Because Men Suck...

...women suck too, but in different ways. And sometimes women don't suck at all, which also sucks.

But when I step back and look at the average maturity level of grown "men" it baffles me. I think those of us who are testosteron-ey are responsible for the majority of suffering in the world, and I'm prepared to defend that statement.

VendettA12 VendettA12
31-35, M
57 Responses Feb 17, 2009

well, I'm a lesbian because...ummm...I'm a lesbian...so as a result of my lesbianism I think women are hotter...although I gotta say...some times I sit there and think...would I really want to be straight and deal with guys???? Don't get me wrong, there are some nice ones...but I guess I'm not really into the whole "aggressive" testosterone dominant manly flavor.

whuttup -- and here's another wrinkle to iron out of the shirt: Granting that men commit more of the violent crimes...which, in the long run of any society, has the worse effect -- violent crimes or evil influences? Is someone being raped or killed (both abominable) by a man worse for society than a child becoming a murderer or rapist due to being emotionally abused by a mother, for example?

Wow - fascinating conversation to read all the way through!<br />
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I've gotta disagree with you, though, Whuttup. There's no conclusive evidence (at least none that I've ever seen) that a man's biochemical make-up causes him to be more aggressive. There's also no evidence that testosterone and androgen increase sex drive more than a monthly cocktail of oestrogen and progesterone. It's fairly anecdotal. Many women try testosterone creams in order to improve their libidos, but they're actually not effective on women in blind tests. If you don't believe in the power of female sex hormones, I'd point out that a lioness in heat will have sex 500-1000 times in three days. She will wear out several lions in the process! :)<br />
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I'd agree that men commit more violent crimes simply because the testosterone creates greater muscle mass (which can be proved) and the ability to have an erection makes it biologically easier to rape someone. I'd have a tough time overpowering a person and raping them, even if I wanted to.<br />
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I also don't believe that committing a crime is necessarily worse than encouraging it. To quote Henry Rollins: "Men will go through a hailstorm of machine gun fire to get to ****!" Women's whims encourage men to do a lot of stupid destructive things - and to women it is often merely that: a whim. Every weekend my sleep is disturbed by squadrons of knuckle-dragging teenage boys driving very fast, very loud cars up and down a nearby street. It's dangerous both to them, and to anyone else who happens to be in the area. But they do it for the girls. As soon as the pretty, scantily-clad teenage girls get bored and stop showing up to these rubber-fests, the cars will go up on the auction block.<br />
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Women can (and do) fairly argue that they never actually encourage men to do anything destructive! They just happened to turn up, and biology runs its course... However, I've also met men (many, many men) who claim to dislike silicone implants on a woman. So why do women do such things to themselves? For one reason or another, they think it's going to gain them positive attention and personal happiness.<br />
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I don't believe that men are more imbibed with evil intent than women are. We just do different (dumb) things to get each other's attention. And both parties are equally guilty of encouraging the other, whether we like it or not.

Yes, that might make the cunning women more evil, but manipulating a crime isn't a crime. The crime is a crime.

You forgot to mention how easily manipulated most men are by women. :) I agree that men have likely insitigated a greater degree of warfare and barbarism, often over ideals, property, and breeding rights. How often have such things been orchestrated by women who were capable of pulling certain.. strings.. on said men?

Amen!!! You took the words RIGHT OUT of my MOUTH!!! <br />
I love men - I repeat - LOVE them - BUT: guys MUST learn that just because they have more testosterone, it does not mean that you are ALWAYS allowed to DRIVE!!!! :) and many, many other things too infinite to list!!

Ok, but I wasn't really talking about measuring worth by sex and intimacy. I was talking about how men are biologically predisposed to commit more violent crimes which account for the majority of suffering the world. Hence, men suck when it comes to measuring violence and suffering.

I think it would be better said,"because people suck...." I am I guess what would be termed as bi-sexual. I have never got into a relationship to be with a man{I am female} I have always basically ignored the sex of the individual and focused on the spirit, soul and heart of the person I am with. Sex fits in accordingly. I have had mind blowing sex ALONE!!! So as far as I am concerned it is the intimacy, comfort and security felt in the relationship that is first and foremost

Indeed the brain is more potent, as long as it doesn't get impaled on a sword. <br />
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http://www.ishmael.org/Education/Writings/just_talk.shtml

well...I am certainly not one of the overly testosteroney types...as a matter of fact I find that to be incredibly irksome. which is yet another reason I chose USAF over something like the Marines or the Army...the mind is so much more potent than the sword...

wow very well said whattup. I couldn't agree more with the second to last comment.

