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Outsourcing Your Needs

So you live in a sexless marriage.  There is no sex (or very little sex) and your relationship lacks intimacy and emotional connection.   As a "sex person" you miss this badly and have tried, without success, to address the issue in your marriage.

You love your spouse, who is basically a good person.  You share children, a home, past history - and really do NOT want to leave your marriage.  Ideally, you'd like your spouse to return to the good old days when s/he loved sex as much as you do.  Or, in the case of those whose spouses have never been sexually expressive, for them to discover their sexuality and revel in expressing it with you . . .  But the chances of this happening are slim to nil.

You are facing the "classic choices" of ILIASM:
1)   stay in your marriage as it is and just put up with things as they are
2)   leave your marriage
3)   stay in your marriage - and outsource your needs!

This story addresses point 3.

If you choose this option, it involves a third party (or even more if you are very adventurous!).  And herein lies the first problem.  Just "deciding to have an affair"  or "deciding to take an FWB (friend with benefits)" may be easy to do, BUT it may not be so easy to find a suitable candidate.  But, for the purpose of this exercise, let us assume you have a suitable candidate "available". . . 

Before considering how this decision will impact on you and your marriage, let's look at the impact on the chosen person.   Does s/he want exactly what you want - a "no strings attached" relationship?  If so, can you be sure s/he won't change his/her mind after a period of time?  (Sex has a way of bringing people together in emotional ways!)   How will you cope if your FWB decides s/he wants a more permanent relationship?   Or what will you do if your FWB decides to confront your spouse with this relationship the two of you have?

Now it is your turn.  First, you will probably have to overcome your conditioning that says "affairs are wrong".   Whilst you may believe an external sexual relationship is feasible for you, you may nevertheless suffer guilt once you have instigated the affair or FWB relationship.  Then, you will need to consider carefully the "how, when, where" of your affair.   Unlike a current poster, I cannot imagine a situation where you invite your new partner openly to your home and insist your spouse agree to you bonking each other silly in the spare room!!   (And this may be very judgemental of me, but IMO, if your FWB agreed to such a thing, s/he could hardly be considered a "quality person"!!)

But those of us who live in sexless marriages are a resourceful bunch, so I'm assuming you have dealt with both the guilt and the practicalities, and are ready to go!!   What can you expect. . . ??

On the plus side, you can expect to have some WONDERFUL outcomes!  You will feel renewed as a person.  Your confidence in your sexuality will be restored and refreshed.  You will have all the purely physical joys of great sex once again.  It can be (and probably will be) an euphoric experience! 
It is great to feel admired, desired, wanted and sexy again.  It helps put your worst fears about yourself to bed. (Pun intended!)  It is amazing to know someone else wants you as much as (or more than) your spouse does NOT want you!

A perfect solution!!  But wait - sadly it may not turn out to be "perfect".   When you return to your sexless marriage, you may well experience even more acutely that which is missing in this primary relationship of your's.  What was barely tolerable before now becomes increasingly INtolerable.   When you decided to outsource your needs, you probably thought something like this:
"Well, I don't want to leave my spouse, and all that is really missing in the marriage is sex, so if I can get this need met elsewhere, I should be able to continue with the marriage."

But having great sex tends to highlight that which is missing from your marriage OTHER than sex.  Previously, the "no sex" isssue loomed so large that it tended to mask any other problems in the marriage.   But now you ARE having sex, you can see that it was not and is not the "only problem".   Chief of the other possible problems is likely to be an absence (or at least a serious reduction) in "intimacy".   This is why many ILIASMers refer to their spouses as "room mates" - because they really are no more than good friends and room mates - NOT spouses in the real sense.

And now you can see the genuine possibility that you COULD have the sort of relationship you really want.   Even if you entered into your affair or FWB relationship with a determination to keep it NSA, chances are it won't stay that way for long.   One or both of you may well start to develop emotional feelings for the other.   Sex has a lovely way of developing loving intimacy between two people - and if you are not getting this need met with your spouse, you may very well find it impossible to stay emotionally detached from your new partner.

Even if your FWB is not interested in a long term relationship with you, the genie is still out of the bottle!  You now KNOW there is a good chance you WILL find someone who will meet your needs AND be someone whom you can love and cherish, and who will love and cherish you . . . .

