I Don't Live In A Sexless Marriage...

I don't live in ANY marriage.  My husband died fourteen years ago, at the age of thirty-nine.  I was thirty-seven at that time.  Now, I'm fifty-one.  I haven't remarried.  I've had one LTR with a guy who didn't treat me well and was really no good.

It kills me to read all of the stories from people who are ready to leave their marriages because their spouses don't want to have sex with them.  It kills me because I'd love to have a marriage and all of the love and companionship that comes with it, and I wouldn't give a hoot if there was no sex involved.  I had sex with my husband because it made him happy, and I wanted children, but it was never a big deal to me.  If he were ONLY still alive, I wouldn't care if he had become impotent and I wouldn't care if he just stopped wanting sex, just to have him back.

I don't understand why such a big deal is made out of sex, and it hurts to see people ready to throw away what they have, what they have that I dearly want, just because they are not getting sex.  I just don't get it!  I don't get it!  Any woman out there, if you are ready to leave your husband because he won't have sex with you, send him my way!  He will receive a warm welcome and be happily accepted for what he is!  Thank you.

I would like to add that I thank everyone who has expressed condolences on the loss of my husband.
queenv60 queenv60
51-55, F
33 Responses May 30, 2012

Response to both zorbas: I engaged in sex not really as an "accommodation". It was because it made my husband happy, and the fact that it made him happy made me happy. Some of the time, it was for childbearing, but since we had only two children during our seventeen year marriage, because two was all we wanted, and there was a planned five year gap between them, and the second one was born eleven years before my husband died, most of the sex we had was definitely not for procreative purposes. My husband was not aware of how I felt about sex. He believed that I got something out of it physically, though I never really did. I disagree that this made my marriage a charade. We were very mutually happy together. He was happy with all aspects of me, he loved me for myself and he enjoyed sex. I loved him for him, and I didn't mind having sex. He never felt it was a charade, I never felt it was a charade, and what we felt is really all that matters. I knew that I was just not that sexual a person, that I would not be with anyone (and this has been proven very true since he died), but that was no reason that either he or I should forgo a marriage that would make us both very happy. There was no reason for me to say, "I will never get married and never have a family because I don't care for sex." No reason for that at all, I knew that I could participate in a sexual marriage and I was more than willing to do it. But I don't claim it's the norm. I never thought it was the norm, I just thought that people should appreciate things about marriage other than sex, it seemed that they were not, but I didn't understand that most of them are complaining about a lot more than that.<br />
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Reply to enna30: It's funny you comparing a lack of sexual desire to climbing Mount Everest, because that's exactly how I feel about it. Many people don't care for many things, so they don't do those things, and nobody insists that they must be unfulfilled because they don't participate in something that they don't care for. I feel the same way about sex. Why must I be unfulfilled because there's something other people enjoy that I just don't enjoy? I agree that it's something I just don't understand. To answer your question, no, my husband never knew that I never got anything physically out of sex. It didn't matter to me, and there was no reason it should matter to me, therefore, there was no reason he should know. It made no difference. We had an active sex life, he was happy with it, and I wasn't unhappy with it. There was just no reason. It did not matter to me. I felt no desire whatsoever to seek sex with someone else, because I felt that I was missing nothing, and I knew that it would be no different with anyone else. We were happy. That's all that mattered. He never showed disappointment at my "lack of enthusiasm" because there WAS no "lack of enthusiasm". I showed plenty of enthusiasm. I just didn't really feel the enthusiasm. But I showed it. He showed no disappointment that I wasn't "into" sex, because I gave every indication that I was "into" sex. I did that for him. He meant that much to me.<br />
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That would not have been true for everyone, and the situation I'm now in proves it. My on-again, off-again relationship is on again. But there's a problem. First off, I do not love this man the way I loved my husband. Secondly, I've noticed since I've gone through menopause that I don't have the tolerance level for sex that I once did. Thirdly, this guy is excessive in his demands. He wants sex every single day, two or three times a day, and will ask for it again twenty minutes after we've done it. I can't take this anymore. I do not have the feeling for him that I did for my husband, so I'm not willing and I'm not able to show enthusiasm I don't feel for him, and so I've told him he needs to go find someone else to have sex with, and I totally and completely mean this, he's cheated on me anyway and I know it and I've cheated on him anyway and he knows it, we've sort of always had an open relationship, so he needs to go find someone else, but he won't do it! Aaaarrggh. Well, thanks for listening, felt good to get that off my chest.

Your grief at your husband's death may or may not be sincere but if you just pretended to engage in sex merely as an accommodation and for the sole purpose of child bearing made your marraige a charade. If your husband was aware of your feelings that is one thing. However, if he was not it makes you less the loving wife you purport yourself to be and more the hypocrite. <br />
I fear you will feel that this a rebuke and judgemental and that may be true to some degree but your coming here to make a pronouncement of your life as being the norm and expecting others here to accept it as such is ludicrous.

