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Please Don't Insult Me. Respect Goes a Long Way.

I sit the fence on many things.  Sitting the fence allows me a great view of both sides.  I am not wishy washy, but open minded and willing to learn new things in an effort to gain a better understanding of the world around me.  I watch and listen and try to learn.  I make my decisions based not only on what I know already, but also by what is presented to me at the time.  My decisions are often affected by how they are presented.

EP offers me a place to meet people from all walks of life with every kind of view.  Because I am friends with conservatives, liberals, socialists, Christians, Agnostics, Atheists, gay, straight, bi, young, old, male, female, and everything and everybody in between, I am offered the opportunity to read all kinds of stories in a variety of groups.  I like reading stories from people outside my circle, too.  I love learning about the different perspectives and how these people came to believe what they do. 

When I first became a member here, I would actively seek out various groups of people different than myself.  Not anymore.  I do, in fact, avoid many of the very groups that I had a strong desire to understand better.  I‘ve been appalled at the lack of respect or civility I‘ve come across from some of the members in these groups, and I can’t help but take some of the rudeness personally. I’m sure there are many more members here who have found the same thing, so I hope I speak for them, too.  I will address one of these groups as an example, although I know this happens in other places, too.  This one just happens to hit me the hardest.

I consider myself a Christian although I don’t attend church or affiliate myself with any one religion.  While I would like to ask questions, express my doubts, and talk about my upbringing in a church, I’ve found that I will never talk about this here on EP.  I have seen much too much hate and ridicule for anyone who dares to express their religious or spiritual beliefs, ask a question, or God forbid, speak out.  (And no, I won‘t spell it “g*d“.   And while I’m at it, don’t call me “xtian“.  I don’t call you *theist.)  The “discussions” inevitably digress to nasty barbs, belittling, mocking, caustic sarcasm, and name calling.  Some of the names I’ve come across include simpering  idiots, morons, retards, ********, parasites, uneducated degenerates, and ignorant *****.  When I read this sort of disdainful animosity, I think of my dad.  He was a linguist who spoke 7 languages.  He was an Italian interpreter in WWII, and at one time a college professor of German and Spanish.  He read at least 5 academic or intellectual books a week.  He was learning Arabic and reading “The String Theory of Evolution” when he died 6 hours short of his 82nd birthday.  He was moral, but not self-righteous.  He was the man who taught me to respect others, no matter what their race, gender, or religion.  He was a loving family man, a liberal Democrat, and a devout Catholic. 

My father was an exemplary human being, humble, honest, funny, warm and kind.  To the hate mongers, you offend me when you describe yourself as such.  You not only offend me, you offend my dad, and you offend my sense of all that is right in people.  Think before you spew your insults and hate.  You are only making a case as to why I would never want to be like you.

Myonis108 Myonis108 56-60, F 82 Responses Sep 21, 2009

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I'm at little late to this discussion but I have to agree. Extremism on either side is the single biggest (in my opinion) divide in society and politics (another naughty word). Nothing is wrong with agreeing to disagree. Wish more people could accept that.

Weird, there are so many comments gone now. Sadly, they are comments from many who have deleted their accounts here at EP... and many because they were tired of the the things I addressed here.<br />
I hope that people do learn to respect each other here. There willl always be differences of opinion and beliefs, but the basic premise of this story still stands. "Please don't insult me. Respect goes a long way."

smebro, I so agree. I respect all views...as long as they are presented with respect. I have seen too much hatred and anger here. It leads nowhere, except to wider derisions and animosity. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree; as long as intelligent people think for themselves (which are always formed on beliefs and opinions based on their lives and experiences), there will be disagreements. I see no reason for hate or anger. My dad taught me respect. I will give that to anyone who is also willing to do the same in return. Otherwise, I have no reason to continue a one-sided discourse with no hope for a respectful discussion. Call me an idiot or an ignorant ****, I will gracefully and confidently walk away because I know I am neither, and have no reason to further discuss anything. Simply speaking, you lose. Thank you for reading my story and commenting with such a wise and pragmatic view to a difficult subject...which will most likely never be resolved in our lifetime. At least we can show some respect...live and let live.

