People Who Believe In God

  But I think I understand some of the reasons they do things...

Mostly in response to Daydreamer1's story, but also appropriate as a response to Choosenone who blocked me after I responded to a story he/she posted in "I don't believe in god". I encourage people to question my actions and motivations.

A few things, you begin with the assumption that Jesus’ name will bring either Fear or orgasmic pleasure…unfortunately this is not the case. There are many atheists such as myself who see Jesus as a man that somebody made up. I see Jesus as a character that many people have labelled as the sacrificial representative of Christianity, before him there were plenty of other sacrificial figureheads in other religions. I don’t want to do research on this right now, but I am willing to if anyone wants to claim he was unique in some way…he is as generic as other figureheads have been and still are in other religions. As for that pleasure you felt… It’s not surprising, when African voodoo practitioners are shown to convulse in ecstasy under the influence of their special brand of self-hypnosis, same for every other religion where they have put great effort into visualising and imagining their chosen deity and figurehead.

Almost like when I watch an old TV show with a character I really like, I feel emotionally tied with this character, but I do not think he/she is any more then fictional.

"His name is so powerful that it can bring the strongest man/woman to his/her knees, banish out evil spirits, heal the sick, repair the broken spirit, mend the broken hearted, comfort the afflicted, save us from the ultimate death. And that is just in his name. I can only imagine what He is going to do when He reveals Himself to us, whether it will be by death into life or death into death, or by his second coming."

It/he has done none of these things, http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ will ask some big questions. Without being pushy, please, test your faith and comment. Each time he’s saved you or healed you or bought you to your knees, there has been pain elsewhere, death elsewhere, and people yelling scorn to the heavens. You can choose any nice event and claim that God helped you do it by stealing your free-will and controlling you or other people into that situation, but while you think he helped you, there is someone else in extreme agony elsewhere…How can you justify belief in something that is so cruel and unfair? In my opinion there is no universal giving and taking, its all statistics. God is imaginary, Jesus will not return and he very likely never existed. You can only imagine what he will do when he comes because faith is based in imagination

.

It’s sad that you once thought God didn’t love you. A real pity that you had such a negative self image. Not really surprising though, considering the man you’re imagining was judging you. Supposably so loving and yet you’re taught to obey without proof, so forgiving and you think he would send a good person to Hell simply because they had not followed scripture. I would love to know how he turns towards you and away and how you know, if the church needs anything these days, its proof of some kind. As for the power of prayer, try picking up a piece of fruit and trusting that it knows what’s best for you, then pray to it. If you get you’re prayer then the fruit is god, if you don’t get your prayer;the fruit is still god, if you get your prayer in a years time the fruit is still god. Because you are trusting it to know what’s best for you, there is no way that it will not ‘answer’ your prayer.

 

I do not pray. I am a happy person with a positive outlook on life that can trust myself to make moral choices, I don’t need god to be a good person. I am living a life without prayer and to hear more on that go see my blog.

I mean, really, how do you know that he knows all your hearts desires? How can you possibly guess the mind of a being you have never seen? I know how you can, you have faith, faith is to believe without evidence. Faith is not a good thing when combined with ignorance. Even thought you believe in something no-one can see, you should still be reading up on the last two-thousand year of science…it’s a little more accurate then the old words you have from all that time ago written by men with their own ancient outlooks on life.

God did not make us. Imperfect Evolution made us, believe it or not at least there is evidence for it, please argue otherwise…I had someone tell me there was scolding proof against evolution although when I asked for this astounding breakthrough I was provided with nothing.

 So in your mind, what does it mean that God made me to disbelieve him? Because I don’t see how I could embrace any of the thousands of faiths with no proof…so all the believers would see me as made by all of their different gods purely so I could not believe? How does that work…it doesn’t, I’m an atheist because I was lucky to be a sceptical child and not fall for fairytales (except Santa and the Easter bunny, fortunately we all grow out of those lies that used to give us the same orgasmic pleasure as Jesus’ name does for you).

We are not here to pass time and live for ourselves. We are here because the universes growth has resulted in a little rock placed in a favourable position has grown life which through genetic selection has led to us, sentient creatures capable of looking at ourselves and asking "Why am I here?" Although as a result of this sentience some people at some point started saying "I know why I’m here" And telling stories about gods and goddesses and Zeus and Hera and Ra and all the other ancient religions, it became a nice addition to add "and you get to live forever" and who doesn’t want to live forever? I do! I wish there was a heaven…although I’ve yet to see any evidence of it. It’s stupid to say "Why would you chose to believe that you just grow old and die?" because if you read my blog you will see that I am a pretty fulfilled person and happy with my place in the universe. I could say "Why waste the life you have praying to a deity who never answers?"

