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Judgment.

When and why did it suddenly become okay TO YOU to isolate, persecute, and mock a person's religion and/or way of life?

If that question doesn't apply to you, this one probably does.  How do you feel when you are isolated, persecuted, or mocked because of your religion and/or way of life?

Curiosity begs the question.  It's prompted because of the obvious hatred I've read about on this site towards Christians--I happen to be one.  I wonder if I'm the only person who feels this way.

Please feel free to attempt to isolate, persecute, or mock me here.

DopeyGirl DopeyGirl 31-35, F 112 Responses Dec 14, 2007

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I don't think that it is O.K. to critisize other person's religions/beliefs. Why can't people just accept one another for each other. You know....agree to disagree.

John 15:18, "When the world hates you, remember it hated me before it hated you." <br />
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If you think being persecuted for being a Christian is bad, try being a Moonie. Even though we *ARE* Christians, we receive most of our persecution from other Chrisitians. I'm sorry to say, but Christians can be the most bigoted, judgemental, narrow minded and legalistic people on the planet. Come on brothers and sisters, you know this is true. And a lot of that bigotry and judgement is directed at our own Christian bretheren, just because of denominational or doctrinal differences. Only the devil rejoices when he sees this.<br />
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Whatever happened to John 15:12, "I command you to love each other in the same way that I love you"? Our love for one another should make headlines, good headlines that demonstrate that we are branches of the same True Vine and that He lives in us.

One of the issues with any public forum is that anything you put out about yourself, from hair color to taste in music to religion, is open to criticism. Being mocked or insulted is not equitable to being persecuted; persecution requires the systemic discrediting of a religion, and I don't see any evidence of that in America. Quite the opposite really.<br />
Anything you make known about yourself will become a beacon of friendship to some and a target for tomatoes to others. That isn't being Christian, that's being alive. It's not even close to just Christians: how open-minded are most people toward Goths, for example? <br />
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People will disagree with you, here and elsewhere. That isn't a consequence of innate cruelty, ignorance or even malice, that's a consequence of your having expressed a view. Being judged is part of being in a social atmosphere: know what to let go and what to keep, and you're far better off than if you had simply told everyone to shut up. <br />
Criticism is good: it allows you to make conscious choices.

I don't persecute or isolate anyone because of their way of life, and I've never been persecuted or isolated by anyone (for my way of life, anyway).<br />
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I think Christians (myself being one) get so much crap aimed at them because the majority of Christians that people come in contact with are the psycho ones who have to incorporate their religion into every single aspect of their lives and then use it to tell everyone just WHY they're going to hell and why their religion is WRONG. I'm personally of the opinion that there's no way we can possibly know which religion is "right" or "wrong", because there IS no right and wrong. Usually when people find out I'm a Christian, they're very surprised, and their view of Christianity in general is boosted.<br />
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You can't take it personally. What the people are attacking is what the world shows them of the people they're attacking. Insulting them back is the perfect way to ensure that you'll be attacked personally. You have to be what you want people to see in you.

who here would condemn based on the sins of the father? <br />
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would a person of german decent gain the ire of the masses?<br />
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learn of the person before making any judgements<br />
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one must also consider the "celebrity" factor multiplied by the too many apples factor--- Christians are, to date, the largest relious group out there, it is much easier for some that call themselves christians, but aren't to gain the lime light and be stupid, with the whole of christianity left to blame...

I've noticed that the atheists are quick to respond and very defensive. I don't recall having accused anyone here of treating me this way--though I appear to have found a sure-fire way of inciting something...

people judge everyone else to make themselves feel better, people judge themselves because we're told we're not "pretty enough, normal enough, thin enough" people make livings on judging other people- comedians, political pundants, anyone in the entertainment business... <br />
people teach other people to judge others even in school... it's how you end up with popluar kids, or segregated lunchrooms and cliques<br />
judging is part of our society and we can't really get rid of it until everyone learns to love themselves (which is really really really difficult)

If you want to believe some guy 2000 years ago did some great things, go for it. If you want to believe he is the son of a God, power to you.<br />
If you want to believe the world was created 6000 years ago, by all means go ahead.<br />
But what you will not do is point fingers at athiests for being disrespectful of your religion when we have to deal with Christians being disrespectful of people and other religions as well. I will admit, a lot of athiests are self-righteous jerks with a holier-than-thou attitude, but you better admit that a lot of Christians are intolerant jerks with baseless arguments about homosexuality and the laws of science. Small samples of both pools here will reveal that the underlying pH is the same. :/<br />
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I'm going to go ahead and believe that current state of the universe is a result of the inevitability of all possible states in an timeless, infinite universe. All things that are possible will happen eventually, regardless of probability, given a universe with only 3 dimensions.

