No Change

Been going to counseling . She won't go so it is my time to work out my issues. I guess I don't have issues but it is my time to talk . No changes and not sure how much longer I am going to stay married. I just don't know how I can afford a Cali divorce .

Marriage counseling is not going to change anything. If she agrees to it, it will just be to get you off her back about sex for a while. This will never change no matter what you do. Hope is your enemy.

Congratulations! You realize that you are NOT happy with the way things are. You (and everybody else) are right to feel the way you feel ...about sex, or any thing else. We need to function as best we can within our belief system. I lived through a marriage that sounds much like what you described. My wife grew less and less interested in me and our children. Sexual interaction between me and her had dwindled to just about nothing. I found out later that she had been having sex with men other than me. I also went to a psychiatric counselor to try to sort things out in my mind. She refused to go, and was actually verbally abusive to me about the whole thing. She ended up leaving me to live with someone else. I believe it was the best thing she could have done. Even with two children 12 & 13 years old, it was a much happier home after "Mom" left. I kept the children. Mom didn't even want them! It was a tremendous shock to my whole mind/body when I realized how much of a farce our marriage had been. She even referred to it as a farce. As difficult as the divorce was, staying together was more more misery and stress than divorce. ...but everybody is different. Whatever YOU want/need/enjoy in life is what YOU need. We don't need to let someone else's values be imposed upon us. You certainly have as much right to your desires as she has to her desires. At the time, I did not believe that I should have gone outside the marriage for sex, so I just bought contraptions to try to satisfy my sexual appetite. Not sure that I would feel that way now. You have to do what you feel good about. Your counselor can help you sort that out. Find a counselor you can feel comfortable with. Emotions can run high and really seem to confuse things: that is where the counselor can help steer you in a direction that you can be most comfortable with. Remember: YOU ARE NOT WRONG. She is not wrong. You are both right, but maybe not RIGHT FOR EACH OTHER.



Relax. Let no one impose their values upon you. You have a right to your feelings, needs, desires and happiness.



You will be OK.

I agree with everybody. This is my first stand there has been varying degrees of intimacy over the 18 years. The last two have gotten really bad. I just feel I need to try to work it out. I agree that it most likely it is over. I would feel worse if I did not try first.

This story is eerily parallel to mine. My ex-wife was narcissistic and refused to accept any responsibility for her actions; her classic defence was somewhat akin to the classic alcoholic defence: "I don't have a problem.YOU have a problem." September was a pivotal month in our lives; wedding anniversary, three birthdays out of four. She went through the motions and gave me a dear john letter on October 1 and a slip of paper with her new address, which is a townhouse. You can't just buy a townhouse off the shelf, so this was planned well in advance.



If she said "go for it" when you suggested counselling, she is completely disengaged. For whatever it's worth, my suggestion is to spend some time thinking about the last time that you were really happy, compare that to where you are now, and put some thought into the reasons for the change.

Taken into context with your other stories it appears that your wife's position is firmly entrenched.



Yours, however is not.



Use the counselling to help YOU. Make this journey about YOU.



That may mean, as you expand mentally and your consciousness is raised - that the probability that you will leave your entrenched wife behind grows larger by the day.



You will become acutely aware of how irrelevent she has made herself to your life by refusing to participate in it.



The probability that you will want to take concrete steps to improve the overall quality of your life will increase with each passing day.



Be prepared for changes. They are coming.

Good for you. While she is content with herself and how things are, you are trying to improve yourself. I agree with Bazzar's comment in that if you are going to counseling in hopes of improving the marriage, you definitely are wasting your time. You can't make her change or want to do something she doesn't want to do.All you can control are your actions and reactions to it. Both of you have to want to fix it and make it work. She is refusing to go to counseling, which should give you your answer right there.



"She stated that she did not know I was keeping track in my book."

Ummm..it's hard NOT to keep tabs when the number of times you have had sex is ONE in the past year. I mean, damn.



How annoying it is to read about how the people (this group calls them 'refusers') try to turn it around and blame you, like you're the one with the problem for wanting sex. You are the pervert.

To that, I would tell them they have a problem too - it's called being an uptight prude.

There is no law against "hoping" but it is a real thief of time, and a real diversion against doing something more productive.



If your motive in counselling is seeking an improvement of the marriage, you are ******* into the wind. If it is for you to explore the true state of your marriage, then it probably has some value.



Tread your own path.

Well, by now you do have a one-track mind. Ordinarily it would be valid to point out that is a counter-productive approach. However, in reality it is an irrelevance. She is merely baldly stating the obvious basically to fend you off. Translate it to: "P*ss off because you ain't getting any, ever, whatever the reason, valid or otherwise". Saying there is nothing wrong is wrong because it is patently not the truth, the actualité.



Go to counselling if you feel it is right, useful, for the hopeful benefit of understanding your own behaviour and thinking but it ain't going to change a single thing on the ground, not a jot. She can't even be bothered to make the usual excuses like she is too tired or that she has lost her libido for reasons she can't identify. She just isn't into you anymore, if she ever was.



Did you travel for work when you first me? I hate to suggest it but if you did it is possible that you were selected for that reason. It would be unusual but I am sure not unheard of.



If she mentally envisages you walking through the door after being on the road for a while saying "Honey! I'm home! Get your knickers off!" then she could simply tell you that, even needs to tell you that, but instead she tells you there is nothing wrong. That is stupid brinkmanship but it is what many others here effectively describe even if the practical circumstances draw a somewhat different picture.



Maybe as and when you walk out the door she will say she never realised you were that unhappy or maybe she will just shrug her shoulders. Maybe she has already consulted her attorney and is just waiting for you to pick her moment for her.

Not only are you wasting money, you're wasting time - far more valuable in my book.



Her reaction and kick-backs tell you everything you need to know. Keeping track - gah! Classic refuser playbook, reality denial.

The problem is she really does not see the problem.... It is your problem and it is up to you to change... So you will not change her or her attitude... you can either accept or go... Good luck!

She's at the stage where she just doesn't take you seriously. You've put up with it for this long with her delaying tactics. She's still putting it back on you.



Remember, you're right. She's wrong. It isn't ok to have sex once in six months where both partners are healthy and one of them is denying intimacy.