My Recent Experiences Of Debates Turning Into Arguments

Lol I know. I'm feeling negative about it right now. I just had a nasty Youtube experience so when I talk about the raped as a child comment, someone actually just said that to me. That place is chalk full of trolls with nothing good to say.

I posted questions about this in a blog yesterday. Do you think people behave that way because they can say whatever they want anonymously?

Yeah, I kinda think that's usually the case. I find that people aren't nearly as openly judgmental when they can see your reaction on your face or read your body language. Maybe then they would actually feel guilty if they offended you. Maybe not too. Maybe it also has to do with distance. If they feel like you can't hurt them or taint their image, they will say anything they want. I also think that for me, some of it is that I have never encountered real conflict in a real world situation. I don't meet many people in the real world whose opinions are soo soo different from mine that we can't agree or even just agree to disagree lol.

My work puts me in conflict situations several times a week. How would you behave if you believed there were no consequences for your behavior.

Haha it's really hard to answer that. I've been raised in a family that debates anything and everything, but I've always been acutely aware of the consequences. I think it is mostly just part of my personality to dislike conflict, but at the same time I have a thirst for information so it seems like conflict is inevitable. I'd like to think though that I would still be fairly respectful. If I know that the consequence might be causing someone to contemplate suicide, I would never say it. If I thought it would damage a person, I wouldn't say it. There are always consequences of some kind in my mind. Asking a question like that, to me, is like asking what I would do in a hostage situation if I had the choice to either kill a family member to save myself or offer my life for theirs. You would like to think that you would take a bullet for a loved one, but how do you know how you would really act in a situation like that. I find it difficult therefore, to imagine what it would be like to believe that there were no consequences. Do you think that's why people say such horrible things? They really don't believe that there are consequences? Also, what kind of work do you do that puts you in those situations so often?

I am a property claims adjuster. When the insurance policy covers the damage, I get them a check. When the policy doesn't cover the damage, I have to say "this is not covered." Sometimes people get irate.

I think many people, and definitely younger generation believe they should be able to live without consequences. They truly believe they should not be accountable for what they do or say. You wrote something very important; you said, "I was raised in a family." Too many your age can't say that, at least not in the traditional sense.

I could see how your job would be difficult that way. My father is the kind of person who would get angry at you. Not just the policy, like you personally. I could never understand why he feels the need to be that way because I can usually understand that it isn't the fault of the employee. I might be upset, but I wouldn't take it out on the person I was dealing with. I see your point too about the family thing. I had the privilege of having parents that were together until I was 15. You need that reinforcement in those critical years I guess. I think it's also important to be surrounded by nice people. I grew up in a very rural area where everyone knows everyone, and everyone is nice or at the very least polite. It was the kind of place where bad manners were not something you wanted. Also, everyone knew you and knew what you did yesterday, so there was no getting away with anything.

When he was growing up, every time he left the house, my great grandmother would yell out to my dad, "remember whose you are!" This is what you are saying. Back then a person's lack of proper behavior reflected on the family and the integrity of the parent who did the raising.

Now days even in rural areas (and I live in a rural area), many people just don't care how they area perceived. A sign of the times I suppose.

... and a Monty Python affectionado! Which marks you as a very intellegent woman.

Yeah, I don't know how that came about. I am tempted to say it might have to do with religion but I know that there are plenty of people who don't have a religion who are the nicest people you could ever meet. I was raised catholic, but I don't consider myself the most spiritual person ever. The only thing I can commit to is that I have no answers. I do, however, borrow my values from my catholic upbringing. I mean like do unto others as you would have them do unto you; and I like the philosophy of how being a christian means to love everyone. I guess I just cherry pick from it. I find the church to be fairly hypocritical though, which is mainly why I don't go to church. I just wonder if the lack of a concrete base of values and a reason to abide by them (heaven/hell) is the reason that people don't care. I also wonder if they just believe too that if they are not ruthless, then they will not get what they want out of life. Maybe it is mostly selfishness?

Hahaha well thanks.