Wow! I missed this post initially! If I had any sense I'd go straight on past it now . . . !<br />
Queenv, your marriage appears to have been a happy one and you have my sympathy at the tragic early loss of your husband.<br />
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I am interested to know if your husband ever knew that you really weren't into sex very much and that you only had sex to please him. I ask because this is very important aspect that many who are not interested in sex do not ever realise is missing . . . <br />
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I'll explain what I mean. I am not interested in mountain climbing. Nor am I more than mildly interested in Scottish Country dancing. And I could not care less if I never ate another artichoke. And I would actually prefer to never eat another Brussel Sprout.<br />
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And I can CHOOSE to avoid these things or to not take part, because my choices affect only ME! My partner likes Brussel Sprouts. I cook them for him, and I have peas instead . . . . <br />
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But SEX is another matter. If I choose to not have sex, it does NOT only affect me. It affects the person I gave myself to in marriage. I'm deciding for him (or her) that he (or she) may never have sex again. Does that not strike you as unfair?<br />
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Now you are not very interested in sex and can live without it. At the risk of offending you, I suggest you have NO real idea of the true depth of a sexually intimate relationship. What we on this forum miss is NOT just the mechanics of sex, but the deep and soul connecting experience that genuinely great sex provides. <br />
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If you participated in sex to keep your husband happy, you deserve recognition for being a good wife. But it seems likely you never experienced the depth of connection or the genuine pleasure and intense intimacy that can be the gift shared by two people equally "into" sex with each other.<br />
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As such, it seems to me that you cannot understand us because you have NO idea what we are talking about. You cannot imagine what we are missing because you have never experienced it to miss. . . . <br />
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This is why I ask you about your husband. Did he ever voice any concern about your lack of enthusiasm? Was he ever disappointed that you were not "into" sex? Or was he just like you?<br />
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There is nothing "wrong" with being only slightly interested in sex - or not interested in sex - PROVIDING your partner feels the same way. Sadly, people such as you may never know what they are missing. . . . <br />
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The essential difference between you and the rest of us here is that you have no understanding of what we are talking about. And if you DO understand, you cannot relate to it. It would be like me listening to avid mountain climbers who are trying to convince me to join them in their assault on Mt Everest. I could hear about it. I could try and understand that THEY thought it was a great idea. But I could never understand really why anyone would acually WANT to do it, or DREAM about it, or YEARN for it . . . ,.<br />
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Now I have NO right to tell mountain climbers that they are risk taking idiots because I don't share their inspiration. (I might even believe this to be true!) But I don't have any right to try and get others to "do as I do" - and not climb mountains.<br />
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The same applies to you. If you are happy as you are (and it seems you are) then that is FINE! But you have no right to tell others how they should - or should not - live their lives.

I sort of wonder -

Where do some get the idea that what is complained about here is "just sex". You see if you use that phrase it rather instantly brands you as a member/possible member of some forums her that have to do with persons that dislike sex...or feel it is unimportant. To others ..."It's just water...or...."it's just air" seem nearly as ridiculous a statement to those that crave a touch, a moment where we do not feel as lonely as she does lying next to our still breathing spouse. For some here the intimacy loss was followed into a sort of grave, bu the love that they thought they had for said spouse. And for those that had a messy divorce - they are equally widow/widower from that result.

I have lost loved one's - I have come as close as anyone here to losing my spouse. I really feel for the OP that she has lost her's - my condolences will not really help her...........

.............But then neither did her (perhaps unintended) implication that those who feel real pain and have suffered a real loss of a relationship - that may not be recoverable - are less than admirable for feeling that way.

SO -

Dear OP -

Let me first say that when speaking verbally I am no where near as clear, and skilled in the use of language as I am here. If I am emotionally involved and that felt is deeply felt - I am even perhaps totally useless at expressing what I feel by speaking. I touch - when it is deeply felt. If it is deep anger I yell and must move about in order to speak at all. If it is deep love and affection - I stroke...I kiss....I hold ....and if it is extraordinary I express that by sexual touch.

By deciding - unilaterally and without discussion - that we are "passed it" my wife has made it impossible for me to express some things to her....she has not made it impossible to express those things to others...but the definitions of the marriage contract forbid such from happening. I have had part of my personality -most close to my heart - denied expression - is this not at least a severely hurtful situation to be placed in. To be sure it is not as permanent as your loss... but it is a loss....and while you can stop and know that your husband is gone...our spouses remain....just completely as out of touch...but tantalizingly close they lie in the same bed with us. As if we are forced to live next to someone that is very much gone like your husband (except they are now like a brother/sister or a room-mate) - save that even though it is perfectly fine for them to be resurrected from this "gone by choice"...they simply are fine with staying as they are.

If my wife has chosen to remove from me that which allows me to say I love you and to receive that in return at anything more deep than that I might feel for a very close friend....and that remains that way for the rest of my life....then not only am I lonely in many ways like you are....but I cannot even seek that from someone that might be willing to give it to me.

I'm sorry it is like this for you.....

I'm very sorry for your loss. It's difficult to see any semblence of love in some of these posts. Most people are asleep...... for those few awake, are in a constant state of amazement.

The fact that you really had no particular interest in sex to begin with doesn't give you a right to judge people who find it to be an important part of their marriages.

Oh yeah! And what's more-- a BIG part of this forum is about encouraging others to make choices...difficult choices, to be sure, but CHOOSING for oneself, and not allowing inertia and familiarity to hold the reigns....So therefore, in the spirit of this forum, I would encourage you to go FIND a man you want to be with, instead of bemoaning the fact that you have been a widow for a LOOONG freaking time...I'd say good luck, but I am guessing from your writing there is a REASON you have been manless for so long...

Oh, here we go with "there's a reason you have been manless for so long yada yada yada" again.

First of all, I have not been "manless". I haven't remarried. That doesn't mean I've been manless. I've had a long term relationship that actually is still at this time on again and off again, and I've had various other short term flings.

The reason I haven't remarried is that I have not met a man for whom I can feel anything close to what I felt for my husband. And if and when I ever had another marriage, although I wouldn't expect the relationship to be exactly the same, I would want to have the same level of love for my new husband that I had for my late husband, and feel the same sort of "click" and the same sort of connection. It hasn't happened. And one reason it hasn't happened is that the pool of men available to me is not as large as it is for younger women, and there may be other reasons, but I don't know what they are. But I always had the feeling, all of my life, that for me, meeting the right man was a once in a lifetime event, and it so happened that it occurred early in my life.

