On The Brink---need A Reality Check

The question of "what 5 things have you done?" is a good start. This should not be a case of him simply being a problem to be solved though. You BOTH need a plan that includes accountability to each other. Remember, your relationship dynamic includes a situation where HE is unsatisfied as well. He may be inarticulate about it, or non-communicative, or simply a lost cause, but if you still hold a candle for the two of you getting out together, you both need to be in this together.



I think the most effective way to do this would be for both of you to draw up separation plans that include self work and life recovery. Once the initial crash is over, most separated or divorced people go through a period of self-discovery and revitalization - picking up old interests or new ones, building social circles and habits that break co-dependency. The latter is probably an area that you should focus on in your get well plan. Get back to being interesting individual people again, both of you.



Then put in your calendars dates every few weeks to meet and discuss what you've done. Make sure you build into your plans the notion that you each will be looking for evidence of change.

I am befuddled by the whole situation too. Have you reached the point at which you don't even long for him anymore? Have you thought of him as a sort of a eunuch? (I know this is a rude thought, it's just that I have it.)

A couple things strike me, with the conversation you had, which is familiar to me.



1. Desire is not a quality that can be approached directly. If your expectation is to demand him to simply desire you (he might succeed in having sex with you, but if he doesn't desire you, the quality and eventually quantity of the experience will be unsatisfying), then you are doomed to fail. It's like ordering someone to find that a joke is funny, or to enjoy fish. Going at it head on isn't going to work. You have to change the entire context around it, first, to think of it in a different way --to change the conversation about it.



2. If you are working on a therapeutic separation, then you need to actually sit down together and create a plan, with tangible actions and followup --what are you BOTH doing during your time apart to reconstitute so that you are ABLE to change the dynamic of the relationship. The idea is that you become different people in and of yourselves, rather than simply going directly to the dynamic between you. Again, indirectly. There are some helpful books that can guide you through that process "Getting Back Together" is ironically about separation. You can talk with a counsellor about separation as well - a third party mediator would be helpful in providing an external guide in this case, and keeping both of you on target.



Our counsellor explained that in his experience, partners who "temporarily split" without any tangible separation plan, stay split. It's just a separation and it eventually becomes habit. If you truly intend on doing a therapeutic separation, then you are going to have to get on a program.

Definition of "working on it" in this context would his actions demonstrating some level of improvement in the level of marital sexual expression.



In the absence of any such observable action, you can only conclude that he is just bullshitting you along in a rear guard action in a desparate attempt to buy more time whilst he thinks up a 'get out of jail free' card - like the old "a priest touched me up when I was a kiddie' card or similar.



Putting him in a position where he is free to "work on it" at his own pace in his own way, at a locality many hours distant from you has a lot going for it - for you.



Tread your own path.

Frankly, I didn't have time to read all the comments/responses. But assuming that you're still attracted to him and truly want to have sex with HIM, there is an answer: that little blue pill (the name of which is, apparently, not allowed in this forum). Admittedly, they're not cheap (they're $20 per pill and that's WITH my insurance plan) so I buy them from India. The generic version works, believe me. But, as a test, his urologist will give him a free sample. You and he will be amazed.

Seriously, performance anxiety is a real thing. I'm 53 and while I was getting divorced, I was going out with a girl and, on occassion, I couldn't get it up. (Who knows why?!?!?!?!). She suggested that pill and it totally changed our (and my) sex life. There's NOTHING to be ashamed of. Better living through chemistry. We're lucky to have that pill ... our parents didn't.

What will it make one to understand that you cannot demand sexual intimacy or performance from one who does not wish to do so. Passion naturally subsides in working marriage over the years and often life just becomes a habit or and accommodation. Not every one can accept that or should. What you seek here , regardless of his pronouncements will never happen. Consider your relationship beyond repair and begin looking forward to fulfilling your needs in a new life elsewhere.

This of course is easy for me to say without any idea of your family dynamics but if children are involved and dependent on age divorce is not the catastrophe everyone says it is and you may well be better off away from this soul killing environment.

I do wish you well but you should reconcile yourself to the fact that this spouse you have so long been with is not going to change one bit.

Time to trot out my fave old saw:



You are not meant to end up with everyone you love. Some of those people are ****** up or simply wrong for you. Nor does love obligate you to act against your normal life instincts.



It's time to play your final trial separation ruse to get this saddo out the door one more time. A little "it's not you, it's me, we need space" should do it after a few repeat applications.



Promise to lavishly keep in touch. Of course, 'keep in touch' is a very subjective thing. If he doesn't feel it's enough, well remind him you've walked that walk yourself.



Encourage him to actively work on his many interesting problems -in a different zip code.



Zip code therapy trumps pointless, iffy psychotherapy every time -at least for your side of the equation.

Thanks so much for your responses, everyone. I really am at the breaking point! I'm so tired of excuses and smokescreens and constantly moving goalposts!! This marriage has become such a head trip. Like I said below, I asked him, "what are 5 things you've done in the past 3 months to 'work on it' besides things I've forced/asked you to do, or things we've done together?" He couldn't come up with one thing. Is there anything left to say?



I'm worth fighting for---so I am fighting for ME. My life, my future, my happiness.



