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It Is A Moral Imperative That Every Human Being Has Inalienable Rights.........

..........and that these rights are protected by everyone else. In the defense of that person who is having their Rights infringed lies the freedom and dignity of everyone else. I sincerely wish people would get this in their heads!
:)
koyptakh koyptakh 51-55, M 30 Responses Feb 5, 2011

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Hi lickitysplit

I am sure we do share much common ground. I think it is the purpose of debate and dispute to discover that common ground and to discuss where we differ. That way we learn and grow. That is what interests me anyway!

I watched a TV program on Haiti recently and their prisons were hell-like. What was surprising was what one commentator said which was only the innocent are in them on remand at least. The reasoning was that gang members would have access to money and so would bail themselves out. That seemed to be doubly tragic that the guilty go free while the innocent languish for years in hell. I certainly have sympathy for them!

Regarding the Justice system in the US - where wealth buys you out one way or another - I understand what you are saying. Corruption is a terrible thing. It is a basic human right to have access to Justice. Of course Human Rights are hard to achieve. People constantly seek to distort and manipulate them. That does not mean we should not struggle for them though.

The War on drugs is crazy isn't it! Prohibition created Organized Crime in The US and Drugs have created it across The World. That is a far greater crime. IMHO recreational drugs should be available to adults but taxed and medically managed. Education would be the way to get people to see better off without drugs. Personally I am uninterested in drugs and think the best drug is produced by own bodies: endorphins.

Prison must rehabilitate. Punishment just leads to more anger which in an open society is taken out on the vulnerable. I guess sympathy is not required just understanding of the cycles that lead to repeat offending.

Best wishes

:)

Dear koyptakh -- Perhaps we fight the same war but different battles. I oppose the current criminal justice system in the US because I do not believe it is either fair or just. Our "Adversarial" system is supposedly designed to achieve justice by having two opposite and opposing positions, the defense whose responsibility it is to seek acquittal of the the accused and to do so at all (legal) cost, and the prosecution whose responsibility it is to seek conviction of the accused and to do so at all (legal) cost. Unfortunately, both wealth and politics intervene. Extremely wealthy defendants often achieve acquittal in spite of the facts of the case while poor defendants are too often convicted when innocent. In our system, no one is charged or held accountable for seeing justice is done. The judges role is to ensure that the rules of law are followed, without regard to truth or justice.



Furthermore, our Government has chosen to spend tens of billions of dollars in a war on drugs to keep people from poisoning themselves. This war on drugs puts tens of thousands of people convicted of drug crimes into our jails and prisons with violent and aggressive convicted felons who then spread their aggression and disdain for social order. Hundreds if not thousands of jail officers and prison officials are attacked every year, but no effective response is available other than isolating those who commit violence while in prison to solitary cells where they can be controlled. Again, I have no sympathy for them. I reserve my sympathy for those who are wrongly convicted and those who are imprisoned for non-violent crimes. Prison should be reserved only for those who commit violence against other humans and against human society.

Hi lickitysplit

I understand Private Manning is not convicted of anything. My point is Solitary Confinement is a form of torture. Imagine it happening to yourself. I think it would be truly awful. In the UK which is a similar society to the US there are 40 prisoners in Solitary Confinement. I guess it is appropriate in some circumstances but in the US there are 75,000.

It is my view it the difficult areas of life which test our resolve to respect human life. The thing is we do it for us not them. We should not allow them to make us less human.

Oh I agree that the US is a beacon of liberty in an oppressed World but that is why it is all the more important you respect Human Rights always.

Best wishes

:)

Dear koyptakh -- I believe that you weaken your arguments in favor of basic human rights by defending people like Private Manning and convicted criminal felons. These are not political prisoners and they forfeited their rights through commission of crimes. Let me address them separately.



First, Private Manning was a voluntary member of an all volunteer US military. As every member of the military is taught and knows, you give up certain rights and privileges when you volunteer. It is especially clear to members of the military that military justice is different and separate from the civil justice system, that military prisons are strict and disciplinary in nature, and that comforts are minimal. Private Manning chose to commit an act that virtually every member of the military sees as giving aid and comfort to America's enemies. Private Manning took an oath and signed contracts with the Government that he would protect classified information and informing him of the penalties for unlawfully disclosing that information. What he did clearly meets the definition of treason, although ultimately he may not be tried on that charge but on lesser charges. He did this knowingly and therefore accepted the possible consequences of his acts.



