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Not The Ordinary

A word for "you".

"You" meaning those who judge our members for their life choices; those who spread verbal abuse like a wild-fire toxin of "word-vomit"; those who use this group as a means to feel better about themselves by feeding their own ego (a selfish action that does not have the target person in mind at all); those who do not care about anything but harming those they disagree with; those who do not care what they say just because they feel they have the "Right" to say it.

 

We don't share our stories in this group so "you" can tell us how we should live our lives.

We don't share our experiences and questions in this group so that "you" can come here and disrespectfully spread your opinion around like you have some kind of weight to shove around.  Like you know anything about where we are coming from at all.. Only those who have actually ever considered abortion know what it feels like to have to choose. Hopefully, "you" will never have to choose.

We don't share our emotions here so that "you" can tell us what we did was wrong and how regretful we should be, or how regretful we are going to be. "You" can't possibly know what we should feel, if what we did or didn't do was wrong, or what we will feel in the future.

We don't share our emotions here so that you can feed your ego and make yourself feel better.

We share our stories for ourselves, for those who are like us and respect us for being who we are, for being brave enough to reach out when we are forever surrounded by controversy because of those like "you" who constantly feel it necessary to judge us and our actions without regard to what we believe or feel ourselves.

We don't post our stories for "you".

 

Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to harass. Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to judge us and our actions. Unless you are here to offer true support, go to one of the EP groups that you can "get by" as much as one can get by with such rude and obnoxiously disrespectful behavior can get by in other groups and leave our group alone so we can have our safe haven away from the crude world of protest signs, name-calling and dirty looks.


This is our group. "Our" meaning those of us who have open-minded questions in considering an abortion; those of us who have had or know someone we love who has had gone through with an abortion and need to know how to deal ourselves and/or how to help them; those of us who understand that it isn't our right to judge and that the intention of this group is for support, not for an everyday "sharing" time where abuse is OK.  Abuse is never OK. Harassment is never OK.  Disrespect will never be tolerated here as long as there are those like us to fight for our safe haven.

 

Let us have our group back, we don't share for you, we share for ourselves and those who belong here.

 

I say this with as much respect as I can muster for someone who outright disrespects the members of our group in heinously crude and obnoxious ways. I say this with as much respect as I can offer someone who only cares about themselves and their own cause against the right to choice that contains ALL CHOICES not just two!

I say this with overflowing respect that I have for the ladies and gentleman who are members of this group. Who belong here. They.. We deserve this place, and I, for one will not stand for anything less then respect when one is commenting here towards our members/potential members.

 

UPDATE: If you would like to debate I'll be more than happy to oblige. If you want to defend actions you have taken because you have taken offense to my words, please send me a pm or link me to a place where you have posted your own thoughts. I must say that I refuse to debate any further in this place for it should be sacred, it should be respected and if the true members don't respect this place as it should be how can we ever expect anyone else to? I have debated here and it was wrong, and I refuse to carry out any more discussions here. I am not hiding the fact that I have done this, just stating that I refuse to do it any longer. That is all for my update, recent questions can be answered in other places if they would like to debate civilly, I refuse to debate any other way so I hope those who want a discussion choose the way they voice their opinions wisely.

hae hae 22-25, F 65 Responses Oct 15, 2009

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Thank you! I have had more than one and I am 43 and it happened more than 20 yrs ago and I still can't stop hating myself. It comes into my mind at the most unexpected times and I have wrongfully started to resent very religious people. I think that I my weakness but I feel like it's all over my face. I always have. It has majorly affected my life and I have / sons that I love dearly. I can't decide if I am pro choice or not. I believe I am but I can't seem to forgive myself and I resent that the man never has to feel this and never will!

Amen to that! I will say I am 100% pro -life, BUT i respect that every woman has a right to chose for herself and who am I to judge what someone else chose. That's what makes me mad about a lot of pro-lifers is that they think that just because they believe something means everyone does....

Thank you for this!(: i hope others that have judged and misunderstood will underatand this message completely. I couldnt have put it in better words. Youre awsome.(:

I read this entire story to my husband. This is inspiring and i want to cry now. I've had the hardest time dealing with the decision i made. It's true,Only those who have actually ever considered abortion know what it feels like to have to choose. Hopefully, "you" will never have to choose. Thank you.

Thanks!!!!

I came to this site for support on making a decision on an abortion.From the start I was being judged.I dont have any support from family or friends,and this was my last option.Reading your post made me feel so much better on making my decision.I've never believed in abortions,but now I know to never say never.I've had friends who've had abortions,and i've never judged them.Thank you so much for your post,because before then I felt like I was all alone.Thanks

I am just 20 years old. I have a little life experiences but I am the first to admit I am still a baby myself. I run to my mom when I have any kind of issue, no matter how small. I am also considering abortion. Oh, did I mention that up until now, being faced with this decision, I was a pro-life and very conservative person. I still don't believe abortion should be used as birth control but looking at my situation I can most definately understand why some woman take this route. I still am unsure as to what my final choice will be but its nice to know that if I do take the route of abortion I would have somewwhere to go without being attacked by others. Peoples who's beliefs I had possibly agreed with up until three days ago.<br />
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This group is a small comfort. <br />
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Thank you :)

Thank you <3

i really think that many pro life should call themselves pro baby, why because they dont care of the mother life...abortion is sad for the women who choose it, no matter the circunstances, i had an abortion for medical reason and also because did not had the support of tha father who harm me very much, i was harmed psychologically by him and my body was having symptoms of miscarriage, so i decided to have an abortion because my health was going to be affecrwd and my possible baby too..it was a hard decision... Also it is a possible maybe, a pregnancy never is 100 percent that a baby will be born, there is always a chance of 25 percent misccarriage, spontaneous abortion, so many women who choose abortion maybe eirher way they also could had an miscarriage,.. Pro life people sometimes prefer that a womem take the risl and dies even with the baby, because the say they have to take the risk, that is so cruel,, that shows they dont care of the mother life..if you really are pro life they should also care of the mother psychological and physical health, because the mother is 100 percent that she can continue living, a possible baby under 3 months is 75 percent a possible baby because it can die of misccariage, on our heart we want the possible baby but our minds tell us is not the moment, my health, my circunstances, an unloving father, made me had that decision...so please pro life people if you really care about life care about the women life too, there is a sad story behind every women<br />
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This will be my first and maybe my only comment I ever post on a group that I have nothing in common with. I wanted to apologize on behalf of the Christians and prolifers that come on and harrass people in this group. Though I do not agree with abortion I think its terrible to judge and lash out at people like I've seen many people on EP do when they comment on stories in this group.<br />
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Recently I have been outside of abortion clinics peacefully praying for the women going into the clinics and refering them to pregnancy resource centers. I do not judge them, many of them enter with heavy hearts and I can't even imagine what they are going through. I care about these women just as much as the babies. Not to say all women regret their abortions, but I feel compassion for anyone who is healing from regret. I wish others could do the same and offer love and support to people who are hurting rather then judge and ridicule. If anyone ever wants to talk you can send me a message.

simply amazing! thank you! these marauders need to remember that crucial to being human is to be loving and to allow others to live in peace..

thank you so much clumsy. You are certainly a strong individual and I appreciate your kind words and understanding. I am sure your mom does too. You are right in that she wasn't being punished, just sometimes things happen that we least expect. I am sorry for the loss, its a terrible thing to have to go through. Thanks again though! If you ever need anything at all don't hesitate a moment!

