U.S. Guys

Since the time I came to U.S. I've been shocked numerously about different matters, including guys' manners. Men here don't seem to get the notion of opening doors for women or letting them walk first or opening doors in the cars to let women get in or paying for them or offering a seat when a woman stands in front of them or helping them out with anything else. I've been here for 5 years already and still, every time I see a slob like that, I just can't understand. It infuriates me and I wish to drop a heavy brick on their heads. I know about emancipation, yes, yes, whatever. So guys use it as an excuse for them not to worry about any manners at all. Easy slip, great!
misasja misasja
26-30, F
18 Responses Jul 30, 2007

<p>What is even worse is when you do open a door for a woman and they look at you like you're Jack the Ripper. Most of the problem lies with women's double standard. Women simply have no manners; expect to take your job, your place in the college admissions que, take your home, take your children. Male bashing is just good fun and any guy that complains is just a bad sport or worse. Slip the shoe on the other foot and a guy could lose his job or worse. Interaction with modern woman is fraught with danger. Getting pretty close to just not worth it.</p>

Just treat others as you wish to be treated..it's pretty simple...

misasja I'm right with you. I was taught that chivalry WAS part of manners! In fashion or out of fashion IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD THING! Boys who haven't learned that are exactly that, BOYS. To me a man isn't someone who doesn't know how to respect and treat a women. So just as BOYS have no manners, boys also have NO chivalry. Men, yeah they do. Now BOYS wont get that. I just hope that they learn it soon and start being that becuase the sooner we have that the more we will have in the up coming generations and HECK! Guys! That's one less thing to hear a girl complain about! loll<br />
Anyway I so get where you're coming from Misasja and I agree 100%

I went to a school where the motto was "manners maketh man" and I was always taught that you cannot expect people to be polite to you if you are not polite to them. I saw a guy in McDonalds today who realising his fries weren't in the bag just threw the bag back on the counter and glared at the cashier which (a) takes more effort than saying "excuse I don't appear to have my fries" and (b) makes the cashier's day rather less pleasant and runs the risk of the cashier responding in a similarly aggressive manner.<br />
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I have spent 10 years as a lawyer and have come across many driven career women who think that a man offering to walk them to the station is patronising,etc. but doesn't mean I've abandoned my manners but I just think about who I'm dealing with and tailor what I do to the situation. If I think I'll be glared at for opening the door I'll let her open but if I'm with someone who I think will appreciate the door being opened I'll open it. It's just common sense really!<br />
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Funniest related incident I've seen here in London was when a guy offered a lady his seat on the underground only for her to glare at him and bark "I'm not pregnant". Poor guy was left sitting there pondering the fact he'd just effectively told her she was so fat she looked pregnant!

If manners make a man, what, pray tell, makes a woman?

They can't leap over the counter and attack customers but they can certainly be less helpful than they might otherwise be knowing that management will generally back up an employee who is abused by a customer.

Agree on everything 200% with lisalynne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to say there is no excuse for not being polite and blaming it on fear of sexual harassment is too convenient. There is a huge difference between manners which are also taught here and the 'think only of thyself' attitude that is spreading faster than McDonald's. I don't actually believe that the majority of men who don't open a door, don't do it because of some fear of sexual harrassment. I think the majority are being 'dudes', 'cool' or 'macho'. And that is pretty sad.<br />
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Bottom line: In America a woman is lucky if she finds a polite man. They exist, but they are NOT the majority and yes all the women I know appreciate kindness and polite actions, helpful actions etc. I married a European...one of many reasons was the way he treats me. He treats me very well. And yes he also happens to hold doors open and even offers to carry shopping bags! He is kind. When he sees me carrying heavy items, he helps. It is not harassment, it is kindness.<br />
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At the same time my brother is also very kind in this way and he is American. He is just in the minority here. He even notices how many men are not helpful to women.

I could say exactly the same thing about women, i.e., lucky to find a polite woman. American women aren't held in very high esteem by American men any more.

Sadly even us old school guys are now forced to closely examine a gal before opening a door, offering a courtesy for signs of overt MPD "Modern Personality Disorder" Wherein you get, glared at, sneered at, shyed away from as if you have leprosy etc when opening doors, etc. However the gunuine smiles from those of you who still apreciate "commmon courtesy" make it all worth it. I guess I'm pretty provential, I still say, Hi! and smile at strangers. Now that will get ya some looks here. hyahahahaha

Msterling, I've heard that before - women giving you a dirty look when you're being nice. There are plenty of those. But, there are much, much more of those who would appreciate your behavior and that's who's worth all the work. So don't be discouraged and stop being a gentleman just because some stupid-a$$ female nazis are brain dead (no offense to whoever considers themselves a female-nazi, haha).

Entitled much?

I'm with you all the way, it's just how I was raised. And by the way, I would go especially out of my way for you, such a cutie!

I am a lucky one my boyfriend opens doors for me lets me walk in 1st unless of course we're not getting along at the moment and we go somewhere I'll open my own door then.

I REALLY hate the lack of chivalry that American men have. They view it as a chore. They will also blame it on the women, saying that a few women have rebuffed their attempts to open doors. Girls if you are doing that, STOP!!!

