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I Believe Domestic Discipline Can Be Abusive

I do believe that domestic discipline can be healthy. I have corresponded with TIH wives who are also in DD relationships and I do believe that many of these women are happy and content within their marriages. They have entered into DD as consensual partners and many have loving husbands who truly cherish these women and do not wish to harm them. These women as I have come to understand are intelligent and strong women who wish to be held accountable for their actions. There is nothing at all wrong with this, in fact I find it quite honourable. I am not a TIH wife and I am not in a DD relationship and this is my choice, just as this is their choice.

I have recently come across some stories from DD wives that I find heartbreaking and that I do feel are abusive. These women talk of being "spanked" with implements other than a bare hand. They speak of beatings with hairbrushes and clothes hangers! I am appalled, I am horrified and I can no longer in good conscience remain quiet. I do believe these women are being abused and I do know that what their husbands are doing is illegal and would be considered assault under the law. A human male is much larger and stronger than a human female. What is wrong with just spanking with his hands? Why must he use an implement? How can these wives respect such a man???? A man should NEVER, EVER lay his hands on a woman! Spanking with his hands ( with her consent) is one thing but the use of an implement like a hairbrush, strap or clothes hanger is quite horrifying. Would anyone be ok with a child being disciplined with such an implement???
I have to speak up and I encourage other to as well. Some of these women appear brain washed to me ( my opinion), and seem to have relegated their good judgement at the door and appear to defer to brash, bullish and mean husbands who could not care for these women. My own husband bless his heart was as horrified as I when I told him of this. Most men would not condone this, society does not condone this and we all should speak out about this abuse that is being carried out under the guise of "loving authority". These females seem to live in a sort of bubble, well I am about to burst your bubble and offer you some perspective ladies, this is not okay. If you believe all men to be worthy of honour and respect well, Ive got some real estate to sell you.
gumshoejane2 gumshoejane2 36-40, F 43 Responses Nov 23, 2011

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I don't agree with these relationships but I do love when the woman is in charge!

Women who allow themselves to be brainwashed, beaten daily and severely, and have every aspect of their lives controlled are NOT in a DD relationship. That title is being used as a mask to cover up a screwed up marriage. I take offense to people who know nothing about his lifestyle nor who have researched and learned about a true DD marriage labeling themselves a DD. These women need counseling and help to break from abuse. DD is NOT abusive in any way, shape, or form.

Very touching indeed....I am married into an ole fashion traditional spanking family , my wife of 10 years is Asian and her side of the family is very traditional into spanking (hand paddle and yes a bamboo cane stick) I myself was adopted at a very young age my adopted mom was Italian and Asian and very much believed in spanking yes on the bare bum always and by the hand or paddle. Today me and my wife are into spanking yes I spank my wife in pirate by my hand or if she wants or ask for an implement ( paddle or stick) I only do it or her bare bum . I too am spanked as you can see in my pics I have posted . . We also spank our children , when needed . Spanking is one thing and u have made it very clear in my other post we are not into bondage whips chains or SM ......

Why is it okay for a woman to consent to his hand and not to other implements? Why do you consider women "brainwashed" because they want a lifestyle that you do not? Why should anything that is consensual between a husband and wife (or even two adults) be illegal if it causes no harm to others?

I believe, justcurious, that gumshoe asked a question. Even though she also answered it, she is not against the IDEA of loving domestic discipline, but is concerned that some (we don't know how great a percentage) men will use their authority for evil. After all, it is patently NOT true that men are naturally dominant. Some are; some aren't. A man who is not a natural dominant is very likely to be a bully when given no supervision.

Some men who are not natural dominants also enjoy being caned themselves and have no need to bully. The truth is the feeling of raised weals on a smarting backside can be very arousing and sexually erotic and between consenting couples and perfectly acceptable.

I agree with that! But seriously, some of these stories of LDD or CDD sound like the wiman has NO focus except pleasing or displeasing the man. And, it actually has nothing all to do with the BIBLE!

I just have to commend you on this writing. I know you have an opposing viewpoint, yet you have taken the time to see things from the other perspective. Granted some of your views are due to a misunderstanding of not having personal preference or experience, all of your points are valid questions to be considered.

Jane, Have been reading all these posts and wanted to offer thoughts on what works for my wife and I. She had been thru a lot before we met, including sexual abuse as a child and a psycho ex-husband. We discovered she can only enjoy sex if she has the power and the control, as well as the choice of denial. So at times I am on the receiving end of DD...it works for us

That is very interesting, Plug. I've heard that the opposite can be true as well. I mean that some persons have experienced sexual and/or emotional healing my being with a patient, trained Dominant. This seemingly can be either a lover or a 'Service Dom'.
Of course this would be done with the rule 'safe, sane, and consensual', not willy-nilly .

Jane... I would do ya...:)

Haha Templeton you naughty guy!

Kiss kiss.

Maybe I was a little prejudiced. Beat urselves all u like but leave ur children out of your kinky stuff. Assault is wrong.

Oh it's definitely not for children.

These guys are beating their kids too. The women are just big kids to them and they feel ownership for anything in their grasp. Yech. Often enough they are underemployed since anybody who works hard does not have time or energy to dominate their surroundings with that zeal. My wife never was spanked as a child and I can tell she craves it but I am way too old and tired to beat her. Maybe she can find an abusive bf on the side. ;)

Idiot

I really dislike the misuse of the word "idiot". Idiot is an older term refering to an autistic person. A more correct term for me would be "sarcastic *******."

I do beelieve that that definition fits... your myoptic view and your attatude of apathy is epic in scale.