Your spouse may detect that you are "different" - hard not to be when you are having amazing sex after a LONG drought!     Even if your spouse does not have any idea of your affair, your increased self confidence and happiness may strike them as "new and different", thus provoking suspicion or fear.   This is usually about you leaving the marriage - and in most sexless marriages, the Refuser spouse is very happy with the status quo - so s/he does not want you to leave!  Even in unhappy marriages, some spouses choose to "keep" their spouses, because they see a divorce as losing face, or losing control of the spouse.

So now you are facing a new problem.  Either your spouse is treating you with suspicion and anger - not very pleasant.  Or s/he is doing his/her utmost to "win you back".   This latter can be even more difficult than dealing with the angry suspicious spouse.   At least in that scenario you can say that your marriage truly IS over.   When your spouse is busily doing all things possible to please you, a sense of obligation (and possibly increased guilt) can trap you even further.

I have no intention of addressing this ssue from a moral or ethical viewpoint.  Each person is guided by their own beliefs  regarding these decisions. Yet these can add yet another layer of confusion, guilt, concern and uncertainty to the whole situation.

In conclusion, I am writing this from MY point of view.  I went down this track - and this is what happened to me.   Some people can deal with compartmentalising their sex life and their emotional life and their day-today life very successfully.  And I truly wish them well.  Others are like me, and find that outsourcing their needs adds another layer of complexity to an already complex and difficult situation.

As you consider how to proceed with your sexless marriage, please take this story as a "cautionary tale".  If you decide to go this route, know that you may be making your life even more difficult.  As for me, option 2 was my final choice - and it has worked out well for me.  But each person must decide for him/herself how to proceed.   As my beloved Baz says "Tread your own path"!!

Addendum 21st Feb 2013:
The wise Footballbat asked me if I could have moved forward in my own life withOUT having this experience - and that has made me really think about this proposition.  The truth is, I don't know because I DID have the experience.  But I suspect I might NOT have moved forward - or it might have taken me a LOT longer to do so - without this experience.

Having sex with my FWB assured me that I was desirable, sane, normal in my desires and that my life was NOT condemned to sexlessness!   Altho I personally found the FWB route was not a satisfactory long term solution, I have no doubt it DID propel me into taking further action to resolve my sexless marriage issues.

Would I recommend it for others?  That is the $60 million question!!  I think perhaps it would be wisest to say that, for those leaning towards this "solution", go into it with the prior knowledge I did not have - that is, the information from this story.  (Other ILIASMers have said they had similar outcomes.)  IF you feel confident to undertake this, then go for it.  But be aware that whilst it might be a catalyst for change (a GOOD thing IMO!!) it may not work as a solution for you.  Or it may in fact be only a short term solution.   Bear in mind though that any solution only has to work until it stops working - however long that might be!  (Thanks for another gem, my Bazzar!)
enna30 enna30 56-60, F 235 Responses Apr 2, 2011

Your Response


I love this, I have been their it's a rollacoaster ride!!!!! It's fun, scary, exciting, hurts!!!! But at the end totally worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My experience has been mostly good with the FWB route. No relationship remained in tack for more than 6 months. The relationships all ended on good terms. Most common reasons for moving on were:1) Somewhat different sexual interests.2) Logistics - it became too risky to maintain the relationship.One relationship was excellent. We became very good friends and had a lot in common both in and out of the bedroom.It has been 5 years now since I have had sex with another human. I am starting to wonder if I will ever experience physical intimacy again. I don't see leaving my wife as a good option. I care too much about her well being to leave her. I am working on fixing our intimacy issues, but it has been more than 5 years without sex with my wife, perhaps 7 or 8 years. Imagining a time when we can enjoy each other as a husband and wife is very hard to imagine. Still I am not giving up.Maybe I can learn something by interacting with this group.For now I don't imagine that I have much valuable advice to share with regard to fixing a sexless marriage. My track record is abysmal.

From about 50 000 members here only about 3 cases can be called FIXED... Both sites were involved and interested to make it work...and as I can remember dry spell was not that huge... so, sorry,but can't say anything optimistic... Coke probably never been there...

