Is This How She's Felt For The Past Ten Years?

For the first ten years, it was pretty standard fare. I wanted, and she refused. I wanted desperately, I tried everything and anything. I really loved her, and wanted things to work at any cost. I couldn't understand why things weren't happening. How could she not reciprocate? How could her style of love be so different?
A little more than a year ago I started to give up. I started to withdraw from my wife a bit more and focus on myself. About six months ago I stopped any attempts at initiating sex, intimacy or touching. More recently, I was surprised to discover that I no longer found my wife attractive. For the first time since I met her, I couldn't think of her in a sexual way. Yes, technically she was still attractive. All her attributes were the same, physically nothing had changed, but I just couldn't see her as "attractive" anymore.
Now it's easy to go without sex with her because I no longer find her attractive. I broke the habit. Then in a moment of clarity, I realized I was now as detached and uninterested in her sexually as she'd behaved for our whole marriage. Wow. I finally found out why she hasn't been interested in me all these years, I finally know how she feels. This has been a HUGE turning point for me. She really never loved me the way I loved her, the way I needed to be loved. I'm angry that she just didn't tell me that she felt this way. Why did she lie and make excuses all these years? That one I may never figure out, and as is often said here, the "why" does not matter. Experiencing this feeling of relative indifference to her has been enlightening, and will be a key element in moving forward.
Your refuser really doesn't love you. If you can't get your head around it, try thinking of a relative (brother or sister) and the feeling that you have for them is pretty close to what your refuser feels for you. It seems simple and obvious now, but I just wasn't getting it before. So wonder they avoid sex with you at all costs! There's nothing to fix here.
Your sexless marriage isn't a case of them inadequately expressing how they feel about you, it's a case of them expressing exactly how they feel about you.
TheWendigo TheWendigo
36-40, M
262 Responses Jun 29, 2011

WOW! Profound is an understatement. I feel like crying for you but hope you can resolve this and find the woman you seemingly deserve.

I think this is a great post, with one possible exception: If there are young kids, the wife may love you to death but still have no libido. Everything in her body is trying to protect her from another pregnancy too soon. And she may be "touched out" from the kids. It's times like these where sexual spontaneity is a myth and sex takes work and planning. But if she's unwilling to do that, I totally agree with your post.

Could not agree more with what you say here. You could have been talking about my life. I was very lucky; I got out in four years. Even better, my GF and I found each other not long after and now I know the difference. WE (she was in the same boat) have found in each other and with each other all that we were searching for.

No matter what, it just hurts because he doesn't want me or desire me.

Perfectly put and sums up my soon previous relationship - despite asking he never was a game to tell me how he felt , actually he seems irritated that I'm leaving go figure

Mine was one pist off refuser when I left.
He no longer had his punching bag around, poor baby!
What's a refuser to do ??!!!!

And that's why it is so difficult to accept and get out...

Add a response...

Wow. Why has this not really been brought up before? It makes total sense. I think this explains a lot.


Wow ! I never thought about in this way before. Thanks .

So true.

SO TRUE: "Your sexless marriage isn't a case of them inadequately expressing how they feel about you, it's a case of them expressing exactly how they feel about you."

She (ex-wife) had lots of hangups and I begged her over the years to get counseling, she wouldn't. I lived this original post for 35 years until I told her we had to fix things. So we did counseling for 9 months, then she filed for divorce. During my marriage I was tempted many times to wander. Now I've found a woman who is likes to make love and express the physical part of a relationship. It's satisfying and I have no desire to wander, she meets my needs and I meet her's. My advice, don't stay in a bad marriage that isn't going to change. You can't make anyone change anything, they have to want it for themselves. I stayed way too long and wasted some good years.

Sorry for your lonely 35 years ... but you seem to have a happy ending!

I am glad you found the truth and moved ahead to find something more satisfying.

"then she filed for divorce". I recently posted an epiphany I've just had - refusers are spineless worms. They don't want to break up, so they make you miserable in hopes that you will. That way, they can hold their head up high to the world, as if they were the aggrieved ones. And they get the pity or whatever.

Looks like the counselor "de-wormed" your wife.

Mine still stated toward the end that he loved me in a way I "Just didn't know". Yes, He loved how I gave to the point I was unraveling as a person. He loved how I obsessed about the relationship at the expence of myself, my sanity, my self respect. He loved that codependent person who was willing to die a little bit everyday. RUN

2 More Responses

Hi, what u say is so true, my common law hubby, doesn't love me either, a peak on my cheek. It's been over one year. We get along fine, in everyday stuff, but min the bedroom we just sleep, maybe cuddle but no sex.
I love him and it hurts me that he can't love me for who I am, I gain weight 170 lbs and he says I am too fat.
I tried to loss weight, I just can't lose more than 5 lbs,

If you truly love a woman you love her at 120lbs or 220lbs! Drop him and find a man with the courage to love you as you should be loved. This is his problem, not your's.

surprise, asexual people exist.

The real surprise is not that they exist, rather that they must be a bunch of first class cvnts the way they go around marrying sexual people under false pretenses. You're welcome to be as asexual as you want in bathroom stalls, behind dumpsters, in the backseats of cars or in the dark corners of movie theatres. Deceitfully bring it into a relationship with someone who is not asexual though, and you should be boiled in your own oil.
That said, most cases of sexless marriage (including my own) do not stem from the asexuality of one of the partners. To posit so smugly that the mere existence of asexuality should stand alone as some acceptable explanation for a sexless marriage is outrageous.

Thank you Thewendigo

Reading through the comments, I'm relieved to see that this place is just as full of trolls and idiots as it was 2 years ago when I left. Sincere thanks to all those that posted thought provoking comments here, and my condolences to those who remain clueless, but not silent. Some people will just never get it, and most of the members of this group are/were married to such a person.
I'm happy to report that since I posted this story, I've been able to extricate myself from my sexless marriage. I've posted a brief update here:

I am there.. I made up my mind some time ago that I was done.. I will never ask again.. it was a very liberating decision. I told her at the time, that a man has to know when he is just beat.. and in this I am beat.. I can not fix it and you are right.. now I am sure I know exactly how she has always felt.

Except I can not quite get over the nagging feeling that it is deeper than that with her.. I honestly believe she would be like this regardless of who the guy was.. it is not that she is not interested in sex with me.. she simply is not interested in sex, with anyone.. She has no frame of reference as to how bad it feels because she does not feel it.

