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I Have Lost My Faith In God Years Ago

I didnt lose my faith because he let me down... I lost my faith because I realized that I didnt really believe... I worshiped someone I didnt know.. I worshiped him so he wouldnt send me to hell and I gurantee thats why alot of people do worship him.. You cant be forced to love someone.. you can always pretend to.. To me its its the same thing as someone holding a gun to your head and saying worship me or Ill kill you.. but in this case burning in hell is worse than death itself... If you truely love someone you wouldnt burn them for eternity... Would you kill your mom if she didnt love you? or maybe didnt believe in you? If you love someone even if they dont love you back, you want what is best for them... even if your not happy You want them to be happy no matter what... Try exploring religion, Dont be afraid of being an outcast and disregarding how you feel because your afraid of how the world will think,  I am one of the most outcasted religions, I am an eclectic Pagan.  To modern society I am evil and worship the devil,  But its nothing like that,  I dont worship anyone, Instead I am a friend of The earth and my creators,  I respect them and they respect me.  Although I may be an outcast.. I have never been happier and more enlightened...  People dont realise what christianity is doing to the world... Not god or jesus... but that book written by man... That book causes hate and discrimination... I know gay friends who have killed themself because their parents disown them because of the bible... I dont hate christians even though they put me down for my beliefs... Ive had people ask me.. how can you be a pagan/wiccan and be such a nice person? dont look at the religion... look at them and what you see for yourself... I AM NOT EVIL! Listen to your gut feeling.. Not a book.. how do you feel about god?


Update:

I have to say.. it was one of the best moments of my life.. I felt free.. I no longer felt like a product of god.. working to be what he wants me to be.. and not being happy with what I was leading to be.. Instead of being what Made me happy.. I believe My parents were right when they tell me to follow myself and not follow others.. I believe that should be included with god aswell.. Why would I want to be a poser?  It was like my shock collar for fear is released.. I cant spend my life being worried about what happens after I die.. If I burn for eternity.. If god Is really real.. Then I'm screwed.. But At least I lived being who I want to be.. If god cant accept me to be who I am.. then that word love.. that he claims over me.. Is just a word..

Another Update: 

This is my proof of the fraudulent, and manipulation of the bible, Don’t get me wrong.. I am not against God, Or Jesus. But, I do believe that these stories were manipulated for the purpose of control, which has succeeded greatly, First of all History back’s me up, for my evidence in my cause.. People will see what I write as an attack.. But I see my report as truth, Enlightenment to the lie’s spreaded around the world, I am not attacking you, I only wish to help, First of all, I am an eclectic wiccan, A form of paganism, Eclectic mean’s that I am open to learn as I will.. I do not follow one’s path.. I follow my own, in what I feel is truth. Pagan’s/Wiccan’s have been attacked and prosecuted by Christian’s/Catholic’s for many years. Yet, Little do they know, that their whole religion is a plagiarized version of the pagan religion itself, Many don’t see this.. The holiday’s, Like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, thanksgiving. They were pagan religion’s long before Christianity was in the thought’s of men.. Samhain, Is today’s Halloween, The pagan’s Yule holiday, is Christianity’s Christmas, Which both coincidentally is the same day.. As is Samhain.. Notice the word Yule used.. A very common pagan word, used for Christmas.. It is The Holiday is a celebration for Rebirth and Life.. The Holiday Imbolic, Is today’s groundhog day.. Still.. 
The Pagan Holiday Eostara is Christian’s easter.. The holiday is a celebration of rebirth.. Which is a coincidence considering it is considered the day that Jesus Rose again.. Our Religion Mabon.. Is Christian’s thanks’ giving.. Which is also a day for giving thanks’.. 

Now off to another point.. Christian symbol’s.. Christian Symbol’s you see today are also Pagan Symbol’s.. Like the Cross that Jesus died on.. The cross is considered to a pagan, as the Cross of the Zodiac, The circle around the center point of the cross represents the sun.. Which is where the idea, of the son of god. The Fish.. The fish that Jesus drew on the ground, Is also the same symbol used to represent Pagan astrology’s symbol of the ages.. Which in this case, is the age of Pisces, Which we are still in today. 

Now, This is where the real proof come’s in. The story of Jesus, Believe it or not, The story of Jesus has been told Thousand’s of year’s before Christian’s Jesus was born, The list of how many people share the same story and same trait’s is seemingly endless.. Which make’s me believe, that there was a man somewhere that has done the same thing has him.. One example of many.. Horus was also born of the virgin Isis , He is the Only Begotten son of Osiris, His Foster father was Seb, Also meaning Jo-seph, 
Him and Jesus are of Royal Descent, Both born in a cave, An Angel came to both, and Warned Isis of her virgin birth, 3 king’s came to Jesus following a star to the east, 3 solar deities, Followed a star to the east, to find Horus, Mother Isis was told at the birth of Horus "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.". As Joseph, Father of Jesus was told "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.". Both were teacher’s at the age of 12, They were both Baptized at the age of 30, Horus Baptized by Anup, as Jesus baptized by John the Baptist, Both Anup, and John were Beheaded. Horus and Jesus both performed many miracles, such as Raising the dead, Water to wine, Walking on water, and many more.. Later He was Betrayed by A close friend and Disciple, To then be crucified and then cast into a tomb.. Both resurrected 3 day’s later, to then later descend into the heaven’s.. Keep in mind, This is only one story that is similar to the story of Jesus.. And also.. Much Much older.. There are so many, it would take entirely too long to go through it all, Although, if you wish to research yourself.. I will list a few name’s… Odin of the Norse, Mithra, Krishna, Gautama a.k.a.Buddha, Attis , Zoroaster, Dionysus, Quetzaloatl, Tammuz, Alestis, Esus, Bel, Bali, Orpheus, Iao and Wittoba.. Keep in mind. .There are many many more.. 

Now off to God, In the bible, There are mention’s of other God’s which Christianity say’s they are fake, But if you actually listen without a stubborn mind.. it speak’s of other’s.. as if they are real..

“Now I know that the Lord is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.” Exodus 18:11

"You shall have no other gods before me."

Exodus 20:3

"Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips."

Exodus 23:13

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him?"

Deuteronomy 4:7

"Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you;"

Deuteronomy 6:14

"for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you."

Deuteronomy 7:4



"If you ever forget the Lord your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed."

Deuteronomy 8:19

"Be careful, or you will be enticed to turn away and worship other gods and bow down to them."

Deuteronomy 11:16

"the curse if you disobey the commands of the Lord your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known." Deuteronomy 11:28

Anyway.. You get the point.. This list can go on a long time..

Off to God and Zues.. The similarities, Both were very vengeful god’s Loving.. and Destructive and angry..
Both at one point were very angry, Angered at man for their sin’s , Gave up on man.. And chose a select few to build an Ark, Collect animal’s.. and then… Flooded the earth. As for a different story, but yet the same.. God Sent Noah to build his ark, and Gilgamesh sent Untapishtim, Both Flood’s were global, both were for the punishment of man’s sin’s, Both were Sent by God/God’s, both build a boat, and both complained, both had at least one window, both held animals, It rained heavily for both of them..
They both released bird’s to find land. 