In my opinion, in terms of religious debate (I gather this is what we're talking about) there is never a 'respectful debate' to be had. It is a near impossibility for any two such incompatible world views to align even in a hypothetical universe of discussion. Try and try as we might we are too different, the flexible and the inflexible- like rubber against brick- no one can win, lose or break even.

foodlover, it's so true. "My way or the highway" seems to be the mantra with some and generally they expect the other person to hit the road, never the other way around. <br />
tefron, civil discourse is far more effective than the name calling or as hominem attacks, every time. Respectful debate is healthy. And thanks, I was lucky to have my dad for as long as I did.

I loved what you wrote. I believe in civil discourse...now more than ever. Hate intolerance and self rightousness. I believe extremism is a minority...but a loud one.<br />
I believe faith requires uncertainty as well as certainty.<br />
I wish i had had, a dad like yours:o)

And that they are. I like to think we refrain from comment for all the right reasons, and not out of fear.

Thought I'd add my comment to the other hundred. Because you might need a little encouragement to share a little more. ;-)<br />
<br />
I very much enjoyed the read, and very much agree. I pretty much avoid conflict like the plague, so I like debates when they're small. A few people sitting around on couches, or, if online, in PM form.<br />
<br />
I will tell people pretty much the same thing as you do - I am a Christian, but not always a very good one. I don't usually go to church - because i don't like a lot of people who say they're Christian ;-) <br />
<br />
At the same time, I have friends from all backgrounds, like you. And I wonder, if I were as open in discussing my ideas, would they be as willing to read my opinions as I am theirs? While I could never see myself stop believing in God, I do look at their posts...I read, and refrain from comment.<br />
<br />
Yes, respect would be a good thing for everyone to learn.

Dear lady we are of a like mind on this topic. xx

stevester, I love a good debate. I love hearing both sides of an argument. If everyone commented in a rote, buttoned up manner, EP would be a very boring place. I even like a bit of sarcasm when it's humorous, but too many times I've seen it used to slam someone down and it comes off as cruel and condescending. Sarcasm in itself is rooted in a negative to begin with, so I think in an online forum where smiles and inflections are difficult to convey, it's best left to the lighter stories. I appreciate forthright comments in a debate. Those are the comments that often most clearly state where the commenter stands. If the argument is solid, there is no reason to resort to mean sarcasm and nasty names. I don't think there are many folks who take kindly to being called an ignorant **** even if it's meant to ***** the bubble of egocentrism. Direct confrontation can be done in a way that doesn't reduce what could be a great discussion into nothing more than back and forth swipes. I very much appreciate your comment on this story.

I thought I'd wait a while before venturing into this post cos I wanted it to be about what you said and what other like minded people think. I liked what you said and obviously you have a lot of support from your friends here. Good. <br />
<br />
I don't sit on the fence very often and enjoy the cut and thrust of debate. Sure sometimes the comments get a bit barbed. Anyone who reads anything I write on here knows it's a bit cynical and sarcastic, but sometimes, and i admit they are rare, there's some sense in it. I come across others who comment in a very forthright manner and in a way I expect them to do that because I have got to know that's what they do. I might be wrong but I think some of the debates on here have a shape that people come to expect, there's the intellectual side, there's the dogmatic side, there's the very confrontational side, some like you go with the flow and there's some like me who tend to jump in without thinking. But don't you think individuality is what gives us anonymous people and avatars on here a form of personality? I accept that sometimes it appears to go over the top but i have seen a very intellectual discussion (and there are some hot thinkers in here) take a completely different and interesting turn because someone pops and calls us all pretentious wankers. It could be considered rude but sometimes it ****** the bubble of egocentrism.

Mega, I appreciate your thought but I can't say I agree with it. I can come up with many things I haven't made a decision about. There have been times I've acted quite differently than I thought I would when faced with a difficult situation.

Remember there is no gray. Only black and white and those on the fence have already made a decision.

Thanks, gounreal. I appreciate the comment.

Well said! =) 2 thumbs up for that

You're welcome. I'm missing my dad terribly right now. :(

I very much enjoyed reading this post as well as it's thread. Thank you Myonis.

Very much enjoyed reading this story .. thanks Myo xx

There are so many thoughtful eloquent posts, and I'm so very grateful.

Great post, and your father was a great man. I totally agree with you

I'm with you myonis108, YouPaintTheBoxYouLiveIn does write some amazing stuff. Kudos to him.

