Taking The Next Step

It has been a while since I have shared a story on the board, but a lot has been going on in my life.  I have been making slow but steady strides in putting my plans together for my future.  I have grown in so many ways.  I have been very fortunate to begin to share with a special person in this forum.  We began chatting a couple of months ago and really hit it off.  It has been such a meaningful experience for me to get to know her and chat more with her.  We have talked on the phone and have shared so many stories together and, we have finally planned to meet.  I will be traveling next week to meet her for what I am sure will be a wonderful and great time.  I am so looking forward to spending time with her.  Wish me luck, folks!    
KingofPain KingofPain
41-45, M
48 Responses Aug 7, 2010

Wow! I happy for both of you!

... Another fine example of why ILIASM would not be the same without enna.<br />
<br />
KoP, I found it very heartening to read that this incident has caused you to move forward with your plans to leave. Things will only get better from here. Our thoughts and hearts are with you through this tough time.

OMG, I'm really really sad to read all this . . . and I can only imagine the pain and distress that this has resulted in for both parties. I'm one of those who has been in the position of an ILIASMer meeting another - so I truly understand the level of excitement, anticipation and fear. . . and my situation had no religious beliefs to overshadow decision making.<br />
<br />
KoP is a good and honourable person who made a mistake. To all those here who are criticising him for his mistake, ask yourselves if YOU have never made a mistake . . . OK, maybe you haven't (or wouldn't) make THIS mistake, but hey! What about a little compassion and understanding? Do you really think KoP needs to be TOLD he has done something dumb . . . . ? The man is the first to admit to his error and to take full responsibility for it. No-one can ask more than that of anyone who makes a mistake, IMO.<br />
<br />
My heart goes out to his lady friend completely. I have put myself in her shoes and asked myself what I would have done if this happened to me . . . Answer: I cannot imagine I would have acted with such grace, forgiveness and love - which must have been her responses, given KoP's comments. Would I have been able to say:<br />
"I am fine"? - I doubt it very much. It is a sign of this amazing woman's strength, grace, dignity and humanity that she can reassure KoP after what has happened.<br />
<br />
I am not a believer so I cannot speak for God, but I would like to think he (or she) is looking down on KoP and his lady, gently and sadly shaking his head because he feels deeply for their sadness and their conflicted feelings . . . I could never believe in a God who sits upstairs (downstairs, wherever! LOL) and sternly shakes his head saying:<br />
"Do NOT use ME as an excuse for your pathetic earthly failings!!"<br />
<br />
KoP and your wonderful lady, know that you are both in our hearts. Remember that:<br />
"No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should" - and even if your timing was a bit out this time, there is no reason to believe the two of you cannot make a wonderful team in the future.<br />
<br />
KoP, those of us who have known you for a long time have urged you time and again to leave your marriage for the very best of reasons - now that you have met your special lady, you have the impetus to do so. This is a wonderful step forward for you - altho no doubt very painful, as it is for us all. Your new journey is beginning, and I hope your very dear and special woman will elect to travel it with you . . . . {{{Hugs}}} to you both.

AliceinW, yes, most of us have had the whole "extra-marital sex is wrong" belief shoved down our throats our whole lives, but I must ask which is worse, Extra-marital sex or refusing sex in a loving and committed relationship? <br />
<br />
KoP, I think in the eyes of God your wife has done a whole lot more wrong than you would have by having sex with a wonderful woman here. <br />
<br />
Personally, I don't concern myself with what god thinks of my actions, rather with the effect my actions have on my fellow inhabitants of this beautiful planet.

hahaha, TB. You always make me laugh. It's hard for people to understand unless you've been served up the whole "extra marital sex is wrong" thing your whole life. It's hard to get over that -ever.

I'm posting in defense of KoP. When two people decide to meet up for the first time in a hotel room, any mature person knows there are risks involved. Beside the whole "what if he's really an ax murderer" element, there are emotional risks. What if one person's attracted and not the other? What if one person is just not comfortable for one reason or another? You don't go to a rendezvous like this with a signed legal contract of what is going to happen. Any mature person enters the hotel room knowing that there is a HUGE element of the unknown. So he freaked out and left. That's his right. Was it hurtful? No doubt. Should he feel bad? For sure! He should have thought out things better before he made the arrangements. But, at the last minute, he changed his mind. That's the risk both partners take in meeting up for the first time.

