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Given The Choice – I Would Rather Be The Refused Than The Refuser

I have been thinking a lot lately about my personal journey – all the steps through heartache, depression, fear, worry, etc. taken in order to arrive at a place of acceptance and optimism. Acceptance of the truth that divorcing my wife of 28 years is the right thing to do. Optimism that my future is full of potential and that a joyous level of happiness is attainable. I have also concluded that I would rather be the refused spouse rather than the refuser spouse if given the choice.

You might ask why would anyone choose to be rejected, choose to have their self-esteem trampled upon daily, choose to be denied intimacy, and choose to be the refused sexually? So why? Simple….because most of the refused eventually realize that something terrible is wrong and they seek answers. They look deep within themselves and try to finds ways to improve. They wonder why. They long for something more, something much better than what they have or what they are offered. The refused have the capacity to grow. The refused can escape the confines of their situation if they choose to do so. The refused are emotional beings that crave intimacy and need another soul to share their authentic selves. On the otherhand, the refusers are generally complacent, they covet the status quo, they protect themselves (egos) at the expense of their spouse, they have limited opportunity for emotional growth, they fear deep intimacy, they do not crave anything better than what they already have, and at their very worst….they blame or punish their spouse rather than look inward for answers. I wonder if refusers have the ability to be truly authentic with another human being. Refusers seem to suffer from a fatal flaw or defect that I do not wish to have……so I would rather be the refused.

The reason I have been thinking about this now is that I’m on the eve of the first major step in my exit plan. Tomorrow I will be hiring my attorney and notifying my wife of the impending divorce filing by me. A few months ago, I never would have dreamed I could say such a thing – let alone actually do it. To any of you out there suffering a life as the refused, please know that the power for change lies within your own mind and heart – the power for change is in your own hands. The refusers do not have such power for change. We, the refused, are the strong – they, the refusers, are the weak.
Buroak Buroak 51-55, M 19 Responses Nov 4, 2012

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I relate to this post...... You explained my refuser perfectly!
I know this is an old post....but it helps, the ones' that are walking this path now. Thank you for sharing it.

"At least we know that there is something terribly is wrong......and we have the capacity to grow, and we do not fear intimacy." So true, never looked at it this way. Thank you!

Wow. Impressive! Awesome and very interesting outlook. I admire your positive as well as productive perspective. Gives hope: )

This was all so very true. <br />
<br />
As much as:<br />
<br />
1. having your self-esteem trampled everyday sucks<br />
2.suffering from the depression,<br />
3. questioning what you have done wrong or what you could do better<br />
4 and struggling to find a place of acceptance <br />
<br />
ALL SUCKS<br />
<br />
At least we know that there is something terribly is wrong......and we have the capacity to grow, and we do not fear intimacy.<br />
<br />
The refusers,,,,all are stunted emotionally and will NEVER know true happiness. <br />
<br />
Yes, I would rather be the refused as well.

Reread, and rated up again!

I really hope you've attained the joyous level of happiness that you've dreamed :)

Thank you

You have quite a way of expressing yourself. And it is enjoyable reading. I understand your concept and see your point. Although, you taking the
initiative to file the divorce kind of makes you the ultimate refuser. Good for you. I was in a relationship and the woman was not true to me. I think now that she refused to completely commit. I took too long to end it, but I finally did and I find satisfaction that I did. We take small steps but at least we are walking.

I never thought of the scenario refuser/refusee before. It makes sense though that the latter is the more preferable way to be. The cognitive dissonance will either lead to change or frustration with the status quo.

Interestingly enough, I was a refuser in my first marriage. I was also a miserable, victim-stancing, cry baby. My ex was in arrested adolescence (I still think he has the emotional maturity of a 16 yo) and his thought processes and actions drove me crazy!! The thing with him though was that he never took advantage of being the refusee - he just never grew from it.

I was the one who finally ended it cuz I didn't like myself. The birth of my daughter kick-started the whole thing. I didn't want her living in such a toxic environment. Our kids feed off our anxieties and emotions - I didn't want to raise a miserable anxious child.

So I left and over the next few years grew as a person...etc, etc...

Here's the encouraging news: after 5 years of singlehood, dating, experimenting, learning who I was, I met the best man ever! There is no refuser/refusee in our relationship, only mutual respect.

