My Dwindling Patience

And what is wrong with being a teacher because you want a job or the job provides good health benefits? Why do so many people have the idea that a teacher has to be some kind of masochistic saint in order to be a teacher? What a load of baloney! Don't teachers have the right to be human also? In case you hadn't noticed we live in a capitalist world that revolves around money. You need money to do just about everything. Everyone needs money--even teachers need money. So why should any teacher feel embarrased because they chose to teach because they want a job or want health insurance?

especailly in this day and age

and you don't want your kid listening to every adult and you bring up a good point when the adults are out of line... hello or when tthey've been strapped to a desk too long

exactly- and another thing the "rude" kid is the kid who won't follow their freinds aand do drugs and other risky activies

well too bad that was so convoluded no one could understand what you said unless they have a phd in sociology



the commenter who said that adults/teachers have to earn their (the kids) respect is the one who is the most on point



i wonder what would happen if the author commanded respect and instead of demanding it or in this case with this story doing the written equivelent of jumping up and down screamimg i want respect



what would happen if the author relovutionized her classroom (schools everywhere need this but lets stick to the point) engaged the students in what they were learning made it relevent to their lives made it interesting and fun to learn



rather than saying sit here and listen to me



what would happen if everything that was taught was taught in each of the 3-4 learning styles including the kenestetic learners who learn best by doing things(the younger kids learn best by doing anyway and the more you allow them to move and be rather than findinding ways to strap them to a desk



rather than catering to the visual and auditory learners



what would happen if we stopped teaching like its still the industreal age and taught in the infrmation age intigrated technology and more importantly things in these children's frame of refrence using examples from the things kids like to teach every subject



what would happen if the author did these things to earn the kids respect- catered to the intelligence level of the kids rather than ordering them around



what would happen is there would be far less problems and much more learning but the problem is the author and everyone else here is too busy being applaauled by behavior to try and REACH the kids too busy locked into the lack of respect to try a differnet appoach too loked into 20-50 years ago its too much of a blow to their ego to do anything ele



and the most desterbing part is that instead of getting another job teaching ESL or aadul litercy or only teachng special needs kids they are going to continue as they are now even though they show classic signs of burn out to the detrement of the kids

I should mention that was in reply to tulick somehow that part got edited out.



I will also mentionj that in the case of children who have gone through trauma i have know many children growing up who went through everything and anything the children growing up now have or could go through. Including rape, witness to murder, insestual molestation and so on and so on. None of those children were the rude kids some serious issues yes, even more so in adult hood if not dealt with. If anyone of the tragedies i would say it was more often the child of alcoholics who were rude bratty kids. Which goes back to what i was saying parents as role models.

As futile as this is, and i know it is i have been in metal bands for the last 12 years and know well how angry people generically behave.



I think the most ironic part of this whole thread is that what is going on is almost a perfect example of what is being discussed.



People can express themselves just fine with in the boundaries of respect and politeness. There are some cases say when debating merits of christianity between an athiest and a christian extremist that the boundaries need to be re-measured. Its not about fitting a mold so that we all have the same behavior with no voice or no creativity, but keeping a grounding base to work off of social interaction so that each rightly so can go about living their lives without harm.



In the modern american capitalist society which has infected most of the world the social contract does have a propensity to allow the most vicious predator an advantage by stepping on everyone else to get what they want. It is though almost the antithesis of what civilization is meant to be. Now, i do also understand that children should not be forced to respect adults on the sole basis that they are adults, with in boundaries. Such as but not limited to that they may not have to do everything every adult tells them but they like everyone else do not have the right to cause harm to another. People should have respect for everything until the thing in question deserves to loose that respect. We are assuming in this story the author has done nothing to loose respect and that the children are undisciplined brats. Here are some things to consider, maybe you already have your obviously not stupid.



1. It is a parents duty to teach the child how to be an adult.Not force them to miss childhood but teach them along the way. This is disciplining a child. If a parent is not willing to do this they ought not to have children. A parent may do so by three ways: punishment, teaching and leading by example. A parent has the duty to do this because ultimately what the parent does will partially/possibly dictate how the child is as an adult. Which is very important to the evolution of society, and i desperately want that to happen, as an angry and creative person im sure you do also as most people would like to see the world evolve to a better place.



