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All That Glitters...

I have read many of the stories here, and many seem to run along a typical theme. I am going to add my thoughts to those who are living in a sexless marriage, as I am, but who also speak of love and friendship with their partners -- who say they have a wonderful, warm marriage, indeed -- except for that little thing called "no sex."

I have some news for you. I think you should re-examine just how sweet and loving your partners really are...

I don't know too many people who would classify as "caring" or "warm" or "sweet" or "good" those actions that do real harm to another, except those who are desperate to find some "silver lining" to a sad situation.

  • Denying your partner sex is not a sweet and friendly thing to do.
  • Knowing a partner is miserable because of no sexual expression, and not doing anything to alleviate this, is not sweet.
  • Friends don't do malicious secretive passive things to their friends, and then put on an air of innocence about it..."Oh, my total lack of caring for your frustration and misery...my refusal to ever broach the subject or to stir myself to DO ANYTHING about it...oh, that upsets you? I had no idea! And now I will do *nothing* to change this situation except possibly ignore it even more, or for a change of pace, blame you!"

B.S.!!!

I've been where most of you are.

  • I tried to see things differently.
  • I tried to "do without" and do it with grace.
  • I tried to change myself in the hope of enticing my partner.
  • I tried to change my innermost feelings from sad and angry to something "positive."
  • I tried to tell myself that it was my fault.
  • I tried to tell myself it didn't matter, really, when one is with such a warm and loving partner (except for the bit about NO SEX).
  • I tried hobbies. I can weave, knit, crochet, brew beer, frame a house, build a wagon, hand-tame wild birds, grow giant pumpkins, make rope, cast pewter figurines, win at darts, and much much more. Blah.
  • I ran long distances, physically and mentally, to try to run off my desires and energies.
  • I told myself I was bad and evil.
  • I told myself I was pathetic to be 35...40...45...49 and still wanting to have sex.
  • I said so many rosaries that even the Pope asked me to stop.

And then...

  • I begged...
  • I screamed...
  • I broke my hand by slamming it against MY OWN HEAD, duh.
  • I wrote reams of letters about it...
  • I cried...until I was sick...many times...
  • I threw myself on the floor and knocked my head against it and said I would do anything, anything he said if he'd just tell me what the reason was for his lack of interest...
  • I said I was sorry approximately 100,000 times for being "bad" and "being demanding and shallow..."
  • I said I was so sorry even more times for being such a bad person as to put "something as minor as sex" above his lovely warmth and goodness as a partner...

Is anyone getting the picture?

Those who ignore your anguish, who place the blame on you, or who let you place blame on yourself, those who do nothing to stop this misery of your heart, THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND, they are NOT loving people. So, to add to your problems, you're either living with a really passively mean person or a psycho.

Would YOU stay in a marriage where BECAUSE OF YOUR BEHAVIOR your partner was desperate and sad and in anguish?

Would you sit back and let YOUR partner be in such misery about something YOU did or didn't do?

No, you wouldn't.

You know, those who are drug abusers, alcohol abusers -- they don't care about what they are doing to their husbands or wives -- they don't see it, they don't accept it -- if you tell them they are hurting you, they don't buy it -- their abuse is "not the cause" of any terrible consequences -- there is NO getting through to them -- but no one, not one therapist in the world, no matter HOW lousy (and most are REALLY f-ing lousy), would tell the drug abuser that the abuse is "okay" or that the harm done is negligible --

but--

You will find PLENTY of sexless partners and "therapists" who will indeed tell their desperate partners that -- that the sex doesn't matter and that the refusal to be a true husband or wife does no harm. They will place the blame SQUARELY on your already aching shoulders, my friends --right where you've most probably placed it at times yourself, you poor things -- me too -- BUT DON'T LET THEM.

I have no grand final remarks, other than to say:

  • It truly sucketh...
  • Your partner is not acting right...
  • It is not your fault. It isn't because you DID or DIDN'T do something that he/she is withholding sex from you...
  • It won't get better...
  • Get out now, or you'll be like me, endlessly hunting on the internet and in magazines for someone who found a way out without really getting out...
  • It will fester in your soul, no matter how long it goes on, as long as you are with the person who has hurt you this way...
  • There are those out there who DO have natural views about sex and who DO like it for what it is, not as some weird control thing or "dirty" thing, and maybe a miracle will happen and you'll meet them somehow, someday...in the meantime, comfort yourself with at least THEY would like to have sex with you...!!!!
  • You are not along...as if that is any help...

And now I'm off to run my 3 miles!!! And then I have a great new hobby to start!

 

deleted deleted 26-30 553 Responses Apr 18, 2008

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When it does fester in your soul the new monster takes hold, I got to liking my rebellion, and when I was interfered with my wife and life I started taking perverse pleasure in hurting those that interfered, I started to like the feel as bone crunched under my refusal retaliations. My wife says now I have become feared what do I want t settle accounts with her and everyone else or is my feeling of needing repaid for 32 years of life. She says what happened was not meant to happen it just did because I refused to allow anyone else feelings and needs over my own. She said the more you wanted your life the more everyone else wanted to deny your life then you started hurting them for your life, she says if you had just done as you were told things would have been much different because the more someone want change the more others want to deny change. That's human nature and you wanted your life to change and we denied it, then you chose to force change and now many are being hurt because of it, just because you had wants I your life that did not synch with everyone elses wants.
She said you should have listened to your father, Now he does not have friends himself. Your mother is leaving him because of this and I am living away from society, what more do I want. All because you will not be told what your rights are. You decide now and everyone suffers, I can't imagine the problems you would have caused if you took your rights for 32 YEARS BECAUSE YOU ARE TAKING THEM NOW AND IN A YEAR HAVE CAUSED HAVOC in every ones life. She was a little angry about seeing a buffalo standing outside the door this morning, She is trying to make a case for moving back east. I find peace her without my father around, her mother and sister and her husband like it here, but my wife thinks that society is the peace she needs, and because of me she is now deprived of society. Is this a mean thing to do to her or did I have a right to declare no more interference in my life after 32 years?

Love your style!

I'm just so scared. Its safe here. He will never hit me. He will never abuse me.

I also know that he cannot bring himself to be the lover I need.

I'm in a sexless marriage also. My choice. My husband has hurt me so much both physically and mentally over our 35 yr. union. We have too much invested to ever split. We don't even sleep together. He can take it or leave it. If he left me tomorrow, I would jump hoops over the moon. We have grown children to think of also. When he tries to touch me I want to vomit. Mental and physical abuse can do that to you. I hate him.

