Buddy Can Ya Spare A Nickel?

I promised myself that I would not become embroiled in a political argument or discussion with fellow EP'ers who merely espouse an alternative point of view. It quickly unravels to a full-scale thermonuclear exchange.

I need to write about the pretty color I selected for my nails this morning, snuggling with my dogs, observations throughout the day however mundane, hype the feelings I have about interactions and everything erotic, and wax philosophic about dinner tonight (will it be meatball subs or the thin crust "Everything" at Island Pizza) and be oh so chic about it.

Speaking of pizza, here's one douche that will never see a nickel of mine. 

Implementing universal healthcare and controlling costs  . . . like they do with ease in every other westernized country . . . has come under intense fire and scrutiny in the U.S., even branded an evil socialist initiative. CEO of major companies have said they will lay off people and cut back on employee hours if they have to implement ObamaCare, which will  . . . they say . . . burden them with additional costs and render them un-competitive.

Here's the outspoken owner of Papa John's pizza, a national chain, who's been very vocal about the subject. Turns out health care benefits could be had by Papa John employees for about a nickel more a pizza or the cost of a single promotion.

Papa John's Obamacare Costs Are Far Less Than Price Of Free Pizza Giveaway 

News flash to Papa John’s CEO John Schnatter: Obamacare isn’t the only thing costing your business money.

The pizza chain head has made his views on the Affordable Care Act clear in recent months, claiming the new health care law will cost his business about $5 to $8 million per year. To compensate Schnatter's said he will likely raise pizza prices and cut back some workers’ hours so he doesn’t have to insure them.

Caleb Melby of Forbes has graciously done the math on Obamacare’s cost to Papa John’s and according to his analysis, to cover the cost of Obamacare, the pizza chain would have to raise prices by 3.4 to 4.6 cents per pie -- way less than the 11 to 14 cents Schnatter claims he needs.

And there are other changes the chain could make to save some money, Melby notes, like not giving away 2 million pizzas for free at a cost of between $24 and $32 million to the company, for example.

We're guessing Obamacare won't impact life at Schnatter's lavish home, a 40,000 square-foot mansion in a tony suburb of Louisville, Kentucky, that features several swimming pools, a private golf course and a 22-car garage among other amenities, according to

“Who would’ve imagined pizza could build this," said former presidential candidate Mitt Romney earlier this year. This is really something. Don’t you love this country? What a home this is, what grounds these are, the pool, the golf course…. This is a real tribute to America, to entrepreneurship."

The owner of 40 New York-area Applebee’s franchises told Fox Business last week that he wouldn’t hire any new workers and would be cutting back the hours of some of his current employees as a result of Obamacare. Applebee’s parent company distanced itself from his statements as the company faced backlash over his comments.Schnatter is just one of many company heads using Obamacare as an excuse to make changes at his company.Murray Energy's CEO laid off 160 workers the Wednesday following President Obama’s reelection, claiming his company was in “survival mode” due to regulations and taxes Obama put in place. The reality: the coal industry, of which Murray Energy is a part, is in decline thanks in large part to a recent influx of natural gas into the U.S., according to the Washington Post.

One super-rich CEO backed down from his threat to downsize if Obama was reelected. David Siegel, the CEO of Westgate Resorts and the man who tried to build the biggest house in America, said that he actually gave his workers raises in the wake of Obama’s win. In the lead up to the election, Siegel sent his employees an email warning them to vote for Romney or else.

HootieBootieInLuv HootieBootieInLuv 26-30, F 34 Responses Nov 14, 2012

Your Response


Wow ... I been wonderin where you went. Gotta say you're lookin buff ... tossin aside all the fear pitched at you.

I didn't even go half through this when you posted it - I'd read it earlier, and went through the comments at the Huff, if I recall. But damn you been busy here girl ... even got dudes posin as dead soap opera stars.

Our health care 'system' sucks ... ranked like 22nd in the world by most estimates. The quality of care CAN be without peer at times ... too bad many who live here can only dream of using it - as is. How can that be? How can Canadians flood our borders(not that they do - more birther-level myth) when many of us can't afford it?

Probably because there are only 3 countries left with greater wealth disparity than the US. That hurts ... to type that. But after some time looking at it, I think the numbers are pretty accurate. And when I see one man who sees fit to live in a 40,000 ft home with a golf course and multiple pools ... while his employees go without healthcare ... a man who would cut their hours rather than move to a sensible home ... no wonder these folks are scared Kathryn. They're scurryin round the table fightin for crumbs. They're worried if you don't stay quiet, they'll lose the crumbs too.

"The problem is there is nothing to revolt to."

This is the biggest steaming pile of fear left to feed. Revolt need not be clubs & pitchforks. Revolt will be truth ... education ... the gradual silencing of the shrill screams of fear from the Laura Hortons. Pointing out simple facts - like a system where more are insured for an extra quarter on your Friday night pizza - is one of the simplest layman methods there is. Good on you, Kathryn. Stay busy.

You're off a bit Hillbilly. The U.S. wishes it was ranked #22 in providing healthcare to its citizens. The World Health Organization puts the U.S. at #37, immediately ahead of Slovenia but behind our tiny Central American neighbor, Costa Rica.

Of course the World Health Organization is the healthcare arm of the United Nations and good folks like Laura Horton who find the U.N. part of the still very active far-reaching tentacles of the Communist Party will say its mission is subversive (as is it's mission to mitigate and eliminate Yellow Fever and to inoculate third-world children).

The WHO earned a little of that criticism - to be fair. Failing to factor out items like traffic fatalities and murder in determining life expectancy, and then weighting life expectancy at something like 25% of the 'value' of a healthcare system would be just one of them. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't consider traffic fatalities or gang violence a result of a health care system. The US ranking would climb substantially if these adjustments were made in that 2000 study. Truth and fact - whichever direction they lead - are vital.

We're lucky, over here in the UK....our whole concept is "Healthcare for all", and I really don't understand any country that doesn't adhere to that. Companies, of course, offer private healthcare....which gives you the same kinds of treatment, only a bit quicker...

A healthy person is a happy person; a happy person is a productive person. It's a no-brainer to me. Respect your employees and you'll get so much more for your investment....

People are, unfortunately, people. Some people are only happy when they're miserable....only happy when they have something to moan about....

Martika xx

Thank you Martika. "Healthcare for all." Why not? Why not for a nickel more a pizza (4.2 cents) to insure every single employee in a national restaurant chain?

When my family visited London and I was a trouble making eight year old I got my thumb caught in a hotel door. Long story short: I got the ride to a city hospital, taken immediately, x-rayed, bandaged, tears wiped and my father told his insurance was no good . . . the cost was $20 is something ridiculously cheap like that. No red tape. No time spent filling out forms and getting approvals from the third-party leech insurance company. Zero red tape and bureaucracy. Streamlined, efficient with professional services at every level.