I totally agree with Wolfen. I feel personally that what you're asking is a double edged sword. I accept that there is a God,but up to a level where it is shoved down the throats of others to emphasise the level of hypocrisy that you show towards atheists. Believe all you like,but in my opinion Christians are probably the most corrupt of people and also the most exclusive,so if you want to look through rose tinted glasses and block that out,go on ahead,but everyone has a right to an opinion,and not just you.

Maybe I missed the meaning of your topic but religious differences/persecution is not new or sudden. Cultures have driven several groups in hiding or subjugation for hundreds of years; Hebrew enslavement in Egypt, The Inquisition, The Crusades, and the Bosnia and Herzegovina Genocide/War.

For one thing, anonymous sites such as this one bring out the (for lack of a better word) Evil in people. Most would not have the guts to say the hateful things to a persons face to face so they use a forum where they will never be found out to spout their vitriol. Religion is not the sole recipient of such posts, and as long as we are able to post with out having to actually identify ourselves, it will continue. <br />
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But Religion especially is prone to this type of nastiness since one cannot bear the thought of someone having a personal viewpoint this is different than ours. My sister is at best an agnostic, and probably an atheist and although she has absolutely no clue as to what a Christian really is, she does not hesitate to spout her hateful opinions about them... I am a Christian, and of course her diatribes are always aimed at someone else, but she is really talking to me.... LOL... she things that a dumb Christian wouldn't actually know when somebody is "dissing" them....<br />
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As a Christian, I basically just ignore these types of things and have always wondered why people who are not "Religious" or "anti Religious" spend so much time trying to bury God and Christ... if they don't believe in them (HIM) then why not just ignore and go on their merry way.<br />
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And of course, you have heard of TROLLS haven't you... probably plenty of them on these sites..

Thanks for that.

Wow. That was really something...

I don't isolate religions, I just don't abide by them. I accept and get along with many religious people as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat. (*ahemmisionariesahem*) If someone wants to start me on my hobby horse of why not, they should be prepared for an intense point-counter-point match. However, that's not saying all religions are bad, but I look at them from afar with the stance that *SOME principles* of behavior are good for those who experience it, but I never had need to learn them through religion.<br />
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My stance isn't hostile, but defensive. If that appears to isolate you because I know more about Christianity than Mormon faith, I'm sorry. I debate using what I know rather than rumors. <br />
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Just my $0.02. I'm sorry if more aggressive people are banging your door down. You can rest assured I won't, cause I hate it when one of any religion tries to do that to me.

I got an e-mail from Experience Project saying there was a comment for me on this subject, "Judgment". If so, I could not find it. Naturally, I deplore any and all judgmentalism. Judgment is just fear of the unknown. When someone gets to know the other, judgment will go away. We are all the same, yet different. It's cool, if you ask me. Thanks, Callalilly

Whoa, Darlin! I don't know who got to you, but they got you mad. I believe a way but will not go into now. However, I was a Christian most of my life. Some things happened to me that soured me on Christianity. However, I would never laugh, jest, or be mean to you in any way for your beliefs. I hold some truly strange beliefs, and you will notice I don't put them out here. I am afraid of dirision. Once burned twice shy. I know how it hurts to be attacked. Some things in my youth still leave me hurting and aching. So, I would never hurt you. I believe differently, but never wish to belittle you or anyone. Take care, Callalilly

I respect your opinion on that. "To each his (or her) own." I'm not going to try to shove my religion down anyone else's throat--that's not my job. :)

Faith. And substance...

No I don't take the rhyme as gospel. <br />
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The point I'm trying to make with the nursery rhyme is this. Why would you only except the bible as truth and not the rhyme. When there is an equal amount of evidence to support both?

olegnad: Good for you that you've found something that works for you. How wonderful that you've discovered that knowledge is so important to you...<br />
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Personally, I value my beliefs over all else. And to answer your question (which may or may not have been rhetorical, but certainly SHOULD have been)--no, I don't take "Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack jump over the candlestick" as Gospel. Do you?

Believing is nothing and knowing is everything. I either know or I don't. I do not believe. There is nothing that definitively proves there is a god. Or that there is not a god. It's people that jump to conclusions that are the problem. Be it from either side. Anyway there are questions that are easier to definitively answer. Like, "Is there intelligent life on other planets". That question itself is yet to be answered. As far as religion goes. The only thing that supports them are the religious texts themselves. Do you take, "Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack jump over the candlestick", as gospel?

Yeah, pretty much sasxiv...

i guess the previous post is an example of the 'mock' you speak of...

The dislike, or hatred if you wish is a result of the insistence of Christianity to impose itself on everyone else. You are free to believe anything you want, in private. But once you feel it necessary to impose your beliefs on others, for their own good of course, then you step over the line.<br />
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If you want to believe in a personal invisible god and angels or demons fine, just do not think that others should share your beliefs.<br />
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Please stop trying to protect me from those things that you are afraid of. I can fend for myself, thank you.