So yes, I think many people want to go to heaven, although I know that based on the world I can see that that is not going to happen. It’s even sadder that you are forced to worry about not spending time with family and friends in the afterlife, again, how can your god be so cruel that he would split you and those you love apart, again…because he is imaginary. Heaven and hell are ideas spread because we like to think in black and white. Unfortunately life is not like that. No ‘good’ and no ‘bad’ just a mixture of both.

How can we be like Christ? the words relating to Christ were written by people who didn’t know the guy.

 

Sins are in your mind. If you think you need God to be a good person then that is really sad. Look around, does everybody need god to be ‘good’ people? Would a loving God punish people because they didn’t say Hi every now and then or because they cheated on something or looked at a woman wrong or fell in love with someone of the same sex? Maybe your god would, if you decide…after all he is imaginary.

Its sad, reading the confusion you experience as your brain fights so hard to rationalize the irrational beliefs…re-iterating things you have heard all through your life ‘god will take you under his wing’ ‘sinners will burn in hell forever" ‘if you sin, god knows and you are unworthy of his love until you repent’. Sad. Again, love and wrath…he must be one stuffed up dude…but of course he isn’t…he is imaginary.

Why should I read the bible instead of the Koran if I want to be ‘saved’? Why should your god be right and others wrong? Because they are all imaginary. It’s easy to interpret a work of fiction any way you want. I wont read the bible even if I were agnostic because how could I be sure the bible is more accurate then the Babylonian tablets? Or the Koran or any other old tattered document that claims the truth? To be truly honest and informed you would have to try each and every religion. Confusion, and all because we like to think we get to live forever.

Righteous/blameless, shameless. How nice that you will probably die devoid of many great experiences because you have spent all this time questioning your actions in the eyes of a deity you’ve never seen or heard.

You hope that one day your family and friends will agree with your beliefs and adapt because you assume you are right. You see no way that you could be wrong, therefore those people you love are drifting away because they are wrong. Intolerance.

I am really sorry that you are so torn up by your confusion.

smebro smebro
22-25, M
14 Responses Jun 21, 2007

I am a flatliner.<br />
There is conciousness after death.<br />
We are pure energy and return to the source when we die.

Thanks Radiant, we just live as best we can.

Exactly! Well worded. I come up with a lot of maybe<br />
this or that too. <br />
<br />
I certainly do not need a god that is so unenvolved. And I do not want one that would set us up to struggle and then teach us that it is the best way, or that it all works together for good. That kind of god is mean.<br />
<br />
I think that to often, people who wait upon some miracle or some god end up being passive and not giveing help. <br />
<br />
I hope you keep exdpressing your concerns here so that all of us can bounch our thoughts around and learn. <br />
<br />
R

You have an admirable view of things Radiant, and have definably put more thought into the subject then I have.<br />
Even with the possibility that he does intervene, it does not account for the needy that do not receive such luck.<br />
Perhaps there are other mechanisms to explain this sensation, perhaps other ’yous’ in other realities are warning you of impending danger, or perhaps the mechanism is more simple. <br />
I do not yet see the evidence to suggest that the universe is the result of something more complicated then the universe itself, and so I usually look for a more simple or elegant explanation. One that seems viable given the trend of reality, this doesn’t stop me from imagining all kinds of arrangements…but many of these have inconsistencies which tear them apart.

smebro, <br />
<br />
Yes, I can agree that it has happened once, because we are here. I bet that since it happened once, it could happen again, and that it could have alaready happened again. <br />
<br />
Therefore, there may be extra terrestrials.<br />
<br />
The fact that no god stood up to help perfectly innocent people, or stop great natural disasters, is one of the BIGGEST reasons I began to think about the fundamentalist dogma in a way that helped me step away from it.<br />
<br />
So far as I can tell, astrologists, psychics, seers, prophets, witches, those "fllled with the Holy spirit" and <br />
holy men, have not been able to ultimately stop hunger, pain, death or meaness. Heck, even philanthropists with lots of money, collectively, can only do so much.<br />
<br />
Yet, the phenomenon of directive thoughts, thoughts that prepare me quickly to deal with a future event, <br />
thoughts that lead to creating safety for someone ( but I did not know until later what my shared thoughts did) or a gifting of much needed information, still puzle me. <br />
<br />
Maybe there is a sort of connectivity with friends and family, or people of like mind, or maybe with all of humanity. <br />
<br />
Perhaps we are not always aware of these thoughts, or we do not act on them, therefore the help is thwarted. <br />
<br />
We think, therefore we are. I can not help thinking about these things, it happend periodically and still, there are nt definitive answers!<br />
<br />
So, I must accept that a higher power or a creator that is personal would have made himself known by now, I am beginning my 60s. <br />
<br />
R