You mean I have to put the quarters in the machine to get the machine to put out?

Nope... just make a few steps to an other machine..

Another machine. There are other machines! I get it.

It's not YOUR track record, bzalt. The thing is (hey, I've been participating here since 2009) that experience shows that in MOST cases the refusers, the intimacy adverse, the non-sexual party will have no interest in fixing anything. They are, after all, exactly where they want to be.

How is your tack record at making somebody eat who's just had a 2 pound steak with a side of fries and a huge salad? They won't be interested. It's the same in a relationship where one person is not interested in getting more invested, in raising intimacy levels, in being more affectionate, in looking after their partner's health and well-being on an emotional level, even if they care about the physical which is often not a given either.

Your chances are poor to start with. The only track record you can "blame" yourself over is for picking the wrong person over and over and over again. Like people who get beaten up by 4 successive spouses. You seem to be doing just fine, since you have managed to instigate good FWB relationships ... in my opinion.

best, -P.

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I've been at #3 for almost 10 years now with various partners or FWB, but this last year I had one get too emotionally attached to me. I had to break it off and that was difficult to deal with.

Thanks for your insight, it is so hard to be in this situation, it helps to read about others similar experience. I am considering outsourcing, actually I know I will if I find the right person. I need to feel whole, complete, desirable, wanted needed. To fill this sexual ache. I just hope I can handle it emotionally. Hopefully it will give me strength to move on with my life and quit hanging onto something that isn't worth hanging onto

In my experiences, outsourcing requires a lot of communication with the 3d party. If you are on the same page, with the same goals, and the same expectations it can be a wonderful experience. The pitfall that we can run into at times is when one of the parties changes their expectations. I have had outsourcing work for me before and I've had times when it's turned into a disaster. :) Great post.

I wanted a longer term solution to my problem. An affair love relationship and divorce helped me. Women have this biological dynamic which makes mechanical sex a little more challenging. Oxytocin -- a bonding hormone that is released when a woman a) nurses her baby and b) has an ******. It tends to mess up keeping things distant. It might explain why more men are available than women.

OnAlert, i am pondering if i agree with you. I agree about the hormones but... i think if a woman is honest with herself she is just as capable of having only sex. But perhaps she has to be clear and ok with whats going on in her mind.

Thanks, I really enjoyed reading this.

I know this so unds weird but I wish I had a place that I could post this for myself. I have left itup on my cell internet page because I find I want to reread sections and ponder them. I have been out sourcing for a while now and find myself on a similar course. I am not sure why I have feared the cconversation of outsourcing. Thank you for writing it.

Thank you for such a well written, concise and thoughtful post. It is almost my story. I think I am more emotive and mixed up. I expect you are now relieved, both from your careful way of writing and from the tone of your letter. So I would guess your changes have been for the better, as a result of your experience. I hope that is how you feel and wish you well for the future.

There is something so sexy about a neglected wife who "outsources" her needs omg

I am amazed you have written my story except I am not yet separated but that will happen shortly. I also looked outside my sexless marriage just to satisfy my sexual needs and I found far more because I became emotionally involved. I never believed in love at first sight but this was even before we had sex. It has completely changed me and my outlook on life. As you say I now realise what I was missing and it was far more than sex it was my right to a fulfilling life. Who knows what the future may bring but at least now I have a future to reach for and a life that gets me up in the morning. I can't speak for others obviously but don't live in ambivalence.

This is a refreshing view. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks. This is what EP is all about. I wish you well for your future.

Thanks for your post - I like the idea that you really thought this out.
I too am in a sexless marriage and have thought this out - for me, there were other issues to add to the pot: 1- having only ever had sex w/my husband and wondering what I would be like w/someone other, 2- the very real possibility that I may develop a physical disability as I age (I have MS, though you wouldn't think so now to look at me), and wanting to enjoy my body while I can.
So I made enquiries, and a friend got back to me w/a name and number of a man who deals with the sensual needs of women, usually in the context of getting victims of abuse back to their own body. But he's happy to help most causes!
The idea of paying for a service appeals to me if only because it takes out any emotional transaction, and it becomes a purely beautiful physical exchange. I don't see him all that regularly (most often it's just a sensual massage), and in the meantime my husband and I are seeing a counsellor - we have kids, and I do love him, but I have told him: not only will I not have an affair (my own original family fell apart because of one), but things cannot go on as they have i.e. little or no sex for the last 9 years. Our marriage is heading for the rocks unless our situation is resolved one way or the other.