That's not the way it is in the States.

crappy pizza too. not sure bout the rest of the country but local 'Za is better than pre-fab, cardboard-crust made with the skimpiest of ingredients. "Island Pizza" here knows when we're coming, doesn't wear idiot blue and red uniforms with train conductor caps, and spins a made-on-the-spot sausage and meatball pie with gobs of real mozzarella (vs. the engineered cheese of the chain restaurants). Perfectly sized; two slices for me (one and a half) and six (plus) for my fiance. *burp*

That is like dee and me.. Two for her the rest for meeeeeee!

Don't his points also point out the flaw in the idea that employers should simply realise it makes good business sense to take care of their workers? For large-scale, unskilled, minimum-wage operations that just isn't the case. They save money if they pay people nothing and treat them like crap, and they find it incredibly easy to replace them when they leave. Adding any benefit they don't legally have to shaves pennies off their profit margin which give their competitors an edge over them, which in the buyers' market of cheap fast-food can seriously hurt them.<br />
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Unless it's a level playing field. If every single business has to pay a certain cost, it ceases to affect their competitiveness. If there's a minimum wage, they don't have to worry about other businesses hiring cheaper labour (not legally, that is); if there are fines for not meeting minimum standards of health and safety then saving money by running an unsafe work environment becomes a false economy. Seems to me that the same applies to healthcare.

Indeed Mr. Smith, Mr. Hurt, these are all considerations when pondering the bottom line. A hundred years ago safety changes within mining operations and sunup to sunset working days were the norm as greedy owners lined their pockets with blood-soaked pennies.

But there are more than ethical consideration. I wonder as someone suggested if a healthy worker is more productive? Would the investment into a work force even if they are transient pay dividends to offset that nickel a pizza? Certainly a loyal and satisfied person is better than the alternative.

My dad played a role in bringing a handheld computing/bar code scanning solution to the aisles of a major retailer. Those workers who diligently changed prices, performed inventories, ordered merchandise, received it and shipped it in the back room and other labor -intensive applications were suddenly given a technology tool to make their jobs easier. The intangible results were startling after a single year. There were far less days off for sickness, a remarkable increase in job satisfaction and, adjusted for the new technology, to a person each worker was more productive.

We used to have unions to keep from exploiting workers. So much for that.

Destroyed in the flames of greed and the perverse thinking that coddling and giving more to those who have it all will share in the wealth they pass down.

Kt.. you are going to make a commie out of me yet! I agree with you more often than I disagree, you know.

Mark.. yeah I live by the port of l.a. and the doc workers are going on strike: "The clerks make average salaries of $41 an hour, or about $87,000 a year. They also receive pensions and several weeks of vacation a year. Their health insurance is fully paid and includes zero doctor co-pays, giving them among the best salary and benefits packages of any blue-collar workers." Now in a way I am all for it, but at the same time it seems wildly unfair, when juxtaposed with most American jobs these days. It is funny how the pendulum swings as the union was originally born out of truly low paying jobs under very dangerous conditions. It just seems no matter what things can never stay balanced.

CC, you've sunk to new lows . . . the angry, frustrated, curmudgeonly republican who vehemently complains about welfare mothers and food stamp users a blight and a burden because he heard from his neighbor down the street that some welfare mom showed up at the govt benefit office in a Cadillac.

Heard from someone, who heard it from his drug dealer that "clerks are making $41 an hour" so, ergo, unions are a festering blight. Get rid of all of them.

Nope, you're never going to be a commie. You can sleep easy and not think about all the good unions have done to bring about important changes in the workplace and be a mouthpiece against companies that have mistreated workers.

Are you being sarcastic Kt? Did I say unions are a blight? I also don't ever recall complaining about welfare mothers? You lost me.

"It is funny how the pendulum swings as the union was originally born out of truly low paying jobs under very dangerous conditions. " Seems to me CC was entirely fair about how unions operate. What they provide is a voice for workers in how their industry is run, which is important. But like any power bloc, they need to be checked or they'll grab as much power for their members as they can get away with. Without unions, management can run amok. With unions, ideally the two balance each other out, but realistically either side will occasionally be able to hold the other to ransom.

The point dear Cop is that you can't cross blot out the good of unions past and present just 'cause you heard a story about clerks making a ton of money probably because their unions have held a gun to the head of some frightened company. My point about welfare moms was one of connection. Folks whine and complain about unfair payouts to the poor and needy because they once heard about a welfare mom that cheated the system.

And yes, Fukker, I am being sarcastic, heavy and thick like molasses pouring from a jar.

I think you got me mixed up with one of your other conservative leaning friends.

oh the urges I am feeling.....must.......control....................

Oh GT unzip and let it fly. Your tongue that is. Wait, that didn't sound right either.

Gt help.. Kt is bullying me again.

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Here in Ireland we don't have the full end to end health care they have in the UK but even so Health is by far the single biggest budget something like one in every four government spent Euros goes on it. The debate you are having is a good thing because once given this becomes a right and you can never back out of it.

In Ireland if you can afford it you have private health insurance if not you go public. Older people and people on reduced incomes get different levels of free services, prescriptions, GP visits etc. All children's hospital health care is free.

There are many like me who have private health insurance but because they don't like spending 60 euro on the GP avoid them, while others who have GP medical cards go all the time and the government picks up the bill. Predictably it ends up being the middle class who carry the burden, they pay this price to ease their own conscience that health care is there for those who need it, and yet in the media there is an incessant liberal wailing for more and better services.

If you look back to the 1920,30,40, and even into the 50's in Europe when the political revolutions of universal suffrage, the first welfare states came in, bringing old age pensions, dole, health care and so on; It is not understatement to say Europe was on the verge of revolution. The political, industrial and military elites had led the European people into two pointless massively destructive wars, poverty was endemic; Some countries went to the extreme right some to the extreme left, all experience some degree of revolution. You could say the chaos of that phase ended only with the Berlin wall coming down in 1992.

As global markets stagnate in a way eerily reminiscent of the 20's. and once more unemployment tips towards 20 percent in Spain and other countries, and the money to appease the peasants has been reinvested in the East, one wonders what will happen. Real revolutions only happen when the middle classes get involved maybe this will happen when the UK (as government revenue recedes) cannot pay for the colossal health service it funds who knows. The problem is that there is nothing to revolt to, there are no viable philosophical political alternatives only chaos and anarchy.

During the phase we are coming into to social stability will be a critical factor and the question is how do you ensure this. In the case of Ireland we run an annual budget deficit of 10 billion; partially because our citizens have gotten uses to a certain level of comfort which in fact we have to borrow to maintain. We have a limited amount of time and credit to fix this. Some hard political decisions need to be made and some difficult realities faced both here and I suspect in the US.

Perfect description E, especially to us Americans who truly have to search out any news of value let alone even a sniff of something outside of the 50 states. I bet the majority of Americans couldn't come close pointing out Ireland on a globe.

Not the point. Healthcare is. It's a disgrace that the nation which loudly claims to be the greatest, wealthiest, protector of the globe can't even provide decent healthcare to the masses.