I completely agree with the theme of refusees being the growers but only if you are an emotionally intelligent person. My ex was not and continues to live in denial. Actually he just went out and found someone as "status quo" as him and more power to him. But to this day I can't believe how much I've grown as a person from the time I met him to now and how he is almost EXACTLY the same.

Adversity (being the refusee) is a good motivator for people who decide to take control of their lives and destiny. However, for people who blame external sources for their misery and do nothing about will be stuck as an emotionally clueless refusee.

Buroak - I think you are courageous and admirable for going after what you want - in my humble opinion the norms of society shouldn't stop you from constantly pursuing happiness. Society doesn't have dibs on your choices in life.

Mainstreamrenegade,

Thanks for sharing your view point from the angle of the refuser. It sounds to me like you suffered greatly too, but chose to change yourself to change your situation. Awesome results too!!!! Thanks for sharing and for your encouraging words. You have me thinking now that there are refusers out there who suffer terribly and who crave intimacy...not just refusers who want everything but the sex and intimacy. I'm glad you got out of your dysfunctional marriage and made it into such a good new relationship. That's the lesson - to never stop growing and improving. So....what are you doing "surfing" the ILIASM forum?....you should be busy, well...you know..... Thanks!

ROFL...awesome wit!

I just want to offer a kind reply.

I am a "refuser". I will go down your letter & comment in order (Have to hurry, almost time to go home!) so please excuse this for being "dry".

-I am on this site b/c I am trying to find out if there is anything else I can do to salvage my marrage to a man I have been married to for almost 3 years, exclusively with for almost 13 years, and have 3 perfect children with (11,9,2). I want to know what I can do...because it seems he doesn't really care...it's for me to fix alone...of course, he does as he pleases and gets what he wants...and I look like I have let myself go esentially, but the truth is I have been neglected and run over, and sometimes voluntarily so for the sake of my kids.

-I acknowledge that my husband's self-esteem is fed partially by sexual acceptance
-he denies me intimacy until he is ready for sex, then I get a 2-minute crappy "foot massage" and yanked off the couch...after JUST sitting down for the first time all day...
-I do not feel like I CAN accept him sexually because he has not accepted me emotionally and made any effort to really connect with me AT ALL except for what needs to be done like a maid...
-He really does not seem to do any inward searching of what is wrong. He throws temper tantrums about how hard he works (he tells me (not asks if I'm ok with it) that he is leaving to drink & visit with friends...while I am left home alone with all 3 kids to cook, feed, bathe, and get ready for school...and then wonders why the house is a wreck!)...and comes in after everyone is in bed...
-he wonders why...he wonders what is wrong with ME
-he does long for something more...more sexual connection, but he won't put in what I NEED to feel sexually receptive to him...you can go on a Sunday drive or a thrill ride without putting gas in the car first...
-Yes, he has the capacity to grow...what he lacks is the willingness to find out how...
-am not generally complacent, I have been brushed aside for so long in every way that I am not a toy to be taken off the shelf when he is ready to play...I am a living, feeling, loving woman who just might have quite a wild side if it was nurtured...
-I don't covet the status quo...he does...ok well, maybe I do, but clothes without holes, good makeup, a real haircut done by someone else, shoes not always off the clearance rack that i actually like...while he buys what he wants (music, games, a SKI BOAT, a truck), drinks a LOT when he goes out to "our" friends house...yeah, I want the basics since he has the luxuries...and yes, I work FT and make just $500 less/month than he does...
-My ego is shattered. I am a mere skeleton of the vibrant, beautiful, happy woman I was when we met...I used to be HOT...now I blend in a WalMart...it's disgusting...I hate who I am now...
-My spouse's ego is fine....he seeks and TAKES time with others to hang out and feed his ego...anyone who "disagrees" with him is (insert rant of vulgar curse words) stupid!
-I have books, I research online, I pray, I talk to a few friends who have gone thru divorces...I am trying to grow emotionally, intellectually, spiritually...whatever it takes...and I keep running into his brick wall...
-I want deep intimacy...I want to LOOK at him and read him, and vice versa...finish my sentances, think what he is thinking...I crave a SOULMATE...
-again...I am trying to find anything I can do MYSELF to help US...