Yes, women asked for it and now they got it. But first, not ALL women asked for it and second it's sooooo convenient for men to slacker now! And they DO! Of course rigidity is never good and women somehow happen to open the door first sometimes. But, I remember the story that touched me and it wouldn't touch me AT ALL be it in Russia or be I in Russia, but I'm here in U.S. and to get good manners from men is a luxury. Anyway, some months ago I was interning at some drug detox facility. We were preparing for a group session and started to unload the chairs from the stack to put them around the table. I took the first chair from the top and there was Russian patient I was previously talking to, the first second he saw me taking that chair, which was no big deal, he immediately jumped up, like burnt by fire, and took that chair from my hands to help me. I saw care in his eyes and his conviction that women shouldn't lift stuff, any stuff. I was so petrified at that moment and felt so special! I was used to it in Estonia or Russia, where men are raised like this, but after many years here I've lost any faith in them. I understand all this cultural thing, blah blah, but it doesn't make men look any less like slobs and bricks. The simple thing is that even those women who want equal rights with men, will still LIKE IT when you're being a gentleman, it's as simple as that. They may tell you that men shouldn't open the doors or that it's no big deal and maybe it isn't for them, but when men actually DO all that stuff, there's no woman who won't like it. So if men really want to do something nice for women or at least for a woman they care about, learn some manners, even if the woman is deeply "emancipated." But for those who are lazy arses, keep sitting on your arse and hope to be appreciated for other great qualities of yours!

Damn, this debate is getting complicated. So I'll just make my point short: Generally (with individual abberrations of course!) the degree of manner one exhibits depend a lot on the culture and environment one lives in. I do not doubt Misasja's claim about Americans (on a general basis). Here in Sweden, people are not very courteous; but they are not as rude as some people in i.e. New York. People here tend to be shy and quiet and display only discrete politeness. In other countries where politeness and respect is indoctrinated in kids at young ages the level of politeness and "good-manner" tend to be higher. Well, sorry if my comment above was a bit incoherent, but I'm currently suffering from jetlag, head-ache and mild sickness...

Now, after Neo's entry, I feel like an idiot. Well, not a total idiot, but I do need to apologize for my being so blunt and offensive to someone. By no means I meant the whole population, there's no such things as ALL anyway. Just like Neo said - I was talking about the trend. But, of course, there are definitely sensitive people like Neo who still have manners left, fortunately. I guess I was just really really disappointed due to my culture shock. I'm from a different country where things are different, therefore it shocks me to see some things performed otherwise. Additionally, I do think that women here in U.S. play a huge role in the decline of manners in men. They're all about emancipation and all that bullcr*ap, trying to be all equal with men, instead of treasuring whatever is unique in themselves. They scare men away with their attitude and getting all offended when men try to be sensitive. I guess, overall, I feel bitter that men do less and less creative and truly daring things for women they care about.

Following my own advice in the last comment, I feel that all of us that call you "friend" (or at least fellow Project member) need to do what we can to undo that "crappy" day you're having, for whatever reason.<br />
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First, I'd like to hear how many other people would smile and give misasja a seat if she looked upset.<br />
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Second, let us know, misasja: What do you need to hear from us to help you to sit down, relax, and enjoy the ride that we call life? Regardless of who is giving you a hard time, what can WE do for you?

Let's look at this another way...<br />
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What misasja is talking about is part of a larger trend in the United States. In general, Americans (guys and girls) think more and more of themselves. Professionals brag how they spend money on themselves and add, "...but I'm worth it." Politeness used to be seen as a requirement, but now that everyone has a feeling of entitlement, no one sees politeness as "necessary." What's worse, thanks to reality programs and soap operas, people now feel entitled to REVENGE!<br />
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Everyone should look around, recognizing that all those people have feelings that are just as valid as their own, and do what "feels right."<br />
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While American women have trained me not to open doors for them anymore, I often do chivalrous things to both men and women. I never let a door close on the person behind me. When on a bus, unless I absolutely need to sit down to read that day, I will offer my seat to the first worthy soul. Besides elderly or handicapped persons, such souls might include someone with a large backpack, someone struggling to read standing, or just someone that looks exhausted or frazzled. If a woman looks self-assured and seems to be having a great day, offering my seat might be quietly viewed by many women as innocent bigotry. If, however, I saw misasja looking mildly irritated (perhaps with no evidence as to why), I would try to make her day by offering her my seat.<br />
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I don't follow any set of rules other than the universal rule of being sensitive to everyone's needs. Why not take a day or two exploring how you might do this as well? It's very rewarding!<br />
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By the way, I'm not preaching to anyone. At one point I used to rush on the bus and take the first seat, giving it up to only elderly or handicapped riders. Then I discovered a better way...<br />
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Enjoy life!<br />
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NeoAwakens

Dude, if that's chivalry for you, then yeah... Read some classic books, especially French ones, there you have real chivalry, but beware, you may get nauseous, it's just improbable for guys here! Opening doors for ladies or offering them seats is NOT sexual harassment, so please don't give me this lame excuse. But of course "chivalry is dead", it's so convenient, so lazy arses of guys don't need to do ****** anymore. Too bad women actually take it, although it's their choice.<br />
Chivalry is dead in U.S., slobs. Go to Europe, especially to Eastern Europe, there you have "chivalry" that you call it, although that's just an elementary stuff that any 7-year-old must know! Well, if properly raised, although, why in world am I talking about proper upbringing here in U.S. anyway?

Those things don't sound like manners to me. :) They sound like old-fashioned chivalry.,. which is just that, out of fashion! Plus, nobody wants a sexual harassment law suit...