Imagine if you will a young family which can't even afford to pay the massive, growing, out of control insurance premiums? So to with the unemployed. So to with seniors.

What's even more striking to me . . . I'm truly baffled . . . that a mom from Texas replied with gusto on this string criticizing Obama Care (as the initiative is known) even though in the same paragraph describes how she can't afford healthcare because her mortgage is a priority. They're into alternative treatments. Imagine if something catastrophic hit and they're turned away from hospitals and healthcare providers?

Great post. Thank you. Need more time on Freud's sofa.

glad to see you on the couch anytime

The catastrophic illness risk is not illusory. I had a cousin who was diagnosed with cancer while he was "between jobs" (a rather frequent status in his life) and uninsured. He tried Laetrille (sp?) treatments as it was all he could afford. He died.

"The problem is that there is nothing to revolt to, there are no viable philosophical political alternatives only chaos and anarchy." Alternatives begin to present themselves when people start looking for them. If people get really fed up they'll start voting for far-right fringe parties (the UK always seems dangerously on the brink of this, but realistically it looks like it's a long way off). People who have no experience in government but just know they don't trust "foreigns" and benefits are for *******.

That's the reality dear Stoner and it seems to be perfectly acceptable by a political party which believes a government should have no part in the health, well being and destiny of an individual.

Reality again, Mr. Orwell. The people will be fed up and take action, even pampered, overweight Americans, when good health care is only affordable and directed to the wealthy and an ever shrinking minority. The Michael Moore movie "Sicko" points out the outrageousness of the American healthcare system and includes a scene where he sponsors a slow boat to Cuba, 90 miles off the coast of Miami and a poor nation, with half a dozen Americans on board who have been refused or can't afford healthcare on our shores.

I don't have anything much to add, but I'm curious to see how long you can keep coming up with new nicknames :P

Until you raise your shirt, Mr. Hurt, so I can see the nasty scar from the alien bursting scene you did in '79 in the original "Alien."

really Katie how inappropriate is that

..everyone knows how they got that shot.

Two seconds worth. I hope it plays in places over the pond.

That was a long time ago. I'm playing the voice of a dragon now.

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I have a master's degree. Already took it. And you are indeed an ignorant and arrogant ***. I've not seen a lick of proof for anything put out by you liberals here at all that doesn't tie into a liberal group. Snopes is mentioned on here. What a joke? Find out who runs Snopes if you want a laugh. Problem is you people believe your own nonsense. Have a good life and enjoy the bounty of your choices. I'm going to enjoy watching all of you choke on them and then ***** about it constantly.......and blame G.W. Bush.

No, the problem is that you think a masters is an excuse for not learning what you are talking about before you talk. Even people with a masters can be ignorant, as you have amply proved.

Excuse me, I didn't realize I was addressing geniuses here. More like morons.

Liberalism truly is a mental illness. Rather than being sucked down the no-brain drain here, I'll end my posts on this topic. Everyone believes what they want to believe. The game of hate and division is all liberals understand. So be it. Smile on the way to hell folks.

Not very kind and forgiving of you dear Laura. Perhaps a good spanking over the knees will stifle and soothe? But one parting shot. I can't resist. Snopes is run by the husband and wife team, Barbara and John Mikkelson I believe. Mr. Mikkelson is a registered Independent having recently switched allegiance from the Republican Party. His wife is a Canadian citizen. According to third parties (not Fox), it's an unbiased source.

"Everyone believes what they want to believe. The game of hate and division is all liberals understand." The hypocrisy..... it BURNS...

Laura: I will be less kind than others. You are simply wrong and patently have not done the work to understand what you are talking about.

There is no such thing as an unbiased source, only unbiased in your own biased mind. None of this matters. Things have been set in motion. I am in the process of moving assets out of the country, with myself, hopefully, soon to follow. I don't want to wallow in what is becoming a third world country at an exponential rate of speed.

Funny, watching PBS evening news yesterday and the Wall Street pundits point to several positive trends and bright news that the economy is on an upward trajectory. Other great news I just know you'll appreciate: Think it was a Gallup poll but one that sampled a large slice of the voting public: Hillary Clinton is the overwhelming choice for president in '16 at this point with 57 percent of the group.

That makes me feel even better about my decision. You are totally ignorant of economics if you think Obama can keep printing phony money at a rate that increases the debt by over a trillion a year (that is from Congressional Budget Office by the way) and not destroy the value of the dollar. Again, study history and you'll see what happens. Liberals..............I'm glad to leave all of you behind.

Unfortunately, Laura, trying to show an Obama supporter the truth is like trying to pick up a piece of excrement by the clean end. It simply can't be done because they have been indoctrinated from the time they were children. Not necessarily to support Obama, but to expect the government to take care of them. They haven't been taught how to think for themselves. It's much easier to close your mind and base all their thinking on what they see in the news, or on blogs like Huffington Post. Instead of seeking out the whole truth and making their decision based on all of the facts, they insist on making crucial decisions based on the half-truths they have been spoon fed since adolescence. Unfortunately, they have grown to the point where they outnumber us.

Yes they have, which is why I'm preparing to leave before they enact laws preventing me from taking my money out of the country. As soon as my house sells, I am gone and the liberals can take this place down in flames as they are determined to do. I think they actually believe the B.S. they spout out, which leads me to the conclusion that there is no longer any hope of reviving the U.S. It is gone forever, but I don't have to go with it. I'm retired and secure and I can leave.

Unfortunately, I don't have that option. Instead, I'll be doing everything I can to shield myself and my family from the effects of the choices of 51% of this country.

Most of my friends are the same way. I'm worried about a male friend even perhaps comitting suicide.....he is so depressed.

Laura: I will be even less kind than the civil-tongued (and silver-tongued) HStoner: You mentioned that you were moving your funds off shore and would soon follow to avoid seeing the U.S. slip into "third world status." Please look into tomorrow's flights. They have a special price for grouches and a special flight for those who don't see or think clearly.

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It is not the cost of the pizza or the Denny's food. It is the principle. The government has no right by the US Constitution to force the people of the United State of America to purchase health care. The Government is the source of the problem. There is not one program that the governments does and does efficiently. Weather it be the Armed services, IRS, DOT etc. The government has no reason to be efficient and spend wisely because it is not their money. They have to steal it from the American People first. The more money the American people allow the government to have the more they will waste and the more they will spend. This Obamacare debate is NOT about health care. It is about control.

uh oh, you're here. with a rational comment as well.

Only stay quiet for so long. Just my latest rate increase notification thanks to Obama care. It was only 20% this year. I'm glad he fixes our health care system. The cost have only gone up

The Federal Government does, expressly have the power to require people to buy health insurance through both the taxing power and Congress's plenary power to regulate anything affecting interstate commerce. Go back and read the Constitution. It creates a strong Federal government. Then go back and read the short, ugly history of the Articles of Confederation, which the Constitution replaced, and you should understand why the Founding Fathers wanted a strong Federal government.