Radiant, thanks for your thoughts...and bringing me back to this significant story I wrote quite a while back now. It's always interesting to read myself from the past, and see how much I still agree with me. I'll keep the parts I do not agree with secret.<br />
<br />
I think as far as making guesses about the intelligent designer that might be, we are doing much the same as the people that search for extra-terrestrials. The premise of the earth being built still requires an explanation for the level above, if it was aliens that put us here, then where did they come from? And by shifting it back to that idea of a designer, we have no choice but to assume he either allows, or does no care for, the people in pain. But still, we have nothing to suggest this…although it is immeasurably more likely than many other creation stories. I still prescribe to the ‘in a universe so big it was inevitable life would arise from chaos, and the fact we are here shows that it happened at least once’ idea. In that version life came from a favourable arrangement of molecules on a favourable environment, this favourable arrangement need have only happened once for us to be here.<br />
<br />
Rumor, you mix too much science and faith…such combinations cannot survive scrutiny. Also, you present some very surprising views of the bible that many Christians would disagree with. I wonder how you justify that…or do you just think ‘Oh boy! It’s me! I am the 10% that is going to heaven!’<br />
How nice for you Rumor.

Dear smebro, <br />
<br />
I adore your thinking. I was raised in a fundamentalist society and even served as a Christian missionary. <br />
<br />
Eventually, I figured out that there is no hard evidence that defines a god.<br />
<br />
Then I decided that the flood story and the creation story can be explained through nature but that the existance of a god with no beginning and no ending also can not be explained. <br />
<br />
Yet, beginnings and endings are all over the place here on this earth. <br />
<br />
We began and scientifically speaking a whole lot of tihngs had to begin at the same time in order for anything to last long enough for other things to come along. The process of ovaum firtilization needs a whole lot of things in order for the entire process to develop a baby. <br />
<br />
So, for now, I am settled on the idea that somebody created this biosphere, but mankind forgot how it all happened, and how to get back to the place from which we came. <br />
<br />
There are thoughts that come to me that do not appear to come just from me, and that are in fact against, what I would normally think. These thoughts have included poetry, great pieces of information that I have not previously learned, bits of humor, directions, and cautions. Sometimes they have been forethought or an understanding of something about to happen, or a nudge to call or contact someone and listen to them.<br />
<br />
Sometimes it is a clear do not do( whatever) or it could be clearly not to do (whatever).<br />
<br />
Is this God? Is is higher evolution? Is it de evolution?<br />
<br />
Once, after meditating, I kept thinking of a word that I had never heard, I think. The word was "pugnacious".<br />
I had never written it or spelled it or spoken it. So I sounded it out and tried to find it in the dictionary. There is was: Disposed to be quarrelsome and combative. So I learned the meaning of a word. Now what was I supposed to do with this? Well, soon after that the information I learned while trying to figure this out was used to instructs a small group that was having problems with in fighting!<br />
<br />
Since I can not explain the existance or the lack of existance of god...<br />
<br />
Since I can explain a lot of things scientifically.<br />
<br />
Since I have experienced strange communication from within my own mind, and do not know wether it is a previously educated me, or the spirit of another, or of a creator....<br />
<br />
I decided to keep an open mind, but not belong to any religion. <br />
<br />
I recognize power in the organization of the universe and this earth. I understand that it did not have to organize itself into families and include emotions such as love, tenderness, valor, and self sacrifice.<br />
<br />
I am reading between the lines and think there is a great possibility that there was a creator or colaborative creators who set us up here and that we were meant to take care of the world and love it and eachother. <br />
<br />
Unfortunately, our survival instincts and natural fears caused war and greed and we have unbalanced the earth.<br />
<br />
I do not know if He/she or they are listening or watching. <br />
<br />
But, I always thank the Universe for creation and for giving me life. <br />
<br />
Radiant

