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The Scent of Pain

I am aware of the mystical and have had moments of mystical insight, but not to the extent my wife has experienced and is experiencing. What I am gathering is that she and this man have experienced a "shared awareness" that has profoundly affected them both. These spiritual retreats are purported to be an amazing catalyst for mystical experiences, another realm of existence/awareness. And that somehow they shared the "same space at the same time". So they experienced bliss as if they were one and the same, even their heart beats became synchronized.

And so she has been intrigued/drawn/overwhelmed by this profound experience with him. And perhaps admittedly confused by it to the extent she had a couple of weeks where she was in total love with him.

She says she has worked it all out, he is not what she wants, it is all reconciled in her mind, that I shouldn't worry about it, that she has absolutely no worries.

And I can tell she is not obsessed like she was.

But in two weeks she is going to be with him again. What even more profound experience might she have with him this time?

And to further complicate it for me, last summer she was consumed with him and when I addressed it said it was all in my head, there was nothing between them. Yet, just before she went to a spiritual retreat in the fall, she admitted that he was going to pick her up at the airport before the retreat and spend the day with him, and that she was going to spend the day after the retreat with him too, him driving her back to the airport. And that it had been previously arranged at the last retreat, where they shared their first "profound experience".

Upon her return from the fall retreat, she could not look me in the eyes, was illusive, and thats when I saw an email where she obviously felt madly in love with him.

It started out "After the last retreat, I blithely thought I could just put behind me what we shared, but now I know I could never feel anything like this for ****[me]...."


She even told him that for more than a week she hadn't washed the clothes she had worn when she was last with him, so she could continue to smell his scent on them/her.

So goes my pain....

IamIam IamIam 46-50, M 32 Responses Feb 2, 2008

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So I looking over this really sad story I am just curious in what has come of it? Are you still married?<br />
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The way I see it you either get busy living or get busy dying right? If you LOVE your wife then you FIGHT for her. If you don't love her or are tired of fighting then you show her the door. I have learned one thing from my 40 years of life and that is this. You don't let ANYONE EVER walk all over you. You stand up for what is yours and don't let no one take it from you. If there is still a glimmer of hope between you two and this other clown is just disrespecting you and your family then YOU have to step in and FIGHT, or you go down swinging. Don't just sit back and let her fall in love with another guy. Do something. Fight for what is yours. <br />
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And like I said if you are tired of fighting remember that there are TONS of other fish in the sea. If you can't give her what she wants, then *** her. Find someone that will respect you for who you are. You certainly don't need this crap as life is WAY too damn short.<br />
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That's my 2 cents anyways. Good luck and hopefully things have worked themselves out.<br />
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Mark

Lovely Title to the story. <br />
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There are so many underlying human emptions on both sides of this issue.. or even all three sides.<br />
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You are obviously a very understanding person and she's lucky to have you on her side.. I hope she realizes what she has before she throws it all away.<br />
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*praying4U*

Ha... well, I think he made some good points, but yeah. I cant stop thinking of the Riddler, from the old Batman, when I watch him...<br />
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDAaDm3JAas<br />
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:^)

Lulls, who, who is this *me* that is lulled? lol...

:^)

Thanks MP. I checked out a few of them.

Good idea. BTW, I was just watching this and thought it might interest you...<br />
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3RMIInluN8

Definitely on the bloody marys, and I'll silently pray my thanks otherwise...

Should we do some hail marys? I dont even know what a hail mary is but it sounds like something that might be helpful in a situation like this... I'm assuming its a bit stronger then a bloody mary, of course....

Hallelujah!

Hang in there (((Buddy)))

Now that you've told us about what happened with your wife when she was 13, when her parents allowed her to live with a man over 20, and about the hot tubs, dyads, well, everything kind of makes sense, I'm sad to say. It would be wonderful if she comes home grounded in reality, aware of what fantasies she has been having, but its also a good idea that you are prepared for the worse. The most important relationships in her life are with you, and with her children, not with strangers in far off places. Let's hope a miracle happened. You sound pretty grounded, but this all must be incredibly hard.

Yes, the answer are within me, that I know. I don't look for others to give me the answers, but I do appreciate the right questions.<br />
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Yes, for your introduction to me, pretty heavy. By other stories? I guess it depends on which one, but most have been leading up to this one.