Ok, where do I start?<br />
<br />
I guess the single best piece of advice I've been given concerning men and women is the following:<br />
Men want to feel DESIRED, Women want to feel DESIRABLE.<br />
<br />
Sounds like to-may-to/to-mah-to doesn't it? Except that with a little reasoning these work out to be two entirely different things.<br />
<br />
If a man comes home from work every day to be greeted with a smile by their wife and is never denied sex by her without a legitimate reason (like her period, sickness, or an injury); that man is happy because she makes him feel desired.<br />
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It's really that simple, women reading this--denying your husband sex makes him wonder if it's because he isn't good enough to please you or make you happy. Having sex isn't just like scratching an itch to us guys; sure, it feels wonderful, but most of all it reassures us that we please/satisfy you; and >>THAT<< makes us happy. It isn't something optional, we NEED that feeling.<br />
<br />
When a wife makes her husband feel desired, he's on cloud nine. He doesn't care what other people think about him if he has her unconditional love. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the kind of man who has this kind of relationship and decides to be unfaithful to his wife.<br />
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Women, on the other hand, want to feel desirable, which is a completely different ballpark. Unfortunately, it's a challenging one too. Feeling desirable is much more fickle than feeling desired, because humans are by nature very insecure.<br />
<br />
For example: let's say a girl goes to a social gathering and tons of people come up and tell her how pretty/beautiful she is. Then one guy tells her she's ugly. What does she do? Perhaps immediately she scoffs at him, ignores him, or insults him back, but as soon as she's in a bathroom alone, she's desperately checking her makeup and is seriously worked up. Why? Because we as humans are tuned to consider the most negative comments about ourselves to be the most honest. In a positive perspective, they give a sense of direction in having something to fix and improve, but in a negative perspective, they can lead to a downward spiral of worry about how many other negative things are true. This is the case even if the negative comment wasn't even close to the truth. And another thing, if a woman feels ugly, she isn't just unhappy with you, she's unhappy PERIOD.<br />
<br />
As her long time husband, you suffer the fact that she probably expects that you'll tell her she's desirable no matter what out of some romantic obligation, so the problem is--simply being the same and wanting sex with her doesn't set off her "feeling desirable" vibe and arouse her. You may need to get creative.<br />
<br />
First off, don't vaguely flatter her--she won't take it to heart enough to be aroused by it. Instead of simply telling her "You look pretty today", point out SPECIFIC things and say you like them. Even better, make those things you compliment things that change day to day, like "I really like that new dress you're wearing, it really brings out your eyes! :)" or "I love your new haircut, it's really pretty how it fr<x>ames your face." Compliments like that do two things, they are exciting and spontaneous because they deal with things that change, and they make the compliment more about YOUR opinion, showing her she's desirable to you as another person.<br />
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As far as being happy relationship-wise, girls want to feel beautiful, and want to feel that they captured a wonderful man and enraptured their heart with their beauty (I'm speaking for heterosexual women in general here, in case anyone wants to speak against this). And feeling beautiful is something that, a bit unfortunately, needs to be re-enforced externally. It matters what her friends think about her and sometimes even about you. If her friends make her feel ugly (some friends they are), she'll be insecure. In a lot of cases, if they think you're a loser, she'll take your opinion for flattery because you don't have options. Desirable men have options, and desirable men keep desirable women--at least that's the way girls see it. So what can you do? <br />
First of all, tease her and deny her more. If the woman knows for a fact you love her no matter what, she won't feel that you telling her she's pretty is the honest truth--it feels like an obligation. Make her wonder, make her think her desirability actually has something to do which her appreciation for you, and she'll be much more receptive when you do show affection.<br />
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Second, be somebody. You don't need to conquer the world, but show leadership and confidence in work and character to other people--particularly her friends. Give her friends the impression that you're a catch and she'll be convinced you are ;).<br />
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Lastly, be as spontaneous as possible. This kinda goes with the teasing bit. Be creative; try teasing her for a bit to make her wonder, then do something really romantic like giving her a gift or taking her on a surprise date to sweep her of her feet. Just make life more exciting :)<br />
<br />
Also, listen well, but talk less. It's not as romantic if she can always read you like a book.<br />
<br />
Best of luck everyone!

That was great...I think many people would be able to relate...the aweful thing when I met my husband...I had no business being in a relationship..I was just recovering from a traumatic injury...he, too, has had bouts of illness thru out his life...etc...point is we are roommates, I prefer it this way...he was not really my tye and I felt guilty so I stayed and stayed...I am not a bad person...I just did not want to let him down or hurt him...he was there, we were there for each other...I know he is attracted to me, but, I am not physically, intellectual, romantically attractived to him...and now, he is ill in do many ways...he can't see straight, to make a motivated decision...he knows as we discussed that I live in my home and that he gets a studio and we can be friends...just like we have been for the last 8 years...

Completely disagree, men do not want to be desired, men want to be respected and women want to be loved. I've never heard any self respecting man say I can't wait to find the women who loves me she'll do anything for me, unless that man has a vagina. Honestly, your issue was your wife didn't do what you told her to do as a woman should. I've never cared if a woman loved me, just respect me. That simple. Else I'm putting my foot in your a xx!

For me, yes, a thousand times, YES! The reason I have become a nudist and a professional nude figure drawing model is because I crave to be accepted and needed, as I am, as a man. I do not get this from my wife.

At a nude beach, I can be myself and complete strangers will talk with me and treat me like I'm perfectly normal and accept me as is. In nude modeling, they really appreciate that I am there for them and that appreciation is genuine. They tell me that I am a good model, with good poses, and are specific about what they like. They hire me for repeat engagements and pay me to be there for them. They want to see me naked! Not so with my wife.

Things would very likely be different if my wife did show the least bit of desire for me sexually.

That is brilliant and beautifully written advice. Thank you Michael.

1 More Response

Its good to read stories like sad as that is. I have been in a 'sexless' marriage now for as long as I can remember. It didn't start off this way but gradually made it to this point. This is the first time I'm really talking to anybody else about it. I met my wife in college and at that time we started off as friends. She was dating a friend of mine. She was somewhat promiscuous in college while I was not. So it took a while for me to get over that. I eventually did and 6 years later we got married. Fast forward to today. We have 3 wonderful kids and I am a stay at home dad and I work from home as well, while she works about 30-40 hours a week. We have sex about once every 5 weeks and its me who is always initiating. I initiate more than that but am often turned down. I am now at the point where I don't initiate anymore because it hurts too much to constantly be rejected. I have talked to her about this quite a few times and she gets defensive and says how she cant help it....women's think about sex differently than men. Now...I couldnt imagine ever rejecting her. Back in college when we first started being 'friends with benefits' I did rejected her once and she then found another guy she just met and brought him home. I keep thinking about that now even though its so far in the past. God....saying that now makes me wonder why am I with her?! She is very warm and compassionate but not to me when it comes to sex. She makes time for everything except making time for any intimacy. She works, does girl scouts, PTA, goes out with friends, but never is into making time for us. Id do anything to please her but no way am i ever reciprocated. I always feel like I'm the bad guy because I want sex and thinking that maybe once every 5 weeks is normal for married couples....but I know thats not the truth. She says shes still attracted to me and I am better husband and father than anyone else she knows, so then why do I feel so alone? Id love to hear any advice.

Sex is a normal part of intimacy in a relationship. It's not the only thing but it is an indicator of things. The problem is that we add a society have come to accept that part of being married and having kids is a decline in sex. Well I disagree. I have been in a loveless common-law marriage for 6 years. Before I got pregnant the sex was amazing. After I got pregnant he wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole. He said "it didn't work" but would never satisfy me or pleasure me in any way. As a former sex addict and hormonal pregnant woman I became increasingly stressed and insecure. He would say pleasure yourself but without being graphic, it's just not the same as someone willingly giving you pleasure. If you have ever tried to tickle yourself you would understand. Over the years we had sex in irregularly long intervals. It was quick and unsatisfying but I didn't complain because I was hungry for attention. It was a humbling experience to be the rejected. I thought my sexuality was power. Now it was gone. 6 years of being predominantly abstinent has cured me of my addiction and had thought me there is more than sex but sex is a beautiful natural fun thing between 2 people in love. Making each other happy should be s pleasure not a burden. If you need to ask for sex and it is always no no no then I suggest therapy or exit. It is not normal and should not be so widely accepted.

I'm sorry for what you've been through, but I don't think it's always a problem to do with emotional distance. Some people just don't have much of a sex drive. I went out with a guy who would only do "it" once a month or so, and it drove me crazy, but when I brought it up, he said, quote "I don't know what you're making a fuss about, sex isn't that important to guys, it's just like blowing your nose or something"- well, after we broke up, amicably, I met his new girlfriend, who, to be honest, is more suited to him than I was, and I think they've had a real connection for the last 4 years. She said he was just the same with her, but she didn't mind because they get on really well. What I'm trying to say is, maybe your wife totally loves you, in her own way. Doesn't help, but there it is

You have a point. I was I suppose a refuser. He cheated. I just never felt the same after that. I tried but I just couldn't. He doesn't really try much anymore. Sad part is I really do love great sex. I won't cheat and won't outsource so I guess I am just stuck with the way things are.

I feel hopeful that one day I'll meet a man, fall head over heels and have true intimacy, great sex, and be very happy. I'm not delusional. I know it's a tall order. Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.

Wow I was just grappling with the why and your post really hit home for me..

I am now coming up on 5 1/2 months without sex. I have tried everything, I clean the house for her, take her out for Dinner, spend all kinds of time with the children, yet I am refused sex of any kind. Maybe this explains it, but I have come to the point where I have given up. I only have one life to live and I want to live it with someone who values the sexual intimacy as much as I do. It is a crucial part of a marriage and to attempt to go without something that I value is akin to losing an arm or leg to remain in a marriage. Why do it?

Maybe try arrousing her with less intimate skinship instead of asking directly? Do you kiss often?

i admire your optimism inspite of everything.I think your wife is fortunate to have you.I just hope she can give you what you want.Sex is a form of intimacy and it is also a way to express yourself.I hope that you can rekindle romance back into your marriage.

