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Fire And Ice

I say Fire and Ice because that is how I see what is going on now in my marriage.  I had a long talk with my H again on Friday night and as agreed upon earlier I am giving him until the end of the school year.  He has about 6 more weeks, give or take.  Several things were discussed to include the fact that the last two weeks had been very similar to all the other time before.  I said that things had reverted and I was seeing the same behavior.  He explained that he was so stressed he just couldn't handle things.

I asked why he didn't talk to me so that I could help?  He couldn't explain.  Just like always.  We shared what started out as a nice passionate kiss and then in the middle of the kiss he pulled back and left it up to me to decide whether or not to continue.  There was no passion what so ever!  It started like it would be but it died the minute I began to participate, almost like he was afraid that it might lead to something else.

The counselor said that I should talk to him, my H, and try to make a plan to do something special for each other every day.  I promised I would try to do this but I'm just not feeling it.  I will keep my promise but I see it as a set up for more heartache.  The doctor said I should try and give him every chance so that when I left I would have no regrets.  Now after thinking for awhile, I have to wonder, haven't I been doing that for the last 10 years without any change?

Why do I keep doing this to myself?  I am a glutton for punishment.  I truly believe that I can not do this any longer but I will keep my promise.  I feel like I am not becoming the refuser and I am really starting to hate myself for how I feel.  I don't want to be this person.  This is what I was trying so hard to avoid and now it appears to be too late.  I wish it was the middle of June now and I could just start packing. Ahhhhh!!!!!

Thanks for reading, comment if you have something to say. :)
greenpfenig greenpfenig 46-50, F 16 Responses May 1, 2012

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Okay! For every problem there is an answer.It seems to me that you want to keep your merrige and you want your children not to have they're lives messed up over the family breaking up.Am I right?You need to enjoy your life and you need sex just like every body one else.I know that it is not just all about sex.Its him not seeming to care about your needs.And that hurts you deep inside.Its about fighting and upsetting the kids,making there lives stressfull while they are tring to deal with the problems we all had growing up.Stop bothering him about sex and trying to make him feel bad for not giving it to you.Let his ego have him do what ever he wants or dosnt want.Tell him that you understand and that your fine with him the way he is.Let him know that you deeply love him and support him. And its all going to be Ok.Then go on with your life and merrige and hold your family together.<br />
Now heres what to do.You deserve to have all the excitement and pleasure and fun pluse you need to be touched and petted just like we all do to reduce the stress of life.You should have something to look forward to just for you.If you wish to keep that family together and not be misreble and sad all the time you can have both.Find your self a friend with benifits.Some one to play together with.Or even get one or two more than just the one.Have a great sex life and keep your family together and he can have his ego and be protected from his fears.Maybe find another person thats a man that has the same problem you have with his spouse.<br />
Get you a lover and enjoy your life and family.No need for guilt because you wouldnt going home to have sex with him after.this will work for you.

Wrap the pipe in a towel and it won't leave a mark. Another suggestion from my Evil Twin.

Love it! LOL

Use that six weeks to prepare for removing the splinters from Deadwood **** in your life. Start living now as if he isn't there any more because as of now he is irrelevant. You have decided what you want to do and you are proceeding toward that goal. Playing these games with counselors and all that is bullshit and you know it, you are doing it to try and keep Deadwood quiet until you can get him to the deadline and give him the heave ho. It appears you don't like confrontation well that's understandable I suppose so you are putting a bag over his head and keeping him in the dark until you finally get him outside the door then you can tell him to vamoose. Problem is he's clinging to your leg. I can highly recommend a short length of iron pipe it works wonders. My Evil Twin said that.

Thanks, and I like your evil twin. But, I promise not to cause any bodily harm, at least not physically. :)

Hoping these 6 weeks will go by fats and painless and not dreadful and slow.<br />
Best of luck to ya

It seems like your doing everything that you can do. A relationship take two people to work, he needs to try too.

*takes

The writing is well on the wall here.<br />
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Six (6) weeks !!<br />
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There is no known way - even with the best of goodwill and total effort by all involved - that the ills of the prior ten (10) years can be addressed. Added to that is the fact that NOW, there is not even one (1) person giving it their all, let alone two (2).<br />
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Reckon the 6 weeks would best be used knocking your exit strategy into shape. That'd be an achievable goal.<br />
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Tread your own path.

green: the amount of "effort" you want to engage in is absolutely up to YOU.<br />
<br />
Your amount of effort will be different than the next person. And NO ONE can make that determination. Not even your husband.<br />
<br />
People can advise, but ultimately, YOU are the deciding factor. <br />
<br />
You will eventually tire of this game. I read that all this "effort" you are supposed to be engaging is only buying time for the husband to keep hanging onto something that is going to eventually be buried.<br />
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Marriage is supposed to be a team effort. You don't have a team.<br />
<br />
It is a wise person who knows when to hold them, and more importantly, knows when to fold them.