FROM THE HEART.....

I think you are dead on here. I too am experiencing the same pain and feelings you describe above.

Spot on sister! My story :)

I live in an almost sexless marriage.. A lot of things have happened between and to each of us and the reasoning behind the way we are living now is because I now have a medical issue that makes having intercourse extremely painful. When we do try, a lot of times I suffer through the pain to give my husband what he needs and desires. I am trying to be a good wife but it is hard sometimes when the pain feels like my private parts are being ripped wide open. Takes the pleasure away for me and I am sure it does for him too being that he doesn't like me to hurt. It is my decision still tho. He will stop if I say so. All this is awful for me, I hate that something I once loved is now pretty much something I don't want to do because it hurts so bad. I miss the connection we get from being intimate. It doesn't help that he thinks we can just do it minus the foreplay and the lack of normal romantic gestures at any other time... He is leaving all the playing around to me. I don't think it is fair, we are in this together or so I thought. I don't think he understands a lot of things most times and I don't feel like I need to ask for certain things. That takes the specialness out of it. I have been with him for 27 years and have told him and explained my view but how soon he forgets. Neither of us are withholding sex from the other. Never have and never will. It boils down to my medical issue that started about 5 years ago. I would love for it to just go away and have things like they once were (enjoyable) but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I am getting no help from doctors either. All they tell me is I have to work at stretching my stuff out so it wont hurt so bad. I have read up on this and I don't have the time or inclination to lay around playing with myself all the time just so intercourse hurts less. There has to be a better way!!!!!

I have the same physical problem as you. Even if I found my husband attractive again, I still would be in a lot of pain trying to have sex. God bless.Please reply with authenticity, support, and respect

This was particularly well said. I relate on so many levels.

I came here and read this article years ago, probably 6 or 7 years. Everything she said could have ben read out of my diary (if I had one). Here I am, 6 or 7 years later, still "googling" "sexless marriage". Been with him for 14 years and he hasn't touched me now in years. He began not initiating about 9 months into our marriage. Nope - I had not gained any weight and had not turned ugly overnight. It just stopped. After a few years of my initiating; and getting turned down 90% of the time, which eventually turned into begging, it all just went away.

I used to argue with him after talking did nothing. I dragged him to counseling to three different counselors including our pastor. Now is it just this huge elephant in my room - not his room because he is perfectly happy you see.

I wish I knew something to tell all of you. I stayed in the marriage mainly because neither of us could afford to live alone. It was also my second marriage and I didn't want to go through another divorce. I believe if I had it to do over again, after the first "threat" or ultimatum, I'd leave.

When I met him I was happy and confident. Now...I'm just here and at 52 I feel old and done with and ready to leave this world.

Sorry. The bad news? It will happen again. You will never feel comfortable with the idea that you are sexually desirable again. Never. Even if the next man is all over you, every morning and most evenings, you will be waiting for the end...and it will happen because you know it is coming.

hope u can live maybeu need a man that can't perform becauseof medical reasons like me.l would do anything to please a lady cudeling ,poems just to have a closeness with someone as i am very lonely an long for a love of the heart even turn into littel oral andy just care about me an you will be loved an wanted matbe this will help u to no u are not alone in feeling so allll alonnne

"Get out now, or you'll be like me, endlessly hunting on the internet and in magazines for someone who found a way out without really getting out..." Excellent post. Does anyone know how the original poster eventually dealt with her sexless marriage?

I have developed the mindset and belief that denying your partner sexually is just another form of sexual sin.... since it is specifically commanded to never deprive your partner, and to enjoy giving each other sexual gratification. As such, I believe it is a Biblical grounds for divorce just as much as if the woman committed unrepentant adultery.
So, Lord willing I should ever marry at all, the marriage will be over literally the first time she refused to enjoy the profound connection, passion, and intimacy of sharing sex together. Those are terms I lay out right from the start with any woman I connect with. I have no interest in being trapped in marriage to a person who does not want such a wonderful thing and is totally out of touch with their sexuality. There are people like that, and they belong in marriages with each other. Not with someone like me.,

The good news? You try that in a court and she will clean you out.
ONCE is not "a pattern of misconduct".

As long as you don't mind being broke.
Women can deny once and still love you. Sometimes they just aren't in the mood, or they're angry.
Twice is more suspect and if it becomes usual....

I agree, good point. Once, it would be discussed and if there is a good reason for it, OK. And always like that.

On the other hand, if it is a selfish or mindless habit, that marriage would be over for me.

I have been broke for 40 years. I could do another 30 no problem. That would not deter me from standing from love.

Well, that attitude should succeed if nothing else

Unfortunately for you women have hormones that fluctuate, which dictate just how “in the mood” she is. No one should have to endure a sexless marriage but if you plan to end the marriage the first time they’re not in the mood - don’t EVER get married.

My hormones and a variety if serious struggles that most people could not imagine, have never had any affect whatsoever on my desire or willingness to please and gratify my partner in whatever way possible. That's the entire point of relationship and intimacy. People who do not understand that shod never get married.
It's also commanded point blank in the Word "do not deprive one another", if that means anything to you.
No one will convince me I should be rejected by my wife or that there is no hope.
Move in and spread the despair elsewhere.
I'm here to encourage and be encourage.

Good luck with that - finding a modern-day woman that will cater to your sexual needs whenever you're in the mood (even if she is not).

Thank you for your well wishes. I am sorry you are the type of woman who does not care to please her husband.

Actually he is pleased quiet often and very happy, as am I. Will there be a few days here and there where one of us is not in the mood when the other one is - SURE. Do we accept it? yes. You seem to have a very black and white view about marriage and the truth is that very little in life is black and white. I think people that deny their spouse sex are wrong but you are saying that the women must perform on demand (an extreme sunmissive) and you will need plenty of luck finding someone that feels that way. They are definitely out there, but they are rare.

*submissive

Yeah, those "Commands" in the Book (bible is from Biblos = book, NOT word) go so very far.
Like "Feed the poor" "Comfort the afflicted" and "Heal the sick", yeah, that gets LOTS of time among the Christians while they spit on black Congressmen

You are filled with hate at the moment. I hope that resolves soon.

I am filled with facts. I hate ignorance, and it is highly unlikely that ignorance will disappear anytime soon...well, you're still alive, right?