As the refusuer, I feel like a tool. I feel neglected until he wants something from me. Some nights it's more like a non-violent "rape" almost...I say no, and he throws a tantrum or gives me some really toolish reason like "I'm going to hurt down there until I get some"...nothing sweet, nothing romantic...or he goes into a rage (never hurts me) and starts putting me down as if I don't care for him at all!

Ok, I have to get my child from daycare...and I'm sure as soon as I hit the door he'll leave to go "play" while I tend to the kids...and after I get them all fed, ready for school, and in bed, he'll come home buzzed and ready to "play"...and I'll have to play June Cleaver and enjoy the sloppy sex, taste of beer, smell of old cigarettes...and pretend like he is the best lover in the world. Yea for me...

What you've described here doesn't sound anything like a refuser...

Actually, I'll refine that, what you've described is quite different from how my ex- and I behaved in our SM, they differ wildly I guess.

I agree with tthetree's comment above that you do not sound like a refuser - at least not like the refusers described by most people on this forum. What you are saying is perfectly understandable, but maybe he is the refuser and you are now trying to be the counter refuser. Most all of us in this ILIASM forum crave much more than sex - it's the intimacy we want. A refuser does not just take away sex - he/she denies their partner intimacy.

Your H sounds like a self-centered jerk. Help yourself, do for yourself, seek to better yourself....the irony I learned is that the solution to the dysfunctional relationship is within YOU not within your spouse. You recognize there is a serious problem, you recognize that something authentic is missing, you realize that you are being treated poorly. You are not a refuser....you are the refused. Have you told him how you feel? I bet you have - he just isn't listening or doesn't "get it". And one last thought...you stumbled into this forum - not him. If he was the "refused" it would make more sense that he would have stumbled in here....not you. Truth is - he is fine with the status quo...

I try to read articles that will present ho's point of view, trying to find what I am "missing"...

And I called myself a refuser b/c I will deny him when I just canNOT bring myself to be with him...it does get to that point where I just can not do that to myself. I never saw myself as the refused...that gives me a new perspective, thank you?

And from that perspective, yes I would rater be the refuser!

Btw, he snuck down to drink at our friends at this very moment! The wife is aware of our situation since she is my friend too, and has confronted him in it too, but he blows it off...remember, it's MY problem, not his!!! And of course, I'm cooking, doing homework, trying to give my kids some attention for the day...I need many more of me since my hubby won't stay home to help!!!

Maybe it's time to see an attorney....you might just be better off to unload the extra un-needed baggage so you can gain some altitude. Have you also considered the fact your husband is probably an alcoholic?

Yes, in the past few months after trying to gently but directly make him aware of it, I and some of OUR closest friends did a one-on-one intervention short of forcing him to meetings. He is a social functioning alcoholic. Beer above family, unless it looks bad to others...then he plays storybook dad...
He's been down the road an hour now ( gone 2 hours with the store trip). I'm just waiting to see when he thinks he should come home "before I get too mad...lol..."
I have the kids fed, bathed, talked about school &amp; friends, holding the baby to sleep...all the stuff I needed him for..
Holy crap he just walked in the door!

Obviously I don't know anything about your situation, but you sound like someone at the end of your tether. Most of this community are people who've made all the compromise and where the position they are now at, wasn't really their decision, but almost completely the decision of their spouse. Your's is a slightly odd case, it doesn't fit the standard mould, but I suspect you belong here. Good luck.

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The decision is the hardest part. After that, it becomes easy if you stick to it.It is so simple when you step out of it. So much energy is spent trying to make something work when it has run its natural course. I remember feeling physically ill when my partner wanted to make love and neither of us understood it. The 1st couple of years were good. The rest swung between great and heartache.You see, as he grew up, his smell changed. Seriously. I couldn't stand it. He was no longer for me. He wasn't "my smell" anymore. His pheremones were different. Mine seemed fine to him. That was the excuse, true, but an excuse. The real problem:He also didn't care about my emotional needs. Never had, never could. He has Aspergers Syndrome and we didn't know. And we also had no idea what triggered it. Later we did. Gluten, Casein and preservatives. He's one of those Aspies that generally has no concept of consequences, so couldn't see why meeting my needs would enhance the relationship, so never bothered.It was heartbreaking because I truly loved him still - as a close friend. <br />
It's been a few years now and we are both in new relationships and happy and loved again. That pain, urst and angst may happen again eventually, but now I know that certain relationships have a lifespan and hopefully it will be easier to understand if it gets to that.

