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I Have Antisocial Personality Disorder

Aspd Not Exactly Equal To Sociopath?

By: scratchedxthornxwrists
Written on July 1st, 2012
Age: 36-40 , Female
544 people have read this story

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21 responses
  • markus55

    You "sheepdog" might be a person with only a few traits of antisocial personality disorder. A sociopath(=psychopath) however is and always will be a wolf. In the current state of knowledge one assumes that a sociopath derives from a genetic predisposition coupled with poor upbringing

    Dec 19, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      sociopath and psychopath are not the same. a psychopath is the way they are no matter whether they had a good or bad upbringing. a sociopath is the way they are because of a "bad upbringing", but would be good with a "good upbringing" (where i don't know exactly what would constitute good or bad upbringing for these kids). but not everyone with that same "bad upbringing" is going to develop aspd, only some will. this indicates that there is such a thing as "sociopathic wiring" (though it probably should be called something less stigmatizing) which is present from birth, regardless of the child's upbringing. this is what i'm talking about here. i think maybe the psychopaths are the ones with "real" aspd, whereas the sociopathic version of aspd is just a learnt set of behaviours which can be unlearnt, a set of coping mechanisms rather than a set of maladaptive behaviours that are hardwired hence very difficult to cure.

      Dec 19, 2012
      1 like
  • markus55

    You mention a psychopath doing good quite a few times, but there is no such thing. The very definition of a psychopath describes a person without feelings, guilt, a healthy conscience and no desire whatsoever to follow moral or ethic rules. There might be people diagnosed with light antisocial p. d. who do "good" but certainly not a full blown psychopath.

    Dec 19, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      i never mentioned psychopath in this story. my terminology was "anti-social personality disorder" and sociopath.

      Dec 19, 2012
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  • Rage21

    After reading your story, I found an inconsistency. You assume sociopaths are "wired"; if this is to be a reference to genetics then you are greatly mistaken. Sociopaths are not born, they are created by society (hence the name). ASPD, however, has both genetic and societal precursors. Your question as to whether a sociopath is a wolf or a sheep dog: A sociopath is a dog that's been mistreated. You are right to think that ASPD is mostly an adolescent behavioral disorder; most sociopaths are diagnosed with that first because of the developing conscience present in teens. ASPD clients are still learning emotions and behaviors, where as a sociopath has a fully developed brain and is still having difficulty functioning in society. The main thing to understand about a sociopath is that they do have the ability of empathy and sympathy towards others, it is due to their background that they either choose to ingore it or cannot access it. Your view of a well-functioning sociopath would be a recovered sociopath with the learned ability of self-actualization and social concern. True, a sociopath can exist in the social world and stay under the radar of the law, but that doesn't mean they are doing "good" they're just very smart and controlled enough within themselves to not get caught.

    Sep 17, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      i dunno, i'm just exploring the ideas, questioning the orthodoxy. maybe i'm confused by the terminology too. i thought that ASPD was a subset of the sociopaths, where most sociopaths are just the way they are, fully functioning members of society, though with a dark edge, but those with the disorder are the same except dysfunctional in some way. but if psychologists have a different interpretation, that doesn't surprise me, it's a silly scientific discipline. you say a sociopath is a mistreated dog - i.e. not a sheep - where do you place neurotypicals in your analogy? are they sheep, or are they dogs who have been treated well? are you saying that sociopaths are neurotypicals who are damaged from abuse? i'm not sure that they always are. i think some sociopaths are more a product of nature, some more of nurture.

      Sep 17, 2012
      1 like
    • Rage21

      To follow your categories of humans then I would define "sheep" as emotes and extreme empaths that, if abused, would be affected inwardly and become suicidal/depressed rather than mirror their abuser. I understand from your description that you see similarity between "sheep dogs" and "wolves" that they are the same genetic make-up only one has impulse control; whereas, you should define "sheep dogs" as strong neurotypicals that have not been abused or that have and have not succumb to any psychological illness because of it. I see sociopaths as "damaged dogs" because they are affected differently than both, they do not break down rather their mind allows them the ability to not care and to become their abuser as a way of dealing. Sociopaths do have a genetic susceptibility of course, but if they weren't mistreated they would be completely normal "sheep dogs". Your "wolves" are those that are genetically different by no help from society in any rate. You see the" wolf" aspect in psychopaths and some schizophrenics. They are genetically created and, either due to delusion or brain function failure, cannot experience empathy or emotional connection on a socially accepted level.

