Given The Choice – I Would Rather Be The Refused Than The Refuser

Mainstreamrenegade,

Thanks for sharing your view point from the angle of the refuser. It sounds to me like you suffered greatly too, but chose to change yourself to change your situation. Awesome results too!!!! Thanks for sharing and for your encouraging words. You have me thinking now that there are refusers out there who suffer terribly and who crave intimacy...not just refusers who want everything but the sex and intimacy. I'm glad you got out of your dysfunctional marriage and made it into such a good new relationship. That's the lesson - to never stop growing and improving. So....what are you doing "surfing" the ILIASM forum?....you should be busy, well...you know..... Thanks!

ROFL...awesome wit!

What you've described here doesn't sound anything like a refuser...

Actually, I'll refine that, what you've described is quite different from how my ex- and I behaved in our SM, they differ wildly I guess.

I agree with tthetree's comment above that you do not sound like a refuser - at least not like the refusers described by most people on this forum. What you are saying is perfectly understandable, but maybe he is the refuser and you are now trying to be the counter refuser. Most all of us in this ILIASM forum crave much more than sex - it's the intimacy we want. A refuser does not just take away sex - he/she denies their partner intimacy.

Your H sounds like a self-centered jerk. Help yourself, do for yourself, seek to better yourself....the irony I learned is that the solution to the dysfunctional relationship is within YOU not within your spouse. You recognize there is a serious problem, you recognize that something authentic is missing, you realize that you are being treated poorly. You are not a refuser....you are the refused. Have you told him how you feel? I bet you have - he just isn't listening or doesn't "get it". And one last thought...you stumbled into this forum - not him. If he was the "refused" it would make more sense that he would have stumbled in here....not you. Truth is - he is fine with the status quo...

I try to read articles that will present ho's point of view, trying to find what I am "missing"...

And I called myself a refuser b/c I will deny him when I just canNOT bring myself to be with him...it does get to that point where I just can not do that to myself. I never saw myself as the refused...that gives me a new perspective, thank you?

And from that perspective, yes I would rater be the refuser!

Btw, he snuck down to drink at our friends at this very moment! The wife is aware of our situation since she is my friend too, and has confronted him in it too, but he blows it off...remember, it's MY problem, not his!!! And of course, I'm cooking, doing homework, trying to give my kids some attention for the day...I need many more of me since my hubby won't stay home to help!!!

Maybe it's time to see an attorney....you might just be better off to unload the extra un-needed baggage so you can gain some altitude. Have you also considered the fact your husband is probably an alcoholic?

Yes, in the past few months after trying to gently but directly make him aware of it, I and some of OUR closest friends did a one-on-one intervention short of forcing him to meetings. He is a social functioning alcoholic. Beer above family, unless it looks bad to others...then he plays storybook dad...
He's been down the road an hour now ( gone 2 hours with the store trip). I'm just waiting to see when he thinks he should come home "before I get too mad...lol..."
I have the kids fed, bathed, talked about school & friends, holding the baby to sleep...all the stuff I needed him for..
Holy crap he just walked in the door!

Obviously I don't know anything about your situation, but you sound like someone at the end of your tether. Most of this community are people who've made all the compromise and where the position they are now at, wasn't really their decision, but almost completely the decision of their spouse. Your's is a slightly odd case, it doesn't fit the standard mould, but I suspect you belong here. Good luck.

Thanks DuBois.....you are wise beyond your years!

I've experienced the same thing with his smell...it's a turnoff now. I don't know if he changed or my psyche associates that smell with disappointment and coerced sex...so I therefore find it repulsive now sometimes. I have bought him cologne...he only wears it out without me, esp if he was going out with the guys. If I want to smell it, I have to smell the bottle. Duh, dude!!!

Thanks Rolledover....it's always good to hear from someone who can relate.....someone who knows what he is talking about. I know your advice is "spot on"!

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership, which includes compromise and discussion. There's a back story to your comments that needs further elaboration.

100% sure I was meeting her needs? She does not share with me her needs, she has hardened her heart, she is bitter, she does not want intimacy with me, she has abandoned me ..this is not the way she used to be. Why does such a drastic change in a person have to be "pinned" on the spouse who is working thier *** off to figure things out...to "right the ship?"....only to be rejected time after time. The Refuser in my situation has not been "wronged" as you imply....far from it. I'm done beating myself up trying to figure out what I've done wrong, what defect I must have to be rejected by the one I love. I'm DONE DOING THAT! I've taken inventory of my life. I've done the self examination needed to take responsibility for my own actions. I've taken the hard steps to improve myself. I'm not perfect. Unfortunately, she is unable to look inside for answers to her problems, but rather projects the blame onto others. It's very hard living with a person like that. She also is an ACOA who refuses to acknowledge her dysfunctional childhood and I am paying the price...I am the target of her deep seeded anger. Further elaboration? I am curious if anyone else has thoughts to share on the idea that the Refused have somehow "triggered" the the Refusers to be the way they are....I strongly disagree with this perspective.....at least for my own situation. To Refuse a spouse sexually without explaination is extremely painful on the refused and I wish this upon no one. It is also emotionally imature...childish.