2. As an adult you need to adhere to the social contract. You may choose to not adhere to the social contract but you are waving your right to be a part of society and therefore should leave said society to find one that better suits your wants. You have the right to change the social contract as does everyone by going through the appropriate measures. This is harder and harder to do politically unless your from a family of influence (which happens to mostly be money currently) though many people find creative means and have been successful in so doing. Most parts of the world the social contract is very wide and allows much room with in its boundaries for diversity otherwise we will not evolve very well.



3.As i said before and i will reiterate. We are coming to the point where we have so many stupid laws that should not be and distract people from learning all of the laws that actually count. Why? because people are for some reason making consequences dictate their actions. Reward and punishment are the lowest forms of education. Parental politics is not ideal political policy but is there in place because people dont care unless it directly effects them with reward or consequences. This is likely because of how their parents raised them. The cycle continues and worsens, it does not get better through the same mechanism that made it go awry in the first place.



In conclusion we are at a point where parents need to evolve their understanding of parenting and society in turn needs to evolve. Our children only know what they learn from us, they are little mirrors of our societies sickness that is running rampant, largely due in my opinion out of necessity for money and diet. It has been said that civilization is set up to protect the week. I disagree i believe society is set up for us to co-exist and work together, to live, be happy and prosper together. Then the modern predator takes advantage of our boundaries, there is no honor in such actions and these actions are once again a mirror of a sickness in a sick society that is set up to benefit those said predators as it is also or tries to be also set up for the non predatory of us.. It does not mean that it is ok for people to get stepped on and taken advantage of but we will never evolve past that if we teach our children how to do it better.



I am of course making many generalizations and i apologize to anyone who feels like they should not be placed in some category, it is merely to save space and is not intended to reflect any individuals who i obviously do not know.



I hope it makes sense it is hours past my bedtime and im sure half of those are run on sentences but im a little cross eyed right now.

yes they do this is from a circle mmber of mine



"oh jeez, great message there:



let's teach kids to never have their own voices, let's make sure they start out feeling lost and stay that way



allowing them to speak for themselves would just be the worst thing ever



?????????????



and then we find out in the part i'm reading now that she teaches kids with special needs??????



all the more reason to not be labeling them "rude" and referring to her "dwindling patience"





just read the comment that suggested you weren't qualified to comment because you don't have kids yourself



i think if any of these people were actually bright enough to understand what they were saying they'd see that they need some help here



whereas what you're saying actually makes sense



holy **** these people are insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



love how that undertone person tells you to "go play in the sandbox because the big people are having a discussion"



um, if it's immaturity they're after then why not take a look at their own damn comments?????"





so i'm not the only one who thinks you are all around the bend

Oh please, some things do need to be said.

CR, I know you've withdrawn yourself from this thread(which saddens me to think that one person can bully another so), but I just wanted to say that I appreciate your standpoint on this(as I taught preschool for 8 years, and am active in my daughters schooling) and have myself, raised two well behaved, open minded, free-thinking, and very individual children. There is a difference between stifling children, and teaching them respect and discipline. It's a tough balance, but it can be done, and it's just sad to see how much rarer it is for people to instill those basics ideals into their children's growth. Thank you for the story.

A lot of children get a way with a lot of things. Sadly a lot of people my age are having children and they still think that consequences should dictate actions. It literally runs throughout most aspects of society and is showing in our children.



Consequences to actions is an aspect of discipline just as sitting a child down and talking to them about why they ought not to behave a certain way is (assuming the parent has the capability to understand why they shouldn't).



Thought i would throw that in there.

Boy is this the longest thread you've seen on ep, it is mine. Way to go!!.

treat people with respect and you get walked on taken advaantage of abused and sometimes dead

I happen to agree with Raven on this one. Courtesy and respect are not optional.

There is a local news story that has resurface.d A couple years ago a high school girl was suspended for her behavior towards authority in the school. There was much debate over whether or not the punishment was too harsh.

Fast forward: she has now completed one year of college and this weekend she made the news again.



The police were called because her and family members were arguing and causing a public disturbance. She was arrested for hitting a police officer. In my opnion this young woman has no respect for authority or anyone for that matter. Somewhere along the line she got the impression that it was okay to treat people this way. I only hope she learns this lesson soon.



