They Believe Their Own Lies

I can't get past this because what I'm seeing here confirms it. The people that we call refusers believe their own lies, they make up little stories that they tell themselves about how their lives are and believe that's reality. That's the only way I can account for some of the things that I've seen here. I saw a comment a while ago where someone was looking at her mate’s face-book page where he was describing the breakup of his marriage as out of the blue. The reality was years of being a refuser and torturing his mate in a sexless marriage but this guy believes it was out of the blue and didn't recognize that anything was wrong with the way things were. It means that they are totally zoning us out whenever we express dissatisfaction with them or our marriage. It's like there is a circuit in their brain that cuts out when it hears anything about sex, relationship, or intimacy.

I guess we need to all buy a two by four or a baseball bat to get there attention (that might not be a good idea because it might be hard for us to stop hitting them) but you get the idea. You know most of us here are above average smart so how is it that we are getting taken in by these butt-holes? I think in their minds they believe that they have to pretend during courtship so that they can hook someone, but after the deed is done they see no need for further maintenance of the relationship. I guess they see marriage like hunting once the bird is in the bag the hunt is over. Most of us have looked into these dead eyed zombies faces and seen that there's nobody home when we try to talk to them, frequently they totally ignore us.

I suppose what we need to do is come up with a dead eyed zombie test so we could avoid them, maybe we can find a way to make something they can pee on like a pregnancy test and it will turn black as an indicator that they are dead inside. But with so many new members here and the divorce rate through the roof. I think we need to rethink how we handle relationships because traditional marriage just isn't doing a very good job for too many people, so much for my daily tirade from the soapbox.
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13 Responses May 23, 2012

When I told my spouse I was done, after 34 years of nothing,I just wanted out. This was a shock to the man. You could see he was counting years in his head ....the years.....he was assuming... I was exagerating. But you see, I had the advantage because I could associate that date to a date before we moved to Canada. And that date was in 1988. Plus the 9 years we lived over seas. And so, he had no choice but to accept the reality of the truth. But most people can not prove a certain date or time fr<x>ame, and so they are dismissed.My spouse was content with our life, had not a clue about my unhappiness. He felt I was over reacting. And so for those people that think their spouse is as hurt by all of this sexual nothing as they are. I would advise them to think again. I don't know why one person is so sexually dead inside, and the other not, all I know is that it happens. And, I am not confident that a sexual re-awakening is long lasting. I know it is possible to rekindle the intimacy, but I am not sure you could count on it long term. At least, I was afraid to take that risk with a person that cost me so many tears and heartache, and did not even notice that we had a problem. Had my spouse been a more interested partner in keeping us as a couple, I am sure my attitude would have been different.But that means our whole married life would have been different. We would have faced our problem long ago. And we would have faced it together, instead of each of us living alone in the same house. One being quite content, and the other adrift in a lifeless marriage.

..........odd how they still wont belive in the truth.....even if its thrown into their face! then they turn on ya, acting all pissy ...

let's try to be true to ourselves. If we are that, we will be able to deal with problems. I think it means asking yourself when you are in a quandry, "Am I good with this?" Do I feel good about it? If not, work on your behaviour until you are good with your action or inaction. Not acting is a choice too. I debated long and hard over the choices in relationshipships I have made. I feel I have been true to myself. So far.

Most men think that women stop wanting sex after a few years in a marriage, so what about me. My husband refuses to have sex with me when I want it....He is always tired or not in the mood.....I can fully relate to having a sexless marriage after having a child, but its my husband who refuses......The thing is all the guys are work will jump at the opportunity to get me in bed, what I do not understand is why my husband won't.....I love sex and my lack of it is driving me crazy.

Then jump into bed with one of them. I would if I had an offer. My husband broke our marriage vows a long time ago. Just tonight he sat on our bed and made excuses why we don't have any interaction- not just sex- and every reason was "my fault" not his. I wonder why I even think about having sex with him anymore.

