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I Think This Is Obvious

one. how many individual soldiers to you know who decided right i am going in the army to fight for my country ?
two. how many do you know went in to boost their ego ?
three. how is promoting war heroic ? if their was no soldiers no-one would feel at threat. having soldiers/army in a country makes other countries paranoid and wary.
four. what is heroic about risking your families heart ache over a war (Iraq, Afghanistan) thats debatable has no concern of ours at all ? you go away from home from your family and children while they have to sit at home worried sick in case something happens to you.
five. its about time people stopped being phony and pretending that been some action man is heroic and beneficial to the world its not and it never has been its caused more unnecessary pain than almost anything in the world. putting people at fear and danger.
Johnny88 Johnny88 22-25, M 26 Responses Jan 23, 2011

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My dad was in the military. I don't know what he did, that was before I came along. I don't consider him a hero for that, not in any way. He was just a dude whose job it was to be in the military. He was a hero for something else though. One evening he came into the house with blood all over his face and my mom and I were like what the heck happened! Apparently my cat was on the other side of the street meowing pitifully and my dad went over to rescue him. Just as he got back on our side of the street a car suddenly went by and startled the cat who then freaked out and basically used my dad's face as a springboard! We laughed about it whenever we remembered it. It's a small thing, he didn't need to do it, no one asked him to, he just went out of his way to help a little creature in need.

That is the rambling of inexperience. It is a fantasy. There are people in the world who have been fighting the west for thousands of years. They have sworn an oath that they will never stop their holly ware against us until they conquer us and your passive rhetoric will do nothing to change that. The fact is that if we did not have a military presence we would be invaded and forced into subservience, or killed.<br />
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I agree that a world without war would be a utopian place to live, but the best we can hope for in the real world is to try to hold on to our freedom. Soldiers do not go out to kill innocents. Innocents are sometimes killed by circumstance of their proximity. As unfortunate as it is it cannot be avoided..

Spoken like a true apologist. Look up the history of the middle east. Not from faux news maybe from the view point of an Iraqi or Iranian. You would get a different viewpoint, over the last century it was the West who was the violent oppressor either directly or by proxy. How about that experience. If your hometown had been decimated by a bomb or by tanks than you might have a different opinion (maybe like the French). I'm sure you haven't so it ok to bomb the S,&amp;@ out somebody else's country. The U.S. is the only country in the world to use the atomic bomb as a weapon. Do you really think anybody is going to try anything. Soldiers make a choice, just because they have a uniform on doesn't make it right. If they accidentally kill a civilian they still killed someone. If it were China in the U.S. stealing oil and coal you would have a different opinion. Your argument reeks of sociopathy, ever heard of the golden rule. Yes you can avoid war- Dont participate in it.

There is no honor in joining a cause that kills innocents in the name of education or welfare. The troops are welfare ******. Too many young people are eager to join for the "free" education and to kill innocents to receive. There is no such thing as free, period. Hell no, there is not honor in that.

heroism-refers to characters who, In the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, displays courage and the will for self sacrifice-that is heroism- . You may be opinionated, but you don't know the meaning of the word!<br />
1) I was a soldier who enlisted In the army to protect his country, and I knew many others<br />
2) If you came with an ego ,It was checked at the door.<br />
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I spent 4years 2months and 17days. I was In the Infantry, I am not a hero, I didn't spend any war time. But these men and woman serving our country as we speak deserve more respect then you will ever know! And know this,their not asking you for anything! let alone a worthless opinion.

I'm sorry you were manipulated into thinking you served your country. I didn't ask you to, but I helped pay your salary none the less. I don't have to respect murder and armed robbery (oil). Sorry.

i didnt say he overcame evil . i said he took out the british raj without violence. how is non violence a weakness ? that shows no fear whatsoever . it showed he had no fear of death. His ob<x>jective was not whether he would die or not. <br />
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whether people like him or not that is just speculation no one person is ultimately liked or agreed with by everyone, who gives a **** about that. the fact is he give india independence from foreigners that were in someone elses country