i totally agree with you

First I'm so sorry you have faced such pain Destiney... I couldn't imagine the strength you must have to face all of it everyday. I do hope you find the peace you are searching for if you have not found that already. I think support groups are amazing tools for moving forward and I thank you for your passion on helping others here.If you need anything at all there are tons of loving people here including myself so don't hesitate a moment. Please also know that nothing that has happened since was a consequence or punishment for your choice. Life gives us crazy obstacles that we must overcome and we are not punished in our life just because we make a choice that we felt was best for us at the time. <br />
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Abortion is not something that one is punished for choosing! It is a perfectly fine choice that does not necessarily need forgiveness for some (including myself) Now some religious groups feel that it is important to ask for forgiveness to move forward but if you feel regret for your choice I feel that the only person or entity you truly need forgiveness from is yourself. I'm not belittling any religion just stating that the world is full of beliefs and we shouldn't preach that one should always ask some higher power for forgiveness if they want to move forward. <br />
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I just want to stress that even though making such a choice is a life changing one, that not everyone finds regret later in life, not everyone finds themselves depressed after their choice. The why to this is that those who do not find regret found acceptance early on, they found peace with their decision before and/or shortly after they made it. Once you are secure in your decision never second guess it for at that time in your life you were certain it was right. What ifs will make you crazy and our lives are way too full of them as it is, so save your sanity and look ahead without wondering what if you had taken the other path. Those paths are not always pretty so to picture such a pretty impossibility is not going to do any good for your mentality.<br />
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I love our members and I just want us all to find the support we deserve here. Take care everyone!

i ALSO WANT TO SAY THIS WAS DONE OUT OF LOVE & NOT HATE. I want u all to know even if it's too late, don't kid yourself get help have a real supprt group w/ a leader make sure ur progressing & moving forward. I'm telling u this is soo much more serious down the road than u can even imagine. I have been there & never want to go back, but if I have to talk about it the rest of my life to help others I sincerely promise I will. I want to stop women of all ages from the many problems u don't ever think will plague u , but might! Drinking, drugs, bad relationships,guilt & loss of youself dignity, self worth, it might affect ur work or families yrs. to come. We need forgiveness & we need to forgive ourselves & maybe whoever else was involved. With Love x0x0x0x0xx0x0x0x0x0x0x0x00x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x0x00x0x0x

Lets be honest here girls. I am a person who has made the choice. THE WRONG CHOICE & why do I know that? It's because I've suffered w/ it for 20 yrs. now. It NEVER gets better OR easier! My friends at the time were a piece of **** who never thought of me, but only what other people would say, mainly my mother & friends. I've spent yrs. blaming people, my Mom & EVERYONE . i HAVE HAD sooooooooooooooooooooo many issues & heart ache from this, I can't even put all my regret into words. Even later having now 3 of my own children, every pregnancy was so painful & I was a basketcase thinking how could I have done this! I cried on the table having the ultrasound that showed the heartbeat the doctor's couldn't find in the office. I felt so lucky & undeserving @ the same time. Each pregnancy my postpartum got worse after & I knew in my heart I was tourchuring myself & couldn't help it. I started to see a counselor & that really didn't help either. I had been to Priests, confession, joined another church, religion, talked to some friends, confessed finally to my mother, none of this helped. I am still learning to try to forgive myself. Finally my 3rd. child was born. She had a problem that was rare & I guess genetic. It has required 3 surgeries so far & more to come. Of course what do u think I did next? I continued to touture myself, blame myself & pray to God how could he do this & was I being punished???? I do know I am not. I love & TRUST IN GOD! I knew that before, that's what caused a lot of my pain cuz I did it anyway, knowing I WAS WRONG & not being sure & scared to death. I can still remember being the last one in a full room that was taken to the back that terrible day. I had all that extra time to back out & I let my stupid friends opinion & my own get the best of me, worrying more about what everyone would say. <br />
Ya know yrs. later I'm still trying to get help & closer more now than ever. I recently found out the boy I loved since middle school, who was the father overdosed & died 2 yrs. ago. I talked to the counselor about that & I wondered If this haunted him also & maybe caused him on this road of destruction. I will never know now, but about 12 or so yrs. ago we did talk & he callled to "kinda of say sorry" hE WAS NEVER REALLY SURE IF "IT" WAS HIS & BLA, BLA, BLA.,wasn't really sure if I was lying, etc. I never did. He wanted to get back w/ me & I actually tried at one point thinking I can make this right! Well, I was very wrong cuz whenever I was with him & he tried to be close to me or even kiss me, all I could do was cry. To be honest I've had problems sexually ever since,too. It's always easier to have sex when drinking to dull the pain. Only now I have to consider a drinking problem too cuz my feelings, no matter whats wrong.... always goes back to underlying issues never resolved. I am going to go to compassion pregnancy center & try & help as many girls as I can & share my story. I have learned the only way to heal is to forgive yourself & help others!!!!!!!!!!!<br />
I can't wait for this long OVERDUE freedom!!!~!!!! There is a class there for recovery which of course I have to go thru first! Please think girls. This is FOREVER! iT WILL never go away. And guess what You will NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!!!!! iT IS POSSIBLE TO PUT IT OFF LIKE ME, ONLY TO SUFFER FOR 20 + YRS. We need to come togther & be real. This is painful in sooooooooooooo many ways. For God sakes if anything have the baby (it is a baby!) & give it up. U can grow up & meet later or not whatever u choose, but u will never be condemed that way cuz u will have given the BEST GIFT...............................LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0X0

thank you so much dani!!! I agree with you a hundred percent and thank you for your support!<br />
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Honestly, we won't be able to get our group back without everyone behind us. I know it wasn't up to us to have others come in here and attack our members, it wasn't up to us to decide if they were allowed to do so or allowed to stay here and continue such actions. However, it is up to us to stand against it, to either continue to ask for peace with each and every individual like I have done with many or continue to bring this up to EP. I feel that its time to take our group back and if we have to petition to have a moderator who can kick someone out for inappropriate behavior then so be it.. We shouldn't have to deal with any sort of hurtful words whether they be outright hurtful or passive aggressively insulting..

Thanks for updating your story hae. I have to say that I am sure I am not the only one who is getting tired of all of the debates and hurtful words from prolifers being posted on here. I read all the new posts and half the time they are not even worth responding to. It is sad because many of us come here for support not a debate. <br />
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Another thing that I have to just get out is I am really tired of prolifers suggesting adoption all the time. We arent stupid. The same three options have been available for forever! Keep the baby, abortion, and adoption. Just as abortion isnt for everyone, adoption isnt either. It is not a new concept that they are teaching to us. We know the options. When people have come here, they have usually already had their abortion or are very close to it. Dont try to tell us what we should have done. You arent us, you arent in our positions, and chances are you havent given up a baby for adoption. It is much easier said than done.<br />
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When I first came here, which wasnt long ago, I found a lot of support through the great women and their stories on here. I see hae and eliza fighting a lot for this group and appreciate them all a lot for it. But we shouldnt have to fight. This isnt a debate. This is support. If you dont like it go somewhere else! Oh yah, like your own support group for prolifers!! We stay out of yours...stay out of ours. You are not doing anything but bringing down people who have made their decisions. <br />
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I am not posting this to have it be pulled apart and analyzed. I dont want a debate over this. I just want to speak for those of us who dont comment much because we are afraid of the responses. Dont you think that we should be able to comment in our own group? Its pretty sad how many people have been drivin away by this abuse from others when they came here for support. Ironic isnt it?

It makes them look pretty silly if you ask me. Fair enough they have a point to get across, but to start attacking..nahuh, that's not on.

thank you lala!!!! love ya girl! <br />
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Its just amazing that when they have forums of their own where it is appropriate to say such or ask such, they instead choose here? Logically it doesn't make their argument any stronger by putting it in the face of those who have stated time and time again we do not agree!

Honey, I found it!<br />
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Those who have use this story to take out your frustrations, stop attacking hae and write in the pro-life group.

lgmaryland I will not sit here and act like we haven't talked before.. You know your questions are entirely inappropriate and I refuse to answer them. <br />
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Now if you want to discuss the topic of abortion go to a place that is open for discussion. I have created a group that can discuss anything anyone wants so check that out write a story, but don't come in here and deliberately disrespect me and our true members on this story. I have no idea what made you decide to attack me now but I would appreciate it if you would just walked away from this attempt at intentionally creating drama and hurting others. All future disrespectful comments will be deleted and if you continue to passively insult people, including myself I have no problems in blocking you.

ligmaryland, your questions are something you should ask your doctor in private. They are trained to answer any of these issues that concern you.

raises hand do you believe that an abortion can be performed no matter what month the mother is in? and at what month is a baby able to feel the excruciating pain of the proceedure? and is it grown up or mature to get rid of a life just because it is somehow in convenient? those are my questions. please answer.

