Done.

I feel you have to go through something to understand it , thats with everything I know and expecially borderline personality disorder . Its a debilitating mental disorder , and yes it is over dignosed by physchaitrists ,but you can traits of the disorder and not have the full blown diagnose of bpd too , It at its worst stages in the late teens and early 20s for thats when I had it at its worst. mishy40

THIS IS GAY

Unfortunately, this scenario here is exactly the reason I do not engage in online posting typically. It was definitely an anomaly for me to sign up here, however, I was in great need last night, and the site provided some relief for me. I am responding because this topic is very important to me. I am not attempting to offend you, so please read my points without posting another offensive retort. I would also like to add that I typically have a problem where I come off cold in my writing. Please know that I am actually a very warm person, I am not trying to be cold but instead to help you understand my position. On that note…



I think you misunderstood what I was saying and made assumptions about me that are untrue. I don't appreciate that. Actually, I think we have put each other at odds here. Your original post offended me because it felt invalidating to me. However, I apologize if my phrasing of the sentence “I'm sorry but your ignorance of this diagnosis, and of the psychological field is glaringly obvious,” was offensive. In retrospect I can see how my language was inflammatory and could upset you. But I am very offended that you would call me uninformed when it was you who admitted to being uninformed. You do not know my background, or the extent of schooling, education, and research I have done in this field. Moreover, I didn't say the DSM-IV-TR is my bible, haha, not AT ALL!! And Scientism is not my religion. Please don’t throw labels at me.



You started your post off saying “I don’t get it,” so I replied that no you don’t, you are uninformed by self-admittance. You say you know what a personality disorder is because you have known people who exhibit certain traits. I argued that only people with the PD know what it is like, and that the traits you listed are not actual diagnoses. I did not say that the DSM-IV-TR does not mention the characteristics you did in relation to some personality disorders. I said "First off no where in the DSM-IV-TR are ‘victimizers, stalkers, users, liars, betrayers’ listed as personality disorders." And that IS true, there is no specific personality disorder called Stalker PD, or Liar PD, or Victimizer PD. If you note, I did not say that narcissistic PD is not a disorder, because it is. NPD is listed as a personality disorder. I was simply stating that you did not use clear enough language, and in turn you misinterpreted my language, and put words into my mouth, that I never spoke/wrote. I suggest reading my post again…



I'm sorry but your ignorance of this diagnosis, and of the psychological field is glaringly obvious. First off nowhere in the DSM-IV-TR are "victimizers, stalkers, users, liars, betrayers" listed as personality disorders. Secondly, please don't invalidate this incredibly painful illness, people with BPD have been invalidated enough in their lives. Thirdly, I'm not sure anyone who has not lived with BPD can really understand it. Sometimes I don't either. But I think you are right when you say, "whatever young people with these BPD diagnoses are suffering, it can be traced back to traumatic episodes in childhood or anytime thereafter. And those traumas keep surfacing."



I would like to point out that my post was very short, and I actually agreed with the point you made about childhood trauma. I don’t think my post should have elicited the responses you posted.



I made three points and somehow from that you have decided that the DSM-IV is my bible, I have no bible. You assumed I subscribe to Scientism as a religion, when you should not assume that I ascribe to any religion from the posting I made.

I as well consider psychology to be a pseudo science, despite empirical research studies that claim to validate its science because the truth is that psychology is highly subjective. The article “On Being Sane in Insane Places” and the experiment discussed provide wonderful insight to this. But my personal experience with BPD is what I am relating here. I have been diagnosed with it and the criterion fit me, every single one, every definition I find fit me so well that it is astonishing. I was not arguing that BPD is over-diagnosed, I simply felt that your first post was invalidating of the struggle I have faced with the diagnosis, the associated symptoms, and the stigma, because for me it was not a blanket diagnosis but the diagnosis that was decided upon five years ago after thirteen years in therapy, and nine years on an impressively long list of different medications. Not only do I have personal experience with the downside of labeling people with diagnosis but I have also done extensive research on the nature of language in relation to mental health disorders. The biggest issue is the phrasing “a borderline personality” or “a schizophrenic” instead of “a person with borderline personality disorder,” or “a person with schizophrenia.” The first phrase connotes a type of person, whereas the second connotes a person with a type of disorder. Do you see the difference? For example, someone who possesses cancer can overcome it, someone who is cancer cannot. So someone with BPD can overcome it but a BPD person suggests that that is all there is to that person. Moreover, the DSM-IV, despite being revised, has many many flaws and resembles a folk taxonomy more than a scientific taxonomy, which possess exclusive labels (as in an oak tree cannot also be a maple tree, but a person with BPD can also have depression, or bulimia, etc.) and this is a major problem because folk taxonomies are highly influenced by culture and prejudice.



