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Hello All, Here's My Sm Story

I've been a lurker here off and on for the last year, and decided I was going to post my story and try to participate in the conversations. Since I found this site, I've come to use it on the most difficult days when frustration and despair set in. I find it to be comforting to know that I am not alone... I guess misery loves company, or something like that.

A little background to start. I'm 27, my wife is 30, we've been married a year and a half, and in a relationship together for about three and a half years. She has been a refuser throughout our entire marriage, with it getting worse over time. We've made love maybe 25-30 times total, mostly at the very beginning, with only 3-4 of those this year. We lead very different lifestyles in our teenage and earlier adult life. I was always pretty reserved, and had intentionally saved myself for "the one," while she had lead a fairly wild sexlife prior to marriage. I (unfortunately, in retrospect) got quite a lot of details on her previous sexploits before we got together, as there was a period where we were pretty close friends before our relationship became romantic.

I mention that last bit, not particularly because I resent her previous actions, but because it is now a source of great pain for me that she was into so many other guys but now has no interest in a healthy sexual relationship with me. Her explanation for this is that "Since I started having sex (as a teenager), I always 'wore out' one way to get off and had to find another way (like a new position, etc). Now I've just run out of ways and I can't enjoy sex anymore." She seems to see this as a perfectly logical, reasonable explanation that cannot be refuted or changed. As such, she has the unfortunate tendency (usually after a few drinks) to recount how great her former lovers were to her girlfriends (when I'm around), and doesn't see why that would bother me so much because "Sex was fun then" and now it isn't. So basically she "used up" her sexuality and doesn't have any left for me, her husband... as if she were only born with a finite number of sexual encounters or something and, unfortunately for me, she just ran out when we got married. This defies logic to me.

When we do have sex, it is clearly pity sex now. I try hard to make her enjoy it, but it has no effect and usually just ends up frustrating me more. For example, I will be going down on her with great enthusiasm in a way she had enjoyed early in our sexlife and after a while she says "Are you having fun?" in a slightly amused / bored voice. What a turnoff. During intercourse, she might toss out a few shallow moans at first, then she seems to forget to keep up what is obviously an act and just waits for me to finish - also a major mood killer. I'm stuck with this maddening choice... I have a high libido and am contently frustrated sexually and emotionally, but I feel awful getting pity sex - like I'm just using her body. And that is only the rare occasion she is willing to be sexual at all.

She claims to not be able to ****** anymore - see above "used up sexuality" explanation. I think there is more to it than that. As things were quickly on the decline, I would notice that her vibrator would be out on days I worked but she was off. She would claim she got in the mood and I wasn't around. This became a pattern and I confronted her on it, she said she only got horny in the afternoon... oook, so why never when we have days off together? No explanation for that, and she stopped doing so (or hides her tracks better, not sure which). I have no problem with her taking care of her own needs when I'm not around, but then to consistently refuse me is what makes it frustrating.

I've tried having the talk with her a couple times. She swears it's her and not me, which I find hard to believe given her past and the ************ on her part early in our sexlessness. She claims it is her inability to enjoy sex. I think it may be that she just has no interest in our sexlife which then lowers her enjoyment of it because it is a chore to her. She says she'll try, and we even agree to certain action items like talking to her doctor (more below) or trying to be more physical even if it isn't sexual (hold hands, cuddle, hug, etc) as these mean a lot to me too. I've begged her to tell me if it is me, that I'd rather know what the problem is so I can either work on it or at least work on accepting it if it is my failing.

To further complicate matters and reinforce my fears that it may at least be partly me, we both have medical issues. I take a medication that is basically ED in a pill - of course I can pop a magic pill to counteract that and be just fine, but I have to know when to take it. I went through hundreds of dollars of the things so I'd be "ready" on days I thought might lead to something, then finally told her to just tell me when to take them, which is of course never. She on the other hand takes multiple medications that lower libido, though the problems started before she started the meds. During our talks I've asked and she's agreed to ask her doc about alternate meds that don't have sexual side effects, but she never follows through. She also claims that she hates condoms, which we were forced to start using at one point because she didn't have medical insurance to cover the pill. She is now covered by two insurance policies and won't ask her doctors for the pill. Incidentally, when she got off the pill was about when her interest in sex became non-existent - I point this out as a possible cause/effect, and she still won't talk to her doctor.

When I pin her down and make her talk about it, she will admit it is a problem. She will agree to do things like talk to her doc, try herbal supplement, change behavior in small ways, but then never follows through. A day later, the conversation is forgotten like it never existed. It's as if she knows it is a problem, but doesn't care past getting me off her back about it.