I am so with you Girl4God. I know that Christ told us we'd be mocked for our faith, but it's still difficult when it's happening. Worst is when I see it happening to another believer, one who's not as strong in their faith as I am. There are times when the comments and criticisms are just so hurtful and black. <br />
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But then I realize that the person making those comments is probably doing so because they were hurt at some point, or maybe because they're afraid of faith/religion/God/whatever. At any rate, to attack someone for their faith, I would think you'd have to be coming from a pretty dark and angry place, so I try to pray for the people who do so. I know they probably wouldn't appreciate such a thing, so I don't even mention it to them most of the time, but I just offer up a silent prayer that God would open their eyes to see the amazing LOVE that He has for them. To see that whatever it was that hurt them, scared them or made them angry, was NOT Him. In the end, I think that's the best we Christians can do in such a situation.

I don't let it get to me anymore.<br />
I simply feel sorry for those who don't know God.<br />
I don't take offense, I simply show the love. : )

Girl4God, <br />
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I saw this topic when I was signing on, and could not find it once I logged in, but found it again. It struck me, and I was lead to learn more.<br />
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Christian Persecution... Yes, it happens. It has for two thousand years. More, really, when the followers of God were called Jewish. Does that make it right, NO, far from. <br />
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I am new to EP. I have met many wonderful, wonderful people. I have never been bashed, or felt poorly because I am a child of God. Jesus IS my Savior. And I try to show him thru my words and actions. I have not seen this poor behavior on EP other than some angry and confused people who start blogs about their religious anger. There are people who also say they hate their mother in law. Again, short sighted and angry people. <br />
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He is out here, and on EP. It is through His good works that this board came to be, so people may learn about Him, question him, and eventually accept Him thru the words and actions of those who do love Him. Remember, He loved the least loved. In Christs day, this was the leppers, ******, tax collectors. Today, we have computers, and our titles have changed. And we are not just in a village, but a planet without roads. <br />
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I have those days where I mourn the lack of Christian values, but I have to remember, He died for my sins, and the sins of others. I am grateful I live here, today in 2008, and not in the days Christ walked this earth. <br />
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Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Take that as a learning opportunity. Spread his unconditional love, and reap what you sow.

I totally agree, and it really can come from any direction, to and from people of any interest, situation, lifestyle, religion/lack thereof, etc. I'm not a Christian but I don't see the need to force everyone around me to be agnostic just because I am, or ridicule anyone for being different. I think I'd hate life if there was no variety. However, I do have a problem, for instance, with people who call themselves Christians but show no signs of actually being one--the ones that just quote scripture and obviously don't live by a word of it, or misconstrue it greatly.

Hypocrisy.

well let me ask you a question.if a person is a christian why are they so fast to judge everyone else and not clean out there own lives first.you know jesus said we are to love one another just as he has loved us.so why are so called christian people so judementall tell me that.i see a lot of them going to church everyday and act like a saint,but come out the door and go back to there ways of judgementall.now what do you call that?

Beautifully written Windyspirit. And So right.<br />
I believe in everyones freedom to believe and love, where ever thier heart may go. I also believe not matter what are beliefs are , we don't have preech them. Nobody's perfect! But when things happen in life, that hurt us. It happened for a reason, there was a lesson to be learned. Don't harden your heart or soul because you've been hurt.It will only harden your soul.Live and learn, learn to live. <br />
Peace 2008

I wonder where the 2000 people interviewed lived. Hmm? Valid question. I'm not saying anyone is always persecuted everywhere, just that persecution exists. Your obvious disdain for the idea doesn't bother me in the least. I'm sure you've been isolated, mocked, humiliated, or otherwise made to feel uncomfortable for something at some point in your life. And I don't know anything about you. Everybody is made into an outcast of sorts at some point or another; nothing makes one person more of a willing victim than another. Social judgment exists for everyone whether you acknowledge it or not.

sirlavitz grew up as a christian, but obviously had a terrible experiance with christianity. We dont have to argue with each other, judging is as much a sin for an atheist as a catholic. Just feel the love.

if you look at sirlavitz42's top experiences you'll see that one of them is "I am a Christian teenager". wtf?

I haven't read all the comments here but of the most recent ones, I haven't yet seen anyone justify or villify why it's ok to ridicule someone for their beliefs. They have answered your question about how they feel about it. I get annoyed but I don't defend my beliefs to them. I will point out to them it's rude to do so. As you may guess by this response, I am of the opinion it's never okay to ridicule a person's faith or beliefs.

Christian means "Christ-like". I don't believe I've met one yet. I don't think I'd like them if I did.

I know this is probably an entirely different subject, but I have never felt isolated or mocked because of my religion. I have however gotten a LOT of criticism because of the fact that I am bisexual, and believe in God. People say God doesn't accept me because of my decisions and what-not, that's why I decided not to follow any organized religion.

