Surprised

I saw the group of women who wish to obey their husbands and I was taken aback.  It's certainly well within their rights to be however they wish.  But in reading their stories they say things like "I never know which decision to make so my husband does it for me and he always makes the right decision"  And of course citing biblical scripture that says women are here to serve their husbands.  Which is a very strict, fundamentalist viewpoint.  I don't think Jesus intended for women to not think for themselves and to submit to their husbands.
ReformedAutomaton ReformedAutomaton
41-45, M
87 Responses Jul 11, 2007

LOL, thanks grendelen, I really struggled with this whole thread but I think reason finally won out.

Wow. This whole thread is a horrifying example of people pretending to propose a logical line of reasoning, when all they're actually doing is spewing methane. <br />
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What ReformedAutomaton originally stated was based on a straightforward interpretation of standard English. Several people seem to think that there is some kind of wiggle room in there.... that "obey" means something other than OBEY. Can we calm down and get real here? If you want to try and make a logical argument, for or against something, the rules aren't hard to find. They haven't changed for several thousand years (Aristotle?). Of course, either has the chemical composition of bullshit, I mean, methane.<br />
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EDIT: I removed names, 'cuz I don't want to be a jerk.

LOL, thanks Absab...you are the 100th comment on this story.....ding ding ding!!! *balloons drop*<br />
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I do agree that men and women play their own roles and sometimes one person makes more decisions than the other. If you are both comfortable in your roles, then I see nothing wrong at all. My problem comes with the assumption (passed down through so many generations of bigots) that the man is to be dominant and should be the one to make all the decisions. This whole story was based on a group of women who wrote stories about how they love to submit to their husbands cause god tells them so. I think those women should get to know god a little better and stop believing every word they read in the bible literally.

Hmmmm... wide variety of thoughts here! When I got married (a lifetime ago) I refused to promise to obey. Strange thing is even though he agreed I didn't need to say it, he actually expected me to live it! Tried hard to work around this without actually complying for many years and finally ran for my life. Some years later I am totally absolutely completely in love with a man who has previously been emotionally dominated by the women in his life and who has such a profound respect for women that he, I suspect, didn't even realize it! This is not necessarily a bad thing. He was a metrosexual before there was even such a word. Sometimes he is such a girl! He cooks and cleans and likes to look nice and smell good. He is also every bit a boy. He loves his car and working on it. He dresses like a dag and gets dirty in the yard. He is intensely masculine - actually dare I say it - macho. Aaarrrggghhh!!! Now here's the twist - I, a die-hard feminist, would submit to this man's every wish. It's not the first flush of love talking because it's almost 5 years now. It is a deep and powerful desire to be - not dominated - but I don't know - just allowing and enjoying him being 'the man' in our relationship. Mind you, that's probably easy for me to say because we don't live together so our lives are seperate and independent! Oh Lord, maybe I'm just having an extended Mills and Boons moment!

So does "obey completely" mean that a command to jump off of 20 stories or to have sex with him after he has been with an HIV positive person?<br />
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R

I have never OBEYED my husband. Marriage should be a two person thing. I have friends who have taken the obey thingy out of their vows.

I don't know Radiant...not sure if I know what you mean exactly

What is in the word "completely"?<br />
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Any commands against safety or nature?<br />
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R

Wow this is officially my most commented on story by far. It had such simple beginnings. Never thought is would grow into a monster LOL...thanks for the dose of reality kittyreporter :-)

"A lot of men don't handle responsiblities very well." Certainly agree there. But the very idea that "woman was made from man" shows you that the bible was written BY men to serve the interests OF men and the doctrine contained there-in is the ENEMY of women - indeed, women are demonized throughout the bible.

Sadly it took a century for those words to be applied to people of every color. Still, as you point out, the words are there in black and white and it is our government's job to make good on them. (Fat chance of that happening in my lifetime!)

Point well taken El. I believe there is a phrase that our founding fathers used, "unalienable rights".<br />
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UNALIENABLE-incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another; "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" <br />
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Granted, our country has applied this principal selectively and sporadicly, but it should be a given for all.

LOL....thank you El Lagarto for bringing some sanity to this thread. I don't know how on earth my original story about how I think women should think for themselves has been turned into me being against women's rights. Mind boggling is the correct term for sure. I challenge anyone who has posted here to find a quote from me that says I want to take womens rights to choose away. It's simply not possible.

