Sounds Good In Theory...

...but I know that, as a realist, it doesn't always work out that way. Even people who say it, are invariably already lucky enough to be with someone attractive, so how are we ever to prove that the person's looks weren't a factor?

EnigmaVest EnigmaVest
22-25, M
7 Responses Feb 13, 2010

I was supposed to not respond but I will. Sorry, I don't have much to say now I have too much going on in my life at this moment and I'm exhausted. Yes, I was provoking you. My intension wasn't bad though, it's your choice to believe me or not.<br />
By the way, I think this "perverse pleasure" you wrote about is called being alive.

Ok, I see, we're now resorting to sophistry whereby my previous post is picked apart sentence by sentence in order to "illuminate" the myriad of logical inconsistencies in my position, if you can really call what I just wrote a "position". So the bulk of your response is basically quoting me <br />
followed by why what I just said was wrong/improper/misleading/untruthful, etc, etc. I did NOT see THAT one coming. The old Oxford Debating Clubs remedial class appears to have many students. I can't believe I was almost outfoxed by a rhetorical stratagem so sophisticated, it's a whole other generation above "Oh look! Your shoe's untied!". <br />
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Ok, look, seriously. As snide, sarcastic and (according to you, apparently) emotionally immature <br />
that I can be sometimes, these actually are my outlets for defending my pride/ego. Some people <br />
would call them a poor substitute for higher discourse, but I tend to disagree, or at least I tell <br />
myself that. Of course I still retain a shred of pride/ego at the present. They never really went <br />
away. But let me ask you this: what position would you have taken had I NOT chosen to respond to your comments? Another follow-up comment decrying my apparent silence in refusing to defend myself, only "proving" your assumption that I'm not ready to "face the facts"? So may I assume by your logic, if I respond to comments which I perceive as "trolling" (which I actually don't think they are), I'm immature and prideful, but if I DON'T respond, I'm conceding the argument and admitting defeat? That question is not rhetorical, it really IS a genuine question. Do you see these kind of "arguments" as a competition, always striving for the knock-down blow and claiming victory? If it's the case, then we can both be going back and forth at each other ad nauseum, neither side admitting failure or defeat, and both sides trying to outflank the other with specious reasoning and rhetorical slight of hand. I share as much of the blame of that as you do. Maybe my pride IS getting the better of me, but maybe that's not such a bad thing always. I'm not saying that all, or anything of what you've said is 100% true about me, but I will sheepishly admit that the seemingly caustic (purely my perception, and not necessarily your intention) tone that these messages have had have actually raised my hackles in a way not seen for a long time. Of course I didn't confuse your appraisal of my emotionality as you attacking my manhood. Poor choice of words on my part. Of course I knew what you meant by that, but it still was the one salient detail of your message that sparked my "prideful response". And no, my onomatopoeic *sigh* was not a gesture of derision towards you, but rather towards myself. You have to read my sentence again. I was referring to my belief that you were deliberately provoking me into a response, and I was obliging you, even against my better judgment. <br />
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I actually looked forward with some kind of perverse pleasure to arriving home from work and <br />
wondering what awaited me on EP. Please do not interpret this as some roundabout way of eliciting attention, as I have already explained my lack of desire for "negative" attention in the PM I sent to you a while ago. I quite surprisingly decided to engage in a heated debate, whereas in the past I would have quietly slinked off to my corner and said "Please don't hurt me". (Speaking of my PM, I made it very clear that there WERE issues with comments being deleted, but as for the gestures, I can honestly say I don't know what happened there. If you sent one, I never saw it.)<br />
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I don't want to pick apart all of your previous comments like you did with me (although I seemed to have covered the main points anyway). So all I'll say in closing is that, yeah, I did entertain the idea that there were some elements of BPD in you creating an overcompensation to low self-esteem in the form of overly hurtful comments, especially in the protection of anonymity as provided by EP. Note I said ENTERTAINED, so as not to fuel your wrath that I actually 100% believe it to be true. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Not for me to say at this point. <br />
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Yeah, I hope I don't come to ruin as well. I really do. Maybe you think I'm not ready for the truth, or change, or whatever, but we all get there by different paths. It's not as easy as flipping a switch. Believe me. You said I need to see myself through other people's eyes, but if all you see is an emotionally crippled child, throwing tantrums and holding grudges against everyone and everything, then tell me how it is that I'M supposed to see myself as anything but that? <br />
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I'm exhausted and off to bed. If you've grown tired of this back and forth, I completely understand. If not, I await your response tomorrow with baited breath. :)

