Religion Does Not Teach Love.

 
 

Sadly religious beliefs reduce God to the level of humanity with all its foibles and prejudices,so that makes the God of religion a cruel,vengeful and petty God of the male gender.God has no gender and God is far above punishing unmarried mothers or same sex couples for their "terrible crimes"just to give an example.  Religion does NOT teach love and gives a wrong concept of God.
berangere berangere
66-70, F
31 Responses Aug 21, 2013

I do not believe in religion it is something man has made not from God. Jesus settled all of that when He died on the cross. It is the bible that teaches us how to live our life not some religious sect. Man will worship the religion and replace God with it. If you don't believe in the bible so be it. But God is love not religion.
In the book of James it refers to true religion is care for the orphans and widows. And that is the only place in the bible that refers or the word religion.

God is love ,religion teaches the opposite of love.Religion is the cause of much death and misery in the world,I agree with you that there are passages in the Bible that refer to a loving God and loving your fellow man and this mostly stems from the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament,but religion has chosen to concentrate on passages from the old testament that depict a cruel,unforgiving and judgemental god . All Religions are about power and control.

Yes I believe that.

Love is enough, why do we need God, When one starts loving all without any conditions one will see that god is emerging from all sides and everywhere.

Could not agree more! God express himself or herself (God has no gender) through humanity and also all other creations on earth,he or she is not a separate entity somewhere up there in the sky! As the church would have us believe.

Your understanding is great, we and all in existence is made of the stuff called God, once this is realized this then ones life is blissed out

We need God Almighty because he is the Source of Life. Only he can rightfully give it or take it away.

Good post!

Wow. I presume you are specifically referring to christian religion. Jesus' most important lesson was love and forgiveness: Love God, Love fellow man, forgive each other. Do not judge Jesus by the false prophets that try to capitalize on his good name. However, if you were to be referring to to Mohomad, he did indeed teach intolerance.

Appreciate you trying to make a name for yourself on Ep, but the fact that most people that come on here and other social websites to say things they normally wouldn't say out in public amidst strangers so right there tolerance and forgiveness are right out the door as "outdated concepts". Unfortunate but true. I have been attacked as well but what you do to the least you do unto me (Christ). I believe that the person that is the target of the attack here is part of the Jehovah Witness sect who's men are notoriously misogynistic, which is sad. I've done some speaking out myself against a certain sect too who's practices I find questionable, but I agree, it is really none of my business as I can do little about all the dysfunctional bullshit going on in today's religions and the only thing the Human Rights Commission gives a **** about is if the people picking coffee beans in Brazil is getting good benefits. So goes the game of life.

Odinic.
Yes, Jesus taught all those things, but the Christian religions (because there are many) for the most do just the opposite.

“They refuse any form of violence and without rebelling put up with the many trials inflicted on them because of their beliefs . . . How different the world would be if we all woke up one morning firmly decided not to take up arms again, whatever the cost or the reason, just like Jehovah’s Witnesses!” - “Andare Alle Genti”

“I have come to the conclusion that if Jehovah’s Witnesses were the only ones living on the earth, wars would cease to exist, and the only duties of the policemen would be to control traffic and to issue passports.” - “Gyűrű”

“Suffice it to say that if all the world lived by the creed of the Jehovah Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king!”- “The Sacramento Union”

“The work of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the revival and re-establishment of the primitive Christianity practised by Jesus and his disciples . . . All are brothers.” - “The Encyclopedia Canadiana”

Interesting claim. I have never witnessed, in person, such a thing. Not saying it's never happened. I am vaguely aware of some strange groups claiming some sort of Christian affiliation, such as Jim Jones's who lead his small group to mass suicide a long time ago. I do not know what he claimed. To claim that 'the Christain religions' teach hatred with no specific allegations is just plain reckless and contrary to many specific cases of people acting out Jesus' teachings that I have witnessed. If you want an example, a Church in town took in a couple that was living in the woods in a tent, married them, gave them a place to stay for a few days and put them on a Bus to connect up with their long lost family. There is a world famous medical center near here, which was started by Christian nuns, they did it out of love for humanity, according to Christian teachings.

Just wondering, because some people have sinned while claiming to follow Jesus, does that cause you to disregard Jesus' teachings?

“During the genocide of Tutsi and Hutu living in Rwanda, there were Hutu who risked their lives to protect Tutsi and Tutsi who protected Hutu. Some were killed by extremists for protecting their fellow believers. For example, a Hutu Witness named Gahizi was killed after hiding a Tutsi sister named Chantal. Chantal’s Tutsi husband, Jean, was hidden in another location by a Hutu sister named Charlotte. For 40 days Jean and another Tutsi brother remained hidden in a large chimney, only coming out for brief periods during the night. All this time, Charlotte provided them with food and protection, although living close to a Hutu army camp. On this page, you can see a picture of a reunited Jean and Chantal, who are thankful that their Hutu fellow worshipers ‘risked their necks’ for them, just as Prisca and Aquila did for the apostle Paul.—Romans 16:3, 4.


Another Hutu Witness, Rwakabubu, was praised by the newspaper Intaremara for protecting Tutsi fellow believers. It stated: “There is also Rwakabubu, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who continued to hide people here and there among his brothers (that’s how fellow believers call one another). He used to spend the whole day long carrying food and drinking water for them though he is an asthmatic. But God made him extraordinarily strong.”

Consider, too, an interested Hutu couple named Nicodeme and Athanasie. Before the outbreak of genocide, this married couple had been studying the Bible with a Tutsi Witness named Alphonse. At the risk of their lives, they hid Alphonse in their home. Later they realized that the house was not a safe place because their Hutu neighbors knew about their Tutsi friend. Therefore, Nicodeme and Athanasie hid Alphonse in a hole in their yard. This was a good move because the neighbors began to come searching for Alphonse almost every day. While lying in this hole for 28 days, Alphonse meditated on Bible accounts such as the one about Rahab, who hid two Israelites on the roof of her house in Jericho. (Joshua 6:17) Today Alphonse continues his service in Rwanda as a preacher of the good news, thankful that his Hutu Bible students risked their lives for him. And what about Nicodeme and Athanasie? They are now baptized Witnesses of Jehovah and conduct over 20 Bible studies with interested persons. - “Sharing the Comfort That Jehovah Provides”

It was not because they were witnesses,it was because they were brave and heroic people who cared for their fellow men and wanted to protect and save their lives,their religion had nothing to do with it.During the second world war my parents hid a Jewish man in their cellar for weeks,to hide him form the Nazi and so risking their lives and the lives of their children and they were not even practicing Christians.