Thanks DuBois.....you are wise beyond your years!

I've experienced the same thing with his smell...it's a turnoff now. I don't know if he changed or my psyche associates that smell with disappointment and coerced sex...so I therefore find it repulsive now sometimes. I have bought him cologne...he only wears it out without me, esp if he was going out with the guys. If I want to smell it, I have to smell the bottle. Duh, dude!!!

I am a couple of steps ahead of you. The euphoria is real and just keeps coming. Use it to your advantage and dont let it worry you. Good luck!

Thanks Rolledover....it's always good to hear from someone who can relate.....someone who knows what he is talking about. I know your advice is "spot on"!

Can you say 100% that you were meeting her needs? For most men they will not meet their wives needs which is more emotional but they always want the wife to meet their sexual need. I could give my husband sex and he still would not meet my needs. Are you 100% sure you did not deny her something that she needed. That you did not wrong her? She wasn't denying you for no reason. Women don't do that, they also don't forget.

100% sure I was meeting her needs? She does not share with me her needs, she has hardened her heart, she is bitter, she does not want intimacy with me, she has abandoned me ..this is not the way she used to be. Why does such a drastic change in a person have to be "pinned" on the spouse who is working thier *** off to figure things out...to "right the ship?"....only to be rejected time after time. The Refuser in my situation has not been "wronged" as you imply....far from it. I'm done beating myself up trying to figure out what I've done wrong, what defect I must have to be rejected by the one I love. I'm DONE DOING THAT! I've taken inventory of my life. I've done the self examination needed to take responsibility for my own actions. I've taken the hard steps to improve myself. I'm not perfect. Unfortunately, she is unable to look inside for answers to her problems, but rather projects the blame onto others. It's very hard living with a person like that. She also is an ACOA who refuses to acknowledge her dysfunctional childhood and I am paying the price...I am the target of her deep seeded anger. Further elaboration? I am curious if anyone else has thoughts to share on the idea that the Refused have somehow "triggered" the the Refusers to be the way they are....I strongly disagree with this perspective.....at least for my own situation. To Refuse a spouse sexually without explaination is extremely painful on the refused and I wish this upon no one. It is also emotionally imature...childish.

Not that you had to defend yourself Buroak, but since you did, I applaud you!
We can keep our chins up knowing we have done everything possible to turn our situations around.

Unjusted,
Yes....we have done everything possible...I stand firmly by what I said...I would rather be the Refused then the Refuser. And, my new spouse someday will be very glad I was the Refused and not the Refuser....she will get the best I have to offer as a husband.....and the best sex of her life!

Meeting of needs. Is critical. And can only be done if YOU want to save the relationship. If you have anger, you cannot think of them any more, it becomes all about yourself.
There is a book called "The 5 Love Languages." It seems like such a silly title.
It is such a simple concept, but pretty hard to carry out if your love languages are different. But it truly truly works.
My marriage was too far gone to work on this way, but my current relationship is now based on the advice in this book and I like who I have become as a result of meeting his needs, which, incidentally, are the opposite of mine.
You see, I love him and I'm making the effort even if it doesn't yet feel naturally part of "me", because I know it will eventually become part of me the more I meet his needs and the happier I can make him. And that makes me happy. And when he is happy, it is easier for him to meet my needs...
It's an upward spiral.

Incidentally, this has nothing to do with sexual needs. Even tho we all know that sex is only 5% of a relationship, it becomes 95% of the problem when the relationship needs are not being met. And when they are being met, you can't keep your hot little paws off each other and sex goes back to its 5% which is whatever the two of you deem normal.

Hi DuBois,
I'm familiar with the book, the love languages...tried them, unfortunately didn't work (perhaps like your marriage). I'll be using that "giving" approach in my next significant relationship. I agree with everything you said and I'm happy you learned such an important life lesson at such a young age. Thanks!