You hate ignorance? Lol. You are the definition of Ignorant.

Says the self-satisfied blowhard who claims to have plenty of sex yet LIVES on ILIASM.
BWHAHHAHHAAAHA!

I don’t live on this forum silly man. Life is about balance. Ajushi saying he’d leave his wife the 1ST TIME she refused is as extreme as a woman saying she would leave a man the first time he didn’t bring home flowers. It’s just ridiculous. You obvioulsy are extremely bitter because of what you’ve been through in your past but you find the need to argue with anyone and everyone that doesn’t 100% agree with you. I’ve been married for 14 years and we’ve never gone more than a month without sex, that includes when I was pregnant. Does that mean there are not days that he may be in the mood, and I am not? Of course not. Do I think that people that are continually denied should have to right to go out and get their satisfaction elsewhere? yes, I do. will I ever think that leaving someone because they denied you once is ok? NO. you can throw a million statistics around and call me all the names you desire - it still won’t change how I feel.

No, nothing will change how you feel, since you do not bother to THINK!

I think plenty - thanks.

Certainly show a lack of that function HERE, posting every 10 minutes!!

You seem to think that only your opinion matters and if someone doesn't agree with you they are beneath you. You will die a lonely man if you chose to never grow up.

Anyone who claims that she is not LIVING here and then makes two posts 1 minute apart really proves my statement, YOU DON'T THINK!

No. I'm simply responding to the notices I receive on my phone.

As I pointed out, you LIVE here. You have nothing else to do than respond every 3 minutes?

Oh LAWWWD. You again? You're like a pimple that keeps coming back. Go harass someone that gives a **** what you think.

And here you are, responding every 3 minutes. What is it with you? Hmm? Unable to just admit you screwed up?

sometimes a relationship doesnt start out that way....after 5 years mine morphed into a sexless relationship and now marriage. sex happens but way way less than I would like and then I feel it's just because in the past I have let it be known how much I am upset about the lack of it. Now it is a topic that is off the board for discussing, along with many others. I suffer every day and wish I hadnt been tricked into this. I do wish things were different and I love him and long for him all the time. He just has no interest.....

Move on then.

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The suffocating horrors of being an unmarried Christian are exactly the same as this nightmare.

What? Seriously. An unmarried Christian has CHOSEN a sexless existence, no one conned him into one.

If the choice is between eternal torment in hell and salvation, that is no choice at all. Use your head.

You are always free to reject ignorant bronze age superstition and live your one and only life with PLEASURE instead of senseless denial.
You are not free to do this to anyone else though.

You are correct - I did have the option to refuse to obey God and stay in the last relationship I had and go burn for eternal torment. But that is ultimately not much of an option.

So...begin your assertion by claiming that you will go to hell for enjoying the sex you were 'designed' to need, then pull a false dichotomy out of your *** to 'back up' your assertion.
STUPID!

You are correct - I did have the option to refuse to obey God and stay in the last relationship I had and go burn for eternal torment. But that is ultimately not much of an option.

So...begin your assertion by claiming that you will go to hell for enjoying the sex you were 'designed' to need, then pull a false dichotomy out of your *** to 'back up' your assertion.
STUPID!

To use your head is to realise that "eternal torment in hell" is just in your head!

No, for those who perish, it is not in the head. It is in the soul.

Let's dissect that, shall we?
The 'soul' is an idea in your head, with no backing in fact or observation whatever.
THEREFORE...do I need to draw out the conclusion for you?

If you do not know, that is your affair. Why do you seek to argue about what you do not know?

Would you care to prove there is a soul? Or do you prefer to continue to wallow in ignorance?

Ignorance means not knowing. That is the definition of the word ignorance. You know in your heart that the soul exists, as does God. But in your mind you are ignorant of the fact. This is the case for all those who are in unbelief,

And you do NOT know, you 'believe in things unseen', also called "Self-delusion" or "hallucination"

To you the fantasy of "salvation" is worth more than reality, therefore you made a _choice_!

Yeah, imagine the banquet had armed guards to keep you away from even a morsel of nourishment.
That is a sexless marriage. You get to see, hear and smell but NO TOUCHING! EVER!
Well, except when SHE wants to be eaten

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You have a right to sexual fulfillment. If your partner doesn't provide it, you are morally and ethically free to find it elsewhere.

Just one mistake. No, there are NOT women out there who "DO have natural views about sex and who DO like it for what it is, not as some weird control thing or "dirty" thing,"
It is not in their nature. Sex is a chore with occassional *******. That's it. A chore they refuse to do.

Wow, and the vast number of women here are lying. Conspiring against all of us men to lull us into thinking they do enjoy sex, and are not here because of their anguish and despair that they go unfulfilled in there desire for release and intimacy.

No bitlord, that's just what their telling you.
Hint. Read a little bit around here. It's amazing what women really want. Shhhh, don't tell them I told you.....

Read a little bit here and there. 33% of women start denying within 1 year, and 75% by the Golden Anniversary.
They don't care. Sex is, at best, an intermittent entertainment they do not care to put WORK into.

not me!!!

_StarKat_ What is "not you"? No, you don't want more excitement? No you do not want no more boredom (double negative)? No you do not want more money? No you do not want no more struggling (another double negation) ? No you do not want more admiration, no you do not want no more admiration?
or no you do not want NO MORE icky, sticky, wet, ugly sex?

We know what they want. More excitement, no more boredom. More money, no more struggling. More admiration, no more admiring. More service, no more giving service.
And above all, no more icky, sticky, wet, ugly sex.

I think like draws like. There's a reason why people draw partners who withdraw. Sometimes a person needs to stop the blame game and look at him or herself. Getting a healthier outlook and acting on it will either push the refuser away or will get a response out of them.

Nicely said purplepiano25, much better said than my sarcastic reply. Lol! But between us, I think we said it all.
Team work!!
Lol
Nicely done.
IJU

"Laws of attraction" also known as Bullshit.
See on Youtube "skeptic" "laws of attraction" for mathematical proof of bullshit.

Bullshit. since 75% are deniers before the end of the 50th Anniversary, it is correct that women WISH to inflict sexual harm on men.

Good thing I'm with one who doesn't deny me. You have a very negative view on women, no wonder women treat you like **** cause you are.

Been what, a year? Give it 15. See how often the sheets get wet after she gets bored....or whatever her excuse THIS time

Doesn't matter bitlord. She knows that if she denies me longer than 2 months, I'll either find a mistress or a prostitute to help me out.