That's it... "who says"? What kind of a response is that? We were discussing the fact that some people view passiveness as weakness and that you have to be prepared to protect yourself, or others, because there are people who thirst for violence and you give me the example of Gandhi as one who overcame evil using non-violent means. I explained that he did not overcome evil. Overcome in that sense means to defeat.<br />
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If evil rises up and kills you then you have not overcome evil. He triumphed over evil for a short time, but he did not overcome it. Also a great many people in his own country hated him for what he did. When you are a leader of a country you have a responsibility to the people of that country and he threw his people under the bus, as it were. He gave, what is now, Pakistan to the Muslims and he allowed Muslims to live and own property in India. The government of Pakistan, on the other hand deported all of the Hindis from Pakistan and seized their monies and property, so they lost everything.

who says ?

No pinkpuff I do not think gang bangers are heroes. I know they are people filled with evil who prey upon the weak and commit violent acts, including murder, just to demonstrate their power. Soldiers, at least most of them, are not like that. They are doing a job because they are compelled to do it and they stand their ground when the chips are down. <br />
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I see you watched the movie. Congratulations. Gandhi however, was shot to death and Indira was killed by a suicide bomber. Does that sound like he overcame violence? He didn't overcome anything of the sort. <br />
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What he did was admirable and he accomplished a great deal with his non violent approach. The whole Hindi religion teaches non violence. Every Swami in India teaches non violence and it works for them, however the Bhagavad Gita, one of the main sc<x>riptures of the Hindu religeon, is a conversation between Krishna and Arjuno on the night before a great battle. Arjuno doesn't want to go out and fight the battle, because he will have to kill, but Krishna tells him that he must because it is a battle between good and evil, so even the peace loving Hindus recognize there is a time when we must fight..<br />
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While we are talking about India I have to say I have never seen people in any other part of the world who live in such absolute poverty and are still happy, but violent people exist anyway and they are not swayed by love and good and brotherhood etc.<br />
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Where did you read anything suggesting that I am trying to change gang bangers? I collect facts and make decisions whether to arrest, or not arrest. It is the job of the court to change the behavior of offenders. If someone needs help I will do what I can to help them, but I am not foolish enough to think I can change anyone.

its about setting an example i think . its like gandhi for instance his whole country believed violence would be the only option . but he knew the truth . he seen deeper than society in general . <br />
he took out the whole british maj without laying one finger on anyone.<br />
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if someone says oh they are using violence so i may aswel ,then what do you end up with ? more violence. <br />
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if you are trying to change these gangbangers then you will always be disappointed but setting an example not just to them but to absolutely everyone. showing that violence is only beneficial to a certain extent but gandhi showed it was unnecessary. and just for power the british still used violence against a man that never harmed anyone just for power in a country that isnt even theres.<br />
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you said it sounds good on paper , its not about it sounding good it is about setting an example. if we set an example that violence is the be all end all then guess what generations and generations will be bred with the same belief system. things dont work miraculously things do take time and in the short you will get the violent ones who will think of this as a weakness but only a small minority because how many people really want violence ? people only use violence because it is all they know they dont know how to love, they regard people as enemies they dont see the whole picture. they dont see that if we continue to use violence then they will be no end to violence. they dont believe that they can be a world without war. but it is only us that is creating war. why do we have war?

I see. So by your definition of the word "hero", the gang bangers are heroes.

That sounds really good on paper, but in reality it is not like that at all. I do not abuse the people I arrest, but people, especially gang bangers don't care. Knowing that my gang is tougher than theirs is what they understand and it is what keeps me safe. It has nothing to do with my attitude towards them. Gang bangers will hurt their best friend if they are told to do so by gang leaders and they are often told to do just that.<br />
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If I give them the opportunity they will jump me, even though I have treated them fairly. I have to be vigilant all of the time. It is an attitude completely foreign to most people and it is an attitude that people cannot seem to grasp. We are taught if we treat people with kindness they will respond in kind. That is not true with some groups of people.<br />
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Thousands of people have been killed over the years in gangs like the Mexican Mafia and the Nuestra Familia because of an argument over a pair of shoes and that feud continues to this day. As difficult as it is for you to understand some people do not respect kindness. They see it as being weak. I wish they would. Then I could go to work and not have to be so concerned about being hurt, or killed on duty.<br />
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It is the same with peoples of the East. They have hated people of the west for thousands of years. They don't care about how kind they are. They just want them dead and we represent the people of the west, along with many other countries. We are not talking about all people. There are good people in all countries and religious orientations. We should be kind to them, but while we are being kind to them we still have to carry a big stick to fight off the people who do not respect kindness.

