Finances And The Sexless Marriage

Sharing a story on how a refuser wants the best of both worlds......


How many out there ( and I am guessing there are many) have a spouse, who wants the benefits of a marriage financially and wants their needs met there, but on the sexual front, the relationship is defined more as room-matish relationship, and you having your physical needs met there is not an issue???


Once a marriage reaches the point where sexual intimacy has been removed from the equation by your refusing spouse,,,,,,, and your spouse has made it clear they have no desire to be with you sexually, how can they still expect you to handle the majority of finances in the same manner as you always did.,,,without it doing a number on your self esteem???

This is my case, and to be only needed in this manner only adds to already existing frustrations.

To alleviate the feeling of being used in this manner and to preserve self esteem and sanity,,,,, ,,,,,I have indicated that since we are now room mates,,,,,we need to move more in the direction of splitting financial responsibilities,,,,home mortgage,,,,,,cars,,,educational expenses for the children,you name it,,,,,,,,,,etc,,,, down the middle.


There was a time, where I handled the VAST majority,,,close to 100%,,, of the financial responsibilities ,,,,,( even though our earning potentials are equivalent),,,when our children were toddlers,,,and not in school yet,,,in order for her to be there for them and not rely on day-care,,,,etc,,,,as we both felt this was important for the 2 children.

My reward,,,,,,,,,finding out she had an affair........twice....devastating news.

Since then,,,we have stayed together,( by a miracle),,,the kids are doing great ( older now,,,,,16, 13),,,,and the financial responsibilities are shared moreso,,,but with me still handling the easily 2/3rds, if not more, of the responsibilities.

This morning, she shared with me that she feels she is handling "too much" financially,,,,,,,,and that she needs to communicate that better with me.

I always feel angst when that topic comes up: because.....

1. She has an ability to share with me that she needs to communicate better with me about things not being fair in her mind on the financial front,,,,but,

2. She has an inability to share with me any thoughts and is not interested in communicating at all about our sexless marriage or her feelings for me.

,,,this all must seem fair to her in her mind on the sexual front,,,with me sleeping on the couch,
or in the guest room, and me not even coming close to having my physical/emotional
needs met.


So, does anyone else deal with this dilemma?









This morn
deleted deleted
26-30
15 Responses Sep 18, 2012

I apologize in advance for feeding the ColorMeV troll, couldn’t help myself …

ColorMeV said: “Look guys, of COURSE I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. Who wouldn't?” To answer your question … people with a conscience do not “cake eat” at the expense of other people … normal people (those with a conscience) would call you a USER or a personality disordered individual, labels for your ilk may vary.

PTI and VB … while this thread is kick-*** entertainment, do you guys realize that you are arguing with borderline personality disorder (ColorMeV)? That is the equivalent of beating your head against the wall. Just checking, if you’re just having fun then please, carry on.

PTI … if you are staying for your kids, and I suspect you are (I can empathize) then make your cake-eater spouse pay 50%. People are either in the marriage or they aren’t; your wife is obviously not.

VB … I’ll take the bet on ColorMeV, although I will feel slightly sorry for the boy-toy when she is on the curb.

As I read through some of your posts, I can't help but thinking that you already are divorced since you are no longer together and the never ending battle over finances has already begun. Isn't it a scary prospect to fight about finances until your children are no longer dependent in a decade or so?

When people live in a SM and it is not by mutual consent, they are almost always going to have other problem areas as well. Finances, housekeeping, individual appearances, respect, household responsibilities, lack of emotional support, general kindness.
If you get finances agreed upon it may seem a little better, but there will still be an underlining problem and lack of sex and finances may be just a symptom. I would look a little deeper.

Ugh. Victim of crossed-text timing. I posted earlier, not realizing PTI had pre-posted me by two minutes. As I figured his entry had pretty much put a cap on the convo, I erased my follow-up post. NOW I find I was too late. I've got a slew of responsive posts that make no sense in the absence of that prior post. Sorry folks.

I'm debating whether to continue on the offensive/defensive here or attend to some more pressing matters here at the office. This board moves so quickly, if I wait til' I get home tonight, this will really be old news.

*sigh* I GOTTA take care of this stuff here at work. Soooo rather than disappoint my rabid, torch-bearing villagers, I will agree to think of something nice and controversial -- OR something COMPLETELY in the vein of the typical posts here, and offer it up for sport later on this evening. One exception. PTI *grin* subtle. MUST reply to yours above.