I think absolutely that the corrosion of the moral foundation is at the heart of much of our trouble. You can easily parrallel the deterioration of moral fiber with the increase in lawlessness. Is it wrong to steal? Or does stealing only become wrong if you are caught stealing? To a thinking person the second question is preposterous, yet people live this way.

So, if I may ask, how is it that you find the church hypocritical?

In their opposition of gay marriage, women as priests, that kind of thing. I've also experienced times in church when the priest would talk badly about certain people who didn't go to church every Sunday. People would always act as if those people were scum or something, which I never agreed with. I did go to church every Sunday until I was about 14 or so, but I never liked how the atmosphere seemed to me like it was feigning acceptance. In my church it was always so stuffy and uptight. If you sneezed, whispered or chuckled people would give you a dirty look. Being Christian to me means to accept those people who the church would consider "sinners". It just never felt like they really did. Those that I've met who say they do often try to force their religion on others. I just don't think that's fair. I see how others find comfort in the church and would find it helpful, but I don't feel it holds much for me. Perhaps I'm being immature, I don't know. Maybe later on in life I'll find something of value there, and if I do I'll go back to that.

So the experiences that have shaped your thinking are specifically in the Roman Catholic church?

Did you know that once you post you can't modify?

There are I think a lot of misconceptions and wrong-headed ideas about Christianity.

Yeah, I hate that you can't edit things. Also, yes my experiences have very much been shaped by the Roman Catholic Church. What kind of misconceptions do you mean?

Church, God, the Bible and things associated seem to invite a lot of pseudo-intellectualism. I have pondered for many years what the true expression of the church should be. I am not Roman Catholic, and most of the church organizations do ordain women. God hates sin. Pure and simple. It's in the book (Bible) God says in one passage, "Pride, I hate". However, God does not hate sinners. His stated will is that, "none should perish". People think that there are things that God prohibits just to be mean. But He knows the outcomes of our ways. If God said not to do it, there is a reason. People who are most vocal in their opposition to the Bible have never read it, those who are anti God generally have a flawed concept of Him... a concept that the usually didn't learn in church.

Most of the church organizations I have been associated with... ordain women.

I know that the Pope proclaimed that women shouldn't be ordained though. I don't know a lot about other religions really, but it seems to me that Catholicism is one of the most stuffy and old fashioned ones. I had friends when I was younger who were Baptist and their Church was much more open and informal which I liked. I also feel the need to question the accuracy of the bible considering how long it's been around and all the corruption in the church during medieval times. It seems crazy to me that through all that, nothing was changed or adapted to fit the times or motives of less honest people. I also tend to have a problem having absolute faith that everything that is said is true. I guess that makes me a bit like Thomas lol. I don't think that you should be called a sinner because you need more to rely on than written words from thousands of years ago. Anyone could have written them for all we know. I have a battle going on inside me between my need for some kind of spirituality and my need for some kind of logical explanation. It seems to make sense to me though that perhaps religion was something that humans just needed to make up to cope with the idea of death. We are, after all, probably the only species that is aware of the inevitability of our demise. Death is a very hard thing to wrap your head around if you are forced to imagine that there is no afterlife. A scary thought. That's why I could never be a true Atheist. It's funny to me though, how there wasn't one group of humans on earth that I'm aware of that didn't believe in some greater power or inexplicable force. That is one of the reasons why I never understand how some people seem to be able to tell me with complete certainty and faith that they know what will happen when they die. I feel like that requires a person to block out all other possibilities and ignore everything else. Who can really say for sure whose religion is the "right" one. Perhaps nobody is right. Ohhhh there are just too many questions for me. I can see how this topic is a tricky one to discuss with people without causing offence. I already did that to my Dad I think. He told me I was being immature. My head is spinning now lol. Forgive me if I've offended you in any way. I don't intend to bash anyone's beliefs.

Not offended... a question. Who would you believe?