Elkael, I hope your form of MS is benign (as mine is) or at least minimally progressive.

I have the EXACT SAME FEELINGS about wanting to enjoy my body while I can. In my case, because my wife "is just not interested" in sex (or me and my naked body, for that matter), I have become a nudist and a figure drawing model (nude posing).

Both have been terrific for me. I can be naked around other naked people (nude beach) and not have to listen to my wife telling me to put some clothes on (she would never consider going with me, of course). Also, I have become a successful, well-established nude model at a dozen different colleges and studios, with plenty of repeat business - and I'm getting paid to get naked! The nude modeling has been a great ego boost for me, as I apparently am quite good at it (and I do work very hard at it, too). The artists have been very complementary about my looks and my poses, which is incredibly rewarding.

So, I have found a way to get myself some validation that I look OK naked, get compliments on my body, get paid for people to look at me naked(!) and am accepted as a "normal" human being by other nudists.

By the way, did all things sexual come to a screeching halt soon after your diagnosis? That's what happened to me...

Great to hear that you're appreciated for being in your birthday suit....I draw several people here on EP so look into My Drawings gallery if you're interested in artwork.
And by the way,as a high sex-driven male who's lady has switched off...I model for other women in the nude...except they can't draw,but I have been complimented for my poses!...haha! Outsourcing is Oxygen!

Oh, Awesome! This is the kind of thing I meant when I wrote my "What we CAN do" story:
"(...) 1. Work A LOT on your self-esteem. With or without a relationship you are going to need that. Always. (...)12. DO expose your body to pleasant experiences other than sex. You need and deserve those endorphins so engage your body and spirit in physical activities. Try new things. Do yoga. Dance. Sweat. Find contentment, confidence, freedom and sexiness in movement. Stay curious and adventurous about how your body works and expresses who you are. Let your body tell other stories besides the SM one. DO not forget nourishment, too, so groom yourself. Do not spare your body from the appreciation of yourself and others."

I just now finished reading your "What we CAN do" post for the first time. So well written and so well thought out. I came to a few of the same conclusions through trial and error - now I can just follow your checklist!
Thanks for your "Awesome" comment! It's really nice when one of my stories rings true with someone else.
I love your #12 - do EXPOSE your body...LOL! While I know it won't work for everybody, it sure does work for me.

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Great here. I'm much older, still have the fire, wife with chronic illness and no libido. Have had a couple FWB experiences over the years. Have found that with my conservative background, finding someone like me is difficult. Any ideas?

Ashley Madison?

Very good analysis! I had an affair for 18 months. It was the greatest thing I've ever experienced. No, it didn't improve things at home. At all. I can honestly say that things are worse now than they were before the affair. But I did fall deeply in love. I wasn't willing to leave my situation. We talked about it (my affair and I), but I am the one with younger kids, living parents, financial constraints, so I put the brakes on that route. Things ended sadly, but I'd go through the whole thing again because it made me feel alive. I've tried to replace him, but I can't seem to. I'm told that time will heal my sad wounds. I'm hoping. But again. Im not sorry I did it. I wish I could be in the #2 club. What about an open relationship? I would like to have the courage to ask for that. Maybe I'll hold a metaphoric gun to his head and say that he can agree to that or a divorce. But who knows if I'll ever have the courage for that. It just sucks to be rejected this way.

Wow... I too wish for the open marriage route.

What a great post. Insightful and true for some. I really wish all the conversations with my wife paid off with a change. Outsourcing it is...and will be!!