Also, after I was widowed young, it took several years to get back on my feet emotionally, years during which it would not have been right to start a relationship, and those were some years lost, but it was inevitable. Widowed at thirty-seven, but not emotionally ready for any relationship until forty-two. I'm guessing people come out of divorces ready and able, but it can be very different when you're widowed.

Okay, you stirred up a hornets nest you probably didn't expect to sting you... (don't really get that, but anyway...)<br />
We're all sorry you lost your spouse to death. Kay?<br />
WE have all also lost our spouses...mena nd women we promised to love til death do us part, just like you. Only our spouses are still here, and CLAIM to love us, but won't SHOW it. The death of a marriage is just as, if not MORE painful, than the death of a spouse. I get it-he died and you miss him and your relationship. Well guess what? For most of us? Nobody died, we don't get the public "oh you poor thing" and we suffer and grieve in silence, because the one WE love lives in our GD house and expects us to carry on as if everything is peaches, but there is ROT at the center...Screw you for your self-righteous attitude...<br />
Oh, and BTW, the offer to have any of us send our screwed-up husbands your way? The epitome of crass...

Geez, does nobody have a sense of humor? Can nobody recognize an obvious joke?

But there's a saying: "There's what he said, there's what she said, and then there's the truth." What I mean is, for a good portion of the people here, there is a reason that their spouses won't have sex with them. That reason is THEM. But they don't see that, so they come on here heaping all of the blame on their spouse.

In fact, I know someone like that. Married couple. Husband complained that wife wouldn't have sex with him. He divorced her. The lack of sex was not the only reason they got divorced, but get divorced they did. She got a boyfriend and is going like gangbusters.

Obviously, there were reasons she wouldn't have sex with her husband, reasons that don't exist with her boyfriend.

So, *if* it hadn't been a joke, and if I really received in the mail all of the "screwed up" husbands that the wives here are complaining about, I bet at least half of them wouldn't be screwed up anymore, once they got rid of their wives.

Thank you for your opinion, as it is mine as well. Sex does not define Love, And I am sorry that you lost someone you truly loved, as that is unfair.<br />
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I am currently in a relationship 10 years. I am committed to that relationship because I told someone that I loved them. Love does not leave, when it doesn't get what it wants, love endures all. She is post menopausal, and I am well, "More estrogen then testosterone" driven (I know it's confusing me too). Our relationship is ba<x>sed on a love that has evolved from hot imaginative sex, to companionship, friendship and commitment. All wonderful things and in actuality a better way as it allows each of us to participate in life rather then pursue a personal need. I think it is just the natural order of things. And the woman I desire to be, accepts that!

Thanks for understanding. You're so right about friendship and companionship. I know that one of the reasons that my husband and I had such a good marriage is that we considered each other our best friends---and when I first met him, I had a feeling of friendship towards him that gradually evolved into love. I know that that friendship would definitely have survived a lack of sex.

Queenv60 I am a matchmaker. I'll offer my services to find you a man.Time for you to find a good man and have some good sex. It will do you good I promise.

I agree its more that the sex, every one is greeving loss. support each other.

you keep stating your "wish' to "make us think". <br />
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You've stated this intention time and again, even after each and everyone of us have told you your experience doesnt apply, and that you are only bringing hurt to those of us in this group byBRAGGING and SHAMING. <br />
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You lack basic human empathy, and everyone here can see your true intention. You are a very sick old woman. <br />
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I know I speak for the entire iliasm community when I say I hope you get whats coming to you, because contrary to your selfrighteous belief, you have obviously not suffered enough in this life. Loss of a spouse does NOTgive you license to troll.

I've said several times that if there are people here whose main complaint really is being in a relationship in which their spouse is distant, not loving, not supportive, and/or emotionally abusive, then my comments do not apply to them. I've stated several times that my comments apply only to those who have spouses who are loving and supportive but just happen to no longer feel sexual. If that's not clear to you by now, then I don't know when it will be. If you're so secure in the fact that you have a right to feel the way that you feel, then this shouldn't bother you so much.

Yeah, I wanted to make people think. And some won't think at all, and most will probably think for a minute and decide that none of this applies to them, and maybe some, some who may not want to respond, will think and realize something that they didn't before. So hang me, because obviously, wanting to make people think is a capital offense.

What shaming have I done? Person after person has come on to say that their marriages are bad all around, and I haven't argued with them. What bragging have I done? I'm really sorry that some people interpret speaking of a good marriage that ended too soon as "bragging".

By the way, I'm officially classified as middle-aged, not old. If I'm old, then middle-aged for you will be next year.

queen said...>Ha, I "liked" this by accident. You really only have two likes so far. <br />
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gypsy said..> why are you making this into a popuarity contest?

You deleted your comment, I think, but I saw it. I was going to make the point that you don't know what all marriages are like any more than I do. The odds are great that along with the marriages in which a lack of sex is indicative of an emotional withdrawal, there are also marriages in which it is not, and the latter group is the one I was aiming my remarks at, without realizing that I would reach so many in the former group.<br />
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Yes, true, I have all the time in the world, no doubt. Sucks to be unemployed. Sucks to lose a well-paying job at which I had performed very well for four years, due to the incredible stupidity of a housemate. At least, I got unemployment, because there was no evidence provided of any work-related wrongdoing. That felt good.

If you are referring to the comment I made and deleted soon after, I decided that my comment was not going to be of any help to anyone.