I also do not know why you think therapy does not lead to recovery. There is a specific therapy called DBT, which has very high success rates among the community of people with BPD. (Interesting fact, Marsha Linehan who created DBT also struggled with BPD, became an expert in the field, and only recently ‘outed’ herself.) BPD is a very misunderstood diagnosis and it has been suggested numerously that the name be change to something more fitting, and that the diagnosis be broken down into different categories. Some suggest Emotion Regulation Disorder, or Complex PTSD. But not everyone with the diagnosis BPD has PTSD. So I see what you say in that it can be a blanket diagnosis. Yet ERD, relates to the biological functioning of the limbic system and the inability (in the brain of a person with BPD) to regulate specific hormones including serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. I believe cortisol is also in that list. I was only speaking from my experience when I said your post was invalidating because for me, me personally, this diagnosis has hit the nail on the head. So perhaps some people have been misdiagnosed with BPD. But I argue to please not dismiss this incredibly painful disorder entirely, because that dismisses the people who truly do have it! Moreover, it has been suggested that the Axis-II placement of BPD is incorrect and that it is better suited to Axis-I, which contains clinical diagnoses because a clinical diagnoses is manageable and more transient whereas an Axis-II diagnoses is more permanent and inflexible.



Also the discrimination involved in psychology can effect the treatment of the disorder. Many incompetent psychologists will refuse to treat people with BPD because they are so poorly educated about it, and often think the worst of those diagnosed as having this disorder. Moreover, people with BPD often intimidate people because they also possess a number of other traits such as intelligence, charm, and beauty, as well as vicious anger. (This is speaking from personal experience as well as the experiences of trained mental health professionals) Also, self-shaming is a very detrimental aspect of being labeled with a disorder. This is why it is important to stress possession of a disorder.



Furthermore, the history of psychology is relatively short. It is not as if people with these problems never existed before, it is simply that there is more understanding of these problems’ causation and the biological brain chemistry that can create a borderline personality disorder in a person. And with more understanding comes the inevitable surge of mislabeling. I know that seems counter-intuitive but it is human nature. Imagine this: someone struggling very badly in their lives, with multiple suicide attempts, and suicide ideation comes to you for help. They do not have a clear diagnosis, and you know that according to an influx of new research BPD can be a diagnosis that is hard to pinpoint. In an effort to indentify their problem, and thus help them, you think ‘well perhaps they have had such a difficult time finding a solution because they have this disorder that was misunderstood in the past.’ Perhaps then you assume that you know more about this disorder now, and attempt to see if the person fits the criterion. In turn, you may force certain traits into the criterion mistakenly. In stressing the need for a diagnosis you may incorrectly assign one to person. Does this make sense?



And yes, people can relate to certain traits defined in personality disorders. However, you must meet a certain amount of the criterion to be given the diagnoses.



Oh and ASPD, clinically speaking, is not synonymous with sociopath. Sociopath and psychopath are cultural terms. ASPD is the scientific term (or pseudo-scientific term), perhaps people who use inaccurate terms such as sociopath or psychopath intend to use the term ASPD but no, they are not the same.



Lastly, I am not uninformed. I do not pontificate on topics in which I am not educated. I listen. But I know much about this topic, and have studied it for years independently, clinically, and academically.