".I know you meant "romantic" love. Yadda, yadda, yadda. My point still holds, though." you've just contradicted yourself, provide arguments for the romantic love. You've proved one thesis and think that another one becomes automatically true with the first one. There's a mistake in your logic or you're deliberately trying to mislead me.<br />
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Why is it that you clutch so much to this 'manhood' of yours? Read again, what I wrote. I'm not castrating you by these words... You just have an emotionality of a child, that is what it means.<br />
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"I mean, if I knew you genuinely meant well, then by all means, say what you want to say. I WANT to hear it.". No, you don't want to hear an honest opinion. I have a lot more important things to do, than "piling on someone for no other reason than a perceived weakness that needs to be ridiculed." Are you omniscient? Do you always assume people who criticize you have no other reason than that? You only see what you want to see. You reminded me of someone important to me and this is the reason, I talked to you, if you must know (to the stalker-it's the person who is getting married soon). It looks like you're not ready for a talk like this though.<br />
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"No, of course not, and I'm sorry for those whose mothers did NOT love them unconditionally."<br />
I wasn't referring to my mother's love to me. I don't talk about romantic love and parent-child love alternatively. If I said, I'm a product of "unconditional" love, I clearly meant this what's been between my parents. Why do you drag a mother into this? Not the word "mother" in a way I used it to call a woman not related to you. A mother of a child. It's a good way to provoke anyone, isn't it...<br />
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"However, trying to elicit a response from someone for your own amusement by questioning their "manhood" isn't exactly proper Queensberry Rules. And yet here I respond...*sigh*."<br />
-For WHOM do you respond? Is it really for me or just for your own comfort? I don't need your words and if I am so obviously "lower" than you, that you even have to emphasize your words by onomatopoeia, why didn't you just ignore me? It'd clearly be better for you, if I'm just a hateful troll.<br />
And definitely more mature.<br />
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"It's easy to call people out and criticize, all in the name of "honesty", but it's far harder to actually provide constructive advice as to what someone who is so clearly hurting should do."<br />
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Well yes, you are clearly hurting. Because of what you have done to yourself. It's all in your head, not in the people around you. In your stories I see pain but also pretension and it looks like you bear a grudge against almost everyone.<br />
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There never is the same advice for everyone. If you want it, buy yourself a book about building up self-esteem but I assure you, it'd be senseless. Even psychologists don't give "advice", they point out mistakes, so that a patient can see which of his behavior patterns are wrong. It really teaches humility. Don't try to say, you have lots of it-you wouldn't have such a strong need to protect your pride/ego in such case. <br />
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That's it. I won't say anything more, because I don't see a point it doing that. You look like an intelligent person, so I thought you'd learn something seeing yourself through someone else's eyes. Everything has it's own time and it looks like you'll have to suffer with your neurotic self longer till you realize something. Hopefully, your life doesn't become totally ruined before this can happen.<br />
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By the way...You clearly didn't remove my old comment by mistake. Why would you then do the same also with my gesture? Can something like this not be done deliberately...?<br />
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Ah, if you want to "defend" yourself or have a reason to see my words as just a hateful nonsense I can give you one. I've been abused and this caused me to develop a borderline personality disorder. Maybe I'm just a sad, pathetic individual that finds picking on others to be entertaining. Keep your illusions and use this all you want.

Well, thanks for the pick-me up. You really threw some sunshine down on that one. Am I looking for another "mom", no, I don't think I am. But speaking of mothers, the one that I actually DO have has shown nothing BUT unconditional love for me in my life, so that theory of yours holds little water. Is it true for ALL mothers? No, of course not, and I'm sorry for those whose mothers did NOT love them unconditionally. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know you meant "romantic" love. Yadda, yadda, yadda. My point still holds, though. <br />
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I'm not looking for sunshine blown up my ***, despite what you may think. However, trying to elicit a response from someone for your own amusement by questioning their "manhood" isn't exactly proper Queensberry Rules. And yet here I respond...*sigh*. <br />
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It's easy to call people out and criticize, all in the name of "honesty", but it's far harder to actually provide constructive advice as to what someone who is so clearly hurting should do. "Just grow up". Hmmmm, ok, shall I water myself and bask in the sunlight or should I bid Never-Neverland adieu? I have yet to understand what it is about me and my stories that rubs you the wrong way so much and gives me the prestigious honor of your brand of "tough love". Do you see me as a "project", some kind of an emotionally crippled Eliza Doolittle? Fine...The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. There. That's better. Thank you. I mean, if I knew you genuinely meant well, then by all means, say what you want to say. I WANT to hear it. However, there is that fine line between offering a valid, if albeit coarse, opinion and piling on someone for no other reason than a perceived weakness that needs to be ridiculed. <br />
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And I don't intend to attack you either, I'M only being honest, because in my opinion it's way better than...you know...what you said.

Looks are a factor but only at the beginning blah blah blah *insert typical "don't worry" talk*...<br />
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Now seriously. Why do you want to be in a relationship? Yup, it's natural to want it, but what do you expect from it.? Do you think you can equally take and give?<br />
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People with problems attract persons of their kind and what does it result in? Double misfortune. It's a long known psychological fact, so there's no point in arguing about this. I don't intend to attack you, I' m only honest, because in my opinion it's way better than a fake sweet talk. What can you offer to a woman? Love...so what does it mean? Can you support her, when you can't even help yourself? It has to work both sides, in other case it's not a relationship but living off someone. There's no unconditional love in real life. I'm a product of something like this and at least I have no illusions.<br />
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You may be intelligent, funny, nice but you're not a man. You're still just a boy that looks for a mom that would take care of him. For someone who would help him deal with what he's going through. You're the only person that can help you, no one from the outside can be your strength. It's not fair, but life is never fair. It's time you start growing up as a person.

Possibly, but unfortunately we can't live here on EP. Sometimes I wish it were so, though.

here, for example?