Glad to help. Thanks for the hugs mseliza. I wish the best for any women who is faced with such a difficult decision. I know it is not easy and they don't need anyone casting guilt their way. They should be able to have a safe zone where they are free from those immature tactics. Peace!

thank you!! so very much!! Eliza said it all porfavor! Darlene also, thank you very much.. it seems to me that people forget to think before they submit their "thoughts" on the matter... <br />
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Please everyone who thinks this story is pointed at them and if you do think that it probably is, think before you speak it is a support group, not a discussion group where posting your thoughts or stance on abortion is really appropriate when speaking to someone opening up about their emotions on their own personal experience. <br />
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thanks again to those who support our group and our members, you are very kind people who are truly appreciated

I have never been in a situation to consider abortion. But I believe in the freedom of choice. The law gives us that right. At least in the US. You have written a great post. I hope the radicals get the message.

Porfavor -- Thank you for your comments. You made many, many good points. I think I speak for most women in this group when I say your comment & defense of the members of this group is very much appreciated!! *hugs*

WTFWJD?<br />
I agree with Hae!<br />
I don't claim to be pro-life nor pro-choice, I consider myself pro-sanity. I agree that the anti-abortion preaching does not belong in this forum. That is like kicking someone who is down. It is a cheap-shot and seems unchristian at the core. I think that most people visit or join this group seeking solace, support, and understanding. I think we should give them that out of common human decency and respect. Perhaps you could look at this forum as a sacred place for them. You wouldn't want fellow parishiners all weighing in at the confessional while you shared your transgressions with the priest.<br />
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I do not know why some people choose to jam the bible down someone's throat or beat them over the head with it. I view the bible as a helpful tool or map of sorts. Sure, It can help us lead the way to happy life for all. For Pete's sake, I do not need anyone admonishing me for making a wrong turn (RandMcNally volume 6, chapter 13, verse A3, clearly shows the road goes east...). Maybe I got lost on purpose so I can use my GPS. The bible guides us on how to get-to-heaven. I don't believe that it was intended to be used as a tool for ensuring certain travelers arrive at destination hell on earth. WTFWJD? Do you believe that Jesus would have treated anyone like a convict due to his convictions?<br />
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Some people might not subscribe to the bible. Maybe the bible doesn't have all the answers for every person in every situation in a language they understand. Maybe we are smarter than our ancestors were able to articulate. Maybe it is outdated a few hundred years. I remember when our ancestors created airports with no TSA security too. My how that has changed to adapt to modern events. My point is, I do not think that it is right to make any of these EP members suffer because of a bunch of stories you read from a couple thousand years ago. My understanding is that Christ was a healer, and this EP group is a place of healing. <br />
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You probably wouldn't like some athiests to come "offering help" in the bible study groups or in your local church, or in your kid's schools. Hey they have convictions too and just want to "help" and provide support.<br />
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If you are a true Christian then you believe that Christ is in all of us. So don't you realize how condescending it is to preach the bible to to another person? Don't you realize that by admonishing those who have abortions is exactly the same as making Jesus suffer to death on the cross? How many times are you going to kill this poor guy, because of your convictions? Why don't you keep your convictions to yourself and let the Lord do His work. Do you realize that if your convictions are to only make right turns then you will just go in circles? For the bible to be used properly you need to hold it in one hand and a mirror in the other hand. It is a tool to help yourself, not a weapon to hurt others.<br />
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I was raised catholic and have strong faith in God. However, despite 20+ years of religion/catechism studies, I do not recall ever seeing anything in the bible declaring that bible is to be used as a beat-stick or like a bar of soap. I don't remember any of my parishes recommending that we go judge and admonish the world. <br />
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If you are not willing and able to provide financial support, moral support, spiritual support, and full attention to the unborn child for his/her lifetime then don't condemn others for their decisions.

CJ you are amazing.. I could not have expressed what you said any better.. Thank you for that.. so very much. You make EP and the world better by existing. Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

Hae, as always you are right on spot my dear!<br />
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I personally have never made the choice to have one. But I seriously considered it when I found out I was pregnant this last time. I'm not proud, but we going through a bankruptcy, lost our home, and were living off our family and friends good graces. How we could bring another child into that? Well, as you know hae, she is now 6 months old. <br />
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I am also a christian. But the God I believe in stands by you in the tough times, through the hard decsions and loves you no matter what decision you make. And I try to live my life that way too. I believe you should never ever judge someone else until you have walked in thier shoes....so to speak.<br />
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I wish people would let go and let God be God instead of trying to play him. Yeah know? He's not going to abandon anyone for something like this. Geesh! <br />
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I think it's naive and immature for others to assume they know what is best for any other person. <br />
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I am glad that EP has forums such as this for people to get support, help, and their questions answered. I think it's sad when others have to ruin that because they believe that their way of thinking is the right and only way.<br />
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*hugs* to all of you here who have to endure these immature, naive, bullies.

thank you binky!!!!! :D I will always stand up for everyone here! We deserve our safe place.

Completely agree! And you said it with more respect then i would, but thank you for standing up for everybody!

Thank you so very much CC!! I understand the frustration. I agree with you completely. It is no one's right or responsibility to force their own religion and opinions upon another person. Especially when they already know that person is of different beliefs and opinions!<br />
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It really is so disrespectful and belittling for someone to assume that another does not know what their life decisions entail for themselves. We are not children and we don't need someone coming here and telling us what OUR CHOICE was, especially when what is being said is based on that person's personal opinion and not fact. We shouldn't have to be disrespected by those who think they know better than we do for our own lives. We shouldn't be degraded by those who think they have some moral and intellectual high ground over us. It completely disregards our rights as people and as citizens. <br />
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What is worse is the defense that they "do it for us"! How false that is when everything that is being said is for the pure and sole benefit of the person speaking such disrespect. <br />
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thank you so much for your support! Your comments are always so rational and compassionate for all people. I will be sure to check out

hae~I have had the same head-banging arguments with this person in another post...also a story in this group. <br />
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The point I tried to make to her~and to anyone else of her opinion~is that ABORTION IS A LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE. End of argument. NOBODY has the right to insert their opinion about the issue unless asked for it. Even the person who commented so respectfully about being there if someone wanted to hear "the truth" or wanted help, ...well, sorry, but her truth is not the truth. Her opinion is not needed in the matter of another person's choice in regards to abortion. It is none of her business. In the same way that it is not socially acceptable to walk up to a stranger and tell them they need to lose weight. If a person needs help making a decision about abortion, more likely than not they will go to family and loved ones, not christians that condemn and judge and make them feel guilty.<br />
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Women would not feel the terrible guilt about this issue were it not for christians.....<br />
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You have written a wonderful piece. You should check out WhoMadeWho's post in this group also. You both did a wonderful job capturing how you feel and how most of us pro choice people feel. Thank you.

