we as crossdressers feel when we successfully insert ourselves into society if even for short periods of time while we shop, get gas, or just walk through a mall."

The previous text was copied and pasted.

The problem that I see at this point is that we are led to believe that what "the religious leaders" are preaching to us is true.

One only needs to look back in history to see that many times the religious leaders (hereafter called RL) have been horribly wrong time and time again.

Do you remember the big hubbub about the world being flat?

What about how Galileo was treated for DARING to say that the earth was not the center of the universe.

I was raised as a Roman Catholic and do believe in God, I just have a problem with the church's (man's version) of the word of god.

There is another big problem, and that is that women are the "weaker sex" I'm pretty sure that I would much rather deal with a male grizzly bear than have to try to deal with a mamma bear defending her cubs.

As I have said in other posts I worked as a bouncer in a very tough bar in Toronto, we had many bikers and such, and as a result had many fights to deal with, guys were predictable and once you had them subdued they would generally stop fighting, women on the other hand were a "whole new ballgame".

In my opinion men are the "weaker sex"...sure we may be physically stronger, but females posses the real strength to be reckoned with.

It is my opinion that this is why most (if not all) religions project the image that men are stronger and that females are inferior.....the RL are afraid of women taking control.

This is why the church and to a much higher degree Islam fears the empowerment of women.

Women are more compassionate, have been taught to show more love, and god forbid the poor soul that might cross their path.

I welcome all comments to this post and look forward to some HEATED DEBATE!!!!!

Yvonne

Idare Idare
51-55, M
15 Responses Jan 11, 2013

I was raised Catholic too. I can still remember a time I accidentally wore swimsuit bottoms to church. It thrilled me and humiliated me.

the thrill....combined with the risk of being caught.....adds to the excitement!

Totally. And yet since then, I'd love to dress and go to church. My outfits would not be available at all.

I don't believe in god and wasn't raised that way, but I understand that for people who were raised with the belief, it is hard to break away from thinking in those terms. I myself am not a gender dysphoric who feels he is a woman trapped in a man's body, I dress for sexual gratification. I can only say that I think any god who would send you to hell for wearing women's clothes and not hurting anyone, must be a very cruel god. Lastly, I send my love to you, as a crossdressing sister.

Hi idare

Google "The Gender Tree" a ton of information.

Good luck and God Bless

Hi,

Well now I have time for our chat!
I do have a problem in believing in the bible and the hole god stuff!
To have a god who hates gays and cross dressers is hard for me to understand!

When you look at the development of the child in the womb we can see that if a child has a high level of testosterone the child will have strong masculine trends if it’s a boy or a girl!
The same has been seen for the amount of estrogens’ the developing baby comes in contact with!
So you can have a girly girl right through to a full gay male who is the softest person you have ever seen!
And that’s how we are made so you must say that is how god made us! So why hate us?

Do you know the first writings of JC was 300 years after he was dead!
And Revelations was written when the King James Bible was written.

I have studded the book and have found there is about 30 types of excepted bible translation that is classed as the bible! And that is nothing to do with languages!

All I can see is its man who is using god to controls and divide people! That way they make you feel guilty for being normal!

And If its only man who has sinned against god why did he kill all the animals in the flood?
Also you can see that in the animal kingdom you have gay animals! (AS above the Testosterone V Estrogens battle!!)
You can look that up in Google…

After reading the contradictions you have in the bible. And it’s the word of god! We have the contradiction what just do to add up! However you will find plenty who will give it spin and say that he was trying to say was …………….! It’s a another thing you can look up! (Contradictions in the bible!) Look at both side of the argument and decide for yourself!

I do not want to stop you from believing I am just saying why I do not believe!

So I can dress as I want, I have no guilt for being me! It’s a Free Thinking that will help others its having tolerance for others! And just so you know I can find my morels not in the bible but I work on do no harm to others and if I do harm I must take responsibility for it!

I am looking forward to your responses!