Sorry your wrong but I guess your entitled to misuse terms as u see fit.

It is beter to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.....just sayin.

Its better to use spellchecker. I am really sick of this ******* match. If it helps u win my pee pee is only 5.5"

Whatever... you should have knoledge of a subject before acting like you do.

Yea. People disagree with u because we lack knowledge. Your a ******* bully and if any woman goes with u she either needs counseling or is gonna get what she deserves. Violence is against christ and u can just keep going with ur stupid spew.

Being cherished PROPERTY is way better than being a ignored "EQUAL " & if you are to LAZY to give her the constant atention that every one desires then SHE PROBLY WILL FIND AN ABUSIVE BF..... TO MAKE HER FEAL DESIRED...

Templeton my friend,
I have to disagree with you here. I of course only speak for myself but I would hate to be anyone's property or possession and constant attention is absolutely suffocating to me. I do find I like my space in relationships. I'm quite independent and self sufficient though.
My point here is that everyone is different. Perhaps there are women who need constant attention and that is ok, but I'm telling you that there are plenty of us who are quite content being equals.

I just wish my wife would get out of the house and do something. Her having an affair would be preferrable to candy crush every waking moment.

And don't mind being alone, and not having attention thrown at us in one way or another all the time.

I dont beat my wife but I got no equal. Anyway my wife could kick anyones *** in the room....and I dont mean chat room.

One other thing, shes 23, 4'9" and a jujitsu expert. Everyone wants my wife im not gonna keep her in a box and if she leaves me for you then I will pocket the savings and find a younger one.

Does she practus martial arts?

Not lately but she is a puerto rican gang girl with university of the America's training. All she seems to practice now is candy crush.

similac, I know that there is a patriarch movement out there. It is in some allegedly Christian churches. But what the numbers are, who knows?

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domestic discipline is a choice, and should be a 50/50 relationship. What implements are used is immaterial - what is key is that both understand their roles and what they want from each other. Discipline, not just the act, but the complete process of holding, praising and so on, is a form of comfort and cleansing - and some also use it as a prelude to sexuality, as that is also a form of communication. The key is - I know woman who fell closer to their husbands because he uses a belt and tells her he loves her, than a woman whose husband doesn't respect her and sits in front of the TV and ignores her.

And it is a way to LEVEL THE SCALES ...we all have in the back of our heads.

Well said - for those who CHOOSE this lifestyle, what Jane doesn't get, is that the choice to be in this lifestyle is consensual, and if you consensually say - if I have done wrong, there should be consequences - then once the dominant decides the consequences, she is no longer in a 50/50 process. Her consent meant she turned over discipline to him - or vice versa (some homes the female is dominant). so, this works for many - and should not be in all aspects of the world. She will know if she is out, and he looks at her, that she crossed the line and will be disciplined later.

When used in this way, I'm sure it is a good system (but not for all couples). But I've read some stories where a woman was not allowed to put lidocaine on her bum, was chastised (beaten) for the same fault for days, beaten for being a few minutes late from work. The problem, as I see it, is there is definitely the possibility of a woman "loving" her husband due to Stockholm Syndrome". This in no way is meant to suggest that the opposite relationship - in which a woman ridicues her husband, refuses to pull her weight & treats as nothing but a pay check and a baby sitter-is any better.

I guess it was kind of thinking of ONE marriage in particular! Thank GOD she finally abandoned him; as a devout Christian, he could only divorce because of abandonment or adultery.

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Oh no. I am agreeing with Gumshoe again. As you stated in the title and the first lines of your story, DD can be abusive and it can be healthy. I think a good strong and confident man knows the difference and the relationship is healthy. I think a meek or beaten down man is more prone to be abusive by either seeking a revenge or has an inferiority complex or some hatred for women. I am the strong and confident type.

Hard to believe 5 people like that I agree with Gumshoe.

I think DD relationships can be exciting, but I am a little annoyed at stories that discuss how she was whipped for using grape jam in leiu of strawberry preserves. If hubby wants to whip, he doesn't need some stupid excuse like jelly. I finally found the words!

" I am a little annoyed at stories that discuss how she was whipped for using grape jam in leiu of strawberry preserves. " - LOLOL

Lol. Im glad I'm not alone.

Why do most folks associate a DD relationship as a male-led relationship. Speaking for male subs living in a female-led relationship, we get whipped too until our ***** look like strawberry preserves.

Lol. She must be nice to not get you to raspberry and grape.

My *** gets to look like raspberries when she uses the cane, an implement we used to use only for discipline, but not it is used regularly and other implements are used for punishment. Deep purple bruises, like grape, occur after using the heavy wood paddle.

@Vegas - I completely agree on that. I know several Dommes and they could never be submissive!

Funny... I have never had trouble getting dommes to knell...and smile.

VC you are a total freak. I love it!!

Call me whatever you like. I am a submissive male living in a 24/7, D/s, DD relationship and I love it. I know several other DD relationships, either male-led or female-led that are happy healthy relationships. I would wager the percentage of happy healthy DD relationships out weigh the percentage of marriages.

I didn't see that, but it sounds like an unimaginatively random excuse for a whipping - LOL.

How do you whip someone w grape jely? Can I try...*GRINZ*

MOST people who write stuff like that are either a) making it up, b) using "DD" as a label for kinky bdsm play, or c) probably across the line unless she is doing things just to elicit a reaction in which case it is item b-- an excuse for kinky play.

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A a women i love pain. I need it. no one made me do it i wanted it and still to this day love it. it is not punishment infact i would think i was being punished with out it.