Thanks for the reasonable yet life-affirming take on this delicate question. Everyone in this forum is facing one side of it.
This is an extremely good point: finding a suitable bed partner can be as hard as finding a husband. Plus, it can be dangerous, too, because there is very little to know about who you may be dealing with.
Lately the isolation I experience from not having any intimacy is leading me to be more and more disengaged from my marriage. Although I still have love and admiration for my husband I am starting to realize that my natural cooperativeness in the relationship is failing, as a symptom. Which sadly yet implacably directs me towards #2.
Sometimes I consider #3. However I have not met any man, REALLY, that catches my attention for more than two minutes. I even wonder - what if? Well, maybe I would have the hell of a good time. Maybe if I happen to have sex these days AND like it it I would be so grateful and alive that it would speak for itself. But once the sex would be over, what would I do about it? For a while it would be powerful, magical, transformational. In the long run, that alone would not solve my problem(s).
Also, once I get alone and unmarried it' s more likely to find available sex than love.This is actually the most scary part, because it seems to me like I never had both in the same relationship.I don't quite envy my friends who are having sex yet suffer in unstable and poor relationships.
I do hope to make my move as a #2. So God help me.

This is exactly how i feel! the same fears - where do you find a compatible 'bed-fellow', and more importantly, what after?
"Also, once I get alone and unmarried it' s more likely to find available sex than love.This is actually the most scary part, because it seems to me like I never had both in the same relationship.I don't quite envy my friends who are having sex yet suffer in unstable and poor relationships."

Holy crap, we are living parallel fates! Thank you for putting this so eloquently! I agree, thinking you are the only one going through this is terrible. Your story helps me realize I am not the only one.

When you feel like you are the only one with this situation. I seem to have found people of same experiences. Thank you for your story this story has enlightened
My life

Thank you Enna.
This is the best thing about EP, just when I am at a loss for expressing my feelings a story seems to pop up that clarifies my thoughts. Your remarks about an FWB hit home. I have been considering it especially after a frank discussion with a beautiful friend of over 10 years. She made it clear that she was looking for some "fun" outside her marriage. I don't believe I have the ability to separate sex from the emotional side. To me sex and love are intertwined which makes this damn SM so hard. For what ever reason I have been getting flirtatious remarks from women at work lately which helps the ego.

"sex and love are intertwined which makes this damn SM so hard" - exactly. Ironically, they are typically not intertwined for the refuser.

Jim, and you think you'd have to separate the two ... why?

The FWB acronym's first word is 'friend'. That's the whole point. Can you not love your friends?
[I'm just being provocative here, but with a reason].

@Petrushka, good point. I do love my closest fiends, male and female. I was erroneously assigning the FWB to a ****-buddy status where friendship does not factor. The trouble then with an FWB is that I would want to share my experiences with FWB friend with my family and other friends. I can envision that being a major problem. If a person has to be a "secret friend" then I feel they are either being belittled or I am not trusting my other friends. Seems like a lose-lose scenario. Thanks for the provocative point of view.

Enna is spot on from my life experiences. As to these questions you have to be able to trust your FWB - so they have to be friends. To have a long term experience that in sum makes any emotional sense, you also must be able to completely compartmentalize your life - without guilt.

That is an odd combination of abilities for two sane people. When it works it works - else the emotional fireworks are pretty impressive.

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Thanks Enna, you speak the truth. As one who's been and is on this road and not sure where it will turn out, I appreciate you paving and sharing the road.

This sure summed it up for me. After many many of years of feeling so neglected sexually and emotionally I finally succumbed to an affair. It was exciting and I could not get enough of him. I started developing feelings...looking back I realize it was not love. I was just so starved for what he gave me. It was like a drug that I wanted more and more of. The affair lasted 6 months. I was left feeling utterly devastated. The sadness of a lack luster marriage was no comparison to the deep depression this brought on. But I got through that and decided on another affair, but could not go through with it. I realized I truly only wanted this with my husband. It was never going to happen. In the end we divorced. He did not want this, but also did not make any real efforts to try and keep us together.

Its so interesting how we women that find ourselves in an affair are seeking the same things from our lovers. So starved and deprived, we develop feeling for the other person, which only leaves us worse of than we were before. I'm talking this path right now. Who knows, maybe I'll be divorced by next year.

Thats the thing. If one is simply after a root, then this could go ok (but usually doesn't because continual rooting tends to make you develop feelings for the other, which will spin the thing out of control)
If one is actually after intimacy, then one is really looking for a new primary relationship.

You have a very good point there, I think thats actually exactly what Im seeking.. subconsciously at first, but I get it now..