Not that you had to defend yourself Buroak, but since you did, I applaud you!
We can keep our chins up knowing we have done everything possible to turn our situations around.

Unjusted,
Yes....we have done everything possible...I stand firmly by what I said...I would rather be the Refused then the Refuser. And, my new spouse someday will be very glad I was the Refused and not the Refuser....she will get the best I have to offer as a husband.....and the best sex of her life!

Meeting of needs. Is critical. And can only be done if YOU want to save the relationship. If you have anger, you cannot think of them any more, it becomes all about yourself.
There is a book called "The 5 Love Languages." It seems like such a silly title.
It is such a simple concept, but pretty hard to carry out if your love languages are different. But it truly truly works.
My marriage was too far gone to work on this way, but my current relationship is now based on the advice in this book and I like who I have become as a result of meeting his needs, which, incidentally, are the opposite of mine.
You see, I love him and I'm making the effort even if it doesn't yet feel naturally part of "me", because I know it will eventually become part of me the more I meet his needs and the happier I can make him. And that makes me happy. And when he is happy, it is easier for him to meet my needs...
It's an upward spiral.

Incidentally, this has nothing to do with sexual needs. Even tho we all know that sex is only 5% of a relationship, it becomes 95% of the problem when the relationship needs are not being met. And when they are being met, you can't keep your hot little paws off each other and sex goes back to its 5% which is whatever the two of you deem normal.

Hi DuBois,
I'm familiar with the book, the love languages...tried them, unfortunately didn't work (perhaps like your marriage). I'll be using that "giving" approach in my next significant relationship. I agree with everything you said and I'm happy you learned such an important life lesson at such a young age. Thanks!

"I'm done beating myself up trying to figure out what I've done wrong, what defect I must have to be rejected by the one I love. I'm DONE DOING THAT! I've taken inventory of my life. I've done the self examination needed to take responsibility for my own actions. I've taken the hard steps to improve myself. I'm not perfect. Unfortunately, she is unable to look inside for answers to her problems, but rather projects the blame onto others. It's very hard living with a person like that." - If only people knew how hard it was to walk in our shoes!!!

I am a refuser which is why I asked the question. I'm speaking to you from the refusers perspective. Although you think you were meeting your wife needs if she had to write how she feels and tell why, you would see you weren't meeting her needs at all. Men have very selective hearing. You can tell them exactly what you need and they won't remember. I know because I've told my husband 1 million times that I need him to help me out at home. Everytime we have that argument he'll say "you never told me that" and he will ask me what I need help with and I will tell him exactly what I need because we all know every freaking thing has to be pointed out directly to men. I'm not asking him to take on the chores per say as much as I'm asking him not to make my job 10 times harder by trashing a place that I cleaned an hour ago. I ask my husband to be by my side when my family visit. Just be there with me. He won't. Oddly when his family is around I'm expected to be there as a sign of unity and support. You see, when it's something to do with me it's not as important as if it has something to do with him. After 8 years of this display of not caring about things that mean something to me whether they mean something to him or not 'he does not deserve to touch me'. Men need sex as a sign of an emotional connection with a woman. It's not that way with women reason being is any man would be willing to have sex with her anyway so it's nothing special when you want to. With a man, not every woman is willing to have sex with you so when one does willing without wanting anything from you it seems somewhat special. My husband like you would probably say he's done everything, he's tried yet in reality he didn't. He did what was convenient for him not what I needed and that's why we are where we are today. I don't blame him for that though, that's part of what being a man is. Men don't know the first thing about servitude and doing something for someone without expectation. If my husband did do something for me it was because he wanted me to meet his need following his action. He would need immediate acknowledgement for the same task I do every freaking day of the week without so much as a thank you. Men need to understand that our love for you is conditional. It is not unconditional. We will stand by you as much as we can and we are able to take a lot a whole lot more than a man, but when the breaking point breaks, it's over. You'll keep screwing us over and over again until you realize you aren't getting something you need anymore because we stopped and then and only then will you start taking any action. Everything you do is selfishly driven. You don't take action because it's the right thing to do you take action because it affects you and you are all you care about. This need to be free, to dominate, and live single while being in a relationship is what is killing relationships. Men don't want to be tied down but yet want a relationship. You can't have it both ways. You have to make sacrifices. You have to be able to serve when you aren't getting served. You have to be able to think about someone besides yourself. All my life the world has perpetuated women as being some crazy, nagging overly emotional being. It is not us, it is you.How much are we suppose to take? How many dam times are we suppose keep telling you the same dam thing. Are we just suppose to swallow our needs and not say anything to make you happy? Women are stuck, we can't have a voice. We can't connect with you because people tell us men aren't made to listen to us yet you can sit at a bar with your guy friends and talk for 4+ hours about random irrelevant bs. People act as if we are just suppose to keep taking your crap with a smile on our face and just not let it affect us. We are suppose just keep going along with our wifely duties and be intimate with someone who barely regards us UNLESS he needs something . How is this suppose to work? Have any of you men ever just sat down and really evaluated how you would feel if you were one of us?