On to Corruption, Control.. And Lie's.. Used for control nation's.. Also used as conversion..
Do you remember Constantine of Rome? He was once a Pagan, Turned to a Christian..
He pulled a stunt very clever.. A tactic of Conversion.. Considering that Constantine had turned to Christian, He knew that most of his follower's were Pagan, To help his follower's and other's become christian, He made up christian holiday's on the same date's as Pagan Holiday's, Which would eventually turn everyone into a Christian. Also Back then.. A pope declared Pagan's as servant's to the devil.. Because of his Status and power, Claiming that God claimed so.. It would be easy for him kill and convert.. He killed Innocent people because of their religion, And still today, it Is still taught in church.. They claim everything about Us is evil.. We serve the devil.. And practice black magic.. Yet.. Many do not know a single thing of my religion, but that it is the devil.. The pentagram, Or Pentacle, Is a sacred symbol of a pagan, It stand's for many thing's.. Nothing to do with evil, not one bit.. The star is a representation of the element's, and also a portrayal of the human body.. The circle is a representation of the shape of the earth, and also a wall of protection around the human body.., It is a holy symbol used by pagan's as protection from evil.. Some ask.. Why does it look like the satanist pentagram? Well.. That is because they stole it from us Wiccan's.. They stole our symbol and stuck it upside down.. Their's represent's a bull with horn's.. 
We have nothing to do with them and their practice's.. Anyway's on with what I was saying,
The bible is a great weapon, A scare tactic to control, An example is Jonestown.. The man who used this scare tactic to lead so many into a trap.. Then eventually led to a mass suicide.. Thousand's of year's war's fought to claim that their God is the true God, Between Muslim, The Hare Krishna's, Christian's and Catholic's.. Still to this day.. this war is still going.. So much bloodshed, over who's book is right.. It's nonsense.. And after thousand's of year's nothing is changing.. Ever thought that nobody will give up? That you are fighting a war that cant be won? Maybe thought... Wow.. Think of all the live's... For nothing.. They use this tactic to get you to fight war's, for a cause they make up.. For example.. The Taliban, So many go on suicide missions in believe of great reward to do so.. And yet, What is this battle really for? To kill all Infidel's? Why Should I kill all Infidel's? Well.. Because god will give you lot's of women.. You see my point? The man who wrote this is now your master.. You are his slave, and you dont know it.. The book's of the bible.. There are so many book's of the bible, and yet so many did not make it.. They were burned by pope's, to Simply make Jesus and God look more pure... They were Edited, to gain control over Man.. Think about it.. What make's a book found by the pope.. and chosen by the pope, to be any more correct than any other book's found in Ancient time's.. So.. The pope say's they are fake.. and You dont take any consideration that maybe.. This is real? The book's back then were in consideration at one point.. For example... The Dead Sea Scroll's.. Older than the actual bible, These were carried by Men who were fleeing from people trying to kill them off.. These were the book's the Islam's considered the Bible back in those time's.. But Christian's today see them as blasphemy.. As a Lie... Ever wonder why they are so Defensive to this? Because it break's off their control.. Anyone who believe's these thing's are free from their hand's.. They dont like that..
Another Scare tactic I will address.. Hell.. That word is so powerful, Probably the most powerful word in the world.. It is easy to convert someone who is afraid of eternal burning and torture, But then the Bible Addresses free will.. But really how much free will is in, Burn in hell, Or Live in paradise in the heaven's.. Only a fool would choose hell.. So... if you want to go to heaven, Believe in god, Accept Jesus into your heart, Serve his wishes, Become like him, and you will go to heaven.. Not a bad deal, Not a bad deal at all.. Cant see much wrong with that. That is a statement most cant turn down. Then, That give's your pastor power.. Dont get me wrong, I am NOT saying that all Christian's are evil.. Majority of Christian's are the nicest people on earth, Also some of the meanest! I know many great Pastor's with a great and pure cause.. These people do great thing's for the world.. Then you Have the guy who know's what kind of control he can get.. Money, Church Offering's.. Offer your money to god, then you see your pastor with some fancy Jewelry, Some fancy clothe's, and He is telling you, this money is going to Africa, and show's a picture of a white man and some Happy African's... I am a Man that believe's believe's that the greatest of all evil, Will present itself holy and pure.. And That Evil will bring the greatest of people with it, and use their good heart for it's will..

I do not believe in the word perfect, Because it is impossible, no god, man, or being can be perfect..
A good example is God himself, and all of us.. Even the best of us.. He does thing's that are strangely... Human... Murder, Lie's Desciet.. But he also has his loving side.. As all of us do.. We are all capable of Evil.. and Good... We are not to be judged on our past, but what we are now.. and the future of ourselves to come.. Though, I know most will see what I write, and Claim me evil, They will acuse me of assault, Lie's, Desceit.. But know, This is some information I have kept to myself for so long, because I was afraid of what those would say of me.. Thing's that may happen.. But the truth is.. This may be a School assignment, But this is also for the world, I could keep this to myself and let those be blind and controlled, But that would be selfish, This is something I give as a Gift, To help free you, Not hurt you, Those who have read this with an open mind, can not deny what I am saying, But those with a closed mind, likely stopped reading this a while back, Or are thinking of way's to prove me wrong.. and By all means! Do So! I seek the truth! Again, this does not prove god, or Jesus fake, But show's that the bible is fake, Their Story is real, why else would their be so many different versions? Somewhere in all these story's and myth's has to have truth somewhere.. 

ShallowDreamers ShallowDreamers 22-25, M 43 Responses Dec 3, 2008

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You can't loose your faith in god, it's always inside you and when you need it most it reappears and when you don't it hides.

God was never there in the first place.. He is merely an idea planted in your head most likely from your parents... You were programmed from birth.

God never lets anyone down. You just have to keep faith and pray to him.

I am sorry, I have to disagree..

God has let me down countless times.

We often let ourselves down. But God will never do such a thing. He wants you to seek him and seek answers about him. If you continue to seek answers, you will eventually find them. Keep the faith. It is often humans and their unrealistic expectations that lets them down. It also because humans are not perfect. God is never to blame. :) He loves you. He doesn't help us when we want him to, he helps us when HE knows the time is right.

I've let myself down plenty of times, as has God.. When I was to find out about the mass murders he had committed, I was extremely let down to find out he is not as forgiving as he is made out to be.. Leviticus was a let down, Sodom and Gomorrah, The flood.. His constant contradictions, hypocrisy, selfishness.. I can go on forever here.. I have sought answers for years, and they have been given to me.. God is an illusion that comes from desperation and comfort. There is nothing more comforting than losing someone and going to meet them.. But sadly, it is false, and has been proven false.. The bible has lied to billions upon billions over the ages, and have the proof to show that the bible is Constantines tool for power.. You will never understand because you don't want to believe that God is not real.. It's a sad truth, that you will live your life and devote it to an imaginary being..

When you learn the truth about God, you will come to realize that God will never let you down. *hugs* Keep searching for the answers. The bible is meant to teach us what to do and not to do so that we can better our lives. But understanding the bible is not a one time thing. It takes a lifetime and more. I'm sorry you feel that because of your experiences God isn't real. But he loves you so much, and wants you to learn more about him. You must also come to understand the difference between true and false religion. Any religion that says people are going to hell is not a true religion. NO person should be telling people they are going to hell. It is not their place. Keep studying with a SINCERE heart, keep seeking the truth about Him, and you will find the answers :)

Why would I trust a book that is proven false? Copied? Plagiarized? Spreads Hate, Separation? Corruption? There is no reason to put faith in something that is OBVIOUSLY a lie.. Thats like George Bush coming out and saying that hes the one who bombed the twin towers, but everyone says no! It was Bin Laden! Despite Bushes Confession.. It's like a detective ignoring evidence because he doesnt want to believe the killer is his brother.. God is not real, Point blank... No questions asked, And I'm sorry you have been cursed by the brainwashing technique that christians call faith.. You have been fooled, and it is never too late to be real with yourself.. If you ACTUALLY read ANYTHING I wrote, (Which I don't believe you did) You would be lying to yourself to say the bible is true.. The evidence is there, and you are choosing not to see it..

Many people have learned about the bible and God through false truths, but God knows that those who continue to study with an honest heart will find the answers they seek :) God truly loves all his children.

Funny, I learned from the bible... Is that a false truth? I can prove the bible wrong by only using the bible.. In this situation, the ONLY thing false is the bible.. Look above, the answers are all there.. Obviously you haven't read a thing,

Why are you so bent on proving the bible wrong hun? I did read it. The bible also says that many people would try to spread false knowledge about the bible. Keep on studying, and you'll find the truth. God really does love you and is very merciful. He will never leave you no matter what. No human can be as reliable as Him.

How would the bible spread false knowledge about itself? I am not bent on proving it wrong, because it has been done, long before me.. Tell me.. According to the bible, the earth was made before the sun, yet it is fact that the sun is much older than earth... According to the bible, Man was here before animals.. Yet, we all know how true that is... The bible says people would try to spread false knowledge, to keep people like you ignorant to the truth.. Why would you force yourself to believe when there is PROOF that it is a lie?.. I mean come on, everything is above, and you prefer to be a Bible drone.. Everything about that book is Pagan.. ALL of the christian holidays are pagan holidays,.. Jesus is a rip off of pagan Gods, plagarism at its finest.. ANother thing is, The letter J didnt even exist back then.. Noahs ark is plagarism, the story of jesus, moses, joseph, Mary, Abraham, Even the story of Adam and eve is Pagan.. Norse in origin.. Then some guy named constantine (who worships Mithras, who also shares the same story as jesus.. ) A guy named constantine Corrupted the original Gnostic text, then changed Mithras name to Jesus to Convert Pagans to Christian by using pagan holidays.. By doing this, he chose which gnostic texts to add to the bible, and destroyed what he didnt like.. He used these text to gain control over an empire.. Which obviously he still does today.. Every christian, Including you are victims of your pastors, priests, and religious leaders.. You are under the spell of Emperor Constantine himself, and from the looks, you will blind the world as a tool of Constantine... There is no information above that is fake, and if you would take the time to enlighten yourself and read what is above and even research it.. There is nothing you can say to prove anything I have said wrong.. Not ONE christian come close to being able to bunk what I have wrote.. I've argued with many pastors, and priest, and put them all to shame.. I made them look so wrong, that every time I was cursed, and mocked, because he had been humiliated... Believe all you want, You are not talking to God, you are talking to yourself.. You are praying to yourself.. I am so confident in what I say, that I'd bet my life, soul and entire life savings on it.. In the end, you are a victim of a 2000 year old scam.. If you would be true to yourself, you could see that you do and say the things you do, because of pressure.. You have no real reason to believe in God.. You have just made a choice to believe so you have comfort at the death of loved ones... In the end, you will be exactly where everyone else goes when they die.. The dirt..