There so many things that build up to hurt, frustrate, and generally make matters worse. Almost every day she will call me and respond to my "hello" with "Hey sexy." I used to enjoy it, now I hate it. How can she call me sexy when she won't entertain the idea of making love to me? I hate how she tenses when I try to cuddle with her, as if she is worried that I'm "going to try something." I hate how she puckers up like she would for kissing the cheek of a child when I try to kiss her. I hate the complete indifference when I do try something like kissing her in a sexy way or, God forbid, letting my hands roam in an attempted seductive manner. She will ignore the kisses and focus on whatever she is doing (tv, book, computer) and slap away the hands and maybe make a comment that I'm a perv... WTF, I'm a pervert for wanting to make love to my WIFE?! I hate how I find myself trying to de-sexualize her... I find her extremely attractive, but I've found that just hurts me worse when I see her walking around in almost nothing. Why long for something you can't have? So I see her and try not to think anything sexual. It is a self-defense thing but it still disgusts and infuriates me. I wonder in 3 years if I will even want her that way if I continue down that road? I hate how I avoid going to bed with her, just so I don't have to feel rejected... she can't reject me if she's already asleep, right? I hate how I dread Valentines Day, birthdays, etc, because I know I will feel the almost inevitable lack of intimacy even more keenly than normal.

I've tried the candles. I've tried the warm oil massages. I've tried the romantic, expensive dinners. I've tried doing the chores. All I get for my trouble is an even deeper feeling of rejection. That I make special efforts and she still can't be bothered to follow through with even small steps to improvement cuts pretty deep. I know that she loves me, but I can't help feeling unloved when she is so unwilling to work on a problem that is obviously important to me. I won't cheat on her, and I'd rather die than divorce her as I truly do love her with all my heart.

So now I step back and find myself a frustrated insomniac who is drinking more than he strictly should at night just so he can forget about everything before bed. I feel rather depressed at times - it comes and goes. I'm finding less simple joy in life with every passing month... I don't laugh as much, and she somehow doesn't understand why. I'm left believing I can do nothing but pray and hope for the best. It's up to her. I'll try talking to her again, I'm sure, but I don't believe it will make a difference.

If you've managed to read through this poorly cobbled together story, past my ramblings, and past my rants, I thank you for your time. I hope that venting like this will be therapeutic for me, and I hope that maybe someone will see themselves in this story and take comfort in knowing they aren't alone in their struggles. Many people here are worse off than I am, and I salute those of you that have either made peace with their situation, or found another way to enjoy their lives. To those still struggling, stay strong..
satiborp satiborp 26-30 14 Responses Oct 22, 2010

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I have read your grief and followed-up on the replies. Most are worthy of consideration. I see something, maybe the others have missed.

It's been two (2) years since your posting and I hope you are still in the relationship. Regardless of what the others have said about a dead-end relationship, yours really is NOT at a deadend. If you have split up, then it's too late for you. You've made that, a mistake, and just move on.

However, if you have stuck it out since this posting then, you have a very good chance of growing old with your Spouse.

By now, you might have realized it was a phase She was going through. The trick in keeping Her interested is by "Letting Her come to you!" That's right! She has acted like an animal in Her yourger years and treating Her like an animal in the future is what She will respond to. But before you get any ideas that may be harmful, please read on.

What you described your Wife as, is a feline (a cat). If you take the time to study the character of a cat, you will see some of the same things.

A cat in independent and does NOT need anyone. They can get their own food, hide their own mess and be stealthy about lots of things. The game plan here is to get a ferral cat to become dependent on you. Starting with Food, Shelter, and getting this Wife of yours to find comfort in your words. This means you CANNOT expect anything in return from Her.

After the comfort level is steady, treats are next in the same form as food and food only. Forget about the sex for now. Focus on treats in small doses only, not big steak dinners or big boxes of candy. Then withdraw and stand back to give "space" again. You want Her to come to you from now on. NEVER go to Her. Be excited to see Her and then back off. Every encounter and word you have with Her is positive and up beat. Don't mention anything about having a rough day, because She's not interested and it's also a mood buster, too.

She also has to never suspect you have any "Cats" on the side, either. This is where security is important for Her. A ferral cat will leave when they think it's safer somewhere else.

Next, a ferral cat may start to come to you and rub against you. A Wife's touch is the same way. She is starting to like you so don't screw this up with any expectations on Her. This is how you get Her to start "wanting" you. This also takes lots of time and effort on your part in "WAITING." Keep you mouth off of Her, too. She doesn't want it or feels repulsed by it for now. Just wait! Your best moves are comfortable touches or caresses that feel good without lotions or oils. You think a cat will let you smear a lotion on them? Forget it. Smells bother them.