This thread is mind-boggling. While we're at it, let's make sure that blacks have the right to return to plantations if they want.

I am not arguing that it is not a womans right to choose....I would never argue that. I simply wrote this story b/c I think women should choose for themselves. I'm not trying to be some dictator controlling things. I'M JUST STATING AN OPINION AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO.

Hey there, you are putting quotes around something that I didn't say so don't misquote me just to further your own ignorant argument.

Good....cause I hate accounting!!!<br />
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Now...mess with me on my choices on decorations/wall paint etc...gonna kick your cute butt...LOL

Jeep Driver....I have a problem anytime anyone doesn't wish to think for themselves. Women have been persecuted, not given the right to vote, payed less, and held to lower standards, for many centuries. Some women even start to believe they are deserving of such treatment and are inferior. <br />
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Fortunately there have been some great people who are truly about freedom who have fought to achieve equal rights for women. It is a struggle still going today and women that want their husbands to boss them around help to keep the problem current. <br />
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That's the problem I have. These women who wish to obey their husbands certainly have the right to believe as they do but I have the same right to differ with that belief.

oh your a funny one....who ya talkin about...me or nakedanimals?<br />
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LMAO

ooops...guess i shouldnt have snuck those into last nights lasagna!!<br />
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haha...J/k Dear

ahhhh...so the theory doenst distrub you....its how SOME protray it or say they live it.<br />
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Ok....then ill conceed. <br />
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I just felt everyone kept jumping on the concept of obeying as being wrong. If its done properly...it isnt.<br />
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Anything...even good things....when twisted or misconstrewd....can turn bad.

Lexus you have been heard and heard again on this story. I just think you are trying to "have your cake and eat it too." Definitions aside, the reason I first wrote this story is that I read these stories about women who wished to always obey their husbands. In their stories they would say things like "my husbands always makes the right decision so I don't have to", or "that's the way god wants it so my husband is always right."<br />
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These comments were outrageous to me. These women really did want to obey their husbands. And I disagreed with that. I haven't disagreed with your viewpoint. Your viewpoint doesn't seem outrageous to me. That's why I kept saying "stay on topic" cause I felt you weren't really talking about obeying your husband.

WittyOne<br />
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You said “but in response to Lexus...there is a huge difference(at least in my mind) between "obey" and “honor" or "respect". In fact if one truly respects another they won't be expressing something that needs to be obeyed, they will seek agreement or enter into a discussion.”<br />
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Your 100% right. What I apparently am doing a terrible job of getting across is that the word obey in websters and the word obey in practice is where the confusion lies. <br />
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In practice a husband living this correctly would never be “ordering” around. There are discussions…the wife’s opinion does matter to him. Why, because his job is to love her as Christ loved his church. Christ wanted only good, would never wish to harm or leave unprotected. <br />
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Living this does not in any way remove my feelings and opinions from the relationship equation. If anything, Id say it makes them matter more!!!!!<br />
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In the end though. I think the reason I have continued to keep coming back to this story to again plead my opinion. Is that in this thread….I’ve never felt “less heard”. My opinion didn’t seem to matter here. My opinion called “idiotic or odd”. <br />
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I find it odd that a group chastising people for how they feel, is claiming their way is better…<br />
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I don’t get that from the man in my life….I get an open mind and heart. I am heard<br />
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p.s. agree totally with your point on expectations by the way.

Thanks wittyone. You are more than witty, you are brilliant. I couldn't agree more about what a mental trap expectations are. That is something I've only discovered in the last few years. I'm working on having less or no expectations of people and life in general. It is only cause for heartache and pain.

I tried to scan all the stories but I may have missed some concepts, but in response to Lexus...there is a huge difference(at least in my mind) between "obey" and "honor" or "respect". In fact if one truly respects another they won't be expressing something that needs to be obeyed, they will seek agreement or enter into a discussion.<br />
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One of the comments uses the word "expect" many times. I think the death of many relationships stems from expectations. We want our partner to behave in a certain way, or take a particular action and we turn this in to "expectation" that they will fulfill this want, when they don't do or say what was expected, we feel disappointed, even angry. The greatest source of unhappiness, are expectations.<br />
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To live your life without expectation, without the need for specific results, that is freedom!<br />
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Whenever I feel a sense of disappointment towards anyone I love, I try to stop and ask myself; Is it because of a result I was expecting, or is it because of a promise made but not kept?