Reminds me of my dad, he's still alive. He taught us tolerance, we grew up in a cultural melting pot, mostly new immigrants and it was a great experience! My dad also taught us to do our own thinking, listen to all sides, but make up your own mind. He taught us to "question everything" and not take someone's word for granted. <br />
<br />
The sitting on the fence bit threw me at first, I tend to understand this as someone who can't make a decision, but you don't strike me as suffering from this at all.<br />
<br />
Naturally most intelligent folks know that to argue with ignorance and stupidity is a pointless chore. Thank God for people like you Myo who are confident enough to express their own opinions without fear or favour AND has something worthwhile to say!<br />
<br />
Nice post.

Thanks, Dope. It's great to have you back.<br />
Salar1, thank you, too. I always appreciate reading your comments.<br />
YouPaintTheBoxYouLiveIn, wow...that was beautiful and thought provoking. I wish I could write like you!

A lady of substance , with a moral pedigree to match , and a mind to vocus it with .... a credit to your father <br />
<br />
Well said My

This has to be one of the most important and heartfelt experiences I have ever read on this site. I applaud you. :)

There's always gotta be one wet blanket, I suppose. <br />
Thanks, I love you, too. =)

My only claim to spirituality in this venue was---and I'm not sure if it was true--I said "I'm a practicing Green Witch." I do have a strong feeling of connection with plants---but I think "Green Witch" was really an exaggeration. I hesitate to label myself with a claim to the religion that I practice. No sooner does a person say, "I am a Christian." or "I am a Buddhist." or "I am an Athiest." or "I am a Muslim". whether it's in the real world or online---you risk having to listen to people tell you what you believe. Seldom do people ASK what you believe... also, if you tell people what you don't believe, you risk making them angry. Politics is risky too-- for the same reason...still I find myself entering into these discussions--because I really am interested in what other people think--especially those who disagree with me. :). I don't mean to be condescending, when I laugh at people who are rude and start name calling and insulting me...it's just because I am very old and have spent a lot of my life raising children...naughty children are amusing---when they act like that...as long as they don't get physical--time out in the corner---or a good long nap is what I recommend.

Owlafaye--If you don't stop being bad, Santa is going to bring you switches and rotten potatoes for Christmas. rotfl :)

Hi ono! Thanks. I find people's behavior fascinating sometimes, good and bad. You said, "a new view helps one to see the greater picture, and even adjust ones own thoughts." You got the gist across in 25 words or less. :) I agree, but it's harder to see another's view when it's clouded with disrespect.

My, <br />
<br />
I have always thought that the rudeness which comes out in many people can be due to their own closedmindedness. Take a moment, and notice, people other than ourselves, are fascinating. Why do people think and act they way they do? Do I really identify with that belief, behavior, action? Sometimes, a new view helps one to see the greater picture, and even adjust ones own thoughts. <br />
<br />
You keep being you. Cause, quite frankly, I just adore the way you see things.

So true, sadly... :(

well you know that the idiots are just stalking waiting to prey on someone, slim chance of that happening.<br />
<br />
i do commend you on your story. <br />
<br />
lots of love girl.

Faucon yes, I will concede to acting goofy now and then (er, most of the time...)<br />
Hi, PTMAN. Thanks. I am very tired of this sort of behavior. I think we've lost many good people as a result of it. <br />
<br />
I was even hoping this thread would stay clean and respectful.

owlafaye, to borrow a word from your impressive vocabulary, are you so "goofy" that the irony of your trying to start trouble in a story all about respect and tolerance for the beliefs of others is completely lost on you?

wow mayo this story is incredible, i love it. and i totally agree with you in every word and sentence.<br />
<br />
it is hard to be who you are on here, because there are many people that will find faults.<br />
<br />
that may be one of the reasons that so many people are leaving this site. they get tired of being called names and being harrased by the idiots that don't know when to shut the hell up.<br />
<br />
thank you so much for your story, i totally enjoyed it.

owlafaye: Yes, I can: <br />
this in 25 words or less Myonis108 (any relation to Myonis341?) <br />
And no, no relation to Myonis341. <br />
<br />
And I am asking you respectfully to please not comment if you can't be respectful yourself.

I am overwhelmed. Truly overwhelmed. I can't express how pleased and touched I am to see so much support and so many beautiful sentiments. <br />
There are too many comments here at this point to thank and acknowledge every person who took the time to read my story and express their own opinions about it. I have taken in every word, including the beautiful "Desiderata" poem (thank you, randyfblack) that has always been one of my favorites. <br />
But to owlafaye: I was not discussing religion. I was expressing why I DON'T discuss religion. You clearly missed the entire point of my story and I thank you for reinforcing so well exactly what I was talking about.