Well, you may believe what you want :) But when you keep studying, you'll see the truth. In my religion, we don't have pastors, priests, or leaders, so I'm sorry, I can't relate a whole lot to what you are saying. But I do realize some other Christians spread false truths. I hope you can let go some of your anger and hostility towards God and the bible one day. But no matter what, you will always be loved by God if no one else does.

You're really getting nowhere.. You're avoiding all points made, You have no good responses.. You used the bible as a way to turn your life around.. Good for you, you turned your life around, and when you do.. GOod things happen.. But, God Did nothing.. YOU did it.. There are things called natural consequence that CHRISTIANS call the work of God.. You are no different from my case when I was a christian.. And for me to listen to christians, would mean that I trust their word.. No, I dont.. It is a religion built on lies, and resulted in war, hate and pain.. I don't ask christians for knowledge, because I already know the bible, I have studied it myself, went to a christian school, blah blah blah.. I know what it is.. And you still have nothing on the lies in the bible, the contradictions.. You would have to prove that everything I know about the bible isnt actually in the bible.. THere is no way, I know too much about the bible.. Likely, I know more than you, your leaders and any pastors you know.. A pastor who knows the bible is no longer a pastor.. You have fooled yourself, and I'm sorry.. But, there is that term.. Ignorance is a Bliss..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

Watch all three of these videos, if you can... This, is the truth.. A video backed with fact.. If you have the balls to watch this, and not watch it blindly, it will change your life.. In the end, it is your choice what you WANT to believe.. But, if you are TRULY looking for truth, this is the truth... But, I do not believe you want to hear the truth.. So, I think my efforts of posting this video is a waste.. I am a man of truth, and want nothing but the truth.. I have no bias toward an idea until I find out its false.. I hate to see people living a lie, following false Gods as a way to forgive oneself.. You are lost, and I truly hope you find the truth.

Sorry hun, I already know the truth. And I didn't come here to argue with you. I see how set you are in the your way of thinking about his, and it makes no sense for me to debate with you forever and ever. I see that a lot of people here have given you the answers to your religious questions, but you still refute them. That saddens me, but I'm sure you'll find your way some day :) And like I said before, in my religion, we don't have leaders or pastors. You are trying to tell me about something in my religion that I don't even have dear. :)

Nobody here has given me answers, Nothing logical.. At all.. I hear the same thing.. Put your faith in God, and you'll find out.. They are liars.. If you are talking to God, you really need to go to a psych ward.. If SOMEBODY has given me any good answers, why don't you quote them for me? I'd love to see it.. Even though it's not there.. It also amazes me that ALL of you have one thing in common.. Avoiding strong points against you.. Countless times... If your religion does not have a pastor, or any spiritual leaders, then you are not a christian, and it does not apply to you.. I will say, Religion is the act of following anothers belief.. Where spiritualist follow their own path.. And you do not know the truth, You believe the truth you wish, rather than facing the hard facts... And you have made that obvious, in your avoidance..

Picking fights with me is not going to draw you any Closer to God :) I don't like endlessly debating with people. There's no point. You aren't going to believe unless you experience it yourself and no one can give you that experience except you hunny <3

I apologize If I come off as If I'm picking a fight, It was not my intention.. I realize how hard it is to NOT be disrespectful, and I could have chose my words better.. But, through my perspective, it's just so frustrating, because I know what you are talking about.. I've experienced many things in my life, spiritual and not.. I feel it is hard explain why I feel the way I feel, and why I feel what I feel.. I have spent my whole life looking for God, Trying to prove he is real, trying to prove he is not.. I encounter the same issues brought up over and over... I myself am angry at what religion has brought to this world...

Yeah, I can tell it's hard for you not to be disrespectful, and I simply cannot put myself in a situation with someone like that. I have also experienced many things in my life. I wasn't born into Christianity or anything like that. I chose it of my own free will. My life is better because it has God in it. And no one can ever take that away from me. I really do hope you find your way. You still have a lot of life to live, don't give up on God so easily. He has never given up on you.

When talking about religion, it is very hard to not be disrespectful.. After all, we are calling each other liars, and shutting down what we believe.. There is no soft way to put it, so I'm not going to hold back.. People need to be ready to hear what they don't want to hear, and learn from it.. Though, that is a rare quality in this world.. Many are comforted by the lies they feed to themselves..

Well, so far I haven't called you any names nor have I put down what you believe. You may want to start being more accepting of others beliefs dear :)

I've continued learning about God and now I can tell you that if we don't truly accept God into our hearts and let him come into our lives then God can't be a part of your life. We have free will, so unless we seek God and ask him to come into our lives and become a part of our lives, then he is unable to come into our lives and make changes. If he came into our lives without is wanting him to or truly accepting him then he would be FORCING himself on us, and that's not what he's about. You can't only come to God when things are going wrong. You have to be searching for God and trying to get closer to him at ALL times, during the good AND the bad. Why would God repeatedly help people that repeatedly curse his name, forget about him, and reject him as soon as things get better-or vice versa- repeatedly curse his name, forget about him, and reject him as soon as life starts getting difficult? Just praying for what you want isn't enough. He won't hear you if all the time you're just asking him for things for you. You have to make an effort to get close to him, let him into your life, accept him completely in your heart, and learnt he truth about him. My life was falling apart. I was going downhill faster than I could wrap my head around. I prayed to God countless times and never got an answer. After YEARS of praying to God, I stopped. I kind of gave up on trying. And then JUST LAST YEAR I decided to really let God come into my life. I've learned so much about him and he is a big part of my life now. Guess what? My life has done a 180 degree turn and EVERYTHING is getting better. My life is no where near perfect, but things are slowly working out for me. Everything that I ever asked for is slowly coming to me little by little. God is good, it's just us that sometimes don't want to fully accept him. It's us that don't really understand how things work. I'm not saying that this is your case, but this is what happens the majority of the time.

So, you have been trying really hard to find god, and finally tricked yourself in to believing, because it feels better to know that you will see your family and friends in an after life paradise? YOU changed your life around, and good things started to happen.. You know.. That happens to ANYONE who turns their life around.. Hang around good people, do good things, good things happen.. Hang around bad people, do bad things... Bad things happen.. It's called natural consequence.. Not God, you are diluting yourself in an illusion to bring yourself comfort.. Considering you even took the time to reply shows me that you truly didnt read anything above.. You say these things, but this is the common case for anyone who Goes to God.. In desperation... And the thing I've noticed about all of them is.. They are Liars...

18 More Responses

Interesting that your faith was based on fear of Hell, many false converts have taken the same step to avoid hell as portrayed by the Roman Catholic Church and generally most Protestant denominations, I also believed once, but the teaching of Hell as a place of Eternal torture and torment to me conflicted with the very Nature of God and Jesus, having had a serious look into the teaching without the bias I had been instructed with, and asking God to open my eyes a new perspective opened, backed up by so many blessings in my life I know my initial training was wrong.

I believe that A LOT of what we're taught in traditional churches is wrong.

Its more than hell, more than the church.. It's all of it in an entirety. Not to mention, I have found flaws in about EVERY part of the bible.. Contradictions, lies, control, evil, and all the horrible things that come with the bible... I would hope that IF God is real, he would persecute the bible, and shut it down.. It is one of our biggest problems in life right now, and will be until destroyed.. It's not JUST hell.. I look at the God himself, and feel he needs to redeem himself for the hell he has put in many lives.. Not to mention, that I do not believe in him at all, if He was, I still would want nothing to do with him.. A long time ago, it got to the point that I felt I believed him, but needed more proof.. Then I started to just look and find myself trying to disprove the HUNDREDS of flaws and lies that I seem to uncover.. After a while I realized that what I was doing was stupid.. People try SO hard to believe in something, that they become Ignorant to the facts against it.. I have not found ONE plausible reason to believe in God.. And EVEN if he were to show up right now, I'd tell him to make up for all the murders he has done, AND for all the wars, persecutions and executions he has caused.. I would feel guilty to serve such a being.