The problem with healthcare is that there are too many people, not involved with delivering care, who get a chunk from the dollar between the time it leaves the patient and before it reaches a doctor, nurse, hospital, or clinic. In the main, those people who make profit but add no value are called for-profit health insurers. Amazingly, the Blues started, and thrived, for decades as a non-profit risk pool, until someone saw an opportunity to make a profit.

Both points regarding the founding fathers and a significant reason for risings costs are insightful and important. But then again I knew you could take a half step back from the arguing and see the big picture.

For which the EP vilification is likely. I admire people like you who study, learn about an issue, and then speak.

Liberals can only call a conservative I said, liberalism is a mental illness and you cannot argue with someone who isn't sane.

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I don't know what your sources are, but this made me both upset and happy.
I am a proud supporter of our President and I love Pappa Johns pizza. My son worked there as his first job and became manager eventually. To think that he is say this bull about the price of Obamacare is outrageous. The other CEOs that you quote I don't know about them, but this is clearly a republican movement to try to make people distrust this new Obamacare policy and law.
I know for some it will be a hardship. I would have had a hard time paying it as a single mom, but I used county services and never paid anything for my nor my sons health care during that time. Now people who do not pay for the insurance will be charged a fee for using county services. Or so I understand.

It's a news article that was posted online. It's really very simple. By boosting the price of pizza a mere nickel, Papa Johns can offer healthcare to all of its employees. This is a fellow, the owner, who lives on an outlandish property and a flamboyantly wealthy lifestyle. Good for him. He's a success. To me, though, it's despicable when faced with such a simple decision he decides to keep that nickel for himself.

No, actually whether they use county services or not, they will be charged an additional tax if they don't have insurance. So if you can't afford insurance due to not earning enough to pay your bills, taxes, buy groceries and other necessities, you're going to go ahead and not buy insurance, only to find that when you file your taxes, you have an additional bill in the form of an additional tax that you have to pay. Seems fair.

As far as I am concerned (much as I hate the Medicare levy on my wage) If you do not have a minimum base line of care for all Citizens you cannot claim to be an advanced Country. Now I'll step back and let it splatter where it may!!

yea we need a whole separate site for political exchange. doing it here makes it seem like the real world and who needs that? what color are your nails this week, dear?

A settling voice. Thank you. Why do I do this over and over? Not unlike banging my head against the wall. I'm wearing my brand new favorite, Le Vernis Rouge Carat from Chanel.

Mmmmm nice. So, i guess you do it because part of you likes it? Or at least because ofpart the nice feeling that comes from stopping the beating of cranium against obstruction.

I would waste or spend energy just to make the little red one go away. I am not interested in arguing with liberal green nutz who have been hypnotized to repeat the montras of the popular press. thank you.

If anyone is getting laid off due to the company being rendered uncompetitive, it is probably more to do with the CEO's actions and their poor business practices turning off informed people like yourself from purchasing a product from a company run by a moron who really couldnt give a damn about his employees if he is threatening to lay them off over this.

I wouldnt be turned off from buying a pizza even if it was Schnatter's claim of 11-14 cents more expensive...and don't know anyone who would either. I know several people who would be turned off from buying pizza from a company which has unethical business practices, even if it was the cheapest pizza in the world.

Less than a nickel a pizza and all of Papa John's employees are covered by healthcare.

right, and evidently their previous business model was to not provide healthcare in order to be competitive (i'm guessing)...If they can't provide a pizza which is competitive without having to jeopardize their employees' lives in the process, then maybe they shouldn't be least not in America anyways. That's what I love about this country :)

Show the math and prove this absurdity.

Love it as more and more companies lay people off and reduce working hours of others. They they are going to have to purchase Obamacare anyway or have the IRS in their back pocket. You cannot stop free enterprise from protecting itself and government doesn't create just takes away. I'm amazed at how many people haven't gotten an, wrong. The schools don't do that anymore.

yeah, i agree with Laura. Everyone is stupid except for her :)

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Obamacare is going to bankrupt the country; they are already stealing $800 Million from Medicare to pay for it. This nation cannot afford it and by the time the government is done printing enough almost worthless currency to cover the mess, everyone will realize it. Of course it will be to late to patch the tire by then.

Bullshiit. This is Romney and Ryan double talk. They lost.

No. You lost. You just haven't figured it out yet........but you will shortly.

The people spoke. They don't want rising, out of control health costs, nearly 25 percent of the entire population uncovered by the security blanket of insurance coverage, the fear of losing coverage because of a job change, and a broken system run by insurance companies. The American people want what every other westernized country in the world already has and has rejected the fear-mongering conservatives who still mutter "socialism" to fewer and fewer who will listen.

Ask someone from Canada or Britain what they think of their socialized healthcare system. Europe is under destruction by socialism, if you haven't noticed. The problem with socialism, as Margaret Thatcher said, is that you eventually run out of other people's money to spend.

The World Health Organization rated and ranked the national healthcare system of every country in the world. We're far behind Canada or the U.K. and all of the other westernized countries. It's not socialism nor is it free. It just makes sense. The majority of Americans are tired of conservatives crying "Wolf!" Obama won. The first step in putting in place a decent, practical healthcare system is underway. The American people have spoken.

Is Obamacare not based directly on the healthcare Romney rolled out when he was governor of Mass. If it works there why won't it work nationwide?

Then why does anyone who can afford to do so come to the USA for surgery from Canada? Because they cannot wait over a year when they have cancer. Learn instead of spouting liberal nonsense. Obamacare isn't going to make it. Almost every state is taking steps to not implement it at the state level. I suggest you move to Canada for their wonderful healthcare system.

An old friend of mine said it best, "THE MASSES ARE *****".

Read the chart cited above: healthcare, according to the World Health Organization, is significantly better in the U.K. and Canada based on their non-bias findings. Again, you quote from Romney, Ryan, Beck and Limbaugh. Again, I say, there was an election last month and the mindless conservative thinking lost as well as their agenda. You say socialized medicine; the majority of Americans say and want affordable and reliable healthcare.

Everyone will end up with neither. WHO is a U.N. organization and hardly unbiased with anything concerning the U.S. This is an entitlement nation now, where there are more people taking from the system than those putting into it. Oh yes, I forgot, Obama is going to tax wealthy Americans. Britain has lost over 50% of their wealthiest citizens due to overbearing taxes. What do you thing the wealthiest Americans are going to too? They have fled New York and are still doing so for the same reason.......that is why Rush Limbaugh moved out of New York; I mention him since you love to deride him. They will all flee the USA shortly. Then the only people left to tax will be you and your ilk. Class warfare is just mean and nasty and will not accomplish anything except ending up with more money leaving the U.S. You are convinced of your position, like most liberals. Now you can join Obama in breaking the last few bones in America's back. What do you think is going to happen to U.S. currency as he prints off trillions of dollars each year? Most people call it inflation. I suggest you study what happened to the Weimar Republic of Germany and see where these policies lead. This isn't the first time this has been done, but most people wouldn't be able to even tell you what he Weimar Republic was.