I just realized that perhaps Bush was a fan of Tyler and so he tried his hardest to provide us with a great war and a great depression. <br />
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Gee, thanks George.

Unintended consequences strike again. What does it mean to be masculine in a feminized society? The greater autonomy that women have fought for and slowly achieved through the decades has led to a blurring of the roles. Men are no longer required to be the sole provider, which diminishes their contribution to the family unit. Men are not required to fill the same roles of protector, at least no to the same extent, because we have institutions such as the police and court systems to do much of that, and vigilantes are frowned upon. In these diminished roles of provider and protector, what to do with the repressed anger and aggression? <br />
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I know SoUL loves Fight Club, so:<br />
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“I see all this potential, and I see it squandered… slaves with white collars… Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives.” -Tyler Durden

Again, I wouldn't dispute the significance or the damage that you describe, Annie, but I would ask you what your experience in regards to violent or homicidal crime is? Generally perpetrated by men or by women? You're not going to find a lot of battered husbands out there (in comparison to battered wives) and you're not going to find a lot of male victims of rape (can't rape the willing lol).

Generally, Whattup, I can see what you mean here. But my specific experience has been the complete opposite. The men in my life have always been protective, loving, trustworthy and kind. But I have had my back stabbed or often witnessed campaigns of social destruction toward other women, by women I thought were friends, even family! So, what's that about? I'd rather not think about it, to be honest.

When I was a teenager I learned all about sex from reading trashy romance novels. I think they should be required reading for young males.

In an ideal world, women's studies classes would be predominately men, since they are the ones that are clueless when it comes to women.

Women's studies classes are always fun. When I was in college I took a women's comedy class in literature, and I was one of only two guys in the class. My instructor liked hearing the views of the minority, so to speak.

Another blasted generalization, I know. Doesn't mean it's not valid :P <br />
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A man's subconscious is constantly running through sexual material. You can see the differences between men and women by looking at brain scans. I'll see if I can locate a good link to such a study. It's like a man's subconscious is constantly running sexual material like it's background noise. Calculating an average sex drive for the genders might be problematic, but I'm sure someone's found a way to do it. <br />
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It's just another instance where men and women are so different that it really strains the meaning of "equal". <br />
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Personally I think there are too many differences between men and women to just label them as "equal" across the board, but that is perhaps a subject for another story. Men and women should have equal rights, but there are too many areas where the differences are too great to just stick a label of "equal" across the board.

lol well then maybe that's because of all the crap they have access to on the innernet...haha well i know my sex drive may not be like a man's but its pretty high for a woman. My man tells me im gonna kill him. He is the first man i met though that doesn't care about **** and doesn't want it in our relationship. He threw my **** away..lol i don't care if he's happy without it then cool. Most men i have been with from my experience though would have never thrown that out...lol nor ever tell me that im gonna kill him with sex. I am oversexed enough i feel and men are definitely to blame. :0D

No offense, but I always think it's cute when women talk about how they think they understand a man's sex drive because sometimes they think about sex or get horny... women, even really sexual women, have no idea how much an average man thinks about sex. A woman who's horny is like a man who's not even really thinking about sex lol. Most women you'd consider ***** would be comparable to an average man.

I do agree it can help in some relationships if the woman is open and understanding. In my first relationship I caught my man looking at **** but i was young and got hurt and jealous that he wanted to look at other woman in that way and felt like i did something wrong to make that happen. <br />
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I know now that it is not personal and it can help a relationship that needs help in the sex dept. or they need to spice things up or whatever. I understand that it can work in some relationships and am open to it in my relationship now. Im talking about what it can lead to for some men. It can become an addiction and can destroy a relationship. I had a job where i was the only woman and it was a dispatch job/customer service and when the men were in the office the first thing they did is turn on **** on the computer and watch it till they leave. I was like wow. Okay I learned that sex is constantly on their mind but I sometimes think about sex like this too but I go to my man not a **** shop. I have some self control and keep my desires directed towards the man I love. This is the difference I see in men.<br />
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They will direct their desires wherever they can and have no problem disrespecting the person they say they love.