The world doesn't care what your problems are. Treat people with respect and courtesy and they will treat you the same. Treating people poorly has NEVER gotten me anywhere.

godsmack666- not as old as reading the same old argements by people who haven't figured it out- its here to stay get used to it

the logical argeument is when a kid is so ingraain with respect they do not speak up when repermanded about homework thats not theirs



when 20 years later it happens at work



the logical argument was the little boy who went off with a complete stranger because his teacher told him to (i guess if he kid had ended up dead you would see my point)



the logical argument is illistrated in dead poet society of what respect also does to people



the logical aregument is in how many junkies and so on were sexually abused and turned to drugs to cope



the thing the author fails to realize as well as all those commenting here is that kids who act the way you all are decribing are the ones being beaten raped emtionally abused and god knows what else behind closed doors at home the babbysitters neighbors, whereever



the problem with the folks here is you don't know and you don't care whats going on you just don't wanna deal with it

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read and comment on this story. I think this discussion has more than run its course. It saddens me that people can't discuss opposing sides of an argument in a RATIONAL manner: without bringing up matters that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC, without twisting the words that have been posted, and without personally attacking the speakers. In a discussion about respect, I think it is important to remember to address each other with respect.



I wrote a story about disrespect in children. I posted my opinion about it, as is my right. I don't expect that everyone will agree with me, but I don't accept being attacked for my opinion, nor do I want to read about others being attacked for theirs.



Some angry statements have been written that have nothing to do with this topic, and as this is no longer a discussion, but a mud-slinging contest, I am withdrawing from this thread.



Thanks again for reading and participating. I wish you all a good day.

Tulick, your broken record is getting old.

yes to giude them to the next pedifile waiting to harm them or to zero assurtiveness or did you not read the examples or do you just not care

Undertone



well the sandbox knows there are not replacement parts for microwaves or that you do not go underan existing house to put in phonewire unlike the 69 year old who told me otherwise but replaced their TV without skipping a beat



the sandbox knows hiting a kid teaches them to hit from watching it in action in my own livingroom with my freid and her 4 year old



the sandbox knows that the spank happy generation haad kids who just didn't get caught did everything to avoid a beating or in the hay day of manners and greatness the 50's and 60's alchoholis was the coping mechnism for such a stiff society



and anyone who thinks thats a good thing the stiff society go watch the movie dead poet society

So what the H**L have your arguments got to do with rudeness. We have been discussing unsolicited rudeness.

Not abuse, its got nothing to do with it. Please go outside and play in your sandbox... where you belong..the big people are having a conversation!!

Undertone



that may be the meaning od dicipline but that news to the people commenting here manners are more likely to get you killed than they are anything else more likely to find you in a shrinks office than anything else



when you CAN"T speaak up to your teacher and say thats not my paper or person X hit person Y first and person Y was defending themselves nothing more



when it translates into work where people can't say to their boss this isn't my mistake you see the initlals here its so and so- thats a paprpharse of a story found right here on EP



or my freind and her 4 year old who hits his bother imitating mommy and daddy who spank



or the same kid who hits his mom and is yes reperrmanded but watching it its like he hits because you hit him DAH !

Wow, like I said you have issues, alot of anger but not much wisdom. We will talk again after you graduate out of the sandbox.

phinix- yeah the neandertthal hit hit hit corwd as if tha is a rolemodel to have that dude has a nursing home and besore in his future- justice is sweet



and just because someone is older dosen't mean you should listen to them olderr people are notorieous for idoicy



and do you know why kids no longer respect their elders BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO RESPECT you know why most kids think people over 30 are out there gone and worthless BECAUSE too many ARE i hve worked with too many people edging toward 50 and 60 working for agencies that they could not keep basic faacts in their head they had no flipping idea how to do ther job and appear generaly stupid because the elders don't listen to the kids so why should the kids d the same so many kids have it more together than their parents its not funny





you have something to offer basic decency is one thing but then again why are you going to be overly nice to some guy who can't get your order right or pocess basic facts afrtrer you've told them 10 times or place them atop your file as not to keep aking them in agencies where you maake an appointment and they know you are comming



why aare you going to saay anything other than hold it lady or hey man when the person charged with helping you starts spouting inccuaries or seems to have little or no knowledge of what they are suppoed to



why is a kid or teen going to listen to older person who says there are replcemnet parts for mcorwaves but knows they must replace a burt out TV (showcsing gentral awareness of tyechnology) WHEN THEY KNOW BETTER why are they going to listen when they are told the phone guy must go under the house/appartment to put in new line WHEN THEY KNOW BETTER



then when the teen says no way man and tries to drop it the older person only becomes more insistaant then wonders why they get dirty looks and aren't called mr. Ms. or ma'am which you can be respectful without and people and kids do but still have to contend with the griping



if you want respect



#1 Stop whinking like a petullent two yeaar old jumping up and down screaming i want respect (thats what this is a written version of)