Hi, Girl4God...<br />
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Organised religion isn't for me, but it is for some people, and I would never persecute anyone for the way he or she chooses to communicate with a higher power.<br />
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That said, there are many Christians who view "spreading the Good News" as part of their relationship with their higher power. Too often, "spreading the Good News" consists of pressuring other human beings to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. That's not OK! It shows a complete and total disregard for 1) whatever choice the other person has made concerning a higher power; and 2) whether or not the person WANTS to hear this!<br />
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A relationship with a higher power is, to me, a very personal thing. I believe everyone should practice what they want in this regard -- however, certain Christians cross a line when they incessantly pressure others to believe as they do. Since I don't know you, Girl4God, I can't say that this is you. I can say that I think a lot of people take a negative view toward Christianity as a whole because of the way some Christians pressure others.

I would never judge or persecute someone based on something like religion, life style, or race. It's pointless and you miss a lot of opportunities to meet great people. I myself am in no position to judge others seeing as I'm a minority and I'm constantly hated on. Personally I don't follow any organized religion because I haven't found the one right for me. I fully respect others for their own decisions on what they want to believe and what they are, because honestly, who am I and who are you to tell another that they can't have a different religion or different life style? Though... People do lose my respect when they bash others or try to shove religion down their throats.

sirlavitz42: Thank you for that remarkable insight into the hearts of all mankind. I'll be certain to take this into consideration in the future. Have a delightful day! :)

ill be the one ****** who has to do this..<br />
the reason we mock you for your stupid *** religions is because you think that your religion will save you from what you have coming to you.<br />
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you ******* hypocrites you think that having a "relationship" with a false deity will promise you a better existence upon death..<br />
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when if you live in america and pay your taxes and drive a vehicle then you are already dead..<br />
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cut of to the fact that your behavior and the behavior of all the other that share a slice of current society are all equal to blame for destroying this planet..<br />
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and thier is nothing that can take that away.<br />
******* nothing.<br />
not a religion to hide behind..<br />
not a church to join so your not responsible for<br />
the blood and oil on the hands of america and her people.<br />
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why your religion is stupid..<br />
******* take a step back and look at what your actually following... its peasants wisdom...<br />
and completely fabricated in some parts..<br />
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relegion for a common brainless sheep as science is for the enlightend soul.<br />
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religion has died to be replaced by science if you deny this then your just another common brainless sheep contributing to degeneration of mankind and destruction of earth..<br />
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**** religion, **** governement, embrace nature. embrace the light and hold the darkness close to you.<br />
we are what we are.. men, primates and mammals.<br />
the lowly insignififant human............

I seen your story on the log-in page when i connected and wanted to say..HERE.. NO ONE WILL JUDGE YOU, at least not in a negative way, there are extremely wonderful people who run this site, and if they can't th ey will try to relate to you and your life..what this site is all about.. people who understand..Its all about learning to undertand, not sit and deny how a person wants to live their life, its not their choice, its COMPLETELY YOURS.. why they are "hating" would be their problem not yours.. I'm in a judging situation, and know i'm hated my life situation was changed for this hate..but if you are to move forward, its up to you to do that for yourself, because its obvious those people are not going to help..forget them.. enjoy YOUR LIFE while your here, because it passes by to fast to be worried about what others say....

It seems we live in a time when the walking wounded are all around us. There are many with wounded and bruised egos that simply need a kind word of encouragement and to be wrapped in a blanket of belonging. <br />
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Why do so many people see themselves as "Victims"? Troubles in life come to all people of every socio-economic background, religion and race. The purpose of life isn't to find fault or place blame, but to manage, correct, improve and overcome life’s obstacles as we are faced with them. No doubt, there are injustices in life and many events or situations we endure are not fair. But, we deceive ourselves to think that it is the responsibility of others to “make” our lives “ok”. <br />
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So often, we find ourselves in situations where “we don’t know what we don’t know.” Let me share an example of a small infant. This infant is just learning to crawl. She is dressed for bed in her little fleece pajamas and begins by pushing herself backward around the house. Backing herself around, she gets lodged beneath the furniture. There she thrashes about – crying and banging her little head against the sides and undersides of the furniture. She is stuck and hates it. So, she does the only thing she can think of to get herself out – she pushes even harder, which only worsens her problem. She is more stuck than ever.<br />
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If this infant could speak, she would blame the furniture (life’s obstacles) for her troubles. She, after all, is doing everything she can think of. The problem couldn’t possibly be hers. But, of course, the problem is hers, even though she can’t see it. The problem is, that she can’t see how she is the problem. So, nothing she can think of will be a solution.<br />
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Applicable to life? I say yes.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:<br />
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History is exactly that--history. And it should stay that way! <br />
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And this theory that WASPs are incapable of being oppressed? Bogus. It's bunk. In a LOT of places--including the town I live in, by the way--WASPs are DEFINITELY not the "majority." They're almost non-existent! You talk about stereotypes, and then stereotype everything. Hmm...<br />
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And you know what else? People like you are absolutely hypocritical when speaking about things of this nature. You complain that religion is in any way, shape, or form allowed to be present in any aspect of daily life that you might have to encounter. Hello! You want to remove religious rights! Um, isn't that what you're supposedly completely against, removing peoples' right to believe any way they see fit? <br />
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SINCERELY,<br />
A CONCERNED FELLOW HUMAN BEING.