I'll be darned. I go to sleep, wake up, and miss all the fun!
Vaguest. You're a GUY?! I was too furious last nite to take the time to peep your profile. I'm glad you had fun perusing mine. I find it interesting that you prefer to ignore the screaming inequity in PTI's post and insist on making it "not about the money" when the OP himself clearly said that it now was.

PTI -- no response to the open question of whether your wife CURRENTLY makes half your income while you ask her to foot half the bills? I WILL apologize for making assumptions about the division of labor in your household. I jumped to the not unreasonable conclusion that your wife had primary childrearing responsibility based on the information provided (she worked part-time and stayed home when the children were little). I'll wager she still spends a large portion of her income on miscellaneous childcare issues (I know *I* do), but I'd have given anything for my husband to interact with our girls on the level you describe with your kids. I stand my ground that if she makes 1/2 your income, it's unreasonable for her to pay 1/2 the bills.

Vaguest - I'm not a gambler, but if I were you, I wouldn't place any bets on the likelihood of a divorce in MY household - ever. Loved your ageist, avoidance-tactic, aspersions on my choice of words ("putting out"). So progressive of you to be able to describe the act of love-making in four letters. Yep, your new wife to be is indeed, ****-ed. I used the language I did, because PTI described a passionless marriage in which he still required servicing. In that case, it's not lovemaking. I am, frankly, HORRIFIED that you would use the BIBLE as authority for female bondage. "If you're married you HAVE to ****." -- Seriously?!! No exceptions?! No party is EVER allowed to say "no?" Wow. You scare the "F" out of ME.

*cracking up* Literally. Rolling with laughter. But it's really not funny. I spend a lot of time pondering a world where people can so cavalierly twist any fact pattern to satisfy extremist positions, flatly ignoring intelligent evidence to the contrary. We agree on one thing: Married couples SHOULD have sex/make love. I just don't think they can be FORCED to. I would add that they should also respect, love, touch, hold, caress and look out for each other. Sex isn't the only thing that can be withheld in a marriage. I feel no particular obligation to have sex with a partner who doesn't respect me enough to take care of basic hygenic items, like dental cleanings -- or make me feel loved. We LIKE each other just fine ... most of the time. What works for you VB, doesn't necessarily work for all. Live & let live Dude.

ROFLMAO

CMV I'm SO glad you've rejoined the fray
"Sex isn't the only thing that can be withheld in a marriage."

It sure ain't.
Money can be withheld too.
THEN the sparks really fly!

@ VB & PTI -- *holds up one finger* Hang on a sec. Lemme take one more bite of this cake. *chomp .. . chomp* Mmmmm.... Yummy!! :) Wanna piece?? Look guys, of COURSE I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. Who wouldn't? If you HAVE some cake, why would you waste it?!! That's just dumb. You silly, silly men are missing my point. (Although PTI, you ALMOST had me there. I was nodding along, moving to your side of the equation after that nice explanation of your financial request-- but then you started calling me names. *grin* So screw it. Let's spar some more!). My POINT is: I don't really HAVE any cake. Not any more than anyone else here. Every choice has its consequence. Who WOULDN'T prefer to be in the loving arms of their one true love? A bonded family unit facing the world together?? Who WOULDN'T want to make passionate love daily to a person who thought the sun rose and set in your eyes? Boytoy or no, I don't have that. I get FLASHES of how life COULD be with my husband when I'm with boytoy. It's up for debate whether that doesn't actually make things even WORSE. So PLEASE don't attempt to lecture me on morality and/or greediness. My choices don't make my life particularly richer than anyone else's. They just make it tolerable.. For me. End of Story.

F4W - I never COULD stay away from a bracing exchange! ;-) Sometimes this place is da "shiznit!" (Vaguest, do you approve of my contemporary slang?)

I'd venture to say, Pardon that it's not ONLY women w/ that "get out of work" card in this modern world we live in today.

(Although I will admit it's probably way more prevalent.)

I'll also go out on another limb here and say for the females who are in the "Denied" category this unhappy inequality for her (happy circumstance for HIM) probably exists for their husbands more often than not.

It's good to be the King.

What the King don't know is the Queen is the most powerful piece in the game of chess.

CMV:
I had the same reaction to you this morning when I woke up and saw all the fun had gone on without me.

Made me want to stay up later. ;)

Boys, let's take a gander at what she just said:

"I get FLASHES of how life COULD be with my husband when I'm with boytoy. It's up for debate whether that doesn't actually make things even WORSE."

I'd venture to say her pain is deep (and great) too.