      Sep 17, 2012
      1 like
    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      the context where i heard of sheep/sheepdog/wolf was political, and the idea was that people could choose which of the three to be. i was of the view that a sheep could not choose to be a sheepdog or wolf, nor could a sheepdog or wolf choose to be a sheep, but canines could choose to be either sheepdog or wolf, and sheep could at least discern the difference between sheepdog and wolf. but since i've well and truly dragged it across to the psychological context now, i think i prefer your version of sheep/sheepdog/wolf/mistreated dog. i might even edit my story to reflect your idea, one of these days. but anyway, it seems that we are in agreement that there is different wiring involved, because an abused sheep-person does not become a sociopath, maybe they develop borderline or something else, like you said, suicidal depression. only the sheepdog-person is susceptible, if abused, to becoming a clinical sociopath. i would call the non-damaged sheepdog-person a sub-clinical sociopath, or sociopathically wired (for want of better terminology that does not include the stigmatized word 'sociopath') because there is some kind of wiring they share with the clinical sociopath, therefore they could build a bridge of understanding between the neurotypicals, sociopaths, and maybe even the behaviourally similar psychopath.

      Sep 19, 2012
      1 like
    • Rage21

      I'm glad I could help clarify something's for you. We do seem to be on the same page now. You seem like a very intelligent person; I have enjoyed conversing with you.

      Sep 19, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      thank you! that's what i like about this website, people want to get on the same page, not like forums where it tends to be all arguments and debates.

      Sep 24, 2012
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    • Rage21

      You're welcome, anytime. Ahh, I have seen some forum aspects on this site, but I agree still, it is slightly better.

      Sep 24, 2012
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    3 More Replies
  • PMurinus

    ASPD is a very behavioral diagnosis. Trying to say that ASPD sufferers are classic sociopaths while NPD are classic psychopaths isn't really correct. Both classic psychopaths and classic sociopaths are lumped into the current definition of ASPD so long as they've failed to control their impulses.



    If someone has themselves well under control, they probably won't be diagnosed with a personality disorder at all, whether or not they are unusually egocentric and amoral. If their personal life is in disarray but they don't get in a lot of legal trouble, they'll likely be diagnosed with something that isn't ASPD.



    People who end up with the ASPD label have almost always had a lot of trouble with the law. It's in the definition, which sort of culls out people who are the same in every way except impulse control. It's a pretty poor diagnosis in that respect. A lack of acknowledgement that wolves and dogs are the same animal at their

    Aug 21, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      there's the idea of "subclinical". i see it in the autism community, where there are people who actually have been diagnosed with high functioning autism or aspergers, and then there are the people who were never diagnosed, who don't have the same degree of difficulties as those with a diagnosis, but who identify with clinically autistic people because the difficulties they do have are similar, or they prefer to think and act the same way. they have adapted to the neurotypical world, but they know they are different and would feel more at home in an autistic world. they are subclinical autistics. in the same way, there are the people who have or could have been diagnosed with ASPD, or with NPD, HPD or BPD, and then there are the people whose difficulties are not so great, who successfully control themselves and adapt to society. they are subclinical sociopaths or narcissists or what have you. when i had a peek into sociopath world, i had the impression that the sociopaths there were by vast majority subclinical.

      Aug 21, 2012
      1 like
    • PMurinus

      I'm mostly commenting on the fact that psychopaths and sociopaths can't be divvied up among NPD vs ASPD, because a major dividing line between the two, diagnostically, is how much trouble the person has gotten into. Bizarre but true for the moment.

      Aug 21, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      i don't understand why you're arguing against "ASPD=sociopath and NPD=psychopath", when i never even mentioned psychopath in my story or comments, let alone equated it to NPD. i only mentioned NPD (a) because it's in the same cluster and (b) for comparison of the clinical/subclinical distinctions in both. youthful narcissists get their narcissism knocked out of them by life experience, while youthful sociopaths get their anti-social tendencies knocked out of them by jail time or fines. in both cases, there are people who will never wake up to themselves no matter how many hard knocks they cop. that's the point of my article.

      Aug 21, 2012
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    • PMurinus

      What on earth...? Sorry, I'm hella sleep deprived. Just reread it and have no idea what I'm talking about. Must have slipped into dreaming without realizing it.