"I'm done beating myself up trying to figure out what I've done wrong, what defect I must have to be rejected by the one I love. I'm DONE DOING THAT! I've taken inventory of my life. I've done the self examination needed to take responsibility for my own actions. I've taken the hard steps to improve myself. I'm not perfect. Unfortunately, she is unable to look inside for answers to her problems, but rather projects the blame onto others. It's very hard living with a person like that." - If only people knew how hard it was to walk in our shoes!!!

I am a refuser which is why I asked the question. I'm speaking to you from the refusers perspective. Although you think you were meeting your wife needs if she had to write how she feels and tell why, you would see you weren't meeting her needs at all. Men have very selective hearing. You can tell them exactly what you need and they won't remember. I know because I've told my husband 1 million times that I need him to help me out at home. Everytime we have that argument he'll say "you never told me that" and he will ask me what I need help with and I will tell him exactly what I need because we all know every freaking thing has to be pointed out directly to men. I'm not asking him to take on the chores per say as much as I'm asking him not to make my job 10 times harder by trashing a place that I cleaned an hour ago. I ask my husband to be by my side when my family visit. Just be there with me. He won't. Oddly when his family is around I'm expected to be there as a sign of unity and support. You see, when it's something to do with me it's not as important as if it has something to do with him. After 8 years of this display of not caring about things that mean something to me whether they mean something to him or not 'he does not deserve to touch me'. Men need sex as a sign of an emotional connection with a woman. It's not that way with women reason being is any man would be willing to have sex with her anyway so it's nothing special when you want to. With a man, not every woman is willing to have sex with you so when one does willing without wanting anything from you it seems somewhat special. My husband like you would probably say he's done everything, he's tried yet in reality he didn't. He did what was convenient for him not what I needed and that's why we are where we are today. I don't blame him for that though, that's part of what being a man is. Men don't know the first thing about servitude and doing something for someone without expectation. If my husband did do something for me it was because he wanted me to meet his need following his action. He would need immediate acknowledgement for the same task I do every freaking day of the week without so much as a thank you. Men need to understand that our love for you is conditional. It is not unconditional. We will stand by you as much as we can and we are able to take a lot a whole lot more than a man, but when the breaking point breaks, it's over. You'll keep screwing us over and over again until you realize you aren't getting something you need anymore because we stopped and then and only then will you start taking any action. Everything you do is selfishly driven. You don't take action because it's the right thing to do you take action because it affects you and you are all you care about. This need to be free, to dominate, and live single while being in a relationship is what is killing relationships. Men don't want to be tied down but yet want a relationship. You can't have it both ways. You have to make sacrifices. You have to be able to serve when you aren't getting served. You have to be able to think about someone besides yourself. All my life the world has perpetuated women as being some crazy, nagging overly emotional being. It is not us, it is you.How much are we suppose to take? How many dam times are we suppose keep telling you the same dam thing. Are we just suppose to swallow our needs and not say anything to make you happy? Women are stuck, we can't have a voice. We can't connect with you because people tell us men aren't made to listen to us yet you can sit at a bar with your guy friends and talk for 4+ hours about random irrelevant bs. People act as if we are just suppose to keep taking your crap with a smile on our face and just not let it affect us. We are suppose just keep going along with our wifely duties and be intimate with someone who barely regards us UNLESS he needs something . How is this suppose to work? Have any of you men ever just sat down and really evaluated how you would feel if you were one of us?

4 More Responses

Buroak, I know that you feel what you are saying of the refusing spouse is true and you have come to this conclusion from your life experience and I don't discount that at all.  I know this is not a forum that I am welcome in I'm sure.  I do have some different opinions of the refusing spouse.  I don't feel I am complacent, and dont think I was protecting my ego at all.  Truth is I wanted closeness and intimacy too. I didn't know how to fix me though.  I don't fear deep intimacy. I think I do have potential for growth and have grown through my experiences in the last 3 years.  As far as being authentic with another human, oh my goodness, I am an authentic person that's for sure.  I am a very caring and oddly enough very affection with friends and family.  Always hugging and saying I love you, I always have.  I am very honest person.  I did have flaws, many flaws! I think both refused and refusing both have flaws. Sometimes when your living life you don't always see your own flaws until it is brought to your attention usually pretty abruptly or in crisis.  I think we both take one another for granted and don't consider or realize the needs of the other person like we should.  We forget that after God our spouse comes first meaning that the spouse's needs should be met and we should realize how very important it is to accommodate those needs gladly.  Plus we need to care enough to recognize that there are needs, each individual is different, but we must meet those needs to nurture our marriage. Both parties have needs that must be met to ensure a healthy relationship and protect your marriage, bond and your family.