Thank you for writing this and I hope it helped you get it out and off your chest.

Very nicely put Myonis108, like you I too have a strong, highly intelligent, self taught, learn anything,well read, passionate( in a quiet kind of dignifyed way) loving & very dear, loyal( married & still in love with mum 59yrs) wonderful father!<br />
Although I'm not christian I have beliefs and morals, standards, opinions and a great willingness to give the benifit of the doubt till shown otherwise.<br />
Being a fairly new member of EP I've taken my time to look around and take it slowly getting to know people.<br />
I've been lucky and not really encountered what you and others have found. Although I'm a realist also and can see how it can start with a flippant quip or blatent rant and escalate from there! Sad hey?<br />
Because EP seems to have such a diverse range of different types of folk with interesting and entertaining and sometimes heart wrenchingly sad experiences that I've had such a journey, wow!<br />
I have enjoyed and been saddened by your words and thank you for your honesty and for sharing with us!<br />
I hope you continue to encounter more of the good hearted ones who you will get more out of, than the ones who leave that bad taste in ones mouth!<br />
Peace and tranquility to you and yours!

Kudos to you Myonis108! The less than exemplary behavior of others serve as picture fr<x>ame of the kind of person that your father exemplified. Most of the people who are mean and nasty online would not act like that in the real world. Don't allow them to steal your joy and tranquility. <br />
<br />
Your observations reminded me of the wisdom found in the Desiderata;<br />
<br />
<b>Desiderata</b><br />
<br />
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,<br />
and remember what peace there may be in silence.<br />
As far as possible without surrender<br />
be on good terms with all persons.<br />
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;<br />
and listen to others,<br />
even the dull and the ignorant;<br />
they too have their story. <br />
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,<br />
they are vexations to the spirit.<br />
If you compare yourself with others,<br />
you may become vain and bitter;<br />
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.<br />
<br />
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. <br />
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;<br />
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.<br />
Exercise caution in your business affairs;<br />
for the world is full of trickery.<br />
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;<br />
many persons strive for high ideals;<br />
and everywhere life is full of heroism. <br />
<br />
Be yourself.<br />
Especially, do not feign affection.<br />
Neither be cynical about love;<br />
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment<br />
it is as perennial as the grass. <br />
Take kindly the counsel of the years,<br />
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.<br />
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.<br />
<br />
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.<br />
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.<br />
Beyond a wholesome discipline,<br />
be gentle with yourself. <br />
You are a child of the universe,<br />
no less than the trees and the stars;<br />
you have a right to be here.<br />
And whether or not it is clear to you,<br />
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. <br />
<br />
Therefore be at peace with God,<br />
whatever you conceive Him to be,<br />
and whatever your labors and aspirations,<br />
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. <br />
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,<br />
it is still a beautiful world.<br />
Be cheerful.<br />
Strive to be happy. <br />
<br />
Max Ehrmann, Desiderata

This is an absolutely beautiful post. Thanks Myo for sharing this with us.

Your father sounds like he was an incredible man. Thank you for sharing this story. I love my father dearly but he is a critic of so many things that it has really narrowed his ability to understand the differences in all people. I do not blame you for not joining some of these groups where the topic is either political or religous. I respect other people's beliefs even if they are not my own. This story you shared was articulated quite beautifully. Good for you for opening up and sharing something so important. I hope that it makes other people stop and think and appreciate all that is around them.

Milady myo<br />
<br />
Well said and well written. <br />
<br />
Love and peace and grace to you .<br />
<br />
b

And why I love and respect you so much my friend. <br />
<br />
Well said - articulate - to the point - respectful - written in a way that I am sure would have made your father very proud.<br />
<br />
I have yet to discuss my spiritual beliefs in any real depth, and find myself mostly the observer. I keep going back to my 3 point threshold - Is it kind? Is it true? - Is it necessary? If it doesn't meet all three, I keep my mouth shut. Many times it will meet two of the three, but I always go back to the number one (for me that is) - Is it kind?<br />
<br />
I am proud to have you as a friend and an important member of my circle.<br />
<br />
xxoo

This is a great post Myo - Bravo. I concur with all the comments here... and frankly am surprised the thread has not been pooped on by the negative nillies.I am Christian and also avoid forum discussions about religion (politics, etc..) for exactly the same reasons you mention.I find it ironic I've been in a year long relationship with an atheist (agnostic) and we get along fine by respecting each other's beliefs. We're all human afterall and respect in spite of our differences should be a no brainer.Thanks for expressing this sentiment so well. YOU ROCK!