we need to show them that we are not just after their oil , we are not just against them we need to show them that we not going to tolerate violence towards our countries but and big but we need to change the relationship. we need to close the gap between them and us. we need to change this opposing attitude.<br />
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as a policemen/sheriff you should understand yourself if you arrest someone violently are they going to respect you if you kick them in the head while they on the floor handcuffed ? or if you arrest them and explain to them why you are arresting them arent most people going to respect you ?

how can you respect someone that is doing something that he doesnt even know why he is doing it ?<br />
how can you say every soldier is a hero deservedly , what about terrorists they overcome insurmountable odds ? are they heros and who are they heroes to ? if your killing innocent people whilst trying to get at the ones supposedly causing a problem ? <br />
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noone is full of hatred my friend if we going to have a decent debate about this cut the accusations and the assumptions lets look at the facts.<br />
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and noone is pointing the finger at anyone.<br />
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if we are to make a better world then isnt the next step moving away from violence ?? <br />
i admit every single person deserves some respect to a point but each person i see i dont see them as labels like soldiers or whatever i dont respect them for their title.<br />
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respect like you point out comes from realising that people are trying their best to be happy. But having said that respect doesn't mean you have to agree with what everyone does, and i cant believe people think violence is still a solution to our global problems. if it is protecting us which some of the Iraq war was then that is totally acceptable but our point is is that not all soldiers have it in their heart to do it for their country or doing it the the right reasons their intentions are wrong. and this isn't necessarily there point but my point is why should they be recognised as heroes and get loads of respect when their is far more people saving lives like doctors and helping the poor and helping people with mental health problems and trying to create a more sustainable earth for everyone. these are the right intentions. noone is saying we anti soldiers at all . you keep talking as if someone has said they hate soldiers . we do respect soldiers to a point but we saying why should they be singled out from everyone else as heroes ? <br />
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i agree to a certain point that the invasion of iraq could have positive outcomes they trained the iraqi army to defend their country ,they help develop the country but alot worse could come of it and one of them could be rebellion . if you attack a organisation that think the bloody crusade is still going on and that america are the enemies then attack just confirms their beliefs.

Yes that is right. Governments cause war. Governments produce suicide bombers. They are the war mongers. It is not for me to judge a man for his deeds. Soldiers are, for the most part, just people ordered into that situation and they do the best they can with the understanding they have. You people seem so full of hate and anger that you cannot really see. Being a hero is not about being on the right side of a cause, or on the wrong side. It is about the individual spirit and his/her courage to endure. <br />
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Why then can there not be courage and bravery on both sides of a conflict? Hate the conflict, or hate the governments who instigate wars, but give the individual who performs his duty courageously the respect he deserves. Then let God, or Karma, or whatever higher power you accept sort out the rest.<br />
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Lend a compassionate heart to anyone who has to endure the extreme hardships of life, soldiers, or not.<br />
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We are all in the same boat. We all want the same things. We all want to be happy and we all want love in our lives. Instead of standing on our soapbox pointing fingers we should be rolling up our sleeves and doing what we can to make the world better.

So it sounds like all the soldiers on each side of every war fit your criteria for being a hero, as do suicide bombers.

Yes I think anyone, kids in Africa, or anywhere else who can face overwhelming hardship and carry on bravely is a hero. It doesn't matter whether they consider themselves brave, or not. The act makes the hero and not the mind.<br />
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You are really off the wall with some of this. Much of what you brought up is part of the liberal/conservative debate and I am not going to get into that with you.<br />
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As far as Iraq is concerned we are not invaders in Iraq we are liberators and the vast majority of people in Iraq are supporters of what we are doing, however, if you actually researched that with an open mind you would already know that, but you do not do that and nothing I can say will have any affect on you. The kids who have to walk around injured and maimed is tragic, but nearly all of them were injured, killed, or whatever by the insurgents, who do not care about their lives, but then you don't research things so how will you know that. There are always civilian casualties and as tragic as that is it happens.<br />
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This whole conversation with you has been interesting, but is distasteful for me and I won't be writing any more. Have a great life.

