Why Am I Feeling Betrayed?

By the way, it would be easier if we used the `mail` facility on EP; it would save having to search through posts made on stories.

Thats an interesting argument, and not without some academic merit, however, following it to its conclusion invites the danger of condoning such behaviour, and loses sight of the victim...I`m as interested in the rights of the victim as much as the perpetrator. The extraneous reasons that you mention do not diminish the severity of the crime, nor do they lessen the effect on the victim. There are a lot of mentally ill prisoners in the prison system, there are also a lot of simply bad people who act without regard for any human values or consequences other than those experienced by themselves; I`m sure they would welcome any excuse for their behaviour, but that would only serve to justify future actions.



You might enjoy reading a book entitled `Without Conscience`, written by a criminologist (at least I think that`s what he is) called Hare; I`ve forgotten his first name. It deals with the study of psycopathic behaviour, and its quite a good read. In a way it fits with your proposal that there always extraneous reasons for crime; I have to say that I don`t necessarily agree with you but I respect your argument.



I`ll look up the book that you mention.



You may also want to consider the causes of `Corporate Crime`; they are no so easily understood. For instance, the famous `Guinness Affair` of the 90`s, or thereabouts, or indeed the very recent `Barclays Scandal`...what of the perpetrators in those examples? Or, the various examples of companies breaking polution laws or disregarding the safety of their employees; the causes of crime, as I`m sure you will appreciate, are as diverse as the types of crimes committed.



Anyway, we have both given each other things to think about, so maybe best to draw a line under our arguments for today at least!



Do have a look at the Radislav Krstic trial at the International War Crimes Commission; have a look at how the `bench` was comprised, and how the charges were carefully worded to ensure that he would not walk away...he was the first really important military Serb to `go in the bag`, in fact he was the only one available at the time! The eventual trial of Ratko Mladic, the supreme commander, could change the Krstic conviction altogether.



Well, off to look for something for my tea; my wife is out with her friends tonight for a Chinese...maybe I`ll just opt for a takeaway.



Bye for now,



Ginger x

hi ginger i do believe it is misfortune when someone is so compelled to want to take another persons life it is an irrevocable act as death is permanent. please try and obtain a copy of the book "For their own good" Alice Miller , which goes some way to explaining my argument about it is a misfortune that another person commits murder or rape against another the book details incidents about the roots of violence in childhood and mentions Adolf Hitler . it does give some understanding as to why people do commit violent acts such as murder, and whilst i do not always sympathise with a murderer , as i said there are always extraneous reasons why someone would murder , and that these factors should be taken into account and also , preventative therapy should be more widely funded before people condemn themselves to a life of assassination and indeed "character assassination" too :-)

Sorry, that should read `did not go on the run`.

Out of interest, I have studied a few cases that interested me, including the conviction at The Hague of a Serbian General accused of a long list of offences during the Balkan war of 1993-95. All the information from the trial, and subsequent appeal hearing is available on line; just Google `Radislav Krstic`, read the news reports of the day and then take a look at the trial/appeal documents. I`d be interested to hear your opinion. I can also fill you in on some of the background that is not well detailed, or understood by the court. This man did go on the run as did his superior; he continued to work for the `new army` quite openly until his arrest in 1998 (or thereabouts). Check it out, you will find it interesting. The man in question currently resides in Wakefield Prison by the way.



Ginger x

Hi Babs,

Championing the rights of the individual, from whatever background, is a noble and worthy cause. No doubt during your studies you will be faced with the absolute and incontrovertible evidence of guilt in some case studies; possibly a vile offence with a shattered victim who may have been lucky to survive the incident...it will be your job to defend, and you must do it to the best of your ability, but you would feel for the victim too...yet it would not be their rights that be the issue for you. The law must prove guilt or innocence and in order to do so it must be practiced absolutely fairly; however, there have been plenty of instances of underhand tactics from the prosecution i.e. witholding evidence from the defence or providing very detailed an complex evidence only a day or so before the trial. My barrister acquaintance seems only to be interested in the pursuit of wealth; I can see that is something you abhor, however, it does seem to permeate the law profession to some degree. A lot of very good work is done, often for little cost, in the area of advocacy; I remember being told that there was a particular need for child advocacy a few years ago. I admire your crusading attitude and I`m not being condescending when I say that; justice often comes at a price, a price not everyone can afford. I think it is no misfortune that someone may have committed rape or murder; I do see how the borders can be indistinct, but there is a great deal of difference between serial killers/serial rapists and those who have acted without intent...one thing that remains unchanged is that there is still a victim at the end of the day.