KoP, <br />
I am trying to make sense of your religious perspective here. Are you telling us that you will never have sex again as long as your refuser-wife is alive?? <br />
or <br />
Is there some bureaucratic red-tape that needs to be peeled back ( i.e., you need a government stamped divorce ) before you take the plunge ( i.e., get re-married or take a second run at attempting an affair ) with a lovely lady?

TB you are as right as rain. I did not want to consider this to be an experiment. It certainly looks like that from my side of the situation also. I should have controlled all of my actions prior to the room. And although I did not consider this an experiment of any kind it certainly came out that way. It was the worst possible scenario. "Use them" is a very appropriate word in this situation. Never my intention but that is what happened.<br />
<br />
Time to move on for me. I was aware that I can no longer live married in the same moment that I was overwhelmed by the affair. It kind happened hand and hand. What I learned out of this was that I can't live in my marriage anymore and am tired of hurts in my wake and in my life. I have made a couple calls about an apartment and got one back today. I transferred money for the deposit and it will be available at the end of August. I will be talking to my wife today about moving out. The King is going to leave the building.

In airline parlance there is a failsafe point, when the bird is hurtling down the runway there comes a point where, for the speed you are going and the amount of runway left you have to take off - and risk a crash - or hit the brakes - with a certainty that you will crash.<br />
All the pre-flight checks don't matter a rats arse when this point is reached.<br />
<br />
You took off, there was a crash. Had you kept hurtling down the runway, you were guaranteed a crash.<br />
<br />
No one ever won anything by not taking a risk. In your review of the crash keep this in mind.<br />
<br />
Tread your own path.

Totally I agree with all of you Princess and Blackdress. Your being honest and able to take up for the victim in the process a fellow ILIAMSMer is exactly no less than expected. As I said in my update I knew that I had burned a great deal of bridges with this person. I knew that I had hurt her and devalued. I realized that I had hurt someone that was already hurting and I too am a representative in that hurt. I however deserve what I get, she only deserved to be treated special and not have to deal with my spiritual bulls*h*i*t! I should have thought more in advance, I should have dealt more up front. However you never know what is going to happen until it is the two of you alone in that room you choose. You never know how prepared you are or in my case were for the event to happen. I went with my feelings at the time and they were wrong. To clarify this was never guilt about my wife. As a matter of fact she never came up in the equation for me. It was God that convicted me. It was a matter of my faith and belief system that I knew about all along and should have been more true to those feelings. I did this and I am the one that has to accept any backlash here. I certainly could have chosen no to share any of this in the forum. It was my decision to put it out there and it was also my decision to post an update about how it went. To explain about what went on in my head in order to help others that are at the brink of jumping into the ring. I want to be the first to say think before you book the room. Think that you have an okay with your beliefs before you check in to a hotel. Get that okay from whomever your God is before you take that next step and flame a person that is already in pain. Before hurt or devastate a person that does not need your baggage. <br />
<br />
The good news is that my special person and I have talked a couple of times since I left yesterday. Frankly I don't understand why she would care or give me the time of day since I ran out of a hotel room with my head between my legs. We have talked and she has reported she is fine. In some ways I can agree with her being fine. However, I am sure that in a lot of ways she is not fine. We all know she is a fellow person here and as said many have discussed that she was flamed in this. She chooses not to come forward in order not to stir the pot. I would say that is a credit to whom she is, because I don't deserve that kind of nobleness. As for us we are also fine. We talked on the phone, and I texted her before I called to be sure it was okay to talk to her. I did not want to assume that my voice was welcomed in her ear. Yet she was gracious enough to even call and check on me last night to be sure I was okay. Again another testimony to her personality and who she is. <br />
<br />
Final note on my part. I have pretty big shoulders. I know a bit about hurt and hurting. I do not detract or take away from some peoples feeling that I am a piece of crap for hurting her. I have big shoulders because over the years of being on this forum I have grown up a great deal. I am not a huge risk taker. The great risk was posting the story in the first place. So many affairs happen on the DL here and for their own reasons people choose not to share what they are or are not doing. I did take the risk to post that I was doing this, and then took the additional risk by providing the update. Honestly, I did not expect support from the group. Because I understand how hurtful all of this was. What happened is between her and I and that is really all that matters. Mere words on my part won't fix it. <br />
<br />
My primary hope is to give others insight and assistance as they also consider getting together with another person to ease the pain of being sexless. My intention was to write this story and these follows ups as the creation of perhaps a check list for all of us on the road to affairs. Paying careful attention to all your own details prior to jumping into the fire is a huge thing. Personally, I feel you can never prepare for all of this. "It is what it is trademark KofP" and you either love it our it tears you apart inside for whatever reason. Cold feet, guilt, pain, shame, regret, or in my case The Power of my own God making me wake up in a cold sweat. I just want others including myself to learn and grow. You have to know your own stuff. In this case I did not and should not have proceeded until I did. This was put out there many times, and I said I was okay. I should have took a deeper look into myself prior too. Living and learning is not a good way to proceed in these kinds of manners.