Thanks for taking time to respond.

I agree with you on some parts, and disagree with you on others. I agree that today's church does NOT teach us all that the Bible is trying to tell us, and that most churches today don't focus on truly enlightening us with the truth. Rather, the focus on the little parts that they want us to learn and believe. I don't believe in church or religion, but rather I believe in God. You need to go through the Bible yourself and read things and analyze them and try talking to God with your heart in order to find out the truth. What they teach in church is only smaller parts of the bigger picture. I'm still trying to figure out how to find the truth on my own and how to analyze the Bible. I was never taught how to do that in church so I don't understand the Bible much,but I believe it's possible.

Now, you mentioned Christian holidays being pagan. That being said, Christmas isn't really a Christian holiday. It's a lie. Christ wasn't even born on Christmas, and no where in the Bible does it mention that we have to celebrate Christ's birthday every year. Christ was born I believe sometime in spring. I've also heard he was born in October. Truth is, no one knows when he was really born. Christmas WAS a pagan holiday, and some group of people decided to include Jesus in there along the way. Jesus wasn't in the original holiday. If God had really wanted us to celebrate his son's birth, he would have made the exact time of his birth very clear in the Bible, wouldn't he? I don't believe Thanksgiving is a Christian holiday. I'm pretty sure it's not. And Halloween, or All Hallows Eve, isn't Christian either. In fact, I know A LOT of TRUE Christians that don't celebrate Halloween because they say it's a Devil's holiday. Not sure if the Devil part in the holiday is true, but that's what I've been taught, and it makes sense, but I don't really know. I haven't read the rest of what you wrote, so I can't make any more valid arguments here. If I continue reading I will reply with another post later.

Thanksgiving is a Christian Holiday... It's a Day to give thanks to God.. Also.. Halloween has NOTHING to do with the Devil, it is the Pagan New year, the Samhain (which means the End of Summer) When people say Its the devils day, what it is, is christian ignorance.. I'd recommend reading the rest, as it covers many things that many seem to bring up.

Thank you for clearing that up about Halloween. As I said, I wasn't sure. And you have a point about Thanksgiving, but I stand by everything else I said. I will continue reading the rest.

Don't mistake God with Religion though. Religion is man made. It's been twisted and manipulated to fulfill human's selfish agenda. Religion is not to be trusted. God himself is a completely different thing.

Now that Religion is stomped out, What makes you think God is real?.. I havent seen anything but contradicting evidence and small claims..

It's a personal experience you have to have to get you to believe in it. It's complicated and I really can't explain because I'm just starting to open my eyes to new things. A year ago I was just like you questioning things and doubting a lot, so I completely get where you're coming from. I've just seen things and felt things that make me believe that there has to be something else out there. I've experienced some pretty ****** up things and been to therapy for it and everything. Once I started learning about God and going to church (I don't go all the time but every now and then I do) all of those problems that I had been dealing with for years slowly went away and now I feel at peace. My life isn't perfect but the problems just don't seem to matter anymore. What nothing else could do and what no therapist could help with, actually listening to the words and messages of God has. I know this won't make you believe, and I know I can't explain everything well enough, but my personal experience has made me believe that things aren't just the way we see them around us. There's more. And it's because I've seen and felt things and now there is a HUGE difference in my life. It feels like I was lost before and now I'm slowly starting to find my own way.

I do understand what you mean.. There are many things in life that can not be explained, past your own personal experiences.. I don't believe there is any way I can say this without being somewhat offensive.. I'm sorry if I come off offensive.. Honestly, I once thought like that when I was a christian.. I felt very similar about God.. But then.. There was something I started to Notice, that me and you both have in Common.. There were things out there that made you feel comfortable.. A power beyond you that could be ANYTHING... But you said it was the Christian God.. That's what I said too.. You say your life and personal feeling felt a ton better.. Well, why wouldnt you?.. It's soooo comforting to know that you are going to paradise when you die, to meet with all people you had lost through your life.. The thought of becoming something greater than you were before by simply asking Jesus in to your heart with no strings attached.. Man, that does sound amazing.. I personally think that feeling alone is enough to make someone want to become christian.. Thats how I felt... I wanted so bad to be reunited with friends, and have some sort of comfort when everyone I love is gone.. I notice you seem to know there is something out there, But I seriously doubt you could tell me that whatever is out there is God 100%...

In my life, I've experienced many paranormal things that really gave me a hint there is something else out there.. But honestly, Those things made me feel like God was there.. I felt like it was a sort of Proof.. But I started to notice that everything BUT God was revealing itself.. Nothing ever felt right, God defied not only my Logic, but my Gut feelings.. The only path that ever felt right was Buddhism, as It not only scientifically made sense, but gave me a purpose, made me feel stronger.. In my Buddhist path, Meditation had revealed reality to me, and also human nature.. Life is magical.. That is for sure, But even If I believed in God, I would never be able to follow him, due to his selfish and murderous ways.. Jesus has always been a respected figure of mine.. A good role model.. And if Christians actually followed him accurately, my issue with christians themselves would be better.. But, God has caused more problems than he has solved.. Much more.. So much, that If I could go back in time, I would kill Emperor Constantine and save millions upon millions of lives that have been killed in the name of God.. Lets say God is real, and God is good.. It would make no difference, Because God has never been good news to ANYONE who isnt christian.. I believe most Christians are liars trying to conform the best they can for the sake of reputation.. Others who believe likely have been through extremely hard times, and have been hurt so much, they have been looking for someone who will love them unconditionally.. That's God.. I believe when one needs love so much, they will even try their best to believe.. Because it feels good.. It feels good to be loved, and forgiven, no matter what.

The only response I can come up with is remember that if there is a God then there is also a Devil. God is not responsible for horrible things, the Devil is. The Devil deceives people into losing faith in God by making them live and feel bad things. He wins when he turns people away from God. But I respect your opinion. I'm glad that you've found purpose and strength with Buddhism. Whatever helps you live a better life, right? Maybe you're wrong, or maybe I'm wrong, but we'll both never know the truth until the day we die. Everyone has their reasons for their opinions. I distrust religion. I trust in God. I went to church last night and the pastor talked about religion in general. He said that religion makes people do certain things and live in certain ways that deprive them of all of the good things in this world, making them think that they are being sinful if they enjoy themselves and think of themselves every now and then. He said that things taught by religion make people feel guilty and unworthy. He says all of those LIES told by RELIGION were made up by the Devil to make us unhappy. He said that God wants us to be happy and that we shouldn't follow what religion teaches us, but that we should follow what God teaches us. I have never in my life heard a pastor say those words, and I completely agree. Maybe people look at the religion and not the words of God himself. Now if someone believes that or not is completely up to them. The important thing is that we live a good life and love one another as much as possible.

So it's fine to believe what ever you please on this Earth as long as you live a happy, prosperous life. We'll see if we were right or wrong later on. All I know is that from MY experience I believe. Because it wasn't just the good feelings that made me believe, it was also the awful feelings that made me believe too. I've always been curious about Buddhism though. Although I believe in God I also like looking into other beliefs too to get an idea of other ways to see the world. How does it work?

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I think you found part of the truth, in the way that what you were taught was not truth. since you do believe in G-d why don't you find the real truth?

And the real truth is?
I don't know what the truth is. I simply know that I am amazed that we exist at all. How can even 1 cell exist? If there is no "Where" than asking "where" something came from is moot.
I like Phil Robertson's take on Christianity. He makes a great point about it when he references the fact that we base our calendar on Jesus' death.
We do all recognize that it is the year 2013, correct? 2013 years from something pretty big obviously! What else could it have been if not Christ? Why not Christ? He chooses to believe based on this &amp; I want to as well. I simply can't seem to give in to it. I wish I could :(

I can tell you what I have found and believe as the truth.
with the calendar- all that proves is when your society started counting which consists of people who share your beliefs. the Gregorian calendar is not the only one.

It is a large "society" that have adopted this though, right. The sheer number doesn't lead to believe something huge happened to prompt their change?
When was the last time something as widely (globally) used as a calendar was reset? Remember, I am one that is admittedly struggling to believe. I am just sharing things that make me scratch my head in wonder. The bible itself makes me disbelieve more than anything.