The stigma over **** is unfortunate. **** can be an outlet that keeps men from feeling unfulfilled and wanting to cheat. I think women underestimate the usefulness of **** in relationships. For instance, I am very aware of **** addiction and sex addicts and how destructive that can be to a relationship. I'm not discounting that. <br />
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However, it is perfectly feasible that **** can fulfill a man's desire for visual stimulation and not detract from a relationship. When a woman discovers her man looking at **** secretly, the first reaction is often to overreact, and assume that he no longer finds her attractive or is wanting to cheat. This is, in my opinion, completely wrong. <br />
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The first question the woman should ask is if their sex life is being hampered by him looking at ****. If a man is neglecting his wife in favor of looking at ****, that's a problem. If a couple has a healthy sex life and he's there for you every time you want to have sex, and on top of that he is looking at ****, then what is the problem exactly? <br />
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Again, I understand the issues of **** addiction and harmful fetishes. But there is simply an ocean of difference between looking at **** and being addicted to it to the detriment of a relationship.

Yes i do agree i can see the scientific differences. My main peeve is when men in a relationship instead of doing the right thing to respect the other person you're with instead they try to do and see exactly what they can get away with. Like its my fault you can't control yourself or do the right thing when i turn my back. I shouldn't have to babysit a grown man. If he isn't doing right by me that is not my fault it his behavior and he is suppose to be able to control it. I shouldn't have to act like a private detective to make sure he is treating me right. Now the sex part i understand they need us woman to be more open-minded and understand their needs better. But this does not mean its acceptable to cheat or be obsessed with ****. It seem the majority of men are selfish and have no problem with lack of self dicipline or what is right. It seems they just want to fullfill and cater to whatever distored world they have created in their heads instead of having some self respect and dignity. To some men that does matter but from my experiences that is not the norm.

There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse. Speaking strictly from a biological perspective, it is far easier to understand why a man would cheat on a woman, as opposed to the opposite. This is called an explanation. It is not an excuse, however. <br><br />
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There are scientific facts which explain the different behaviors of men and women. Facts such as men have millions of ***** while women have only 1 egg at a time; 1 man with 99 women can quickly grow a population while 99 men with 1 woman can only reproduce once every 9 months; men don't have to carry a baby so they have less investment in a baby than a woman; from a natural selection perspective, men benefit from "spreading their seed" while women benefit from holding onto a lifelong mate... <br><br />
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All of these facts explain why men or women are more prone to act certain ways, but that doesn't excuse a man that cheats on woman. It merely explains it.

My bad, Dude. I thought you were female - Haven't run across too many dudes who say/think: "Men suck"<br />
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Nice intro, though.

It's not fair to say allowing the bad behavior is worse then behaving badly. That is putting all the blame on the woman and not taking any responsiblity for what you already know is wrong. It is sickening to see what is deemed acceptable for boys growing up just because they are boys. For example, agressive outburst type of behavior is more acceptable from a boy just because they are male...oh he is all boy! or he is just being a boy and sometimes that may be true and sometimes its behavior that needs attention and concern. It is also acceptable for men to treat woman like ob<x>jects or a toy that the more you can get the better and a pat on the back for being a total tramp is acceptable. Even cheating on thier spouse is semi-acceptable in this world today. Disgust is definitely my feeling on it.

Nice thoughts on perspective, will, but who are you talking to? If you're talking to me, then I'm not sure I understand your statement "to label men as bad only draws more bad men to you."

[Start of: my 2cents]<br />
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If men suck then women blow...<br />
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Not trying to be funny but I like the metaphor (assuming we're talking about straws that is)<br />
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What I've found is that everything is relative when it pertains to life - but the bottom line is balance.<br />
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For instance, if you were an antelope and you watched your kid get eaten by a lion your normal response would be to hate all lions.<br />
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But if you were a lion who ate the antelope your response would be more like: "Yummy! Goes great with fries too."<br />
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You see, there's no such thing as good or bad it's just your perspective.<br />
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Besides the antelopes have to be eaten by the lions to maintain the natural order of things - again balance.<br />
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Another example (I'm ex-military so I can speak to this):<br />
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When we went over to Iraq didn't most Americans think it was for a peaceful mission? Newsflash: The Iraqis didn't think that - nor do they now. They want us out.<br />
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So now what do you have...<br />
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A view by Americans that Muslims are bad and a Muslim view that are Americans are bad.<br />
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Who's right?<br />
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The one who makes the most noise about an injustice or a group they dislike (as you are doing)?<br />
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No way.<br />
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What you are doing (if you believe in 'cause and effect' or the Law of Attraction) is creating more of the same thing you despise.<br />
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Here again, balance.<br />
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Question: How do you make hot water cooler? <br />
Answer: Add colder water.<br />
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Question: How do you make less war?<br />
Answer: Add more peace (something women are really good at)<br />
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Hey, I'm not attacking you. I think the female gender is one the most powerful forces on this planet (I can't tell you how many times I've done the bidding of a woman - just for her affection) but to label men as bad only draws more bad men to you. <br />
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Capish?<br />
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If you have estrogen - use it - be a woman - not a woman that acts like a man (we got enough of them).<br />
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Use your natural talents to affect the things you want to change.<br />
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[End of: my 2cents]