Hi RRRW,

I do appreciate your post very much. In fact, when I wrote my story I thought about including a definition of what a Refuser is....reason being that I do not think someone with a physical ailment is a refuser. That is, unless there is a cure for said physical ailment and the person still chooses not to take advantage of it. A Refuser to me is someone who CAN physically enjoy a sexual experience...but mentally/emotionally choose not to for whatever reasons and thier spouse suffers. A Refuser is also someone who KNOWS thier spouse suffers due to the denial of sex, but they continue to refuse anyway.

You do not seem to fit the definition of a Refuser as I see it. You had low testosterone, you sought help from your doctor, and you tried to meet your husbands needs even with low libido. I like your statement "We forget that after God our spouse comes first meaning that the spouse's needs should be met and we should realize how very important it is to accommodate those needs gladly". I don't think a Refuser would say such words.

Thank you for responding. I do agree with you on knowing your spouse suffers. I truly thought it was just a physical, man thing, but I was so way wrong. It means so much more or it does to my husband. Sometimes I wonder how I was so ignorant and so uncaring or not sensitive to my husbands main need, sexual fulfillment. I've said on here before that His needs, Her Needs affair proofing your marriage by William Harley, I think it's William, was so informative and I wish I had read it years ago. Also, I did want better I prayed about it that I could be a better wife to my husband I truly did, but I didn't dig like I should have or seek help aggressively like I should have! So many mistakes. I do see myself as a refuser. I didn't try hard enough or care enough to make it right to figure out and be aware of my shortcomings at the expensive of my wonderful husband. I'm a caring person too what the crap? The stories I have written and comments made I sincerely wish and hope I might help one refuser to wake up before its too late and also help someone contemplating an affair to think twice. Thanks for being kind I appreciate it.

Hello RRRW,
Communication is so important in any relationship, but in marriage - it is critical for success. It sounds to me like you and your H have had seriously flawed communication over the years (that's a common problem). You cannot be expected to be a mind reader, so place some of the blame back where it belongs - on him. This open forum, like right now with this exchange of genuine thoughts and sincere hope for understanding is like group therapy....we all learn something from it. Reading your last two posts leave me wondering what needs of yours did your H refuse? You actually sound maybe like a counter-refuser...someone who's emotional needs were not being met and you checked-out. I have not yet had time to read your stories, so I apologize if I am way off. If you are a Refuser....you are so very different from my own personal experience (and from anything I have read here on EP) - you love your H, you think he is wonderful, you pray to be a better spouse, you are seeking answers, and you are on the ILIASM forum.

My W is a Refuser, and she does not love me, does not seek answers, declines help, will not work on the marriage and is bitter and self-rightous. When I wrote my story, I must admit I was angry at her....angry for making me be the one to dislove our marriage when she is the one causing most of the suffering...angry about the pain that will fall upon our children. I do see my W and other Refusers as generally weak because time and time again here I see the Refused taking the big steps necessary for life changes. If my Refuser was like you - our marriage would be salvagable.

Thanks Unjusted....I'm glad to know there are footsteps behind me. Maybe we should be running!

Lol - at this point I'm tip-toeing, but I can't wait to feel the wind in my hair ;)

Thanks Fool4Waiting....my stomach is doing some flipflops right now, but this too shall pass. It's going to be an interesting day.

Not nearly as interesting as the rest of your life.

Thanks again...my therapist last Friday looked me in the eyes with a smile and said my divorce will be the best thing that has happened in my life since the birth of my children. She has never said anything like that to me before, I think she was waiting until I was 100% committed to the decision...I am empowered thinking about the future. I'm ready.

Sounds like a great therapist :)

I agree.
Get it over with.
It is much calmer and lonelier on the other side, but WOW, it's better than craving the touch of someone that can't/won't/is the wrong person/some pink unicorn in the sky. I craved someone's touch, but it wasn't hubby's, it was the touch of someone that loved me the way I needed to be loved. I had no idea who, couldn't think of anyone I knew, but history had told me a million times that hubby couldn't do it.
She needs to be free too.

There is this beautiful girl named Stephanie whos picture always pops up on my EP screen saying she wants to meet me....and she lives only 2.8 miles away! Maybe she is the one for me! LOL...thanks for the encouraging post DuBois!

(Amazing how they are always exactly 2.8 miles away. )
You have to explore each opportunity. And find the energy to make these opportunities happen. Just don't date anyone from the office!
You somehow have to defuse the anger for unjust treatment. You won't be who you really are for quite a long time after you move into your own place. It can take years to defuse the bomb that was expanding inside you. And it may be that many different people come in and out of your life during this growth spurt that you prefer to forget or remember fondly knowing that you are still growing.
Also know, that if you do feel you have found "The one" wait 8 seasons before making any major decisions.
The first year is great.
The second can be very telling. This is when the oxytocin starts to wane. Once this chemical is out of the system, the brain becomes more logical and thinks differently with a more normal level of hormones.
By the third year, the oxytocin is mostly gone and then you definitely know if she's The One. or not. It's a waiting game. I'm into my 2nd year now with the same man and I can feel things are getting more settled (Thank heavens for that).