Again, your belief in what abortion is has no business in this group. Respect that. <br />
Not trying to tell you that you are wrong, or that you have no right to believe what you want to. Just that your stating it here is inappropriate. Understand that. <br />
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I am not hostile in the least. I speak with passion but I never call your character disgusting. I say your actions are inappropriate how is that hostile? <br />
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You cannot argue that you respect someone and then disrespect them with your actions. You realize I am a member of this group and see your other comments here?<br />
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Do not insult me with any attempt to insinuate that I will ever possibly regret my choice. You have no idea what it was like for me, or what I have been through or understand my circumstance. So please, don't insult me with attempts to say you even understand just because you know someone.<br />
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I have compassion for your family member, she could find support here if she needed. <br />
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I will only agree with true support. The way you speak to many of the women here is only for yourself and you never speak as if you are really thinking of them. <br />
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You should respect other people regardless of your belief. Again your OPINION ON ABORTION has no right to be here! <br />
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Please don't try and tell me what pregnancy centers do. I already know what they do and it is not always for the good of the individual. Biased support is never for the individual themselves. Only for the goal of the one "offering" this kind of biased support agenda.<br />
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Again, an embryo is never declared a person. Only an infant that can survive on its own is ever defined a person therefore there is no stripping of rights. Therefore, there is no genocide.<br />
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It is not killing. It is terminating a pregnancy by choice. That is how it is defined in our society. You cannot change this for any other definition (such as yours) violates a person's inalienable right to their own religion. Again, you can have your beliefs, they just don't have any business here unless you plan to voice it respectfully.<br />
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I may disagree with you but thats not my point. It has never been my point. You just chose to debate that instead. You have no right to force your opinion on abortion into this group. It is made for those dealing with abortion and we don't need the protester here in our safe haven. So either put down the picket sign or leave. <br />
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Example of what you could say:<br />
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Poster: "I do not regret my choice I am doing fine now even if I feel that this choice may be with me for the rest of my life. I have my moments where I think what-if but I know what I did was right for me."<br />
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You: "I find myself turning to my own faith when I feel down about circumstances in my life. I may be different than yourself but I feel that you can get through this a stronger person. If you have faith give it to God. If you do not, search for support in those who care about you. If you ever need a non-judgmental ear to listen I am here anytime."<br />
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This is how a person with your beliefs and stance on abortion SHOULD comment here in our group. However, you keep pushing how you have every right to tell a woman that the choice she ALREADY made was the wrong one, or what you think it was in your own opinion. How disrespectful is that!? You don't respect a woman's right to choose like you say if you say such things to her! <br />
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I don't dislike you, I have not been "vile" towards you, or even really that hostile. I have... called you out on more than one occasion for raising a completely bogus assumption paired with a highly flawed argument but that is all. You have contradicted yourself quite a lot throughout all of your comments and it is not my fault that you chose to get into a debate with me and used those faulty statements to defend your actions. You can attempt to be civil now and I will most certainly accept that, however, I refuse to accept your opinions being forced upon my friends. They do not deserve your picketing in our group. You are invading it with opinion and that is what the problem here is. Stop focusing on victimizing yourself for having a belief in God and an opposite opinion. That is not the issue here. It is where and to whom you are forcing that said opinion upon. Respect them by being unbiased when you speak to them. Give them a choice to hear what you have to say on your faith or abortion. They will ask you what you personally believe if you allow them to talk to you first. Just don't force them to hear it when it is completely unneccesary. Don't belittle them with your assumption that they were mislead somehow. Don't belittle them with your assumption that you know anything about abortion just because you have seen one person go through regret because of their choice. You really don't have a clue. If you did, you wouldn't be acting so selfish with your need to post your opinion in inappropriate groups. You would understand better than you portray you do with your actions. <br />
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Respect women by selflessly putting your opinions to the side for a change and actually show them the respect they deserve.

I believe that life begins at conception so it is not a potential life, it is a life...period. I am pro-life so the argument that an embryo is not life is never going to resonate with me. On the issue of abortion, we are on opposite sides completely. I again, refuse to see my comments as disrespectful or forcing anything on anyone. Nothing that you are really going to say will change that. Out of every single person that I have communicated with, you are by far the most hostile. I am completely fine with someone not choosing God, obviously you didn't read my entire comment. I still pray for them, you bet, but I respect their choice because it is a GOD GIVEN choice, just like the right to life is a GOD GIVEN right. So, I will stand against abortion until the day that I die, and will continue to reach out to women who are contimplating it or have had one. My sister-in-law had an abortion 10 years ago and is still dealing with the regret. You may not personally regret it, fine, but one day you might so just know that please. I am here only to help and offer my support, whether you agree with that or not.<br />
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I am not respectful of abortion as a choice. I never once pretended that I was, what are you referring to here? I state openly that I am against abortion....look at my name here. However if a woman has had one I do not disrespect her. I do not promote it as a good choice, but I still respect her rights. I hate the sin...not the sinner, I am a sinner myself, this would be totally hypocritical. Even pregnancy centers will give out information on abortion procedures from completely neutral sources, but will not refer. It is our right to stand against these so called "procedures." Women deserve to know more than "it's a safe legal choice." The choice is still theirs. They are the ones that must live with it. Just because it is accepted in society, they have a right to hear BOTH sides, pro-life also.<br />
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My comparrison of the Holocaust, slavery and abortion stands....declaring PEOPLE (HUMAN BEINGS), as non-persons as a way to kill or do whatever they please to them. A sorry attempt to justify killing. We are all "tissue" the way that abortion clinics define babies. It may be legal, but it is not right.<br />
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Again, I am not invading your haven just because I view abortion differently, like I said I hate the sin, not the sinner. I don't hate you or anyone else. My comments are not by any means hateful, again, you just don't agree with them, and that is your right, go ahead and exercise it, by all means.