Haven't read the other comments yet, only gettingby's, and I gotta say, never underestimate the the aggression of a mother defending her cubs (pups, kits, calves, children...) Some of us have been known to send our men running for cover.

so on the issue of needing to provide statistics, that's a no vote from krypton and a yes vote from Eric?

These comments (typical for such a topic) are cute. Stereo-types, pandering and the such. <br />
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Too cute.

HAHA, no you don't whuttup. It is true and proven that men perform far more violent crimes than women. The question is why?? Are they prone to it psychologically or is it just that they have the means to do them? I find many women encourage their men to value their ex<x>pressions of physical superiority. Personally, I do not. My husband nad his brother wanted to jump out of the car to beat up someone that did almost cause an accident. I was so appalled that I informed them if they moved from their seats they would not only find themselves without a ride, but without someone to bail them out of jail. Violence is stupid in any realm and people of all shapes, colors and sex need to be called out on it.

I don't think I'm extrapolating from my life, I think I'm extrapolating from my experience of the news and statistics that I've seen. I don't think I'm making outrageous claims that demand scientific evidence, but perhaps I am? Maybe I have to provide crime statistics which break down by gender.

We all really only know our own life, at least in my world it works that way. We can generalize from those interactions. I have only known women to be truly violent and I could assume that women are that way, but I do try not to. Extrapolating my own life and thoughts onto others doesn't help with understanding, but breeds wrong assumptions. When it comes to violence it is easier for a man to explode and do something violent. It is physically easier for him to rape or to punch and win. That is the only reason that I see for the majority of violent crimes being men. If women were of the same average strength as men or had appendages that made it easy to rape, then we would do it just as often.

coyote, that's a nice sentiment, but totally unrealistic. You are pointing out exceptions to the rule and then claiming that means there's no rule. Generalizations, despite exceptions, exist for a reason. Are you really challenging my statements that men (on average) are more likely to commit violent crimes than women? That men (on average) are far more likely to be the ones raping, and not the ones being raped? That men (on average) are far more likely to be guilty of murdering people than women? <br />
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Point to all the exceptions you want, but they're still exceptions. Watch the news for the next month and keep a running tally of all the murders, thefts, rapes, sexual deviants, etc and come back and tell me that it split down the middle 50 - 50 men and women. I'm betting you'll prove my insensitive generalizing statements true. <br />
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Good day.

Can't argue your point. Men destroyed empires for Helen of Troy. We are a very impulsive and mindless lot most of the time. We just have to work extra hard the 25% of the time we are not being mindless.

So does that mean you're saying I'm stupid and closeminded for believing men are inherently more destructive than women? Are you arguing that men and women are equally destructive? How so? <br />
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As for your scenario, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Your female borne epidemic could arise today and we'd still all be doomed eventually since we need both genders to procreate. Are you saying that your female epidemic could only arise if men's genetic material were in test tubes and not in actual testicles?

Shakespeare is the greatest author in history, only because he did the best job of holding a mirror up to our reality. But if we're going to look to literature for our heroes, I'll take Atticus Finch.

Maybe... it's Macbeth vs. Lady Macbeth. What a choice.

Good one, Wife!