Prove it.

What I have said should have addressed it.

It didn't. You've made some wild claims. Can you prove any of them?

What is so wild about saying that you do not need religion to be a decent.caring,loving Human being prepared to take great risks to protect people in dangerous situations.I think you use words to confuse and obfuscate.You must know by now,that you are barking up the wrong tree!

You're not making sense. Prove your claim. Prove that in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses their faith in Jehovah God has absolutely nothing to do with their loving bravery and heroism.

That May or may not be true. However Christianity is not just Jesus and why do I need all that hateful baggage that goes along with Christianity to know love and forgiveness? Those are distinctly human traits and knowledge and practice of them has as much to do with religion as fish and bicycles.

To what "hateful baggage" are you specifically referring to? Can you supply chapter and verse ciations?

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@jilong

You professed "There is no God"? Prove this claim. Show that God absolutely does not nor cannot exist.

Before you are "diagnosed" with "depression" or "low self esteem" make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by ********. <br />
<br />
I have found that a lot of these "so-called" "non-religious spiritual teachers" can be in fact just as bad as the church goers twisting things around to "suit them" in order to be some type of "enforcer" who think it's "their job" to derail, thwart, and undermine people's spiritual growth believing that one in being "guided by the 'ego' " through some self-righteous "authority/superiority"

I disagree with this but not because i believe in God but because i do not. If u don't believe in God ... Don't believe in God but don't claim to know the true heart of God and how (it) feels. There is no God. All those qualities u claim to know are human qualities and it is time we started taking responsibility and credit for them without kneeling.

Small problem:

1. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
2. You claim God absolutely does not exist.
3. You have limited and incomplete knowledge.

4. It's possible God exists outside your knowledge.
5. Therefore you can 'believe' God does not exist, but cannot prove it.
6. Therefore your claim can be summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.

“To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge.” ― Ravi Zacharias

Max: wtf r u on about? The contention that god exists is yours. The burden of proof is not on me to prove that god does not exist but on u and yours to prove that he does. U have not done this. No evidence, no belief. U can choose to believe in an imaginary man in the sky and to be his subject but i do not and IMO for good reason.

Have you forgotten? You professed "There is no God"? Prove this claim. Show that God absolutely does not nor cannot exist.

I love it when the religious try to speak for atheism in order to set up a straw man that they then burn down. Atheists don't need infinite knowledge to disbelieve the existence of god. Infinite knowledge is the exclusive domain of god. Such hubris is the domain of the religious.

I cannot prove that something does not exist. Again: it is your contention and your burden to prove.

i. Seeing as you're incapable of providing proof for your claim, I can write it off without proof for the sophistry it most certainly is.

ii. False charge of fallacy. You did in fact claim "There is no God." Try again.

iii. Are you insinuating an unrestricted negative can't be verified? Then again wouldn't that make your very own claim an unrestricted negative?

In turn, if unrestricted negatives simply cannot been proven, then no one can prove that no one can prove an unrestricted negative. And if there is no one who can verify that no one can prove an unrestricted negative, it has to be rationally possible for you to prove an unrestricted negative.

Hence your casuistic assertion that not a single person can prove a universal negative is self-refuting - if it's true, it's false!

Ex : Evidence Santa Claus could not exist in reality - http://bit.ly/185Tf1D
Now try to apply the same process for God Almighty.

Oh Max, more sophistry?
a negative becomes an unrestricted negative becomes a universal negative?
the gods become a god becomes God becomes God Almighty (are you making a claim there, max?)
And all this nonsense from someone who cannot prove his own claims... and spams everywhere to hide that sad fact

It is very nice knowing someone else is paying attention, thanks. Max doesnt really seem to be listening and i think we r just targets for his tortured eccliastical logic. So thanks again Newjaninev2!!! Take care and keep thinking.

Could not agree more!

Well said but you got to push back even if it means all of that. Silence in the face of tyranny and all that right?

I some cases it is better not to continue with a conversation that is no longer a debate and leads nowhere.

Yes. You are right. But half the reason i am here IS to engage for the sake of it, my goal is not to convert nor to 'win' but to expose, which i have done with your help: thank you very much!

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Does this mean there's no such thing as sin?

Depends as who is in command of your life, if you have given your life to live by your EGO only.

The ego has us in a detour in to FEAR.
Sin and the Ego go hand in hand.
We have been given free will, to live from Ego or spirit.
When we feel guilty then we are living by our EGO. As the ego violets the law of GOD, but you can leave the sins of the EGO to the Holy Spirit that is what the Atonement is for. While you feel guilty then it indicates that your EGO is in command, and the EGO experiences guilt.

When we live from sprit then there is no sin acted out, as we live one with the mind of GOD.

Please reply with authenticity, support, and respect

You lost me. How does this answer my simple query?

@ Maxximiliann; Ego: Root meaning: The individual self, as distinct from other selves or the world. Ego is Latin for "I," and when you say "I" you are referring to a self distinct from others. ACIM: The entire self you think you are, the "I" you think you are. This self is false, was made by you, and is actually only a belief: The belief that you are a separate entity—a separate mind living within a separate body—that you have your own personal history and future, your own will and private thoughts, that you create yourself and sustain yourself. This is not who you are and so the ego is a contradiction, an insane belief, a mistaken identity.

The ego is in direct, fundamental and total opposition to God (see devil). Its basic mood is fear of God, fear that it will disappear into His Love and Oneness. Its single motivation is to protect its "existence" from the "threat" of God and make itself a permanent, eternal reality. Its goal is to conquer and kill God and replace Him on His throne. To do this it must keep your eternal allegiance as its maker while at the same time trying to kill you, since you are God's Son.

It hopes to attain this paradoxical goal through persuading you to constantly attack. By promising you that attack will bring you pleasure and safety it keeps your allegiance. Yet it knows that attack will really bring death, since attack makes you think you deserve to die for your sins. The ego, however, is merely an idea, and thus has had no effect on who you really are. It has no power over you and can be relinquished whenever you choose, at which time it will simply disappear, be reinterpreted

I don't follow. Was this meant to answer my query to Diamond?

@ Diamond; "Any attempt you make to correct a brother means that you believe that correction by "you" is possible.and this can only be arrogance of the ego" ~ A Course In Miracles

I can't help but notice how many angry people dr8ive around with bumper stickers that reads; "Be the change you want to see in the world"

It's often not so much as an affirmation as it is an instruction to others; YOU be the change "I" want to see in this world!!!"

To teach is to demonstrate.

It is not possible to give what you don't have.

To try to and teach peace while harboring anger guilt and blame is a waste of time.