Even though we can empathise and/or sympathise with others we are only able to live our own lives. Most people do seem to have bad stuff happen in their lives, different stuff from others, but bad all the same. It is not what bad stuff happens to us it is how we react to it that I believe is the important thing. Victim or Victor. It doesn't mean we have to like what we have to go through.

No, I was speaking to BlueSpruce.

*Troll*<br />
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In search of drama, and with all the time in the world to dredge it up.

I see your comparison - and there's a million other scenarios you can do this with. However, neither negates the pain of the other. What you have experienced is indeed painful, and we have not experienced that - at the same time what we have is painful in a way that you are not accustomed to. Sometimes we do "vent" about how horrible it is to want sex so much and have no outlet (particularly for those of us who choose NOT to stray). If you notice, most of it is the lack of intimacy - physical, emotional, spiritual, etc. It is hard to live with someone who used to (or ought to want) to meet your needs and now for whatever reason does not. It's really not just about the sex and if blow the lid off the box, we are in many ways experience the same grief - lack of any real intimacy where there used to be some.

This bit of your 'reply' comment rang out to me - "And if there is anyone out there who has a loving, emotionally supportive spouse who just happens not to want to have sex, I still hope that my story will make them stop and think and appreciate"<br />
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Fair enough. I can dig it.<br />
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Point is, that your marital life was cruelly cut short, so you don't KNOW what might have been to come. You did not have any opportunity to see how you would re-act to the firestorm of a dysfunctional situation with the absence of sexual ex<x>pression as a prime symptom. That was not to be a part of your experience.<br />
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You might have handled it brilliantly. And, you might not.<br />
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I would not presume to know how you feel about the untimely loss of a spouse. I "think" I'd probably go ok with it - eventually. But I don't "know". <br />
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I am sorry for your loss. I can feel sympathy for you, but not empathy, because I haven't been there.<br />
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And YOU ain't been in the situation covered in this group.<br />
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Tread your own path.

Your situation is different from most here. Its unfortunate that you lost your husband, my sympathises. I understand you saying you would gladly trade sex just to have him back alive.<br />
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You quoted that you never cared much for sex but did it to keep him happy. Bingo you loved him and wanted to please him.<br />
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What you must ask yourself how would he have felt had you cut him off and not pleased him.<br />
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Most here are stuck with a partner that does not love them and does not want to please them so there feelings of hurt and wanting to leave are valid.<br />
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Stay Strong & Good Luck

You make a reasonable point about the name of this group.queenv60. It certainly does not accurately reflect the full content here.<br />
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I can well understand someone googling "sexless marriage" and ending up here. I can well understand such person having a bit of a read.<br />
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What is a bit hard to understand is what on earth prompted you to post this disrespectful piece. What were you hoping to achieve ?<br />
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Tread your own path.

.....If this EP group would have been called anything else, we would not be here. I sure as heck would have never found this place, grateful I did. Now I know I'm not the only one who's bat **** crazy.

Okay, I am now going to state what I was hoping to achieve.

I'd read several stories here by people who were complaining about the lack of sex in their marriages. That's all they addressed---the lack of sex. They didn't complain of lack of love, or lack of affection, or lack of anything else. Just sex.

No doubt there were stories here by people who stated that it wasn't *just* the lack of sex they were complaining about, but I didn't see them.

And I got to thinking about my late husband and our relationship, and I realized, looking back, that of all the things I miss about him, sex was last on the list.

And I remembered him lying dead in his coffin, dead after a one-week illness that was misdiagnosed as flu, dead at the age of thirty-nine, never living to see his daughter grow older than sixteen or his son grow older than eleven. I remember how I went home after his funeral, and kept expecting the phone to ring, for him to call while on one of his business trips.

And I remembered the conversations we had, the way he could make me laugh the way that nobody else could, the way that I could make him laugh the way that nobody else could, the little "in-jokes", the way we would say that he had called just because he wanted to hear my voice....just the way that my personality and his clicked in a way that my personality has clicked with nobody else's, my entire life, and how I lost a part of my personhood when he died, a part that I can never get back. All those things that have nothing to do with sex.

And I thought of how happy I'd be if God said to me, "You can have him back, you can live the thirty further years with him that you thought you would have, but just one thing, he won't be able to have sex". And I thought of how happy, how ecstatic I would be if such a thing was possible. I thought of how I'd tell my husband, "Darling, I'm so happy to have you back. I couldn't care less that you can't have sex."

And some people are saying they're going to walk out because they can't have sex.

So maybe you can see where I'm coming from. I still say that nobody is complaining about lack of sex, per se, they are complaining about lack of love and emotional intimacy and the lack of sex is just a symptom, but the stories that I read that prompted me to make my post did not indicate that.

And if there is anyone out there who has a loving, emotionally supportive spouse who just happens not to want to have sex, I still hope that my story will make them stop and think and appreciate.

That's because this is a board about SEXLESSNESS!

Damn, did Destiny get a computer and stop posting on her mobile or what!?

I'm really moved by your post - it brought tears to my eyes. You sound as if you had a wonderful marriage, full of intimacy and sharing and fun, and I am so sorry for your loss. I do think that most posters here would yearn for the closeness you had, and perhaps even for the memory of the closeness that you had. Most people (I believe) who come here are in unhappy marriages, where the intimacy and hence the physical and sexual closeness has become lost over the years or where it never existed at all. But your post has certainly made me think hard, as in some of our cases I do think that if the love and emotional support are there then it is possible to retrieve the marriage with commitment and work. Sex alone is not enough - but sex as an expression of love and intimacy is. I hope one day you may find this again, as you can clearly identify the 'real thing'.

