Red Flag Compliation...

ROFL!! The ball slipped through my fingers there.

Why them?

Why them? Because co-dependents, and control freaks are drawn to those professions. People with helper syndrome, people looking for a 'project', for others whom they perceive as potentially weaker than themselves so they can rearrange them in a way they want them, and be in control of the relationship so as not to end up as ****** up as their own family.

I kid you not.
Not every nurse, social worker or psychologist falls into that group, but I've met a fair few who do!

.... not to mention that this comment originally was just a testimony of my warped sense of humour. But expressing my life experience nonetheless. ;-)

Thank you so much! I am helper and good listener... and have a deep interest in psychology... :) ... Noticed quite a while ago I became a magnet for control freaks....

Based on over fifteen years of work in this arena, I'd have to agree. It seems that quite a notable number of people take up these professions as personal vocations. They are on the edge of emotional burn out and with comparatively greater flexibility in personal boundaries.

Sounds very Gilbert & Sulliven - you've got a little list!

I can see the logic of what you say, and I'd add to that, those professions suffer from a culture that glorifies self-serving behaviors too - the old autonomy/post-modernism tripe.

Yeah, I wrote the first post before the "innocent and pure" conversation. I found myself asking reflective questions, but they seemed to be of a nature like "what is it about me that I attracted such a girl?" "Does my personality not exude enough sexuality?" "Am I too nice?" etc...I think part of what attracts me is that she is radically different from my ex. Ex was very sexually assertive, and very sexually experienced, when we met, Ex was very upfront, ex was white, feminist, father hating, assertive, and a total free spirit. This girl is not a free spirit, loves and respects her family, loves sarcastic humor (ex hated that), has a slightly reserved manner, is very indirect, etc... Basically, she is, in every way I can think of, unlike my ex. Ex is white, she is not. Ex has blond hair, she has black hair. Ex was older than me, this girl is younger than me. Ex had a body to kill for, this girl does not (still very attractive though!). Ex hated the wold of humans, this girl loves culture. So, I think, the answer is: she seems the opposite of the person who caused me so much pain. The place I live is very, very international, and I found that I didn't even feel remotely attracted to the even very attractive women here, all i saw when I looked in their eyes was potential heartache - I felt it down to my DNA. To make matters even less flattering, I did the same thing when I broke up with my first emotionally abusive girlfriend. Then along came my EX, who was so different. I think my need for affirmation comes from that first, emotionally abusive relationship, and from the low self esteem I had for so long (sooooo happy to be rid of that!!!!)

So you have some clues about your own triggers here. It seems to me that you frame your responses from a space of reactivity - your choices are borne out of the negativity you experienced - whether they are conscious or not, you are making choices. Now here's the thing. On one level, you can see that they lead you into a bind. On the other hand, it also means you can keep ascribing the responsibility for these choices to whatever befell you in the past - that first abuse. It keeps you off the hook, so to speak, since its not really your fault you keep falling in a hole.

This explains to some degree why when on your own, you feel you are a different person to when you hook up with someone. I reckon you have some stuff to sort out before getting into a serious relationship. My suggestion is that you need to learn to accept responsibility for having a relationship with yourself first before taking responsibility for having a relationship with someone else. Subconsciously, its tempting to default on that responsibility, especially when you have a ready and plausible explanation (the past emotional abusive relationships).

These are just my thoughts - I will state right here that I may be off the mark and I don't mean to offend. If it resonates I hope it helps. Be well.

On the mark or off, those are some great ideas for me to consider. in all honesty this is helping me sort some things out, and giving me some more clarity as to what I want. It all seemed so clear when I was leaving my marriage, I seemed to know exactly what I wanted in a women. Now, I'm not sure I trust my judgement in those things. Either way, I'm learning that, for me to feel and own my sense of self, I have to be ready to walk away at any time.

Mate I am going to push the issue here.

How about replacing 'I seemed to know exactly what I wanted in a women' with "I seemed to know exactly what I wanted in myself and of myself.'

and

replacing 'I'm learning that, for me to feel and own my sense of self, I have to be ready to walk away at any time.' with 'I am learning that I have underlying concepts about relationships which I need to explore before I am ready to embark on a healthy one with a woman.'