Unfounded dreams and thoughts of a future of gloom and doom is the hallmark of the whacko right. Worse, it blares out unfettered to frighten and worry. Typically as in the past there's a scapegoat, an individual or group here the hatred and ire is focussed. In this case it's a black president.

Improving the healthcare system and slowing down a run-away catastrophe that 's building toward protecting a minority of the rich. Seems like an honest problem for Americans to collectively solve. Not so with your ilk who not only scream that seniors will be executed, the lefty socialist commies are running the show, that it will drive us bankrupt (and, another lie, already sucked 800 billion from Medicare) but attack much deeper and more personally by accusing the world leader of not having a birth certificate or valid educational experience.

Indeed, sounds exactly like the Weimer Republic, 20 years later.

I'm just trying to make a point that the CEO and founder of Papa John's Pizza is a cheap scumbag. For less than a nickel a pizza he could provide healthcare to all of his employees.

You got a problem with that?

First of all, I don't have a problem with Papa John's Pizza at all. I am disabled and on a fixed income, yet I don't believe in class warfare. I don't have anything against a black president; I do have a lot against a president that is the only one in history that spent millions to keep all records about himself sealed. That, in itself, tells me the guy has a lot to hide. He holds the Constitution in contempt. Yes, you guessed it, I think he is a dirtbag. I think he doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself and he wants to destroy America as it has existed and turn it into something he has control of. He is the master of divide and conquer. Weimar Republic 20 years later was called the Third Reich, under Adolf Hitler, by the way. You need to read more.

That was exactly my point. I don't need a history lesson from you. The conservative heave and spew sounds like the Weimer Republic . . . 20 years later.

You've revealed yourself. You are in that splinter group within the crazy conservative niche which honestly believes the president has something to hide with his citizenship or college transcripts even though both have been released, announced and published again and again and again.

no college transcripts ever released, and law enforcement in arizona and hawaii proved his birth certificate was made using photoshop and by an amateur at that. you can see the different layers peeled apart on line. see informationn provied by Sherrif Arpaio in Phonenix. Experts have also proved he has a fake social security number... belongs to a dead man, probably enjoying a good laugh now. You are part of the crazy fringe, not me. None of you have ever been willing to look at a single piece of solid evidence. It is in the liberal play book, actually Alinski's playbook, to call someone that doesn't like Obama or what he stands for (himself), a "birthed" or a "racist". If you think this is going to go away, you have much to learn. You need a history lesson from somebody because you don't seem to have read any, like most of your brethren. Show me where any transcripts of ANY level of Obama's education have been published again and again and again. SHOW EVERYONE!!!!! I'm sure everyone would love to see them.

"Weimar Repubic...20 years later?" Tell us what that means. Do you know when the Weimar Republic existed and what caused its demise. Oh great and mighty history expert......was it 20 years ago?

By the way, only fools rely on Wikepedia for information. Anyone can change it. Try changing the article you just cited if not convinced of this.

I was not comparing Obamacare to the Weimar Republic, you troglodyte (I know you'll have to look it up in the dictionary). I was comparing it to the U.S. government.

Laura, it's just your and a small handful of other venomous haters, led by the certifiable crackpot Orly Taitz who still keep the Obama birth certificate fires smoldering. So says L.H.: the birth certificate was manipulated in Photoshop. Of course it must have fooled the FBI and the scrutiny of every expert on the planet. But not you. You know better. Oh wait, I forgot, the conspiracy theory. If you want, you can buy a copy of said birth certificate.... the legitimate one released by the state of Hawaii here:

BTW, my remark, "Weimer Republic 20 years later" was intentional and specific as related to your thinking. Let's see, 1919 plus 20 years in Berlin . . . .

@LauraHorton, when I see your comment, it is apparent, that it is you who do not know the facts. Please study up on what you are talking about before you post. You make yourself look foolish and not credible.

The IQ is just too low on EP to remain. Amantcul, you are an ignorant and arrogant ***. I suggest you try going to college and learn something, like how to think.

Actually I have an IQ in the top 3%, your name calling proves that you can not back up any of your arguments with facts. You resort to name calling because you lack any valid argument or point of view. I suggest it would be beneficial for you to take your own advice.

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I like your perspective. It appears to be based upon facts, however, you've failed to provide a link or other references

Ms. K, you appear to be somewhat prejudicial towards ObamaCare--why is that?

Here ya go Sir: . . . Just think the that the blustering, whining, complaining, loud-mouth, penny-pinching CEOs could provide a baseline beginning of healthcare to a majority of Americans with none and in the long run have a stronger, better and more loyal workforce for very little.

Even the currency of EP praise is subject to inflation. What is the price point of intertubes opinion? Health care is infinitely fascinating for it ultimately boils down to the dollar value of life itself. How many $ is my opinion and dialogue worth? I imagined these concepts and others related as I slurped up fettucini and cream sauce garnished with Tomales Bay Oysters and San Fran Bay Dungeness Crab Meat with my in-laws this past Thanksgiving. It's hard to find a phiolosophically consistent opinion on the subject. Who's soul is worth more: You the Wal-Mart discount shopper or him the Somalian radioacitve waste deep sea dumper? The tragedy of the commons operates everywhere and at all times.

Hmmm, I have far more respect for Somalian pirates than anything coming out of Bentonville . . . the real pirates . . . or anyone who sets foot within the aisles of their stores but that's not what your note is about. It's Tomales oysters, isn't it and being careful that the rapier birds descending from Point Reyes (or those other ore sinister birds from Bodega Bay looking for opportunity) with their ultra keen eyesight swooping at sub-sonic speed don't ****** away those world-class bivalves from their intended destination.

The gray windswept coastline at Tomales Point is a personal favorite. It satiates my anglophilia -- Is this Northern CA or the Dorset coastline? I often catch myself pointing the binoculars north toward Bodega Bay, scanning for the old schoolhouse with the rickety jungle-gym, and Tippi Hedron crossing the water, seagull in hot pursuit.;list=PL46FB178E8BEABAB8

Me thinks you and I should both see Anthony Hopkins and Helen Mirren, two fine Brit actors, in their latest. We can both lick our lips when the beautiful and brilliant Scarlett Johansen graces the screen with her blonde eminence.

I wonder if Papa John did the math on how much money he makes if his staff are healthier?

It would cost money to do research like that! Lol

By the way the closing down of coal mines has decimated the economy of several states and former coal mine families. And new closings of coal fired power will make an impact on the price of electric power. Coming soon to a community near you.. or are you totally power independent having both Solar and Wind ? Or do you depend on the electric companies like most of us ? Oh and what about the days the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow ?

All I'm saying is another 4.2 cents per pizza and all of Papa John's employees get basic healthcare.