She said that there were "sexual urges" but that she and this guy agreed to not take it there, to go beyond it.<br />
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But, after hte last time she was with him, she came back in love with him, wanting him sexually.<br />
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I dunno. My guess is that when she comes back, if she can't look me in the eyes, I am going to leave.

These are great comments and questions. I am so appreciative of the perspective offered up to me, more meaningful and helpful than you could know.<br />
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I try to present things as ob<x>jectively as possible (but I guess we all think we do, don't we;)) because I want perspective on the reality of the situation. The problem is there is always more I could tell you...<br />
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For example, my wife is very intelligent, very. As is her family...even most of you on EP, as talented and bright as most of you are, and I mean it sincerely, would have a tough time winning a scrabble game at her families table. Her father a rocket scientist, whom I love dearly. And her mother, extremly vibrant, very, very smart, been a buddhist as long as I've known her, 23 or more years.<br />
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These highly intelligent people let my wife, when she was 13, live with a 28 year old man who emotionally, sexually and physically abused her.<br />
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And I could go on and on....<br />
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So she has her own reasons to be here, where she and I are right now. SO her purging all kinds of issues is/could be a wonderful thing for her, for me too.<br />
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I started a therapists a couple of months ago and it has been very helpful, she helps me out of the inertia and stands up for me. <br />
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So in most ways I am supportive of her process.<br />
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A cult? Yes, the word sounds harch so I'd rather speak of characteristics.<br />
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THese retreats are intended to produce "direct experiences". Meaning an awareness of one's true self, the nature of all things, universal love.<br />
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The involve (in the case of this weekend) 3 days of what are called dyads. A dyda is a back and forth interaction with a partner for 45 minutes, in 5 minute intervals. The partners reminds you of your question and you respond. THe days start at 6 am and go until 11 pm. All food is provided, vegetarian menu, and there are breaks for eating and "walking meditations".<br />
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No outside communication is allowed for the entire retreat, and similar to Las Vegas, "what happens at the retreat, stays at the retreat".<br />
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My wife is also experiencing Kundalini (google it) and this man she sees started experiencing Kundalini too after their last time together. They also were naked in a hot tub together. What I am told is that it is a nude only hot tub, those are the house rules. After the last retreat, I asked my wife if she got in the hot tub naked, and was this guy there, and she said "yes, but there were lots of other in there too." I then asked if there was a time when just she and this guy were there alone, and she said yes, but pointed out that she did wear her panties....<br />
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In terms of "what I'll do if she spends more time with him?" .... good question.<br />
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I am trying to sort all this out before she gets back on Wednesday (she's at the retreat as I write this).<br />
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My current thought is that if she comes back again in love with this guy, I am leaving.<br />
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But, I want some other opinions on this.

Could you give us more information about these spiritual retreats? Something sounds fishy. Spirituality is something inside us, between each of us and God, Nature, other people. Religions help us to find that, but sometimes a church or group puts itself first, spiritual leaders put themselves first, and that can be really dangerous, cult like. Are these retreats expensive? Are they helping your wife to function better in her normal life or does she always want to run away to do another retreat? Your wife should be able to experience her spiritual side at home, with friends, with you. It doesn't sound like her experiences have helped in that way. Everything you describe sounds like she may be involved with a cult, or some group that isn't really providing spiritual support. You've heard of fool's gold. The same kind of thing exists with some "spiritual" groups, they are selling phoney spiritual bliss, not much better then what you can buy from a drug dealer.

I can't tell you what to do ~ only you know. I can help direct you; but, the ultimate decision has to be made by you. <br />
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...I mean how "spiritual" are these retreats? How much do these things cost? Apparently, it messed things up. <br />
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You can only work out so much -- you don't want to be miserable for the rest of your life. <br />
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These problems are not going to walk away. When you are angry and upset in life, you have to clarify and identify what the problems and sources are ~ how you can fix it if possible and move on from the pain. <br />
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I sincerely hope you find a way out~<br />
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You deserve to be happy and appreciated.