Do your best to stay in your own yard, little miracle worker.

It is your use...or misuse, of your of your energy, your vibration which teaches the most powerfully and effectively...for better or worse.

There is no such thing as "righteous anger"

There is only anger.

The awakening of the human race is important.

Not your hate filled agenda.

The ego has many disguises.

Being a "lightworker" can be one of them

When you are focused on where someone else is getting it "wrong" you have already exiled yourself from The Kingdom and cannot be of real help to anyone

Ask instead for Help IN CHANGING YOUR OWN MIND ABOUT THE OTHER. RELEASE THEM AND RELINQUISH THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE GATHERED AGAINST THEM.


Yes. "God" wants you to help each other but in a non judgmental, non attached way!!!

When you can communicate without judgement and without attachment THERE IS A MUCH GREATER CHANCE THAT YOU WILL ACTUALLY BE DEMONSTRATING WHAT YOU DESIRE TO TEACH.


What do you choose to demonstrate today/

God/Love?

Or assholeism?

As you teach so shall you learn.

It’s time to kick the habit of deciding on our own. Deciding on our own is deciding with the ego, the idea of being alone and separate. Whenever we decide on our own, we are judging ourselves, though it may seem that we are judging something external. With judgment comes guilt and fear. As long as we continue to judge, happiness is impossible.

We dedicate today to joining with the truth in our minds, the Holy Spirit, in all our decisions. We remember that the Holy Spirit’s goal is to lead us back to the experience of perfect happiness and perfect peace in the Heart of God. This is all we really want. This practice will take great strides toward the happiness that God wills for us. Choosing to follow Holy Spirit’s lead is accepting God’s gift of perfect happiness, perfect peace and eternal Love.

Thank you for your reply.Religion does not reflect what God is meant to be,unconditional love.As for "righteous anger" it is another excuse to attack those who do not hold the same beliefs or values.

@Bera

Are you alleging God has never punished depraved sinners?

@maxximilliann; God never punishes, people do, since God is only Love in It's Purest Form, it doesn't recognize "deprivation" because there is no deprivation in It, only people are "depraved" because they deprive themselves of Love and therefore you are the only one that "sees sin" and therefore believe in someone as being "worthy of punishment" with your self righteous "authority".

The word God has actually become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. I use it sometimes, but I do so sparingly. By misuse, I mean that people who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred, the infinite vastness behind that word, use it with great conviction, as if they knew what they are talking about. Or they argue against it, as if they knew what it is that they are denying.

This misuse gives rise to absurd beliefs, assertions, and egoic delusions, such as "My or our God is the only true God, and your God is false," or Nietzsche's famous statement "God is dead."

The word has become a closed concept. The moment the word "God" is uttered, a mental image is created of an old man with a white beard, a mental representation of someone or something outside you almost inevitably a male someone or something.

Neither God nor Being nor any other word can define or explain the ineffable reality behind the word, so the only important question is whether the word is a help or a hindrance in enabling you to experience That toward which it points. Does it point beyond itself to that transcendental reality, or does it lend itself too easily to becoming no more than an idea in your head that you believe in, a mental idol?

The word Being explains nothing, but nor does God. Being, however, has the advantage that it is an open concept. It does not reduce the infinite invisible to a finite entity. It is impossible to form a mental image of it. Nobody can claim exclusive possession of Being. It is your very essence, and it is immediately accessible to you as the feeling of your own presence, the realization I am that is prior to I am this or I am that. So it is only a small step from the word Being to the experience of Being.

A good effort at explaining something difficult to put into words.

It was a nice try, I have to admit. Unfortunately, it overlooks what Christ himself taught about God:

"just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." -Matthew 24:37-39

And why did Jehovah God deem it necessary to wipe everyone off the face of the Earth except for Noah and his family? Because the world had become “filled with violence.” (Genesis 6:11)

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@Heavyduty

That's fine but, remember, you said "I believe that every conceivable idea is true."

This would seem to imply, for instance, that you believe it's objectively morally good to rape a little girl to death.

@ heavyduty
I don\'t think maxximiliann has looked at the videos posted below or he is in total denial.

Indeed and, per your own statement, it is a true statement.

Get help.

\"We do not condone or protect child molesters. Our elders expel unrepentant sinners who commit this crime. (1 Corinthians 5:13) In the United States, over 80,000 elders currently serve in over 12,300 congregations. (Acts 20:28) During the last 100 years, only eleven elders have been sued for child abuse in thirteen lawsuits filed in the United States. In seven of these lawsuits against the elders, accusations against the Watchtower Society itself were dismissed by the courts. Of course, one victim is one victim too many. However, the incidence of this crime among Jehovah’s Witnesses is rare.

Congregation elders comply with child abuse reporting laws. (Mark 12:17; Romans 13:1) We do not silence victims. Our members have an absolute right to report this horrible crime to the authorities. The October 2007 issue of our monthly journal Awake! features the cover series, “Keep Your Children Safe!” These articles clearly show our concern for protecting children from sexual abuse.\" - http://bit.ly/1734V6z

Argumentum ignoratio elenchi. When have Jehovah\'s Witnesses ever claimed infallibility? Where does Jesus say his loyal disciples would be infallible? Were Jesus Apostles infallible?

The very first Christians were also regarded as a cult - just as we are today. Jewish leaders said of the early Christians: “Truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against.” (Acts 28:22) Paul and Silas were accused of having “overturned the inhabited earth,” acting “in opposition to the decrees of Caesar.” (Acts 17:6, 7) Such false accusations did not prevent the early Christians from carrying out their commission to preach the good news of the Kingdom. In 60-61 C.E., Paul was able to speak of the “good news” that was “bearing fruit and increasing in all the world” and that had been “preached in all creation that is under heaven.” (Col. 1:5, 6, 23) Today, Jehovah’s Witnesses are being falsely accused, even as the first-century Christians were. Yet, the work of preaching the Kingdom message prospers and brings those who share in it much happiness.

So let me get this straight. Your argument is that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians because Antichrists say so? Really?

They do cut family ties with past members. Is that not an anti Christian act. They even keep children from their parents !!!!!!!

Didn't Christ Jesus cut ties with Judas?

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@Diamond<br />
<br />
You claim, "Jesus loves us all as we are - he does not judge."<br />
<br />
How, then, do you reconcile your opinions with the following? <br />
<br />
"[Jesus] is the One decreed by God to be judge of the living." -Acts 10:42 (Bracket mine.)<br />
<br />
"For we must all be made manifest before the judgment seat of the Christ, that each one may get his award for the things done through the body, according to the things he has practiced, whether it is good or vile." -2 Corinthians 5:10<br />
<br />
"[Jehovah God] has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed [Christ Jesus], and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead." -Acts 17:31 (Brackets mine.)