It's been said that seeking the opposite of something when that something caused you pain is a sign you aren't actually yet over the "something". Rebound Relationship: "One on the rebound may chose someone very opposite of the prior partner, as if they had "truly learned" the former partner was an unhealthy choice for them, but in the majority of cases this choice of a new type of person as a partner is short-lived." More info on rebounds: o5.com/things-you-should-know-about-rebound-relationships/

That's not a red flag, that's bunting...

Then I married him because he was such a nice guy...turns out he's passive aggressive.

Being told when his ship came in after months at sea and I went to give him a hug and a kiss "I have to WORK with these people!" (his shipmates that were nearby).

That was the mirror image of the WTF moment that had me break up with my first wife, she, off the bus after a 4-6 week holiday, I tried to hug her and she hissed at me "not in public". I could practically hear the shards of my hopeful joy and love hit the ground ... NO sane emotionally healthy person reacts that way (unless, maybe, they're a catholic bishop and have reason to).

I wish I'd left him there on the pier and gone home alone. We weren't even married then.

Spend more time on Plenty of Fish and enjoy the weirdness, but try not to let it skew you.

I remember back when I was in university and spent a fair bit of time in Montreal. I went to the Sailor's Church in Old Montreal and was sitting there in the back pew when a shabby guy game in and sat next to me and started mumblling at his feet. We spent something like half an hour kind of chatting and he got up to leave and I felt that I should give him a couple of bucks. Kind of smiled at me, said, "nice to have met you, my name is Leonard" and wandered out.

Turns out it was Leonard Cohen. If there's any point to this story, be cautious but keep an open mind because you never know who could show up in your life at any point in time.

See that crazy sun.

YOU MET LEONARD COHEN!!!!!!??????? OMG what I wouldn't give...well I'd probably likely be too star struck to not make an a&& of myself, but to me he's just such a genius. Totally jealous. Of course he mumbled to his feet ha ha ;)

This is like the time I was at my next-door-neighbour's party, and this guy kept staring at me... I ignored him, then the neighbour said afterwards "oh, yeah, he's left now, but that was ____ (local radio personality I listen to religiously every Thursday afternoon)... I was star struck and felt really dumb for not going over & introducing myself & letting him know how much I enjoyed his show

Well, I've had an interesting haul. Drinking with Keith Moon, helping David Bowie pull Iggy Pop out of a gutter, trying to grab the crazy nurse that I took to NYC when she was chasing Patti Smith down Fifth Avenue...I guess what I'm trying to say is that POF may result in a potential connection but the best way to approach it is to just look at it as a source of potential amusement.

By the way, media people are strange. Known a number of them. None of them ever turn down the offer of a free beer or sandwich.

See that crazy sun.

Those people are all wonderful (not the crazy nurse, obs), but none come close to the awe/reverence I feel for Mr. Cohen... granted I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want to be part of his close personal life, but musically and artistically he beats the rest hands down.

I was once walking down the street when I saw this older bearded guy. He definitely had something about him. He was giving me 'the look' and I was thinking "Who is this guy?" He looked me straight in the eye, forcing me to engage in eye contact. "Dirty old man," I thought.

About 10 paces after passing him, I realised it was Patrick Stewart. He'd been outside the Channel 4 building in London.

You know, it's funny, she is kinda child like in some ways.

Hl42, thank you for this idea. I so prefer this tactic. State your own expectations and let their reaction self-select one way or the other. Yes!

I loved it when I heard it - it has that judo quality of putting the onus on them. As well, I think it's signalling very directly that you are prepared to ask for what you want, and take action if you're not getting it - what better way to flush out the undesirables!

What's asian got to do with it? (Not trying to pick a fight, but it's worth questioning).

tthetree - read HIS previous story

Ok, hmmm... There were a few points in the comments on that one. I'll hazard a guess that 'gold digging' is the one being alluded to here. I reckon that's not a particular cultural trait, it's just fairly common. I was in silicon valley during the tech boom, lots of former runner up Miss Nebraskas dating guys they wouldn't normally give the time of day to. But yeah, your ordinary joe doesn't normally feature on their radar. I guess I'm just bitter because I never made it as a trophy husband (or actually because I did...).

Search for Leonatan on this board.