Additionally, there is a difference between believing in God and wanting to take your religion and beliefs and apply it to legislation that governs EVERYONE. For example, if you don't believe in gay marriage or in abortion, then don't marry someone of the same sex or get an abortion. But the bottom line is, as much as it is YOUR personal right to believe one thing, it is everyone else's personal right to believe another. Taking things like religious belief and expecting to be able to transfer those belief systems to a law that legislates everyone, is absolutely unfair, ridiculous, selfish, and insane.

Ok, you can be a jerk to someone, you can reject them, you can insult them.... but you CANNOT "oppress" a person who is in a role where they are historically more powerful. The reality is that yes, "white, anglo-saxon men" sometimes get bullied by people who have HISTORICALLY been CONSTANTLY oppressed by such men. However, at the end of the day, white men make more money then non-white, women.

I agree with Wolfen. I have friends who are Christians and who aren't. We respect each other and our different beliefs. What the person is really like is what matters. We can't stereotype people according to what religion they are. There are people out there that don't believe in God and make it miserable for people who do. It is their own ignorance to be that way. They just don't have respect for other people.

LadyAmarantha: You're completely correct. You've eloquently put into words precisely the feelings that motivated me to write this, actually. I'm tired of everyon being put into a box with a label on it because they happen to fall into a certain subcategory of one type or another. When you get right down to it, we're all just people. We're al individals. There's no need to lump people together based on minute criteria and deciding that that supposedly epitomizes who they are. I think we can all agree that just because a person is, for example, a woman, that person is NOT necessarily going to be emotionally-driven or aching to reproduce (typical stereotypes of women, no offense intended to anyone). It's ridiculous to try and turn people into mathematical equations.

As an American, I have to admit that my country was founded by christians who came over from europe, took over the land and drove out the "savages" who were here first. <br />
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Now as the majority, there are far too many christians claiming to be oppressed. Exactly how is the majority oppressed? Because the minority demands it's right to be heard? Because the minority is sick of being disounted? <br />
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To me it is as ridiculous as a rich white man living in a rich white neighborhood claiming oppression. <br />
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Everyone is equal in my eyes. All of us are human, no matter what your beliefs or race. And like crayons, a$$holes and morons come in all colors. So do brilliant and kind people.<br />
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I don't judge individuals by their race or religion, I judge them based on their actions and how they treat others. I dislike people who put superstition over what is right in front of them. I dislike people who are hypocrites. I dislike people who have nothing better to do with their lives than judge and harass me or other people for not being like them. I dislike people who preach hate. I dislike people who preach violence. I also truly dislike narrow minded people. <br />
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And all of those come in all colors and all religions.<br />
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I like people who are funny. I like people who use their God given brains to reason and think. I like people who are kind. I like people who know how to agree to disagree. I like people who stand up for themselves when being genuinely oppressed or faced with injustice. <br />
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Those also come in all colors and all religions.

And now, in the so-called "enlightened" world, the progeny of the oppressed are exacting their revenge.<br />
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Apparently, the tables may be turned, but things haven't changed.

Christians have always been the oppressors, the ones with the power, and the ones with the money throughout history. You may have forgotten a little bitty thing called.... the Crusades??? Not to mention years, years, years, and MORE years of colonizing (killing, raping, stealing people's land and resources) that Christians engaged in to help "save" people.

I don't worry about it anymore. In my beliefs of God, they only prove me right everytime they do that. It's sort of like a "Doth Protest Much" to me. I also know where I'm going, so whatever happens in this realm doesn't matter in the end result. They can't stop that no matter what the hell they do. They could jump off a building, kill me, torture me, any and all of the above and they could not stop it. <br />
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By the way, to even speak of a religious belief or to talk to somebody about it, has lately been considered "shoving it down my throat". Does talking hurt anyone? No. So you shove it down your own throat. It's your *** if you take offense.

Verse 20 clearly states, "the Lord [was] working with THEM and CONFIRMING the word THROUGH the accompanying signs." <br />
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You can't just read verses and apply them as desired. You have to examine the context of the verses.

The text is clear as day! It obviously does not refer to the eleven. Corinthians 13 would be a better argument.<br />
Christ said we would do greater things than Him because He would intercede for us after the ascension!<br />
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And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. <br />
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Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. <br />
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Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; <br />
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Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mark 16:17-18 applies to the eleven remaining disciples at the time it was spoken, not to Christians today. Verse 20 says, "And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word throuh the accompanying signs." That's that. It was the eleven disciples who were able (through belief) to cast out demons; speak with new tongues; take up serpents; drink poison; heal through the laying on of hands. Not modern-day followers of Christ.