I am not weak I in fact feel I'm pretty tough. I have been hanging in here trying to show my husband I truly have changed and trying to save our marriage and keep our family together. Possibly way too late I don't know yet it's a roller coaster ride right now. I admit my fault in what happened in my marriage and how our intimate life suffered. We were not totally sexless my husband has always had a strong, high sexual desire, like he could 3 times a day, but I always tried to make sure I didn't let it go past two weeks. Which essentially was nothing to him wanting it like he did. Why 2 weeks I don't know. It was more at times. I had no desire, it took a lot to get me going. I had forgotten how it felt to have immediate arousal, I remember now due to getting my testosterone level up with testosterone cream. It was super low, but I never even heard of this til I heard about it on Oprah. I did not get help from my gyobn for years I talked to him about this and he did nothing and dumb me kept going to him. I had a lot a misconceptions about sex, embarrassed, shy, had negative experience at a very young age. I never would look at my own body much less his. It is hard to recognize your own flaws and short comings and see that you need help. None of this is an excuse at all I see now there is no excuse to make someone you love more than anything feel that bad. I realize and have learned a lot and have tried to make changes. We've gone through an affair it started right about three years ago. I understand why this happened and I do take my part in this. I do take blame in the state of our marriage and also my husband's vulnerability. I say all of this to say not all refusers are the same. Not all refuses do the refusing to be mean, get even or punish. I never did that for any of these reasons. There is no good reason or excuse that makes it right to refuse someone you love night after night because you are to tired, have a headache or whatever. Once a week would not be to much to ask at all and I carry a ton of guilt over this. He would have been satisfied with once a week he just wanted me to love him and he just wanted me and I screwed up a chance for a wonderful almost perfect marriage if I had only seen how important this was to my husband. Everything else in our lives was great and I could have made it heaven an earth. Now we are kind of living in Hell. I know none of this matters to someone who has been refused for a life time. I guess I just want to show the other side or state that maybe some refusers might be like me they might just want more too and don't know how to get there. Thanks for my opportunity to post and share. Best wishes sorry for the book I tend to be long winded I always type way more than I mean too!

Sent from my iPad

Hi RRRW,

I do appreciate your post very much. In fact, when I wrote my story I thought about including a definition of what a Refuser is....reason being that I do not think someone with a physical ailment is a refuser. That is, unless there is a cure for said physical ailment and the person still chooses not to take advantage of it. A Refuser to me is someone who CAN physically enjoy a sexual experience...but mentally/emotionally choose not to for whatever reasons and thier spouse suffers. A Refuser is also someone who KNOWS thier spouse suffers due to the denial of sex, but they continue to refuse anyway.

You do not seem to fit the definition of a Refuser as I see it. You had low testosterone, you sought help from your doctor, and you tried to meet your husbands needs even with low libido. I like your statement "We forget that after God our spouse comes first meaning that the spouse's needs should be met and we should realize how very important it is to accommodate those needs gladly". I don't think a Refuser would say such words.

Thank you for responding. I do agree with you on knowing your spouse suffers. I truly thought it was just a physical, man thing, but I was so way wrong. It means so much more or it does to my husband. Sometimes I wonder how I was so ignorant and so uncaring or not sensitive to my husbands main need, sexual fulfillment. I've said on here before that His needs, Her Needs affair proofing your marriage by William Harley, I think it's William, was so informative and I wish I had read it years ago. Also, I did want better I prayed about it that I could be a better wife to my husband I truly did, but I didn't dig like I should have or seek help aggressively like I should have! So many mistakes. I do see myself as a refuser. I didn't try hard enough or care enough to make it right to figure out and be aware of my shortcomings at the expensive of my wonderful husband. I'm a caring person too what the crap? The stories I have written and comments made I sincerely wish and hope I might help one refuser to wake up before its too late and also help someone contemplating an affair to think twice. Thanks for being kind I appreciate it.