SeaOfHope, you say that you realized that "..I truly only wanted this with my husband".. but is that really true? Wasnt it just so that none of the two other lovers provided that intimacy for you (they just wanted the sex) so you went back to your husband for it? Its a safe place to go back to, and you know he is there to provide intimacy in your lonely hour.. However, the quality of intimacy provided by the husband can be questioned though, because as bazzar so correctly put it here below: we're really looking for a new primary relationship. Why else would we long for intimacy from our lovers/other men? I'm only making this point as Im exactly where you were. I'm not judging at all, just shedding light.. And I really believe if that if my lover provided the intimacy I want from him, my marriage would VERY likely end very vey fast.

I have a dear friend who had an affair while in a relationship with who she thinks was the love of her life. When she finally told him, he broke up and they never spoke to each other again. She then tried to work on her relationship with the former lover, and it never took flight. They are breaking-up now.
I live in a sexless marriage and it's though.
I just wonder if there is a point in life when we have to commit to a decision - being happy no matter what. Those are the marriages that work.

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Having an affair is wrong any way you slice it. He will find out. He will be crushed. leaving him will hurt him badly. betraying him like that will destroy him.

Kiddo, you\'re missing the point of this article completely. Sorry.

Whatever you say....

Some men wake up and become more attentative,some get excited,others become trapped....but at least it\'s better than sitting around and doing you\'re partly right.

Raven, afraid I agree with petrushka. You missed the point of the story. Besides enna30 saying specifically "I have no intention of addressing this ssue from a moral or ethical viewpoint", I read this as a cautionary tale from someone (who I respect) who's been there, done that. In fact, enna30's story has made me completely rethink outsourcing and I am no longer considering it. BTY, sorry to read about your own crushing relationship story. Hope you can shake the depression.

I did.

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It's not for you. don't do it.

What I like about this subject is that it's titled 'Outsourcing your Needs',and that's the root of any need for anyone.Let's say we change the subtitle,'I live in a Sexless Marraige' and replace it with, 'My job doesn't give me Satisfaction'....well suddenly everyone will be in agreement,change your job,look for another one but still remain in your current job,get two jobs...why not three!...better still,start your own business!<br />
Then we can look at why some people have two cars,two houses...more than one pair of shoes,(you can only wear one pair at a time),sprawling wardrobes and 'Stuff' that we don't need or even have time to look at.We have thousands of photographs that most we've only seen when taking the picture,after which they're archived forever!<br />
<br />
So perhaps 'Sex' has been placed in a 'Have Box',something we need to include in our everyday consumption,like a diet product or a booster for energy,a bonus raise so that we can comfort the endless 'Unsatisfaction' we feel everyday because we're convinced that 'More' is obviously 'Better'. <br />
<br />
I have a zero sex activity with my lady,thought it wasn't normal,thought I was owed it,thought that we were disfunctional....but I'm considering now the possibility that 'No Sex' is a normal state,and that 'Sex' is an option from which I can choose.Creating this 'Choice' has given me the freedom to choose,because with a 'No Choice' approach,I'm trapped...and we all know how we feel when we're trapped. We get angry,sad,stressed and depressed,and place ourselves in the 'Victim' seat,strapped down so that we can hardly breathe,as we mutter and stammer our discontentment to others in the same boat.<br />
<br />
I totally agree to 'Outsource Needs',but I question the fact that it may be part of a 'Collective Brainwashing' on consommation,constantly told that if we do not adhere to 'Consume',then there's something disfuctional in our make up.<br />
Now here I sit blurting out my 'Out of the Box' thoughts,but if my lady were to slip up behind me after years of iced over abstinence,stroked my hair and began to tickle my neck with a soft kiss...I might just delete this comment and empty my sex credit card to an alarming overdraft!!!<br />
<br />
'Freedom of Choice' is my new abode concerning 'No Sex',and with that I'll switch off this virtual microphone and step down.