I want to call myself a Christian, but it's hard in light of Mark 16:16-18<br />
(..but I do know that I should have been dead many times in my life, and I attribute that to a higher power!<br />
Also Christianity is the only religion where God reaches out to humanity, rather than humanity reaching out to God.......I've checked!)

ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. <br />
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24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. <br />
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25Behold, I have told you before. <br />
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26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Here I go again<br />
<br />
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

i written some things about '' christans'' and i stand by my blogs becalse if you read what so called christand sister in law did to me and my husband its why ive written about my life and things people calling thier selfs christans , iam a christan. i wouldnt judge you becalse i dont know you . but you seem really nice. i know there are good christans and bad ones but my sister in law is over the top with some of the things shes done to us in the name of religin. please dont take effence of what ive written about my life and christans have doen to me but just take the time to read a few of my blogs and storys. dont take what ive written about my life personally ok . thanks karla "lunnas'

Hehe, I wish. I loove comments... There can never be enough! But seriously, it's not about how many there are, it's about what they say.<br />
<br />
It's not about the comments, it's about the commenters.<br />
<br />
Something like that? ;)

You sure know how to get a lot of comments!!!<br />
Another....another...!!!<br />
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((wink))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Nice perspective there, antiyou... A lot of us tend to lose sight of the *good* in our situations. I know that I'm lucky not to be one of the people facing death just for walking out my front door with a cross necklace on...

treefrogz you stated-- 'The only disdainful and attack-like comments I read were from those who are not Christians.'<br />
<br />
were any of mine offensive; i am not a christian.<br />
<br />
and then you added-- 'Well, all I really wanted to say is what I've said hundreds of times before, please don't lump all Christians into one wagon of idiots.'<br />
<br />
well, treefrogz, try not to do the same to non christians.<br />
<br />
i also wanted to add, the only thing that truly irritates me about certain christians [besides how they try to convert me] is the fact that they feel so persecuted. [this statement is not intented for christians living outside of america]. but if you are a christian born and raised here in the united states, you need to stop whining. no one has forced you out of your home or tried to kill you based on your religion. granted no one has done that to me either, which is why i dont go around crying about the bits of ridicule that i am given for being an athiest.

yes especially a bag of old farts.

TF.......you're a breath of fresh air! I however am an old fart.

Matthew Chapter Twenty three.

Back to persecution.....Christians aren't persecuted today in the US. They are in China, Parts of Africa, and the Middle East. Read "Fox's Book of Martyrs."<br />
Also Christianity is what you do, not what you say.<br />
I can't resist these conversations. They stir up old convictions and make me re-evaluate my own spiritual condition, which is a mess by the way! I'm going to have to start my own thread now!

Nice, smeb... And btw, American Christians are persecuting EVERYONE; don't feel special just 'cuz you're an atheist. ;) They persecute EACH OTHER, just because they can. They're a damnable group of people and just don't realize what they're doing to themselves because, frankly, I think they just don't give a hoot.<br />
<br />
And btw, I don't listen to you because you're an atheist. I listen to you because you're a human being, and as such I have a possibility to learn something from you. I'm big on learning. I won't mock you for your atheism if you don't mock me for my Christianity... ;) And about the strange comment? I certainly resemble that remark... :P

I'm insulted every time someone tells me I'm going to hell, I feel like they are imagining me in agony for their own pleasure.<br />
<br />
I hope no-one here is in America, otherwise this earns the prize as no.1 hypocritical story (Based on comments). American Christians are persecuting atheists, it is the strangest thing that the group of people that might just compose of the smartest most open-minded hopeful people are the group that should be seen as unfit to care for children let alone run a country. <br />
There are so many insane trains of thought in this group, it’s one big god-****. Sure, on EP you might get a few questions that shake your faith (In other words insult you) but in the real world I see no way you could experience this persecution you all refer to. Atheists are the ones who suffer, all because we do not believe in the supernatural… that is the greatest injustice.<br />
<br />
<br />
I’m going to say this, because I feel I should.<br />
If you are all right, and your religion is somehow the right one, with the right facts and the right God… Then why worry about persecution? If you really know you’re right then why not pray for help, even better…pray for evidence! Lol<br />
Seriously though, why worry? Within the crazy world you live in there are plenty of reasons to not bother listening to an atheist, no matter how much sense we make (If we make sense… it must be the DEVILS work!) <br />
Oh you people, you're so strange I almost have to laugh.

By the way persecution for a real Christian is a blessing of the highest order!!<br />
In this country no one has been burnt at the stake or decapitated, garotted, tied to the horns of a bull, had boiling water poured into their private parts, I hope!<br />
There are three kinds of believers.<br />
Believers<br />
Non-believers<br />
and Make believers.