Sure thing....maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but I found reading those stories to be interesting. I also noticed that some of the stories have been deleted or revised since I first saw that group.

Lord I am glad I read your story first, and after reading the comments that I suppose are on some of the women's stories I (yes a female that makes her own decisions lol) will not lose my BRAINS and even read ONE of their stories. The entire idea just makes me want to VOMIT. Thanks for the heads up!!

cute chovhani...LOL<br />
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totally two different subjects I assure you....one is play...one is real life..{wink}

Vanilla, I also apreciate this all started by a mans statement. It seems just to simple in my mind Respect and 50% relationship. This can never be won by either sides, Different strokes for different folks has always been and will remain. I had to protect my husband from a vicious mouse once, 50/50...8-}

Well now, there's another angle Lexus. Women who enjoy being dominated for other reasons. I hadn't even thought of that! So, NOW I'm wondering how many of these Christian Fundies are actually just......that way!

I'm back....run everyone run.....LOL<br />
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Here is the thing...that might be your understanding of the word obey in this context.<br />
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I would think it would matter what the person saying it means...<br />
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Doesnt seem so though....it doesnt seem to matter what that word truly means in application...its seems to matter only what you think it does.<br />
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Oh well no worries...I obey but am not ordered...I submit but am not dominated....<br />
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Im happy...good for me...:)

If you obey someone you are at their command...that is what it means...people obey their dictators.

Thank you vanilla, I agree that it is difficult to tell what the original intention of the bible was..it's had so many revisions and people with their own agendas altering it.

Even in an abusive relationship i would make myself heard,got banished from the bedroom ooh like that hurts. It's supposed to be a partnership not dictatorship.

NA...i have to get moving and get to the office. I again offer I am not off topic.<br />
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Its about what you understand the word obey to mean...and those like myself believe the word to actually mean....<br />
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Our debate is in the defintion of the word obey....completely and totally the topic at hand.<br />
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ttfn....(smiles)

Okay Lexus then you are off topic...I wonder about women who wish to obey their husband...I never was concerned about women who wish for protection from a spouse.

see...there you go...stuck on the words again.<br />
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He doesnt order me around. But he is the leader of our relationship. He doesnt dominate over me...he protects me.<br />
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That is how.

I just haven't seen how you claim to obey or submit to your husband or significant other which was the topic here.

very true...but in my mind our ability to present varied opinion are a good thing. <br />
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Sometimes I even learn something....:)

As things generally do when many varied oppinions are brought forward.

well said grams!<br />
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I so think this thing has gotten so out of handly misunderstood.

I think there is a scripture in the Bible where God tells Abraham to listen to his wife Sarah, to take her servant hand maiden as a serigate to bear him a son. and he did. It seems an easy principal to treat each other with the same respect as you would want to be treated with. Partnership is and equal 50% once in awhile there may have to be 55% to one but never always. Marraige is a partnership, the two talents combined makes for a more effective and rewarding life. My husband was a man who always gave me credit for my contributions, whether it was plastering dry wall or baking the cakes. I think it takes a man who is secure with himself that will allow their women to be an equal in all asspects of there relationship. My husband is no longer whith me and I can't tell you how many times I have said, " Jerry, I wish you could make this dicission for me" But on the other hand I would not be doing so well if he was not the man he was to allow me to be strong and independent thinking. (Allow) dislike that word in this content. I am Woman hear me Roar...Helen Redding 8-}

oh why cant i stop....I've been told that i get ahold of something and beat it to death....guess im proving that true.<br />
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Personal testimonials or not...its a pretty good example now that i think about it of a couple who believes in this concept (your subject matter)...and i sure as hell dont feel controled.<br />
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NA, is it possible that you can acecpt that "obeying your husband completely" might not mean to the people who are saying it (me) what you thought it meant?<br />
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Is it possible that some of the things said in the other group gave you a wrong impression?...<br />
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I'm sorry if I am unfairly viewing this...but it sure is looking to me like unless someone agrees with you...they should not comment on your story.

all I said was stay on topic...Jeep driver is giving personal testimonials that are not of interest to me.

NA...guess we are gonna just have to agree to disagree here....I think my comments went directly to the subject at hand. My comments were directed at attempting to right a misunderstanding of what those words mean.<br />
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I would hope that I have the right to comment on a story that I feel is attacking my beliefs...calling me an idot....I'd think I could have the opportunity to defend myself....and stand up for my feelings.<br />
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I give up though...truce....