And yet...the woman you provide for, comfort when she is afflicted, hold when she cries....tells you to stick it in a light socket?
This is LOVE? Says who?

EXACTLY!

I am a woman in a sexless marriage. I love sex. I would have sex daily if I could. I give oral sex to my vibrator, because my husband refuses. Sex is not a chore. I have begged my husband for 5 years to have sex with me. And now at 26, I have accepted that I will never have a fulfilling sex life. It isn't in the cards for me this lifetime. It is NOT always the woman.

Like I said a female DOMINATED sport, not exclusive. Meanwhile, you're 26 and not willing to move on to anther partner.
Call us when you are 40, we'll see how interested in sex you are by then. Sheesh

My mother is turning 54 this year. She's been with my stepfather (he'll be 60 this year) for over 20 years. They are still enjoying a healthy sex life.
I will add my voice to those women who have already said they love sex. Just like I've always known my sexual orientation, I've always known I love sex.
Take your antiquated views out back and beat them with a stick until dead. Then repeat.

What part of DOMINATED did you miss? I certainly never said NO women like sex, I did point out that MOST women have stopped before the age of 50 and let's not forget that women LIE about it all the time.

Are you calling me a liar or implying that men don't lie? How old is the research you're basing your claims upon? And where is it from? What you are saying does not compute.

2010.
Kinsey institute of sexuality is among the sources for the book in question.
I'm pointing out that the research says you are wrong. MOST women are deniers before they end sexual expression entirely.

I would like to read this book. I think it's full of ****. Do you know the title or author? Sorry if you posted it already, I didn't notice it if you did.

See below. "Why Women Have Sex" (Times Books), by sex researchers David M. Buss, PhD, and Cindy M. Meston, PhD

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Wow, thank you so much, you have no idea what you have done for me, like i posted on Monday, I confronted my husband and he is not talking to me, I tried to talk to him and he told me that I never do what he wants, he said that I'm not respecting his space and that I should use this time to see what I have done wrong and see why our relationship is like this, I always end up listening to him and blaming myself, and really, I'm no angel but I do everything for him, he says that there's no communication beteween us, but everytime I try to talk to him he is tired or it is not the right moment. About two years ago, he had his ***** tested and it came back 80% below average, and told him that he needed surgery, so he did, but now he told me that he is angry because I made him have the surgery, he never got tested to see if the surgery had worked, and when I tell him that I want children, he freaks out and tells me that we don't have a good relationship, and that I probably can't have children because I smoke, I had stopped smoking but the lack of sex really makes me crave a cigarette. So today, before I opened this page I was trying to figure out what I did wrong because the way he says it, is so convincing, that it makes me think I did.

Welcome to the world of the "refused" ... it wasn't a term I had heard of before I found EP, and this treasure of a story. I have, for months, wanted to thank the person who wrote it, but alas, they are no longer here on EP.

Being refused IS soul destroying, and for some reason we always blame ourselves ... for all the reasons above and probably for a thousand or so other reasons that are individual to each of us.

It is not a nice way to live, but the answer to this problem can only lie inside you. I am struggling to find the answer to being refused myself, but I feel like I am a long way from finding it, and working out what I want and need to do.

Good luck with your journey and your decision making process

Girl, you hit it right on the head. I could not have put it any better. Sex is a part of an intimate relationship and unless there is something physically wrong with your partner that cannot be corrected it should not be withheld. I f your partner loves you they should want to share this beautiful intimate time with you. I f not, they don't really love you or they have some serious issues that need to be addressed. If this continues it can wreck havoc on your marriage and your self esteem.

Tell that to the 33% of women who start refusing within one year.

do you have an article to back that 33%, preferably with an explanation of why they refuse?

See "Why Women Have Sex" (Times Books), by sex researchers David M. Buss, PhD, and Cindy M. Meston, PhD
32 percent of women aged 18 to 24 (single and married) reported having little interest in sex in the past year.

That's the 18 - 24. Get it? They ALL do it.
As for 'why', there is no single why.
When all excuses are tabulated together, the refusers are just not concerned with their alleged lover's sexual frustration.

There's a huge difference between 32% and "all women". My wife is definitively from the other 68%. I don't care about those 32%, I'd never marry a woman like that. Be a bit more selective and tell her what's going to happen when she tries that trick BEFORE you marry. Saves a lot of trouble. And while that 32% is probably correct, it still means a constitutional majority is up for sèx on a regular basis, even after marriage.

All women. The 33% is the 20-30 year age group. By age 50 the number WHO ADMIT sexual denial is 52%. The actual number is ALL.
Eventually, you either leave, submit or cheat, if you want sex in your life.
Of course, if you don't happen to have a pile of money, you won't get that either.

Three things: 1) 52% is a long way to go until 100%. It's simply not true. I have been with sexually very active women in their fifties. Most of them devoured me. 2) I didn't promise monogamy, my wife knows exactly what happens when she denies. 3) I don't need money, she denied once and she gave me money to see a pro instead.

You missed the "admit it" part. Women, by and large, will not admit to denial. To do so is to open themselves to a 'constructive desertion' case in the divorce settlement, which can, not will but can, ***** her of all gains from the marriage.
So, not surprisingly, women lie. That's what you do when you are a passive-aggressive manipulator with the desire to control, limit and yes, torture, a man into his early grave.
Ever wonder why there are so many widows, and so few widowers?

Still doesn't make 48% of women into liars. Make that a generous 25% liars. That's still nearly 1 in 4 women who don't deny. At 50 years, there's a reduced libido for most women but not all go to zero. Many even experience a sexual peak at that age. Divorce and widows are not relevant for the topic at hand so I'll happily ignore that.

Of course widows / widower ratio means something. Men, on average, stay in better shape than women, on average, yet die earlier.
You think the constant frustration and overwork, anger and self-loathing women cause has nothing to do with that?

Men on average are older than their wives. That's all.

One more time. Average age at death for men is 7 years younger than women (again, average).
Think that through. The men marry later, and die younger. WHy is tha?

Average more risky life because they have to earn the bread, testosterone is responsible for a lot and is a primary factor. There's several reasons. Maybe horrible wives are a tiny factor but not for all. It's not related to the topic. Not all wives deny permanently.

But I understand why you're miserable because such a mindset sure won't get you a worthy woman. Like finds like.

If you are an example of 'worthy', there are none.