I agree, it is a team effort and my team fell apart a long time ago. I just didn't realize that I was the one holding the ball and wondering where the batter went. :)

This may sound crazy , but I envy you. Your plan is fool proof . I know that there are feelings involved and this make it hard to carry it out but you seem to have it together. I am a walking ball of confusion .

I might sound like I have it together but I am one big ball of nerves. Especially since my children are involved and I could cause a serious set back to my son. It is difficult at best but I am trying to stay positive. Thanks for the encouragement.

Having doubts about doubts? Things can get a tad tricky at that point. 😃<br />
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My brother's favourite catchphrase is "I don't want to talk about it". Just about anything emotionally stressing. It's a bit of an in-family joke. Some things are stressful to talk about, no doubt but you can't afford for it to be impossible. The potential cost is just too high. The dire irony is that your hubbie can't talk about stressful things or do stressful things because of fear of failure while not being able to contend with the inevitability that failure is then built in. You probably know all this and probably instinctively think it should be fixable because it would be for you, but for him it's just an impossibility. His ego is just that fragile. ba<x>sed on the historical trends this will probably not change. So...

So true, so very true. My H is the same when it comes to stress. "nothing's wrong, I don't want to talk about it." or worse, when he thinks I'm not paying attention, "You never listen to me when I speak, so why should I talk to you?"

When you can afford to be objective about it, it is just sad, isn't it? Baffling but still sad. Self-salvation so near, but yet so far. When he says you don't listen probably what he really means is that you won't accept his short-comings and fears. Rather than overcome his fears and grow as an individual he opts to succumb to those fears. It is in the same instance understandable but unacceptable. Yet although the fear is real and valid it is disproportionate. He is his own victim.

When someone (counsellor, doctor, well meaning friend, whatever) suggests you do something, you do not HAVE to do it. I totally agree with Awake - only do it if it feels valid and what you WANT to do.<br />
<br />
Counsellors in particular will often suggest actions in order to see what reaction it provokes in you - because they know that only personal realisation will result in a positive outcome.<br />
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For example: your counsellor has suggested you plan to do something special with him every day. If your heart and soul were fully invested in saving your marriage, you would not question this - you'd do your utmost to achieve it. But you feel reluctant, ba<x>sed on all the unreciprocated effort you have invested over many years.<br />
<br />
So what is this telling you? It is telling you that you are DONE! And now that you fully realise that, there is NO point in continuing with these last "kiss of life" actions to save something you don't want to save.<br />
<br />
You can tell the therapist and the doctor that you came to the conclusion that you no longer WANT to save the marriage - it is simply too late.<br />
<br />
And you could tell your husband that, whilst he still has the six weeks, you personally will be doing nothing to regain and recover the relationship in that time. I confidently predict he will take that as "permission" to do nothing either!!

It sounds to me like he already has interpreted things as permission to do nothing either.

Exactly! I'm betting that if Green stops trying he will be horrified! How dare SHE give up on the marriage? lol

Thank you for your kind and insightful comments once again Enna. You are always a calm voice of reason for me.

I don't think the counseling is helping us. So I made my thoughts on it clear the last time we went, and H never reacted, talked, anything. We just continue our co habitation. The counselor even asked him why he doesn't approach me, or ask how I'm doing, or whats wrong when its obvious I'm hurting. He says he just doesn't know, but he's the one that insist on going to counseling! wtf<br />
<br />
I've have learned with him the he absolutely will not discuss intimacy with me unless I'm jumping up and down insisting. Then as soon as its talked out...he gives up a minute of attention...and then were right back in the swing. No effort unless I am constantly pushing for effort. Sound familiar?<br />
<br />
I decided I wasn't going to push to get reactions or push to get him to communicate, I simply wasn't going to do anything. I have not refused to be around him, I haven't argued, everything basically has been kept very sub surface, very non personal. still, he doesn't voice a concern, response, need, anything. Slowly Ive started sleeping upstairs....no comment no response. I figured sooner or later he would have to come out of his comfort zone and approach me. Nope not yet! He did start logging into my facebook. So I deleted it, told him anything in there he can communicate directly with me, not a screen.<br />
I'm sure the counselor with slap me for acting this way while H just sits there with his I don't know answer to everything. Keep in mind, my counselor doesn't see a problem with months and months of no sex. <br />
Sorry I meant to sound inspiring, instead I started ranting! I guess what I was trying to stay is I do sympathize and I wonder myself how long will his show go on with us.

You need a new counselor. If they don't see a problem with multiple months of no sex, move on to someone who doesn't think a sexless marriage sounds normal.

Your counselor is a complete incompetent, I totally agree with CWDYG. If they were any good, they'd have your "I don't know" husband working hard with sweat on his forehead on finding out what it is he doesn't know, Right Now.