Lol...yes you did.

I loved every min of it wish i could have more

As far as I'm concerned, Christianity has got absolutely nothing to do with domestic discipline beyond the fact that it clearly tells wives to submit to their husbands. Yes there are some strange folk who hide behind the Bible to explain why they do what they do when surely it's better to say "I feel happier in my marriage without the power struggles and I'm happy for my husband to have control, moderately spank me when necessary and that's my choice."

I don't know why so many people get so steamed up about what we do. It's not abuse. It's wholely consensual and there are story after story about how much love, happiness and general fulfilment domestic discipline has brought to our marriages.

Yes you read stories that seem very extreme, of course you find those too. Firstly I want to point out that I understand there are some women who have spanking fantasies and some such stories are plain and simple fantasies and clearly not real spankings. I wish they were not there, they give what we do a very bad reputation.

Most of the stories involving implements are real though, that's just how it is in our marriages. To the uninitiated, I know they seem very extreme and I can see how *you* would say they are abusive. I know that if you were to be spanked bare bottom by the hand it would hurt and that would be enough as any deterant but you should understand we are experienced at this.

When I first became taken in hand, my husband only ever used his hand and that was all that was needed too. Nowdays though, a hand spanking wouldn't do much for me other than turn me on and that wouldn't be much in the line of discipline would it?? My husbands hand would give out way before my bottom felt much impact. We quickly added in a hairbrush, then a wooden butter pat, then a proper leather paddle and then a belt. Is it still abuse?

I know you're wincing at this, of course it would be way way too much for you. I can honestly say that I don't feel hard done to, rarely get a bruise but these spankings need to hurt. That's the point! We need to feel accountable for our actions. If our husbands do half hearted spankings then we feel let down. You will find stories that complain about lack of consistancy too!

I can honestly say that I have grown as a person since starting DD. I had some personal issues that I needed to address and discipline helped me do that. We have a stronger, closer marriage with better communication as a result. I know it's not for everyone but the important thing to realise is it works for us, it works for others like us. We live in a diverse world. One size doesn't fit all and that's ok.

While some relationships, like yours, clearly are consensual, I\'m fairly sure there are a few which really aren\'t. They may seem pretty much the same from the outside, but sometimes I think that the partner on the receiving end doesn\'t have as much choice in the matter as they should - and that would make the relationship abusive. But the difference is pretty subtle. How it\'s one meant to tell?

I still maintain that dd is the exact opposite of abusive. There isn't even a fine line.

We all have a choice, (in western culture where there is no pressure) we have the choice to stay or a choice to go. Even doing nothing when you are unhappy is still a choice. In TiH relationships you have to take the rough with the smooth, the control brings a strong sense of safety and protection, we want and crave that emotional fulfilment, but you cannot say \'you can have control at this moment because it suits me, but not next time\' It just cannot work like that. I\'ve seen many women decide they no longer want a full DD relationship, so they choose to leave because ultimately they do what makes them happy and that\'s what separates it from abuse.

Thanks Robbo,
As always you explain things so well.
I\'m trying my best to stay away from \"trigger\" stories so hopefully you won\'t be seeing anymore critical comments From me over there. It has come to my attention that my remarks have been hurtful and now I have hurt one of my friends .

It did seem quite an inflammatory story Jane, even I thought so and I\'m generally pretty thick skinned! I think she knows you don\'t mean to hurt us, we know your concerns are not going to disappear over night and you do have every right to talk about whatever you wish here. Maybe it might be a good idea to tone down your grievances, especially when it relates to our husbands. Wouldn\'t youfeel a bit upset if I was to give your man a bashing? It can feel personal rather than general.
Please remember if I was to write an explicit story about my husband giving me the belt you would think I was being abused but I can asure you I am not. I also think part of it is emotional catharsis, some women get disciplined and then they come on EP to vent and get the rest of how they are feeling out of their system. They write their story and then they feel better. They forget how it comes across to someone who isn\'t in a DD relationship.

I do see how hurtful that story was now. I actually felt really bad when I retread it. It wasn\'t even an honest story, my husband I think would very much appreciate me to yield at least once in awhile.
I deleted the story because it wasn\'t honest ( at least not with respect to his feelings.) I can understand how hurtful it was. I\'m deeply sorry.

Hi sweet Jane - I didn\'t read the story you and Roberta are writing about - but I admire and respect your opinions and honesty. It also takes a big person to say sorry. (Did you say your hubby would like you to submit to him once in a while? Am I reading that correctly?) :0)
Hugs
JJ

Hi sweet Jill!
Yes you are reading that correctly. Lol
Thank you so much for your kind words here. I truly appreciate you.

Ditto Jane!!
Just a thought - I know there are lots of weird interpretations of domestic discipline. But sometimes submission can really spice up a relationship!

Jane I admire your honesty and also your bravery in accepting a mistake and trying to do the right thing by it. You are a good woman and I really hope this isn\'t the reason you\'re feeling sad. I agree with jill too, submission can really add spice to a relationship. A book I like is \"The proper care and feeding of husbands\" by Laura schlessinger. It\'s about the relationship side and doesn\'t talk about spanking or being dominated by anyone. I think you might like it :o)

Well said Roberta!!

Yes - Roberta mentioned this book and it is truly an eye-opener!! Great book!