Well I didn't ever say anything about Lexus personally. I just want dicussion here about the topic at hand, which is "differing with obeying husband completely"

JD, your the sweetest man i have ever known......Thank YOU!

LOL....thanks babe....

ahhh....ok...<br />
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that i can understand. What I think you are trying to say is that you feel "some" use that concept as an excuse to not think for themselves.<br />
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That might be true...who knows<br />
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I got on edge because I believe in the concept and I'm not idiot....might be a tad odd.....but thats a whole other subject.....tee hee hee

ok, thanks...sorry I'm on edge a little today. I have a problem with women not wanting to think for themselves and desiring to just let someone else think for them. And having a man that is a control freak that wants that. It seems like a sick relationship to me. I'm not saying your idea is sick, just that the whole idea of a person not thinking for themselves is undesirable.

NA...i asked because in the post just before you had told me to go away.<br />
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I was merely trying to respect the fact that it was your story. Had nothing to do with you being my boss....just respectful behavior toward a fellow EP friend.

Thank you NA....:)<br />
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What i have been trying to say is that for years and years that word..actually both of them "obey and submit" ....well my reaction was "when hell freezes over"<br />
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Im learning those words dont mean what I thought they did.<br />
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If you look back throuh my comments in this story. What I was attempting to do by "changing" the words was help people to understand thier true meaning. Rather than staying hung up on the actual word...<br />
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NA...as with anything...some in my opinion are a bit over the top with it...but isnt that thy way with just about everything?<br />
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The concept is a good one...if one takes the time to really understand it....it makes a whole lot of sense.

Please don't ask if you are allowed though, that's not how I am...you don't need my permission

Sure I'd like to hear what you have to say :-)

NA...I personally am one of the women you are talking about...I have a story in that group. Am I allowed to explain what I mean....or is that something your not interested in?

may i speak?

All I'm saying is that you have altered what I was originally talking about. I'm not talking about how to have a solid relationship here. I'm talking about these women in a group called "I must obey husband completely". You have started a new subject.

oh my goodness....so let me get this striaght...what you are saying is that what your mad about is that the word obey is used in the other group....an explaination of what that word ACTUALLY means...you are not interested in.<br />
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Judgement...and not willing to even hear out the people who used the word....dont care what they mean or are trying to say.<br />
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Just want to judge them...<br />
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WOW...thats nice<br />
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But ill go away...it was nice talking with you all....:)

You people have lost the point entirely. Sure you could replace the word obey with honor but the group that I originally posted about said OBEY, not honor. Ya'll should go post somewhere else cause this is the "I differ with the I must OBEY my husband group". You have started a new subject.

Its kinda sad how words can muddy stuff. Language is tricky. <br />
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I could be attacked....for changing the words...but...idea is to try to cause thought...<br />
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The word obey scares women...still does for me. I dont need another Dad...have one...hes awesome...hehe<br />
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Think honor and cherish...if you can do that....i truly believe the whole thing will make a whole lot more sense.

noo I dissagree...replace the word obey with honor.<br />
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Thats the message...despite the word. Dont let the language used cause you to miss the message.

Fair enough, I think we are talking about different things though...submission is different than just checking with the spouse before making a decision. <br />
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It is a statement of dominance and a belief in superiority. These women were not talking about a two-way-street decision making process. It was about "obeying husband completely" as the group is called.

lets replace the words obey and submit....lets make them honor and cherish...<br />
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that to me is what the whole deal is....think everyone is getting hung up on language and missing the message...<br />
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JMO...what do i know....<br />
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LOL...hey...at least i can rhyme

I had a look, left comments.<br />
Is there a 'I Must Obey My wife' group?

ok...I went and did a little reading. Some of the comments were in my humble opinion a tad over the top. I will give you that one NA.<br />
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Thing is....most werent at all. I do agree with the spirit of the commmand. Just not necessairly with how some interprit it. <br />
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If JD even thought for a second he was gonna run my life....well...hahaha....those of you that know me know how that would go over.<br />
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I trust him though...I trust that will not be the situation...it isnt today...nor will it ever be.

oh Zen...you crack me up dude!.....LMAO

And since when is having an opinion that is different from others something ugly? That goes along with the whole submission thing. I do believe this site is great for helping other people and I do not go and post on these womens stories for that reason. But I will write my own stories and will not censor myself. I think all people should speak their minds, not live in fear of others judgements, and say what they think is right. That should be the right of all women and men.

guess i need to go read NA....something is arry here if that is what you are "hearing" in those stories.<br />
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Serious question. I have one posted in that group. You can be honest...did you get that impression from what I personally wrote?

sorry nk...cant imagine why you would be attacked...you are a very nice guy.<br />
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I think its the words people are getting hung up on..."submit and obey"...like getting married means moving from one parent figure to the other...<br />
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It just isnt...