<p>Wow and huge times two. "It's a case of them expressing exactly how they feel about you."<br />
This story is a real wake-up call for me. I have done exactly what you did: isolating myself from my wife, stopped initiating, doing other things outside the house without her, moving on with my life and not including her, no longer seeing her as someone I am attracted to.<br />
I still crave love from her, though. She uses the word love (sometimes), but not in the context that I do. She just says the words and I don't believe there is anythng behind it. There are no actions to support the words.<br />
The question for me, that I really don't want to even think about, is "Now what?"</P>

if she is not interested in sex then she has too face up too the problem which means either outsource or cannot remain in a poor situation forever

hey there everyone--why is there so much dysfunction in marriages nowadays and why does the sex become so bad.

she may night be interested in sex period.

Fantastic revelation! What will you do now?

You illustrated a good point there. I think often when the intimacy is gone its because the desire is completely gone. When you look at the person they hold no attraction for you at all. I think that's sad but at least you are able to move forward now.

She might be asexual person...who has no those needs at all.

I don't necessarily agree. Perhaps she has intimacy issues/ baggage from the past/ feel insecure/ dissatisfied with other aspects of the marriage. It could be a number of things. I hope you at least tried to communicate honestly with her about your feelings before assume it was because she didn't love you.

Wah I really feel for you bro. It's sad how people can conceal their feelings even when they share a relationship. How is it now? I really really hopes she changes and get tempted to have sex with you. I think you should try talking to her once more. If she still doesn't succumb, you have to learn to live without sex. Or find other alternatives. Don't lose hope bro. :-)

I'm really sorry this has happened to you...I could never to that to my husband. Although I really wonder why he never wants me...or why I've gone to all the trouble to make myself look trim for him.

" I'm angry that she just didn't tell me that she felt this way"
Hmm.. she may not understand it with the clarity that you understand it now. Therefore unable to tell you

I wonder if he has told her how he feels?

I have a question please, even when my hubby have sex with me it's supper quick and he don't even bother to ask if I'm satisfied or not !!! Ur a man what would u interpret that??

It's a very painful truth, it should be a wake up call for all of us!!! thanks for sharing :)

he doesn't love you ..its band aid sex. to cover up his fake love.

It is a very painful truth :( I wish I could understand it.

That is exactly spot on and after years of trying with someone I use to love I have now given up with them and see no future if they cannot be prepared to make the effort All my thoughts are now into when and how to escape such a dead relationship and start again in my late 40's. Just feel I have been robbed of the last 10 years, the only upside out of it is 2 fantastic children!

Exactly how I feel in my marriage, robbed... Sux living this way.... EP helps, hearing others going thru it... I hope u &amp; us, happy soon! :)

Guys, maybe we (as humans) are not psychologically designed to be in relationships for more than ... 10 years?

I think that, depending on how suited you are for each other, this becomes clear sooner or later. And it's nobody's fault, just the way things are. Blaming and feeling robbed doesn't helps, nor you nor your partner.

I have thought this before but cannot grasp it... it sux too much... but I think my husband simply has no desire for sex... man, I grew up believing thats all men wanted so I screwed up alot of years with him, waiting .. and here, some are happy w/sisterly love... this really sux!

I am very happy to hear that... And the best decision ever... Now I am jealous, confused, hopeful... R u havin fun in the daytime too :)... Hope so... Hope u get all u desire for being so brave!

My thoughts, my feelings EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

So that's why my wife doesn't want to have sex with me or be affectionate, I'm sick of rejection. The only reason I have lasted this long is for my two boys who I love dearly, but I can't stand this much longer, truly can't, it's like I'm alone so I may as well be alone, now to get the funds together to leave and get set up somewhere else. Enough is enough, this relationship makes me sad.

Ditto brother

My spouse does not love me. When that realization finally hit me, because I was where you are now. I was no longer interested or in love with him. All of a sudden I was reminded of one of our members here...anar christian... who always responded to all of our posts in one way. No matter what the circumstances were.... Anar Christain"s response was always...
"your spouse doesn't love you"...
I would get so annoyed with that. And then when finally, I was where you are now, I understood. I realized that...damn... anar christain was right all along...It is a very hard to understand and accept, until your there. But, the reality is, that for your spouse to be that disinterested in being intimate, well there is a very valid reason for that. And that one reason, no longer being loved is HUGE. We are determined to deny that answer no matter what. It is a very hard realization for us to accept.
yes, your spouse loves you, but not like a are a close relative....nothing more. There is no desire or sexual, I divorced.

The last line is the tell all. She is in fact telling how she feels without having actually said it, for whatever reason. Once you realize this it hurts like ****, but it is also quite liberating to clearly know where you stand. Look closely at other aspects of your marriage-relationship and you will see it as well. I have been told directly on more than one occasion after trying to discuss our relationship, that all she wants from me is not want anything from her. I have been doing this dance for almost 15 years now simply because I could not be without my children in my life every day-and my wife knows this and plays this card well. Now the youngest is about to turn 18 and I am still young in body and soul, so I feel I am finally in the position I need to be in to have the conversations on level ground and make some changes.


I am so glad to have stumbled upon this topic. I've spent quite some time reading many different stories for a 25 year old single male. It really intrigues me, and also helps me reaffirm what I'm looking for in marriage. Thank you all for all the stories and comments, and whatever your situation is, best of luck to you!

Menopause is her reason for a screeching stop to our sex. She said it's like a lightswitch. ( I thought she was talking about my ****) She feels that this is normal. I feel useless.

Thank you for this! I made a similar conscious decision about 2 years ago to stop initiating sex or discussions about it. Early on, my resentment was so deep that I kept hoping she would initiate sex just so I could turn her down (I know, kind of a childish and petty revenge scenario...). On the one occasion she initiated sex since then, I did not turn her down. However, I did not immediately fall into that emotional limbo of thinking "hey maybe things are going to turn around" and actually getting my hopes up.

In a way, it has been very liberating. Although I do still find my wife VERY attractive, and have good memories of our former intimacy, I am beginning to arrive at that turning point you so aptly describe.

Thanks again.

You know I never thought about it that way... I've started to feel that barrier between me and my partner forming from my side... I've never pestered him for anything because I'm afraid of the rejection.
When we first got together, he wanted it all the time and he used to get really angry with me if I was unwell or on my period. Now he's the one who's not interested, like after the 1st month or two he was not interested. Now he uses excuses like "I'm too old" or "I don't think sex is important in a relationship" or "I'm to stressed to think about sex". He had sex with his exes and even had a relationship just based on sex not long before he met me. He still watches **** every chance he gets and doesn't mind if it's me just pleasuring him
He always tells me **** like I'm attractive etc but if I'm so attractive to you, why don't you want to go near me? He told me a few weeks ago that when he hugs people (Incl me) he doesn't feel anything. I felt a wall drop between us. Now I feel weird on the rare occasions that we do hug. Shut down, like something in me died. I still love him as much as I always did but...
Thankyou for the insight.

I sure can feel your pain. My wife decided to stop having intimate relationships With me about the year ago. Same excuses Which is I'm not interested I'm too old I do stress tonight From work. I stopped before Christmas even Suggesting that we have some relationships as it made me feel depressed and rejected. I wish I had an answer for you because I am truly looking for one.

i'm looking for one too! my husband and I haven't slept together in a year! self worth and self esteem is plummeting fast, he's using too old, too tired, kids, my work it he has said it already...he's even perisistent it's not me, even though i know i gained a lot of weight,but i've always been on the chubby side though, well, 2kids after,still heavy..again.he said it's not's not that he has another woman coz timewise he's working and going home st

straight..i just don't low and confused right now..i love him and he's a good father and husband (minus sex)!

I know the feeling

Wow...somehow I was hoping to be wrong. Avoiding the truth doesn't get us anywhere. Thank you!