I agree with ADrink. It sometimes is abusive and non-consensual, but it is often hard to tell.
Yes Roberta, we all have a choice, but some men make it extremely difficult for their partner to make choices, and psychological issues exist which cause people to believe they have no choice or don't want to make a choice when they are clearly in an abusive relationship (Stockholm syndrome). Roberta wrote: "My husbands hand would give out way before my bottom felt much impact. We quickly added in a hairbrush, then a wooden butter pat, then a proper leather paddle and then a belt. Is it still abuse?"
No, not if you want it, but it can become physically debilitating over time. The fact that it has taken more intense and extreme smacking for you to feel it the way you need to suggests that you may be suffering from nerve damage in your bottom from all your spankings (proximal neuropathy). This may lead to some serious physical problems in the future.

Well thankyou for this information, it's always nice to educate yourself and whilst I have vaguely heard of stockholm syndrome before, I didn't know much about it.
I had a really good read about stockholm syndrome and cognitive dissonance and I see a very clear differences between these and the natural love which occurs in a supportive DD marriage.
One difference is that victims of abusers who have stockholm syndrom are preoccupied with avoiding "trouble" that is, any individual, group, situation, comment, casual glance, or cold meal that may produce a temper tantrum or verbal abuse from the controller or abuser. To survive, “trouble” is to be avoided at all costs.
There are other differences which I won't go into here but the important thing is, my relationship is not like that. I see greater control and calmness in my husband than I did before we chose DD and he actively supports me to do things that are good for me but make me uncomfortable.
My mother is very difficult and I often argue with her, my husband encourages our relationship and that of other friends and family. If he was abusing me, would he be doing that?
I do however thank you for pointing this out and I accept that just because my relationship is positive and suportive it doesn't mean that the posibility of abuse/stockholm syndrome can never occur in any DD relationship so this will be something I will want to write about to prompt discussion amongst DD wives. Since I have a very good relationship with most of the women on the DD forums, we have good healthy marriages but it does no harm to educate yourself.

With regard to your thoughts about proximal neuropathy, I think much of our reaction to pain is an emotional response and being spanked no longer provokes such emotion in me as it once did.
We have done a huge amount of reading about how to spank in a safe way ie, not over bony areas etc and I can still feel my husband drawing a feather across my skin so I'm sure I have no worries in that department.

"I can still feel my husband drawing a feather across my skin so I'm sure I have no worries in that department."

Good to hear.

Yes Roberta - thanks for the idea...

*I am sure* we have good healthy marriages...that's what I meant.

I understand that you are not in an abusive relationship or suffer from Stockholm syndrome. I was just pointing out that that may be the case with others, and that choices are not always logical or easy.

I don't believe that any of the DD wives I talk to are either because we talk via messaging as well as reading each others stories we get to know more of them than just the occasional spanking story. Different doesn't mean unhealthy even if it is completely off the page form how you want to live your life but I can see it's handy to share information with others.

I guess the discussion is reminding me that spanking is sexual. Why then do they spank their children? Seems p e d o sadistic.

I don't spank my children, it seems even more important to me because I think well it turns me on, it can't be good for kids and I think being grounded or banned from their favourite toy is far more effective :o)

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The abuse in DD is not in the implements. Afterall, most enjoy the spanking and arrousal from it. The abuse that I have read about is the distrust and lack of freedom the ladies have, as their husbands censor their mail and confiscate their pass codes. If writing is an outlet, how can one be free to explore and create under the thumb and scrutiny of a controlling partner not to mention needing to get permission for something as trivial as adding a friend? There is your abuse.

You\'re right. Why anyone would want a control freak for a husband is beyond me.

It\'s all about finding the balance and what works.
I hate any form of fanaticism!!

Lol. I love dominant men, but I read about these rules and it seems that some are not allowed to think for themselves. I think punishment is great...and allowed to mess up.

\"If writing is an outlet, how can one be free to explore and create under the thumb and scrutiny of a controlling partner not to mention needing to get permission for something as trivial as adding a friend?\"

That\'s a good point Kandi....

Each couple has to make their own rules and guidelines! Some women want a control freak, I don\'t and therefore I don\'t have a control freak hubby.
You can have what ever kind of DD relationship you want - it\'s all about what you agree upon. If you don\'t like it, you can withdraw your consent.

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interesting - but it is about consensual and discipline has its place - and a large sexual component as well. With intelligent adults.

I am apt to agree with you for the most part, GSJ, but I know that in most cases, WOMEN initiate DD and TiH relationships. At first, I admit I was abhorred that any woman would subject herself to such treatment, but I have to confess that over time, I've actually felt myself drawn to this kind of a lifestyle. Please understand, I can't envision myself being spanked with any of the implements you listed, but as JackAndJillDD mentioned, she purchased the implement herself!

I think it can be a dangerous kind of relationship and CAN cross over into abuse when approached with the wrong attitude. (I'm not sure whether my opinion is worth anything, as I am, at this point, not in such a relationship.) My understanding is that, in surrender to authority, a woman has certain expectations of her man, and that each member of the couple ALWAYS has the other's best interest at heart, which is why it seems to work so well in most cases. We're not talking about a man slapping his wife around because she put too much salt in his dinner, but about a man who is genuinely concerned about his wife's well-being. I think it gets dangerous when the guise of DD crosses over into selfishness, and the expectation from both sides of the woman serving his needs, and of him serving his needs as well!