First you really need some help defining "support" and the act of "forcing" but mainly on how to share God as support.<br />
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1. Sharing God as support does not mean you tell someone that the only way they can get through something hard is by following your God. Think here, you can't argue that you respect other people when talking to others in such a way. <br />
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2. Telling someone I have found God carries me through things that I find difficult to handle is how to share God but not force religion upon someone. (You cannot reference abortion because you have never even considered one and would be outright lying if you said you understood this person or their circumstance at all) <br />
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Second thing to address:<br />
I am not the master of comments, however, I will defend my friends against this kind of harassment that is only considered partial harassment. You should not say anything just because you "can". You cannot just be rude to people without others standing against you. What you are doing is wrong and cruel and completely unchristian like in behavior, giving that the "Christian way" is free from judgment and forced beliefs. Unless of course you entertain ideas of the Crusades as the correct way to share your faith with others.. Then I would worry for your mental stability. (not saying you do, just emphasizing what your comments come off towards others, especially when you defend them in this manner)<br />
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Third: I didn't mean to laugh at that "you think you are saved so you must not think you have to share with others" Well I do share with others, when its appropriate. There is a difference when being respectful of free will and sharing one's faith and pushing it upon people who ALREADY have their own opinions and do not wish to explore others at the present time. You do not follow this and stated that you feel you can do whatever you want regardless of the specific person in which you are commenting towards. Well you can't. You are forcing YOUR religion as the only way, and obviously it is NOT the ONLY way due to free will. You can't tell someone that and be even logical! No one is going to take you serious. (much like the NGNM forum, you don't think telling someone that God is the only way to a person who has already stated that they do not believe in God is actually respectful of their free will do you?) Please tell me you see the flaws in this behavior.<br />
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Again, its not the act of sharing faith that is the problem. It is the WAY you are doing it without any regard for who you are speaking towards. I have been over this and over this again with you. Just because you can technically say something doesn't mean you are respecting that person when you say it! <br />
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These arguments are really flawed and I feel you are really reaching with them. Unless that is you are not a logical thinking person, which I assume you are. Start respecting others by being open to their beliefs and RESPECTFULLY DISCUSS YOUR OWN WHEN APPROPRIATE. There is a time for it, I mean unless again, you believed in the forcing of people into Christianity? When you tell someone "the only way to heal, or the only way to raise one's kids correctly is to bring again, YOUR God into the picture", you are insinuating that you are the only one with a proper religion and belittling and insulting parents who do not share in the same faith or interpretation of faith that you have. These statements is the act of disregarding the free will of the person you are speaking towards. You are disrespecting them by speaking in such a way towards them and more times than not you are going to be met with insulted individuals. <br />
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Please stop trying to hide behind this tattered curtain of a "God Warrior" It really isn't helping your argument because one can see right through it. <br />
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An embryo is not a defined person. It is defined as a possibility of a person (one in development). Again, its nothing like the Holocaust or Genocide. You should really fact check the people's statements you copy. There is no dehumanizing and you are disrespecting each and every single woman who has had an abortion by assuming this as well as those who have been politically persecuted for being within a certain group of people! <br />
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Don't you see?! Not only is it incorrect by definition, it is the outright disrespect of women who have chosen abortion!!! You are saying we are cold, you are saying we dehumanize and mistreat something when you say we have chosen a genocide! Really please think before you speak. You obviously do not understand one lick about abortion or what its like to make such a choice, so stop commenting on it in such a way! You have no clue what you are talking about and are only copying those who also don't have the first hint of a clue on what the process of choosing abortion is really like! It is a very SELFLESS decision giving that NO ONE, NOT ONE LOGICAL AND SANE person actually wants to have an abortion! It is not a choice that one jumps up and down for when it is made. It is accepted giving the circumstance of one's life. You cannot judge them for that by telling them its a wrong choice. You cannot disrespect their logically thought out choice by telling them they were mislead when you don't have a clue on whether or not they actually have been mislead. You cannot disrespect their free will by telling them that your God is the only way to heal or what you think your God has to say on abortion. (your telling them its a religiously defined murder). <br />
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"sharing an opposite point of view" or not, you are being disrespectful in the way you choose to do this. Your religious interpretation is unneeded to offer support unless you state "in my translation this is how I see it... you do not have to see it this way" prior to speaking such comments if you feel you must. However, you are not giving people that sort of option and therefore not the respect they deserve. You are speaking to them as if what you speak is not personal opinion whatsoever and that is what is wrong about your commenting here in general. <br />
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This argument you are making as a whole, is disrespectful, illogical, and outright maddening. <br />
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I am telling you from a woman who belongs here! That you are not helping anyone with the sorts of comments! Truly someone may overlook your comments if they believe as you do, but for those who don't you keep getting addressed and you start whole arguments with the women you are speaking towards! Think about this? If what you were doing was ok why are multiple people constantly at odds with you here? Serious? I am NOT painting you anything, I am telling you what is happening when you refuse to think of anyone but yourself! <br />
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Since when do you assume the right to tell someone what is right and wrong for their life? You cannot do this for it is again, disrespectful. Your opinion on abortion and how wrong it is morally and religiously is IRRELEVANT in this forum. When will you actually understand that support is selfless and not selfish. You may feel powerful when you force people to listen to your religious interpretations on a subjective/INDIVIDUAL matter but that is not the point of this group. It is not for you, so I feel you should find other means to get your ego pump. <br />
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I have never once told anyone to have an abortion, so where do you get off by insinuating that being respectful of all choices, including abortion is telling them to have one? This is one reason your arguments look so illogical and poorly thought-out. Letting someone know that this is their choice to make and that if they need any guidance or a Christian ear (IF THEY DO NOT OPENLY STATE THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN) that you are there if needed. How is this telling someone you are ok with abortion? It is not, so let them make their own choice and respect their right to free will by not forcing your opinion on abortion or religion when offering support. Think OF OTHERS before you speak for yourself!<br />
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You only push people away when you force God upon them. You do not plant any seed. You kill any seed that could have already been planted! Again, stop being so selfish with your commenting and think of others first! <br />
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I have every person who disrespects our forum in mind. Go read my other stories!!!! Serious, you should get to know someone by looking into what they have written previously, before stating such outlandish accusations. Again, I would have told you in some way that you were my topic. I have not done this, therefore this is general. If you think you have done some things that fit my story why don't you consider what I have said? Or at least address specific points within it!<br />
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We go through this disrespect every day in real life. We deserve our safe haven. NOW let us have that, choose. You are disrespecting us with your false support and most of us can see right through it. <br />
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I'm not vile towards you... ? You do know what the word "vile" means don't you? However, thanks for calling me disgustingly bad or morally abhorrent! I personally find that quite "vile" when its completely unnecessary! <br />
Please again, think before you speak. It is wise to not use a word if you do not understand its definition.

Maybe you don't think God is the only way to heal, but He happens to be the support that I offer. I am well within my rights to offer whatever support that I see fit. You are not the master of all comments, they do not all have to be screened by you and approved. I feel that sharing God is support. I am not forcing Him on anyone, I am sharing, it is really to bad that you don't like it but you should really get over it. If anything, you say that your a christian, so your saved right? So if you know that your going to heaven, you don't feel that it's appropiate to share that with others? Are we not supposed to share our faith, spread the gospel, speak of the good news? I am not disrespectful unless you consider telling people about God disrespect. Also, I was not proven wrong on any argument, I was simply pointing out that the conclusion that you blindly came to was rediculous. The Holocaust and abortion both dehumanized a group of PEOPLE. Go ahead and attempt to PAINT me as however you wish. As i said before, I am not here to gain favor with you or anyone else, I comment in this group because of my convictions. I want to help women who have been through abortions, I refuse to let you describe my intentions as any different.<br />
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I'm not going to go back and waste my time quoting you, but you have also said more than once that you were done with this, and here you are. <br />
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You have no proof that my take on abortion is not right. Just because you and others believe that abortion does not take an innocent life does not mean you are correct. You have absolutely no science to back that up. In fact there is more science to back up my beliefs than yours. The only thing that you have on your side is pop culture (something I wouldn't be to proud of). I am not only sharing my beliefs in this group, I am offering a form of support that you don't agree with. If anyone is intollerant, it is you.<br />
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I would never say that abortion was the right choice at that time, to me it is never the right choice. I feel that true support is truth with love. You see the truth your way and I see it mine. That doesn't make yours right and mine wrong. I see a good comment as sharing the love of God with a woman who has had an abortion. If she rejects it, I still planted that seed. I also see a good comment as sharing with a woman whos considering abortion that there are other options, and that God loves her and her baby.<br />
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I can read between the lines here, this story may not be only about me, fine, but come on. I think you had me in mind when you wrote it. Which is fine, I'm not upset over that. I just don't see why your so vile towards me.

I didn't dedicate a story just for you ( I would have stated so in the story had I done so)... This is for everyone who disrespects us not just you. (You are not our first)<br />
I would be sarcastic here but I feel that is entirely unnecessary giving this assumption you have made explains itself all on its own... <br />
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God is not the only way to heal and you disrespect other people who do not believe as you do by telling them the only way to heal is to have faith in your God and not their own faith. People don't believe as you do, so respect that and keep your ignorant assumptive statements out of the equation. <br />
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You disrespect others when you ignorantly claim abortion to be something it truly is not. You don't understand abortion, you have admitted your only arguments come from other people that you blindly trust. Someone proves you wrong with one argument and you blame it on the guy you heard it from. I would suggest you take responsibility for what you say, or don't repeat it next time. <br />
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You disrespect others when you assume you have the right to say anything you want just because you can say it. <br />
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Lastly, I need to inform you that it is unnecessary and disrespectful to tell her such things. What you feel happened to her is irrelevant and more hurtful than supportive. Proper support would be:<br />
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"you are very strong and I hope you are doing well after such a traumatic experience." <br />
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You note the seriousness of the situation without forcing any preconceived notions upon her. Comments like these are best because you don't assume that your beliefs are most important here, for they are not. Hers are, so respect that. <br />
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Respect her right to believe what she wants. Respect her right to heal as she feels is best for her. And most importantly RESPECT HER RIGHT TO CHOOSE, by not trying to tell her what she did wasn't the best choice!!!! <br />
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PS: Most recent contradiction<br />
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1) "I am done explaining myself to you....." -CL003 (you)<br />
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2) "I said everythimg that I needed to say to you. We are going in circles, so why don't we just agree to disagree? This is really old." CL003 (you again)<br />
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Really fail to see where you haven't told me you have tired of debating with me. However this is only AFTER instigating the debate further when I hadn't responded for a few days with this (twice): I remember you ate these words... <br />
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1) "Way to wave the white flag hae......" CL003 (well aren't you just a charmer!)<br />
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And your most recent statement:<br />
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"I never said that I was tired of you"-CL003 (that's right you ,again)<br />
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so which is it? I patiently await the explanation of this particularly humorous contradiction. <br />
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This group isn't for you and your need to share your beleifs. It is for those who have had or are considering abortion. <br />
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Therefore, I must thank you for proving my argument that you are only here for your own needs and no one else's. You do not have a care in the world for the people you are talking to, only what you believe they have done or might do. This is selfish and you should find another group if this is your only motivation for being here.<br />
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EDIT: Last question:<br />
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If you honestly thought this story was about you why haven't you addressed it from the start? I find it quite funny that you have ignored my story all this time and just NOW bring it up....