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You stupid ******' weirdo. <br />
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I don't give two ***** that you lost your husband. If you weren't such a condescending busy-body with your nose turned up so high you have a crick in your neck, you might have landed another husband after the first one croaked. <br />
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Too bad you're too much of a frigid spinster to attract another one. You must be bored. Your crusade is asinine. **** off.

Damn, I "liked" by accident again!

If you are a woman age forty and above, believe me, you don't have to be a "frigid spinster" to be unable to find a decent man. There are many attractive, wonderful women out there of that age who can't find one. There are several reasons for that. One is that there are more women of that age group than there are men, due to the fact that women outlive men. There are 106 boys born for every 100 girls, but after age 23, women outnumber men, due to the fact that men are more likely to die young. Also, older men who do happen to become single can get younger women, and if they can, most of them will. And when they get divorced or become widowed, they tend not to stay single for very long. It's a cruel world of numbers for older, single women.

My mother and my father-in-law died within forty-eight hours of each other. My mother-in-law was fifty-three at that time and my father was fifty-two. A year later, my father remarried to a woman who was thirteen years younger than he. My mother-in-law is now eighty-three and she has never remarried. That's typical.

Yes, I'm bored right now, but that's because I'm unemployed, not because I'm widowed. You can look up my other story to see how I became unemployed. I expect that to change, soon.

I forgive you for the incredibly crude language you used to refer to the death of a fine man. If you're half the person he was, then you're very admirable.

I'm happy for you. You were lucky, or maybe you just have "something" that most women don't. That doesn't change the odds for the rest of us.

I am finding quality men by the dozens...must have something to do with the fact that I am not bitter, angry, or looking to "replace" someone. Try being comfortable with yourself, maybe...oh yeah, you aren't !!! Sorry.

I had a diamond. Now I don't want to settle for a piece of glass that came out of a Cracker Jack box. Maybe the reason I haven't found someone else is that what I had was so wonderful, that by comparison, what seems good enough for other people isn't good enough for me.

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Queenv60- I am sorry for your loss so many years ago, it had to be terrible to lose a spouse you were so close to at such a young age.<br />
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A couple of points of consideration for you:<br />
*Part of my wife is dead. The part I need desperately, I cannot have, although she is there by my side, she is not there.<br />
*I AM complaining about lack of sex.<br />
*You have been a widow for 14 years by your own account. What is tragic to me is that you have not finished the grieving process, and moved on with your life. While you can never replace your deceased husband, there are hundreds of thousands of men that would love to have a life partner, would treat you well, and yet you would rather complain than take your life back and have the relationship you desire. <br />
You, my dear, are unencumbered by anything that would stop you from finding the happiness you are missing. We are encumbered by relationships that many of us desperately want to salvage, but don't know how. We are here trying to figure that out.<br />
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Please spend your time wisely, look for that man you seem to want, and if you cannot get through the grieving process, get help with that. You can take control of your life and your future, if you so choose.<br />
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I wish you well.<br />
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DB, this is wise, eloquent, and extremely compassionate. You're a treasure!

Nitwitty, Thank you, you're so kind!


Queenv, I really don't understand you, why don't you go join the group my husband beats me up, and tell "them" how lucky they are that at least their husband isn't dead.<br />
WTF, I didn't join the "I hate my kids" group so that I can criticize all those poor mothers who feel that way, I could say "be lucky your child is healthy and alive" and what not, but I don't because I don't have a chip on my shoulder.<br />
You have no right to say anything here, just because you are a widow, doesn't mean I have to like my life and appreciate a man that wants nothing to do with me.<br />
I'm sure many members here would rather have a dead spouse because you know what we all feel like widows anyways.

I wouldn't tell anyone who is being abused by their spouse that they are luckier than they would be if their spouse had died.

But I sure as hell WOULD tell any parent who says, "I hate my kids" that they're lucky they have healthy children. I've taken a look at some of the stories in that group, and let me tell you, those people make me SICK. I almost commented on a couple of them, but decided not to when I realized how old the posts were. Don't get me started on THEM. "Ooohh waaa waaaa, my four-year-old is UNREASONABLE". Oh, really? So you thought before you had a child that children were REASONABLE? Oh, what a nasty surprise. You've given me a good idea, I will join that group to give them a piece of my mind.

You know, though, of course, nothing I say means you have to like your life. Nothing I say means that you have to appreciate anyone. I just wanted to present an opposing point of view, because, while I'm sure there are people in this group who truly have marriages that are emotional voids, I also feel that there are some who just don't appreciate what they have. So if you happen to read what I say and it doesn't apply to you, then fine, and if some read what I have to say, and it makes them stop and think and maybe realize some things they hadn't before, then that's great, and nobody is forced to do anything.

....Thank you WFA I din't want to "get started".

I'm trying to figure out why this cretin has me so riled up.<br />
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I have lost 4 good friends in 3 years, each of whom left behind very young widows/widowers. Each died of cancer - one within a year; one after a decade long battle with brain cancer. <br />
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And I know within my heart of heart that not a ONE of these widows, nor their spouses would they be alive, would be as judgmental and cruel as this person is when hearing of our predicament. Each of my friends that I know chose wisely in their spouses and did not suffer a sexless predicament - they are open minded individuals and I have heard them express their love and affection for their spouses, especially in how they reacted to the illnesses. <br />
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This person, and I use that term loosely, feels that because she lost someone at a young age she is free to JUDGE the rest of us, because NOONE has suffered as SHE has. <br />
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Go away and troll somewhere else.

....Me too, I keep coming back I'm seeing red LOL, like we are so shallow to b!tch about sex, why do all these people come here?

People react differently to tragedy and grief. Just because your friends did not react the way that I do doesn't make my reaction less valid than theirs.