Wow!what an eye opener...thanks


congratulations on your 10th consecutive idiotic post. Flagged.

yes i interest to


iam yes

Every situation is differant and every relationship has its challenges. Sex is important but when two people have vastly differant libidos its not as simple as the partner who doesn't desire sex giving in to their partners needs. I tried. I would give my husband anything to try to ensure his happiness but after a while he felt I was only having sex for him and that was worse than no sex. Where do you go from there? I tried to "fake it" till I made it so to speak and he saw right through that. For those of you who are suggesting I don't love my husband enough if I don't desire sex with him are wrong. We've done counselling, I've also done counselling on my own but so far our differances in desire levels remain. Don't get me wrong we have sex, more frequently than some of those whose comments I have read here but not enough to truly forefill my husband. The sex continues to be as good as it ever was when we do (those are his words as well as mine) but teh frequency continues to cause us both to hurt.

This is a medical problem. Lack of desire is probably hormonal. The partner with no libido needs to see a doctor. This can be helped immensely.

At the end what does a person do.... I'm young 21 married... My sex life sucks my partner thinks its okai for a couple to have sex once every few months... But it's important to me... He knows this... I feel like its my fault but I don't know how it is... I'm cute I take care of myself I'm open to foreplay experimentation naughty lingerie... I feel hurt I feel not good enough and undesirable... Divorce came to my head but he is a good guy sweet kind and I feel like I'm being petty if I consider divorce but he's not making me happy and I don't know how long brushing it under the carpet n bottling it up I can take. Affairs Fwb, I don't really want to.... If he ever cheated on me jus the thought of it is like a cold piercing knife stabbing me in the heart it hurts too much... This relationship feels more and more like roommates living together... I jus don't know where I stand

<p>&nbsp;<p><p>I think refusing to have sex with your spouse is a form of emotional abuse. It's cruel and heartless to be so self absorbed that you refuse to meet one of the most basic NEEDS of human interaction. Sexual encounters with your spouse isn't just a desire. It's a physical, emotional and spiritual NEED. On one hand you feed him or her good tasty food. You help to keep the house clean. You make sure they are healthy.You don't get in their way when they seek enjoyment in other areas yet you refuse to engage in sexual intimacy? What kind of "love" is that? Emotions can hurt us considerablly more than physical pain and, rejection is a kick in the stomach to the person being rejected. It's like a roundhouse kick to the side of the head. Why not just whack her or him across their face with a 2 x 4? It wouldn't hurt nearly as much as your constant rejection of his or her entire person and, that is what you are doing when you reject them sexually. You reject their entire person. Whether the refuser knows it or not, their emotional abuse is destroying the person they supposedly love.</p><p></p>

I know exactly how you feel. However I am a female whose husband doesn't want sex. It is so hard to live with someone you love so much but not getting any emontional or physical interaction. We haven't had sex for about 5 years. I would be intimate with him everyday if he wanted to. For the past few years I've tried initiating and sometimes get what i want and many times am refused. So now I am so resentful that I've stopped trying at all. But I still would love for him to just come into bed and hold me or kiss me. It's amazing how much a person really needs human touch. I will leave one day. I'm too young to live the rest of my life in a sexless marriage.

That is what happens after being rejected so many times. You stop trying. So sad. It just shouldn't be that way. There shouldn't need to be a big deal to get a married couple started. That said, as we get older, it does take a little more on the wife's part to get her husband going. Since men are more visually inclined lingerie helps a lot. Role playing also helps. SOMETHING out of the ordinary but not always. Just the fact that your spouse is available and willing is enough most times in a normal relationship.

I am just amazed by the crazy idea most of you can come up with to make your view look so logical. If this is the case that the refuser is not refusing you because they want to hurt you but they just do not have the feeling for you then why in most of the comments on this forum people are just trashing their StBX? Everyone applauds when a refused is hurting a refuser by either cheating or by just verbally trashing him/her.

Some of you even say that the refuser is acting out of me. Actually what you are saying that the refuser was actually acting for you and not for me as he/ she was trying not to hurt you.

I absolutely love your take on this issue, as I'm in a similar situation myself. I've begged, pleaded, beaten my head against the wall, considered affairs, divorce, castration.... In the end, one thought that has helped me these days is this; "you can't fight nature forever...". May you find strength and a happy future...

So unfortunate what you are going through. I too can't figure out why that spark there was which lead to marriage has now dwindled. There physical chemistry, mental chemistry, spiritual chemistry, emotional chemistry which can be worked on for a happy union and both have to participate. At least you've made effort.

We've been married 31 years. Sex was difficult at the onset. We now only engage in sex maybe once a year. It hurts. I want to believe that it is okay but it is not. I am bipolar and deal with a menagerie of other mental illnesses. Her response has been simple. She has let me know that she will be interested again when I start to improve mentally, become normal, and when the last of our five children leave the house (only two left). I want to believe this but this has been the signature response since day one. I really feel for her. I know how difficult it is to be attracted to somebody who struggles with mental illness. How? She has been quite open and honest about it. She literally tells me this. How bad do I want to be sexually intimate? I would be satisfied with a hug. But even a hug seems to be a timed thing: begin the hug but after a few seconds, I get pushed away. I feel so bad for her. Yet, is it being selfish just to want to be held? Counseling? No way. Just my expressing the idea makes her shudder. She claims that all she is looking for is for us to be "on the same page". I have now become numb to that statement. Even with all the family around, I feel alone - just drifting. The danger? I sometimes feel lost and wandering without a means to come back (literally losing my identity).
Psychiatric help? I've been seeing a psychiatrist for over a decade. For him it has been a mind bender. Behavioral therapy and medication have just helped me to "maintain" not move forward. I am 54 now and I just want to be held by her and only her.
Sex? I don't kid myself. I just want to be held. It is now 3:30am and I can't stop crying. This happens every other night. Caution. I'm not looking for the "stop playing the role of the sad sack" response to this statement. Just pulling up my boot straps approach has never worked.
Thank you for letting me post.

or maybe u sucked at sex and she was too polite to say anything.... im just sayin, what if?

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I have been with other men who love my sex (I'm a woman!) and I even was with a woman... and I have been told that sex with me was amazing! With my new man I try and try and try and he just acts like he doesn't want sex. Once a month, if I'm lucky, for like 5 seconds!- and it's the most awkward 5 seconds of my life! I have asked him if there's anything that I can do differently... but nothing. No affecion. No sex. Dry kisses. No fingers. No nothing. And I feel so depressed, i don't know if I can handle this long term. Sigh. Anyway... if he sucks, then as a couple you work together to satisfy each other... The fun is not about doing it well, it's about doing it together. And as a woman, if there's something that doesn't satisfy me, I will tell my lover so he can work with me to make us happy... with this lover I got now... Nothing. UGH! I try and try and try and it hurts to feel rejected... to the point that I feel useless..

I wonder that also... I mean when I met my husband he wasn't very good... so I worked with him and communicated and told him exactly what I liked and found out what he liked and tried all sorts of things and now... 15 years later... he still isn't very good... I love sex but I don't love getting injured or awkwardly groped or choked (not in the fun way). Some people just don't have the skills...

Hopefully hopeful- you still around? I have P.E. Really bad and may have insights for you. I can't post on your whiteboard from the looks of it.

Well said.

Everyone this person was a troll, they opened this account just to write that. IGNORE.

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wow bro thats a bad one -sorry

Let cut to the chase shall we. In our society women don't have to do anything. They never are held to a single committment they make. There's always an out for them. If they want to just say they love a guy to get him to marry her and make him financially committed to her for the rest of her life, then that's perfectly fine. If she doesn't want to live up to her expectations in the marriage, again, that's pefectly fine. She can leave, take his kids, his money, his house and leave the poor guy she was married to with nothing, albeit, all things that he earned, ironically all go over to her. Or she can make the guy live without sex his whole life, something that a women is OBLIGATED to give her husband. Then you have poor soles like the one who wrote this post come to the conclusion she never wanted him all along. Now she never said anything about accepting all the things she took in the marriage, a free life, free house, a famliy etc.....But women have no obligations these days, nope, she is allowed to do what ever the hell she pleases and is free to screw up their husband's life as much as she wants...and there's not a thing he can do about it. Women make me sick!!! That they are allowed to get away with wrecking someone they said they loved...and not only that, they see the damage they do and rationalize it's ok!!! If a man did this and decided he no longer wanted to be responsible for ALL the costs of the family, he would be thrown in jail. Our great society is reduced to this...instead of finding ways to love each other, we find ways to hurt each other.