You misapprehend my friend. That I do not readily accept your opinions as truth does not mean I do not respect you. Not in the slightest. Why would it?

@Jenvice

I've condemned no one therefore you're accusation of judgmentalness is uncalled for and rude.

What you've been witnessing, on the other hand, is the discernment I exercise in determining the veridicality of an expressed opinion, nothing more.

Religion most often has historically sought to control others and even the best intention of that was done with the mindset that others were not smart enough to discern God, spirituality, or ancient writings for themselves. It tragically has been the cause of much discrimination, hatred, war, and loss of faith.

I really like the second video which depicted the young lady questioning and redefining her beliefs and her understandings of what she has been taught.

Happy Saturday Jenvice!

I\'d like to only point out that what you observe are the pernicious effects of false religion. True religion, on the other hand, has been nothing but a blessing for mankind. Why, then, throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I would not throw out the Baby with the Bath water - I also don\'t think Organized Religion has done mankind any true favors. Take for instance, early Christian on Christian persecution over interpretation of Holy Scripture. Mohammed\'s zeal to convert or conquer, the Thirty Year War in 1600 as well as the persecution and house arrest of Galileo. I could remind you that Human Sacrifice in Aztec and Mayan Cultures were wrapped in their religion. You might remember that there are today church members in the USA protesting the funerals of Soldiers who come home dead from war because these people believe their religion says it is okay to do so since they think homosexuality is a worse sin than any other sin.

True religion told me to trust God and people and not my own instincts and it cost me everything I had inside. I have healed a great deal - I am still spiritual and I don\'t deny or disrespect anyone else their belief\'s. I just think true religion is an oxymoron. To me personally religion as an organization is there to control others and almost never for the other\'s benefit. Religion - true or organized has been historically mixed with politics to control people and it continues to this day. I am not a proponent of religion but I know that people say the desire to spread religion has spread civilization. What I believe is that people\'s spirituality was manipulated by religion and politics to disrespect, displace, and eradicate many, many indigenous people.

I don\'t really follow. Can you take a moment and explain what’s oxymoronic about these?

“YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? (Matthew 5:43-46)

\"But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. Do not be lying to one another. Accordingly, [] clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also. But, besides all these things, [clothe yourselves with] love, for it is a perfect bond of union.\" - Colossians 3:8,9, 12-14.

Maybe it isn\'t an oxymoron exactly but it is contradictory to me in that I believe the practice of our spiritual beliefs in an organized religion doesn\'t generally end up in people as a mass truly practicing their beliefs.

I\'d not bother arguing with maxximiliann. I\'ve encountered many just like him. Their minds are closed to ideas like yours which are different than their own. Their only interest is in supporting their own ideas and trying to disprove yours. To me they are the best proof of all why to avoid religion in the first place. You and I can discuss issues with open minds. Theirs are trapped in religious dogma and scripture. Quote this, quote that, blah, blah, blah...

I so agree with you! I am no longer wasting time debating with maxximiliann,I finally realised that it could no longer be considered a reasonable debate for the reasons you elicited above.

@Search

Happy Sunday!

A correction, if I may. My mind is open to truth but certainly closed to the acceptance of falsehoods. As such, before I accept any idea its proponent bears the burden of proving it is an objective truth, follow?

@Heavy

Tell me something, do you believe the earth is flat or that all the other celestial bodies in our solar system revolve around it?

So you think it\'s true, for instance, that it\'s objectively morally good to rape a little girl to death?

On what evidence do you derive your philosophy from?

@Jenvice

So you\'re saying a group which sedulously practices these Bible principles aren\'t really practicing them?

How so? Please elaborate.

@ maxximillian - I will no longer discuss this with you - as you see my attempts to discuss as rude and uncalled for. I had no desire to offend you and apologize that my attempts to discuss your opinions was offensive to you. Have a great day I leave you with what you already have and seem to want to take away from others - the right to believe whatever you choose to believe.

@Jenvice

I accept your apology :)

@Jenvice

More importantly, if anyone wants to believe the moral equivalent of \"3-2=5,748\" that\'s their choice and I respect it.

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If I may make an observation, it appears you're concept of love is more inline with the notion of sentimentality. True love, after all, obligates us to always do the right thing and uphold what is just no matter the consequences whereas sentimentality doesn't.

I've kindly warned you of the impending calamity about to befall mankind so that you too can prepare and warn your loved ones. What could be more loving than that? :)

Hang on a sec, are you insinuating Christ Jesus was a bigot?

No Jesus was not a bigot, but a lot of so called Christians are!

So, if I understand you correctly, those who sedulously abide by his teachings are not bigots either, yes?

Bigots DO NOT abide by Christ teachings,if they did they would not condemn Homosexuals.

So you are saying Christ Jesus was a bigot!

Please, read my answers carefully,I said that bigots DO NOT follow Christ\'s teachings of unconditional love.

This is yet another example of why you should pursue a more intellectual and less perfunctory study of the Bible.

Had you done so you would have realized Christ Jesus enthusiastically promoted God\'s inimical views on homosexuality.

Concordantly, then, you\'re denouncing Christ - the greatest man who ever lived - as a bigot.

You\'ve got gall, I\'ll give you that much ...

CHRIST JESUS DOES NOT CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALS,where do you get that chestnut from?

As for gall YOU are past master at it!

And you persist in telling me that I called Christ a bigot when I did nothing of the sort.YOU decided I called Christ a bigot I DIDN\"T

You do know that Jesus was a Jew, right? As such, he upheld the Mosaic Law which contained this proscription from God:

\"You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.\" -Leviticus 18:22 (cf. Leviticus 20:13; Jude 7)

In fact, he himself taught, \"“Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”\" - Matthew 7:4-6

Given your expressed condemnation for those who decry homosexual conduct, you\'ve, albeit inadvertently, also condemned Jesus as a bigot.

Now what?

Now you can go reread Romans 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

I do not disagree with you that the scriptures classifies same sex activity as a sin but it also classifies eating pork or chicken and dumplings as a sin. There are I believe over 600 sins listed in the Old Testament and I think personally the point was to let us all know none of us was perfect. None of us should judge another but rather judge one\'s self. Like the girl noted in the second video we are commanded to love one another.
I am not sure you even watched he video because I think she was talking to Christians. It might be worth a second look.

@Jenvice

You are grossly mistaken. I do not practice the depraved sin of homosexuality.