After a day at my job, where I'm there all day, and very much in charge and in responsibility, the idea of going home and having someone to just "take over" is very appealing indeed. I'm not sure whether I'll ever cross the line into this sort of relationship, but I agree that it can be very healthy when approached with the right mindset. [/two cents]

This is a wonderful post Jane.
I am happy to see that you find domestic discipline healthy.
Your grievance with our lifestyle is implements and hitting.
re. implements: My hubby uses a leather paddle, which I bought for him.
I feel nothing when he disciplines me with his hands. I do feel the wonderful
sting from his paddle. He never bruises me or abuses me but he does get his point across with his little paddle.
re. hitting - I totally agree. Slapping someone's face - hitting, punching, or any other form of violence has nothing to do with domestic discipline. You don't discipline a person with violence! You discipline with love. Spanking on the behind has always been a form a correcting behavior - violence has not.
Violence is total humiliation. What loving husband would ever humiliate the one he loves?

I'd like to add that there are sadists and masochists who practice kinky things hiding behind the guise of domestic discipline - but these slave/master relationships have nothing to do with DD.

best wishes
Jack's Jill

Thank you Jill!
I appreciate your input and the grace, class and intelligence that came with it.
I apologize if I came across rude or in any way hurtful yesterday, I was having a bad day though that is no excuse.

Jane!
No problem at all Jane- I have read many of your posts and appreciate your insight and comments even if we don't always agree. :0)
You are a gifted writer and I look forward to reading many more of your posts and comments!
Your point of view is always welcome on my stories!

best wishes
Jack's Jill

"I'd like to add that there are sadists and masochists who practice kinky things hiding behind the guise of domestic discipline - but these slave/master relationships have nothing to do with DD."

I agree, but I would like to add that many people in DD and TiH relationships actually do not want to admit to themselves that they are really into S and M, and slave/master relationships, so they claim it is all about conforming to what the Bible requires in relation to HOH, that their spouse is not their master or slave and its just that they have a dominant/submissive relationship, that its about being in a loving relationship, and things like that, but if anyone actually witnessed the behavior they engage in it would be obvious that they are really into S and M, and a master/slave relationship and are looking for excuses to make it seem like they aren't so they won't feel kinky and perverted.

I agree Ladyblue!
But that is really their problem. I see pictures of women with dog collars on and I want to scream! No one should ever treat another human being that way.

But I'm writing about domestic discipline in a moderate form and know many who practice this old-fashioned form of marriage. A marriage built on love and respect. I am so tired of hearing people "trash" their spouses verbally, people bickering and arguing over trivial things.
In our relationship - I was the one contradicting and bickering. I got so tired of hearing myself. Everyday was a struggle. Then I decided I had to do something about it. By giving my hubby the reins, showing him appreciation, love, trust, loyalty and devotion - I have helped turn what once was a marriage of turmoil into a wonderful, loving and peaceful marriage. I asked my husband to hold me accountable for my negative behavior and that is what he does when I lose my way. He has become a wonderful head of our household and I'm a happy camper!
Who could ask for more?

best wishes
Jack's Jill

Ladyblue, I can understand you. I even agree. But what's wrong with that? People choosing this kinds of relationship need to hide and if you join a forum such as this, it's not uncommon to be mercilessly judged. This can be even more difficult if they do happen to enjoy elements of S and M or BDSM. Since sometimes they even have to fight their own prejudices. Nobody teach us how to accept our sexual differences after all. Especially in close knitted societies or very religious ones. So, if they seek passages of the bible to feel OK with themselves, I wouldn't blame then. Who are we to judge other people beliefs?

I honestly don't think anything is wrong with it unless it becomes unwanted, and therefore abusive, unless the people engaging in this have psychological problems which should be addressed and treated if necessary. I agree that judging other people is not always a good thing, but it is a common aspect of human behavior. Let's face it, people who do not want to be judged often very critically, and mercilessly judge those who do so or who do not agree with them.

You can have both, I would class our relationship as DD and D/s although I don\'t call my husband master and I\'m definitely not his slave. A bit of kinky role play occasionally hurts nobody though :o)

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I used to know a couple that lived next door and practiced "domestic discipline." He was 40-something and she was 22. Twice I saw him spank her bare ***: once was for overdrawing the checkbook and once was for ruining his best suit. She was humiliated that I was present, but it didn't stop him.

Humiliation and being bareassed in front of you was probably part of the discipline. Few adult women appreciate their intimacy displayed in front of a stranger, especially when their panties are off in order to receive a disciplinary spanking. On the other hand, it is a lot more efficient.

She was not happy about it and definitely not turned on. She was about as angry as any woman I've ever seen. That guy had total control of the relationship. He was husband and father figure. He laid down the law and she had to obey or else.
Maybe the big age difference had a lot to do with that.

Angry? Did she struggle a lot and di he have to submit her, or did she lower her panties and submit on her own?

She submitted, but she was furious about it. She did own up to messing up the checkbook and the suit, though.

How come you were there to watch her take her panties off and submit? Did he mention to you that he wanted it that way? Did she fight? Did she insult him? How hard did he slap her buttocks, and how did you feel watching an adult female get spanked?

That is disrespectful and cruel. Shame on him. Breaking the rules and going against what the wife has indicated isn't acceptable to her and will make her angry and upset is mean.

Ladyblue - they are having you on. Discipline is private

I tend to agree. I was uncomfortable being there and it had to be much much worse for her.

If you were uncomfortable you were free to leave. It may or may not have been abuse, depending upon what they had agreed to. We have conscentual non consent. I don\'t always agree to the spanking at the time... it\'s hard to put yourself in that position at the time but I don\'t usually have a problem with my husbands decision to spank me afterwards. I trust him to do the right thing, it\'s why this is conscentual. I would be hugely pissed off he he spanked me in front of someone though and that would be a hard limit for me.