I get bitlord's frustration .... refusal eats away at you and no matter how hard you try to stay positive.....it's impossible. it's torture to have the person you love and wanna be with to constantly refuse you.

"Ate" would be correct tense. She is dead, and I am medically neutered. Got the itch, just cannot scratch.
A High price for love, don't you think?

Wrong again. Average LESS risky life since men don't do as much unnecessary driving (#3 killer).
Higher stress death rates (high blood pressure, vascular disease) caused entirely by FRUSTRATION. This is what women are TRAINED to do!!

lol....I stress my spouse out cuz I WANT sex.....he doesnt wanna hear me asking for it or intitating it, cuz he isnt interested......

hmmm, a stress death, maybe that is what I should go for..... I should be good at it, since Im a woman....

Depends on why he doesn't want you.
Maybe you've already stressed him out.
Maybe he has a mistress.
Maybe he thinks he can have more fun torturing you.

No. By age 60, testosterone levels in the average man and woman are identical.
Try again but next time, read some medical literature before commenting on mortality.

No one said permanently.
But 6-10 per year is sexless no matter what you call it.
And that is what 100% of women do at least one year of each marriage without physical impediment.

36 times a year is sexless...... to me.....

Really? MOST of us would trade places with you and throw in a new car!

not all wives deny. period. I cant only think of one time I ever denied.... and that was to my abusive ex the day I walked out the door. He let me know he wanted sex one more time....and I said "no".

Now Im married again, but to a man who has turned out to be not much interested in sex. it's torture and I do everything I can to adapt. We didnt start out that way and i cant talk to him anymore about it. it makes him mad and he calls me a nympho cuz I want it more than 3 times a month. If/when I initiate, he turns me down. when it happens, it must be on his terms. I expect to to eventually dwindle down to nothing and it deeply depresses me.

According to their own words, MOST wives deny by age 50 and those are just the ones who admit it.

My spouse has denied me many times, usually when I initiate....I have been so angry inside over it, that I have been determined that the next time he initiates....I will refuse him. (he doesnt initiate much). I have not had any success in actually refusing yet. it's like offering a starving person food. Your mad at the person who is starving you, but gotta eat that food.... It just never occured to me that there were men out there who had such a non chalant attitude about sex. blows my mind. I look for things to get worse and eventually there will be no sex at all. Maybe as time goes on, my drive wil go away. close to 50 now and it hasnt happened yet. dont know how many more years I can take the torture...

Either you will find out, or you will leave.
There is no "Getting better" because refusers do not WANT to be better.

So the women like me who were upset at being married to refusers are..... ?????

And now that I'm in my 60s, have sex several times a week with my wonderful post divorce boyfriend whose libido is LESS than mine means I'm.... ?????

Of course, KimSanten, you believe that all women don't like sex and will eventually be refusers. That's because the women whom you selected probably all were like that because those are the type of women whom you'e attracted to. You sought evidence to find proof that all women are like the ones you've been with.

I could distort the following research and decide that all men who are old don't like sex or are incapable of having it. After all, this info is based on research....

"As men get older, impotence becomes more common. Impotence is the loss of ability to have and keep an erection hard enough for sexual intercourse. By age 65, about 15 to 25% of men have this problem at least one out of every four times they are having sex. This may happen in men with heart disease, high blood pressure, or diabetes-either because of the disease or the medicines used to treat it."http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/sex-aging

Did you miss the 32% of 18-32 year olds part? WAY before the hormones wear off, a significant minority of women want NO SEX AT ALL? Hmm?
Sure, damaged bodies in the older crowd makes for less sex, but what does that have to do with vicious women who make marriage into a gulag with torture chambers KNOWING it will hasten the deaths of their men?

What does this have to do with the vicious men who make marriage into a gulag with torture chambers knowing it will hasten the deaths of their women?

Do you think the women here are lying when they complain about their husbands who are refusers?

No. I merely point out that the phenomenon of sexual refusal is a female dominated sport.

yeah, that is what I used to think too....until my now husband started doing it to me. Ive never been a refuser and probably never will be, but wish I could be....when Im being thrown the little bit of pity sex I get.

I gave you source and numbers. MOST deniers are women.

Did you miss the significant minority of women who really like sèx? Did you miss the constutional majority at 18 which love it more than anything? I don't care about gulag torture marriages because I didn't marry such a woman, any man who did deserves what he got. Stupid people die younger. Marrying a horrible woman is the most stupid thing a man can do. Yes, I just blamed the man for what he inflicted onto himself.

with 52% ADMITTING they drop out, it is the minority who even claim they like it.
oops. Seems you missed it.
Ah, so, your solution is 'blame the victim'. Well, that's fine then. Next time your boyfriend kicks your *** around the house, do remember "it's your own fault".
(sarcasm. I don't think it is the victim's fault, just pointing out that your defense mechanism is in overdrive and making stupid claims)

I'm a man. I'm married to a woman. Why do you hate women so much? Yes a stupid man is to blame to marry a woman who doesn't enjoy sex. Don't marry a woman unless you know she enjoys sharing her body with you.

wait, let me get it. A man who is victimized by sex hating women who keeps it secret until she has the ring is AT FAULT?
You are one sick bas-ard.

it usually starts out that the significant other portrays that they like sex.

and later, the truth comes out. and that's where they get us. we get tricked.

Sort of gives you an idea why Ho's call the men who hire them "tricks"

Of course, KimSanten, you believe that all women don't like sex and will eventually be refusers. >> I don't believe that at all. In fact, I believe the exact opposite. All women enjoy sex with the right guy.

Actually, MOST women don't like it say the women, ALL women practice refusing to get something.
It is the committed man who loses out. The multimillionaire who can replace them at will is doing fine.

I'm sorry for you, you really got burned by bad women. But I've got a good one and she knows she can't refuse me. I told her before we married. Marriage is about promises. I promised her I'd cheat if she broke her promise to keep me satisfied. Again, if you commit without making hard promises about sèx and refusing, you're the one who's to blame because the woman is merely upholding her part of the bargain which apparently did not involve sex in your case.

SUUUURRRRE you did. Let me know how that 'free sex' thing is going when you're 55 and she's 52 or older.

If you're still alive by that time, I'll contact you.

So, you're a baby with no experience or time in the saddle.
Explains your ignorance of how women actually work over the long road

I wish I had thought of that. but it just never crossed my mind a man wouldnt want it anymore.....