This remark is inappropriate.

You are grossly mistaken if you see a difference in sinfulness when you are approaching God. Of course, there are varying degrees of anything, but the Bible which you keep referring to says if you sin you are apart from God and need a Savior. It doesn\'t matter if that sin is homosexuality or a white lie.

@Jenvice

You\'re conflating the definitions of wilful sin and inherited sin: http://bit.ly/1a5IGl7

Homosexual behavior is a depraved act of wilful sin and one which I do not practice.

Jesus taught, "For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings, sexual immorality (πορνεῖαι) [.] All these wicked things come from within and defile a man."-Mark 7:21,23 (Bracket mine.)

Further along we find: “Φεύγετε τὴν πορνείαν. πᾶν ἁμάρτημα ὁ ἐὰν ποιήσῃ ἄνθρωπος ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματος ἐστιν· ὁ δὲ πορνεύων εἰς τὸ ἴδιον σῶμα ἁμαρτάνει.” -1 Corinthians 6:18

"Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin that a man may commit is outside his body, but whoever practices sexual immorality is sinning against his own body."

“ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι θεοῦ βασιλείαν οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν; Μὴ πλανᾶσθε· οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται οὔτε κλέπται οὔτε πλεονέκται, οὐ μέθυσοι, οὐ λοίδοροι, οὐχ ἅρπαγες βασιλείαν Θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν.” - 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

“Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.”

Note that these passages use conjugations of the term πορνεία. What is πορνεία?


The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
πορνεία
Strong's Number: 4202

Transliterated Word - Porneia - Phonetic Spelling - por-ni'-ah
Definition:
Illicit sexual intercourse -
1.1 adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1.2 sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1.3 sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,


As you can see, with a basic understanding of the Koine term πορνεία, it's easy to see what is and is not godly sexual behavior in our Creator's eyes.

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I wouldn't expect you to give the Bible the creedence it merits. After all, you've never even read it.

Given the evidence I've shared for it's preternatural authorship though ...

because I don\'t subscribe to it does not mean I am not familiar with it.

As I\'ve demonstrated throughout, it\'s not enough to have a perfunctory understanding of what the Bible actually teaches.

Especially since Christ Jesus was the greatest man who ever lived.

Most of your replies show how hard to try to discredit those who do not buy into your beliefs.

You misapprehend. These are not my beliefs for I did not author the Bible. As I\'ve already evinced, God is its author.

Your quarrel is with him, not me.

I do not go along with your convictions and the way you handled this debate certainly would not inspire me to warm up to your beliefs.It seems that you got very fundamental ideas from the bible and that you concentrate more on condemnation than love.I did not recognise the teachings of Christ Jesus in your responses while this debate was going on.You are intolerant and try to discredit anyone who does not agree with you totally.You use words to obfuscate issues and try to confuse.It is impossible to have a fair argument with you.I have had the same experience with the Jehovah witnesses who came uninvited on my doorstep.This is what put a lot of people off religion,the intolerance and arrogance I sense from you.I think we have come to the end of the debate,lets just say that we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I\'m sorry you\'ve been finding it so challenging to follow along. But, please, tell me where you\'re stuck and I\'ll do my utmost to clarify :)

One last reply to square things off. I was not challenged by the debate but I came to realise that what could no longer be considered a reasonable exchange had to come to an end.

I smell your fear. Had you never considered the possibility that your worldview could be a bit off-center?

And yours aren\'t?

And have your nose tested,you smell nothing, I am quite comfortable with my convictions.

@Berangere

You unlovingly promote the murder of the unborn while I advance our Creator\'s loving standards which value the lives of these. If my loving worldview is off-center the so is God\'s because I abide by his.

And you are so steeped in the \"scriptures\" that you miss what really happens within humanity.You are blinded to the suffering of others.You just follow a formula and it is called \"the bible\".

I smell your fear... You wrote that? Regardless of the untenable theistic argument one thing is clear Max: you are an ***.

And I\'d like to also point out that I\'m no more intolerant than you are. After all, we both abhor the same things, no?

I have been following and participating in this thread and I just LOVE this comment. My favorite line is: "You use words to obfuscate issues and try to confuse." Perfect description of Max's tactics. Reminds me of a great adage: "When you are right stick to the issue, when you are wrong incite, condemn and confuse." Remind you of anyone?

Berangere is a beloved child of God just like you and though her writing explores her beliefs and those of others she always seems kind and without intent to offend.

Jesus broke many of the rules and interpretations held by both leading Jewish Sects of that time. He also lectured on a great deal of God\'s Word in what I think was an attempt to clarify the intent of scripture. Both the Pharisees and the Sadducees disagreed with him. For example: Mark 2:16 \"And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

I am sure it was the Religious rulers of His day and time that conspired with and/or manipulated the political leader that sent Jesus to the Cross. Reference Matthew 26 \"\"And while He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up, accompanied by a great multitude with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and elders of the people . . And Jesus said to him, \"Friend, do what you have come for.\" Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.\"

Think about that for a minute. Religious leaders conspired with the political leaders to get rid of Jesus.

@Jenvice

What Jesus did was re-establish the preeminence of true religion over false. His modern day sedulous followers do the same.

I know what Jesus did and I think he would tell you to be kind and nice to Berangere because He loves her.

Very good point,jenvice!

@Jenvice

As you can see, Berangere is only nice to you because you believe as she does. Where you to respectfully challenge her beliefs you\'d get the horns, as I have.

I did not encounter much respect toward me in your challenge.

You are in fact quite wrong. To be honest I do not know the details of her beliefs nor does she know the details of mine. She is kind and nice because she is - and you sir come off as judgmental.

Maybe you need reassurance:

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1 John 3:20

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If you knew I was going to say that, why did you say what you did?

Because it is the kind of reply you would give to justify your point of view,but it would not stop me expressing MY point of view.

Noooooo, it\'s the type of rejoinder one should expect when one presents a sophistic argument.

Actually, your moral compass is skewed according to our Creator. He is, and rightfully so, the locus of all objective moral values and duties.

Yes, if you wish to blindly believe.

Now who\'s being facetious? I just gave you a sampling of a body of **evidence** that led me to the natural conclusions I hold to be true.

How is that \"blind\" belief?

How do you know my moral compass is skewed according to our creator,did our creator tell you? it is skewed according to you!

@Berangere

As per Exodus 20:13; 21:22, 23. Our Creator values the lives of the unborn but you don\'t.

I would say that qualifies as a serious flaw with your moral compass.

So I am immoral because I do not agree with your set of beliefs? To know right from wrong and to be moral one has to adhere to YOUR beliefs and follow the guidance of your religion?