This bit of my experience doesn't really equate, but TB's mention of doing a BIG thing brings it to mind...because I did one last April.<br />
<br />
It was whether to see my old flame or not. We talked for 8 months before I allowed myself to see him. And I did it because it had become an IMPOSSIBILITY to NOT do it. I was scared and nervous but I knew I couldn't live without doing it. It was simply inexorable.

Got to agree with blackdress here as well. KoP's ILIASM friend must be in a whole world of hurt and confusion at the moment. My heart goes out to you whoever you are.

Those are very good thoughts, TB. In the last paragraph of the post, KoP does address that...that we all need to be prepped before the affair. AND he supports what you and Princess are saying about men & women in this situation. I think that got lost in the discussion.

I'm sure that KoP feels badly that he hurt his lady friend, and had no intent whatsoever to jerk her around. I'm assuming though, that this wasn't a spur of the moment decision to meet up. I think of his lady friend and how utterly confused she must be. I mean...surely they discussed the possibility of guilt rearing its ugly head, right? I don't know the history but once the decision has been made to meet, and the meeting is actually occurring (or almost?) how can everything just go out the window? <br />
<br />
Which part was the self-delusion? The part about deciding to meet and experiencing some potential joy? Or the part about sin and the bail out?<br />
<br />
While I do truly feel badly for KoP, I feel worse for the one left holding the bag as she is an ILIASMer. Kudos to KoP for putting this out there, as MR says. I hope it helps others before they find themselves in the same situation.

Hi KoP,<br />
<br />
I'm really, truly sorry it didn't work out for you and her. She sounds like a wonderful woman and it's a sad and hurtful situation for both of you. I'm sorry you had an issue with your faith. Personally I believe God would have the compassion to understand that you really need to feel an intimate connection with someone very special to you, and you were just trying to address that need.<br />
<br />
Don't beat yourself up too much mate, it really won't do you any good.

I am feeling for you. Both of you.<br />
<br />
This will not help any, it's not really intended to, but I must say your grace under pressure is unprecedented in my experience.<br />
<br />
Tread your own path.

I have to give KoP props for putting this out there. Most folks conduct their assignations surreptitiously, perhaps with their closest inner circle discussing behind the scenes. KoP shared with you his process and experience. It isn't pretty but it is his. He didn't shy away from taking responsibility for the mistake he made once he realized it. We know KOP is a good man; let’s believe that he handled a difficult situation in a compassionate manner. And if he didn’t, let’s think that he and his lady friend were able to resolve or salvage something during their parting. It seems also that he learned something about himself and his relationships.<br />
<br />
As I've been the one left "holding the bag" before (like Princess) I know the other side. It isn’t fun. It’s confusing as we women are fine, believing that we acted in good faith according to what we had discussed with our partners. We did our ‘due diligence’ and once we had decided to do a meet, we had little to no issues or guilt. How do we get more men to get on the same page with us? I don’t know. I don’t have the problem and I don’t know where it comes from. I do know that I end up being ‘collateral damage’ if my partner doesn’t do the same.<br />
<br />
How does a woman feel? Confused. Sad. Unsure of themselves and what they think they know/knew about their partner. As someone who has had affairs, I made a promise to myself that by choosing this route, I had to acknowledge the level of risk and be willing to deal with some of it, and decide what behavior was unacceptable to me. This includes cruelty, user-style behavior, major lies and other things. It’s hard to sort out what is what at times. But, most of us are tougher than almost anyone. We’ve endured heartache untold with our sexless marriages. It makes us both tough and vulnerable at the same time.<br />
<br />
Do I recommend affairs? Yes, if you know what you’re getting into…or are able to roll with it when the unexpected wanders along…which you can be sure it will. I think it’s also important to remember that while we experiment with new relationships and new behavior, there are real people that are affected by our actions. If we are engaging in intra-ILIASM relationships, we especially need to know that each of us here are each a little wounded and I think we have a little obligation to care for each other better than the majority of the world would care for us. We’ve all been there and we all understand.<br />
<br />
FYI, one note. I believe KoP’s guilt comes from his faith, not from his relationship with his wife. It seems he had that part handled. That is slightly different than the guilt one feels from being intimate with someone outside the marriage.