Why not? If he thinks YOU are a 'dead lay' why would he be interested?
Then again, maybe he just enjoys making you suffer.
You're a woman. Go craigslist and get laid anytime you want.

the only reason I'd like to refuse (and cant) is because I am getting refused.

You said you want to do it for revenge. That is most women's excuse.

I think both of you are wrong. some women will want sex til the day they day. want it and not get enough from refuser men. I also do not believe that all women enjoy sex (the right guy not being a factor). some people (male and female) will always be refusers and just flat out not interested. and some will always have interest. the tradgedy is when one gets tricked into being with the opposite of what you happen to be.

I said ALL WOMEN DENY at some point. That isn't the same as perpetual torment.

I would have to say then that ALL men DENY at least once too.

No one said ONCE, for once is not denial. There is an ALWAYS pattern of using sex to punish, to manipulate or to reward that every woman does.
In the end, it is because they do not require sex as often as men, and this is a tactical advantage too tempting for most women to avoid.

your post gives me hope.....
Im having a hard time dealing with my refuser. and Im only 46. I was hoping that menopause would destroy my sex drive ending my torture.....but Im afraid Im one of the ones that that doesnt happen to. some times I do better than others.....

Don't worry. Hormones and hate should do the trick well enough

there are many woman 40+ who are the ones with a "high drive" and get consistantly refused often by their spouses. After surfing the web some, I have found I am not alone in this. It's not just women....It's men too. I do not have any good opinion of a man or a woman who causes so much suffering in another individual. I get called a nympho cause I would like it twice a week. Im lucky to get a little on the weekend.....3 times a month at best... People should be upfront and honest about their libido before deciding to be in a relationship together....just didnt know it could be like this....because been married twice before, even to abusive ppl, but sex was never a problem.....never got refused before until now. and it blew my mind when it first started happening, I just didnt think than men ever refused sex.....

Actually, it is very few women say the researchers.
Mostly women get what they want elsewhere when they cannot dangle the bait well enough any longer.

"When all excuses are tabulated together, the refusers are just not concerned with their alleged lover's sexual frustration."...this goes for men too. My man is happy with very little....so why he should he be concerned that I would like it twice a week. He could go 3 months or longer with no urges, desire or anything. When I approach him, it cause problems. Im not in bad shape and I get looked at and hit on all the time. it's not somthing I can talk about with him anymore and he does not seem to be concerned in the least that I am hurting. I am doing everything I can think of to make my sex drive go away, including drinking spearmint tea like crazy....which has helped a little. but it tears me up mentally and emotionally that he just doesnt want it much.

Don't keep that up. It will work eventually and then the silly ****** will die and YOU will be a sexless drone.
Trust me, I KNOW about that one.

I totally agree. How about he will XXXX you but not make love. Also, I've changed and I don't know why, sorry. That's all I hear. I am a women that complains about no intimacy. I have always enjoyed sex. I don't believe you should use it as a weapon or withheld. It is truly a way of connecting with your mate and plus it feels great and its FREE.

Is it free?
Not to men.
Indeed, the costs of sex are so high that half of men drop out of the competition before they hit 60, staying with sexless wives while giving them all the goodies.

Ive told I complain too much too....so much so that I have quit talking about it, it caused so much tension in the relationship. he assumes Im gonna cheat since I want more sex than 3 times a month. I talked about it to him cause I wanted more from him....If I was gonna go cheat, why would I say anything at all????

Cheat

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This is so beautifully written and put together that brings the whole issue to a more clever and elegant level. It's a weird thing to say, but I find it refreshing to point that out to someone who (like me) face the awkwardness of the many unbelievable circumstances we experience in a sexless marriage.
I love how this testimony sounds wise. I love how it flashes so many familiar scenes and emotions without losing its dignity - being "dignity" another key word for how we stop perceiving ourselves when we are in the middle of the perplexity.
Coherence restores dignity.
Coherence is compassionate without missing the core issues.
Coherence will not hurt yourself or any other person.
Coherence is fair.
I do hope I bring it all to blend with my own perceptions of the struggle and act upon my marriage as a wise woman as well.
Many thanks.

There is only one "but" to add to this. Not as a solution, but as a possible cause.
We are not necessarily talking about partners that have a physical impeachment to sex. That, in many cases, can be solved with hormones or viagra. We are talking about people who have this unbelievable blind spot about relating physical intimacy and emotions.
I DISAGREE that all SM are built equally - what makes them equal is the final symptom they display - mostly, the symptom found on the refused part.
Look: we human beings are way more f-ed up than even we can even imagine. So, although I share the despair and perplexity I see in the story above, I disagree that is merely some "refuser's BS" that ruins the recipe. I think non-physically impaired refusers have something deeply wrong in their emotional constitution*.

Having that in mind, I also think that it's pointless to FEED our resentment against them and their behavior.
We have to acknowledge that - of course. But we cannot let ourselves get caught there because it's just like locking ourselves down in hell. No good comes form that.
Feeding our resentment is just like feeding a monster that becomes bigger and stronger than us. We end-up feeling hopeless and defeated, with the impression that we have doomed our lives.
I've been there, it's not worthy.

The only way to work through it is by reuniting all our strength. Whatever we get to decide to do - stay longer (for whatever reasons), leave (forever or remaining friends), outsource - we are going to need a lot of energy to promote that in a successful way.

Personally, although I'd love to rejoice in the easy and logical outsourcing, and although I do believe it's a good option in many cases, when it comes to my particular situation, I think it's just a pragmatic answer to the problem.

But the thing is: rebuilding myself does not require a pragmatic solution, it requires transformation.

*(Maybe there is something wrong with our constitution, too, so that we have picked these partners, considering there were so many other possibilities.Are we fully aware of what made us fight for our crazy SM happen and last? Maybe we were trying to break a pattern of bad-yet-sexully-active relationships, maybe we have been dragging a pattern of affectively-poor relationships, …)

This is one of the best and truest things Ive ever read. Nothing is more horrifying to me than the thought of being trapped in a marriage like what you describe. The mainstream Christian teachings and sentiments on this are all total bullsh**

If a woman does not find a sense of enjoyment, acceptance, and obligation in gratifying her man at every opportunity, or the man has no interest in satisfying her longing to do so and pleasuring her in any way he can, then there is no love or friendship in that marriage at all. They are already divorced. The Word says "Do not deprive one another." To deprive your spouse is just another form of infidelity, and is a Biblical grounds for divorce. Such a couple is already actually divorced anyway.