I am sure you do but he lives on in you.

Thanks, UC. I know he would loved to have heard that. I miss him.

Wonderful post, Myonis. Beautiful tribute to the great man that was your father whose teachings made you the wondeful, caring and intelligent woman that you are.

you welcome.

perhaps you misunderstood my intentions. nevermind

Like minded? I like all minds, as long as long as they are respectful. If you feel the need to run screaming, I would encourage you to do so . Thank you for commenting.

hmmmm wondering if I should run screaming from this place. I came here to find like minded spiritual GOD loving people!!

LilAnnie, I like how you conduct yourself. I've never seen you disrespectful or nasty. But then, I don't enter those arenas much. :) Disagreeing or making a point is great and a smart debate is invigorating and fun. It takes us out of our mental malaise and makes us think harder and smarter. <br />
And I certainly am surrounded by amazing people here. :)

Thanks Mother, NowSure, and Chickadee. I seldom write on touchy subjects. I usually pass the stories by...live and let live. <br />
NowSure, it was from the heart and that's what drove me to write it. It's nice to see you online!!

Myo, look at the people who surround you here! All of them wonderful contributors to the site, aren't they? You do your Dad proud by the way you conduct yourself.<br />
<br />
Me? I admit to getting a naughty thrill out of tweaking someone with different politics from mine. I've wandered into atheist groups and teased them too! I'm glad none of my rings and runs have seemed to make anybody angry cause it so much darn fun!

well said

Of a certain age? I bet he looks handsome to any woman if they know the true definition. Do you look like him? He sounds wonderful. I love how you described him as a professor of life.

Trixie, "Name calling is easy--a half-wit can pull that off" is so true. It doesn't require any thought or intelligence and is the basest form of arguing. That's why toddlers take to it so readily, and any parent knows there's no reasoning with an angry toddler. And no, there aren't too many apologies offered, only more inflammatory posts, it seems. They fear an apology would mean they were relenting or giving in. That's too bad. Apologies should always be offered when someone behaves badly.<br />
HappySailor, I do love the feel of a fence under my butt because I'm short and I can see a little better. <br />
betty, you were with your dad today, weren't you?

You just like the feeling of the fence between your butt cheeks...

Snowy, thanks. My dad was all that and a bushel of chips. Don't mess with my dad, you know? (I think he's grinning at me.)

I agree, betty. It's the fanatics on both sides whose primary agenda here is to prove how right they are and how wrong the "other side" is. The criticism of grammar and spelling is pompous. I know some extremely bright folks with dyslexia who could hold their own in a verbal situation, but would be belittled and ridiculed here. Some people are just lazy. Throwing intellectual prowess around in big words and fancy language usually comes off as condescending and I think it's meant to be way too often. You're so right, too, "it's nigh on impossible to stop it".

My- this is a wonderful and heartfelt post you shared with all of us here. <br />
<br />
Your dad sounds like an intelligent, well rounded, loving father. Something I know you must be proud of. I cant help but thank him for providing all of us here with such a wonderful, intelligent friend ..who shows all friendship and has an amazing point of view.<br />
<br />
Reading this was refreshing!

I focused on the stories regarding religion, but I see this in other topics, as well. It got pretty ugly during the election, too, and it would apply to any emotional topic where passions and emotions run high. I think the name calling and hateful remarks are inexcusable in ANY forum. I think it's a shame so many people won't speak up out of fear of getting massacred for their beliefs.

He was the funniest man on earth, I swear. He was a master of jokes and a supreme storyteller. I think I got my outrageous sense of humor from him. :P

Joywish, thanks, it does take a great deal of energy and sometimes it's wasted energy. Who wants to step into a lion's den?<br />
Shadow, I need to add Pagan to the types of friends in my circle. Sadly, you're mom had a point, but it isn't always that way. I can discuss these topics with anybody as long as it stays unemotional and respectful. That doesn't mean a person can't feel passion. Even someone who is truly passionate can express their views without getting nasty.

Lilt, would "Our church needs more Hot Mamas like you" work?<br />
Awhore, these hot button topics do incite emotions, and if they get in the way, the discussion inevitably disintegrates into arguing. It takes self-control, and respect for the fact there will ALWAYS be differing opinions.