@Berangere

The matter is not as trivial as you represent it since I have neither the right nor authority to grant eternal life.

Your quarrel is with your Creator. It is to him which we are all accountable to.

I\'m just the humble messenger and the message is the Bible.

So you believe God is in everyone of us,God is not a separate entity from His creation?

Yes, we are having a right ding dong!

Now I get it!.

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Since you claim you know right from wrong, your characterization of Jehovah's Witnesses as "intolerant" is unctuous since it's clear you don't tolerate the fervent beliefs of pedophiles, murderers, misogynists or child abusers.

Pedophiles, murderers,misogynists and child abusers are WRONG,we don\'t need religion to make us aware of that,no one should tolerate what is WRONG.

It appears you missed the thrust of my rejoinder. Since you express intolerance for these, and rightly so, your criticism of Jehovah\'s Witnesses for their sedulousness (which you derided as intolerance) is wholly unctuous. Follow?

if you want to call intolerance,sedulousness well so be it.It seem you do not want to recognise nor accept that some Christian teachings can be harmful.

And not just in the catholic church.

Thing is, you\'ve already demonstrated your moral compass is less than reliable. As such, you\'re going to have to back up your arguments with more than just your say so.

My moral compass is less than reliable according to you!

@Tinker

You forgot to add, \"in my opinion.\" :)

And nobody drags anybody out anywhere. All those polite, kind, respectful, knowledgeable, well-dressed, young and old happily dedicate their free time, energy and personal financial resources to the great worldwide humanitarian work they partake in.

Here’s a remarkable demonstration of this effort at work as recorded in an international journal:

“In Liberia, Alex served as an altar boy in the Catholic Church. But at the age of 13, he joined a warring faction and became a notorious child soldier. To make himself brave in battle, he turned to witchcraft. Alex saw many of his companions killed, but he survived. In 1997 he met Jehovah’s Witnesses and found that they did not look down on him. Rather, they helped him to learn what the Bible says about violence. Alex left the army. As his faith began to grow, he followed the Bible command: “Let him turn away from what is bad and do what is good; let him seek peace and pursue it.”—1 Peter 3:11.

Meanwhile, a former child soldier named Samson came through the town where Alex now lived. He had been a choirboy but in 1993 became a soldier and got involved in drug abuse, spiritism, and immorality. In 1997 he was demobilized. Samson was heading for Monrovia to join a special security force when a friend persuaded him to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses, and as a result, he developed a Bible-based faith. This gave him the courage to abandon his warlike ways. Both Alex and Samson now live peaceful and moral lives. Could anything but Bible-based faith make changes in lives that had been so brutalized?” - http://bit.ly/18WopZ0

Excuse me! spiritualism is not immoral so please do not lug it with immorality.And now who is being intolerant?

@Tinker

I. Again, you forgot to add \"in my opinion\".

II. And what humanitarian work do you regularly take part in?

I. Sure you do. You did so twice already.

II. Yeah, I really don\'t think regularly drinking yourself into a drunken stupor counts as humanitarian work. I could be wrong though, heh ehhhe :)

Well, THAT was inappropriate.

I think we are no longer having a debate,it is turning nasty!

I tend to agree.

And that remark was not very Christian.

@Tinker

You\'re not exactly an absolute stranger either Mr. \"I\'ve lost count of the number of hangovers I\'ve had.\"

Well said

I SO agree - and I couldn\'t have put it any better

@Berangere

The article fails to mention that Jesus also taught \"If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.\" - John 15:18,19

What do you suppose Christ intended to communicate with this?

He communicated what you wish him to communicate: that only a few are chosen and that they are not of this world and that the world hate them.I will say it again,God created US ALL,and God\'s love is unconditional,he loves ALL his creation unconditionally and He does not care which road we take so as to reach him..But not \"the God of the bible\" it seems.

@Berangere

If you truly believe that then you have a serious problem for you don\'t tolerate murderers, pedophiles, misogynists, child abusers, etc., etc.,

I knew you would say that,why am I not surprised?

Paedophiles and murderers however, are criminals in the secular sense. Misogyny though is \'just\' an attitude which without action is not

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I'll happily stop referring to abortion as murder as soon as you prove the murder of innocent children isn't murder. Until then, no dice.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that!

And so we arrive at the crux of the matter. You see, while it\'s true all healthy human beings are born with an innate moral sense, a conscience, it\'s clear it needs to be refined, calibrated, made more robust. If not, it becomes stunted, or worst, perverted such that evil actions (such as abortion) are perceived to be good and good ones viewed as evil.

This is why the eternal well-being and happiness of mankind is inextricably bound to the objective moral values and duties lovingly furnished to us by our Creator. Without them there is nothing to protect our conscience from being disoriented or corrupted.

Tragically, Atheism corrodes and destroys this protection leaving its adherents stranded in moral ambivalence. This naturally explains why the overwhelming majority of serial murderers, rapists, totalitarians and other sadists have been atheists.

OK,then how do you know the bible was inspired by God,You were told so and chose to believe it.In the old testamnent God kills a lot of people,mostly \"infidels\"like the Egyptians.God created us all,not just some, and if God is Love then he Loves all nations,all his creation,so what make you so sure the Bible is the \"word \" of GOD and not the writing of MEN with agendas?

I. Here\'s a sampling of the body of evidence that led me to that natural conclusion: http://bit.ly/14Ckccl

II. Correction. God justly executed murderers, rapists, thieves, the depraved, liars, pedophiles, etc., etc., ... in other words, evildoers: http://bit.ly/11rGfOK

he also had the angel of death kill the first born male child of Egyptian families.These children were innocent this was a vengeful act on the part of the God of the bible.

Again, you\'re being arbitrary and reductive. Read Exodus 12.

Regardless,he had them killed.

No he didn\'t. Their parents refused to take the same necessary measures other judicious parents took to save their children.

Your animadversion, then, is grossly misplaced.

OK,did God still have to have the unprotected children killed? couldn\'t he have shown mercy?

God does not lie. As such those who obstinately refused to heed his warnings brought their calamity upon their own heads.

Interestingly enough God has again warned of another calamity set to take place in the very near future. He “has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth.” (Acts 17:31)

Will you heed this warning or follow the same course as the ancient Egyptians who suffered accordingly? http://bit.ly/1foe4bx

I do not take the bible seriously to me it is a fable,not to be taken literally.And knowing how some Christians are turned into bigot by following its \"teachings\" I much rather be an Egyptian!