The word also says "If she divorces him and marries another, she commits adultery" (stoned to death, since the old law remains in force said Jesus)
I suggest you find a better book.

That's nothing at all compared to the confusions and horrors in it. Somehow finding a way to overlook half of it, and suffer with rest, is Germaine to Christian life for all convicted believers. I'm past that.

define "deprive"....

is it deprival if one gets sex 2 - 3 times a month at most, but wants it twice a week? is the one not getting it twice a week as desired deprived?

2 - 3 times a month is not sexless.

Try 2 - 3 times a year... maybe. I am a devout Christian... but what my wife did to me destroyed marriage. I hate divorce, but the relief I have now is indescribable. Refusing IS a sin.

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wow I had to read your post again wow it still makes me cry its the truth . I live in just that marrage one sided me always the nurse maid if hes sick .its such a burden. I just cant see him helping me if i need it or taking care of me . I belive this kind of marrage treatment is just so cruel .

I'm not sure of your age but that could be a factor..In my case I call it gone with the wind..We have 4 kids all grown up and the wife needs surgery to pull everything back together..She's also not interested because her religion is much stronger..It sounds like an excuse but you can't fight city hall..I've been there and done that too so for any of you young timers...your future is up to you and yes there are other amenities a long time partner has...Sex isn't everything..but does help..!

Erin, I'm your age, and I divorced earlier this year from a 34-year marriage that was sexless the last 8 years, and mainly sexless many of the other years.

I now have a boyfriend my age, and sex definitely is not gone with the wind. Typical weekend we have sex at least 5 times. And that's what we do on the weekend.

During the last years of being with my refuser, I seldom thought about sex. I didn't even think I remembered how to do it. After I filed for divorce, my libido came roaring back, and when almost a year later, I became involved in a romance, I started having the best sex ever in my life.

I have women friends up to age 82 who are having fulfilling sex with their husbands and partners, so I believe one can have a delightful sex life for virtually all of one's life. I will never ever settle for a partner who thinks that celibacy is the way to lead one's life.

Fifteen points to you mettamomma! NEVER let them take your lust away

Liked what you said, but i'm trapped. Meaning I have a 6 year old son who I don't want to hurt, and the thought of not seeing him everyday would kill me. Plus the financial part of it, I'd lose the house,truck etc... She doesn't care about sex, its been a problem for 6-8 years now.. I beg for it, and it happens once every 3-4 months.. She's a excellent mother, and very responsible person, I'm slowly dying inside, and feel trapped.. Don't have the heart to cheat.

At least get counseling so you can get support and figure out some options that might make your life more fulfilling.

Have you talked to a good divorce lawyer to find out what your rights would be if you divorce? There are people who amicably divorce and then continue to live together or down the street from each other so both can have daily involvement in their children's lives.

Get online and find a lawyer specializing in marital fraud lawsuits. It won't help in the divorce per-se, but it can help you get back your possessions once you demonstrate to the court that the marriage is a fraud, by her choice, and therefore she is not entitled to profit by tort (or even crime).

NO she is NOT an excellent mother or responsible person. She is depriving the father of her child of love. That's as loveless and irresponsible as a human being can possibly be. It terrifies me to think there are people who are that out of touch relationally and intimately.

Sex has been a problem for 6-8 years. Your son is 6. Sounds like she had sex to use you as a ***** donor, and you are using the resulting child as your reason for staying in the marriage. It is possible to be a caring, involved father after divorce. For some people, losing things like a house and truck would be worth it if that was the way to free themselves from a miserable relationship.

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You know marriage is about going through the good and bad times. Giving each other room and understanding, compromising, and being patient. I have given understanding and time for him to address his issue. All the while indicating to him every once and a while that I am still very much attracted to him and he makes me horny just by looking at him and I want sex. I can't caress or touch him without getting horny.

But ultimately, in my case being 43 and for 15 years of marriage we have had no sex. Sex stopped right before we got married. Didn't even have sex on our 2 week honeymoon in hawaii.

It is selfish in a massive way on his part. And he knows I am horny and I want the intimacy. And instead he has moved even sleeping into the other room. We no longer even share the same bed as of a couple of years ago.

Sorry, but even if he doesn't want to get it up. he should still love me enough to want to please me in a oral way. And he hasn't offered to do that either!

And the sad thing is a few months ago, I found out he wears diapers at night. yes right after we got married he started wearing diapers. He waited for me to go to sleep to put them on and would always wake before me. I am a sound sleeper.

And no, I don't think I would have married a man with a diaper fetish. But he claims that fetish didn't start until we got married.

And no he didn't tell me this secret. He accidentally left out one of his diapers on the kitchen counter.

And yes he defecates in his diapers at night. he says only #1 but who knows.

I also found out 5-10 years ago he rather stick a piece of plastic tubing of his pee hole and jack off, then to get a blow job from his wife. All these years I just thought I wasn't doing it right. Maybe not? But after finding the diapers a few months ago, I wonder if it is my ability to give a blow job. Or his issue. All these years he has made me think through actions (not words) that I just wasn't cutting it.

And the plastic tubing was another secret I found out by accident through looking at credit card billing statements.

Again had I known that I would not have married him.

The question is do I stay with him. because this is not the only behavioral issues he has. I am starting to think about my exit strategy.

Last night I got dolled up we went out to a local concert with him. Came back home. He was letting the dog out to go to bed. And I was horny, and I expressed it in a very physical way. kissing, touching, rubbing.

All he could say after 5 minutes and no arousal was he wasn't interested, he was tired.

I said, you don't find me attractive and I am just not doing it for you uh? He said "I Love you". I said that wasn't the question. And he gave this sad little sound.

I said I am so horny my vagina is pulsating.

then we kissed and he went to HIS bedroom and went to bed.

Yet my heart breaks every time I think of us being apart.

But I honestly can't see our future together. Growing old. All I can see is him and his brother growing old and living in the same house together.

And it makes me extremely sad because I love him so deeply.

Sometimes love can't conquer all I guess.

The only good thing is we have no children. I was wise enough to not do that.

We're all in this together but Yet We're all in this all alone too! I've never been married and more likely I won't coz I'm not marriage material and My genes aren't for spawning kids. People in My family are insane. I have nightmares after dealing with them because they scarred Me for life when I was little. It seems I have issues Myself, I know. I like to try and have My life as serene as possible.