Second, unlike Daniel Ellsberg in the disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, Private manning indiscriminately stole and unlawfully disclosed hundreds of thousands of classified military communications and Department of State "cables," the majority of which evidence no wrongdoing by our nation or illegal acts by our citizens. What he did was not an act of conscience, it was a blatant act of defiance against authority.



Private Manning waived his right to speedy trial and will receive all of the same rights and privileges afforded any similar defendant in the military justice system. I have no sympathy whatsoever for him and his treatment while not kind does not approach anyone's legitimate definition of torture or abuse. His confinement to solitary is standard practice in cases of espionage, treason, and unlawful disclosure of classified information to enemies of our nation. Having had considerable access to and knowledge of classified information, his isolation is to prevent further unlawful disclosure.



I have slightly greater sympathy for some of those incarcerated for criminal convictions -- I say this because there have been demonstrated cases of persons wrongfully convicted of crimes they did not commit. Furthermore, America's "War on Drugs" is a failed cause that results in incarceration of non-violent drug offenders in large number. However, the majority of those in maximum security prisons are recidivist violent felons who have demonstrated that they have poor impulse control, lack of empathy for others, and are unwilling to accede to control of prison officials and have committed violent acts against other inmates and guards while imprisoned. Are there some who may be wrongfully sent to solitary confinement? Probably. High security prisons are violent, uncomfortable places. A good friend of mine was stabbed to death in a medium security state prison by an inmate who by his own admission committed a random act of violence simply because he felt like it.



Are there abuses in the US? Certainly. In a nation of more than 300 million citizens, no laws, rules, processes, or procedures can prevent all such abuses by every employee of local, state, or Federal Government. But our Government does have laws, rules, processes, and procedures in place to minimize such acts and to punish those who unlawfully mistreat prisoners. Our system is by no means perfect, but its as good as humanity gets.

Hi lickitysplit

I do not think you should be so sure!

"Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has been detained in solitary confinement for the last seven months, despite not having been convicted of any crime, having been a model detainee, and having evidenced no signs of violence or even disciplinary misdemeanors. Manning has been kept alone in a cell for 23 hours a day, barred from exercising in that cell, deprived of sleep, and denied even a pillow or sheets for his bed. As Greenwald reports, “the brig’s medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.” A court hearing has not been set.

The message of the U.S. government to its citizens in this activity is clear: blow the whistle and your brain will be mutilated before you even have a trial."

In US prisons at any one time 75,000 people are held in long term solitary confinement. Imagine it. For yourself I mean. Just saying the US tortures it's citizens too if you like.

Just saying.

Best wishes

:)

koyptakh - The United States Declaration of Independence is one of the clearest statements of mankind's most basic rights: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.



Unfortunately, in order for humans to enjoy these basic rights all of humanity must equally recognize and honor them and this is not the case.



In America's case, we declared our independence from the British monarchy and created our Government through the United States Constitution to ensure those basic rights. Our founders then realized that without a separate Bill of Rights that limited the power of our Government and protected our rights against interference of our Government, would would not enjoy our rights for long, thus resulting in the First through the Tenth Amendment to our Constitution.



Throughout history, other sovereign states have existed through the power of armed might and without the consent of the governed, such as Syria, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and many others. Meanwhile others have suffered from anarchy in which the strongest and most well armed mob rules, such as Somalia today.



Attempts to more broadly protect human rights through "world government" have been a failure, as is the United Nations today, where the UN Human Rights Commission has often been led by some of the most despotic, anti-human rights nations in the world.



I do not know the answer. Some have suggested that the answers lies in a benign dictatorship, but for how long can anyone ensure the dictatorship remains benign and through what means. Experiments in democracy and representative democracy have had some success, but also some failures as evidenced by Americas own history of slavery.



It is my opinion that of all the experiments of modern history, with all of its flaws, the United States has been one of the most successful in ensuring basic human rights. Certainly Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Britain also have been reasonably successful as have Germany and some of the other European nations to one extent or another.



I must disagree with Jackfrost14. Certainly China is not a nation in which the people enjoy those most basic rights. However, human rights in the Utopian communist nation of the People Republic of China have largely improved as capitalism has spread. That is, our consumption of products manufactured in China, while supporting an anti-human rights government, has resulted in increased enjoyment of those rights in China.



Do I wish and pray that every nation of mankind recognized and ensured those most basic human rights? Absolutely. However, I am unable and unwilling to go to war in every corner of the globe to unsure that result and I fear that should I attempt to do so, I would fail -- we would fail.