I started this group based on my experience that I think women should want to make their own decisions and have faith in themselves outside of any relationship to a man. I would want this for my child so I would want this for all people. I do respect the rights of those women to submit to their husbands, but the stories I read from the group really turned my stomach. These women talked about never making any decision without the husband and one woman said that the husband NEVER made a wrong decision which really got to me. ALL people make mistakes, including husbands. To assign some level of perfection to them is to be false and live under false pretenses. That your own judgement is flawed and should never be used. I think that is sick and I will say so on this site or anywhere else.

The group is called "I Believe In Obeying Husband Completely"

or here is the link..you can copy/ paste<br />
http://www.experienceproject.com/group_profile.php?g=592

smebro....look in my experiences...i have it {wink}

Hey NakedAnimals! Where is that group? I cannot find it and there are about 117 groups with the word Husband

this is a discussion....I do think i understand the opposing view...and truthfully...i dont have the whole thing figured out myself.<br />
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Im just trying to say I think it is a very misunderstood subject. <br />
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JD and I have discussed it...ive discussed it with a friend who is very much on board with that plan in her life. She is beginning to help me make sense of it

Im not trying to say Im right and your wrong or come to a 'conclusion', just stating my opinion.....I think both sides are true.

okay peeps...from one who has spent her entire life saying "when hell freezes over"<br />
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Im rethinking that. Assure you it is NOT about my inability to make my own decisions....hell just ask JD if you dont believe me...haha Most of you in this comments list have seen me even in the short time here make my opinion quite known...LOL<br />
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Submitting is being misunderstood in my opinion. and grant you...i cant say that I do it...but I do understand a little better what it means.<br />
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I believe its more about trusting...than submitting. His job is to protect you and care for you...if that is done properly...seriously doubt any woman would feel they didnt have a say in thier world.<br />
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Does my opinion matter...well golly it had better. Does he need to compromise with me at times...heck yes. If done right...its way more of a partnership than you would think.<br />
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just me...but i tend to think many who say they submit and obey...dont mean it they way it sounds...

Well I would suggest to all of you to go look at the stories in the "I must obey my husband" group before you come to any more conclusions about the motivations and causes of these womens behavior.

Yes, you are right, AH...the bible is pro everything and anti everything. Not a good tool for those who can't dicipher it properly...

'Some' makes you both right.

'I'm gonna tell you from a female point of view why some women are submissive & obedient. It's just because they are lazy & cowardly & like to have a reason to feel sorry for themselves.' WOW.....I dont agree with that comment at all! Have you ever taken into consideration that some women may have been abused all their lives and thats all they know? Ive seen it first hand, and I have talked to them till Im blue in the face and it doesnt do any good, why? Thats what they believe is a good relationship. It doesnt make it eacceptable but unfortunatley it happens.

good to hear it Elle, sounds like a balanced relationship

Wow it must be difficult to deal with your sister. Thanks for your comments, I agree that it is mostly weakness and convenience that allows women to be submissive like that. There are men too that are submissive and allow the woman to walk all over them...they are powerless.

I've seen it. They are an odd group. Sometimes I type in crazy things to search and come up with some equally weird topics. It can be quite entertaining.

Apparently God said he wants women to live under an iron fist, at least according to the "I Believe In Obeying Husband Completely" group on this site. Check them out!!

Who ever said husbands wanted their wives to live under an iron fist. The amount of women who have no mind of their own is unbelievable. To be honest I'll argue with any woman I date intentionally being a pain in the *** and completely wrong in the hope they will argue with me. Men (and women) need someone to tell them when they are wrong, it makes a relationship stronger better and certainly smarter.

you are CORRECT, siddler - that was not at all the intention and if these idiots would read the Bible for themselves they'd realize what it truly said. i spose i could make it easy, throwing pearls to swine, and tell all right here and now but ... unless one learns for themself what it truly means ... it makes no difference.