All I want to say is.. I can't believe how passionate you are about NOT believing.. if you put half the effort you just put into this post as you did actually having some "faith" you might understand what those of us who believe do. Let me remind you that faith, god, death, judgment day is not for everyone to understand, but one, you. I don't mean you particularly, I just mean you and you alone chose whether or not you want to believe or have faith, it's not for you to decide if "I" believe or have faith. Even an AA member understands this.. "God as you have come to understand him" It's a "personal relationship" a "personal experience" I'm sure my perception of God is not exactly like anyone else's, but I do know that the experience I had has happened to many others, explain that.. are we all freaks of nature, science...? I use to go to church faithfully (no pun intended) till I was 13 or so, always heard the bible stories, listened to the pastor... never actually knew God personally. My mother told me one time that God told her not to marry my step father.. she did anyway, I'm sure that's one mistake she regrets, I know I do. God told me to leave my now ex-girlfriend, I didn't listen, I should have. I think the problem with God or the devil is that people are expecting a "man" something tangible, something they can explain with their simple little minds.. that's the problem, God isn't comprehendable by our feeble little minds, science tells us that we use an avg of what.. 7% of our brains capacity.. and God made us.. what does that tell you? Please don't tell me you think you know it all.. I use to think I knew a lot, certainly not all. "I'm a pretty smart guy" I use to say. STOP THE BUS.. The minute you have to say that, ask yourself this.. who are you trying to convince? A smart person knows they are, they don't need to remind themselves, or others for that matter. I want you to try to wrap your mind around something for me if you will.. try to image God being the father waiting on his favorite chair, already paid for your schooling, already paid for your house... already paid for your future.. and there he is sitting there, just waiting for you to say, "Father, I love you." Now imagine the Devil, same chair.. "Come here son and tell me you love me, and I will give you the world" When you understand the difference there, come talk to me, otherwise, I will leave you with this. As I said, most people want something tangible, proof.. well if I had to explain God, or the devil.. God is all that is good, and the devil is all that is bad. God is the voice in your head saying, "You will feel better about yourself helping that elderly lady up the stairs with her groceries", where the devil is the one saying, "Go ahead, take the elderly ladies purse while she's not looking, no one will see you" Just remember how this started, judgment day comes for all of us, and you stand alone, you think the judge is going to ask you if you have done anything wrong, or already know the wrong in your heart? Again, I commend you on your passion, too bad it's in the wrong direction. I am not religious, not one bit, but I believe in God with my whole heart. In fact, my bible tells me that 90% of all congregations are hypocrites, I agree. Please don't take anything I said as a personal attack, I am just adding my two cents. You are certainly not the only atheist I know. Here's a strange little fact. As my bible says, 90% of all congregations are hypocrites, is that to say that 905 of our population is going to hell? Interesting. Take care of yourself, perhaps you should read, "the Secret" or "I'll see it when I believe it" they really made me change my perception of things.. even after my eyes were already opened to God.

bro, i saw that show on discovery science. i wish i could give you more info. on that note i guess i should also go ahead and post on your whiteboard my beliefs and why. i think it will clear a lot up. i tend to intertwine science and faith all in one. yet another reason the church/religion and myself do not get along...

It does seem to be quite an interesting discourse you are having with yourself here. Including affection and numerical approval! I heartily support your self reinforcement :D ;) Maybe Daydreamer1 got saved, whereas you are clearly still in hell o_O

Damn, thats the second time I look like I'm talking to myself. I'll make a tenittive mental note here to edit my main post and bunch all my responses to the now invisable daydreamer in one post with nice formating, rather then have myself converse with myself.<br />
**Mental note**

Sweet is nice, but keep quiet about it. I think most people are intrinsically good, even if they seem a little nasty sometimes...We’re all sharing thoughts and ideas here, and that is good. **hugs** and complimentary 5 ratings for you.

I'm sorry day-dreamer...I never quite know when I'm crossing from analysis to personal attack...I speak too often with my mind and without empathy. I ask people to define what they believe when I do not fully define my own beliefs. I am a hypocrite in many regards. I also go overboard with writing my thoughts…sometimes sticking myself in a hole within my comment or story and then later going through and re-reading myself and cringing at what I’ve said, then apologising for whatever I said…and then sometimes taking back the apology (I’m really sorry…But…). Thanks for the reference to the radio-station, to be honest I will probably not call…Unless I come up with a set of questions that I think are worth asking him. I can probably find equal opinions to that man online, probably by googling his name I would find more.<br />
I am trying to encourage people to question things they hold close, perhaps I should not be doing this…But I cannot see the harm in questions, I should be careful not to make assumptions.<br />
So what am I saying here… that I am sorry if anything I have said has gone too far, I hope I do not seem too mean. I’m really not a bad guy, just a curious young one.<br />
(By the way, sorry I had a snippet of your response at the end of mine, I copied pasted it onto where I wrote response and then didn't spot it...too late to delete the comment and re-post it now.)