Hello RRRW,
Communication is so important in any relationship, but in marriage - it is critical for success. It sounds to me like you and your H have had seriously flawed communication over the years (that's a common problem). You cannot be expected to be a mind reader, so place some of the blame back where it belongs - on him. This open forum, like right now with this exchange of genuine thoughts and sincere hope for understanding is like group therapy....we all learn something from it. Reading your last two posts leave me wondering what needs of yours did your H refuse? You actually sound maybe like a counter-refuser...someone who's emotional needs were not being met and you checked-out. I have not yet had time to read your stories, so I apologize if I am way off. If you are a Refuser....you are so very different from my own personal experience (and from anything I have read here on EP) - you love your H, you think he is wonderful, you pray to be a better spouse, you are seeking answers, and you are on the ILIASM forum.

My W is a Refuser, and she does not love me, does not seek answers, declines help, will not work on the marriage and is bitter and self-rightous. When I wrote my story, I must admit I was angry at her....angry for making me be the one to dislove our marriage when she is the one causing most of the suffering...angry about the pain that will fall upon our children. I do see my W and other Refusers as generally weak because time and time again here I see the Refused taking the big steps necessary for life changes. If my Refuser was like you - our marriage would be salvagable.

You are a few steps ahead of me... I hope I can keep up! (((hugs)))

Thanks Unjusted....I'm glad to know there are footsteps behind me. Maybe we should be running!

Lol - at this point I'm tip-toeing, but I can't wait to feel the wind in my hair ;)

So true

This is a lovely tribute to the human spirit.

Thanks Fool4Waiting....my stomach is doing some flipflops right now, but this too shall pass. It's going to be an interesting day.

Not nearly as interesting as the rest of your life.

Thanks again...my therapist last Friday looked me in the eyes with a smile and said my divorce will be the best thing that has happened in my life since the birth of my children. She has never said anything like that to me before, I think she was waiting until I was 100% committed to the decision...I am empowered thinking about the future. I'm ready.

Sounds like a great therapist :)

I agree.
Get it over with.
It is much calmer and lonelier on the other side, but WOW, it's better than craving the touch of someone that can't/won't/is the wrong person/some pink unicorn in the sky. I craved someone's touch, but it wasn't hubby's, it was the touch of someone that loved me the way I needed to be loved. I had no idea who, couldn't think of anyone I knew, but history had told me a million times that hubby couldn't do it.
She needs to be free too.

There is this beautiful girl named Stephanie whos picture always pops up on my EP screen saying she wants to meet me....and she lives only 2.8 miles away! Maybe she is the one for me! LOL...thanks for the encouraging post DuBois!

(Amazing how they are always exactly 2.8 miles away. )
You have to explore each opportunity. And find the energy to make these opportunities happen. Just don't date anyone from the office!
You somehow have to defuse the anger for unjust treatment. You won't be who you really are for quite a long time after you move into your own place. It can take years to defuse the bomb that was expanding inside you. And it may be that many different people come in and out of your life during this growth spurt that you prefer to forget or remember fondly knowing that you are still growing.
Also know, that if you do feel you have found "The one" wait 8 seasons before making any major decisions.
The first year is great.
The second can be very telling. This is when the oxytocin starts to wane. Once this chemical is out of the system, the brain becomes more logical and thinks differently with a more normal level of hormones.
By the third year, the oxytocin is mostly gone and then you definitely know if she's The One. or not. It's a waiting game. I'm into my 2nd year now with the same man and I can feel things are getting more settled (Thank heavens for that).

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I would say this is a good way for us who has been refused to look at our situation .

Great story. I agree with you 100%. There is nothing that my guy is searching for, whereas I am constantly looking for answers to everything! I wouldn't change places with him.for anything. Best of luck in your new life!

Pretty cool article this Brother B. Rated Up.

I reckon that in any healthy relationship, it is always growing, as are the two individuals in it. All entities, spouse A / spouse B / the relationship all grow at roughly the same rate, though the spouses may have to "catch up" with the other from time to time in the hurly burly of life.

The trouble starts when one of the spouses stops growing whilst the other continues ahead. A gap emerges. If the stuck spouse remains inert then the gap widens exponentially. And, I reckon, the "grower" is invariably the refused (with the odd counter refuser thrown in)

Tread your own path.