So true

<p>Well considered. Well said. Well written. <br />
This is remarkable. To me. <br />
Wish I read this in 2011<br />
I have a lot to consider now. <br />
Thank you.</p>

So I found the FWB, but turned out that I'm too emotionally unstable and vulnerable right now to be able to handle the situation (because of whats going on at home, and how its reached a boiling point). I started developing feelings for this guy. I had incredible highs (awesome sex) but extreme lows of loneliness and anxiety when the FWB didnt show me as much attention as I needed. So, I decided to pull the plug. It wasnt worth it to feel all those negative feelings. I am now one week sober from my obsession, with no contact with him. He was the last to contact me so the ball stopped in my court - which it HAD TO for me to be able to shut this down. Control freak? Probably. I still think there's a risk of relapse (contacting him), but I feel pretty confident as of today. I think this can only work for me if I develop NO feelings whatsoever for the FWB. Which is kind of a catch 22: there must be "something" there for me to want to **** him. I still have my eyes open, but will tread carefully..

With all due respect,you\'re not loosing control,the FWB is not a drug,there\'s no \'Relapse\' when contacting someone you appreciate....never feel guilty because you gobble down a choccolate eclair when on a diet,doctors say it\'s good for you to \'Indulge\' void of any guilt wipe that dirty stain from your mind that anything that\'s good for you,should make you feel like a drug addict,criminal or guilty as charged.
It\'s okay to feel good,it\'s okay to feel down....what might be not so fun is not accepting how you feel as being an integral part of your \'Build Up\'.
Think it,Dream it,Do it Live else can live your life as good as you\'re doing it now!

Bet you\'ve got a smile on your face as you\'re reading this....aha!..accept who you are,then go out and do it on purpose!

I appreciate your point, thank you for making it. I do agree with what you\'re saying. I\'m simply staying away because I do not want to get hurt. I turned out to like my FWB more than he likes me (I think..) and I don\'t want to put myself in a position where I don\'t feel in control - this type of situation needs to be under control in my opinion, or you\'re soon risking more than you should.

Crossroads, I think the real problem is that your FWB wasn\'t. And what you said about your having feelings for him being a negative .... well, um - maybe you are just looking for a ****-buddy?
I have been in the situation in the past where I had a sexual relationship with a person outside my committed relationship, in fact it predated the committed relationship, but we were friends *first* and lovers second in terms of importance of that relationship. And we stayed friends many years later when we stopped being lovers.
Once you have that basis: friends first, lovers second, then you also lose the anxiety in my experience. You don\'t necessarily mind if you do not hear from your friend for 2-3 weeks because they might be up to something else. At least it should not put you in a funk - in my world, that is.
That kins of no-attachment no-feelings no-affection kind of sex that some people pursue is just meaningless for me; sex is a way of expressing affection, attraction, love and caring and it is all about feeling close and connected - you take that away and there is not much left, i.m.o.

Very good point. Thanks for writing :)

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How does one find a "suitable candidate"? I don't want to pay for it - that's just creepy. I want the emotional connection, too. I want to cuddle afterward. I want to hug and kiss. I want to be able to open my soul to someone without fear of being attacked emotionally. Why is it so hard to be loved?<br />
<br />
The cuddling afterward is almost better than the act itself. There's something wonderful about that kind of closeness.

Haha! They\'re not candidates,there\'s not a list of questions to get need to be \'Available\' that\'s the who are wounded in battle can be seen a mile away! You need to boost your totesterone by eating some,find out where you can buy it,hang out in male dominated environments,don\'t sit with the women when at a party,learn to fart again and don\'t wash as often,women get high on the smell of a man......forget the hugs and sloppy kissing,hold her arm firmly when you talk with her,don\'t hesitate....once you\'ve become \'Available\'....then they\'ll start to flitter around you like bees around a strawberry pie...then you simply pick the shyest one and **** the living daylights out of her....she\'ll thank you and shower you with gifts,kisses and lot of cuddles the next time you meet with her....DANGER!...don\'t forget that between cuddling that you MUST **** her until she cries...this will justify the cuddling.
So,don\'t look anymore,make yourself \'Available\'...and when your wife sees you full of confidence because you\'re getting your **** sucked everyday,she\'ll wake up too and begin to get horny....simply because you smell of sex!

I\'m fairly sure this is not a serious reply. \"Don\'t wash as often\"? I doubt that would work.

Is there anyone who can offer a serious reply?