right maldwin i can see what you getting at now. you see that soldiers are heroes because of the danger they are able to face and go through. you find that courageous and brave right ?there for you think they are deservedly called heroes ? <br />
so if that is the definition of hero is to overcome insurmountable odds and not waiver then i think absolutely everysingle human being is a hero. if a soldier is a hero and you think they are insurmountable odds ? think of the kids starving in africa ?? think of how brave they are ? but do they consider themselves brave ? no its survival for them , but do they walk around asking for praise ? think of the people in bolivia with no clean water? think of the people in the amazon who have to watch the capitalist destroy the rainforest they inhabit. think of the abused who have went through a life of hell and see the other side. think of the guy who sleeps on the street floor day in day out without a single complaint or excuse! think of the iraqi kids who have to watch foreign,alien soldiers invade their land and put them in fear! think of the iraqi kids who have to walk around limbless because they have been invaded and killed and severly injured for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them ????????? so rethink what a hero is my fellow human being

Good question. Let's talk civilly. People do things for many reasons. Some reasons are not as lofty as others. I think we agree here. Also being trained and actually doing the job are two entirely different things.<br />
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Not all soldiers are "heroes" on face value. Perhaps here we could define hero. A hero is simply a person who can face seemingly unsurmountable odds and not waiver. <br />
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Doesn't have to be combat, or even life threatening. In the case of soldiers when they are in combat they are in a place they, most likely, don't want to be. They are probably afraid much of the time, and still they do the job they are called upon to do. You cannot possibly understand this if you have not been in that situation yourself.<br />
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You have to give people the respect they earn. In the case of soldiers who do not see combat, perhaps hero is not the word to describe them, but they still do jobs that are important to the national security. <br />
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Often it is to rescue people and save lives. We cannot put a label on a group of people and say they are all bad, or that they are all good. Give respect to those who deserve it. I have been a cop for 37 years now and I don't like a lot of cops, but there are some who try to make a difference and I like and respect them.<br />
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As far as soldiers killing people is concerned they don't just go out and kill people. They kill people who are intent on killing them. That is not murder. If the combat situation is not honorable then it is the government who is corrupt and they alone should be held accountable.

it is pretty clear you are a coward and you try to justify your manhood by bashing others who are not. This is a ridicules discussion. These young soldiers are killed doing something they believe is good. It doesn't really matter if the government misleads them, It they believe it to be good then to them it is an honorable sacrifice and their death, though tragic should be reverenced and treated with compassion. You ought to be ashamed.

sheep who follow, how can they ever be heroes

Lets talk first about the hero question. I know the horrors of war and I know what it is to face death unwavering and do the job you were called on to do. I have seen it in my comrads and they are heros, especially the ones I left behind. Until you stand in those shoes you do not have the right to judge whether or not they are heroes. <br />
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You can bash the government all you want. I never said the government is interested in anything that benefit the people. I have no love for the government either. I think to a high degree they are all corrupt. However that doesn't mean that military power does not keep us free, or protect us from attack. There are countries in the world who would like nothing better than to invade, defeat, and enslave us and they are not about to change that desire. If we were weak militarily we would invite invasion and conquest and if you can't see that it is not me who is in denial.

Sorry maldwin but if you think the government cares at all about your freedom then it is you who lives in fantasyland.<br />
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You're right that there are governments that are out to kill and take; a prime example of such a government is that of the United States.<br />
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I also find it interesting that you consider someone who "simply goes and does what they are told" to be a hero.

to not have an army isnt to say we have to let everyone do as they please it just means everyone is alot less armed and dont hold a huge threat to everyone , if insurgents weren't supplied with ammunition then how would they be such a threat ? if insurgents and terrorists realised that we werent after them or that the crusade wasnt taking place, then dont you think that would be more powerful than putting a weapon in their hand and saying protect yourself ?