FONO!

hi,,i always have an argument over my catholic faith upbringings, i do agree it is man who twists the gospels to suit himself ,,for eg, why remove 5 major gospels from the bible in the first place ? where are the writings of micah? jesus apparently had him write his teachings down! no-one knows as all were apparently destroyed way back around 1800 yrs ago , and i agree god cannot make mistakes so me being me is his choosing ,so condemn me and you condemn god ,,,,, and angels are sexless? hermaphrodites? who knows ,,,,, god so,,,that being that if you want to acknowledge him accepts you as you are and not how the hypocritical clergy of this world portray,its says clearly we are all forgiven our eternal sins a gift of jesus so,,, , so that being that ,who can say anything about god? not me ,not anyone ,, we leave our gender behind in the end surely? so,,,go live how you like just dont murder or harm anyone etc ,,you dont need god to tell you that surely ?? live lovingly ,live pure of heart ,,but live !!!!!!! xxxxxx

I agree with you, I was trying to make the point that it is the Religious Leaders, that would treat us with disdain, and is doing so convince others to follow.
It would appear that ALL religions have factions that wish to maintain control and will do anything to stay there.
Actually I have found that the general population is becoming more accepting, and less intolerant. Albeit very slowly.

Hi,
I will love a good long tete-a-tete! However my time is limited just now!
I will come back to you!

god says clearly at the end of the bible ,that all who call to me will be forgiven completely ,,moreover there are many gospels that were left out of the early and later bibles after translation that state god condemns no-one for anything because jesus cleared all sin b4 him ,,however in these other gospels left out to control the people as it is said that man has been sent forth to create familys ? i believe that god will forgive you if you ask him ,, its plainly obvious i was born this way as i was in dresses b4 old enuff to know it was "wrong" many times i asked myself if i was a sinner ,mant times i told myself what the bible says ,,god never makes a mistake therefore he made me this way !! for me thats enuff to make me happy with him ,as for the thousands of hypercritical homophobics ,,rthey can go to hell if u excuse the pun !! xxx

wow,,you are talking my language here,, i too have hidden my transgendered person all my life as i was beaten by my stepmother for being what i am !, i wish i had the support and courage to deal with it 40 years ago ,or by now i would be female in proper ,is it too late at 58 to do trhis? where do i start ? and how do i tell all my friends i want a sex change ,and have been a closet crossdresser all my life? i would go out as a woman everyday if it were not for the homophobia of the ordinary man! i have had more female clothes than male ones all my life ,i have even gone to church in a bra and panties under my skinny girls jeans or trousers even , and a blouse! but a l;ong jumper hides many things and they dont notice or just ignore the fact ?? but they always notice in town and laugh at me which is very hurtful and demoralising ,, it makes me feel so small and sad ,,however in britain the womens clothes shop evans are really nice ladies who help you buy and try on your purchases as a cross dresser ,, :) i am always treated well in their shops ,,and they have lovely clothes too,and shoes that fit size 10 feet ! but yes in britain where we are meant to be a totally tolerant society crossdressers are usually humiliated by societys men xxxx

I think that given some time and exposure (by brave souls like us) we may eventually put a dent in society's conventional armour.
When you are out and someone snickers or laughs we need to not give in to their narrow minded views and carry on.
You go gurl and forget about those who need to be educated.....just smile and go about your business as if they were not there.

Yvonne

thank you <3 i will keep trying xxx

In many cultures, transgendered are not only accepted, but respected.
As for biblical verses and Christian doctrine, much of what people believe is heresay or whatever is familiar. Apostle Paul said women should koeep their heads covered and b silent in the church. Jesus never said a word about sexual issues, but he did have plenty to say about the hypocritical religious leaders.

Those same verses from the dispensation of law in the old testament also condemn eating anything from a cloven hoof or that crawls upon the earth......or sowing more than one kind of seed at a time..........and on and on. Slavery was an acceptable practice and condoned.........

You keep on with you girly gurl self and never you mind what judgmental people have to say. Be honest, yourself, and happy!

Well I like who I am...and nobody is going to cause me to change that.

Couldn't agree with you more Idare about women being the True stronger gender. It has always been my observation that Women were the glue that held the family...and therefore the society together. They...for the most part...raised the kids...took care of the home and set the direction for the family. Men quite often...worked so hard and such long hours they had little energy left for anything. Any energy that was left was spent on the grunt work associated with maintaining a home.

And then there were the other kind of guys. The ones that smacked their wives and kids around. The ones that gambled away their pay checks or got drunk all to often. The ones that secretly despised their family responsibilities and their inability to deal with such.