You cannot expect to dedicate a story to me and then expect me to not comment on it. I never said that I was tired of you. I'm not and most of my "rants" came after yours. We have been going back and forth. My comment to that girl was written because I feel that she has been victimized 2 times. I believe that in order to support her, I had to say that. I believe that abortion leaves scars in one form or another always, until people are healed and the only way to heal is giving it to God and letting Him heal you. This goes not only for abortion but for everything else as well. I am not forcing God on anyone, I am just putting it out there because it is important to me to share my faith as a christian. I believe that abortion hurts and only God can heal, so I'm sharing that. That is not disrespectful

Please tell me this:<br />
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If you actually cared about the women you were talking about/to why would you ignore their story and go into a rant. I can pull many comments of yours where you just ranted about what you believed and not really pay any mind to the beliefs let alone the actual story of the person you were speaking toward in this group. <br />
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example: "I am not sorry... I had an abortion because I was raped at a very young age.."<br />
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PAST TENSE. Meaning it already happened, its done and over with no reason to talk about what could have been done. That is just plain insensitive and rude! Especially giving that its none of your business on what they should have done. PS: telling someone other options after the fact is telling them what they should have done in a passive aggressive way and its just plain disrespectful. <br />
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Your comment: "I know a lady who was raped and gave the baby up for adoption. etc etc etc on how one should have continued the pregnancy because abortion is wrong.. etc etc etc.. " I mean do you even read the stories you comment on comprehensively? <br />
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Tell me where you actually convey caring for women with comments such as this! You support no one when you speak only for your own need to feel important to some cause that you represent so poorly giving you don't believe in forming valid arguments when you try to debate in its favor. Your words not mine. I am just commenting on past statements. <br />
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I don't regret my abortion, never had, never will. Why? Because I was sure of why I had to. I am sure that I did the right thing for my own circumstance. I may have hated the fact that I was in such a position, I may hate the fact that I wasn't ready to do what I wanted to do more than you could ever imagine or understand giving you will never know what its like to be in my shoes. However, that does not mean you have the right to tell me what I should have done in my circumstance. <br />
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Don't tell me that adoption is a better choice for myself when I have already decided it was not. I have made my choice and to rant on and on about how wrong abortion is to me and woman like me IS DISRESPECTFUL. Do you hear what you are saying in your head? Do you comprehend what your actions show of your own character.<br />
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I haven't called you names, I have stated what your behavior portrays. If it just so happens to be true of your character and personality, than that is just an appropriate interpretation on the evidence given through your actions.<br />
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I do not hate people, but I do find certain actions unacceptable. Not being sensitive to others and only caring about ones own self and their own opinion is something I find unacceptable in this group. Be ready to be tired of me for as long as you show disrespect to our members here. I will always stand up for them as passionately as I have already. <br />
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If you were truly tired of the debate you would have just let it go and not have instigated and therefore escalated it further by coming to my own story and starting it all over again. You would have left it alone unless I responded to it in my own time. However, you did not so now your statements about how tired you are of debating about it with me now are quite amusing. Tell me, is it because you just couldn't handle the fire you started when you took it upon yourself to speak to me so snidely in my very own story when I apparently wasn't paying enough attention to you in the other forum?

Insults are insults, no matter how they are worded or written. Just because something is worded a certain way, does not change the meaning of it. You have insulted me but unlike you, I know how to suck it up and move on. Well, to me the scriptures that refer to us as in the womb are just as straight forward. I am no where near self-righteous. I never claimed to be perfect, I wish you would quit going back to this as if it's true. Just because I've never had an abortion does not mean that I'm perfect. If I was, a Savior would not be needed, right? You always resort to name calling, and then say I'm the insulting one. Besides, nothing that you accuse me of being could be further from the truth. I speak to PLENTY of women who have had abortions, and they are feeling very badly. I don't just have a heart for the unborn, I have a heart for women suffering(and men) from abortion. I don't hate or think badly of you or anyone else. I hate abortion...period. It ruins lives sometimes. It is not just a small percentage, if anything is propaganda, it's that statement. There will just be no end to you attempting to categorize me as heartless, unsensitive and whatever else. That is perfectly fine, as I said, I really could care less how you view me, I know the truth about myself. We obviously feel completely differently about many things, and are both very opinionated. However, I fail to see where I have disrespected anyone. My views may not be "politically correct" and actually, to me that is a good thing, especially in the times we are living in today. I am just tired of dealing with this. I said everythimg that I needed to say to you. We are going in circles, so why don't we just agree to disagree? This is really old.<br />
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Eliza- I havn't commented on that many stories in this group. I have commented on a few where women were hurting, clearly by their stories. Everything I said was appropiate. I will admit, my first time with you was a bit unpleasent. Sometimes I let my emotions take over, see, I really hate abortion, not anyone who has had one. Sorry if I offended you. I speak to women who have gotten abortions and ones who are contimplating it, with an ultimate goal of ministering, never manipulating. Obviously the decision is ultimately theirs. I suppose that you do not believe in God, but I do and honestly, I read these stories and pray WAY more than comment. It may sound stupid or whatever to you, but I do pray for all of these women on EP. Everyday since I found this site, to me, that is the best support that I can give. Abortion, to me is designed to hurt. Again, that is how I feel.

Thank you so very much Eliza! I have been saying this time and time again and you wrote it so eloquently! :) I thank you for the support here! I am so glad such a compassionate and strong woman like yourself as a friend of mine!!

CL003--I think it's really interesting how you presume to know how most women feel after an abortion. I doubt you know <i>anything</i> about how a woman feels after an abortion. Many of the women in this group come here for support because they are hurting. For the most part the only stories we see on here are of women hurting because this has become a support group/safe haven for the women that need that. They seek out this group for the sole purpose of having a safe place to talk. <br />
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There is a large segment of the population of women who have aborted that do not regret their decision, and we don't hear from too many of those women in this group [although there are some here, myself included]. I think you're basing your opinion off stories from a small sampling of the population that has experienced this. And you're probably reading pro-life sites who use that idea as propaganda to aid their argument.<br />
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Your comments are disrespectful & have been since you started posting on here. [case & point: "blah blah blah" ... seriously?? Is that a respectful & logical way to carry on a debate? Maybe for a 4th grader!]<br />
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It's very strange how obsessed you are with this group. Many members in this group find your attitude very sanctimonious. Last I knew, your god would frown upon your behavior toward fellow human beings. You can't pick & choose which parts of the bible you want to live by & preach to others.