In the end, the best that I can do is to do my part in ensuring human rights in my home, city, state, and nation.

Hi dubkebab

A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything. Malcolm X



Wow! Look at Libya today!



You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.

Malcolm X, Malcolm X Speaks, 1965



Best wishes

:)

"human rights involve the right to be a human being" -Malcom X



the struggle goes on,sometimes subtly,and often right in front of our faces.

Hi chipperchick

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller



First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.



Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.



Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.



Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.





Sad but true.

:)

Koyptakh,



You put it down so simply., and yet the intrigue it has roused up, does deserve it's own platform..the inequalities of life, around the world, perhaps?



Social Injustice, ..gee, the kids went and saw Hair, on stage this week, that's a line from that 60's hippie stuff we all fed into, how 'bout that? umm



You basics, are as you know, the same as mine..Do good, and get good..And, we must all definitely learn that , ...respect..for each other, and all...should be nurtured from a very young age..



Again, as I reread your sharing, the simplicity of it, actually astounds me..If we do not look out for others basic human rights, and share, we will not survive.



chipperchickThanksYourforSharing!;)







x

Hi Melodie13

Human Rights are as you say just an idea or an ideal in the minds of people.

A good idea though and always the sequence of cause and effect is first the thought and then the action. I suppose this does not apply to a knee jerk reaction but then that is when Human Rights are really needed IMHO.

Best wishes

:)

Hi Giggelets

ok. I was not hurt just concerned.

Sure I am shocked when Human RIghts is used in a pejorative manner. How do people somehow separate themselves from being Human in their own minds?

best wishes

:)

Hi Impulsive

I know what you mean. I saw a program on tv about US Prisons and there were so many people in Solitary confinement I was amazed. It does no good. Nobody has the right to make a person live for years in a cell - it is an exercise in pure power.

Human Rights is a hard subject.

:)

human rights is just a fantasy portrayed to the masses, They only exist in the minds of people, not in the reality of the world. We are just as ignorant as our predecessors. We really haven't evolved that far from the stone age. We still kill each other for land and material things, place ourselves before others, including family. Maybe it is time to for God to give the world a much needed enema, but we would fight over where the syringe is to be stuck.

OMG! koyptakh, I certainly wasn't screaming at you. OMG I am so sorry if I implied any connection between my comments and you. I am so thrilled that you share my passion for human rights,



I just grow tried of the republicans and ultra conservatives always placing the blame of the conditions that the poor live in on the poor instead of themselves and their eagerness to take, and take even more away from the poor.



Again, please! Please forgive me if my comments hurt you you. I really didn't meant to do that.

Hi Giggelets

Sorry you feel like screaming - not at my question I hope!

I am not sure that all humans are not responsible. I mean that is the other of the side of the coin with Human Rights on one side - right?

I do not know much about The Taliban but I recall people with Mental Handicaps being used in one bombing. I suspect most other suicide bombers are vulnerable people too. Shame on their controllers.

Even so I am sure you are right that people in positions of power are most responsible for everything. With great power comes great responsibility.

I am not sure about Bill Gates. He seems to be making a good show of giving Microsoft Billions away.

Bestw ishes

:)

As I just about scream, it's not the humans at the bottom end of the food chain that cause all the pain and suffering in the world, it the powerful few, almost always acticting quietly in the name of some agenda established by the wealty to further their own wealth.



Islamic extreamists are not killing in the name of God! They are killing to attain personal and exclusive wealth, power, and domination over others. Witness the private lives of the Taliban, behind their closed and locked gates!!! "God", like the old, "we must protect the children" is only their rallying cry praying on the hearts and souls of the ignorance of people desparate to believe there is a better life for them.



Ever notice how selectively Bill Gates donates his money and to whom and where? Dig a little deeper and motives begin to surface that will come back to his many off shore bank accounts. (My opinion).

Human rights are a good thing, and i for one am all for them..but the more i live, the more i see how governments works, our so called human rights are just prvilliages, they can easily be taken away and yet what is more worrying is how people rarely relalise this and do something about it.

Hi Giggelets

you make sense. I guess Human Rights is a concept which can be turned to the advantage of different people and groups as you say. Still the model in the West was closing sweatshops through Factory Acts and the like. There seems an ever swelling mega slum growing around The World and I am not sure legislation touches them. The problem with not sorting out problems is they grow I guess.

:)

If we succeed in shutting down all the "sweatshops" in the world, what happens those people? Are we willing or even able to care for and feed them, more importantly, would we care for and feed them? Strong evidence says we would not!