I can see that you will enjoy your studies, and I believe that you will do well in your career...I think that you are the sort of person who will become well known in the profession if you hold to your principles.

Once again, I enjoyed reading your post, and my observations are likely to provoke greater discussion I`m sure!



I`m guessing that you have had some negative experiences of how law can be practiced?



Bye for now,



Ginger x

hi ginger in most respects law serves to prove criminal wrongs amongst private and public clients, i see no other context that it can be used in, even in human rights cases it is still crime against the person, however in the area of family law, divorce , property etc it is still about a persons rights and whether and what they may be entitled to. i personally would not enter the law profession to make myself rich by another persons misfortune, whether that be they have committed murder , rape, or treason , or kidnapped a child and absconded to another country. There are i find always extraneous reasons for an individual to commit such atrocities and as a lawyer that would be "my" job to prove so so as to make a sentence less lenient. its a small percentage in this world who can actually afford extortionate legal fees anyway, and in my experience squadron leader money and its advantages always undeniably affects the outcome of a case whether it be a juvenile delinquent whose rich barrister father has paid to relinquish his child of their crime , or a father who left his wife and children who paid twenty grand to a "promising" solicitor only to lose everything including property of high value, the amount of money revered to a case does not always guarantee a positive outcome. i am not stating i would work for free(well perhaps very little in the early days) but a comfortable salary would be enough, and i would not as some legal "people" command expect 300 pounds for an hour of my time! :-)) x

Oh, something else that just occurred to me. If you don`t get full fee exemption from the O.U, go into your library and ask for the register of charitable trusts; quite a number are prepared to fund or part fund people in educational pursuits; again, I know people who have done that. Quite a few are based in the North East and the application process is usually quite straight forward. Let me know if you need any help with sorting through them.



Ginger x

Sorry, I acidentally cut my last post short...seemed to end rather abruptly. Well, I hope you get started in October as planned; you will be keen to get your first TMA off to your tutor...and returned again to read the feedback! I`m sure you have the determination to do well. Please let me know how you get on.



Well, I`ve been scouring the weather map for some sunshine...none around at all, so it may be a good idea for me to get my filler and paint out; there are jobs I`ve been putting off so now looks like as good a time as any.



I do enjoy corresponding with you by the way, you are an interesting person.



Bye for now,



Ginger x

mmmm interesting what you say about "cognitive distortions" i meant to say about my "ex" and other people that they may admit to their wrongs but never fully accept or have enough introspection to really feel it, they think just because they admitted it ,its enough, but in my books well its never enough just to admit you were wrong , its the actions you take after to correct things that matter and the most impact on someone forgiving you. you can call me babs which obviously is short for Barbara!

yes a full honours degree is 360 credits through open university, i am hoping to get fee exemption and start my studies in October, i am actually rather excited about it all, law of torts and that sort of stuff intrigues me. i have some friends in nottingham and they are a family of four sisters and one brother , four of them are qualified solicitors and i remember in the nineties learning a lot about law from them when they were following their degrees, i hope i can succeed as well as they.



my skirting boards are royal blue in my boudoir , its starting to look fab in fact i am considering a walk -in part on grand designs i think i am that good! x :-)

If I remember rightly, you will need 360 points for an Honours degree; that took me 6 years but it was worth it. Good luck with it.

thankyou ginger! i have already applied for the LLB(honours degree) through open university so thats some resolve and progress already, i find the more i get immersed in my own subjects the less i need to think about him!your story about your wife does not alarm me , i just think you are very noble to even admit what you did on here , because you expose yourself to criticism and it takes a real brave man to accept any form of critique without a negative reaction , some men my "ex" amongst many would never admit their wrongs in life they would just say things along the lines of "you compelled me to do it" will write more later , been having tiring day glossing skirting boards in my humble abode :-) great eclectic colour tho! x

His track record was not good; you took a risk there and worked hard on his behalf; it has`nt paid off therefore he is not worth wasting further time on. Don`t be there when he comes back in six months, as you know he will. If you close your heart to everyone else, then you risk weakening your resolve. All power to you but don`t shut yourself away.

This may sound a bit rich coming from me (you`ve red my story), but I am something of an expert in this field all the same.