Yes...This convicts me as much as anyone!<br />
<br />
Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters! Let every person be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. 20 For human anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness. . . 26 If someone thinks he is religious yet does not bridle his tongue, and so deceives his heart, his religion is futile. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their misfortune and to keep oneself unstained by the world (James 1:19-20, 26-27, emphasis mine).27

Persecution, historically has always strengthened the true Church. Real persecution tends to separate the pretenders from the contenders!I have some resentment towards so many who call themselves Christians, but pick and choose to adhere to only certain teachings of Christ, the teachings they find convenient, or those who have somehow used Christ to represent their bigotry and hatred. Then there are those who insist on being so superstitious as to make Christians look unbelievably stupid. The ones who talk about the war like it's a football game, and have a fit if a breast is exposed, the ones who can look at the stars on a clear night and say the earth is less than ten thousand years old. Morons! The ones who can't accept a scientific fact, like adaptation and natural selection over a long period of time is E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N<br />
Those who are martyred for their testimony in Christ are the Saints in the Body of Christ. Those who bring persecution upon the Church by hiding ignorance and bigotry (hate) behind a veil of Religiosity, and holding on to ridiculous superstitions, are enemies of the Church.

WightCrow: Thanks for the comment... It pretty much sucks that EVERY SINGLE GROUP OF PEOPLE has experienced such intolerance on some levels. There is no single group that is immune. I think it's ridiclous that this is what the world has come to; that people are coached and commanded to just be themselves, and then singled out for being who they are. The entire world is turning into a contradiction...

I know exactly how you feel. For as long as I can remember, I have been persecuted, mocked, and mistreated both because of my beliefs AND because of my way of life. I am a Bisexual Atheist, and my entire life people have told me that who I am is unacceptable, that it is wrong to not believe, or to be attracted to both sexes. I have had people of all beliefs, all sexual preferences, and all walks of life tell me that who I am and what I believe is wrong. I am sorry that you have gone through the same thing because of what you believe. <br />
<br />
I think that part of the reason that so many people on here seem anti-Christian (or anti-religion in general) is because they have experienced some of the same prejudice that you have gone through. Religious people pick on non-religous people, and non-religous people pick on religous people. It's very sad, and it just continues the cycle of hate. We should all be allowed to believe as we like and be who we are, without anyone telling us that it is wrong, or mocking, isolating, and persecuting us because of it. Most of all we should be free from people trying to force their own beliefs and values on us, which seems to be one of the things that you have experienced. No one has absolutely identical views on anything; I wish that people who are cruel to others could understand this, and learn to accept it. I mean, I have friends from all religions, all sexual preferences, and all walks of life, and we all get along fine! We discuss our differences, but we also respect them. I think what really makes it work is that while we do discuss our differences, none of us ever attack each other, or try to force our views on each other. It seems like most people, regardless what they do or do not believe, end up trying to do that at some point--I think that this is part of the reason that people of all beliefs seem to have problems with judgements, intolerance, and oppression.<br />
<br />
Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. I basically just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you've encountered such intolerance. I hope that you can overcome this, and that you won't let it affect either your faith or your friendships with people of other beliefs. People who won't let you believe as you want aren't worth your time--especially when there are plenty of us out there who realize that it's not the race, religion, or sexual preference of someone that matters--it's the PERSON themselves. I hope you find people who realize that! Good luck!

If you know of cases of specific EP members being <b>isolated and persecuted</b> for their religious beliefs you should report this behaviour to the EP, it may be in violation of the Terms of Service.<br />
<br />
Apart from people responding defensively to intrusions into their safe spaces however, I do not believe I have seen any such behaviour.<br />
<br />
In all my time here, I have come across many diatribes directed at all sorts of belief systems. I have, however, only come across one hate-mongering-story, and that was directed at Islam, not at Christianity. By hate mongering story, I am talking about someone who is not sharing their own negative experiences with a belief system. Obviously if someone has personally had a bad experience, then it is well within their rights to share that, and how can anyone reasonably label that as persecution?

I choose not to mock or make fun of anybody's religion regardless of whether they're Christian or not. Everybody has the right to practice religion or not and everybody has the right to share their views/opinions.<br />
<br />
I'm not a Christian myself but that's just me.

Or maybe my attorney knew me better than that and had it arranged beforehand, lol<br />
<br />
It is possible, his son and I were friends in high school.

I AM in the bible belt, at least I consider Texas part of the Bible belt<br />
<br />
I think they only moved away from it because we have a higher number of Catholics here and it would be confusing which Bible they had to swear on

I know every time I had to testify in court, I was required to swear on the Bible ... that what I was about to give testimony to was the truth and nothing but the truth, I solemnly swear.<br />
Maybe in other parts of our country it isn't a requirement anymore. Maybe one reason our country is moving into a third world flop house for foreigners.

lol If you were in the Bible belt, eyes, you'd have been S.O.L.... ;)

Do you even swear on the bible in court anymore? The two times I was sworn in, I was not required to swear on a bible, just to swear. <br />
<br />
Good thing too. That is one time I would have felt morally obligated to pitch a fit, and that would have hurt my case, a lot probably.