You can have healing and a loving partner. You just have to seek it with everything you've got.

good heavens! Lovinita your situation sounds so familiar.

The betrayal is on so many levels.

He refused(es) to really reveal his sexual interests with you.
He sold you something fake --a package of garbage with a deceptive label.
He promised to be the one and only source of love and sexual happiness so you would need no other.
He has never, for one day met his promises to you.

The fact that he hides his real sexuality from you and your only source of info is your accidental discovery of evidence has to hurt more than anything.

Why can't these people stop gaming and just be honest? Everyone would be so much happier in the end. Everyone would be given accurate information that would facilitate an informed choice for all concerned.

What is he giving you really? Maybe you two can come to an understanding that since he gets his diaper fun and exemptions from conjugal duties, you will outsource those, effective immediately!

If he can have his sexual needs fulfilled through his diaper fetish, surely it would be fair for you to have your needs fulfilled via outsourcing or leaving the marriage. He is cheating you by taking care of only himself sexually. You don't have to accept a relationship in which he gets sexual fulfillment and you get nothing.

No he doesn't love you at all. Love is action. It is a verb. If he loved you, he would care deeply about your need and have a longing to fulfill it in anyway he can, even if he is sexually unable to get aroused with you. He would at least eat your puss*, make you ***, etc at every opportunity. If he is having a hard time even doing that, then he would at least show a willingness to communicate about it and/or seek sexual counseling from a good sex therapist (Have you tried asking him to communicate or try that?).

This is a rather sick story - the diapers and feces and tubing etc while depriving his own wife of love. He has very serious psychological problems.

Sounds like he's got a lot of issues. You need counseling to sort all of this out. This sounds devastating to a person. His behaviors can only hurt you. Please get help.

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Lots of painful truths in your post. I'm sorry you have gone through this and hope you find you find your happiness someday.<br />
<br />
Question or insight...<br />
I feel I was the cruel one. Things were very awkward in the beginning and I started rejecting him at first. I tried to talk with him about it in the most respectful and gentle ways possible but each time, he took a defensive posture which shut down any further communication. Eventually, I started telling him I was a cold fish to avoid the arguments and if he wanted us to work on it we would have to see a therapist together. We never did.<br />
<br />
I've recently embarked on a new process to reconnect with him and try again. Its pretty obvious there are things he doesn't want to hear and simply won't entertain... anything that has to do with his actions as being partially responsibly.<br />
<br />
I may have been cruel, but I think he's been cruel too??

Wow, this sounds so familiar. At age 32, my wife decided sex was not going to happen. first it was about her being to tired, then too stressed, etc. But even on vacations she was impossible to even share a bed with. Sure she was stressed out! Why? Because she was worried I would want to have sex with her! She pushed me out. After five years of this, I found myself being very angry at her. So I found the guest bedroom better suited to my taste. At about 7 yrs of no sex, we got into a big fight. I wanted her to come with me to counciling. Our marriage was on the verge of death.
She felt this was my way of blaming her for our troubles. I was so careful to always use the words..."WE" ..... as in we need to change or loose what we once had. To cut to the chase, she refused to go. She told me I was not there to support her when she needed me? this I never understood.
So we are still married....no sex...no prospect of sex. I am now 59 yrs old, and maybe unable to have sex. So now I am less inclined to pack and leave. she does not want a Divorce, and of course she has zero interest in sex with me. As she put it those many years ago...."I love sex, just not with you!"
I supposed at the time that she just wanted to hurt me as much as she could because I brought up the "sex" thing again. Now, many years later, I think she meant it. Sad!

I got a divorce at age 62 after 34 years of marriage, the last 8 years of which -- and much of the rest of the marriage -- were completely sexless. To my joy, I have found that I still am a sexual person. I ended up in a fulfilling relationship -- sexual and romantic --with a single man my age.

At age 59, you may have almost 30 years of life left if you live a normal life span. It's up to you how you spend it. I do not regret at all leaving my marriage. I would rather have no relationship at all than still be in the barren marriage I was in.

Thank You, it is good to know there is still some hope.

Mettamomma, I am so happy to see your happy ending here. Good for you. May you and your new beau spend as much time in blissful lovemaking now as you spent wanting for this during your former marriage!

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This is my life. I feel your pain. It's just mean. I hope you find your way out. I'm working on my way out.

What if a Man is "Just friends" with a woman that used to be a SO at one point, does this still apply or what? I feel She wants More She's much older than I am and I care for Her as a dear friend but I just can't seem to bring Myself to give into her like that and I have these immense feelings of guilt. We live in the ghost of love but aren't intimate.

is she your wife?

Re: "And now I'm off to run my 3 miles!!!"

This one makes me wanna laugh and cry at the same time. :-)
On the plus side, I'm in better *physical* shape than I was in college. Damned tough sell as a weight loss program, though.

Yes, she could be embarrassed talking to her doctor about her libido, but if she really cared about her husband, she would address her problem, not give her husband permission to have an affair. Maybe she has no libidio with her husband because she is -- like my ex-- getting it on elsewhere.

I totally agree. I was married for 3 decades to a man who totally avoided sex with me for the last 8 years of our marriage, and who had avoided sex with me for periods of 3 to 5 years before that.

Oh, he was nice in many ways- cooked for me, talked wonderfully about me to others, shared in child rearing, but was not there for me in a sexually or emotionately intimately way. Friends tried to tell me that he was narcissistic, selfish and emotionally abusive, but I did not believe them for a long time.

When I finally decided I deserved better -- including a satisfying sex life-- I decided to divorce him. Then he revealed he had been in a long term affair with a much younger woman and had a child by her!!!! And to think, I had thought he was impotent!

I was disappointed at how he had been living such a lie, but I was delighted to have a reason ti dump him that no one including our sons could blame me for. I also no longer had doubts that he was a selfish, narcissistic man who had emotionally abused me by depriving me of intimacy while making sure his needs were taken care of.

I am now in a relationship with a man who is a wonderful lover who enjoys my sensuality. I only regret wasting so many years with my ex. I know now that its not love or worth hanging onto if a romantic relationship is without sex even though one partner wants that intimacy. It's not selfish or shallow to expect sex to be part of a marriage or other romantic relationship.

Damn!

I don't know if this makes me feel better or worse.

Well said, and truthful. I feel like printing it out and leaving it on the kitchen table.

Hmmm...good idea (printing it out).
Best to you!

well said! Too bad we couldn't include this piece (as a required reading) with the premarital paperwork.