Just sayin'.

We're all shipwrecked in here, one way or the other. :(

Hard questions deserving answers.

I was thinking the question deserved answers from ALL of us.
"What propels you onward in this stupid hell?"

"We agree on one thing: Married couples SHOULD have sex/make love. I just don't think they can be FORCED to. I would add that they should also respect, love, touch, hold, caress and look out for each other." Then you agree with all of us here. No one thinks you (or anyone) should be forced to have sex. That misses the point. To me, that's still a dysfunctional marriage. Equally as much or more so.

Wowwwww.... *cracking up* Had fun reading through my ANCIENT posts, PTI? You are WELL AWARE this particular story had nothing to do with my boytoy. In fact, you passed up much juicier and more recent fare to select that particular entry. "Colorfully" descriptive, no?

But surely the descriptors there would have NOTHING to do with your decision to select the particular excerpt, ay?? *rolling eyes*

You've changed the game m'friend. *shrug* I don't really care -- but now YOU'll never know whether the replies of folks who've read that post above are pro-you -- or anti-me.

6 More Responses

PTI,

Is this really what you want? For some sort of balancing of scales? Or do you really want your spouse to desire you? If spouses desire physical intimacy with each other, no one is 'putting out' as compensation for anything. It is a mutual fulfillment. If someone feels they must 'put out' it already misses the whole intent and its not about seeking connection and pair bonding. For what its worth, I don't think your spouse loves the way you want to be loved. Take care.

Balancing:
I suspect it is what he wants (at this point) and I see NOTHING - NOTHING AT ALL wrong with that.

"For what its worth, I don't think your spouse loves the way you want to be loved." <-- Apparently not and if it's the cold hard look at her financial motivations in the marriage it JUST MIFGHT move him off dead center to act. I THINK he's finally found a voice of reason that will work.

It IS supposed to affect your dignity and self esteem. That way she can keep you under her thumb.

So, PTI it seems you are okay with being room mates so long as there is an equitable financial arrangement. Interesting. Also interesting is what I am interpreting as your choice to let your spouse continue to dictate how things may or may not change (if she finds someone better, you would happily walk her down the aisle and be happy for her). The only one who can do anything about your dignity and self esteem is you and you are choosing to remain in a situation where your sense of self continues to be eroded.

A supplementary question, to those who answered - "yes, that is my position".

Now you know the "why", how is that going to help you unravel this ?

Tread your own path.

the obvious thing that jumps out at me is... If they get a divorce then what is her financial situation going to look like? Depending on the jurisdiction she might not get much alimony and child support or she might get plenty. But if to avoid divorce and strengthen the marital relationship she were to engage in marital relations, she wouldn't have to worry about that financial conundrum she could find herself in if she got divorced. That's not prostitution... that's called showing your husband you love and want him.The whole "she's raising his kids" thing applies equally if they are divorced or married and yet most divorced Moms have to work even if they get child support.It seems to me that no matter what is going on, it's in the couple's best interest to have a harmonious relationship. All this "she contributes more than enough" or "she's a roommate and she doesn't split the bills equally" stuff misses the point.The greater consequence is the destruction of the constructive and loving marital relationship, which may indeed already be complete even if the two people involved refuse to call time-of-death. Yet.

The obvious thing that jumped out at me is here is a woman who - who said someone about cake? Yeah, has her cake and is eating it too. Maybe I'm jealous but maybe I'm just pragmatic enough to get that you can't have it both ways (and expect it to last forever.) Colorme, I'd have cottoned more to your viewpoint if the affair thing hadn't come out of the closet. Even if it hadn't, as a woman, I would have been wary if the "whole picture" had being presented.


We both know women like his wife (and men.) Let's not put lipstick on THIS pig.

And we both know people like him. Some of us are in his position. I suspect more of the denier population is guilty of taking (or gaining) an unfair financial advantage in their situations than are members of the denied population.

I'll allow that I could be wrong here but I don't think so.

This thing about money - I suspect if we "followed the money" clues in here (like we seem to be doing in this string!) things would get sussed out a whole lot quicker than a lot of the time these twisting-in-the-wind tales take.

Oh, another thing. When they say it's "not about the money" - they're lying. It's always about the money.

By the way, I'm still wary that the whole picture HAS been presented. Being a newcomer myself as Pardon is I struggle continuously to present the "whole picture" to a roomful of friendly "strangers" who (mostly) are sensitized to jump to my defense and bash my denier, sweet as it is to my ears to hear.