I agree with maidwin we need a strong deterrant but even if all countries decided to unilaterally give up soldiers the non-uniformed soldiers(terrorists,insurgents) would take over large swaths of territory and instill age old customs I.E. women as slaves and only a few to be educated children of ruling parties etc.Is that what you want my friend.<br />
I would like to see our troops de-militarialised and a uniformed peace corps set up as to get any where in the world and helping in natural disasters.But first we have to all get round the table and re-form the U.N. but thats still along way off.

It's almost psychotic to say you're defending yourself against "terrorists,insurgents" who, if not bombed, invaded, occupied, and dominated by puppet governments "would take over large swaths of territory. and instill age old customs I.E. women as slaves and only a few to be educated children of ruling parties etc." What territory is in danger? How have you helped anybody, including women by killing their children? And if you're concerned they might come over here and push us around with their "ruling parties" who hoard all the wealth and restrict education and opportunity to themselves then I'm afraid it's too late — they're already here.
As for "demilitarizing" troops by changing their uniforms and using them to replace the Peace Corps just as soon as the U.N. is reformed I don't see the difference. If you want to send teams of rescuers around the world, there no reason you couldn't do that right now! But soldiers kill people to carry out the political goals of governments.

ok my friend i stopped at soldiers dont promote war! if soldiers dont promote war by going to war then how better of an example can you put across that war is alright ?? please answer that ? <br />
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and i stopped again at if you think that it is not vital to our freedom to maintain military strength...etc etc.... <br />
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isnt this the exact view that keeps every single country in war and fearful of every other single country in the world ?<br />
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if there was no military in the world what on earth would you have to fear ?

Perhaps most military personnel do not join the service thinking "I am joining the military to fight for my country", but when the call comes they go just the same and they do fight and die for their country. That in itself is heroic. Soldiers do not promote war. They simply go and do what they are told.<br />
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Governments promote war and they alone should be held accountable. If you think it is not vital to our freedom to maintain military strength then you, my friend, live in fantasyland. It is our military strength that has kept the enemy off our soil. As tragic as it is that our young men and women must go and die, it saves lives.<br />
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There are governments and people whose very way of life is killing and taking. They have been that way for thousands of years and they are not about to change now. We must keep them afraid of attacking us, or our way of life will be in jeapordy. <br />
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in a perfect world war would not exist and you are right war causes heartache and devastation in the families of those who give up their life in war. This is not a perfect world and there are wolves at our doors that must be held at bay.<br />
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It seems to me that you are not a man of action and that makes you feel, in some way inferior and that is why you are spilling all this vitriol. This country needs men of peace as it needs men of action. Both have a vital role in keeping our country strong and both are heroes in their own right.<br />
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Be well

1. When a soldier goes to war legitamitely in order to protect the U.S. then they will have my respect. That is not the case now and hasn't been since WW2. You can choose to believe otherwise but you are choosing to be delusional.
2. To say that our military empire is responsible for keeping us safe is absolute garbage. The U.S. military's occupation of the middle east (Saudi Arabia), and support of Israel is the reason why we were attacked on 9/11. The U.S is the only country in history to use an atomic weapon (do you really think any other country would be stupid enough to try to invade).
3. Soldiers have a choice to follow orders. If a soldier chooses to participate in the invasion of a country (let's say Iraq), and chooses to shoot an Iraqi he is not a hero. He is a murderer who helped steal oil. Cassius Clay went to jail instead of going to Vietnam (he was a hero). A modern U.S. soldier who chooses to follow orders is responsible for his or her own actions. Real courage is standing up for what is right and the truth- not following orders.
4. To say that there has always been war and there is nothing that anybody can do about is absolute laziness. It is a response that should be expected from a status quo apologist. Any American holding this point of view clearly has no concept of "the golden rule" or of U.S. foreign policy. There are wolves at doors but a majority of those wolves are wearing American flags.

It may seem that somebody who doesn't support the military might not be a man of action, but we can be sure of one thing (the man has a conscience and a brain). If I were to break into a night gas station with a gun and steal gas I would go to jail. Just because somebody else does it with a uniform on doesn't make them a hero. Sometimes being a man of inaction is more heroic than being a man of action.