When your Wife starts to "Bite" is the sign She is ready for a kiss. A cat that bites gently is actually how they kiss. Do NOT pull away. Forget about french kissing, let Her move forward on Her own. Her chemistry kicks in when She starts WANTING to continue kissing. What is happening is the Male Testosterone in the Saliva is chemically changing Her mood to your advantage. The animal is coming out in Her and hopefully, you will be ready because SHE "wants" to be satisfied and right now, that's with you.

You need to keep it up for Her so that She gets what "She wants." Your goal is to provide that stimulation OR She will go find it somewhere else: a Cat in heat is dangerous. You may end up with a litter that's not yours. So stay there and stay in control so that She is gratified FIRST. Your "jollies" don't matter to Her. The whole idea here is to let Her lose control and when She has finished with you, She will realize what just happened and discover that it was YOU! You did it!!! You got into Her head and made love to Her.

Forget about looking for a reward from Her. You should should start feeling like a "Stud" by now already. Stay there with Her and let Her cuddle to feel secure again. Don't get up until She gets up, even if She got real messy on you. Leave it there until She gets up and you can go clean up afterwards.

Worst thing to do is ask Her how you did. It will give Her the idea that you are NOT confident in what had happened. Don't even mention anything because silence on that matter will get Her thinking that there's more to you that She has not discovered, yet.

Guess what? You've just started falling in love all over again. Yes! You should worry! This will happen over and over again. She loses interest and it's up to you to keep Her wanting you, all over again. It takes effort to be Her number one man and massive amounts of effort to stay up there AS Her number one man.

You'll figure it out. Life's a journey. You need stuff to happen or it becomes boring. People have actually had suicidal thoughts just because of that. Guys have that thought during "Mid-Life Crisis" wondering: "Is this all there is to life?" What do you think Women go through? Just Hot Flashes? A Woman generally has three goals in their life: To be a Wife, to be a Mother, and to be an Executive. Everything falls into place for them when they achieve these major goals.

But for now, start with the small details and follow the cat.

Satiborp-<br />
I'm sorry to hear about your (very well-articulated) situation. First of all, +1 on the idea of not having a child together. I apologize in advance, because I gather that you are more than intelligent enough to think of this, but sometimes intellect loses the executive decision-making role. I concur with the others that raised concerns about alcohol compounding the problem. Personally, I would make seeing a couples therapist a non-negotiable plan. I think that you are getting wise advice here, but strangers on the internet (sorry, folks, no offense intended) don't get a full picture of what's going on, and may be biased their own situations. That's not to say that sharing here isn't valuable, but it's not a substitute for professional consultation. <br />
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My situation differs in many ways, although I too am disappointed with my post-marriage (5 years) sex life. It has become an area of incompatibility, and we have discussed this with a couples therapist. Our desire for any activity differs also. I used to think I was somewhat of a homebody, but in comparison to my wife, I feel like a globetrotter. We have great respect for each other, but these are some really significant differences. I struggle with some of the ideas you and others have mentioned in this thread, such as ending a marriage with someone that you love, when aspects of the relationship don't work for you.<br />
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Hang in there, and please, for your sake, don't sweep this under the rug. You owe it to yourself to improve your situation in whatever way you determine to be the right way. Keep us posted.

Satiborp, as I said before, you must make the decision to stay or leave. However, you better clearly understand that staying, due to YOUR values and beliefs, puts no obligation on your wife to change. In fact, she is not going to change due to anything you do or do not do. She will only change if there is something from within her that motivates her to take action. <br />
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Meanwhile, marriage is a legal, binding contract between 2 people. Were you the only one who repeated your marriage vows? Did she say anything at the ceremony? I am trying to get you to understand that the "contract" is null and void if one person fails to perform the terms of the contract. That may sound a bit cold and analytical, but it is the truth. You cannot perform the terms of a marriage contract solely by yourself. So, if you decide to stay, you better get the idea that you are "perserving" your marriage right out of your head pronto. There is no marriage. There are plenty of issues, but there is no marriage.<br />
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All that being said, I totally agree with ManMovingForward, DO NOT IMPREGNATE (even on a remote chance) this woman. Do not add to another soul's misery by bringing a baby into this situation. Some people get the whacky idea that a baby will help a "marriage". No child deserves having that burden dumped on them. <br />
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Once again, you are young with your whole life ahead of you. You may feel you "love" this person, but imagine the joy and happiness in your life if you felt loved in return. So moving on may be painful, no one said that it would be easy, but God knows it is better than wallowing in the pit of misery you are in right now. <br />
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Good luck.