And I'm not dismissing those things, SG. I'm with you that that's really a terrible thing that so many women submit to and support these things. My point is that no matter how horrible acquiescing to those things are, they still are not as bad as committing the crimes themselves. <br />
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Let's see if I can make it an analogy. Imagine someone hates a person so badly that they wished that person would die. We can both agree that this desire is terrible. <br />
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Compare that to someone that hates another so badly that they actually go and kill them. That is simply magnitudes worse, and that's kind of the distinction I'm making between men and women. Women may silently allow and perhaps even manipulate much of the bad behavior out there, but as bad as that is it's not as bad as the men who actually go out and commit the terrible atrocities. <br />
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Maybe I'll amend my statement to women and men suck, but men suck just a little more :)

BTW...whuttup....some women suck......AND swallow! :) sorry couldn't resist! :)

My girlfriends and I have decided that the solution to our situation and the mental men in our life is this.....we form an intentional community where the women take care of each other and each others children....are the emotional stability and comraderie for one another....the men live in a seperate dorm/wing of the property/whatever works....and do their "man" stuff...and wallow in their own testosterone...and lack of emotional maturity. They are there to fulfill our sexual needs and do the "manly" work....but we don't have to live day to day with them.....we think it would be a stellar way to live! :)

Wow, maybe you should write a book, Whuttup :)

Look, I'm actually not coming down on women in my comments, I am just saying that you are viewing my gender through pink-colored glasses! I am totally a feminist and believe that women are discriminated against much more than most people would ever admit. I am only saying that our behavior is far from blameless in society and that our sadomasochistic behaviors hurt ourselves and others as well.<br />
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It is true that most killers are men and that the vast majority of serial killers are men, and that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all were men. But have you ever seen the pictures of women cheering for Hitler? I have. Scary sh!t... seeing people cheering for someone who actually preached mass murder... and these women were cheering for an ideology that also preached that they were inherently unequal to men.

I think it's Mars (god of war) and Venus (goddess of love) lol.

It's almost like men and women are from different planets.<br />
Like Neptune and Jupiter or something.

Well SG, I think we'll have to concede that we're equally hard on our respective genders. What does that say about us? lol<br />
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somewhatbent- good points. I'll just point out that there's a reason that if you look up sociopathic killers of all stripes through the ages you will see that 99% of them are men. If there's a shooting death in the news, what are the odds that it's all males involved? You get the occasional psychotic woman who kills her babies, but you never get a psychotic serial killer. All the evil women in the history of the world could not touch the evil unleashed by a single Hitler. <br />
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entrepguy- I'd say the grass is greener on one side. It's not totally green, but it's not hard to be greener than the black and brown grass representing men lol.

This powerlessness in women has lead to women being much more passive aggressive, some to the point of being shamelessly manipulative. The grass is no greener on the other side.

And cheering that behavior on? Voting for it? Condemning others for not agreeing with it? Voluntarily entering into servitude to the aggressor?

Good points. But... <br />
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slay with tongues vs slay with hands.... Call me crazy, but I'll take the former over the latter any day. <br />
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Docility, submissiveness, powerlessness and obsession on petty appearances are issues, but I just don't see how anyone can balance those against true atrocities that are far, far, far more common in males. Like I said, it is because of men that it is hard to watch the news without blowing your brains out in a depressed rage. The fact that women acquiesce to so much of this behavior is one of the things that suck about women, but allowing a bad behavior is inherently less destructive than committing that bad behavior.

this is pretty refreshing and a little surprising to hear from a man.

this is pretty refreshing and a little surprising to hear from a man.

OK, I'll throw a few comments in here despite what I said before.<br />
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Whattup, the thing you are leaving out here is that women cheer men on, that women vote for azzholes who act like this, that women slay with their tongues while men do it with their hands. To say that women are by nature more pacific than men just means that you have never been a woman among women and the target of an essentially irrational campaign of knifings, poisonings and sabatoge. <br />
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While it is clearly true that testosterone and society breed competitiveness in men, it should not be forgotten that this same competitiveness, when channeled constructively, also leads to scientific advances and engineering feats. <br />
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Estrogen and societal powerlessness has bred a sheep-like docility in some women, and a craving for male approval that leads to low self-esteem, pettiness, and a fixation on appearances.<br />
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This is a two-way street. Don't be so hard on your gender!

It's a nice thought, but labels exist for a reason. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a general "rule". <br />
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My point is that estrogen breeds different behaviors than testosterone, and the proof is in the actions you can see every day on the news. Women can continue to try their best, but they'll never be able to hold a candle to the collective destruction that men wage through war, hate, aggression, sexual perversion, rape, misogyny, religious punishment, etc etc etc.

Ha, ha, ha,.... no comment here. Nope, none at all.