The Bible can't be taken literally. There are a lot of hidden messages in the Bible. With that being said, so many people have changed what the Bible originally said that it's hard to believe every word in every Bible.

just because 5,000 people repeat a lie 5,000 times does not make it true.
what do you mean about resetting a calendar?

I love this comment..

You need to study.. A lot.. Study about what Constantine did.. How he manipulated the bible..

who is Constantine? bible meaning what?

What I mean is: People already had a calendar in place, and had been tracking time forever. All of the sudden it started over 2013 years ago. To have this accepted by everyone is a good indicator that the masses agreed the reason/event that occured was worthy of doing so. Oh, and I think we are talking about a "Hell" of a lot more than 5,000 people perpetuating this "lie".
Again, with that said I still struggle with much of the rest of it.

usernameuphup1: Who are you directing this comment to?

whoever asked it
whoever feels like answering

again- it's what you believe. according to my people, the world starts 5773 almost 4 years ago. we never re-started

Who are your people? I'm curious.

Read above...

be more specific please

Emperor Constantine... And.. The Christian Bible.. Can't be much more specific.. Just research how he manipulated the bible.. And how he pretended to be a christian, when he actually worshiped Mithras...

Who said I believe in God?

I just wondered who you're ppl are

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Reading the bile caused me to disbelieve. For starters, read the book of JOB. Why would GOD have to prove anything to Satan? To allow you most dedicated an loyal servant to endure that torture and loss, simply to prove something to Satan makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Also, there are slaves mentioned in the bible, and they are definitely an underclass that were not treated equally with those of an Upper status. This appears to have been OK. Hmmm.
There are so many things that I struggle with, and I would love to believe.
Question: Would a loving GOD really cast all those that have not accepted Jesus into his/her heart to HELL, to burn for eternity? That sounds extreme, no?
What of those people that just happened to be born in an area where Christianity is not introduced to them? They burn too. It just doesn't add up.
Oh, and yes, I feel the fear that has been ingrained in me since I was a boy (45 now) just writing this down.

find the real truth. by the way, you know jc was jewish? and a completely religious one at that

The fact that he was Jewish has always made it so funny to me how Christians out there could discriminate and torment Jews. The very man that started their religion was part of a religion that those people despise. I've always found that completely hilarious and without any sense.

okay wow where did you learn your bible?
G-d wasn't "proving" anything to the devil
slaves are not even the correct term- they were treated better than their "masters"
G-d and jc are in no way more related than others, hell is not an actual place the way you think of it
the last one, in a certain way I agree with, not that I believe they are going to hell but that as to what they should be doing. I've asked this question but have yet to get a satisfactory answer.

You say God wasn't proving anything to Satan, but yet that was the how Job's trials started. You read and see!
Regarding "slaves", improper terminology on my part, but it most certainly didn't read as tho they were of the same class of people in society as those holding higher social status. The fact that they had "masters" is enough to prove my point there.
Get this: I want to believe in God and have Jesus come into my life. At this time, I'd be lying if I said I was certain of any religions validity.
The bible describes Hell, but by all means enlighten us as to what Hell really is.

I've asked that question about people being born in an area with no knowledge of Jesus or God MANY times. The response that I've almost always been given is that God will judge people based on how much they know about God and Jesus. So if you were born in an area where you heard a lot about Jesus and you learned a lot about him and the Bible, yet you still choose not to accept him, then you will be judged more harshly. If you were born in an area without all of that knowledge and you never, or rarely ever, heard about Jesus then you won't be judged so harshly. If you were a devote Christian who knew the TRUTH (not just attend Church and learn about what they tell you) and you walk away from the Lord, you will be punished more harshly at the end. I also heard that in the end of times God will give those who were Christians or who didn't know a second chance, but honestly I'm not sure how they said it would work. I didn't understand that part. In the end, however, no one really knows how things will happen or how God will judge everyone.

Those things are common myths about God and Jesus. You do NOT just go to hell because you haven't accepted them into your heart yet. Any religion that teaches has no idea what they are talking about. No one has the right to tell anyone they are going to hell or not.

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Don't Dish out an argument you cant win. :)

Simple as that!

you're admitting defeat for me? no thanks

This comment is old, and wasnt for you..

ah okay, it showed up in my new comments.

Have you found any evidence that conclusively proves God can't exist? :)

No, But I have found enough to prove that the God In the BIBLE is not the right God.. However I have found evidence, that there are God's similar to Yashua.. Which In my opinion, all of these Gods are one... So.. They all could be the same.. Maybe?.. There is more against the bible than there is for it.. So, I refuse the bible as a direct source of evidence.. Rather, than look further back.. I think The book of the bible Distorts Yahweh.... Ask me specific questions..

How curious. What specific evidence have you come across that is against what's recorded in the Bible? :)

Besides that the bible contradicts itself, over and over and over.. Example the book of Genesis.. But also, the fact that the bible has ripped off many many many pagan stories in the bible.. Because of Constantine, and his worship for Mithras, He manipulated the bible, which was ALREADY manipulated.. Read the story of Mithras, Horus, Zoroaster, Krishna, Odin, Zeus.. There are hundreds of other Gods.. But its too much to type. Also, read all of the above..

First, can you supply specific examples of contradiction in Genesis? (Take your time and scour atheist sites for hollow allegations for which I have reasonable, logical explanations already prepared :)) Second, you overlook the fact that a great deal of the Bible was already recorded and widely used among the Israelites well before Constantine came to the scene. Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? :)

So you already have that the book of Genesis is a rip off of The Norse Prophecy of the end of the world? Hmm.. I dont read atheist sites, I do research myself, and Already know what Im talking about.. I assume your prepared for The two different stories that Contradict each other.. :)

But here it goes.. You shouldnt be so quick to judge, it also teaches about that in the bible.

Fire away :)

Also... The dead sea scrolls are still Rip offs of Old Pagan stories, Like Noahs Ark, and the Epic of Gilgamesh.. Read it.. As was the story of Joseph, and Even Yashua Himself.. I know all about the dead sea scrolls.. I study all religions and ancient religions.. I know a great deal.. So, besides that the ENTIRE story of Jesus is plagiarism.. Let me just give you a quick small bash on Genesis and its flaws..

[1:3] Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
My answer.. The sun is billions of years older than our earth...

[1:9] And God said, "Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

Dry land was here much much longer before ANY water came into existence..

[1:26] Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

Man never came into existence until much much after the rise and fall of Dinosaurs.. so... This is impossible...

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And then...

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

It is a proven fact that the bloodline of the Avian race (birds)
Are prehistoric and have been in existence much longer than man...
According to the bible.. Man Came first.. This is Genesis chapter 2...
In Genesis Chapter one.. It claims the Birds were made first, as were the animals..

0 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Supposedly, Man AND woman were created at the same time... But in chapter two... It says differently...

"Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array."

This quote claims that EVERYTHING, was created all at once...
But yet, Earth.. Our Solar System is only a child in the face of the universe..

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

On this account.. Man was created first... Hmm..

8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Hmm.. Even though Plants were here LOOONG before man, and even states in chapter one... Chapter 2 insinuates, that plants came after man...

OH! Would you look at this! All of a sudden, Male and Female were created at different times... AFTER he made RIvers, Plant life and Man...

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

"But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man."

This is where the Lilith comes in, Cause Lilith was not suited for Adam, as he could find no suiter.. He Created Eve because Lilith would not submit...

I would go on, However, I have to return to work!

The best part.. Is I NEED NO WEBSITE! So... So much for your judgement.. My Only resource is History and the Bible itself.. However I do have to admit, Atheist have a greater Idea than Christians do...

Here we go!

Genesis 1:3 - When God said on Day One, “Let light come to be,” diffused light evidently penetrated the cloud layers even though the sources of that light could not yet be discerned from the earth’s surface. It seems that this was a gradual process, as is indicated by translator J. W. Watts: “And gradually light came into existence.” (Ge 1:3, A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) God brought about a division between the light and the darkness, calling the light Day and the darkness Night. This indicates that the earth was rotating on its axis as it revolved around the sun, so that its hemispheres, eastern and western, could enjoy periods of light and darkness.—Ge 1:3, 4.

As I stated elsewhere, it helps to use an accurate rendering of the ancient Hebrew texts of the Bible. An accurate reading makes it clear that this verse does not refer to the creation of the sun :)

RE: Genesis 1:9

Of course it was. After all, God didn't create the earth out of water, lol :) If you keep reading it's clear what this passage refers to. Genesis continues, "And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together of the waters he called Seas." (Genesis 1:10) So you see, Genesis here isn't talking about the creation of land but, rather, the revealing of it. As in, perhaps the splitting of land masses which allowed water to flow into them thereby exposing the surrounding land. Pretty simple, right? :)

RE: Genesis 1:26

What proof do you have that directly refutes this historical account?