I am sorry for the disappointment you both must be feeling at this time. I was so happy when I saw the first post to think that another pair have made it out of a SM. I can understand where the doubt and even the "fear" may be coming from.<br />
<br />
We all feel that sense of failure or lack of self worth. The fear that we won't measure up that another person will find us as lacking as our spouse must have. Just remember it is not our lack but the lack or our spouses that has let us down. <br />
<br />
I hope you can find the opportunity and the chance to make amends KoP. I hope you and your lady friend can continue to talk and to grow if that is what you both desire. It may have just been too soon for the first meeting. It does not mean that it cannot happen again if that is what you both desire. It just means there is more communication that needs to take place between the two of you.<br />
<br />
We all know all to well the lack of communication or the lack or active listening from our SO is what has lead us all to where we all are now in regards to ILIASM.<br />
<br />
Best luck to you both and I hope you both find what you need in life.

Gee, thanks for the sympathies folks, but it wasn't me...this time. I got to carry LawyerBoy's baggage (not an ILIASM'er) so I know how awful it is to be on this side of it and we shouldn't forget about the poor woman in all this just because it's not her writing the story -- it *is* her story too, whoever she is!<br />
<br />
Princess Sorryfortheconfusion

"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees..."<br />
<br />
Princess Hasbeentheoneleftholdingthebaggage

Geez, ease up Princess. Agreed, it must be a terrible thing for the other party (whoever that is) and they have my sincere sympathy. <br />
I just don't think it is going to be terribly helpful to unload on anyone - at this point.<br />
<br />
Clearly many commenters know both parties (I don't) but a bit of empathy for both might be more helpful than "taking sides" at this point.

Okay, so everyone is being nice to KofP. That's great for him. But...where's your empathy for the woman he ran over? <br />
<br />
KofP, I understand you had a guilt attack, which feels pretty lame to me (but I'm dragging my own experience in there). I think we should all consider that him panicking in this guilt he *knew* he would have to deal with gave this nice lady some extra baggage. Given she's an ILIASM'er, don't ya think she probably had enough when it comes to sex? <br />
<br />
KofP, in my opinion, you indulged in your guilt like a little child and gave someone else *your* baggage to carry too. I think you should be most deeply shamed about that. <br />
<br />
Gentlemen, be careful what you wish for...you may get it. Can you handle it if you do?<br />
<br />
Princess Disappointedinyou

Feeling for both of you.<br />
<br />
At one point, on day #2 when with my ep lady for the first time, I went thru a crisis of confidence. While we were having breakfast. I couldn't even eat (hugely unusual for me !!!!!!! lol), got the shakes, etc etc.<br />
<br />
It passed - after a while. But I am a fairly shallow and simple bloke, and perhaps didn't get the rattles as severely as you did KoP.<br />
<br />
Consider this - it was a time of high emotion, with assorted feelings all struggling for ascendancy. Added to that, I figure you had a looong drive to the assignation so there may have been physical exhaustion as well.<br />
May have just been a situation of total overload. Maybe this prevented you bringing the 'real' KoP to the table at that time.<br />
<br />
Gather your resources. Remember, you were sadly out of practice at being in the environment you were. The head spin will wind down. It'll all be ok. No-one has been killed, might have been banged up a bit, but no fatalities.<br />
<br />
A thinking person like you will sort it all out over a bit of time.<br />
<br />
Tread your own path.

ditto AnarChristian, STOP being so hard on yourself. You had no intent of malice. I chickened out & feel terrible about it, was supposed to happen this coming weekend. We can only do things as we are ready.

KofP, <br />
Stop being so hard on yourself. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Now, all you Christian girls, GO GET HIM!!!!!!!!!

Sorry it didn't go according to plan - but honestly we all wish you well however it goes. Keep talking - that's where we all went wrong before - she'll understand, we're good at that xx

I think you are all very correct. Thanks Tahoebaby and maninfull for pointing that. I agree sex and intimacy is a great spiritual thing. You can never dismiss that. I agree I owe nothing more than friendship and support, and you support meant a great deal to. Thanks again for continued insight.