His desire to avoid the "discomfort" of dealing with it is so much deeper than his desire to work on things with me. I think he has some sort of anxiety issue around sex that is so deep, it just blots out anything else. Basically, the only times he wants to have sex is when the stars align in such a way that he feels NO stress at all: on vacation, after a massage, etc. He has to be completely lulled into a state of total relaxation in order to have any desire.

it actualy looks and sounds like a deeper issue that is going on with your partner. and he's not comfortable enough to talk to you about it yet. i think you need to show him a bit of empathy and patience. till he feels comfortable enough to speak with you... trying asking him if there is anythng he want to talk about. . . and when he's ready. just listen and then listen again with your heart and dont jump all over him...

What constitutes "working on it" mean to you? What I or anyone else things matter not a jot. You will inevitably get a myriad of different responses and judgements in response to your question. Not a single one of them will satisfy you. You simply have to live by your own self-imposed standards and your husband, or soon to be ex-husband will have to live with them as well. As you have said he has reacted too little, too late. You are now rejecting him and the dynamics have done a 180 about-turn. I can see no reason why a few months apart will achieve anything magical. What exactly do you think it might achieve? Do you think he will come back better motivated in the absence of dealing with his actual issues or that you will feel any more favourable to him, have a greater sense that you have been missing something? Maybe, maybe not. Even if it was true how long do you suppose it would last? The bottom line is probably that he has issues about you that he simply won't admit to you hence the comment about "emotional dynamics". He is possibly simply not turned on by you and that probably has little to do with physical appearances. It happens often and it's tough, really.

How attracted are you to him and him to you?

My husband has been "working on it" for 21 years. He's gone to countless doctors, therapy, takes testosterone and ED drugs and .... he still has no real sex drive.



I know that he sincerely wants to want me, and it sounds as if your husband would love to suddenly actually have a sex drive...but he doesn't and he never will.



Your husband shouldn't have to "work on it" to makes himself desire you. He either does, or he doesn't.

Working on it =:



1) Genuine regret and an impressive record of making amends -not a sporadic, non-specific, oddly paralyzing desire for making amends that always seems to preclude actually making them.



2) Painful honesty, not self-pitying wailing, hair-splitting, and bait-switching (like you are already sick of). "I do desire it, I just don't act on it". Seriously, how do you not laugh this dim liar straight out of the room?



3) Hot sex, offered up often. No game-playing while he theatrically lets you know how hard he's "trying". Just get down there and lick that ***** already, you eunuch loser.



Meanwhile, let me play you back to you:



"I can't stand another month of sleeping next to this man".



"I feel (know beyond a shadow of a doubt) that he's done nothing"



"I feel (know beyond a shadow of a doubt) that he's delusional".



Don't listen to us, just listen to yourself. Then go do that guy from the other story again. Hard.



-And why not print this thread out and surprise that lying sack of **** at your next time-wasting therapy appointment?



At those prices, you should at least have a laugh.

"My feeling in life is that actions are what matter, not words."



That's all relationships, lovers, friends, in a nutshell. Uppermost.



Don't tell me you love me: show me.



Don't tell me you're my friend: *be* one.



Don't apologize: Be different.



"It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them."

- P. G. Wodehouse



Truth in action, I call it. I wish we'd all judge people not by the words they use - good and bad - but, rather, by their actions. The things they do, and don't do. All of the truth we need is right in front of us: Are we all prepared to stare directly at it?



♥

My husband didn't work on it, either, for years. We'd talk, I'd cry, he'd tell me that he knew I wasn't happy about it, I told him to stop taking so many medications, go see a doc, etc. Hardly any effort on his part. Just, "I'm sorry. We will work on it."



Until finally, I said, "**** it. He doesn't want to do anything about it, fine. I will dispatch my duties as a mother and get the kids raised, go to school to make myself employable, and I'm out!"



Well, lo and behold, NOW he's all about fixing the living **** out of our marriage. I'm not. I'm still done.

That's a great question. My H feels like he's really working on it too, but the action doesn't follow.







My current thought is he really is working on it internally. He's trying to figure out why he doesn't/can't/won't have sex with me. Of course, the problem with that is his internal processing is something I can't see or feel or touch. So it may very well be he's working on it but hasn't come up with a solution yet.







But and it's a big BUT...the bottom line is it's not enough for you. One big problem with a SM is the deleterious effect it has on our feeling of desirability. His rejection makes me feel undesired and there's no bigger libido killer than lack of desire. None of us like to beg - it makes us cranky! So regardless of all his internal work, if it doesn't produce results that make you feel safe, there is little that can change this dynamic.







I think you are right to hold your ground. The great news about life is unless it's a death, it's never final. So, you lose nothing by giving yourselves a break to see what it's like out there without the attachment to the other. You may find being friends is enough or he may find he can finally overcome his fears and come back with his desire fully in tact. Or, you may find it's a lost cause. In any case, the separation will not hurt what is already broken.

"Working on it" means saying what you want to hear to get you off his back about sex for a while. Skip the temporary separations. He is going to keep giving you nothing and then act wounded that you dumped him when he was trying.



Look, if a person has to work at it to want sex with you, there is never going to be any good sex. Separating and getting back together is not going to change that. Nothing is going to change that.