      Aug 21, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      that's ok. what you said made sense in its own right, just not as a reply to my story, that's all.

      Aug 22, 2012
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    2 More Replies
  • aalb1106

    That doesn’t mean that the particular temperament an individual was born with will always lead to the development of a certain personality. Risk factors such as child abuse, neglect, parents with psych disorders/addictions, etc, will predispose them to developing more “destructive” personalities (whether it be toward themselves or others). And it doesn’t mean that a child with a perfect upbringing won’t develop a destructive personality disorder.

    For example, manipulation of others is a major trait among people with anti-social personality disorders. Believe it or not, there are children who at a VERY young age develop a keen interest in understanding how people react to the world around them.. they see and remember what makes people cry, laugh, and smile.. thus, they learn how to manipulate people at a very young age, without realizing whether it’s right or wrong.

    This isn’t the normal conditioning seen in a young child, who knows if he/she cries their parents will more likely react in a way that benefits them.. The children I’m speaking of are more intuitive than that. But not every child w/ this trait actually uses it to their personal advantage if their temperament allows them to be content in the world without having to manipulate anything. but some of these children do use their understanding to manipulate people at a very young age, just to see and confirm how people react.

    If they continue to do this throughout childhood and adolescence, they will more than likely try to manipulate everyone around them throughout adulthood (even when they know it is wrong) in order to fulfill their personal needs and expectations. Why? They begin to manipulation the world around them at a very young age to get what they want without knowing it’s wrong; because they’re capable of manipulating/controlling the people around them they never learn how to deal with an ever-changing environment.

    Thus, they continue to manipulate others as adults because: A) The are personal advantages it provides. B) They don’t learn other ways to get what they want or deal with the world. C) Their brain developed dense networks of neurons in the pathways that, since childhood, have lead them to believe the world is in their hands.

    What does any of this have to do with antisocial disorder? Think about it, if you didn’t know how to deal with an ever changing world, you’d be antisocial too. Now it all makes sense…

    Jul 21, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      so that's cognitive empathy. sociopaths are really good at it. some neurotypicals are too, but most are only good at it by default, because nearly everyone is the same as them, so they get a 98% success rate. but there is still a difference between the sociopath and the neurotypical with stellar cognitive empathy. their internal emotions are completely different, from what i understand. neurotypicals have affective empathy to match the cognitive empathy 98% of the time, but sociopaths do not... however, i wonder if sociopaths have affective empathy for eachother?

      Jul 22, 2012
      1 like
  • aalb1106

    Hey, I came to this site because I too am trying understand people with personality disorders that can function normally while suppressing their inner drives, and whether or not it's a phase. Why am I interested? Because although I've only been diagnosed with ADHD, my thought processes are anything but normal (not in much of a destructive way, more like i have trouble understanding how others are socialized and thus I use different parts of my brain to perceive the world and communicate w/ others).. and i cant help but wonder if I have aspergers or an underlying PD. anyway... my 3 years of med school has taught me a lot about PDs. people acquire them due to genetic traits and environmental factors (how they were raised).Temperament is the genetic portion of what predisposes us to acquiring a particular personality. Temperament is what we were like as infants and toddlers; shy, happy, sad, etc. we can't change that, we're born with those traits. and as you can imagine, shy, happy, and sad children grow up perceiving the world differently. Personality is developed through those pereptions all throughout childhood.. that's where an individuals upbringing plays a major role. A personality disorder is acquired through perceiving the world and people a particular way and when that perception is reaffirmed, the brain becomes wired to expect certain outcomes, literally... The pathway of nerves in the brain for that thought process becomes more dense, and physically through path of least resistance, that is the path the brain will use to perceive most things; that is how we become wired and create a personality. The more a child's perceptions are reaffirmed, the denser those neurons get and by thw end of high school, it's nearly hard wired.

    Jul 21, 2012
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    • scratchedxthornxwrists

      i wonder if autistic spectrum people (including subclinical aspergerish people) are more susceptible to developing personality disorders than neurotypical children (without autistic tendencies)? however, while narcissistic and borderline have similarities with aspergers, with cognitive empathy difficulties and coping difficulties respectively, the sociopath seems completely opposite to aspergers in these ways. i think it's the impulsivity that distinguishes the subclinical sociopath from the one with the disorder.

      Jul 22, 2012
      1 like