RE: Genesis 2

A careful reading of this chapter in Genesis in its totality makes it clear that this is not a chronological presentation of God's creative acts as is the case with Genesis 1. As such, any apparent contradiction exists only in the beholder's eye.

RE: Genesis 2:1

If you read this verse it specifically references the earth and the sky, not the entire universe.

RE: Lilith

Where does Genesis reference "Lilith"?

Lilith is in the Gnostic Text, and completely fits in the bible..
The LIGHT is our sun... It was referred to our night and day system, which is based on the rotation of our earth, from the LIGHT of the sun.. That is common sense.. You are trying to argue something that is point obvious, and its not working..

In Genesis, it says that the mounds of LAND were raises to fill the oceans (in that sort of sense)

People ignorant in mind will not see the contradictions, because they refuse to see it..

And your conclusion to Genesis 1:3 would only be valid if the earth was covered in a layer of clouds, Dust or some other substance that blocked out the sun.. Which this cant be argued.. because in order for dust to cover, and asteroid must have hit.. There was no Clouds back when the earth came into being.. Just Lava..
So yes.. it is referring to the sun...

Also hints... "You said if you keep reading" Into the further development of the earth...

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good

Studying this.. it is obvious that water was here, and God let the DRY LAND appear.. Not hard to tell

as for 1:6

Lets say Man was around in the beginning when dinosaurs were into existence..
Where did the Tigris River come from in reference? These two rivers.. Also Not to mention, Our Atmosphere was much different, The carbon levels were much too low for us to survive.. We would have been eaten as Prey, with too much weakness to survive.. The only possible way to survive is if the chemistry in the air, was the same as today.. Which it isnt.. its not possible.. Also, The shape of our land was much different, gravity was much different.. Also...
In the beginning days of life on earth, There was only fish... When Land mammals came, They would have been reptilian, or amphibian... The verse says that they will rule in dominion over animals.. Animals that didn't exist? Birds didn't come for billions of years! Lets say they did... How would a Man rule dominion over a T-rex? Or just ANY beast that lived in those harsh times..

You have made an attempt to prove me wrong with 5 things.. Failed all of them.. Yet.. Even if you were right, What can you say about the other 7?

Lol

The Gnostic texts don't fit at all with the Bible because they directly contradict it on many points, especially in its portrayal of Jesus and Judas, to only mention a few. As such it carries no authority.

“And gradually light came into existence.” (Ge 1:3, A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This is in complete harmony with the idea that light slowly became more and more discernable from the earth's surface, not that the sun was created.

Don't earthquakes raise land masses? What if an oceanic earthquake caused the sea level to drop dramatically such that hidden land masses were now visible? Couldn't this appear as if land was rising out of the water? You're running on empty here bud, sorry :)

How do you – or anyone else for that matter – know to an absolute certainty that the earth didn't have clouds after it was created?

Next, Genesis clearly states that there were only two people on earth in the beginning and that these lived exclusively in Eden. Animals, on the other hand – dinosaurs included – populated all of the earth. Given the way Genesis describes Eden, it appears that Eden may have been surrounded by some natural barrier, such as mountains. This is suggested by the fact that cherubs are stated to have been stationed only at the east of the garden, from which point Adam and Eve made their exit.—Ge 3:24. With all of these facts in mind, it is reasonable to conclude that man co-existed with dinosaurs albeit in separate locations.

More to the point, how do you or anyone else for that matter know to an absolute certainty what the carbon or gravity levels were at any given time in the ancient past?

As far as man's dominion over the animals, it is clear from the reading of Genesis that man co-existed peacefully with all animals. They did not pose any harm to him whatsoever. It is only after man disobeys his Creator that things go awry.

Your not solving anything.. Also, The books of luke, John, and the old testament were ALL once Gnostic text and are just as valid as the next.. Point blank.. Im not going to give you a science lesson, You need to go read up in some science.. You arent going anywhere with any of this.... Is there anyone here who puts up a valid argument on EP? Send me to them!

Says who? Had you ever read the Gnostic Gospels and the Bible you'd clearly see how incompatible and contradictory they really were. So much for intellectual honesty, eh?

P.S. I find it very telling how you didn't dispute my other facts. To be honest you can't honestly dispute them because they are based on cold, hard, indisputable facts, not fanciful musings.

No, You are trying to try and make Facts look fake with nonsense.. And yes, I have read MANY gnostic scripts.. And they are just as Contradictory as the bible itself.. Clearly my point.. I will not argue with you any longer, because your intelligence is below me.. Find someone smart and send them here.. You have made no point.

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I too have been dealing with the issue of God in general with all religions. If God were real, then there wouldn't be any wars and everybody would be loved irregardless of what they believed in or looked like, etc. We live in a world of extreme prejudice brought about of books, scrolls, etc., written/produced by ...you guessed it..man. It's called "Control". To those that are looking for an answer, and I've been looking for one, go look for THOTH and Atlantis. Look for the "Crystal tablets of Thoth" and read them. Thoth went to what is known today as Egypt and left behind the Hall of Records for us to find (under the Sphinx). All of this predates any religion on this planet by several thousand years. My advise to everyone is..just do good things in general for everyone. Don't put a name to it aka religions, etc...that's where human beings went wrong.

interesting

I was always taught the Christianity was born out of the Pagan religion. As the Catholics were losing ground with their followers they changed with holidays to coincide with the Pagan calendar. In essence, Christianity follows Paganism.<br />
<br />
In my point of view, Catholics have always wanted the control they now have, regardless of what they believe. By combining their beliefs with Paganism they managed to get the control they always wanted.

Ah I see Law came about because of God, well that settles it then?<br />
Every organism in the universe has to know the difference between right and wrong to survive effectively-without that natural governance (outside of religion) you either get bullied or eaten, in some cases you get respect and to be the head of your pride, but even in nature to get on you have to do the right thing and they don't study theology as far as I am aware. Yes written legislature did come from the first written books outlining the these rules as if they were our rules and not misappropriated as natural order that governs all things. You have faith becuase you are sure you have all the answers, however you don't know you have all the answers if you did you would not need faith in anything, you would have certainty of knowledge in all things. Not praying never failed me.

Oh and... christian prayer never failed me... new age made up things have, been there, done that, it attracted bad stuff.

You lost your faith or you decided to line up against God?<br />
<br />
I'll prove to you that God exists:<br />
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You have, as expected, knowledge between good and evil, hadn't man such knwoledge laws wouldn't exist because you wouldn't know good from evil, in fact laws would be so as to exploit the situation wich is what evil people do when there aren't laws, exploit the situation. (And how do the rest of people know that it is an evil to complain and request laws?)<br />
<br />
Also you seem to know what the true God is so as to "prove that He doesn't exist" I have to see you lot take on Krishna or Odin...

I dont believe in Krishna or Odin.. Or Jesus Or God.. Every single person, who has told me they could prove it to me, has just made them self look like an idiot.. and I find them deleting their post off my page for the sake of embarrassment..

Let's assume I scientifically prove to you that life can only be created, would you believe?

What you've succeeded in doing is demonstrating that a stark contrast exists between who Christ actually was and what he taught vs. those who claim to follow him. How is that the Bible's fault? That would be like blaming legislators for crimes you commit. That doesn't make sense now, does it? <br />
<br />
Speaking of laws, those contained in the Bible are, in fact, universal truths. Like natural laws - such as gravity - these laws apply to all of mankind. Here are a few examples: <br />
<br />
The Bible condemns adultery. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Some people do not accept this Bible precept as truth, and they practice adultery. Still, even they generally reap bitter consequences, which often include a troubled conscience, divorce, and deep emotional scars for all concerned.<br />
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Drunkenness is also condemned by God. (Proverbs 23:20; Ephesians 5:18) What happens when people practice it? In many cases they lose their job, their health, and their family, who also suffer emotionally. (Proverbs 23:29-35) Such consequences come even to those who do not believe that drunkenness is wrong. Does the truthfulness of these moral laws appear to be relative to the beliefs or perceptions of each individual?<br />
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Then there are the Bible’s positive moral commands—such as the commands to love one’s wife, to respect one’s husband, and to do good to others. (Matthew 7:12; Ephesians 5:33) Observing these commands brings beneficial results. Would you argue that such moral counsel is good for some but not for others?<br />
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Whether the moral laws of the Bible are followed or not brings consequences to people. This fact argues that such laws are not just alternative points of view. Rather, they are truths. Evidence reveals that good consequences are realized when the Bible’s moral laws are followed, but bad ones when they are not.<br />
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So think: If the Bible’s moral laws hold true for all mankind, what about the standards in God’s Word regarding worship? What about its comments on what happens when we die and the hope we have for an everlasting future? It logically follows that these Bible teachings are also truths, provided for all mankind. Their benefits and consequences are not limited to only the people who believe them.