Seriously? Thrown in jail ?
Men do all this, and worse to women everyday!
You sound extremely bitter,just because ONE woman did these sort of things to you.
There are just as many women out there that have husbands doing the same things to them, it is neither a male nor a female trait.
I am offended when you say that women make you sick. We are not your wife and we have nothing to do with your misery.
I have experienced pain , caused by some men, but i do not blame all men for this.

It's not marriage that is to blame....It's people , time and biology..

it is clear that you have some deep serious issues with women. And that is sad. It is also clear that how you were raised has some bearing on those views. I am the woman living in a sexless marriage. And it is my husband who has lived loving me less than i love him. It is he who gets to spend all of his money how he wishes and i am the one who has been financially responsible for myself and the raising of our daughter. I have never taken from this marriage, only given. And in the end i will be the one leaving taking only the clothes I BOUGHT, the car I BOUGHT, the furniture I CAME WITH 23 YRS AGO, or I BOUGHT. He can have the house and all of his TOYS.
I am sorry that life has left you so violently bitter. But do not DARE to lump all women into some sick sad idea in your head. Some of us have devoted all we had and all we were to making a marriage work. and we have men who did not give as good as they got. The world owes me nothing and neither does he, except my freedom.

Good on you Luna, i wish you a very happy 2013.

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Sometimes they do truly love you. Sometimes there are issues that they may have that need to be confronted and totally change their thought process. An awakening of sorts. What does it take to get to that point? I think it differs from person to person. Some, if there is not true love, will never get to that point, but there are some refusers who can grow, understand, and change. I just hate to hear that you think all refusers do not love their spouse. That is far from the truth. I know what you have endured to some degree as my husband suffered for many years wanting more from me. My 2 a month or so schedule did not satisfy his daily need for sexual fulfillment and intimacy. This was his number one need and if the number one need goes unfulfilled for a period of time then there will be repercussions.

I totally get the discouragement and the anger and resentment someone would fill after yrs of rejection and be turned down. Sometimes there is no turning it around I get that. I just want to make the point that it's not true that every refuser does not love their spouse. I understand how you would conclude to that final analysis. I get the thought process here, but I love my husband like I did the day we married always have, even after his affair. I inderstand what part i had in pushing him into anothers arms. I had several wrong ideas of sex and the marital relationship plus I had no desire at all. I suffered from low testosterone for years and believe me once I got my level up it made a indescribable difference. It's hard for someone with a healthy or high sexual desire to understand just how low desire affects someone. I found this out way to late, but if your doctor doesn't help you how do you know what to do about it. I've learned a lot in the last 3 years, it may possibly be to little to late that's still unknown at this point, but I can tell you that I sincerely have a true love for my husband. I truly did not want to or try to hurt him. I would encourage serious, sincere, honest discussion and be very truthful about how you feel and what this is doing to you and how painful it is and just what your thoughts are on a future together. After so many years of denial and damage I know it's hard and it will be a lot of work for both parties. If you love one another it is worth it. Your family is sooooo worth it.

Please know that I have a sincere heartfelt ache for anyone in this situation because we have gone through some major hard knocks the last 3 yrs and he felt so hurt and rejected and did not understand why I did not love him in that way. I know that it's very painful on the refused side because I see what I've done to my husband, but on the other side, the refusers side, there may just be painful issues and they may feel terrible anguish, guilt and pain also. I've taken a real hard look in the mirror and have admitted my flaws and faults. Both parties have something they could improve on, something that they need to see in that mirror that needs changing. Being honest enough and aware of your own shortcomings to also make changes and also realize not to take each other for granted.

RRRW, because some people do not think or have emotions. There all emotions and thinking starts with sex and ends their.

Yes, your screen name fits you well. "Truly loving someone happens when you do whatever you can to make them happy even when it's not convenient to do what's required."

okay, so if I take this statement alone, but in context, than if you wanted it when she was doing dishes, she should stop and satisfy you? Does the same hold true if she's working at home on a work project, with a want it so screw her deadline and nerves about getting her work dine, etcetera.

what a Neanderthal.

Personally even in the years we were sexually active, if either of us didn't want it that moment, nether of us felt angry. And we "truly made one another happy" by respecting those boundaries, for lack of a better word. If everyone thought he/she was only really loved and cared for if their spouse reacted NOW to their needs and desires, well, I would think this is what you expect from everyone in your life. To be serviced, whether by a cup of coffee at work or a bj.

Its called communication, understanding, compromise, and not being a 2 year old who gets what he wants NOW. and now I see why you are so angry...

if your spouse's head is elsewhere, and not on you and you c*ck, God forbid, do you want pity/required sex??? Ewwww. That just sounds like a wonderful time. Yeah, maybe she'll ride you until you're satisfied, all the time thinking about the stuff she has to have ready for work the next day.

and let's turn this around, shall we? If you had your mind on, say, a nephew that was being deployed overseas, well, you'd better be able to get it up, because, as in your words, "unless you were unable to physically perform". You may think her timing is a bit off, but by your standards, you'd better get on your back.

Neanderthal. Are you by chance someone who calls himself a "Dom"??? THAT would explain lots of what you've said (this comment does NOT apply to all men/women who carry that title).

I just thought of is your female partner suppose to fake arousal if her mind isn't there at the moment? I'm guessing lube is a staple at your house. But what if YOU can't get it up because you're thinking about that nephew who leaves tomorrow? You've certainly broken your own rule. Hmmm. Now what, angryguy77? Maybe you agreed to have sex but your body isnt responding. But hey, it usually does, so you ARE healthy!

This topic is just not as black and white as you suggest. And I doubt you'll find any woman you will "meet" your requirements unless she's your "slave" or just wants something else from you and puts up with you mandatory sex rule to ger HER needs met. Is that the kind of relationship you want? Completely fake from her POV but she puts on a good show for you? Sheesh...

You are just another sad miserable person - and lack of sex has nothing to do with your own personal negative emotions.

You are wrong.
So you are saying if you dated a s*ut or cheater, he/she loved you?
Sex is an activity that only people with negative emotions "pride" with and "indulge" in.
BTW NO s*ut/stud make a good , loving and responsible parent.
It is not that she don`t love you, is that she have self respect and love for herself as well as others to indulge in negative activity - sex.

leonatan, you seriously have a negative view of sex......and the people who actually enjoy it.
Are we all ***** and studs to you?

To be honest, yes and it is not about my negative view of sex.Imagine if there was no sex on earth left for you, you will be like "damm it is the end of the world for me".That seems to be your mindset.

Absolutely........and i wouldn't be the only one..
Why do you think that there are so many men and women posting stories on EP.
about the lack of intimacy and sex in their relationships?
WE all class it as one of the high priorities in our lives!

It all make PERFECT sense now..YOU are engaged to you own brother ( not blood ,but your parents intended for you to be together ) and you say he is asexual...........Wow ...the rest of us thought we had problems!

leonatan what is wrong with you?. If you personally don't like sex fine. You are entitled to your preference. To state that sex is negative is ludicrous! Sex is physical communication and the physical manifestation of intimacy. To say that this is negative is to negate the reality of who we are as human beings.

Yes that means you are like what you called yourself, brainless.Maybe you are not even human but a robot?Lol.And happinesswinsxx, when did i say he is asexual.You all don`t need help, you people just need to jump off a building for being so useless!

Leonatan. Wait a few years. That's all.

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Nicely put together, i am in the same situation!

wow, this is really interesting. What if you refuse sex to someone that you're dating because you believe in abstinence before marriage? Do you think this may cause the same feelings of indifference later on?

My wife refused to have sex with me before marriage. We got married in '86, and we're still married. Although I wanted it bad, I understood what she was doing so it really didn't matter to me. Sex is much less important to me now than it was then, but it's still important. In fact, now she has a stronger sex drive than me. Funny how things change.

Abstinence before marriage is the stupidest thing ever. How many people get married just so they finally get laid? Then after they are satisfied they wonder why they got married. You should get married after you've found someone who is totally compatible with you, including sexual compatibility. Abstinence just prevents you from understanding that component of compatibility.

@brainburst, so now you are an expert on abstinence and its causes and effects? While I might agree that it is preferable, in MY opinion, to have shared that intimacy prior to marriage, there are plenty of couples who chose not to and are as happy as larks.