Way to kick me when I'm down :(

If someone really thinks the quality of my life would improve if I came to their church on Sunday, calling me a poopoohead probably isn't going to convince me.

Lilt, exactly, and EP loses as a result.<br />
Paco, thank you.

Well presented. Straight up and from the hip. I respect you for that. Paco35

Nyxie, CaptaiMac, and Frito, thank you. This story was written to address the behavior of members here. I am quite different from many of the people in my circle and some of them are actually my closest friends here. That's possible because we respect each other and allow for the differences. I believe respect is earned, another thing my dad taught me by his example. I try to keep that in mind when I post a comment or story here. My name is on that and I will have to own it. Self-respect is important, too.

There is a very good reason why many people refuse to discuss religion or politics.

You Dad sounds like a special man My! Respect and tolerance rate high on my list on how I like to be treated and how I intend to treat people...including those on EP.

El, you're right. Intellectually, I know I should never take anything personally. In my perfect world, that would be a beautiful thing. You say, "If one is not being treated with appropriate respect there are two options. One - leave. Two - mercilessly flog the offender until realization - like a beautiful halo - appears at last." Good options (and did you mean flog, or flag as in the EP option?) I would never flog anybody. It's bad manners and might make my own halo a little crooked. And I will most certainly not leave. I rather tend to dig my heels in, and I've been know to wear some very high heels. I find it disappointing that I can't come here and find civil discourse on these subjects. It's a two sided thing here. EP could serve as the perfect venue for healthy debate because the facial ex<x>pressions, body language and inflections aren't visible. That lends more power to the words, and why not use that to one's advantage? On the other hand, it also lends cowards a platform to embrace the ugly side they may not otherwise display in a face to face discussion, and unfortunately, that seems to be what I'm finding more of here.

Very well stated, Myo, and rather badly needed here at the moment, I'm afraid. Respect and tolerance for others are in short supply these days, both online and in real life. We would all do well to remember the excellent example of your father and others like him who didn't just talk about their values, but lived them.

This post made me very happy and I am glad you went to the trouble of writing it. (I like a girl that likes her dad!) What many people fail to realize is that it is possible to be profoundly intellectual and deeply religious; T.S. Eliot jumps to mind but the list is almost endless. -- The problem is that EP is ADD central; it does not lend itself to calm, in-depth, reasoned debate. When you hit inflammatory issues like racism, religion, and politics, what you get instead is mindless, and often nasty, name calling. However, dear Myo, I think it is a mistake to take this personally. It is merely the way things go around here. Even after well over 2 years on EP I still enjoy encountering different viewpoints. However, my parents - both European - believed that good manners should be in effect at all times, even when one is encountering a Neanderthal. If one is not being treated with appropriate respect there are two options. One - leave. Two - mercilessly flog the offender until realization - like a beautiful halo - appears at last.

Grunt, thank you. My father was fiercely truthful. Maybe I learned something after all. <br />
DHG1, thanks for reading my story and for your kind comment.

Coyote, thank you. I will look into Joseph Campbell. I appreciate your comment. I think you touched on something very important, too. So many people have to prove they are right, but angrily throwing their argument in someone's face isn't going to win anyone over. They diminish their chances of even being heard because no one responds positively to being called an ignorant ****. It defeats their purpose and no matter how founded or intelligent the rest of their stance may be, it only serves to make them look desperate and bitter.<br />
Lauren, I would never want to shame my father. He often keeps me in line. Toots and my dad would have been good friends.

thank you for sharing Myo, this is a great touching very true story....

Im truly sorry about your dad. Good food for thought.

stone, meet glass house..

Thank you. I miss my dad. It was a guarantee if you met my dad you would love him.<br />
I am willing to listen to any debate or discussion (something else my dad taught me) as long it doesn't go down the path I described. I have seen so much ugliness here. The arguments are sometimes laughable. "Pot, meet the kettle."

Yay!<br />
<br />
I made the mistake of asking a question... in fact a few times. Im just asking, Im not asking to be slated for what I do or do not believe in.<br />
<br />
It always seems to me, that it's the same answers, from believers and non-believers. Yet neither of them can argue their point without either qouting the bible, which is fine if they understood what they said, or quoting someone or other who wrote a paper on it once.<br />
<br />
<br />
Wars are going on over this. Why bring it here.