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Come On, Guys. You Can Do Better.

I have just finished having a conversation with a local friend of mine which ended on a rather unpleasant note after he began making crass comments and calling them "jokes". At first, I explained to him that those types of comments may be common place among other males but around women, they shouldn't be spoken at all, especially if the woman happens to also behave herself like a lady.

Still, he wasn't very quick to admit that yes, he'd crossed a line that he shouldn't have. He explained his comment as having been intended to be less "sexual" and more of a means of his expressing to me that he's proud of me for doing what he considers to be "real work". I let it go at that only because had I continued on in the conversation, I might not have spoken to him again for quite some time.

So can someone please tell me what it is about men these days that when they encounter a woman that is actually respectable, they either consciously or subconsciously attempt to knock her down a few notches with their words? For instance, I have girlfriends who answer to the name "hooker". Such as, "Hey hooker! What's up!?" Now I can't speak for other women but personally, I've never been a hooker a day in my life and I've never answered to such a label, nor do I plan to. In fact, I don't even think actual hookers should answer to such a word and it isn't because I don't understand the "humor" dynamic behind it. I get it. I just don't find it acceptable.

And men.. why, oh why must you look for any and every opportunity to slip in some sort of sexual innuendo into random conversations with your female friends or women you're interested in? Honestly, don't you realize that almost every other guy is throwing the same kind of nonsense at her and if she's the type of girl that plays along with you, she's also the type of girl that's playing along with all of the other guys dropping thinly veiled sexual hints in her direction? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this and yet when they encounter a decent woman who expresses that she'd prefer not to hear it, men actually defend their "joking" even when it clearly offends the woman they're "joking" with.

Online, it can be even worse than in person though. Men online seem to think that since they can't be slapped in the face or publicly humiliated by a woman who refuses to be treated like a tramp, that they have free reign to just say whatever offensive nonsense comes to their minds. It's honestly depressing, because unfortunately, I realize that the only difference between the online version of men and the offline version is the anonymity. At the end of the day, they're all the same guy. (Typically, speaking anyway. Thank God there are plenty of exceptions to this general rule. If you're one of them, please, please never change.)

It's so unfortunate that women (and men) these days feel that in order to not be perceived as prudish or boring, they have to accept being adressed as though they are less worthy of being treated with respect and dignity than they actually are. If you have boundaries, you're accused of having no sense of humor because the person making offensive, rude, crass or explicit remarks will rarely ever admit that they in fact are the ones that are out of line so they instead justify their own poor taste by calling it "humor".

Sigh.

Just be a gentleman, guys. A true gentleman.

Is that really too much to ask for?
Intelligently Intelligently 31-35, F 9 Responses Jul 11, 2012

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I think part of the problem here is this : with worldly women, who are of course very much the majority, some attraction teachers (not all) are telling men that they need to put sexual innuendo in the mix as soon as possible. Otherwise those worldly women, who are expecting such innuendo, will assume that the men are undersexed wimps and park them in the "friend zone" where they're in effect permanently ineligible to be promoted to boyfriend status. Some men simply aren't going to be bright enough to recognize when they're dealing with a woman who doesn't have worldly expectations or to recognize that a different approach is necessary for such women. But for someone like you, it does have an upside in that it helps you quickly recognize someone not being your type, saving you some time and trouble even if the experience p***es you off.

Part of the problem also is the culture. I gave up watching what I call "TV fiction" a long, long time ago. As I understand it, for a long time network sitcoms have just been one double entendre and dirty joke after another. Much the same with standup comedy acts, I believe.

Many years ago, when I was dating, I kept running into the problem of many women find me to be too nice, too gentlemanly, and too courteous. I was even told this several times. I was in the military, in an elite institution every one of us Type A personalities, but also almost all "old fashioned," or "Knightly."

A couple of times I lost girlfriends to "bad boys," who where going nowhere, treated people with contempt, lacked courtesy, but were wildly popular with women. This was more than 40 years ago and things have only gotten worse.

I knew how to have fun, to skirt the rules, to take risks, etc., but was smart enough and sufficiently schooled to know when, where, and under what conditions so as to achieve success and avoid trouble.