What happened to the notion that we ALL change over the years, due to scads of life circumstances, and because your partner doesn't make coffee the way she used to, well, you should have tested that out prior to marriage? My husband of 22 years and I were very sexually compatible, sometimes more feisty, sometimes less, for 18 years of you marriage. How in the world would I have known, or even he could have know, that 18 years later, he'd lose his drive???

I think your premise is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. It just isnt black/white.

I don't know how some of you live in society, work, have friends, etcetera, with some of the thought patters you have. Maybe a little Jekyll/Hyde?

Thanks for the post. I stumbled on this as a first time user looking for answers. After 16 years of marriage I can now see with some clarity. There is great wisdom in your words. I have tried everything from counseling to showering her with presents and affection. Waiting for weeks to months at a time for her to reward me with some physical affection. I have been reduced to a dog trying to please it's owner for a snack. I never understood it? Total clarity now, I am just a provider of a roof and food while raising our children and going through the motions.

For the peanut gallery who second guess the accuracy of Wendigo's post, I tried: picnics, date nights, weekend romantic trips (without kids), gifts both large and small (from diamonds to a car to lingere to candies), praise (both physical and mental), time between physical touch so that she wouldn't always feel like it was only about sex, flowers, getting her drunk, ****, cuddleing, dishes, cleaning, arranged time with her friends to get away both nights and long weekends without me, and countless other ideas. No matter how hard I try it doesn't change a thing! I know she loves me, just not "that way." The only problem is the three magnificent kids we share together and my incredible feelings of lonliness. I wish I had a cure but I don't think there is one end all fix. I just muddle through each day and make the most out of evry day hoping that she will once again fall in love with me.

Don't know if that makes me pitiful or a hopless romantic. When they said for better or worse, I wish someone explained just how bad the worse could be.

Your story touched me...I wish there was an answer for you too.
I too, wish that someone had warned us of the real facts of life, before we found ourselves in such a mess. I feel guilty being able to say that my marriage returned to the happy place that it should be ...I wish yours could do the same.
Was your wife always like this or did something change ?

I'm so sorry you feel as if you've been a means to an end. She may never have been in love with you, but I'll bet she lives you. You have 3 beautiful children, and she (assumedly) played a large part in raising them. Probably in loving them and nurturing them as children should be raised. I believe there are many people out there who really want to be in love with their spouses, and it just never happens. I don't think it is always a conscious decision. I have an ex-SIL who by all the facts and photos and memories in that small extended family (of which I was not yet a part) was a happy young married woman. Who was loving and in love. Somewhere along the way she became a "cold fish". Not overnight, but I was part of the family by then and we all saw it, but didn't recognize it for what it was. After her dad died, she was stone cold. Made us wonder if there was something inappropriate that happened in her childhood. Also, she was an only child of two older parents...perhaps she didn't have any guidance as to what love etcetera was supposed to be like...those kisses for no reason, a warm hug in the middle of the grocery store. A trinket here or there, for her mom or her.

so perhaps the way you have loved your wife, with all good intentions, was completely lost on her, and possibly not her fault, as it were.

I think in high school and college we see others around us and figure that is what love looks and must feel like. So we copy that behavior when we are newly married, not really sure what else to do. And then because the kids start coming, or whatever, we cannot keep up the subconscious "manuscript". I can't even imagine that kind of life.

but we all know there are plenty of kids growing up in homes filled with strife, being shown no love and therefore not learning what it is, being bullied at school, etcetera --- what are they to use as examples, who for role models?

My niece grew up in a family who's father constantly verbally abused ( with cutesie derogatory nicknames at which he'd laugh, telling her how to spend $ even though she brought in as much income as he did, etcetera.) my sister. (2nd marriage and he adopted my niece). My sis would laugh it off, what else could she do besides just break down and cry? He was/is a controlling SOB. Hey, guess what kind of man my niece married???? The eving of her grandmother's death, she had to ask her then fiance if she could drive 3 hours the next day to be with her mom and all of the family. And could she stay the weekend? WHAT???? And I heard that when they and their young son visited my brother, they were In the hot tub and when she rose to get out, he made fat comments. Had I been there...grr.

point is, she will never know what a happy, sharing, caring relationship is because she didn't grow up in one. And of course, just as her mim did, she had an inkling this treatment wasn't right, but we women, and maybe men too, would NEVER admit to family that there were issues in our marriages, for a myriad of reasons.

so...i don't know if your wife road tour coat tails all these years, or simply didn't know that your displays of affection (and you were wonderful, let me say!), whether from your words and feelings and physical love, or from the trinkets, were DISPLAYS OF LOVE!!!

IDK, it's hard to imagine that she'd be so cold, frankly, to your generosity.

And then there is that comment made up thread...what I feel is a display of love may not at all be what you are showing/giving me. The only thing to resolves that us conversation...and its hard as hell, but so worth it, whichever way it goes. At the very least, the air is cleared and you have answers. Orrrrr, your lifes can begin anew, and perhaps you will teach her what love is? Or you'll come to a meaning that works for both of you.

Compromise is a biggie. We hate to hear that, feeling we've been doing the compromising all along. Maybe we have. But if you like PDAs and I don't, they really make me uncomfy, well, we talk about where my comfort level would be...a kiss in the car? Holding hands in the mall? Just no huge hugs and kisses....I'm so uncomfy with people seeing that, like we are all over one another after all these years, we have no self control, how inappropriate, maybe people think were having an affair, and on and on... (my husband and I always held hands and kissed, right there in the aisle of the grocery store!)

I don't think this came off as a lecture (maybe more a novella) and I did not intend it to. I'm really hopeful for the two of you, or anyone else in your situation, to see if you can make it work.

and for the record, is it possible that, for whatever reason, your gifts of affection are a huge turn OFF? Have you asked if she enjoys those little things? Could be, again, that something from her childhood/past really hits a nerve when she receives loving gifts and gestures. Sounds odd to us but...?

if you're lonely, isnt it possible she is? Maybe she will never be in love, but maybe you can be the best of friends. And in my world, grinds talk and hug and even snuggle to watch a scary movie!


Reading your story made me stop for a moment, your experience is a mirror of mine. In a strange way it is comforting I am not alone here.

I'm afraid I,too, have to disagree with Purpleflowerchild. It gets much more confusing out in reality. I am 60 years old and met my wife when she was 12. We have been together since she was 16 and that included wonderful sex. I We weren't married for 20 years, real flower children from the 60's. We had no children and that was a mutual decision, so we can't blame kids for our sex life ( or lack of one). I am the dream guy when it comes to caring and sensitivity but I bring a history of depression to the mix. I know that this was one thing that killed her sex drive but, after the first year or so, when we just assumed when we saw each other it would end in sex if at all possible, she became 'once-a-month-or-less' woman. A big part of that, I think, is that she never knew if I'd be in a depressed mood and she felt she had to help me feel better because she truly loved ( and still loves) me. I have fought my way out of depression, without drugs, but only in the last decade and although I see my part in it, I still feel an immeasurable sadness and a sense of being ripped off ( not by her but by 'life' of 'fate' or something). I do know, just a year or two back, after I had tried to discuss it, she let me know I had been acting more confident in general and she found that very sexy. It didn't lead to much sex but it gave me more understanding. I was in school at 57 due to layoffs and i felt hopeful. I also tried to get her to join me in reading a pile of library books to approach the subject with no success. On top of that she loves me more than any woman could, and I her, so we aren't going out to find someone new, especially at our age.

Do you have a degree in the mental health field? Well, I know the answer to that because no one with any sensitivity says "you are wrong xxx" . You don't even know this man!!!!

Same goes for what caused/causes his depression.

Please stop telling people how wrong they are. I would hate for any of us highly susceptible sensitive people to think you were any kind of correct.

Just adding the words, "in my opinion" would help!

very interesting, where there is no emotion,no love, no attachment becomes sexless.I'll keep that in mind.

I personally wouldn't want sex with no emotion, love, attachment. Do you really?

I want sex more than my husband, but I think he loves me more than I love him. He doesnt want to be with anyone but me and the lids, but I wish he were more affectionate toward me. He got mad at me the other day because I didn't say "I love you" enthusiastically enough.