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Any medical professional worth their salt knows that bloodless medicine is safer, healthier and cheaper than it's counterpart. So, as it turns out, abiding by sc<x>riptural principles on the misuse of blood are of great benefit to us. How loving of God to teach us these things through the Bible, no?

I guessed you were referring to blood transfusions,in some case of great blood loss ONLY the transfusion of packed cells will save the person\'s life,other blood products will be of little use on their own.
And by the way,little Ruth died as the result of her father\'s procrastination to allow the blood transfusion to proceed.And as it says in the link I gave you, there were NO blood transfusions at the time the bible was written,so the bible verse could not have been referring to it.

I. You claim to believe in reincarnation so I imagine God\'s promise of a resurrection to those who are loyal to him is well within your grasp. This includes not only those who unfortunately die as a result of substandard medical care but those who are martyred such as those Jehovah\'s Witnesses who perished during the Rwandan Genocide or under totalitarian/authoritarian regimes.


II. Your exegesis of Acts 15 is reductive. Tell me, when you eat a meal how do it\'s nutrients get transported to your body\'s cells?


III. More importantly, since when is infecting someone with TRALI, HIV, Human T-lymphotropic virus, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, Chagas,West Nile virus, Sepsis or causing them to die from Acute Kidney failure, Intravascular Coagulation or a Hemolytic reaction loving?

People who got infected by blood transfusions were not deliberately knowingly infected,unfortunate things do happen and medicine learns about these things and take the appropriate measures.Now bood transfusions are quite safe.And blood transfusions have saved many, many lives.
It seems you try by all means to discredit the practice of blood transfusion to back up your own religious beliefs.

And you refuse to accept that bloodless medicine is the gold standard of medical treatment.

Regardless, one way or another we will all meet our eventual demise. Thing is, my relationship with my loving Creator is such that, so long as I remain loyal to him, he will resurrect me like he did his Son, Christ Jesus, after he was murdered and I will enjoy eternal life on Paradise earth.

Now why in the world would I do anything to jeopardize such an incredible prize?

According to the bible Christ willingly gave his life to save us\" poor sinners\",but we are still called sinners by the church and other Christian religions.
As far as I know having worked in nursing for 41 years, blood transfusion remains a very efficient and valued treatment in all areas of medicine,oncology and surgical procedures.

I. You\'re conflating the various definitions of sin: http://bit.ly/1a5IGl7

II. How does that change the fact that bloodless medicine is the gold standard of medical treatment and, unlike it\'s counterpart, is available affordably the world over? http://bit.ly/18qcF0k

it is NOT bloodless medicine we are talking about here ,it is your RELIGIOUS convictions.

Which are of eternal benefit to me and mine. What\'s your point?

My point is that you will go to any length to justify your religious beliefs.We are not talking about the pros and cons of blood transfusion, here we are talking about your religious convictions.

Would you prefer I abjure reality?

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I don't follow. Can you please show me what's so cruel, vengeful, petty, prejudiced and hateful about the following:

“YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? (Matthew 5:43-46)

"But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. Do not be lying to one another. Accordingly, [] clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also. But, besides all these things, [clothe yourselves with] love, for it is a perfect bond of union." - Colossians 3:8,9, 12-14.

Yes,but has that advise from Colossians 3:8,9 been put in practice? I think not!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=IME_YPmCXHU

Your contention, then, is with those who practice false religion, not with God, the Bible nor Christians. Why, then, throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Then why do a great majority of Christians behave as those portrayed in my stories? I have met and experienced so called Christianity first hand and seen how although of what is said in the bible ,that you just posted to me ,they choose to be judgemental and condemning for the most,they seem to concentrate more on that saying in the bible\"homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God\" than they do on the love and acceptance I just read above.The bible is full of contradictions, and it seems a lot more hate is fuelled by bible teachings than love.

I. It\'s simple really. Anyone who behaves contrary to the Bible\'s teachings and claims to be a Christian is as much a Christian as an Atheist.

II. Based on your sharp criticisms of the Bible, is it safe to assume you\'ve read it in its entirety?

And, yes, Christians do put this biblical advice into practice: http://bit.ly/193MAWW

Another example where following bible teachings to the letter can do tremendous harm.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=bible%20verses%20against%20blood%20transfusion%20for%20jehova%20witnesses&amp;source=web&amp;cd=2&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CDgQFjAB&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gotquestions.org%2Fblood-transfusions.html&amp;ei=x-YfUuzrEaewiAf8koDABg&amp;usg=AFQjCNEKRwsnpn7MmSX0b69P_F4wTUI5eg

More to the point, on what objective moral basis do you dare condemn anyone\'s values?

I am not condemning anyone\'s values, I am just against \"values\" that cause misery and apply inordinate control in people\'s lives and take away their freedom of choice ,\"values \"which fill people with guilt so as to make them more easily manipulated by those who would beneficiate from it.

I take it you\'re also just as appalled by abortions too, correct?

Based on your sharp criticisms of the Bible, is it safe to assume you\'ve read it in its entirety?

I am familiar with the bible but have better and more rewarding things to do than continue to refer to it and make it the centre of my life and my sole interest.

No,I am not appalled by abortions, women are free to make a choice,some children should never be born in certain situations,what appal me is child abuse!

You don\'t have a problem with infanticide but balk when someone refuses to accept dangerous, substandard medical treatment?

How precisely is that loving?

Abortion Is not infanticide,this is a spurious statement!,and where does substandard medical treatment comes in?

Oh no? Please explain how the murder of innocent children is not infanticide.

As far as your second question is concerned, I\'m perplexed by it. I thought you were a medical professional. Is that not the case?

Yes, I am a medical professional, but you have not answered my question, to which substandard medical treatment are you referring to?

And please stop referring to abortions as \"the murder of innocent children\" because it is NOT so.Why not concentrate on the children who are already born and are being abused and even murdered in some cases?

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I loved the middle video....and like the woman in it, Christianity doesn't fit my heart. Oxo

Such a pity that I can\'t open the link to see the videos as they were blocked by the local fire wall....

I wish you could view them too, slund. Hugs

I am sorry you could not view them.It seems many things are being blocked from you and it is a shame.

Many western websites such as YouTube ,Facebook ,Twitter,etc were all blocked by The Great Fire Wall which was set by Chinese Government seven years ago. However,fortunately, EP is not among them.So I\'m thankful for that.

I hope they never find out about EP,they obviously do not know about it.

Yeah,they don\'t know about it,most of the people in my country even never heard of EP.So in order to keep it safe always I\'m not gonna tell anyone about it,regardless of my sharing personality.

Yes, this is a wise move!