For God's sake! Don't take away the few crumbs these poor people live on with no realistic plan in place to care for them since it's obvious their own governments won't, and certainly the American conservatives, Tea Partiers, Republicans, and the Religious right has no intentions of caring for these people! Heck! They deeply resent even helping our poor and needy!



THE SWEATSHOP HYPOCRISY



In a sense I have spent my entire life working for "human right" as a social worker fighting every day just to get food, rent, and heat assistance to the poor in the area I served, so I have a tiny piece of knowledge on this topic and I contribute more than my fair share toward organizations fighting for human rights.



That being said, my one passionate gripe is the using of emotions to profit very large and powerful corporations, for example..."the children must be protected!" or "We must shut down the sweatshops!”



Great! But cut away the bull crap and the cry has absolutely nothing to do with protecting children or anyone, but business agendas and employment issues. Notice that while everybody shouts out, "Close the sweatshops!" nobody is willing to then feed and care for those "employees" of the sweatshops thrown out of work, with no fairer/better jobs for them.



The real cry is that these sweatshops are hurting the bottom line of some huge American corporation. Nobody really cares about the consequences of closing the sweatshops that befalls those eking out a living! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CORPORATE BOTTOM LINE, cloaked by exacting human emotions via pictures and horror stories, conveniently forgetting the suffering left for those these profiteers are leaving behind.



Certainly close the sweatshops, but first! For God's sake, don't do as is the case, close the shops and to heck with those thrown out of work, work so desperately needed to feed families that these huge corporations and the world's religious community turns its backsides to, and don't tell me that those saintly "Christians" are out there feeding the poor! North of Cincinnati a huge Christian church just spent more than $700,000.00 dollars to build a monster statue of their Jesus!



Stop using a human tragedy to make even more money!

HI humpty20

There is no human right to hurt or rob others. Anyone who does so may expect to loose some of their own rights as a punishment. I am not sure prison works very well as a way of making people better people but that is another story.

I think taking responsibilities away from people diminishes them and that is not what you want. Better for people to be bigger and more responsible. Still crime is horrible of course.

Best wishes

:)

Hi Jackfrost14

Well I agree with much of what you said and am not arguing with you! Still I think we all live Personal Lives in which we can do our best. The economic and political environment is too big. I heard Apple employees in California call the factories in China: Mordor. Maybe that has changed some? Still events in Egypt could be the start of something new.

Best wishes

:)

humpty---Do you think it's right that someone who get's convicted of a crime--Should NEVER be allowed to vote again??(I'm not just talking about when they are locked up-but forever!!

Human rights are becoming world wide as people realise they don't have to put up with things but we in west who have human rights don't worry to much unless we perpatrate a crime and then we want our human rights,but what about the person we killed or maimed we don't take into consideration,if we are caught doing something wrong then we must face the music and that includes being banged up and losing some freedom for a stretch.(And that includes freedom to vote,)

Hi jettys

Sure I agree with you - Human rights are more basic and important than Personal feelings: Right to Life for example, not being killed for being Gay. Everyone should be able to think what they like but equally not say it if it hurts or encourages hurt to others. A homophobic environment would make life harder for a Gay person. Sometimes people have to stop doing things they may believe or want to express for the benefit of others IMHO. Still not killing people is the most important Right to Protect!

Best wishes

:)

Human rights have nothing to do with disagreeing(& mabe hurting others feelings)!

That's part of human rights!

If we don't have our rights set in law--Whos going to enforce them!

Far too many people& organizeations(like religions) want thier rights& don't want others(Gays,women who want abortions,Other religions or just folks who look or think differant to have thier rights--So we have to have them in Law or somebodys rights will be denied!

I may not agree with how you want to live your life--But as long as your not hurting anyone it's your life!

Hi LittleLena

Human Rights may be trickier than I thought. If we cannot rely on direct democracy or good government then I suppose we must rely on Law?

Best wishes

:)

not always because there's some ep members who write their feelings downs and they get attacked because it's not right in other's people eyes. some ep member speak honestly and they end up in ep jail.

Hi LittleLena

Maybe so. I concede that is how it might very well be.

That is not what I mean by Human Rights though. In fact I do not think that is what anyone thinks is what human rights are - except maybe politicians and the government employees.



Governments get in the way for sure every time they try and do anything. Do you think that ep maybe offers a direct way for people to govern themselves?



Thanks.

:)

humans should have rights but it's the government who thinks which persons has human rights; and in their case; the politicians and the government employees.