I want to agree, but I've really put myself in a world of self doubt.
This whole issue started halfway through our relationship. Typical story; sex dwindled, excuses, etc... I tried to dismiss it because he was the only one I truly felt good to be with. He inspired me, he made me feel desired and beautiful. So it came as such a cold slap when he started to turn away from me.
I remember once we had the whole day to ourselves...which you parents understand is oh so appreciated! We made plans to visit an adult bookstore to get a few fun things. I suggested some cute body paints that a few years ago he said he liked the idea of making art on me...I blushed at the idea then.
But now when I suggested buying it, he just cringed and walked away. It would bethe first of many times I was left wondering what's going on.
I tried to talk to him and it was the same I dunno, I still love you, I dunno, it's not you it's me.
Sex three times a week, moved to once a month, to once every couple of months, to every three months. I felt like I was losing my mind.
I finally asked him, what's wrong? What can I do? What did I do? " I dunno, I love you, I'm going to see a doctor"
Well, two checkups with his doctor later...he never brought it up with his doctor. I thought well it must be difficult to talk about. Wrong. He would tell me how him and the doctor would just shoot the breeze and talk about anything and everything for a half hour. Said at first he felt bad taking up his time, but the doctor just kept talking.
I was breaking apart inside. The next week I looked him in the face and said " I love you, I love you more than I could ever try to explain. I'm dying inside because I can't bare reminding you what you already know so this will be the only time you will have to hear this. I believe it's time we find sexual gratification outside our relationship. I can't keep living so angry towards you and I can't make you want me."
I saw his eyes well up, he said i dont want that and he just turned away and left for work.
Weeks went by again, like nothing ever happen. So I went through with. I met someone from ashley Madison and at the time felt gratifying. I felt like a woman again.
Of course I got caught and started the downward spiral, and back up again through forgiveness.
But we haven't progressed, we're exactly in the same place we were last year. Now, I think about if we ever do get intimate again, can I go through with it?
I just don't feel very human anymore, and when I tell my glorified counselor this all I hear is "well we're working towards a healthier you."

You are wasting time with counselors when you have someone that isn't participating. I don't know is just a cop out an easy way to avoid a confrontation of the issue. The issue is that he is avoiding intimacy with you and that means he's unofficially divorced you and pushed you into the status of a roommate. So what you had an affair there's nothing there that needs to be forgiven, he rejected you and doesn't want what you have to offer so you have the right to go elsewhere he does not own you especially since he's unofficially divorced you. You might just as well get the paperwork done and move on Deadwood **** is finished with you and there won't be a fix because he simply doesn't care. "I don't know" is bullshit he does know but he's too chickenshit to come out and say it and set you free because it makes him look like the balless wonder that he really is. Run Far, Run Fast, Be Free. Good Luck.

Wow Warrior well put. I have a counseling appt tomorrow...I may have to steal some of that thunder from you.

Thank you

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To me, it sounds like you still have something there, but have you been telling each other how much you appreciate each other? Or doing things for each other now and then? Trying foreplay, doing things together, getting him de-stressed from work? Why don't you try to take a day off. Re-explore your marriage, and the reasons why you decided to get married. Sex isn't always the answer, but it shouldn't be all about sex. Find out what you two like about each other. It sounds as if you two got so used to being around each other that you don't even bother with each other. Keep your marriage alive & good luck!!

Young women with no life experience should NOT give advice on this topic, ebn though it is well intentioned.

I wanted to let you know that for 10 years, I have tried everything I can to make this work. He doesn't communicate, he doesn't want to have sex/foreplay, and he has no passion. He procrastinates and it is most definitely not all about SEX!!! You should read my other posts and then you will understand.

Green, please don't waste your precious time explaining things to this interloping child.

The only regret you have is for the additional time you wasted because as you can see nothing has changed. If he was making a sincere effort there would have been big noticeable changes that happened immediately. So in effect he's saying it's just not worth any effort to him so he continues on his merry way being the same as before. You've been slapped down enough don't you think you should have calluses by now. Really there's no point in continuing this farce with pretending to be nicey nice and all that rot. It 100% over ding dong the witch is dead and it's time for you to set off on the yellow brick road. Go and don't look back soon those legs will shrivel up and shrink back under the house and you'll be free of him once and for all.

Regrets? How about the regret of trying for so long, the regrets of not heeding the signs, the wtf moments, the regret of wasting so much time beating a dead horse, the regret of falling into their comfort cycles over and over again....those are the ones you have to take with you.......Stay your course, the best to you...

It sounds like we both have the same deadline. And the same battle. Giving them try after try. Conversation after conversation so that in the end we can walk away with a clean conscience. Knowing that we tried. That we did all we could to make it better on our end. And that they, the H's just did not care enough to fight the battle

best of luck iam, I hope it goes well for you.

Well look at it this way. At this point what do you have to loose? It actually could save you the whole guilt thing years down the road of 'Did I do all I could"? Not that you didn't. <br />
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I think it is just an excercize in self realization we all must go through. It makes sense. This way if & when you do leave you can look back without regret. Best of all you can have guilt free HOT sex & passion again. I know I have....lol<br />
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Bang Away<br />
NSH :-)

Thanks NSH! I needed to be reminded of that.

...Oh stop rubbing it in NSH! lol

:-D