I think you might have given me the most comprehensive answer yet, and I take some back, a life is a life in your eyes. I don't have the authority to say wether you have wasted or not wasted your time on Religion, I might be wasting my time on here questioning religion. But we both do what we perceive to be right.<br />
I’m sorry if my comment/story was too long or too personal, I suppose I am sorting my own thoughts by responding to yours. I am still looking for the comprehensive question religion answers or poses, something that makes sense to me. As of yet I’ve not found that, just anecdotal evidence of a belief that people are completely unwilling to even question. I do encourage you to force me into a foxhole, find the holes in my reasoning that block out the logic you must think I am missing. Please, help me question science.<br />
Oh, and yes, I am an aspiring writer, although I am young and have only just completed my first novel it is a profession I dream of.<br />
I was wrong to pre-suppose that you are missing out on something by believing in God and following religion, it is entirely up to you(Of course) if you find your truth there. I find mine in knowledge and I have personal issues with the fact religion is so subjective in regards to science. I should not have implied you are missing out on life as I see it when I am no doubt missing out on life as you see it. I do stand my the idea that you should question was you believe, that science allows you a bit more flexibility of thinking that can only help you open your eyes to the unseeable but demonstrated proofs around you, science gives perspective and best of all, science asks and attempts to answer questions, isn’t that better than taking answers that are a few thousand years old and sticking stubbornly to them?<br />
So I apologise for saying you have missed out, how could I know this? I was foolish to type it.<br />
I am, however, experiencing what life has to offer, every day living in the moment, living in the future, in the past, Living as best I can to my standard. No I do not think you have been in a bubble your whole life, although I question the amount of pain and suffering you expose yourself to, but then again sometimes pain and suffering only heightens religious adherence. <br />
What do you mean when you say your faith is grounded? Can you trace it back into your childhood? Can you trace it to a significant event? Can you trace it to a family member? <br />
I am honestly trying to shake your faith, because you should be questioning why your beliefs are so different to other peoples anyway, you should be questioning why you think your god is correct, which you must if your faith is truly unshakable. What are your honest thoughts on other religions and beliefs? Why do you think about hypnosis? What do you think about astral travel? Chakras? Lucid dreaming? Buddhism? Taoism? Artificial intelligence? I know its a lot to ask to consider but I have, I have pondered on them all and have my own experiences and thoughts on those and more…I have considered the bible, but under the same pre-tense as any other literary work, I found it to be as I expected, vague and undefined…hardly the work of an incomprehensible being. I have considered the bible and I do not think it is anything special, perhaps I should try the Koran (Joking, not enough time, have you?)<br />
God is the biggest question of all, perhaps the ‘god factor’ is inevitable in growing civilisations of sentient beings…a way to deal with the discrepancies between knowledge and experience…but it is surely not a permanent thing, civilisation is able to leave our archaic ways behind, I believe that with all the hope I have…we can leave behind many of our mis-concenceptions and unite as one species setting about guaranteeing our long term success.<br />
What do you have to lose? An outlook that would raise your mind to an area closer to understanding of the world around you, simple scientific knowledge, the basics, can open your eyes to much more intricate interactions and possibilities in the world we are spending time in now. I think you should forget planning for the afterlife, start taking personal responsibility for your actions and accepting the impacts on your life that are completely random, start seriously questioning what you think you know for sure. <br />
Sorry if my response is another commentary, but I encourage responses.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
This is in response to smebro's comment. Wow! That is really a comprehensive answer I do have to say so myself even though I wasn't asking for one personally, I was just writing my thoughts, however while I take a minute to absorb all of what you said, chew on it for awhile in order to give my rebuttle and that's even if I have one. I will say though you definitely can write well. Are you into story writing? You definitely have a talent. I will leave you with one to two remarks to your comment. When you said "How nice that you will probably die devoid of many great experiences because you have spent all this time questioning your actions in the eyes of a deity you’ve never seen or heard." And what experiences am I missing out on exactly? What haven't I experienced? Do you think that I have been in a bubble my whole life? Happiness, how does one truly define their own? Have you experienced all that life has to offer already? Not me. But I will tell you that my faith is grounded and no matter how much someone tries to shake it I will always love with my whole heart and give all that I have even if I am wrong what do I really have to lose? Okay now this question is completely rhetorical but, what if? I don't believe that I need a commentary on that question.