I have to admit that uncomfortable or not, I could not take my eyes off the scene. It\'s like a train wreck: ya gotta look. I saw them on a regular basis. I\'m sure she was embarrassed knowing I\'d seen it.

The abuse would have been if she had clearly said to her husband that she didn\'t want to be on show like that and that he had no consideration for her feelings and forced her to expose and degrade herself against her will. Most of us submit to our husbands because we trust him to behave in our best interests and help us learn and grow as a person. Without that trust, the dynamic can\'t work.

That makes sense. She did not fight him over it or ask him not to. But, she clearly did not like having to drop her drawers and bend over his knee in front of me.

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With my current signifant other... I dont spank except for FUN.... WHEN I DISIPLIN HER I hold her down so that I dont get hurt WHILE TELLING her that she isout of line! Then SHE has to be strong enough to submit out of choice rather than fear! However... Becuse of her HUGE tolerance for pain .....if you filmed us WITHOUT sound you would be HORIFIED !!! AT OUR KINKY FUN!!!!

" WHEN I DISIPLIN HER I hold her down so that I dont get hurt WHILE TELLING her that she isout of line! "

Uh wut ?

Dente, I agree with you.... Uh what?

It seems that if you have to hold her down so you won't get hurt she is not liking, and is not accepting of what you are doing. If your wife wants to hurt you when you are doing something to her she is essentially telling you something you really should pay attention to.

That\'s rubbish, he has a play relationship, He clearly said it\'s just for FUN! The fight is part of the psychology! It\'s good fun to brat. I often want to be over powered by my husband, I will fight physically and mentally too. I will struggle and enjoy him catching me or holding me down. I will say \"Stir\" instead of sir just because it will wind him up. I know the difference between play and discipline :o)

You let a havr indian part irish girl get drunk and want to fight then show enough self controll to ONLY hold her down while she is trying to HURT ya and then tell me I am the bad guy...lol walk a mile in my shoes...lol you have no idea.

She\'s a feminist Templeton, you will ALWAYS be the bad guy! :o)

Not with me, Roberta - I'm one -- and I suspect Tempolton is one as well. 'Equal but different' is my motto

Not true. I don't always think men are the bad guys because I am a feminist. You shouldn't continuously think you know everything about everyone Roberta and how they think and act because quite often it has been shown that you don't.

I think she's having a little joke...

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I appreciate your concern but abuse, by definition, is not Domestic Discipline. If the person receiving discipline is happy, content and feels safe in their own home then no matter what stories are being posted the author is posting stories about their DD experiences, not their abuse experiences, no matter what you think. Try not to make a big deal out of something that really isn't, especially when those you are trying to protect don't feel they need to be saved.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT!!! You may wish to gather a little more information about how much ENJOYMENT and psycological fufillment that can be had by the use of DIFFRENT inplements that may be used by a person to deliver STRONG STIMULATION...... many people have a higher tolerance for pain than others.... And can find the use of a TOOL such as a hanger to give a "crisp" efect and that of a wid flat paddle "hair brush, ping pong paddle, oar ect..." To make a LARGE sound and less stimulation..... A mans hand can be used in DIFFERENT ways to in flict DIFFERENT LEVELS OF STIMULATION! For instance if it is held limp as it inpacts it is signicantly DIFFERENT than if it is held stiffAND cupped.... I my self have an implement called a hog slapper that I bought at a " farm and ranch store" it is about 24 inches long by 2 inches wide it is made of 2 thick pieces of leather sewen togather with a hevey wire in about 18 inches the last 4 or 5 inches are the striking surface and are NOT sewn togather when it strikes it slapps togather and makes a LOUD sound with a relitively small sound! If I were to use my hand to strike hard enough to make the same sound it would leave bruses!!! And make it sore fore several days.... The SOUND HAS A HUGE PSYALOGICAL INPACT even though the level of stimulation is realitively low.... THAT SAID.... I tend to use WORDS to inflict PAIN and DISAPLIN. and. The hog slapper for " kinky fun".... I can devastate a girl by whispering that I am "DISAPOINTED IN HER" and then walking away for a time.... THAT HURTS a person who cares... While the use of a low level of inpact that RAMPS up in intensity can deliver a eurphoric HIGH that is quite plesurable.... Infact when MY back is hurting I will frequently have some one slap MY back in a light manner that SLOWLY ramps up to what most people would shudder at if they saw just the last few strokes..... IT LEAVES AN ENDORPHIN RUSH THAT IS NOT ADICTIVE YET RELIVES THE BACK PAIN BETTER THAN NARCOTICS...... all that aside- there are people that use DD and TiH to hide ABUSE !!! and those people should be CORECTED! BUT THE USE OF A TOOL TO DELIVER A SPANKING IS NOT INHERENTLY BAD OR ABUSIVE..... I sincerly mean to give you information.... And NOT confortation! I am saying that if you dont have ALL the information you cant make ACCURATE judgments.... And that if a man is ABUSIVE in his heart that it does not matter whether he is using a bull whip or his WORDS..... Abuse is abuse! And love is love.... And what appears to be one " on the surface may infact be the other" my significant other was abuse as a child.... If I were not strong enough to spank her from time tob time she would LOOSE ALL RESPECT for me as a man.... However if I give her a large

Box of CHOCOLATE she has a weakness that would not allow her to stop eating it untill it was gone.... That would appear by most peoples standerds to be NICE.... HOWEVER the guilt and self lothing that she would feel would be CRUEL to inflict on her!!! Things are NOT allways what they appear! That hog slapper makes the SOUND of a belt but with a tenth the ACTUAL inpact of the belt that she associates with a strong MAN!