Today, it would never occur to me to address any woman as a prostitute, *****, or "ho" even if she were. I would never make a derogatory remark about any woman's career or lack of career, or decision to choose career over family or family over career. Furthermore, none of the men who are my friends and associates would ever do so.

You seem to have a good handle on things and you certainly know how turn a phrase - and turn a few heads, too :>]

I know one thing - Though they won't admit it, many men are afraid of a woman with intelligence. Add beauty to that mix and like a deer in the headlights, they don't know which way to go! (see your video)!<br />
Also, some men feel the need to pull women down to their level, or lower as they are cowed by an intelligent, self willed, free thinking woman! I guess the difference between man and women really is in their jeans! :>]<br />
I was taught by my mother at an early age to love and respect all people, especially women(Thank, Mom!). She was a woman who was far ahead of her times, and I will always be thankful for the love, care and values that she gave me.<br />
One last point. Cyber relationships are so impersonal, that most people feel free to act like they never would in person. I guess it's a sign of the times!

Very well put. I just wish so much that there were more men out there who could hold their own without having to knock someone down a notch or two in order to do it. Being on equal terms with the opposite sex does not require one "proving" their superiority (or attempting to appear non-threatening in the case of many women) to the other. It should stem from mutual respect on an "as-is" basis. The strengths of one should compliment the flaws of the other and in doing so, they will mutually lift one another -up- into a better self than they may have otherwise been. Instead, it's a bit "dog-eat-dog" out there today and frankly, cannibalism never really was something I wished to aspire to in life.

Intelligently, do you think the guy who provoked this story saw himself as a potential boyfriend to you?

Yes. I think he did. He doesn't anymore obviously but before I began seeing someone, I think he was hoping that our friendship would become more than that.

For once..i agree with you lol. <br />
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Alot of these men today aren't really men in my opinion, they are still children at heart. furthermore, i blame such things as the media and the emphais that our culture today places on beauty as well as looking and acting a specific way. i think in this day and age, we get taught to devalue women, see them as less than us and only there for our pleasure. i think the reaction they have to you is because they view you as being more of a challenge or something that they would like to break down, simply because. <br />
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i once watched a documentry about how the music industry and music videos are teaching young men and kids to devalue women, it was very good, as they showed how women were presented in these videos to men, as being just a body and dependant on men and only wanting sex and being completely fine with having sex with other women for men. it also showed how women in the music industry had to become "sexual" to get their career going..and then it showed how this had badly affected the world..like at this parade when women were taking their tops off, one woman refused and pretty much all the men there ******** her for her.<br />
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i think its a problem with how men and women are being taught today by our culture. i try to be different than that. i learned from puberty, when i was 14 i hit puberty and switched on to women in a big way. i wasn't able to control it. when i realise how i was upsetting girls with this and furthrmore hurting myself, i was able to move away from that..i dont think some men have been able to do that.<br />
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i think the idea of the "gentleman" is dead or at least dying. but i try to be like one..

Not dead, but yes.. definitely dwindling in strength. And it's SO good to actually agree with you on something! ;)

i've never heard someone be called a hooker before or heard "hey hooker" that is really tame to what i ussually hear which is like "Hey ****, Hey *****."

That's exactly what it is but thanks to rap music becoming a part of the social fabric in America, I'm afraid there a lot of people (at least around here) that call women that in a joking, almost endearing manner. Google it. I'm sure you'll find it somewhere on UrbanDictionary.com.