There is a bigger picture than the pennies difference at a pizza store. You will see huge differences in how you thought it was gonna be after say about 20 14.
Then tell me about pennnies difference in pizza prices. I don't mean to be a smart azz so I apologize for being at least caustic about this. I like people usually but get a bit heated up by liberal thinking and social engineering.
Ever heard of James Carvell and his wife Mary Matlin sp ?&gt;? They are on opposite sides of the aisle on most things and have been for years and he was a Clinton staffer and has been on Sunday morning talk shows for years and she is a writer for some conservative press thing.. &gt;?&gt;? But they publically stated their love for each other on a show I listened to and it made me quite happy that people need not get angry when talking about politics. seeya have a good one. IT will get worse not better I think..

So tacking on another nickel to the price of a pizza so all employees in a major fast food chain can be covered with healthcare benefits is liberal thinking? Rules abound put in place by the government, like child labor laws, safety on the work place and minimum wages, so workers are fairly treated.

The coal industry is in decline because of the environmental wackos and the Gov't impact on allowing the closing of mining in major coal producing states not what the Washington Post's slant on that story and everything. They are in the tank of Obama.
I disagree with your slant though even though you are a good reporter.. so go write for the Post and save us your left leaning ways. Like Obamacare is a good thing.. yea right.

And when Bain Capital decimates the lives of thousand by closing a company, that's creative destruction? I investigated solar and discovered that even on a cloudy day, you can generate energy for at least 4 hours. Far as I know I haven't heard any stories about wind sources being depleted. WIth people like you around, we'll have more than enough wind to go around.

Nothing pollutes and destroys the environment more than the burning of coal. We have not done enough to explore and bring to maturity alternative sources such as wind and sun. OK, your hatred for Obama, even for investigating those alternatives, simmers over and is without reason. So, too, is your unreasonable anger for bringing healthcare and a viable, less costly solution to more Americans. Indeed, 4.5 cents a pizza is something opposed, I would imagine, by only the fringe. Bravo Penguin!

Katie, Katie, Katie......The US consumes 70% more electricity today than it did in 1970. It produces that electricity producing 80% less emissions than in 1970. Nothing pollutes more? Destroys the environment more? Have you looked at where the magnets for your windmills (which only produce on average 30% of the time) are mined in China?

The only place where there is enough wind to go around is near political centers because that is where the most wind is produced. A bit of education from someone in the industry.....There are only two kinds of electricity; base load and peak load. Base load is that load that must be there all the time. The wind does not blow all the time, nor does the sun shine all the time. Peak load is the load that is required at times such as high air conditioning demand, that period of time when people are getting home from work or getting ready to go to work and energy requirements "peak." The last I looked, our control of the weather was not at a point where we could get the wind to blow when we wanted it to or the sun to shine when we want it to.

The only answer to effective use of "renewable energy" is cost effective low life storage. Until the time that is available and until such time as adequate transmission is available to get the energy from where it is produced to where it is needed (and I am talking about renewables here), every windmill you see and every solar panel you see is nothing but "political feel good."

Do you want one of these in your back yard?
because not only do they only produce electricity at a maximum 30% of the time but they are so pretty.

Uggg, no GT. At the very least a massive wind turbine as shown would fukk up my tan.

I understand the role that coal plays in the production of energy. Of course it's not going away soon. I believe, unlike the core of the conservative party but the vast majority of scientists and the rest of the world, that our environment is being hurt by carbon emissions and the slow and steady heating that brings.

My point is we simply need to devote more to the development of alternative energy sources. No one wants a giant inverted airplane propeller thump-thump-thumping in their backyard but vast pods covering hundreds of square miles in the Pacific capturing the energy of the constant trade winds might be in the future. Look beyond today and leave your practicality which makes perfect sense this very hour at the back door.

The use of energy will never go down. That action, if it continues without mitigation and is unimpeded, will have dire consequences. We must strive for a solution with our proven ingenuity.

Now about that 4.5 cents I'm asking you (and everyone else) to shell out next time you order a pizza.

No pizza joints here except my own kitchen.....told you that before.

as far as anthropomorphic global warming, I am wondering how it is that where I am sitting right now there was once 3 miles of ice......that disappeared before industry, cars, significant population, etc....must have been those damn wooly mammoth farts.

vast majority? Thank god for Al Goracle....or we would not be having this conversation.

Oh.....and I have installed and currently manage both a 4.4KW solar array and a 10KW three phase wind.

A lack of practicality is what has ****** up the world.

I'm just echoing what science has agreed is happening. It is a problem even though the right scoffs, blames and makes fun of the Nobel Prize winning Mr. Gore. There's always a scapegoat.

I'm sure science clearly understands the slow and plodding natural change of the environment. What they cite is unnatural (and man-made) and distinct changes to the climate in the past 100+ years, accelerated recently with the emergence of non-industrial powers.

Yeah, I know it's homemade pizza in the GT household. I counter with a fresh mozzarella, clumps of thinly sliced prosciutto and oven dried tomatoes on a home made crust. Instead of coughing up a nickel to save families let's take two cents for every bottle of Beam you empty.

I'll catch you when you fall over in protest.

good liquor is good no matter the price.......

And no matter what the media tells you, it is not a settled science. You do understand that tree ring data has been manipulated because it did not fit what the "science" hoped for? For every scientist that believes there is one that does not. global warming is more religion than science. comment on the global slowing site? Or are you still digesting its relevance...lmao

Relevance? Tongue in cheek sir . . . an item prolly found on Snopes and definitely on I hope you're not comparing proven science and the opinion of the vast majority of scientists today to the zany and the crazy.

agrees with Goliathtree about global warming. It should be in the world's records for the most money made off of a theory alone.

again with the "vast majority." Sorry Katie... vastly loud and vast majority are not the same thing.

&lt;-------has a fine tongue.....even when it is in cheek.
&lt;-------has a fine recipe for tongue as well.

and I hear people talking about the glaciers melting. Seriously, have any of them noticed what happens when you put ice in a cup of water and how it changes when melted. The water level does not get higher.

Why do you believe that Affinity? You too GT? Something in your gut tells you science is wrong. It is the vast majority unless it's only Rush, Fox and the right which reaches the media in the hinterlands:

yeah, I can not stand the Japanese fuel efficient cars, I like diesel and trucks Iike Mean pick-ups and vans

Or wait....Rush contributes to Forbes right?

Nobel peace prize is a joke Kt. Henry Kissinger won it of all people! Lmao.. as tor global warming.. the world has gone through rapid cooldowns and warm up cycles since forever. There are also theories we should be going into another ice age right now but global warming and com trails are keeping us from slipping into it. Pick your poison. The truth is we don't really know.

Exactly Copper.....not a settled science.

Kathryn, many of the scientists that originally came up with the theory, retracted it due to evidence later. Due to people like Al Gore, making billions of the theory, the other theories are not evenly presented.
I don't listen to Rush or watch Fox news.

Easy to say GT. Easy to write. But truth is your opinion goes against those of the majority of science. You can't bring out Larry Bell as an expert. He's the environmental go to guy on Fox and his group takes from Koch and Exxon to spread misinformation. What we have here on the scale and balance is you and others, conservatives coincidently which zealously put big business to the forefront at all costs, and the vast majority of science and scientists on the other side.