Why does everyone refer to God as 'Him". Does God have a penis?

I feel its rude to call God, IT.. also, the fact that God Is a name for a Higher Male being, just as A Goddess is a Female.. So it would only make sense to call God a He.

Beveling in a lot of things can read to the right path.. even false things.. And his words are nothing against you? and to everybody? haha.. Right.. His Words are the reason why millions and billions sit in their grave.. He says all your retarded children do not belong in his church. You obviously dont know the bible.. His word would have me killed if law was still in effect.. His Law would kill innocent of millions around the world, if someone took over the world and applied those laws.. Death and evil would be the only thing of it.. study the bible christian... After all, its Sad.. That ME! A PAGAN KNOWS MORE ABOUT YOUR DAMN BOOK THAN 90% of christians that I have met...

Believing in God leads me intO a right path, it teach me good deeds.it is also a reason why im afraid doin bad things which is against his will. All his worDs, purely fOr everybody"s own good... then why should i nOt believed in him where all his wOrds and commandments are nothing against me and to everybody..it teach only righteousness,...Nothing will lost if we believed in God...

No more research is required for the holidays.. I am a Pagan/Wiccan and I celebrate these holidays every year.. . as have most pagans thousands of years before christ.. These holidays are our equinox.. to celebrate the coming into spring, fall, winter, summer.. Our Yule representing death, Eoster representing resurrection and rebirth, also our spring equinox.. and Obviously you arent listening to any words said.. You would have to be ignorant to deny this truth.. because it is true.. research yourself if you dare.. and Its not impossible because its true.. stop being in denial.. Catholic rituals are stolen from ancient Egyptians.. this is known fact/history.. Everything about Christianity is plagiarism.. The only people who fail to see this are Christians who think im the devil trying to sway them from god.. when Actuality I could care less if I sway you from god.. My goal is to spread truth.. I am A Historian.. I know what Im talking about.. If it wasnt for blind faith, Christianity would have no power.. Because now days.. we all know.. Religion is pre-scientific knowledge. Please.. Test me.. You cant argue fiction with fact..

I kind of disagree to some statements; especially Horus, which can't be compared to the Birth of Christ. The story of Horus still states that there was still a physical relationship. And the other storiesllink; the holidays part; I may tell that more research is required. I must know why those days were chosen?<br />
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Also, the birth of Christ is coming from Israel, a nation which upto this date completely rely on the old testament, in which it is impossible that the birth of Christ is to be taken from a Pagan's myth.<br />
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I am a christian, I do think sometimes of God as being not existing. But logically also, this is not true as He exists. May be I do not see him, however others see him, live in him, are devoted for him and I can see a special blessings in those people. They do not demand power or authority as people might think. I have seen successful people, actually professors, who left their high salary jobs just to serve God. Heaps others, who were very educated or either rich, just surrnder all "as they saw Him" they had known him. And here, I am talking about true believers not just church goers. If I do not know Him, surely "Surrender all" is meaningless...<br />
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Sometimes, we beleive ba<x>sed on others' experience, yeah? all knowledge at University, school..etc. are ba<x>sed on past experience! There are lots of good things about Christianity. It is me that I can not cope with it....and That is what they call the difficult path....

I love my children. I gave them strict safety rules that they may choose to live by. They were able to do things however they chose. They go off and lose their virginity every night and get themselves high. Hungover every morning. After school, once I pick them up, I find that they have bruises all over their body from picking fights with everyone. Cops come over every night explaining how they broke into a neighbor's home killing the man of the household. They would find that everyone else had something we wouldn't be able to have due to all the times they were banned from a store. So they'd steal. One time, they were possessed and nearly tried to kill everyone. They told me they hated me. I would see them marvel at my sister. Calling her mom. They abandoned me. Later on, they became big time criminals. Soon into a gang. Killing off anyone in their way. Everything was chaotic. Everyone kept nagging at me to have them in court and sentenced to death. They all seemed to be scared and hated my children. I wanted them to change. I convinced everyone to give them some time. Let them have a chance to get their lives together. One day, my daughter came back crying telling me she was sick of the things that made her life feel so cruel to her. She wanted someone to be with her and love her again. I was willing to love her even if she didn't need it. My son became a wanted serial killer, drug dealer, and counterfeiter. Everyone became afraid, but I kept loving him. He was my son and he came from me. As a mother, I felt the miserable life he was living. Only being able to forget what ever happened the night before, thieving people of their money in order to survive, being feared and lonely of the ones he wanted to become close to finding everyone got hurt because of him. I felt his pain. And because of his sins, everyone was perishing. My only choice was to take him out of his misery for him and for everyone else. This was the only way. I gave him time and time hoping he'll change. I tried pampering him with what ever i had, but it seemed nothing could go through to him. He was completely overtaken by hate and sin. Nothing could turn him back. My heart ached in agony as I reported him and had him sentenced to death. I watched as my son glared into my eyes with that helpless hate that consumed him. But I loved him. I missed him. But this was the only way to have everything back to peace. I had no other option. But I did all these things out of my love. Because of my love, my daughter who wasn't fully penetrated by her wrongdoings came back. Because of my love, I was able to place peace within my community and finished the misery of my son. I cried my heart out that I lost him and my love wasn't able to reach him. <br />
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May I ask if I did the right thing?

I believe you did.. I believe you are strong to do that as well.. You just may have saved many lives.. A cruel life will make a cruel persona.. The world corrupted him.. some things you just cant take control of. You are a very strong woman.

You did good. and I also can tell you that I am like your child. I have so much hate. I know one day I will also break apart because I am corrupted already. I know one day like your son I will lose my life. I can tell you that he knew you loved him, but sometimes we cant control who we are anymore.

I started to read and thought it was intriguing. I sort of gave up but got the gist of it. I have gone the Christian route and had some intriguing spiritual experiences in which I got so called "saved" and got the gift of "speaking in tongues" almost immediately after praying for it. Whatever we believe in or are supposed to believe in doesn't change the truth of life itself or however life really came about or whatever supposed consequences prevail if we get off the beaten path and "sin". I think life provides mechanisms for us to deal with the unknown or give us a set of principles to follow. The great thing about life is we have a choice to follow whatever works for us. We are here to interact and learn how to be with each other and help each other to make the most out of this "trip" called life. Whatever our spiritual path our only true enemy is ourselves and when we look at what is wrong in the world outside of ourselves and delude ourselves in to thinking we can make it go away.<br />
Words only have the meaning we give to them. They only represent our best ex<x>pression of what is the truth behind our ex<x>pression. We can only understand by the limits of our perception and the meanings we give to other people's ex<x>pressions. It is the principles I live by that are important. Those can be gotten anywhere.

I was asked several times by Christians on my college campus this past year about having a “relationship” with either God or Jesus. I simply don’t understand this. Unless you believe that God/Jesus secretly speaks to you, then it seems to me like a very one-sided relationship. If I told people that I have (present tense) a relationship with a deceased relative, or that I have a relationship with a colony of invisible fairies, I would probably be considered insane. Yet, if I say that it is God, then that is considered perfectly normal.<br />
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it’s really just a semantic game, changing the name of something without changing its substance.

Arguments only breed quarrels with ignorant fools.. Assuming by your writing, You don't seem to be either of them.. and Me.. I take no anger in an argument.. I'm a bit offensive at times.. but I like to challenge the other to prove me wrong.. Which in the end is really what I would like to see.. I do not shy away from Christianity in fear of commitment.. it is because of what I know.. I refuse to be a slave of a book and a cruel master.. And You can not deny he is cruel.. a Church does not murder an Ego.. Some feel shame for going, because they know it is wrong.. Or they do not feel right.. Most of the time people just think its boring and stupid.. Us Wiccan's are crack addicted to love too.. Our only law is "do what you will, so long you harm ye none" We believe to show love to others is showing love to ourselves as well.. We are blessed by Karma by our good deeds, and punished for our bad ones.. In my Religion we are not put down as servants.. We are not told we are lower.. Cause My Mother has no servants.. she has followers and people who love her because she loves us in return.. She did not murder her own and give us laws that we can not, not break because human nature made us do so.. We do not burn in hell because we chose away from our God.. My Mother is a Guide, To guide us to be strong and independent.. To be equal with her. and walk beside her as a family.. not a Servant at her feet.. She is worth my love.. Yahweh is not.. But.. Serve who you will.. But This is Real love over here.. Unconditional.. And The best part.. Is You dont get burned for eternity for not believing in her.. She is just that loving and understanding..