You can have my husband. He's relatively tidy. He does want sex, but only just a few times a year. It's not very good. He often likes cuddles and is easily pleased by a home cooked meal. He won't thank you or clear the table though and will 'help you out' with many suggestions for 'improvements' on the meal you've made. If he doesn't want sex and you do - watch out - he'll push you away with a noise of disgust.<br />
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He's also lazy, selfish, not good out in company, intensely critical and will take out his social anxieties on you. He also values Dungeons and Dragons more than family time. Still you can have him with my blessing, especially if you encourage him to take an active role in his son's life after he lives with you. <br />
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PM me if you're interested.

Why give him away? eBay!

I know a woman who broke the chain, and then the IRS audited her and told her that she owed them 100,000 dollars, and then she found a dead body in her car.

I have (over?) heard close (widowed) friends in my parents' generation say to each other that dying in an instant of a massive heart attack is so much more blessed than years of surgery and chemotherapy. We can all identify with that statement. And yet, when couples and marriages are rotting away from the inside from some cancer of the relationship, they get no empathy from marriages that died clean and easy. Such is human nature.

Ladies, take note!!!!!! Ocean, send this lady your husband, you have a firm offer. QueenNV, what are you willing to offer in exchange for these husbands? Any specific feature you are looking for? We have depressed and unmotivated men, we have alcoholics, drug addicts, **** addicts, asexuals, deadbeats, and a host of personality disorders that can be bundled with the husband. <br />
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What year model are you looking for?<br />
<br />

...Filter I think she has cookies for us.

...This person "alien" is actually hoping we send her our husbands, she doesn't realize that it's not that easy, they don't go away up on request, maybe she can be a live in "playdate" while we go ****! LOL

At first I thought, "Wooo! Finally I can get rid of my husband! But then I realized what lunatic she is, and I certainly wouldn't want to saddle even my husband with such a dumbass.

Year model.....I'd say anywhere from a 1950 to a 1970. That would put the age range from 42 to 62, which is about right. I could go for a depressed and unmotivated man, definitely an asexual man. But not an alcoholic or drug addict. Not sure what **** addict is. I'm willing to offer in exchange my love, affection, devotion, and understanding. And there will be no nagging. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

Well, if you consider a college graduate who received a Letter of Commendation for her performance on the SAT a dumbass, consider away! And you have to admit that I express myself in writing much better than do most of the people who frequent the internet.

Obviously, when I say "Send me your husband", it's a joke. But it is a joke that I hope would instigate some serious thought in those who read it.

Your XH sounds pretty good to me. The only thing I'd object to is the not drinking, because a man who doesn't drink has always seemed just a little wimpy to me, but I can certainly overlook that. Does he work at an electronics firm? Is that the only way I'd meet him?

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I am happy for you, in a way. Sounds like you had a happy marriage, and not only were you happy, but you were happy to make your husband happy. Most of us have spouses who do not care if we are happy. I mean no disrespect when I say this - but realize that, if your husband were alive, and you refused to have sex with him ever again, he would cheat, leave, or go stark raving mad. <br />
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It pains me just as it does you to see people so willing to throw away their marriages - but the people doing the throwing are not usually the ones writing here. The spouses who will not engage, will not express physical love, who detach and get distant...those are the ones throwing away their marriage. Marriage is a commitment to partner and to make each other happy. Refusers instead focus on degrading their spouse's basic human needs. To some (you perhaps), it is 'just sex.' To me and many others, that is like calling a meal 'just food.' Yes, it is just sex. But that is so important that your soul will die without it. <br />
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I'm sure you would give anything to have your husband back. I too, would give anything to have my wife back, my wife - not the loveless creature who was left behind after cancer took away her soul.

What I've come to realize from reading these responses is that people aren't really complaining about the lack of sex. Not really. They are complaining about the lack of affection, and emotional closeness. Lack of sex is just a symptom of that. I think most of them would be totally understanding if their spouses couldn't have sex because of a physical problem, as long as they remained loving and supportive and close. So this entire group and its name are misleading, I think. It gives the impression, as it did to me, that the group is full of people who put sex above all else and are rejecting loving spouses only because there's no sex. I suggest eliminating this group and starting another one with a different name---like "I have an emotionally absent spouse"---because the whole thing is just so misleading and inaccurate.

Ah, I understand your issue then. Rejecting a loving spouse due to lack of sex would not make sense. Trouble is, it is mostly spouses who don't love you that create a lack of sex. Honestly, even if I had a spouse that didn't love me, but banged me several times a week (assuming it was good banging), I would last longer than in the opposite scenario. That is because sex makes me feel loved.

But that's just it, Queenv60: It is misleading only to you because you are not in the situation, therefore have not been through the experience that would lead you to understand.

If you read through the stories in this group, you will find that the vast, vast majority are indeed about the lack of affection and connection, one symptom of which is lack of sex: For those of us who 'get it', there is no need to rename or create another group.

If it ain't broke, there's no need to fix it.

....I noticed all the flaws in my marriage after the lack of sex opened my eyes, so no The title to this group is appropriate.

This is why you should look (at stories and people)before you leap (into commenting on something you don't understand).

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Just one day of ecstatic love, and then death<br />
Is preferable to a thousand years of loveless life<br />
--- Crude translation from an Urdu poem

But....I'm not saying I'd want a loveless life. I'd want someone who loved me, and whom I loved. I think it's possible to have love without sex, just as it's possible to have sex without love.

Then you really have missed the point of all of our stories...

No, I haven't, as indicated by me response below. What I think now is that it would be beneficial to everyone to have a group about emotionally absent spouses, instead of focusing on the lack of sex. That's just a symptom.