Then just look at the research that has been done on how men and women are attracted to each\'s nothing other than smell.....but if you feel I\'m not a serious EP member then so be it......

I am not questioning your seriousness as an EP member, Bandulu, and I am familiar with the premise that the sense of smell plays a very strong role in sexual attraction. I just find it difficult to believe that NOT bathing as often would be beneficial.

I don\'t go out. I don\'t go to parties. I have no friends where I live. We moved here to be near HER family.

Sorry if I seem a bit tetchy. My brother just died a couple of weeks ago.

First of all,it\'s so easy to be in a conversation and try to prove that we\'re right,so let\'s drop the testosterone odor factor and women\'s attraction magnets....that\'ll be for when you\'re ready.
But if you\'ve moved to please her,but it doesn\'t please you,then perhaps this is an important element to include in the\'s cut you off from your \'Spice of Life\',and is ebbing away at your self confidence and joy of life.....from what I can gather,time to make a decision....a BIG decision! First of all you have to return into the context from where you came,see how you feel,emotions ,friends,family etc. Then go back to your wife and her family,write it down on a piece of paper,the 10 points in favor,10 against.Do this for both environments and then you will see perhaps why your lady is refraining,(Usually they\'re angry at someone and simply clam up),or ask yourself the question ,\"Am I happy with myself?\",same again,10 points positive about yourself on a piece of paper and 10 points negative. Now sit down with your wife and ask her if she can add to each of your 4 lists,or substract.
Once you\'ve brought up the outline map of the situation,she\'ll talk,you can express your feelings with reference to the lists,don\'t go off on an emotional joyride,facts in black and white.......and my friend you might find that your wife is on your side after all,you might find her in your arms again,and she\'ll look at you in a completely different way....equally you\'ll see her in a different light,hopefully candle light!
But if you sit and do nothing,it\'ll be like \'Waiting for Godo\'.....and we all know that Godo never comes right? Provoke an action,you can screw up,but you can also rectify a it for the person you feel will have approved your action,sad as it may be....he\'ll guide you to a new path,where happiness is an everyday affair.

Don\'t dig any something higher!

If I am understanding you correctly, I think I can do that. The first step would be to go back to my \"own\" environment. I need to do that anyway because I have not had a chance to see my family after my brother died earlier this month. I missed the funeral because I was in France due to work, and I have not been able to take time off since my return because of the same situation that sent me to France in the first place.

I\'m sure my wife will be happy to add to the list of negative things about myself and cross things off of the positive list. I\'m not sure how much it will help the situation, though.

I need to consider what you have written a little longer. Thank you for taking the time to write out your suggestions.

Maybe you should run off and respond in an area you know something about. It is crystal clear you do not belong here.

Why don\'t I belong here?

It wasn\'t for you it was @ Bandulu

There are some things we know,some that we don\'t know,some that we think we know...and some things we don\'t even know that we don\'t know....but all I know is what most have already forgotten!

And the Lord said \"Let there be light\"....Amen

Title of group; \'I live in a Sexless Marriage\'
Subgroup title; \'Outsourcing your needs\'

....the door is just over there sir,don\'t call us....we\'ll call you.....ou pas de tout!

Oh, boy, I miss the cuddling so, SO BADLY, that sometimes I even believe I´d set down for cuddling with no sex, provided the cuddling would bring the emotional connection. The hardest part is that, when you have physical and emotional distance blended in your marriage.

The cuddling builds the emotional connection, and that foundation is the one on which great sex is built.

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I have been outsourcing even when sex was happening.....just it case it dried up,and it I'm assured that my desire and libido remains intact.
She was hot and horny at the beginning...then I used to make love to a sleeping wife for 10 years,then kisses were reduced to icy pecks,elbows in the night,then "Stop it!" was her daily vocabulary,then she slept on the sofa for a year,now I'm in a different apart from the odd slippery adventure from now and again,I really think that I should spice her drink and have my wicked 'Insourcing',because I really want her....not having to dress and go out to meet up with someone else.....I want to be cosy at home!

So I think that it's not just about sex really,it's about the cosy intimacy that's being refused....that's the annoying part!


Do you not place money in the bank,even when you have enough to spend...or worse than that,seek other ways to earn more than you can spend or need?