I'll believe what science has to say and disregard, as I always have, the spew of the right wing.

Please, don't tell me that if you have a glass of water and you add several ice cubes that the level doesn't go up.

I did not say that ice cubes to not make the water go up. I was referring to what happens when the ice cubes melt.

Of course it goes up if I add ice...and the whiskey gets more diluted as well. But we aren't talking about adding ice are we. However, once it is in the glass, as the ice melts, the level goes down in my glass.....water expands when frozen and contracts when it returns to it's liquid form..

Koch, Rush, Fox.... A better source would be George Soros, or Chris Mathews or perhaps even Steven Colbert.....come on Katie. Those statements add absolutely zero to the debate and are truly the spew of the left.

AT, you're not scientist but deeply conservative. The vast majority of scientists . . . at this very second . . . believe in global warming and the effects that accompany it. The level of surface ocean has increased in just the past 50 years due to the melting and the diminishing of the polar caps. Yes, city sized chunks of ice break off and melt and raise the level of the oceans. Science believes this is because of environmental warming.

Kt your programming is holding up well under these pressures. You shouldn't need to go back for recalibration for a few months at least. Just keep listening to Npr and all will be well.

And some of these "scientists" decided that since tree ring data (the entire basis for theory) didn't match what was actually happening in recent times that they would throw out the data and use a new standard starting at the time it didn't match. Of course, it was still relevant for the times it made the theory look good.

Oh wait.....those are conservative sites so they have no meaning or basis in fact......

GT, more arcane? You posted something in a publication no one has ever heard of by the author, "Guest Blogger." Don't know if he's conservative or liberal but he's not a scientist . . . one of the 97 percent that believes in global warming.

and your 97% figure is based on PNAS papers from 2010. It is based on 1372 climate "scientists." Most of those 97% work for the government or climate interest groups....who are more insidious than your oil companies.

It matters not who authored something if the facts are there. You are saying that the last 16 years of statistics regarding global temperature are irrelevant because they were posted on a blog?

I will make an assumption that your comments diminishing the validity of sources because they are "funded by the oil companies" does not apply to the opinions of those funded by other interest groups?

Money corrupts...and that comes from a capitalist....don't think your side is not corrupt because they make you feel better. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Remember, I am a tree hugger. I hug small pieces of tree on my way to the wood stove. Oh my God! I am a wood is carbon neutral...wood releases just as much CO2 rotting on the ground as it does burning.

I appreciate your opinion. Thank you.

lol...that will teach you to comment on a Katie story....your feed is full of our banter...

Wrong GT. On both counts.

Right-wing speak: "most of those 97 percent work for the government or climate interest groups." According to who?

Right-wing speak: "You're saying the last 16 years of statistics regarding global temperature is irrelevant just because they were posted on a blog.

Yeah, because science back up that global warming and ocean warming are continuing and haven;t stopped. In fact, '98 and 2010 were the hottest years ever recorded.

Kathryn, I am no conservative zealot as you mentioned several comments up. I fit no stereotype of a typical conservative. I'm annoyed by most conservative and liberals in the media. I do call myself a conservative, more because I side with conservative economic aspects, which most conservatives that are Republican do not honor, because they are a big part of why we are in debt.

So, please do not make assumptions of what I am and what I think.

And the source you are citing is credible? LMAO! You criticize me for citing "right wing" sources...oh Katie....I guess I could cite or and I am sure you would debunk them as right wing.....

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Kathryn You are an awesome news writer and we have you here in our midst. I so appreciate the digging you did for this. Wow how good it was. I too have similar feelings and get some facts about it too but don't have the mental where with all to do writing like you. Bravoooo!!!

Might be useful GT as you comb through Google to find something that's not funded by the oil companies that was published in the past 15 years. Your paper is circa 1997.

Again, my opinion as well as yours is secondary to that of science and the vast majority of scientists and scientific publishing is that manmade global warming exists and the consequences are dire.

Ah well, you have to understand that he built that business all by himself. All those folks who worked for him at or near minimum wage had nothing at all to do with his success. It was just him.

Isn't this just how it goes though, life in a capitalist society at it's best? Not that I am a fan of the alternative, for regardless of the political system the the most selfish among us always find a way to rise to the top, and manipulate the rest of us to increase their personal fortunes and success.

He DID build the business himself. Everyone that works for him, whether they know it or not is a Contractor. They are hired to provide a service to the business for a certain price. The fact that they chose to provide those services to his company as opposed to another which may or may not have paid them better is on THEM. He offered what he could afford to pay them while still remaining competitive in the marketplace. If they were unhappy with the pay they received, all they had to do was leave.

I've heard the socialistic plot thing regarding your health care changes...... when are people going to realise looking after the poorest in society is a GOOD thing to do!

Our people.. we have no people.. we have robots here. There are few truly self aware, free thinking individuals here. Best move on if you are looking for intelligent life in America.

There is of course no perfect solution to the health care crises we face, escalating costs, access, and in time I predict a shortage of health care providers. We cannot allow, and I realize it already exists at some level, access to quality health care being purely a financial question. Those with a certain level of wealth receiving access, while others not.

Obamacare may not be the answer, but repealing it is most certainly not the answer. We need to do something and we needed it years ago. I wish people like John Schnatter would use their business minds to help find solutions verses creating barriers to solving what no one can argue is a serious problem.

It’s so easy to point out why it’s not perfect, the hard part is finding a better solution. Business people like Mr. Schnatter solve tough business challenges everyday. Wouldn’t it be refreshing to see these smart folks working toward solutions.

Nailed it. Perfect answer. This morning some creep who owns 15 Denny's franchise locations . . . think he's got a few bucks? . . . said he was going to pass along the cost of providing health care for his employees on each meal. Might raise your Monte Carlo Salad from $5.75 to $5.90. Come on folks. Take the first baby step.

I agree with you nudie.

I'd love to do some brain imaging on Papa John's CEO as he vacillated on the number of garage slots to build: 21 or 22 or 23? Life is so F*@#ing stressful.
I say that with full knowledge that a tin-roof Lagos slum dweller thinks the same of me as I vacillate over my choice of chunky vs. creamy peanut butter.

Nice.. I guess it is all relative, unless you are trully at the bottom, then it just all sucks.

But a pair of boots makes you smile from ear to ear

One of the biggest reasons why I don't ever waste my time on politics is because humans are totally incapable of solving problems permanently... "health insurance", "middle class", "taxes", "inflation"... bla bla and such, government has been around for thousands of years and where have we gotten ourselves? Elections are worthless, once a man/woman leaves the "oval office", so does their perspective of the "bigger and better America"

It always amazes me why there aren't even more wars than their are. Humans are so flawed. There is no hope for humanity if people refuse to answer to a higher power and hear the call to a greater cause than their own.

The intensely selfish will use any cover available.

indeed they will.