One quick note, and let this really sink in, do not impregnate this woman! I understand why you are staying, but remember that you are not superman. You values are truly commendable, but what good are those values if you are on the abused end for keeping those.

Welcome brother satiborp.<br />
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It reads to me like a cocktail of mental issues / medications / alcohol / history that have your wife thinking as she does. A complex ball of yarn that would take herculean efforts to untangle, and likely to be untangled by a whole lot of hard unremitting work by her. <br />
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There's hurdle #1. YOU can't do this for her. And she may have no interest to try and do it for herself. Indeed, she may think the way she percieves things is absolutely correct - and see no need to challenge her thinking. If this is the case then your marriage is dead in the water.<br />
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If hurdle #1 was addressed, you would be talking some considerable time for the situation to resolve, and the resolvement will not necessarily be the 'fixing' of the union. It might be the dissolvement of the union.<br />
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I guess I am suggesting that the signposts here all seem to be pointing toward the exit, and it might be wise for you to start thinking about an exit strategy. YOU can control that, YOU can't control what she chooses to do (or not do) about herself. <br />
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Really, it is best to concentrate on what YOU can control. At its simplest, in your situation, that boils down to whether you end up staying - or going. If the situation remains as it is, then I figure you would choose to exit. I am suggesting that on the evidence you set out, the chances of the situation changing are not high - so you may as well start planning said exit. If you never have to execute the plan (because some cosmic event magically "fixes" everything) what have you lost ?<br />
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Tread your own path.

I think you have a good policy there notseekinghookups. I have nothing against drinking, and I actually drink more frequently (though not remotely to the extreme) than she does. She probably only goes out drinking or to a house party where she'll drink once every month or two... but it is often a doozie when she does. <br />
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Some people can handle it, know when to quit ba<x>sed on how they react. I know plenty guys/gals that can pack away some drinks, and still be themselves. For every person like that though, there is an angry drunk, a loud drunk, a slutty drunk (goes for guys too), a violent drunk, a sulky drunk, etc, etc. Even if they aren't alcoholics, they can still turn in to Mr. Hyde when they drink. Best to avoid when possible.

"I would not be true to the man I want to be if I left her"<br />
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Believe me, we really do "get" that. It is one of the things that hold many of us in marriages for FAR too long. Please ask yourself the following HARD questions:<br />
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"Is it more important for me to have a good opinion of myself than it is to live a happy life?"<br />
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"Can I admit to myself that I made a mistake in marrying this person, and can I then actually set about fixing that mistake?"<br />
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"If I truly love my wife, WHY am I keeping her bound to me in a relationship where she is unable to find the sexual satisfaction she is entitled to?"<br />
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Your honourable mind set reflects well on you as a person, but it may well mean you are holding back from accepting some difficult truths about yourself and your life.<br />
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And when we vow "for better or for worse" in our marriage vows, I do not believe that includes deprivation of sex. Vows go two ways - if your wife will not or cannot hold to her side of the vows then there is cold comfort in taking the high moral ground and insisting that YOU have stuck to your's. Time to re-assess IMO. . . Good luck!

Your quite welcome. Sorry to hear you have the added problem of alcohol. While I don't know how much she drinks, anybody who acts inapropriate when drinking has a problem. May or may not be an alcoholic but if it causes bad behavior then it is a problem. It's one reason when dating (before I met the wife) women who liked getting hammered was not one I dated more than once. As soon as it showed then bye bye...lol Best of luck