Women...not only grow up earlier...stay in school longer...strive for higher education and take on more responsibility...both in the work place as well as home. Now of course I'm NOT lumping in ALL of any one gender but it is also true that I've noticed these behaviors far too often for far too long. In addition to directing the family and dealing with the kids...Women also had to look good doing it...try staying beautiful with four or five kids. At least when I was young they went all out just to look glamorous.....and That's when I fell in love with all things Fem.

So now I ask you....how could anyone look at Women as the "weaker sex"? Makes no sense to me!

Certainly, food for thought. Does the text raise any new testament passages in support of the argument?

not really...but if you read between the lines......?
I think that too many of the present day religious conflicts are based on ancient text.....people arguing and even willing to kill over words written thousands of years ago.
perhaps it is time to enlighten the masses

Interesting post Idare. You mentioned how a person can get ostracized by their co-workers if they found out about that the person is a crossdresser.

That reminded me about the famous case of Peter Oiler vs Winn Dixie where he was fired from his job as a truck driver for crossdressing while off duty. He went to court and lost the case and the firing of him by Winn Dixie was upheld. Civil Action No. 00-3114, issued September 16, 2002 by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana.

His is not the only such case of discrimination based on gender identity. Another noted case is about a man who worked for Eastern Airlines as a pilot, had sexual reassignment surgery and returned to work as a woman. He was discharged from employment and the courts upheld the decision. Ulane v. Eastern Airlines Inc., 742 F.2nd 1081 (7th Circuit, 1984), cert. denied, 471 U.S. 1017 (1985)

I am sure that there are many more cases where an employee is ostracized for displaying their sexual identity.

Ref:
Termination of a Crossdresser, is it discrimination? By Michael H. Boldt, http://www.icemiller.com/publications/3/1072863.htm

The Flip Flopping Crossdresser, by Dallas Denny, International Foundation for Gender Education, http://www.ifge.org/?q=node/53

Winn-Dixie Admits Firing Man for Cross-Dressing Off-Duty; ACLU Asks Federal Court To
Rule Without Holding Trial, http://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights_hiv-aids/winn-dixie-admits-firing-man-cross-dressing-duty-aclu-asks-federal-court-rule-w

On the aftermath of his firing by Winn-Dixie and the court judgement against him. (3/10/03), Gender Talk Radio, http://www.gendertalk.com/radio/index/idx_crossdress.shtml

thank you for the links I will go and check them out .....then reply

The situation with Winn-Dixie is absolutely pathetic, and should never have happened. But it does show how closed minded some members of society are.
It really is terrible that Peter Oiler was subjected to such ruthless treatment for daring to express himself differently than others.
I think that although society is getting better at understanding peoples differences there obviously is a long way to go before we can be assured of fair and equal treatment.

Great post!!!! I think the Catholic church has screwed up countless numbers of lives with their teachings in regards to sexuality. I guess my soul will be consumed by eternal damnation for laying with another man and cross dressing to boot. I'm a bisexual sissy and am proud of it!!! I won't be ashamed of that!!! Also I think you are 100% spot on in regards to women being the stronger sex. I would welcome a change where society deemed women to be in charge. Especially in world development. No alpha males allowed!!

The conclusion is accurate. For years I carried guilt shame fear of hell and damnation for my love of nylons and my desire to be female. As a male (which I have to be to earn a crust) I just do not feel complete. When I dress as Charlotte I feel liberated empowered in a good way and I know Charlotte is the complete me. No more guilt no more shame,

absolutely ,,,i feel the same too,xxx

<p>Sorry, no heated debate will be forthcoming from this CD. Your comments are well thought out and, for me, ring of the truth of the matter. I supect that the RL's and the people of the RL's will give you that argument but it appears that you have already rebutted whatever they may say. <br />
<br />
Thank you for your research and for the thoughtful comments on the issue as it exists TODAY, which is the pertinent issue.</p>

Thank you for your feedback there is one other point to make and that is that these passages are from the old testament and were made obsolete upon the release of the new testament......lol times were changing.
Either way I am willing to happily accept myself as a sinner if that is the case.

Loved the story. I think the fact that the bible mentions crossdressing is proof that it has existed as long as man himself. At some points in history it was even acceptable and one day we will be enlightened enough to accept it again.