I am thankful for all your well wishes. It was really great to go back over and read all of the encouragement and kind words you all said. It is even more difficult that I share this update. More to come later from me, but I just wanted to share these words now. Nothing can ever change that moment, and it will be fond in my memory forever. Special could not remotely describe this person. Now here is the but. And I hate those. Regret and men is something I want to share more on later. It has been tossed around in the forum a great deal and mostly from the ladies. It does seem that the guys have trouble with regret and impulsivity. What is most regretful is that in the wake of those ever strong emotions it hurts and drags the other person through hell. It resets their clock and makes them doubt themselves. I am very guilty of doing that. My faith is a very important part of my life, and my special person knew and questioned that a great deal with me prior to us getting together. I became defensive, saying I am fine. Really I was not. I did not pay any attention to all the warning signs that I passed by during my drive and plunged in deeply leaving a wreak in my wake. I felt that my faith would not play a part in this moment. I felt that I was in control. Then in that moment the extreme feelings of guilt for what I was doing took over, and I felt what I can only describe as a moment from God. I went from being able to be in the moment to becoming a train wreak in what seemed like hours. All of those feelings of short comings came flying out, and I left this morning. No doubt deeply hurting a wonderful person. No doubt feeling like this group also took a great hit. For me the feelings of guilt and sin (folks trying not to preach here) I need the sermon not you, flooded me. I could not sleep and thus have been awake a very long time driving and thinking. There is no way to apologize to a person that has anticipated this moment once the feelings of regret or guilt began to flood you. It is far too late and someone is going to get hurt. <br />
<br />
Guys we need to really listen to the person we are considering being with. The women process this far better and are so much more prepared for this with eyes wide open. Instead I followed my impulses. Thanks KofP.

What IS it with that croissant?? Skip the croissant - its not the only French item at the table.

...d'accord TB...Viva La SLF!!!!!!

I'm thinking of you both - and hoping your time together is as stupendously wonderful as the first time I spent any time with Baz . . . and, for that matter, every time since!!<br />
<br />
Please know that feelings of guilt are programmed in due to the MANY years we have spent trying to make ourselves into someone we are NOT. Changing back to the "real" you can induce some guilt - we feel we "should" stay in our trapped position forever. Know this for the nonsense it really is . . . and give yourselves whole hearted permission to be REAL for each other . . . .<br />
<br />
And don't forget to come back and tell us ALL about it . . . !!! ;)

Wow, good for you KOP. I am cheering you from here. She is lucky, whomever she may be!

I LOVE these play by play posts!!! I hope he checks in.

Now Penelope...we shouldn't assume they'll be having sex...<br />
<br />
HAhahahahaha! Sorry, couldn't say that with a straight face...

My two cents....live for the moment, live in the moment.

I wish you both the best.

Yep... and this really should be contagious.

Wishing you and your special friend much joy and and bliss.

I recall some of your earlier stories as well, and know your pain. I hope you can give yourself permission to experience joy in life. You deserve it! Yes, relax and be, just be with her - no expectations. SImple luxuries are often the best -- and yet can be so intense. I wish you both the best.

Well very close to my final destination. During my drive i had plenty of time to just think about things. It seems interesting that my deepest struggle has been to look beyond my sexless marriage and grant myself permission to enjoy life. These marriages take so much out of you and make you think that you do not deserve pleasure, joy and happiness. So as I get closer to meeting my friend I have no expectations except to just relax and be in the moment. Thank you all for the well wishes and good vibes. I plan to enjoy these days.

I hope that you and your special lady friend will enjoy each other's company in every way. <br />
<br />
Princess Beamingsmile

Wishing you all good things, KoP. Just go with an open mind and no expectations....go with the flow and enjoy the experience. Maybe you'll end up together, maybe not. But either way, I hope you both get what you need from it. You'll probably be nervous at first, but I think that will fly out the window tres vite. Let us know how it goes!<br />
<br />
Btw: It IS like riding a bike.

KoP, I've been a fellow ILIASMer with you for a long time - and have felt your pain at the failure of your marriage. I have seen how HARD you have worked to resolve the irresolvable. So I am DELIGHTED to know you have found someone special here on this board. You are another of the couples that ILIASM has spawned - and I know how successful such relationships can be from first hand experience!! I hope your new lady knows what a truly lovely man she has found - and that she is a truly lovely person too. You deserve no less! Every best wish for a wonderful first meeting - I well remember the butterflies and delicious scary feelings that accompanied that first ever meeting. . . !! {{{Hugs}}}

This is wonderful news... I wish you all the best!!!

ENJOY! <br />
Sometimes life does work out right.

...she is a lucky woman, KOP!

Good Luck KoP. I wish the best for you both.

Hoorah!!!