It sounds good.
It feels good.
It tastes good.

Hell, I could have my cake here and eat it too and who would know?

But then, what would be the point?

Time will tell more of Pardon's picture. It always does.

If you propose to split expenses 50/50, are you also willing to cut back on your work hours to allow her to work more?

Are you willing to split the taxi duties for the kids? Will you be dropping off to 50% of the extracurricular events or picking up from 50% of the sporting events? How about dinner...? Will you cook 3.5 dinners a week? And bathrooms... will you be scrubbing 50% of the bathrooms, doing 50% of the vacuuming?

Sex isn't the only thing that could be traded here....

(and for the record I've been in both positions, as one asking for and the one being refused as well as the bread winner and the dependent)

I'm sorry, perhaps I missed something here -- but didn't PTI say that his wife had a similar earning CAPACITY (i.e. Potential), not an equal earning ACTUALITY?? He later writes that she's now working PART TIME and the kids are 16 & 13. Are the supportive female responders to this post insane?!! It matters not that his wife is CAPABLE of earning an equal income, if the household has been run with her working part-time in order to take primary care of the children, IN NO UNIVERSE should she be expected to pay fully HALF of the household bills!!

OMG. I am so SICK of my husband whining about this. Be a frickin' MAN. You'd be paying the mortgage & bills anyway if she wasn't there. Whether or not she sleeps with you, she is STILL the mother of those two kids. She is NOT PRESENTLY EARNING a sufficient amount to split the bills 50-50! And you KNOW the kids still need her home part-time.

Only a ***** gets PAID to ****. This is basically the transaction this post (and its supporters) is advocating. If she doesn't put out, you won't pay. Unbelievable. I'm not saying you have no right to be pissed that your wife's not putting out. I have no idea what issues in your marriage have caused this. But that detail is irrelevant. What IS relevant is the fact that you each have roles to play in your family unit -- until such time as you choose to dissolve it. Your 16 & 13yr old children need a vigilant and present parent even MORE now (while under the threat of drugs, sex & peer pressure) than they did as toddlers. To ask your wife -- who evidently brings home 50% of YOUR CURRENT INCOME to pay 50% of the financial burden -- is punitive, emotionally damaging and just, plain evil.

As long as MY husband continues to demand this, I'll NEVER bed him. It's prima facie evidence of his petty, whiny, lack of manhood. I work full-time and make 2/3 his income. Our kids are in college & grad school. He may pay the mortgage, utilities & insurance, but when those kids want class advising, attention, help w/a paper, direction or $$ - they come to ME. Why? Because their dad is a whining, ignorant, idiot. No one wants to listent to an hour-long "victim" rant for a measly $50 loan. Believe me -- this guy's wife IS contributing far more than her fair share.

Rant complete. *still fuming*

Atta' boy. Get on your high horse and STAY THERE!

I'm talkin' about your indignation at being used.

Yes, I do. I am the woman. Not only am I the one who wants sex, I am ALSO the primary wage earner! Not only that, but I also HANDLE the finances, the bills, the taxes, the mortgage...come what may...(which is scary b/c I don't blaance a checkbook..EVER. Not a numbers person at all)...

My STBX has a very similar position. His withholding sex is understandable, forgivable, and just "the way he is". My disturbing his comfortable two income lifestyle is selfish, despicable and unfair.

We had the same financial arrangement as you when our kids were little. I stayed home, pinched pennies and did part time jobs because we both agreed it was how we wanted our kids to be raised; he was the primary earner. It was a 'real' marriage then, not a SM. Later I went back to school and now I earn more than he does. He feels it's unfair of me to leave him now, since he supported me then. There are so many logical holes in that position - I probably don't need to explain them to anyone here. But cool logic isnt what's driving him. He just wants things his own way with finances, same as he does with our sex life.

He made his choices, and now I'm making mine. I finally figured out that just because he makes up the rules doesn't mean that I have to keep following them.

Iloved this:

"This morning, she shared with me that she feels she is handling "too much" financially,,,,,,,,and that she needs to communicate that better with me."

Sad thing is - SHE BELIEVES IT.

In simplest terms: you are being used.

You're right to bring it up. You're also right in expecting a 50/50 split if it possible for both spouses to contribute. Sex or lack thereof shouldn't even enter into it.

Good luck on this one Pardon.

It appears it's FAR EASIER to talk abt the realities of non-sex marriages in here than to talk the reality of finances and what part they play in relationships.

I'll be watching.

Interestingly.