Thank you all for the thoughtful comments. There really is a good group of people here who truly want to help others, which I find is quite rare.<br />
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Allow me to further explain and clarify a couple items. The most hurtful things she says, like talking about past flings with her girlfriends, or even flirting with other guys happens when she is drinking. When sober, she is much more thoughtful and considerate, though still a little more "sharing" than I would like. When she goes out with her friends though and starts getting hammered, she reverts to her partygirl past and can be extremely inappropriate as I mentioned before. Later, when she sobers up, she will make excuses for her actions and expect me to accept them (i,e, "I was drunk" or "Well sex was fun back then, I can't help it that it isn't now."). And, to my knowledge, she doesn't explicitly bash me to her friends saying I'm a horrible lay, a bad husband, or whatever. Implicitly though, saying what a good time Ex #7 was is pretty emasculating and causes awkward silences from her friends, not to mention myself. <br />
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Also, I realized a lot of folks would suggest cut and run while I can and some might suggest an affair or friends with benefits. As I said before, I'm pretty old fashioned in many ways. Despite plenty of opportunities, she is the only person I've ever been with sexually. I also take an old fashioned view on marriage, in that it is not something that can be easily set aside. Though I realize that refusers are not meeting their obligations to the marriage (unless due to some physical limitation or something), I still said my vows with every intention of being with her for the rest of my life. Also, a part of me still hopes that somehow things will get better - perhaps I will make an demand that we see a couples therapist or something. Finally, and most importantly, despite all the negative things and the pain, frustration, rejection, I still do love her deeply. There are times I feel it is more one way, and times that I feel loved too, but everything else aside, she is still the woman I love. I may be naive, and I respect others who have made different choices in my place, but for now I need to hold on to that love and try to make it work. I would not be true to the man I want to be if I left her (though that sounds pretty corny ha). <br />
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The next "talk" I have with her, I will take the suggestion and broach the idea of therapy / counseling. <br />
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Also, I have read your story VLB and it is very inspiring. I couldn't be happier for you guys - such a great story of happiness coming out of such hurtful circumstances. <br />
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Thank you all again for the kind words Moxxie, MMF, enna, VLB, and notseekinghookups, It is such a pleasant change from the typical group of immature internet trolls I see on most forums. You all are awesome :)

She is just doing the typical refuser stuff. Make excuses. She says it's not you, it's me. That is one you can take her at her word. IT IS HER!!!! You have been hanging out a while so I am sure you see many similarities in your story & the story of many. Now perhaps she did go through some hormonal change etc. But if that's true then she needs to take action.<br />
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If it is not, then as enna says (in different words) you got the sex bait & switch. It is probably a fabricated way to say "yea marry me I am really sexual". Then after marriage SURPRISE. Like others have said you have youth & no kids on your side. Can make a decision easier. Ask yourself where you see this in 6months, 1 year, 5 years from now. Is this where you want to be or is it time to start over? Best of luck.

I'm always suspicious of guys in sexless marriages who claim to have had "over 100 sexual experiences" prior to marriage, and then suddenly become sexless in marriage.<br />
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Similarly, a woman who boasts about all her previous sexual experiences and how marvellous they were - and is then sexless in marriage - may well be fantasising about those early sexploits, IMO.<br />
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However, if you have evidence that she DID have a lot of sex, then the most likely explanation is that she was sexually abused as a child. Sexually abused children often go on to have a large number of sex partners. But these sexual encounters are nothing more than a "brief scratch of the itch". The woman (or man) is unable to find any genuine connection with the sex partner or to enjoy any intimacy from the sex act. It is a purely mechanical thing . . . <br />
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If she will acknowledge abuse and seek treatment for it with a psychiatrist, she MAY get better. But it will take a LONG time. If she has NOT been abused, then she still should see a psychiatrist because her responses to sex are outside the normal range and may have another (possibly hidden) cause . . . <br />
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But I agree with other posters - LEAVE! You are young and without children. Your situation is already BAD - and believe me, it WILL get worse. If you are a long time lurker here, you already know that.<br />
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Time to grasp the nettle and tell her that her version of marriage and your's will never be the same. There will be a loving sexy and gorgeous woman out there, waiting for you, when you are free. . . . Think on that.

Also, I do get the excuse that it is "no fun" anymore also.

You married my wife!! Satiborp, you said "I mention that last bit, not particularly because I resent her previous actions, but because it is now a source of great pain for me that she was into so many other guys but now has no interest in a healthy sexual relationship with me." <br />
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I have the same situation. My wife, when she was single, would go out and have random sex. Now, what do I get out of being the one who stayed with her? Nothing. This embitters me to no end. I mean it is the biggest part of my discontent.<br />
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I am thinking that these people just do not know how to bond or something. <br />
I wish you the best.

satiborp, it is good to get this off your chest in a safe and anonymous way. Some of the comments you get will be helpful and insightful and others, well not so much. But..., my bet is the one thing you will read the most is why? Why, at age 27 and no children, why are you tolerating this lifestyle? It is not normal. It is not healthy. There is nothing about your relationship with your wife that indicates that she cares about you or has an iota of respect for you. She discusses your sex life, mocks you and ridicules you for the amusement of her friends. She is not a nice person. <br />
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The other thing is that you are apparently sexually incompatible. It happens more than you think. Sometimes we just make poor choices in a partner. We make mistakes. So my advice is to fix it by leaving her. Now if that makes you queasy, think about spending 5, 10, 20, 30 years frustrated, confused, miserable, rejected and emotionally battered. So once again my advice is to get out while you are young and chalk this one up to experience. You have a whole wonderful life in front of you. Go out there and find someone who will appreciate you.