The term "lie" involves a deliberate, cognizant, and calculated deception, rather than a fiction in which they, themselves may be invested. I'm not sure it changes much in the end result, but it I do think it may affect the attitude with which one treats a partner. While recovery is a long road, and an unlikely one, I think failure is a certainty when there is no generosity.<br />
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I have BEEN intimacy averse, over a decade ago, and I was one of those who recovered from it fully, and with the same partner. I can assure you that my partner at the time had all kinds of questions as to "why", and I tried to figure it out to the best of my ability, helpfully pointing to whatever stress was going on in my life at the time, starting at the top. But I know, from the other side of it now, that those things had little to do with whatever I was feeling at the time toward my partner. I was not LYING to her. My aversion was likely due to a complex knot of issues rooted partly in the relationship that preceded her. My Dr Phil armchair psychologist guess, as far as my decade-later wisdom can provide, is that my aversion was due to assert control over my OWN sexuality --and there is no way I would have been cognizant of that, then, because that was a context as wide as the ocean then --extending so far I no longer saw it. When I was asked, back then, I instead pointed to flashpoints like job stress, or her approach, or sundry gripes.

dang, reading all these comments, is sex that important to you that you'd leave the person you vowed to stay together with no matter what?<br />
Nothing wrong with sex but, I think there's also a problem with what people think are vows, commitments, and contracts these days.<br />
Do you leave a son on the curb because you feel he doesn't love you enough?<br />
Put your dog in the streets cause he doesn't want to sit on your lap?

well, you don't gotta be going around calling people dumb : P but I get your point now. Still, marriage is slavery, people before understood that and what that meant.

If anyone was offended my my comment, please ignore it. I apologize, I am a young and stupid bipolar kid, I'll keep my opinions to myself and move on.

Naahh... that approach doesn't work well for anyone. Stay in the discussion, read and learn. If you're young then you may have a chance to learn a great deal to apply in your own relationships and to keep them healthy. I think what you're missing in the discussion here, particularly in posts written by people when they are in acute emotional pain, is the terrible sense of betrayal we feel when we actually come to terms with the scope of the problem in a sexless marriage. As warriorpoet said, it isn't really just about sex. The lack of sex tends to drive us into action and that process in turn forces us to see, and acknowledge, the real depths of the problems we face. Sex becomes the tipping issue, so to speak, but it is also a metaphor for the loss of connection and oneness that is the essence of the marriage. If my relationship with my wife is that of really good hired staff - cooking, cleaning, financial supporting, co-parenting - but nothing more, then I have been defrauded in the most important and cherished part of my life. And it is precisely because I take my marriage vows so seriously that this rises to the level of betrayal; I have already sealed my doom in a sense. So stick around, read and learn.

You're not thinking this through far enough.

It's not the lack of sex. It's the lack of love. It's the cold DISINTEREST that they show. It's the lying about it - rather than say, "I don't love you and I don't want to have sex with you.", they'll come up with these elaborate excuses - everything like "You weren't in the room (but you were in the house) when I was 'excited' 3 times this week, so I rubbed them out by myself." or "You have a broken ankle, so we can't have sex." or "We can't have sex because it's Sunday." Then there are the "medical" excuses - low testosterone, backache, diabetes. I even had one come up with some bizarre ones - like claiming (maybe believing) he had muscular dystrophy or polio!

The marriage vow is not just "for better or worse, in sickness and in health". "Love, honor, and cherish/obey" is there. "To have and to hold" is there.

Someone refusing to have sex with their spouse for months or years on end really HAS divorced their spouse. They just haven't bothered to inform them. It's no wonder. Other forms of interpersonal interaction go away in the same scenario - I've had roommates with whom I was fighting and they weren't talking to me that spoke to me more often than my refuser XH did.

"Bipolar" can be used as an excuse to be unthinking and offensive or even abusive. YOU have control over your actions. Just think before you act... in any regard.

I was just sharing my opinion. The opinion of a young bipolar kid. It was not an excuse, but rather a way that people can see where my opinion is coming from. I already withdrew my opinion. If it continues to be offensive to people, I can just take down my comment. There's no reason to be aggressive toward it.