I wrote him an email (in anger):

I was very sexually frustrated and I was frustrated last night when I gave myself an ****** and I was frustrated when I kissed you this morning on the back of the neck and my affection was not reciprocated because I really wanted physical affection but I don't want to ask for physical reciprocation because it is counter to the state of affection. I would like it to be naturally reciprocal. So when you say you love me in the morning and you want a reciprocal non negative statement back I cannot give it because the affection tank is empty and I cannot summon the affection necessary for the enthusiastic response. When I don't get physical affection I feel very sad and angry and resentful that you want some type of I love you but I have not gotten to a certain physical state in order to say it with sincerity.

I hate going for spells without sex or cuddles. He seems to dislike being physically close to me. He will do it if I ask - sometimes - but even then he doesn't seem to want to.

He will kiss me when he wants sex, but won't touch me if I want sex. Or he doesn't recognize when I want sex. I always have to beg and that makes me not enjoy the sex or if I do I have to fantasize about not being with my husband in order to ******. I think that is pathetic.

He won't engage in non-kid related conversation. I try to recommend topics to talk about, movies or tv series we can watch together, books we can read together, etc. Nothing. He just doesn't want to talk. And at the end of the day he says he is tired. There is no time for us. And he won't make time. He seems to be addicted to reading things on the Internet. He also had low testoterone and stopped taking it because of terrible side effects. But he won't even cuddle or talk? There are days I don't want to be with him. I want a man to pay attention to me and want me.

I guess some things don't make sense when I write it out. You would have to see how the marriage works and how we interact in order to understand.

He needs to tell you what the heck he wants. Spell it out. Just words of love, ok, help me understand how that is enough for you. I'm not being critical but if that is all you want need, well, we have some decisions to make, some compromises to come to. Because you know I need/ want physical love and I need for us to understand our different ways of expressing love and how we can make it work for both of us. I love telling you with joy that I love you ... I want to say that to you often and with a true spirit. I need you to love me, it's not the only way to show your love, but right now my hormones are in control, or out of control, and I need and want you physically. What can we do to make both of us happy and more fulfilled in this area? Are you put off when I initiate? If so, how do I let you know I want you? And why?

re: T levels, I wouldgo back to the doc. Others had to have experienced the side effects. Frankly, the low T levels could be most of the problem. And that could be causing lots of angst for him...feeling less like a "man". Which we women know is utterly ridiculous...we feel no less like women no matter what our hormones are doing. We may not be in the mood.... But at least we have a better understanding of how hormones affect us, physically and mentally, and web can share that. We know it isnt husbands, let us help. You've had to put up with our hormones, let us help or at least be aware of your concerns, and then I'll know it isn't US being rejected, because we KNOW you don't want us to ever feel that way ;-)

etcetera, as if you haven't tried this, right!!! Is he a man who has to have all the control?

My sexless marriage is different from yours (in that I know he loves me to infinity), TW, but I get it, I get what you wrote. I wonder --- do you think she knew how she felt? Do you think that she lied all these years, or simply (ha!) didn't know what she was feeling, or wasn't feeling, and wondered why she wasn't feeling much of anything? I ask this more for you than for her -- I don't see you as the kind of guy who would enter into a marriage not as-fully-as-possible knowing the person with whom you chose to marry. (That was a compliment, but you knew that!)

I have to say, I feel for these people who lack the ability to feel intense emotion and complete abandon and on and on and on.

Didn't realize I'd already responded to TW, oops!

I just read this again, as I have been thinking about the truth of it. You are right, she does not love you. She probably did at one point, but she doesn't anymore. Intimacy is more than just sex. Intimacy is asking your spouse how her day went. or what her thoughts are on a certain topic, or bringing flowers, or taking her out. I am in charge of paying all the bills, doing all the cleaning and laundry, cooking, and making sure my kids get to where they need to be. When I am out of town, his world gets turned upside down because he has to be responsible. Does he miss me? No, he misses all that I do so he just has to basically "show up." And, including in showing up, he feels I should be ready to go. Keep in mind, there has been no flowers, no romance. Hell, there hasn't even been a conversation. Life at our house is all about him. So, after reading your post, I realized ....Yes,that's it, the love I felt for him has long ago disappeared. I don't love him anymore. It is what it is. I am staying because I decided I love my kids too much to screw up their lives. And, I have friends and am never bored. Would I love to be in a sexual relationship that is both loving and satisfying. Of course, who wouldn't? But, that's not in the cards for me right now. And yes, I actually in therapy right now, but he won't go because he is "too busy." But, you, you have no kids. WHY do you stay?

I love what you said about intimacy! I just shared the same thing with someone else earlier. I think it's a shame that no one teaches men that there is more than one way of being intimate &amp; that women NEED emotional intimacy. I begged my husband for years to take time for me, even just 5 minutes a day to sit down with me and ask how I was or if there was anything I'd like to talk about. He would never believe what I said I needed was real and legitimate. And because he stopped taking time for me except when he wanted sex, I felt like a piece of meat only used for his pleasure. His response? That he thought maybe I had something wrong with me chemically &amp; maybe I should go see a doctor! He truly thought that sex was the only way to show love and build intimacy. Very sad for him and very painful for me. Sucked.

Women need some classes too, I daresay, and I'm a woman! There should be classes, maybe in high school, 1st year, explaining how men think, how women think. For instance, my mom used to tell me that men are "fixers" and that if there is a relationship issue, they want to fix it...not necessarily understand it. Hmm.

I never read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" but I'm betting its pretty insightful, from all the press it got way back when. It might not have been her ideas that people were so excited about, but simply that SOMEONE was talking about it!!

The last sentence is the perfect summation of my marriage experience ; (
Thank you for putting it into a succinct expression that brings such clarity to my, and apparently many others, unfortunate situation.

I read many stories such as this, and wonder if perhaps the one who is not interested in sex is perhaps asexual, or sex repulsed. Love isn't just about sex, for many sexuals, romantic attraction and sexual attraction are seen as the same, but in reality, they are different. There are four levels of attraction, each present in a person, but each varying in intensity. I for instance have no sexual attraction for anyone, so my level of sexual attraction is at zero. Even if I have a high romantic attraction, this will not effect my sexual attraction as I am asexual. Sensual attraction deals with a want and/or need to be in physical contact not including anything sexual, such as cuddling, or hugging. I often have high levels of sensual attraction toward my good friends. Then last, but not least, there is aesthetic attraction, an attraction to other people that is not connected to a desire to do anything with them either sensually, sexually, or romantically. One simply appreciates the appearance of another person. I have high aesthetic attractions to people, but I form other attractions based on this.

This is exactly how i feel now....

@Purpleflowerchild - In my industry we call people in your position "paper tigers." They've got degrees or certifications, and no actual experience.

First, there is a popular book called the 5 love languages. No matter what I did, repeatedly, I got rejected. I NEVER felt I had conquered my wife, in fact I felt like I wanted to see how good things could get. I wanted to learn what worked for her, and what worked for us. I was shut down, stone walled, COLD!

Now, I'm not yelling at you, I'm just telling you that your books tell you what is popular. They don't tell you about what happens when the book is wrong.

An example: "nonsexual touching in rooms other than the bedroom, loading the dishwasher, surprising her with a picnic at the park" Nope, soundly rejected.

"It takes very little for a man to be ready for sex and it's hard for him to understand why his woman is not the same way."
If I was 13 it would take a breeze to cause an erection. I'm 37 and see "hot young things" all the time. I'm sorry I'm not ready to hop in bed at a moments notice. I actually like having some fun first. Let's play a little.

"A woman can break the cycle by forcing herself to give her man what he needs regardless if she is feeling it or not -- and with a GOOD ATTITUDE! "

This is tolerance. Yes she can have a good attitude, and yes I can still tell she's not into it no matter how much she tries to fake me out. In fact this lie makes it impossible to trust someone you are trying to be intimate with. Honestly, I'd rather she was having sex with someone she was enjoying herself with, and I was too (see open marriage).

Tolerance is NOT a component of an intimate relationship. It breeds contempt (at least it has for me when it's been "wifely duties").

Here's the facts, he's a multiple times a day kind of guy. She's a once a month kind of girl (or reverse it, it doesn't matter). At the end of the day, the more interested party is going to go unfulfilled, go find another partner (secretly), or have to accept tolerance. None of the three answers build intimacy.