It is and it isn't. Sex MEANS different things to different people, in different contexts. I can do easily without sex from people I don't know that well, for example. You can certainly have love without sex. I have come, over time, to love my brother in law, and he's no more related to me than my wife. But it's not a sexual attraction by any means. So, it's really about what sex *means*, generally, within the context of a primary partnership. And for many of us here, it is a potent expression of love, vulnerability, and intimacy. There may indeed be love, but just like a stereotypical spouse or parent who never says "I love you" there may be no communication of that love without that channel of expression. And there may be all kinds of reasons for the absence of that expression that have nothing to do with being emotionally absent in general. The only thing that is sure, is that sexual expression is desired and it isn't happening, for whatever reason, and that is taking a toll.

Yes, most of us love more people than our spouses, but we don't marry them. There is love (and I am NOT one of those who thinks that if there is no desire, there is no love) and there is love within the context of a marriage - a spousal partnership. There can also, obviously, be sex without love (but hopefully at least with lust or affection). The question I like to keep in mind as I assess my relationship with my primary partner is, what distinguishes her from, say, an amicable ex-spouse, or best friend? Is she my primary partner because she lives at my house with me, or because our relationship satisfies at least my minimum expectational threshold of what I expect from a spouse -- because I expect much MORE from a spouse than I would for someone else.

Nefandus, very, very well-put!

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"I wouldn't care if he just stopped wanting sex, just to have him back."<br />
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I'm sorry for your loss. It sounds like the two of you had a fulfilling marriage in many ways, and part of that marriage was a sexual relationship that met your mutual needs. YOU did not feel that you were missing sexual and intimate ex<x>pression within your marriage, and despite you not wanting it as much, you made an effort to include that as a part of your marriage anyway, because you enjoyed how happy it made your partner feel. As in, you took pleasure in your partner's pleasure. <br />
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What you don't realize, from where you sit, is how important that one thing becomes when it is taken away (and with it, often all forms of intimacy, and what they represent - where intimacy is replaced with familiarity). I'm not hungry right now because I just ate lunch. But ask me how important food is if I have not eaten in three days, and I assure you, my priorities will be rearranged.<br />
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This is a group where most of us don't have a relationship like the one you had. In our relationships, our partners take little pleasure in accomodating our need for sexual ex<x>pression or intimacy. In some cases, our needs are resented --full stop. There have been a few, where some partners resent it so much, that they phrase it as "feeling like rape". Imagine, for a moment, the kind of relationship you'd have had with your husband if you reacted with disgust or hostility to his normal needs and expectations between husband and wife? Imagine the waves that would ripple from that kind of dynamic, between you, and how that would make him feel about himself when he is around you?<br />
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For couples in the bloom of love, or people who prefer intimacy -- to have that snipped by a death, or loss, or disease---sure, I could see myself thinking the same thing you did, but it's important to note - it's not the same thing at all. Your relationship with your husband isn't the kind of experience that we are having with our partners.

This was insightful and thoughtful. Thanks.

I don't live in ANY marriage . My husband stopped touching me 4 years ago, at the age of fourty-two. I was thirty-five at that time. Now, I'm thirty-nine. I haven't cheated. I've had one flirt with a guy who treated me well but I wasn't ready for it.<br />
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It kills me to read all of the stories from people who had great marriages with lots of sex but then their spouses died. It kills me because I'd love to have a marriage and all of the love and companionship that comes with it, and I wouldn't give a hoot if my husband died young after all that sex. I had sex with my husband because it made ME happy, and I wanted children, but it was never a big deal to me. If he were ONLY still interested in me and showed me SOME consideration, I wouldn't care if he had become impotent and I wouldn't care if he just stopped wanting sex, just to have him back emotionally.<br />
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I don't understand why such a big deal is made out of death after a good life, and it hurts to see people ready to throw away what empathy they have, what they have that I dearly want, just because they had what I want but then fate took it away from them, rather than what I have, which is someone who actively destroys my life. I just don't get it! I don't get it! Any woman out there, if you are ready to leave your husband because he won't have sex with you, send him my way! He will receive a cookie, a pat on the head, and a one-way ticket to NOSEXLANDIAA and be happily accepted for what he is! Thank you.<br />
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I live for moments and postings like these.

Ha, I "liked" this by accident. You really only have two likes so far.

You're really sick to compare death with not wanting sex. That's all I have to say. Come back when you've experienced what I have.

I have experienced the death of FOUR people very close to me in the last 3 years. EACH of those people lived very full, wonderful lives and will be sorely missed. It does not ease my suffering one iota. And we ALL will die - the question is not whether we will be widowed but when, for each and every one of us - or not widowed, but lose that closest friend or relative. Your loss does not mean you can be insensitive to other's suffering.

Yes, but the "when" makes a big, big difference. I expected that I could be widowed anywhere from the age of fifty on. I expected it would most likely happen when I was in my sixties or seventies. That's to be expected. It's a HUGE difference when it happens when you're in your thirties. HUGE.

Most of us have people close to us die. My mother died when I was twenty-two and my father died two years after my husband died. So I know no other death begins to compare to the death of one's spouse, and particularly to the premature death of one's spouse.

Does my loss make me "insensitive" to others' suffering? Yes, sometimes. Don't come crying to me about your 92-year-old great-grandma dying, that's all I can say.


Most of us here are mourning, too: for the death of a marriage we ALSO expected to be able to relish until we were old, just like you expected. The painful difference is that OUR spouses are still here, but treat us like we are dead. I sometimes think it would be easier to deal with if he WERE actually "gone"... We get that you miss him. We miss our marriages, too, but we don't get to grieve openly (except for here, maybe)...get off your soapbox.