*nice tempolton*

I thank you for the information Templeton and I appreciate the respectful and nice way you delivered it. I have given weight and credibility to what you have said and I can agree with most of it ( though I personally disagree with corporal punishment).

WTF????? I HAVE NEVER SPANKED A CORPRAL.

Lol...corporal :o)

My spelling is PUNISHMENT enough...

Lol, we love you just the same :o)

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I view spanking more as an erotic activity than as «discipline». However, if a woman wants to be submissive and feels she finds her harmony in this, she has the legitimate right to choose to live like this, since it ties in with her love for her man. I think therew is a balance to be found in a relationship between excessive, stupid submissiveness reducing an adult woman to child status (if not worse) and the danger of excessive dominance/independence. If you're a woman and want to live an independent life...don't try to build a relationship with a man. Stick to your independence and short-term relationships. No man is going to live in a relationship and aceept playing second fiddle all the time. But every couple is different...

"If you're a woman and want to live an independent life...don't try to build a relationship with a man . . . No man is going to live in a relationship and aceept playing second fiddle all the time. ."

Some men want to be subs and be dominated all the time. It just depends. Being independent does not necessarily mean that the person you are in a relationship with is going to play second fiddle all the time, or that you are living without caring, interaction, or integration with the one you love. Independence for me just means not being dependent on my husband and not being with a man who always wants to dominate and control me. That's all.
We have a very equal relationship. Sometimes I am in control, sometimes he is, sometimes we both are, and sometimes neither of us are. Sometimes he plays second fiddle, and sometimes I do. It all just depends on nothing more than the circumstances.

I'm from a patriarchal culture in which dd is normal. I am punished with a leather whip and a belt. I agree with this practice as women are created for subordination. All my female relatives are punished in simlar manner.

There is definitely abuse in dd relationships, BUT many are actually very very happy in this lifestyle and many are like me who brought it up to their husbands/bf's rather than the man bringing it up to the woman. I can't even tell you what it's like to give up some control. I am a very independent woman and I don't need someone to tell me what to do at all times of the day, but to have someone take some of that control away is blissful. On the other hand, I completely accept your choice of living in a non DD household. There is nothing wrong with choosing to live in one as well as nothing wrong with not choosing to live in one.



I find the comments to be frustrating. Each person has no ability to accept that someone else has a different opinion. I am a woman that has been in relationships with some DD and I have been beaten with a belt because of something I have done, but I was not abused. I agreed to what was happening. And my bf at the time had a VERY difficult time with it because he didn't want to hurt me. Yes, most of the time using one's hand is enough, but sometimes not. And anyone has the right to agree to use different things to spank their submissive IF it is agreed upon between both people. Safety should always be a concern so as long as people are doing this in a safe way and it is consensual then thats all that matters.



I have seen many posts on here that suggest possible abuse and I as well as many other D's or s's respond in a loving way telling this person that what they are experiencing is abuse and that they need to get out. Abuse happens across all countries, races, partnerships and all ways of living, but DD doesn't mean abuse and choosing to use different spanking implements doesn't mean abuse either.



This post and the subsequent comments remind me of similar arguments about gay marriage. WHY should anyone care what is going on in someone else's house. If you suspect abuse, you reach out and try to help the person, otherwise let them live their life if they are happy with how it is going. Do what you can for the person, BUT not all DD relationships are abusive and again just because there are other devices used such as a belt doesn't mean it is abuse.

As I mentioned previously, my husband spanks me during sex sometimes, but not for disciplinary purposes. We feel that it is only logical for children to be spanked for disciplinary purposes.

Unlike adults, children are immature, naive, and inexperienced, and often do not have the knowledge and ability to understand when they are behaving very badly or have done something very wrong that they should never do again. Some people feel that the only way to teach them this is to punish them by spanking them. I have never felt this way and have not done it with my children, but I can understand that some people feel its necessary.

But I honestly cannot understand why adults would want it, or feel it is necessary with another adult, since we are mature, knowledgeable, and experienced, and we DO have the ability to understand when we have behaved badly or have done something very wrong without being physically punished by being spanked to teach us this. We are capable of discussing things to correct them without being punished so disciplinary spanking doesn't make much sense to me.

I have spoken to some people who have admitted they want it because of the endorphin release that gets them high, or because for some reason it sexually arouses them. If that is the case it doesn't need to be associated with discipline. They should just be able to ask their spouse to give them a spanking when they want one. There are others who have told me they prefer being spanked because they do not want to endure the emotional and verbal criticism and punishment they often get from their spouse for behaving badly or doing something wrong. Instead they prefer to just being spanked. But to be honest that seems immature and evasive to me which won’t always work out. I think it might be better if they, and their spouse, learned to communicate better with each other when something that results in a spanking occurs to get it resolved through rationally and calmly discussing it, and not with a spanking.

I feel this way because I have known husbands in DD relationships who have looked down on, and felt disrespect for, their TiH wives (see link in post below as an example) who wanted to be spanked when they did something that the husband didn't like or agree with, instead of just discussing, and trying to resolve it with him through communication. Those men often ended up seeing their wives as silly, childish, irresponsible women who they resented. Many of them ended up having affairs with more mature, independent, responsible women that they didn't look down on and view as silly, immature, and inferior. But it often depends on many things besides just DD spanking. The wives of some of those men were silly, irresponsible, childish women regardless of the fact that they wanted to be spanked, and that may very well be what prompted their husbands to look down on them and want to be with someone different.