The thing that I have the biggest issue about with Obamacare is that it is unconstitutional to force people to pay for health insurance. I personally over the years have chosen to opt out of having health insurance, because the cost of the insurance is much more than I pay in medical costs. We keep a savings account just for medical costs and each paycheck we put a percentage of my husbands check in there. For minor issues like colds and such, I use herbal remedies. The cost for dentists and more major issues never has been more than 1000 dollars in one year for a family of 5, not including having my children. Still with having my children, if we would have had insurance, we would have paid more for medical costs than we actually did. According to Obamacare I will have to pay a fine for not having health insurance. I think that it is my right to not have medical insurance and it is unconstitutional for the government to fine me for that.

Moot point. The Supreme Court said it is constitutional. The candidate who would support its repudiation was defeated. A majority of Americans believe that rising and uncontrolled health care costs as well as a rising number of citizens without any healthcare needs to be addressed. ObamaCare is a first step.

What would happen if a family with no insurance suffered a catastrophic illness, say childhood leukemia, where the costs of treatment could approach or exceed a million dollars? No matter how much a middle class family of five might save they would be wiped out.

I agree with you Kathryn, it is constitutional. Regardless of how someone feels, a person should have insurance, it is called personal responsibility. I am sure
affinityterra has a little nest egg saved, but, it probably will not cover any catastrophic illness. Then guess who pays, we all do....

Makes sense, but I guess I'm an odd ball, but I don't believe in traditional remedies in general. I'm one of those that does not believe in chemo or radiation. At the moment, most insurances that I have seen, only offer that where cancer is concerned. I've had family members die from the traditional treatments.

At one of the fire stations here in Austin, Texas is completly Vegan. It started with one fire fighter with cancer. Rather than traditional remedies, he chose to become vegan and eat all organic. In support his fellow fire fighter friends chose to remain be vegan for a bit. When his cancer dissapeared, they all chose to stay vegan. There has been a lot of other cases like this where people have chosen non-traditional methods and the cancer was beaten.

I guess it simply comes down to me not trusting most doctors. The only medical expenses we have had this year is dental care....oh and my daughter got a shot this year.

You are talking about lifestyle choices, and alternative therapies, and I agree they are credible. I have tried many too. I believe having insurance helps everyone. Some diseases can not be cured with lifestyle changes, but require other medicines and therapies.

True Amantcul. I guess I've been lucky to have not had any of those illnesses in my family. A perfect example would be when I sprang both of my ancles, I needed an exray to make sure it wasn't broken. It was just a bad sprang. So, the medical costs were less than 300 dollars. So, you do have a point there.

It just makes me nervous, because with the price of my husbands insurance (almost 500 dollars monthly for the family) we will not be able to pay our house payment. We would have to forclose.

There are catastrophic policies that are available. With say a $10K deductible, that way you are covered should a major illness costing over $10K. Once the government exchanges are set up, I believe there will be a lower cost policy available, as more people enter the pool, the risk is spread over more people. One of the reasons I voted for Obama, was because Medicare works so well. I want that available to me when I become 62. Turning it into a voucher would of made it unaffordable to almost everyone.

AT, you make the perfect point why we need to revamp the healthcare system and put a stop to escalating costs. You have chosen alternative methods and understand that nutrition and lifestyle dramatically affect a person's health. Sadly, like many, we simply cannot afford coverage and roll the dice.

It's not perfect but look at the healthcare in Westernized countries. Not only is the U.S. ranked behind the majority of them (so says the World Health Organization) but we pay significantly more than they do. For the most part, healthcare is nationalized and covered; many get affordable supplemental insurance but the key word is affordable.

Got to start somewhere even with a baby step.

Yes, we do pay more and have less positive outcomes. We are the only industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare. Why? Because the insurance companies and healthcare providers all make money, lots of money from it. I believe, healthcare is a right, and should not be for only people with money. So, here we are, about to join the rest of the world, yes, it is a baby step. I am happy that we are taking it. Preventive care will bring down costs. Using the emergency room as your primary care, is too expensive, and usually it is too late by the time something serious is discovered. Nice having a rational conversation with you.

This is a perfect example of how conservatives and Liberals should discuss issues, through communicating instead of spouting off insults. Due to that it's really difficult to find things that are unbiassed and just present facts in general. I found a video that is quite interesting just a bit ago that just presents the facts, though I'm still left asking, will our government go more in debt due to covering the additional medical costs?

Apparently, those who work for companies that charge over 1/8 of their income will be exempt from the fines for not carrying insurance. This in turn may force insurance companies to charge less so that families like mine can afford the coverage. Also, those who have religions that do not allow for use of traditional doctors, like the Omish, will be exempt.

Anyhow, here is the link

Thanks for the link, I noticed it seemed to be non biased. Looks like most of the taxes are on people making above $200K. Also, anyone making 133% of the poverty rate, which is $14K per year will be eligible for medicaid. That in itself will insure 40 million people. Again, it is a small price to pay in the long run, to ensure preventive care. Where in Florida do you live? I live near St. Pete Beach.

I live in Texas, not Florida. That is if that question was referred to me and not Kathryn.

Sorry, cute dog on your avatar, is that your dog?

One of them. I have a few.

The problem really arises when the traditional remedies don't work and someone needs extraordinary life-saving care. That cost is then borne by the rest of us.

My late cousin didn't trust traditional medicine either.

Maybe some of you can answer my questions in my current story. I'm obviously confused how Obamacare actually works, so I would appreciate some real answers. I don't want to hijack Kathryns story to do so.

First, insurance companies can not deny you insurance coverage for a pre existing condition, for example, if you have diabetes of high blood pressure, before this rule, they would deny you coverage, now they can not.

Secondly, if you have children, they can now stay on your policy until age 26, which is a lower cost to everyone. Again, before this rule, your children could only stay on you policy until they turned 18.

Another more important provision, there are no caps on the insurance you have, say you get breast cancer, and your treatment costs 4 million dollars, prior to this new rule, you were capped, so if you hit say your $500K cap, that was it, you were cut off.

Another provision will be, states will have insurance exchanges, where you can compare and choose a plan, insurance companies can compete across state lines. Before this rule, they could not cross state lines, stupid I know.
Also, there will be a government plan, that is negotiated by the same govt agency that negotiates govt contracts for insurance. It will be non profit and hopefully low cost.

These are just a few of the good changes coming. The more people realize what is in there, the happier they will be. Hope this helps.

It's important to understand how it works whether we like it or not, because it is coming and we are all going to be a part of it.

Thank you amantcul, for the useful information. The competition between insurance companies, I think is a very good thing. Though, this still does not answer my questions in the story I wrote.

In a nut shell, what is your question?

I don't want to hijack Kathryn's story, so I wrote my own if you want to have a look and give input. I've hijacked her story enough.

What you've missed is that most of the states are busy putting poison pills in Obamacare. It isn't going to get off the ground. It will die the death it needs to die.

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And this is one of your friends who actually had to drill "duck and cover" in grade school......lmao

just for you and your buddy O....

Looks like John is going to have to give up the golf course and a his cozy little home. He might end up having to thumb a ride to work with his workers that he refuses to give healthcare to... Wouldn't that be funny.