Always want to be a wise man ;)

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It certainly would seem reasonable for religions, instead of talking about love, to lead by example.

Yes it would be,but may be when it comes to religion,leading by example is not what it is about,a saying I clearly remember about the church and its leaders \"Do as I say,but not as I do\" Talk is cheap and easy and putting some things in practice,like unconditional love,does not always suit certain agendas.

Seems you are right on.

“They refuse any form of violence and without rebelling put up with the many trials inflicted on them because of their beliefs . . . How different the world would be if we all woke up one morning firmly decided not to take up arms again, whatever the cost or the reason, just like Jehovah’s Witnesses!” - “Andare Alle Genti”


“I have come to the conclusion that if Jehovah’s Witnesses were the only ones living on the earth, wars would cease to exist, and the only duties of the policemen would be to control traffic and to issue passports.” - “Gyűrű”

“Suffice it to say that if all the world lived by the creed of the Jehovah Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king!”- “The Sacramento Union”

“The work of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the revival and re-establishment of the primitive Christianity practised by Jesus and his disciples . . . All are brothers.” - “The Encyclopedia Canadiana”

The Encyclopedia of Early Christianity states: “The early church saw itself as one new humanity in which previously hostile groups, Jews and Gentiles, could live together in one body of peace.” Jehovah’s Witnesses also are a peace-loving international brotherhood—truly a new world society. (Ephesians 2:11-18; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 3:13) When the chief security officer of the Pretoria Show Grounds in South Africa saw how Witnesses of all races met there peaceably as convention delegates, he said: “Everyone was and is courteous, people speaking nicely to one another, the attitude displayed the past few days—it all testifies to the calibre of the members of your society, and that all live together like one happy family.” - “They Keep On Walking in the Truth”

I remember having Jehovah witnesses on my doorstep trying to convinced me they were the only true followers of God\'s teachings.That does not show much tolerance!

And I don\'t need to keep quoting from the bible, life as a nurse for 41 years,in General, Psychiatric,Forensic Nursing and Midwifery has taught me plenty about life and the human condition.I worked in the emergency department for years,I have been \"at the coal face\" I base my beliefs on what life has taught me and my own personal experiences of life, I do not need help form the bible!

Ah, Berangere. How I appreciate a person who speaks from personal knowledge and realization instead of sounding like a parrot.

Berangere, It hadn\'t come into my mind to call this type of proselyting what it is -- intolerance. And intolerance seems to me to be a long ways from God\'s love which we find within.

I could not agree more!

Ladies, if I may, would not your views on pedophiles, rapists, murderers, misogynists and abortionists also be construed as intolerant?

SIR,DO YOU KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG?

Do you?

Since you\'re so tolerant it appears anything anyone does is ok with you ...

Now you are being facetious,I certainly do not tolerate evil in any shape or form,I know right from wrong you do not have to be religious or follow any religion to know right from wrong!

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People in my country have quite a wide range beliefs.Some are Christian,some are Buddhist (Speaking of Buddhism,there are some branches of it,differ each other). But one common thing is most of the people who have beliefs are aged people.However most of the people in my county are atheists. Especially, for the new generations,they almost have no beliefs.I don't know all these religions so well.But I do think people should have their own beliefs.My grandfather is a Christian and the only Christian in my big family.He believed god will bring light and peace into his life.I not quite got it at that time,I thought the god stayed in his heart ,combined with his soul and his soul has been purified by god's willing which may embodied in Holy Bible or many other things ,no matter what form it was ,the same spirit stayed in it.So in my ignorant opinion, god was just another version of himself just like the embodiment of his been purified mind. From that perspective ,I think everyone has his own god stayed in their soul ,god is another version of himself,when you followed your heart ,you followed the guide of your god.

Very true,God or the universal force as some people like to call it,is within every one of us and a force within nature too.All creation contains that force.But sadly many religions have distracted us from that fact making God a separate entity all powerful and judgemental of his own creation in many ways.This teaching separates us from the source and also some religions like Christianity calls us sinners,tells us we were born sinners that need to repent and will then be saved by God from damnation.A Christian friend of mine actually believed that God WAS a person! And nothing could shake her from that belief and to say that God lived within ourselves was a \"heresy\" to her.

I respect people for whatever they choose to believe at a good intent.However,when we we were at school ,we\'ve been taught that we should be materialism rather than idealism as we are a socialism society and leading the way to communism,we take Karl Heinrich Marx&amp;Friedrich Von Engels‘s theory in their book named The Communist Manifesto as guiding principles.Also we\'ve adjusted some of the chapters to fit our native culture , tradition and the present situation.So,maybe that can be a main reason which make nearly all of us new generations become atheist.In the other hand we become kinda free-minded to choose what to believe.But,you know,I do think even the Great Man Karl Heinrich Marx has his own beliefs except this we called Communism ,we just don\'t know yet....

@Slund

Happy Friday my friend!

I wonder, did they also teach you about the millions murdered under the regimes of Danton, Lenin, Sanger, Than Shwe, Stalin, Mengele, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ceausescu, Honecker, Castro, Pol Pot, Broz Tito, Milosevic, Bonaparte and Mussolini?

They didn\'t teach all of what you\'ve mentioned ,just some of them .But we\'ve learned the history in another way in library or Internet.The government want us to accept that the communism is the best regime.Though our country is regarded as a socialism society,most of the people in my country think it is more like a capitalist country.We\'re not sure when we can reach our ultimate goal,the communism. Politics in my country can be very complicated and bloody especially in the old times.

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I was going to debate you on this when I read the title. After I read your post though I decided I would lose, so I am going to be quiet for once : )

There are loving religious people,I agree, but it is the bigots and unloving ones that do a lot of damage and often irreversible harm.

Well I have been very deep in the religious community at one point in my life. Many religions preach love, but at some point they want you to conform. Hate the sin, but love the sinner is a common theme, but ultimately you need to follow their teaching.

Yes, sadly they remain intolerant of other ways to reach God.

Yes, yes and yes

"Love one another" has no rules to go with it.

To love in all it's forms and ever more to go.

Peace and Love

Thank you for your comment.

@Diamond

You say, \"\"Love one another\" has no rules to go with it.\" I assume this also applies to the love a ********* has for his/her underage lovers, yes?

I think you have missed the point.

How so?

No way

Love of life
Love to be alive
Love the joy of being alive
Love that grows
Love of a mother for her child (Father)

We are not talking about lovers - you added this WHY??

You made the claim that \"\"Love one another\" has no rules to go with it.\" I wanted to see if that was true or not.

Jesus loves us all as we are - he does not judge. He is love and love is why we are here.

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