As I wrote above, I actually enjoy getting my tushy smacked lightly by my husband during sex, but I would NEVER want to be spanked like a child as a disciplinary measure. Once we actually got a little riding crop that he smacked me with once during sex and it hurt like hell and caused me to instinctively disengage, and detatch from him. He was very sorry and immediately busted that crop in half and dumped it in the trash swearing he would never use anything but his hands (or other body part - LOL) to smack my tushy.

Jane, you right, there are definitely some woman who are abused in DD relationships.

OMG! He is awful! I think I stand corrected, how could this ever be considered healthy?
I tell you I sometimes go to bed worrying abut these women, I kid you not.

I wonder how many of the husbands of the wives here on EP who are into DD and TiH relationships secretly think of their wives this way? I have mentioned before that almost all of the men I know in these kinds of relationships disrespect and look down on their wives like that guy does, but they don't really let the wife know how they view them because even though they look down on them they still love them. However, that is an abusive way of thinking. I wonder how many of the wives would realize what a mistake it is to let their husbands treat them this way if they knew their husband sees them the way that guy sees his wife? They will probably never know so they will just keep living the lie.

I absolutely love it when someone who doesn't understand a concept (such as feminism) makes a total *** of himself by creating an idiotic group that others are stupid enough to join. Jerkmanly (name reversed so he can't "search himself in his infinite vanity) is clearly a piece of work, acting purely on misconceptions. As for Dandozer, the story "Stay In School, Get A Man'S Education And Career. The American Woman'S Life Plan" made me see red. How and when did getting an education and a career become something to which only men were entitled? But what would be the point of replying? He'd either not respond or respond once, leaving a short paragraph full of fallacy.

Sorry about my mood. Clearly, guavachick needs some coffee...

Its obvious that those men have serious issues with women, and life in general. I don't waste much of my time with them (of course they have both blocked me) because they are obviously way out there in the atmosphere grasping unrealistic thoughts and beliefs and clinging to them hopelessly.

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I don't think DD or TIH relationships can be completely healthy.



When a wife is begging her head of household/HOH to either not spank her or to stop spanking h er and he refuses to quit the act is no longer truely consensual.



A husband has the right to have a spouse who is mentally, physically and spiritually able to act as an adult not a child.

He shouldn't have to play "father" to his wife, just as a wife shouldn't have to be her husbands mother.



Hurting someone in an attempt to modify their bad behavior is less effective than rewarding them for their good behavior.



"One way of giving positive reinforcement in behavior modification is in providing compliments, approval, encouragement, and affirmation; a ratio of five compliments for every one complaint is generally seen as being effective in altering behavior in a desired.manner and even in producing stable marriages. "



Prostitution is also consensual but isn't exactly healthy for men and women.

I couldn't agree with you more. And as I mentioned in a comment I made on another story like this one, men in these relationships who have wives who are like their children often end up having affairs and leaving those wives for the other woman, when the other woman is a responsible, mature woman who is more their partner than their subordinate who they are responsible for taking care of and disciplining. Many men get tired of having so much responsibility and want a break, and want someone else to take over the reins once in a while so they will either secretly go see a prostitute who is a dominatrix, or they will end up having an affair with a woman as I described above. Everyone needs some balance in their life to be healthy and happy.

You make a great point...I'm new on here...but let me make a few comments. I work hard and have a lot of people working under me...it has been very interesting to get home and let Linda take charge. It can be as simple as cooking dinner for her, or pouring her a drink while I vacuum...or on to more erotic encounters

Ladyblue I agree the key words being balance and partnership. I think this is what ultimately all adults long for in a loving relationship. Not to conquer or be conquered.

I think the discussion this woman provides goes along with what jane and I have said here, and gives an example of how others agree with what we are expressing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr6HhSJty5o

Thank you! I will take a look.

Just to clarify, jane said she, and many others in "vanilla" relationships do not need nor want to be converted. Why you interpreted that to mean that she specifically felt that you were trying to convert her and others is unclear to me. You may have assumed that she was implying that, but you don't know for sure that she was. Perhaps I should have butt out and not stepped in to defend her, but you went on the attack with me in an earlier post, and did insult me, which wasn't very nice, and jane and I get along well and share many of the same views so I didn't think it was wrong for me to come in and defend her when you attacked her.



If you don't think its insulting to accuse someone of judging others, and suggesting they are judging others about something they know nothing about, and that their marital dreams have not come true with their spouse, and that they are actually in a DD relationship where brainwashing is occurring, you need to wise up. It seems that many men who are disciplinarians in DD relationships seem to have become very comfortable with the idea that it is OK to act bossy, superior, and condescending to women, and they regularly exhibit that type of behavior toward women outside of their relationship. That's not cool.

Thank you Ladyblue, both for defending me and for truly clarifying what I did mean.
I too have noticed a self righteous, bossy and condescending attitude with many of these men in DD. I wish they would just come out and be honest about what DD is...BDSM kink ( which there is nothing wrong with if its safe and consensual) rather then trying to convince themselves and others that this is "normal" for everyone.

Trying to convince themselves and others that what they are doing is normal and common, when it clearly isn't to most people, is something I am seeing more and more. It goes along with the idea that people think there is safety in numbers. They seem to think that just because some other people do the same abnormal things that they do, and like it, that it isn't as strange and weird as deep down inside they really know it is. They feel less ashamed and embarrassed for doing something they really know is not normal, or psychologically or physically healthy. It seems like they start thinking they are special and unique, and maybe even superior to others who behave normally, and have normal, healthy relationships.