Treat others as you would want them to treat you. (Love your neighbor as thyself)<br />
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. <br />
Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. <br />
And No, I dont mean its okay if they say anally racy/racial remarks calling me a WOP(Italians without papers in the country are called With Out Papers=WOP), so its okay to call you a wetback and demean you. (shaking head).<br />
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Philippians 2 :1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, <br />
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. <br />
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. <br />
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. <br />
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. <br />
Ephesians 5 :1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; <br />
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. <br />
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; <br />
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. <br />
5 For this ye know * , that no * * whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. <br />
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. <br />
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. <br />
Clossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. <br />
Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and NOTHING shall offend them. <br />
I Love You Sister and I pray that this individual be touched of God, that He may no longer justify this corrupt communication and foolish jesting, I pray to you Father, that He may no longer do this to your beloved (Intelligently), or any other person that they may not afflict or oppress anyone, If this person doesnt know them, I pray for this individual that They may recieve the Gospel and if you have chosen them from before the foundation of the world save them for your glory, honor and praise I thank you for hearing my prayer, give my beloved sister peace to withstand and forbear their evil acts against her and sympathize that they are poor in spirit and word, and that she may pray for those that unlovingly offend her, that it may bring you and you alone glory, honor, praise, thanksgiving and eternal blessings over and over in eternity and into infinity without end In the Mighty name of Jesus I than Thee Amen and Amen

I 100% agree With u. Gentlemen put urselves in our shoes. How would u feel? Women don't accept bs from no one not even ur husband if it's necessary. Have some self-respect. Gentlemen how would u feel if someone runs those type of "jokes" with ur daughter or mom?

Amen. I have absolutely nothing more to add to this comment. :)

The Christian men I know don't talk about sex with me. I find your experiences puzzling, because it's very well accepted that (in contrast to teenagers) among grownups men talk about sex with each other a lot less than women do. (There is actually a great need for married men to talk MORE about sex with each other and share pointers, because most of them are flying blind in the bedroom, and the consequences of not doing well there are drastic.) I think what is going on here is there are some women who respond well to sexual innuendo--you can observe that daily on EP. And some men must be foolishly generalizing that to all women. But professional attraction teachers do not encourage men to bring up sex swiftly before they have reason to think it would be welcome.<br />
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I have never heard of "Hey, hooker," lol.<br />
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I regret that you created a group that is bound to attract indignant feminists. Even though there is vastly more ex<x>pression of disrespect for men than for women on this site.

Well firstly, I made this group non gender-specific on purpose for just such a reason as your last paragraph points out. You yourself comment regularly on EP about the feminists that demean and degrade the male gender and what I'm writing about in this story is nothing more than the female's perspective of similar male behavior. I'm anything but a feminist and in fact, I blame feminism quite a bit for this problem I'm writing about because once women want to be treated as men, guess what.. they get treated worse in the end and all women suffer for it. That said, my experience may seem puzzling to you, but go to any attractive female you know and ask her about the things I've detailed in this story. I promise you, more often than not (if not every single time) you'll find that she's had to learn to deal with exactly the same stuff and usually from non-Christian men but often enough, even from professing Christians. As to married men discussing sex, clearly, I'm not being hit on or privately hanging out with that variety. The men I'm referring to are around my own age range (or slightly younger because I definitely get a lot of younger men doing this stuff than older ones). Regardless of who's doing it though, it's wrong and as you know, I rarely just drop a rant of this magnitude on EP so rest assured, this has been a long time coming.

We all our entitled to respected and to respect others but if it is reciprocated as it is written as much as it lieth in you, live peaceably amongst all men. This means enough is eough I cant stand's nomore this must be said in a public rebuke Mt 18:15-17

My heart really bleeds for Serena Williams and Maria Sharapova. What poor unfortunate souls!

LOL!! Oh Wow... nice play, Sir!

Oh gosh, I hope I didn't read that incorrectly, CC - my deepest apologies if I did.

2 More Responses

It's not too much to ask for, but obviously for some people it is. I personally have never understood that kind of behavior, and while I have my own faults I'm thankful that this isn't one of them. If you have to use degrading terms it's obvious that you don't care about the person your with. In my opinion it all boils down to being selfish and wanting to have your way, or it could also be caused by insecurities, but I could care less about the reason as I can't stand the behavior in the first place.

It's so comforting to know that men like you exist and I believe what you're saying here because even from our interaction here on EP, I can't imagine you making statements like the ones I've detailed in this story. A large part of that probably has everything to do with your devotion to the Lord, hence why I have absolutely no desire to date any man whose first love is anything or anyone but God alone.