#2 KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT or prefce it with when i did mine this is what happened or whn ssuch and such had to do it this is how DO NOT over use the pharse when i was your age or when i got my first job they just stop listening because it is too far from what they deal with and odds are you've been taking too long



3 if you are going to talk to teens about the timeless things in life FIRST KNOW ABOUT THEIR WORLD AND KNOW THEM then you can make valid points and comparissons



4 AND MOST IMPORTANT BE RESPECTBLE- practice what you preach haave you act together no drugs excessive drinking don't be a grouchy *** then demand respect don't tell a kid the vaule of work when you haven't held a job most of your life because you won't try (not o be confused with bad luck disability or other issue) don't beat your wife or kids or be cold and aloof and then yammer about respect



kids/teen have a very highly tuned BS meter an hypocrite meter they won't listen to anything that smells like either one

Tulick, you do not have children.... but you do have issues

Discipline means "To Teach" it is not punishment. It is not abuse to teach your children to treat others as you would like to be treated. It is called intelligence. It is called being sentient.

you all just don't get it you all want your butts kissed and the kids today are too intelligent for that and itas all of you who have problems not them

you mean in western society where with the educations they do have they still can't get jobs



examinations or no its not a matter of knowlege its a matter of expeience and a lack of inrnernships a lack of ways to get your foot in the door no matter what you know



so you waanna try again and i love the people who think kids does wrong you hit them- you all make me think of nedanderthals with clubs in their hands



AndrewPenney- if you want to viewm my commemts you can all you have to do is click on show or view whatever option it but thats not what you want



and come talk to me all of you when your kid is abused by someone better yet go talk to the victims of such things go tell them how you made your kids into robots who didn't know how to yell or scream or do anything



how many women do you all know who are people pleasers who don't know how to say no or be aassuritive who have all kinds of problems precicely in paart to the "manners and respect" they were taught



the problem with what you all want to teach is the kid who gets repermaned by a teacher for something they did wrong on a paper and they don't have the guts to say that thats not their paper and what happens when the same thing carries over to work



but by all means chapoin respect no matter what is suffered because of it

Thanks Analyzer. And I agree with you that communication is key. And yes, by the time they start stretching their wings, they WILL make some wrong choices; they need to. That's how they learn. But you see, you are guiding your son back to the good choices, teaching him that wrong choices have consequences. Often times in 7th and 8th grade, kids are showing off for their peers. I'm shocked to see the blatant disregard for authority in the earlier grades, and when parents are notified, to hear the excuses they give.

Exactly, courtesy and good manners, that's what I'm talking about. I'm a little on the heavy side. Well, I had a grade 4 boy call me Fat Albert's wife. I didn't disrespect him before or after this incident. In fact, I think he was shocked that I didn't react. I pulled him aside and quietly told him that his behaviour was disrespectful, and that in future he was to "speak with good purpose" (that's the phrase we use at school).

I share your feelings cagedraven. Back in the 90's, when my children were in elementary school I used to have alot of kids at my house every day. There were two brothers who would say "what's for snack?", as if they were entitled to be fed or something. I would not have minded if they said they were hungry, may I have a snack? Then there was another, he was hungry so I made him a nice hot dog and put it in a clean margerine container... he did not say thank you. He said "you are serving my food in that? I said yes I am now go eat it outside. They get it from the parents though, thats for sure. I do not by the excuse of expressing themselves, they can express themselves with manners, politeness, and that goes double for the adults!!!

And I can tell you, FUIA, in 22 years things haven't gotten better they are definitely worse. The example you shared, is what I see all the time. And it breaks my heart. I'm not really talking about the attitude from the intermediate students, but these are 6, 7, and 8 year old kids. I think it's sad. And in the long run, it will only hurt them, if they grow up to be cynical adults, lashing out on a society that they feel owes them something. Not realizing that negative attitudes and behaviours reap negative repercussions.