You are the master of this domain...<br />
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:^)

I appreciate what you say. I have found so far that when I push things with her, I actually get somewhere. So my natural fear/aversion to conflict I am challenging already. SO thank you for saying that about being too passive, I am sure that is my orientation and I have to be on guard about not being conscious of the "default" me. Thank you thank you.<br />
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And yes, the "Embrace Life" category, I think almost every story in this category is mine...

lol...<br />
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Hey, Iamx2, Forgive me for saying this, but I (me) think you are being very passive with all of this.<br />
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I know many people do not want to rock their owns boats while they are in them, and with so much to lose inside...<br />
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...but I wonder if you're letting her walk all over you sometimes because it`s easier than being the brunt of her wrath. (I'm still influenced by your other story in this comment so you have to forgive me)<br />
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Personally, if this were me, I would have it all out. Good and bad, taken truthfully. But I'm not in the same situation so, what do I know?<br />
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I find it very interesting though, Iamx2, that you have this story in the `Embrace Life` category. That is a very positive thing... :)

How was it for you;)

Opps, we posted simultaneously!!

I could ask her not to associate with him anymore, but she would rebuke me. Although that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask. Thus far I have decided it best to let her make those calls.<br />
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She says it was a part of a very intense purging process, that I really have nothing to worry about.<br />
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After her first retreat she was excited about having me go with her...but then she quickly got possessive about it, at this point doesn't want me in her space. Which actually may be a good idea for now, so she can work through her stuff without my presence and influence. But in the long run, it might be a good idea. I'll probably go to one or two first by myself.

Excellent suggestions, Cinderelly! I agree, the challenge though is how to phrase it. Would you feel comfortable telling her that you are really distressed about her going off on her own and seeing him, but that you understand she is unhappy, has found something in these retreats, and you would like to share that with her. Let her know that her spiritual life is a priority for you, but that you wish this could be shared together?<br />
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I dunno, though, another part of me says she has to make this mess, fall on her face, to realize the foolishness of it all, like an alcoholic. She has experienced bliss, and she is now chasing it. Kinda like Dorothy, she thinks the power is elsewhere, when all the time she has had the power. There is no magical wizard out there that saves us. We save ourselves, when we rejoice and treasure all that surrounds us, all God has given us.<br />
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Grace is in some sense simply a state of deep gratefulness. Opening our hearts and being totally happy with all we have, not dreaming of things being different...

Seems the first answer would be to ask her to not associate with this man anymore.<br />
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It cant be real love, but maybe an infatuation borne of mystical connectedness.<br />
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And I think awakening has a point there that if she experienced these things with someone else, she could also do this with you. Why don't you go on a retreat with her? It could be a healing thing for the two of you...

MakingPeace: Thanks for you 2 cents. You have great insight, as does awakening into this, I can tell. Actually, I was hoping you might take a peek at this.<br />
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You have described the situation perfectly. It is hard to not judge something like this but the best way to see it is without judgement. As Awakening says "a change of mindset is the order of the day". So true.<br />
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And she is leaving me out for some reason. I am getting straight-armed for the most part.<br />
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But she needed something like this, honestly, so I am thankful in many ways. But I want our family to stay together...I know it is unneccessary that it not be so.<br />
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So creative thought, yes.

OKAY, here's my 2 cents on this matter...<br />
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What your wife experienced is a kind of bliss high, drug like. Its not true enlightenment, its a sense of oneness that she felt as she lets her sense of self identity fall away. She experienced this with him, not you, because there is no past shared responsibility, no obligations, no expectations of her, beyond his desire to get "high" with her. A lot of spiritual leaders manipulate women this way...<br />
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And a lot of normal people have experiences like this, so I dont want to rush to judge him. I once had an encounter with someone, like this. There was sexual attraction, but beyond that this sense of breaking free of the confines of my self identity. I felt totally "free" with her, the bonds of society, family, marriage fell away...<br />
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Needless to say, this kind of high can be very destructive. In my case I took away from the encounter a deep sense of my spiritual identity, but didnt look toward her as the *source* of my experience. She was the catalyst, but it was up to me to take that back into my life, to learn how to create a more mystical/spiritual relationship with *all* things, with my family, the Universe, Nature, etc..<br />
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Your wife should not be blaming you for her problems. If she blames you and looks to him as the source of her spiritual power and identity, she is not seeing things clearly. Unfortunately, you must be careful how you speak about this or she will again blame you for bumming her out...

Yes...she blames me for everything wrong in her life.

I have told her that I am not sure how I'll react if it repeats itself.

Hey BitKitty: What gift are you referring to?