I always answer people in these situations with my three choices answer.

1) We get counseling.
2) We have an open marriage, and you are going to discuss every "date" with them.
3) We get divorced and find someone more like what we need.

You always leave the decision to the other partner, and give a reasonable time limit for them to decide (usually a week). If they don't decide, they are telling you choice two is acceptable. First because it's the only one you can do on your own. Second, if they don't act, the choice is made for them (you stated this up front). Third, you aren't cheating, you are up front and honest the whole time.

Oh sweetheart it always break me down to hear stories like your,and I must be honest I dont understand why is so painful to be inlove and to love complete,big hugs and a very juicy kiss for you.

I agree with you after a while they tend to not even be attractive its a shame but their bad not ours in the same boat

I don't know what should I write here but sometimes or majority of time, a woman keeps longing for her love to come home and thinks of sharing passionate moments but relatively finds hard to express. To be honest with you, I find sometimes difficult in expressing myself. There is always a huge space and gap remaining between a husband and wife - a lover and beloved :)

Thanks for the eye opener this is my life

I'm a psych graduate student who will be specializing in marriage and family. These problems are usually caused by each partner making assumptions about the other. Unfortunately, we females seem to think that our men should be able to read our minds and instinctively know our needs. Then, when we don't get what we need from you, we shut down and withdraw sexually -- not intentionally -- it's a natural response. Sex for women is almost entirely in the mind. If our emotional needs are being met, we get turned on and find you incredibly attractive. That's why it's so hard to resist the sexual advances of someone we really like while dating. When dating, the man's focus is on the woman -- wooing and courting her and making her feel special. He is in conquering mode and he has set out to "conquer" this woman.

Unfortunately, once a man has "conquered", he doesn't see the need to continue with the wooing. She's his now. The woman is left wondering what happened to the way he used to make her feel. Without feeling loved and special, her libido turns off.

Now the guy is left wondering where his sexy, flirty, fun woman went. He feels rejected deeply when she doesn't want sex. But she doesn't want sex because what turns her on is love and attention -- nonsexual touching in rooms other than the bedroom, loading the dishwasher, surprising her with a picnic at the park, etc. For most women, the turn on comes BEFORE any sexual touching through little acts of kindness and affection. Unfortunately, men are wired very differently. It takes very little for a man to be ready for sex and it's hard for him to understand why his woman is not the same way.

Now, this whole thing puts the couple on a vicious cycle. He's not giving her the attention she needs to be turned on; he feels rejected when she doesn't want sex so he withdraws EVEN MORE and makes the problem worse.

Once one of the partners understands how the other thinks and what he or she needs, it's not a difficult problem to fix, but it takes work and unselfish actions. A woman can break the cycle by forcing herself to give her man what he needs regardless if she is feeling it or not -- and with a GOOD ATTITUDE! Remember, you love this man and you are doing this for him out of love, not solely to get your needs met! Then, ironically, he will then feel more loving towards you and you will get your needs met -- not perfectly, but it's a start and can get even better with communication. The man can break the cycle by putting into practice the behaviors I outlined above. Don't expect immediate results, especially if the distance has been there for some time.

This is also a simplified version of the differences between men's and women's sexual needs, but it's the basics. Human beings are very complicated, but occassionaly, there are simple solutions that can make things better and bring the spark back into the relationship. It's mostly about just understanding how each other works and dispensing with the assumptions.

By the way, I have been married 25 years and we are still deeply, passionately in love. It wasn't always that way, but fortunately we received some good counsel from other couples and a marriage counselor. The wonderful difference in our marriage is what caused me to become interested in marriage counseling.

I think if you read around here, a bit more, you will find that the gender-specific roles you have assigned here tend to be a disconnected from the lived reality, and that the "scented candles approach" (surprising her with a picnic at the park, etc) usually don't work in the cases seen in ILIASM --but we all do try them. Those aren't bad suggestions within a functional relationship, btw, but they tend to backfire here. If you are planning on making a career out of this, I suggest that you start by reading more stories here. Like 300 of them. And then see what you think.

I agree. I don't buy this at all from Purple Flower. Most of us have read this stuff in a hundred magazine articles and it doesn't work - except in a sexual relationship that is already working well.

Funnily enough I did surprise her with a picnic in the park once, on our wedding anniversary. I could see her visibly tensing up. One of the first things that went through her mind I'm sure was "he's going to want sex after this". Counter-productive.

Now we have recovered our sex life together, this kind of thing is great. It's lovely.

And as for nonsexual touching - to a refusing partner, there is no such thing! Any touch is seen as sexual, regardless.

PurpleFlowerChild has read the books but has no real-life experience. It shows.

I think you have some valid points, @purple, but cookie cutters we are not. Damn shame, huh? And, I'm wondering if the textbooks you are reading were published, oh, in the 50's ot 60's?? Or as someone said, those with more functional relationships are more likely to be able to use your advice.

I'm delighted that you and your SO have found/retained your passion.

I know this is a long-fossilized thread but what the heck. The picture you paint of human sexuality abhors and repulses me. I'd rather go without, thank you very much.

2 More Responses

This is the most amazing story here. This is my story - thank you for setting me free.

ABC6, touching story. I have been married for 30 years. When we are intimate, it is good. But it occurs less and less. Maybe once a month now, if that. At first, I was angry. Now, I am beginning to just not care. We have two great kids, nice home and friends. I have tried everything. She won't really talk about it. I take part of the blame. I just want out, for her to enjoy her life, and for me to go on with mine. I truly believe we would both be happier. TheWindigo, thank you for putting how I feel into words, and helping me understand what is really going on with our relationship. Jmho, but we all should get out of our sad, unhealthy and heartbreaking "relationships".

That is a great point of view and insight

This could be MY story -only thing is we have been married for 23 years and finally my husband gave up and stopped trying.<br />
He has left and I still feel that I love him and miss him but wonder if he came back -which he may. how can I deal with it. I just have no sexual feeling. I feel hollow and dead inside and this is so strange because in the beginning we were like rabbits --had fun and now those times are really hard to remember. What can I do -should I have sex and lie or councelling or just what? This is really important to me......................

Bless you...

I don't mean to be harsh, but if it's so important, couldn't you at least talk to him about it and try to work something out? "Should I have sex and lie" - well, should you? You yourself said you were like rabbits at one stage, so you must have something positive to fall back on. Any outside person person would say yes, you should, and you might well enjoy it.

I would say again that there are some clues to your real state of mind in what yo have said. "Now those times are really hard to remember" Why should they be? My guess is that you have been locked in a circle of negative thoughts about sex for a long time, so much so that you have a fear or dread of sex. You can't even bear to remember the good times. You have repressed every sexual impulse for years.

If you could identify this as the problem, I'm sure a congitive behavioural therapist could help you deal with it. But that only works if you want to deal with it.

Thanks for this post. I've often though about it and seems to have gone through the same conclusion but having someone else say it just makes it hit home.

Thanks Wendigo. Your contribution clarifies some things for me. This is a reality which really hurts. Are you moving on without her?

Hello there. From what you've written here I can identify myself with your wife. <br />
I am a refuser to a husband who behaves rigid to me. He is only alive when working and intimately very awkward and not willing to see that. So my feelings are hurt often. I am not saying that I am perfect, for I stopped feeling warm about him a long ago. This whole time we are feeling bad about the lack of sex: both of us. Have you ever thought of your mistakes and insensitivities? It is easy to blame another but I would say the story has two sides, as we all know. I am glad you seem to have resolved your problem though.

Does this mean that you have somehow read into what TheWendigo wrote that he behaved rigidly to his wife, was only alive when working and was intimately very awkward. If so, it may be that your problems with your husband could have been caused (partly ?) by the same thing that destroys at least 90% of all relations: It may be that you are looking for faults in such a way that you will find them REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT. Think about it, and if that's what you're doing, be glad, because it's something YOU can do something about.

I understood what you meant.....It's always easier to blame someone else for everything that is wrong in a relationship , than to blame yourself......It is not all one persons fault....Some people refuse to believe that they could possibly be doing anything wrong and causing their partner to lose interest in them....and it's usually not something they did in the bedroom ....

This is one of the clearest, most helpful things I've read in this group (and there have been a lot of helpful things).<br />