Stop being so condescending and self-righteous, not one person is going to take you serious while you are acting in such a way, therefore everything you say is just wasting your time and breath. Also, You will not harrass people in such ways for it is prohibited by the EPs terms of service. Now if you are going to comment on my stories you are going to respect me, just as you should with everyone else. If you fail to do this then other actions will be deemed neccessary on my part.<br />
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So much for being a self proclaimed Christian Chooselife. Your actions depict that of a bitter, cruel, insensitive person who keeps reiterating how she only cares about herself and her own opinion. Thanks for proving everything I have concluded about you with such a pure example in your behavior here. There is nothing Christian like in your behavior. Screaming how Christian you are over other people is not how God intended people to be representatives of Christianity giving how doing so contradicts every other direct scripture in the bible that speaks of keeping away from self-righteousness and judging other people foolishly. Note: those are plainly stated and no interpretation is needed to understand, just an ability in appropriate reading comprehension so I don't find it an issue to state this.<br />
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Do not comment here unless you are going to behave like a proper adult and respect other people. (something you should have learned say... in kindergarten). Again, read this and leave my story as well as others who actually belong and/or respect this place for what it is alone, unless you can keep from such self-centered, egotistical antics of course. I don't have a problem with respectful sensitive commenting, that is if you have the heart and compassion to actually achieve such selflessness.

blah, blah, blah. I was not disrespectful, and will continue to comment on whatever I wish no matter if you "stand up against it" or not. I am not here seeking your approval. Yes, most women do regret it, some just hold it in or push it down. I am done explaining myself to you. Hopefully one day, you will really read your bible and come to your senses and stop standing up for something that goes against our God. True wisdom comes form Him, not anywhere else.

I apologize, the typo was a little confusing. Actually that person you are speaking of for an example is a very kind individual who may sometimes say things in an odd way, but is most always kind and nurturing to those he speaks to, especially in this group. None of the women have had issues with his commenting. However, MANY have had problems with your own commenting here. What does that say about your comments? <br />
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Men are allowed to speak here because, face it, men have to deal with partners having an abortion or considering abortion. It may be a woman's choice by bodily right, but as a partner who contributed to such a circumstance, some feel very strongly for what it going on and deserve a right to comment here as well. As long as a PERSON, I'm non-gender specific because I hold no prejudice against people unlike myself, is sensitive, kind, and respectfully unbiased to our members then they have the right to comment here. Those who cannot follow such tact should not be commenting here at all. <br />
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Please explain where women are not receiving both sides of the argument, unless you are speaking your opinion. Everyone here receives information from those who ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THEM (this does not include you) in respectful and diverse ways. They don't have to be told they would commit murder (AN OPINION NOT A FACT OF OUR SOCIETY) to receive the opposite point of view. Its pretty much common knowledge that "murder" is a label placed upon abortion by those in like belief with yourself. Therefore we don't need you commenting on stories without respecting the members beliefs or political stances that you are speaking towards. Again, if someone wanted to read an opinion stated like yours its not hard to find. People are not as ignorant and helpless like you keep trying to portray them as. Please refrain from belittling others who are not yourself with such talk. The women here are also not mislead like you keep trying to insinuate. You are not sharing both sides of the argument because you don't care about the other side as long as you say whatever makes you feel good about yourself. You are not here for the women so stop acting as if you are. Your only obvious motivation is to please yourself. <br />
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Actually most do not regret their abortion choice, only some, who are almost always those who were never sure of it from the beginning or those who did not choose it themselves. Also, if you are going to make generalized statements as facts it is wise to make sure you have an appropriate argument to begin with prior to stating them. <br />
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Again that opinion of whether or not a pregnancy is a product of conception or a life is up to subjectivity and you ARE disrespecting others when you speak in such a way. Take a cue from elegy, she allows her opinion to inspire her support but she doesn't let it overtake and disrespect other people. However, there is a difference between the two of you that you'll never be able to change, she knows what its like to have to choose so it is much easier for her to be unbiased because she knows what it feels like. I understand your hardship with this, but it doesn't give you the right to blatantly call everyone who doesn't believe what you believe liars by telling everyone you speak to that you are the only one who speaks truth. <br />
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Tell me how telling someone that they have the right to make this choice for themselves (fact) is wrong? Tell me how it isn't being open to whatever view they may have on life and religion? Tell me how it is doing anything but good? I feel confident you won't have a chance at convincingly proving your statements regarding this specific argument, but good luck trying, I'm sure it will be as amusing as other recent statements. <br />
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Again, This is a choice. Just because you don't agree with it for whatever reason does not make it suddenly not a choice for the rest of the world. The world does not revolve around your personal interpretations of your beliefs and its highly self-righteous to act as if it does. <br />
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Actually this all started with your disrespecting our members by telling them what you THINK IS RIGHT OR WRONG (AN OPINION) AS A FACT when it clearly is NOT a fact and is clearly built upon faulty evidence and poorly preconceived notions. Respect other people's beliefs that are not your own by not acting as if you are the only who knows some kind of truth. You don't know anything about what it takes to make such a decision, therefore, not only do you have zero interest in this experience group other than personal interest in making yourself feel accomplished for picketing like a protester at a clinic does, you do not practice sensitivity here. Therefore, your comments are unwelcome because again we don't come here to hear your picket sign propaganda based on personal opinion. <br />
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This is why I do not stand for your commenting here. I refuse to sit by and allow you to continue to do it without standing against it. How about you re-read this story rather than blabbering on and on about how you are so much more correct than everyone else here when it comes to what is right and wrong in the world. I must ask, are you Jesus? Because I am pretty sure only someone who is as perfect as Jesus which would me only Jesus himself could act in such a way and not be completely inappropriate. <br />
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Again, you show no respect for other opinions other than your own, so your attempt to say you are respectful of other's opinions and beliefs is contradicted by your actions here time and time again. <br />
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You state you don't have to research and state your sources when claiming you know truth.<br />
You state that you don't have to form any kind of valid argument to prove a point effectively.<br />
You state that you need nothing but your opinion to prove something even if it contradicts what you said one to ten days prior and etc. <br />
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How do you even think that you are going to be considered credible when you makes such kinds of statements? <br />
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There is no common truth being spoken by you, only personal opinion that you like to call truth. It is disrespectful of you to do so and you have no valid argument that proves otherwise.

Thank you for your very respectful approach to commenting to my story. It is more than appreciated elegy. I do speak strongly against opinion being used in support for we cannot tell someone what is right or wrong for themselves especially when it comes to abortion but I see your point of view and can understand it even. I thank you for being supportive and open to other people and their views. We don't all believe in the same things or the same religion. Most of us worship differently, but that doesn't mean we should use it to judge one another and their actions as right or wrong, moral or immoral. That is not our responsibility nor should we try to make it such.<br />
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Thank you for trying to be so unbiased by not being judgmental of the women here. You most certainly belong and don't ever worry about intrusion! You could never intrude on something unless you are disrespecting someone else in the process and you obviously do your very best not to do just that. Thanks again for the comment! :) Take care!! <br />
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PS: I am very happy for you and your child! I am so glad you were able to exercise your right to choose for yourself!! You deserve that and you deserve all the happiness this world can bring you! <br />
hae

I think you misunderstood me. I never said you didn't belong here, I said, how about the males that comment here, like the one that announced that he has a penis? I doubt that he ever had an abortion. <br />
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Women who are contimplating abortion have a rihgt to hear both sides, not just "do it if it's right for you." Most women regret it, and once it's done, that's it. They also should know that what is inside their womb is not merely "products of conception." I never name called or told anyone that they were evil because they had an abortion. I have a right to state my beliefs, you rant about "choice" as if it's the only correct way to view this.<br />
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I'm sorry if you don't like my comments but I don't see anything that I have said as disrespectful. This all started with you.