Well, I have to say. I am slightly more comfortable thinking about the logical route. It might be because I find it extremely interesting. I think though that the fact that I have any doubt at all must mean that deep down I do believe in a higher power. I like the idea of reincarnation, but I couldn't imagine switching religions. I was raised Catholic so I guess I believe in heaven and hell. I always have that nagging feeling like what if I'm wrong and I'll go to hell for this lol. I have to say that the idea of that guides my decisions a lot of the time. Anyway, this is very wordy. Mainly i'm still just trying to figure out the answer to that question. Do you have an answer that you're always comfortable with?

Yeah... Christianity and reincarnation don't mesh, the book tells us that, "It is appointed... once to die, and after that the judgement."

Looking at you concern about the authenticity of the Bible and it's accuracy when compared to the original. First, consider that there are more original and ancient manuscripts of the Bible than any other ancient writing, and it isn't even close. There are over 5,000 Bible manuscripts, the next closest is some of Homer's writing and less than 1,000 of those exist today. Consider that the Greek translation of the Old Testament was completed at least 200 years b.c.; the quantity of ancient manuscripts and the pervasive nature of the translations insure that it would be impossible to make any substantive change. To actually change the content of the Bible would require that every original manuscript and prior translationa be found and destroyed. It would be humanly impossible. To further underscore the point, the dead sea scrolls were found in 1947 in a cave where that had been sealed since the 1st century a.d.; careful study of these ancient scrolls find no change in what was a nearly complete old testament.

Most of the new testament was originally letters that were written to individuals or groups and copied many times over and circulated among early churches. The same problem applies; too many copies and the canon has been established for far too many centuries for anyone to make arbitrary changes.

I don't want to drone on until you are bored to tears...

...and I didn't even mention the Vulgate, which is the Latin translation of the old and new testaments completed about 400 a.d.

Whoa, you did your research haha. What about the authenticity of what people actually wrote? Also, what about literal vs. metaphorical meanings? I always think people take the bible too literally sometimes. There are always people it seems who like to use it as an excuse to do bad things, like the crusades and whatnot. There is also the fact that there are other religions that are even older than Catholicism and who knows how many religions there were that have not been rediscovered or that didn't have writings. What about their writings? Have you ever studied world religions? I think I might like to do that actually. It would be interesting. I swear if I could be in school my whole life I would be.

It is and has always been important to me to know what I believe and why I believe it.
It is very important to be ready to give a reason for what you believe.
YES! Over the centuries some bad things have happened in the name of Christianity. That does not in any way mitigate truth.

Organized world religions fall into three categories;
Polytheism - the worship of many gods.
Pantheism - everything is god.
Monotheism - there is one god.
---- This is important ----
All religions are mutually exclusive. Christianity gets the wrap all the time as being closed minded and intolerant. But in what alternate reality does Islam accept other ideas or beliefs? The Koran explicitly says that anyone who does not observe the way of Islam is an infidel. Hinduism does not accept anything outside of it's belief system
World religions fall into three

Sorry... I couldn't make that last line go away...

Lol no big deal. Seeing as Christianity has the largest percentage of people out of all the religions I can see why people would focus on it more. You're right though, it isn't the only religion that is sort of closed minded.

I could share with you a great deal more, and you could accept it... or not.

How does God reveal Himself today?

You seem to have a pretty strong faith. Have you always had that? If so, how?

Yes... and no. My dad was a pastor throughout my growing up. But that is certainly no guarantee as to how a person will act or believe. I was young but was influenced by the Jesus movement that continued through the 70's.
Ironically I never questioned God or the existence of God until my second year of Bible School. I found my self very angry and confused. It seems like at that point many people shrug their shoulders and walk away. I began to seriously try to work through my issues. Very simply asked God to reveal Himself. Jeremiah 29:13 says He can be found. I found an absolute assurance of the reality of God. Not a higher power, but convinced in my heart and in my mind of the unquestionable reality of the one true and living God. There have been times when my commitment have fallen short of what it certainly should be, but that does not diminish the reality of God.
My struggle with the church is another matter. I am an active part of my local church, yet I still believe it falls short of what it should be. That does not however excuse me from the need to participate with the local church. I recommend a place where the a living faith in the Living God is observed.
---this is important----
The are hypocrites who profess godliness. If there is a hypocrite standing between you and God, who is closer to God? You? Or the hypocrite?