No tension here, just the old aches and pains, ha

LOL... Much needed relief of tension. :)

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas & Happy New Year. <br />
<br />
Something to think about this season .....<br />
<br />
Smile <br />
<br />
Now that food has replaced sex in my life, I can't even get into my own pants.<br />
<br />
Marriage changes passion. <br />
Suddenly you're in bed with a relative.<br />
<br />
I saw a woman wearing a sweat shirt with "Guess" on it. <br />
So I said "Implants?" She hit me.<br />
<br />
How come we choose from just two people to <br />
run for Prime Minister and over fifty for Miss Australia? <br />
<br />
I signed up for an exercise class and was told to wear loose-fitting clothing. If I HAD any loose-fitting clothing, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place!<br />
<br />
When I was young we used to go "skinny dipping," now I just "chunky dunk." <br />
<br />
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may <br />
not be able to tell the difference.<br />
<br />
Wouldn't it be nice if whenever we messed up our life we could simply press 'Ctrl Alt Delete' and start all over? AMEN, AMEN !! <br />
<br />
Wouldn't you know it... <br />
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but FAT cells live forever. <br />
<br />
Why do I have to swear on the Bible in court <br />
when the Ten Commandments cannot be <br />
displayed outside?<br />
<br />
Bumper sticker of the year: <br />
"If you can read this, thank a teacher -and, since it's in English, thank a soldier" <br />
<br />
And remember:life is like a roll of toilet paper. <br />
The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes. <br />
Ya just might want to pass this along..<br />
<br />
Jim

Hmmmm. This subject has turned out to be a case of some seriously written volleyball here. I will only say in my behalf, I'm not judging anyone here, or to say anyone should have to do this or that ..... I have enough crap in my own back yard before I will attempt to clean anyone else's. We all have skeletons in our closets here and that no one here is an angel. I believe, key words here, 'I believe' talking about myself here ... That each person will deal with their own beliefs in God or whoever ... that is their right and choice ... God will decide the rest for whatever or whoever. I for one am not saying that one religion or belief is any better than the other one ... I for one only try to struggle through this world of differences the best way I can. This is just to let you know where I am coming from.

And that's why we pray that God reaches out to other nonbelievers... :)

I know I act like a kid when I'm not "winning." I hate that feeling of defeat, of being slighted, of being acknowledged as less-than-perfect. I have issues, lol... I think we all get this way. It's human nature. I'm certainly not mature all the time; I KNOW there are situations I could handle better than I do.<br />
<br />
And you make very good points, antiyou... :D

--'As far as rolling with the punches, getting used to ridicule and such... There is NO excuse for ANYONE to be behaving in these ways. Ya know? What are we, like, six years old here? 'Cause I know one thing...'<br />
'My Father's gonna kick your "father's" butt! ;) Kidding. You get the idea. Or maybe you don't... But I'm pretty sure you will.'<br />
<br />
i know it wasnt the best solution. and no its not acceptable for people to act this way, and i wasnt condoning their actions at all. but all i can say, girl4god, people have mocked me before [they may or may not have realized it]. i find it easier to just get over it and not let it bother me. what is that phrase...'turn the other cheek'. good words to live by, regardless of where they came from. it sure beats whining, crying, or being angry about it. and sadly, not everyones nice. and some adults to still tend to act like six year olds. its crappy, i know, but its fact. you just have to ignore those that offend you and enbrace those that dont.

here, here, JD, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." I am much too judgmental in certain aspects of my life, and I'd really like to work through it. On the aspect of religion though, I feel like I have managed to stay on a pretty even keel. My spiritual life is still evolving, and will continue to. I guess that the only way that I can explain it is that I am conflicted by denomination and methodology of worship, if that makes sense. I was raised a Traditional Catholic going to Latin Mass etc. My head was kept covered inside the church, I was expected to follow the "Marian" standards of modesty and dress both in and out of the church. For awhile, my Dad tried to enforce a "no pants for girls" rule, but that was a big, fat NO GO. <br />
<br />
Spacenut, I totally am with you 110% on the don't preach to me thing, because of my parents zeal, I spent a looooong time completely devoid of spirituality or religion, whatever you want to call it. I'm only now really starting to come to terms with God and right now, I'm taking a small break from my dive into non-denominational Protestantism, and continuing my break from Catholicism and trying to figure out where the heck I fit in. I honestly think that because of my upbringing, I may never find a church that truly suits me. I may have to continue to simply follow the Golden Rule, and the Ten Commandments and live my life by love as I have been doing since I married my husband. Who knows. <br />
<br />
Girl4God, it is so hard when someone mocks you for anything you believe strongly in, and I want you to know that I ask the Father to wrap his arms around you and keep you safe and to mend your heart.