And the contradictions roll on... I had an abortion! What makes you think I don't belong?..My statements pertain directly to those who have had or have considered abortion. Which includes myself. I am connected with this group for as long as I live because of my experience. (note: that is why they call it an experience group).<br />
What a statement from someone who is outspokenly against abortion. YOU do not belong in this group. <br />
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Also, all you have is assumption, you want something to do with your life... Well I'm sorry, My world does not revolve around you I have a perfectly well thought out argument and just because I have something better to do with my time does NOT mean I can't argue it. That is a very pretentious notion. Especially giving the contradictions you had within that last post on its own!<br />
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Edit: I'm not trying to sling mud here, I am simply stating that I'm tired of this nonsense from you. You were and continue to be disrespectful and you do so because you can get away with it by a technicality of an open forum. However, just because one can do something, does not mean it is appropriate. You can say whatever you want to say elsewhere on EP in the appropriate spaces and be fine but here is different as you admit, this group pertains to those who HAVE HAD AN ABORTION OR ARE CONSIDERING abortion. Which makes all of your comments here on everyone's stories look pretty darn contradicting giving your recent acknowledgment of what this group is created to do. You have nothing to do with having or considering an abortion and you don't respect all of those who do. <br />
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PS: It is not that I merely dislike or disagree with your comments, its much more than that. So yes, of course I don't want to read disrespectful comments to my friends and myself. I will not stand for it. It is those like you who make such comments here that make some of our members leave this group because they find it not the environment they were seeking. Now think about what that accomplishes? Nothing good thats for sure (meaning you do no good when you disrespect most of our members by acting as if your beliefs are the only right ones). Lastly, If you are going to try to argue with me about my having no business being in this group and speaking and talking to others who have experienced what I have experienced then at least keep from contradicting yourself and actually make a valid argument against my being here!

Like I said before...way to wave the white flag. Please do not try to act like you are above and beyond. The reality is, you have no response to that other post or you would have written it, I'm sure you would have just to prove me wrong, but you can't. You have no anwser so you resorted to this. This also has nothing to do with my ego, it has to do with me voicing what I feel needs to be voiced. I really wish you would stop painting me as some heartless person who is just after your precious support system. I never demonized anyone, I was never disrespectful, I just didn't write what you wanted to read. If you were so concerned about the "invading" of the group by those who have never had an abortion, then why are guys commenting here? Ones who have nothing pertaining to abortion going on in their lives? Like I have said, putting yourself out there saying that you are a christian and are for abortion, you are going to meet resistance. I am not here for a popularity contest. I wrote what I felt needed to be seen by people, and I'm glad that I did. You seem to be the one obsessed, dedicating a whole story to this.

Thank you so much whosethatgirl!! I am so sorry people have been rude to you! You are a very strong person to take it all in stride! Though I feel you shouldn't have to deal with it at all. This is our place and people like CL003 for example are too caught up in their own ego feeding that they don't care about who they are disrespecting by acting like their opinion is more important than our supportive environment.<br />
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oh forgive me cl003, you must be referencing my lack of reply to your "argument".. sadly i haven't had the time nor the motivation to respond to that published contradiction you call an argument. The next time you comment on one of my own stories, please refrain from sarcastic remarks. I expect respect on everyone else's stories in this forum so why wouldn't I on my own. If you wanted to know why I hadn't responded, you could have simply asked why, not come to my own story and try and fail horribly to insult me with some sort of implied smugness as if I was conceding with silence (which is quite funny). Please, tell me you have something better to do, though its seeming you really don't giving your statement here. It is more than obvious I have had more important things to do or speak about than to constantly point out your contradictions one after the other. Please forgive me but I must inform you that I don't come to EP waiting for your next reply, I come here to enjoy myself and find support with those who actually understand my circumstance and if I get around to it I will, if I don't... oh well, I'm not super worried about making the pointing out all of the contradictions you make each time you post an EP priority of mine.. <br />
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On a slightly general note:<br />
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I just wish people would think before they assume they have the right to disrespect other people's beliefs and own personal opinions and circumstance by forcing one's own opinions on those people just because they can. There is a difference in speaking up about something and acting like a self righteous ego-maniac...<br />
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The worst thing of all is when the obsessed ego-maniac tendency is paired with a constantly made up argument that has little to no connection to where it started. As in for example; one constantly contradicting their own argument with a brand new "point" that makes no sense when put with supportive statements of the bigger/primary argument spoken previously. If one is going to argue something and try to force that argument on someone else, they should probably formulate it PRIOR to actually trying to argue it.

Very well said Hae! Your are a great person! I had a few rude people to comment my story but I just overlooked it because they aren't me and they nothing about my choice. =) But very good thoughts =)

Way to wave the white flag hae......

Yes! It shows when you don't "submit" too soon! I have learned I should wait longer sometimes. EP will log me out if I take too long so I make sure to cut and paste into a Word doc so I don't lose the whole thing!<br />
I didn't officially join this experience group because it is not something I choose to define myself with. But it is something I'm concerned about, especially because of the people who would come in protest like the picketters in front of the clinic. While religious views and laws are one thing, these are people who would just as soon take our legal rights away. It crosses church and state and blurs that line. It forces "Christianity" on everyone like the Inquisition. I put it in quotes because i am a Christian, but certainly welcome people to live here who are not. <br />
Anyway. EP makes me stay up waaay too late, and I'm hitting submit now so I can go to bed.<br />
Nice to meet you Hae. :)

aww :) we all have those moments! I can lose myself if I find myself not holding back at times! I now answer things much more slowly and let things sit before I hit submit. Not only does it make the argument stronger because you can fix things, but you really have time to think on what you are saying.

You're welcome, hae. You always approach these situations so rationally! I wish I could be that way but I sometimes let my emotions get the best of me. :)

thanks dre as always you humble me... :) thanks so much for the support!

wow hae, this was good, powerful stuff.

you are the best friend a girl could have.. honestly!! thank you for being so compassionate!!! :) We all should have a friend like you!

I believe in pro-choice... my best friend made that hard decision and althought I'd been faced with that decision before and I choose not to do it, I stood by my friend because everyone's sisuation is different.. every person is different, and I wasnt her and I deffently couldn't judge because I loved her and because in the end she is the only one that can make that decision and when she asked me "What do I do" I looked at her and told her exactly this: It' doesn't matter what I think, or what your mom thinks.. it doesn't matter what the world says.. only you can make that desicion and wheather you decide to or not I'm with you all the way... and it's been two years and she still struggles with her choose but I never judged her and never will,

no problem!! :)

thank you!!! :)

i also support the [dream] right to be free of [all] attacks on EP. Recommended! [:)]

Thank you so very much Eliza!!! :) I finally was able to check this because EP would load it after trying for hours! haha <br />
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I am quite tired of it myself, I try to be respectful of everyone but when I am saying I'm mustering all the respect I can have, it means even I am scraping the bottom of the barrel when I see such actions being committed in our safe place. It really angers me but if we are to win we gotta keep our heads! :) We gotta keep our rational because it is more than obvious that many are lacking greatly in that respect when they come here and try to tear our people down! <br />
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Thank you so much for being such a great support!! :) I don't know how to really express how much I truly appreciate it! <br />
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I really want to achieve the support group we deserve here! We shouldn't have to be exploited for money to go to some "retreat" where our choice is looked at as something we should regret to find a safe place to talk about our choice... we should be able to meet here, and speak freely without fear of harsh words or criticisms of our choices. If only those who were commenting ignorantly here to date would just realize this and stop being so disrespectful to our members and their rights!

<b>*STANDS UP & CLAPS!*</b><br />
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Well said, hae. I am sick of people coming into our group for the sole reason to harass people. For many of us, this is the ONLY support that we have. In our society it isn't "normal" to grieve over the choice to terminate a pregnancy. We are judged for our choices by others who have never had to grapple with whether or not have an abortion. We have been slandered by those that never will be faced with that choice. So, many of us turn our grief inwards afraid of the backlash of society. <br />
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And now... the <i>one</i> place where we can share our stories is being taken hostage! The one place where we can talk to other women who have had the same experience & share the same feelings is under attack.<br />
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Sadly hae, I suppose I am not as big of a person as you are because I cannot muster up an ounce of respect for the people who come to this group to insult, degrade and tear down our members. It is hurtful to members of this group, some of whom are already in a fragile place emotionally. I know there are groups on EP that would welcome their comments, but this is not one of them. I fail to understand what they think they will accomplish by coming to this group to terrorize members. It is disgusting. But more than being disgusting, it is pitiful. I actually <b>pity</b> those who need to tear others down in order to make themselves feel better. It really must be a sad, sad existence.