You never did answer the question bro. I didn't think someone who says they have the answers....would easily turn tail from this argument. <br />
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Anyways, I love what you written down here, I learned a lot.<br />
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For me, religion will not make me a tool. I will not follow the ways of someone I cannot comprehend. A lot of times people tell me just to believe in his words and your world will be for the better, but I've tried that. It's the same as if I didn't believe in anything spiritual at all. To be honest, I am in the same boat as you....kind of...<br />
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I am agnostic for this reason. No one has effectively proved me wrong or right with religion. A lot of times people will use aggression to try and get their point across about their belief. It's too bad that people should respect your choice of belief, whether you agree with it or not. Also people are keen to putting their own personal experience in the mix which doesn't help explain things clearer.<br />
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We share an experience shallowdreamers..<br />
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I also was kicked out of a Baptist church for asking questions about god. All these people who have these burning questions to ask the pastor and I was the only one with balls to get up on stage and question his existence. What did they call me? They called me a quitter and told me I was a lost child. What little do they know that if they wanted me to see the light, they would of gave me an explanation at least....I would of sit down and listened. But most people don't have religious tolerance, or if you ask too many questions, you'll be called an outcast too.<br />
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I happen to live life happily without worshiping any god or religion. I just have a set placement of morals which I deem right or wrong. The funny part is that I take all parts of religions and pick out the little things I can agree with, instead of believing all of it as a whole. <br />
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I read everything even though I am not a religious man, but you have very valid points. If only people can learn to look at the dispute in different angles, different viewpoints...then maybe they can see where you are coming from. Thanks for the information, I'm gonna actually look at all the facts presented to make a judgement for myself. <br />
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The best way to open eyes is to figure out the things you don't know.

2 Timothy 23. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels
(this is why I will not continue in such a futile task). I planted a seed, that is all that I seek to do. Also, I thank you for your comment. I love the fact that religion makes me a tool. It disciplines me to be a better servant to my brother and to mankind, which is my purpose for breathing. I am to be used, and exploited for all of my talents, time, and resources. Yes, I surrender all. I am addicted to LOVE, and just a crack addicted will sell everything he has to have a that feeling again. I am totally seduced by Love and constantly crave it. Most spiritual people who shy away from religion have a hidden fear of commitment. They fear that they will be giving up some good thing by joining a loving church and dedicating their self to building loving relationships. They go to receive love and get upset when others dont bow to their belief system, but we go to Love others in spite of their sin or judgment and we dont condem them even though they may be a church leader or elder in the church. Church is the hardest place to be, because it is murder to the EGO. And the ego is our only enemy, he is evil incarnate(Satan)

The only thing I found that was not correct in my writing is the Story of Horus, There are bits and pieces I found wrong.. Thank you very much for your view's and support!

What is wrong with christianity.. is the bible itself..

I do not wish to argue with you or to make you my enemy. I wish you the very best in life. I go in peace.

Well, my friend, first let me start off by saying that I am not here to argue for that would profit us nothing. I understand how it can be to seek God and feel empty. That is the feeling of vanity. It is the product of a life lived for self alone, and not others. God is a spirit and not a man, so to look to church members, family, friends, or even a spouse( or even someone on this website) would be futile. You will go in circles like a rat running on a spinning wheel going nowhere. Every TRUE follower of Jesus goes through a questioning phase where he/she reads many books with amazing facts about how the Bible is a lie and it is a stolen religion and Jesus was a pagan god and how modern Christianity is a hoax etc etc. However, the problem is again looking outside of yourself for the answer, when all the time the answer is inside you. And you are right to say how the Church is messed up and there are many false prophets in this world. That is true but we as God's children TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for being contributors to a fallen world and we don't BLAME. BLAME is the sign of an immature person in general, (its all their fault, I'm the victim !!!) But remember the pharasees and saudacees and teachers of the law(bible) in Jesus's day. They did one thing, and taught another. Please try to understand that like Jesus we are called to pray and seek the deepest truth from God and be the ones to lead by example. If you commit a crime, you cant blame someone else, that doesn't hold up in court. You will still go to jail. There is nothing wrong with Jesus or Christianity, its just that people sometimes give the religion a bad name. Just like if someone in your family with your last name went out and committed a crime, many people might think negative about you or your family but that doesn't automatically make you evil because someone bearing your name did wrong. You are noble to seek the highest truth. But grace is a gift, and you cannot EARN your way into heaven. This merit ba<x>sed economy that we live in(capitalism) is proof of that. It's power will collapse just like everyone who lives their life according to their own righteousness. I know you will find your truth deep inside of you. It is your destiny..........Bless

HAHAHAHAHAHA. YOU GUYS ALL SOUND RIDICULOUS. GOD IS AWESOME WONDERFUL AND MAGNIFICENT. You my friend are what is called a quitter and you follow the logic pattern, "If I cant understand it, then it must be false" I can answer every single one of your questions about God with SOUND LOGIC AND REASON, but to a nonbeliever its never good enough. You will find a way to make it sound wrong. I will pray for you my brother. God and I want you to be in eternal fellowship together with the Body of Christ. We love you. The reason why God did not MAKE you love Him and the reason why "evil" exists is so that you would choose to love Him. Would you put a gun to a female's head whom you admire and Force her to give you her affection? No. LOVE is a choice, hence the two trees in the mist of the Garden, people follow God because they find no other joy in the world. Friends, Family, and all those whom you put on a pedestal and make false gods of will eventually let you down and betray your trust, or use you and give you nothing in return. Eventually, if you live long enough, you will find that to be a reality. GOD is LOVE. Choose Home and live forever in bliss. Hell is a life without love and God wont send you there, you will KILL YOURSELF. Ask suicidal people without hope or love what hell feels like or experience it yourself sooner or later.

Well.. If you got the ammo to shoot me down With Logic and Reason.. Do It.. Im waiting to hear it.. I am not a quiter, Im just not a fool.. Your simply not speaking logically at all.. and The only reason I could work my away around your logic is with better logic.. So toss it at me, or just quit talking.. Your a christian and you know nothing about who my God/gods or anything is.. If i worship anything or not.. My God tells me to earn my power.. My God is a guide not a dictator like your Yahweh.. So please do.. Toss something at me.. and throw some logic.. or just quit wasting my time..

Nice, haha looks like we have something in common here, I was kicked out of my church for even questioning his existence..

Most people wont bother to do that much research. I heard a christian the other day comment that God had no problem putting people in hell Really? What kind of loving God would be totally fine with burning people in the mythological hell?? Christians are very cold people, and when someone reaches to them for help they will shun them especially if they dont fit their image of what is pure. Been there, been shunned, got sick of it.<br />
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I quit faith and pretty much would be considered a deist. The stories of the bible appear to me to be magical, mythological stuff, such as Samson, Job and others. Really. A man who's strength is in his hair, who catches three hundred foxes, and who kills one thousand men with the jawbone of a lawyer/politician. Seriously.<br />
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I prayed for many years, and I went through two attempts at faith, for nothing. No God was there to hear me, and never will be.<br />
I occasionally wear a pentagram, I also wear crosses. I'm goth, people think I'm evil anyhow. To me they are just ancient symbols. <br />
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To this hour I always hoped for one compassionate Christian who would come forward and talk to me, listen to what I had to say and offer some hope. To this hour all they care about is sitting in church on Sunday and avoiding hell fire. Ministers are so full of faith, of course, since that pile of money keeps them in nice cars and houses. <br />
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The last forjum I was in was Christian.net. The administrators are rude, cold uncompassionate people who banned me angrilly for showing compassion to a lonely person. They told me repeatedly to never ever come back. Sons of the Satan they despise. <br />
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The best thing I ever did was to wake up and leave Christianity. The wife is still a Christian and cant figure out why her prayers are never answered.

You stated that 'To this hour I always hoped for one compassionate Christian who would come forward and talk to me, listen to what I had to say and offer some hope. To this hour all they care about is sitting in church on Sunday and avoiding hell fire.' Is your wife not a compassionate person towards you? Not EVERY Christian is the way u described. Just like SD here, not every WICCAN are the same. Christianity has just gotten a really bad rep, but when you look at what Jesus taught, it was not what these hypocritical 'Christians' are doing.