You have a chronically-ill-for-a-decade husband and you're complaining about no sex? You're self-centered and insufferable.

Oh, and I just took a look at your "Confrontation I" story. Now I know how totally self-absorbed and selfish you are.

I'm gonna quote a movie here...Lady, your husband ain't dead, he's hiding.

....Girl pass me a tissue I just spit coffee all over my screen.

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Oh dear. Insight, empathy, tolerance of alternative views, diplomacy, tact. All part of your suite of skills? Grieving is one thing but taking it out on others is, well, ugly. Sometimes private thoughts are just best kept that.

Well, I thought that by telling my story, that others might, just might, be motivated to appreciate what they have and concentrate on that instead of dwelling on what they don't have, and that way, it might be helpful to others. Evidently, thought, it just doesn't work. It must be human nature to always focus on the negative.

It's too bad you are so blinded by your own self-righteousness that you can't seem to read OUR stories - you only seem to FOCUS ON THE NEGATIVE

Okay....fine, everyone who is in a sexless marriage is miserable, and I'm not appreciating that. But I'm also not getting much appreciation for the fact that I don't have a husband due to the cruel vagaries of life, and that I'd be much happier having a sexless marriage than to be a widow. Nobody's respecting my point of view, either. It's a two way street. So c'mon ladies, send those absolute bastards who don't want sex my way! They'd be much happier with me than with you, I'll be happier, and you'll be happier. How bout it?

Madam, you are posting in a group about sexless marriages, trying to tell a bunch of people to be *grateful* that they're stuck with "cranky roommate and a coparent"(xp42) ?

Here's the difference: When you experienced the tragic loss of your husband, you lost someone you were in a loving relationship with - In other words, a true loss, for which you have my condolences - Here, this is a group in which people are posting about the fact that the 'loving' and even the 'relationship' has already left and you are bewildered at why people don't see it your way ?
With all due respect: You are posting in the *wrong* group, if you are looking for commiseration, sympathy or agreement with your particular life circumstance.

It isn't the wrong group. This was the place to reach the people I wanted to reach. What good would it do for me to make my post in the "My spouse doesn't want sex and I couldn't care less" group? Those people would already understand. And nobody would want to send her husband my way.

....So you are specifically looking for a non sex person, I had suspected that you were a refuser, find your own refuser sandwich!!! k9 is giving her away BTW

"reach people" bwaahahahaha........What a crusader!

I am flattered.

No, I am not a refuser. I literally did not ever once refuse my husband sex, during seventeen years of marriage. If I met another man who wanted sex, I'd give him sex. But I'm also saying that it would be okay with me if he didn't want sex.

Thanks. I try. But prophets are never appreciated in their own time.

On the other hand, I admire your trolling. You are rolling around in this alien attention like a dog in her own poop. We're happy to oblige you, just this once. But just watch how quickly we lose interest in your speculative comparisons.

BlueSpruce = $$$

Trying to save something that's salvageable is good. But most of us here have already lost the intimacy in our relationships, and are now trapped in a form of purgatory. It's hard to appreciate what you have when you know what you've lost.

I'm just bored and I have insomnia. That's why I'm online so much. Unemployed, children grown, I have grandchildren but they don't live with me.

I'm sure interest will be lost. It always is. I'm a member of another message board, where no thread lasts forever and most don't last for more than two days.

Just because my post pissed you and some others off, doesn't mean it's "trolling", by the way. It means it pissed you off.

WOW!! Now you consider yourself a "prophet"?? Interesting....(read: crazy)

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First, my sincere condolences on the death of your husband. I can understand your pain and your wish to have him back.<br />
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Oh my, where to start ..... I suggest you read some, or a lot, of the stories we share in this group. It's NOT about just the sex. It's about marriages that are dysfunctional on many fronts. The lack of sex is a symptom of bigger problems.<br />
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You say, "It kills me because I'd love to have a marriage and all of the love and companionship that comes with it,..." That is, in a nutshell, what we all want! Unfortunately when the sex dies off, so does companionship, affection, friendly touching, making allowances for dumb mistakes, taking a charitable view of all the things that annoy you about your spouse, holding hands, sitting close on the couch watching a movie, doing unexpected sweet things just because, kissing, hugging, compliments, back rubs, saying "I love you" --- <br />
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How much time do you have? I could go on and on.<br />
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Sex doesn't exist in isolation. It's a part of a whole host of other behaviors that, when added up, signify that our spouse doesn't love us, value us, or connect to us anymore. Would you REALLY want to live with someone who demonstrates so clearly that he/she doesn't love you? It's soul-destroying. It truly is.<br />
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It's not just about sex.

I agree totally. Sex is simply a by product of passion and the desire for connection. You might have lost your husband physically and emotionally, but we've lost our spouses emotionally. They are now simply roomates who are indifferent to our desire for passion and connection. You might just be happy with having a warm body around, that's fine. The rest of us crave something more.

If she loved me she would want sex with me. If she had any desire for companionship with me she would hold and hug me. What I've got is a cranky roommate and a coparent. I sleep next to her every night, yet I am alone.

Be careful what you wish for!<br />
This is life, and this is not for you to understand, don't be so judgmental, be lucky you are not in these shoes.<br />
While you get to mourn the loss of your husband and have closure, I still am searching for the body, and wonder where he went everyday.<br />
Be well.

"I am still searching for the body" -- wow.

...Sorry was that too much?

Encapsulates the sentiment very well. When the person is corporeally present but absent otherwise, or demonstrates behavior that indicates he or she is not the person you thought he was, then it does feel like your partner - the person you married --is lost somewhere. Might come back, might not.