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I'm belong to the group who is or was satisfied with the crumbs that have dwindled to nothing. Now 20 odd years and much resentment later, I realise I'm too old to make a change. To be honest I also realized that even if I had had the power, the money etc to have left earlier, I didn't have the self-belief to do so.

Souch, with all due respect, you now hide behind another justification. You crossed off power, ruled through money, then self belief, and now hang it on "age". I am pretty sure I could point out about 14 contributers to this board who got out, at an age greater than your 46-50 demographic.

Thanks for not sugarcoating it and in all probability you're correct. Then on the other hand loads of energy is required for a relaunch and statistically speaking one is at a distinct disadvantage already in my age demographic!

With respect and not to bash you, I call bullshit. This stuff hurts like hell. But that is no reason to squander your remaining years. I fear your rationalization is going to feel colder and colder the more you try to find comfort in it, and the reason is there is no comfort to be found there. this isn't about your demographic; its about your life and whether you plan to endure it, or live it. Please, whatever your choices turn out to be, make them in support of living, as opposed to wasting your life.

I got out when I was just a little younger than you. I was determined not to ever get into another relationship - let alone marriage.

You'll be less lonely alone than in a SM.

And.... you might find yourself surprised.

I agree with Souchong. I am too old and not motivated enough to leave. Maybe I am the one who is lying not him. Maybe I am not worth the effort. I know too many people my age who leave a marriage (for one reason or another) and are alone- and not by their own choice, and those people are so much better than me.

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I have a new rule I live by: I don't trust anyone who doesn't love themselves.

In the final analysis, both refuser and refusee lie to themselves and each other to keep a sexless marriage going. This is how so many sexless marriages last for years. For a lie to work, there must be a believer. Its only a lie when you stop believing it.

She wanted a ***** donor for a baby and a paycheck to help support her and the child through adulthood. After you'd donated sufficient ***** to create that child (all the children (she) wants), she had what she wanted, and there was no reason to put up with any more sex.

Now the question is what are you going to do about it? As far as keeping the 2-parent home - do you want your child to recreate this experience in their own marriage, or stay away from relationships because of this? Or, do you think it would be better to model each of their parents being happy alone, or in a marriage with a stepparent who loves their parent?

I think of it this way...<br />
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they really don't understand the need to feel wanted and desired. <br />
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To them, leaving a marriage because of no sex makes no sense. To reverse the example, it would be like them divorcing us because we have a sex drive. <br />
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Which I know leave me thinking, WTF?

*Hmmm, a marriage contract should come under review every 5 years, arbitrated by specially trained people.....hmmm<br />
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*Or we should have special classes in school to teach " Here is your brain, here is your brain on Sex" They could even recycle the old fried-egg posters!<br />
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*Or bring back arranged marriages, where wise elders pick suitable mates for us! I can see the oldsters in the community hall with this years marriageable group;<br />
"Alright, we want all the sex people to stand together over here, and all you sexless wonders can jump in the creek! Dagnabbit!"<br />
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*How about a compulsory marriage preparation course, where you and your fiancee are dropped off in the wild with minimal supplies for 2 weeks? I bet some character flaws would come to light in those circumstances.<br />
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*I GOT IT! Stating your wedding vows at the wedding ceremony while wearing a polygraph machine? (Thing-a-ma-bob) one buzz and you're out!

I agree with the marriage contract review. When my wife changed her behavour towards me became a refuser, loud, &amp; bitchy, i viewed it as a change of contract without consultation with me. I definitely didn't sign up to the contract it had become. Simple i reviewed the contract and her behavour and adjusted it to suit me. So in short i agree with that concept

I fear we all tell ourselves lies sometimes, and convenient stories. Like they love us, it's all great bar the sex, it's just a little thing.....<br />
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I've just started reading Robert Trivers's book on deceit and self-deception and will report back if there's anything relevant there. The basic premise is that you fool yourself the better to fool others.

I'm all for the dead-eyed zombie test!<br />
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In support of your statements above...Just this past weekend, my stbx stated that he was so confused about "how this all came about." He lamented, "I don't know what to tell my family, because I still don't know why you're leaving me!"<br />
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