See that crazy sun.

I think I remember her (I believe I ended up being an honorary vaghead, rather than just being a plain d1ckhead, although I may have mixed her up with someone else). Seemed mad as a fish...

Except her.

See that crazy sun.

Old world Asian culture is to hide your true feelings and never EVER show your anger.

My M-I-L is from Japan and is passive aggressive.

Turns out, so is her son.

I hear you. I spent about fifteen years working with Japanese multinationals and it's amazing how they can smile to your face and sprout fangs when your back is turned.

See that crazy sun.

I don't mean to paint Asians with a broad brush. They can't all be like that, but my own personal experience hasn't been good. My acupuncturist is Japanese and Chinese and she did say that PA behavior is cultural.

Nope, there's exceptions to every rule. I guess I had a different experience because I was doing business with them and lost a client over fifty cents (yup, fifty cents). The world is a wonderfully diverse place, and I don't have any biases, except one; I'm anti a**hole, regardless of where you come from and what your experiences have been.

See that crazy sun.

"I know what to do. Don't you think I know how to be a good lover?"

One of my husband's favorite lines.

Oh oh! Red flag. .. . . Sorry to hear that. {{{hugs}}}

Oh, a hug! I needed that. Yeah, I wish someone had taught me these things when I was young. Would have saved a world of grief.

Oh, and the classic "Can this wait for a bit? I'm really into my book and only have five chapters left..."

Thanks heavens it wasn't War and Peace.

See that crazy sun.

Three months?!

This might be controversial, but in my limited experience, when it comes to adults who've been around the block a few times - assuming all goes well (the chemistry's there and you hit it off) - first date is pretty much the norm.

If nothing's happening after a few dates, I'd say it's a friendship - certainly it's not a good sign.

No way!!! Some men are hypocrites and are suspicious of women who go to bed too soon. If you're dating seriously no sex before the 3rd date. This is also a good rule for being able to observe other behaviours before your judgment gets clouded by lust.

You should be testing for chemistry on the first date. Passionate kiss could be 1st or 2nd date. But soon enough you should not be able to keep your hands off each other.

I'm not a hypocrite (well, not in this matter anyway), and it generally shows. I also live in a more permissive culture and am meeting women who are casually dating and know what they want. A number of lovers have stated that they don't have sex on the first date, nearly all of them then did so. I interpret this as them stating that they'd like to have sex but want to be treated with respect, care and sensitivity. If you make it clear that that's precisely how you conduct yourself in your words and actions and that you are a decent human being (and, depending on the individual, that you are vulnerable yourself, and would like them to treat you with similar care), then the 'rule' that was set earlier, gets quietly dropped. I don't believe this is down to my irresistible charm or devastating good looks, because I have neither, I think it's because normal people like to have sex.

Where is this more permissive place?

Casual dating is different from dating to seek a new partner. I have dated for affair partners and I don't have sex on a first date. (Well...ok, once.)

One of those liberal N european countries.

I don't see the difference between casual dating and dating to seek a new partner. It's simply the recognition that we're not necessarily going to immediately leap into a monogamous relationship just because we've had sex a few times, but neither does it preclude it. As I said, if you've been round the block a few times, it seems silly to deny yourselves a pleasurable few hours based on rules of this type (assuming there's trust, etc.). It's our former partners who made this stuff into a big deal. It isn't. It's normal to have sex.

I think 2 weeks is classical...No more...

Things progressing slowly, Right now it is half naked time and whatnot. While it is really nice, I can't help but think it feels a little high school. Seems to be at the point of going further, but when I see this and other flags, I think, yeah - not going to go down this road unless I see some very, very serious intimate investment on her part - without my urging.

As far as potential to be a situation of robust and enthusiastic sexual expression, I'd rate this as a non starter. She may be a lovely person though. Suitable to have on the periphery of your orbit. Can't see her ever ranking with 'the inner planets".
Run the clock on it. We are, all of us here, prone to hang in too long. Make it a short clock. You've known her 5 weeks ?? Another 5 weeks on the clock would be more than ampke I'd suggest.

Isn't this the kind of conversation that you don't have after you turn 21?

See that crazy sun.

A former friend of mine, who nonetheless has some qualities I admire, once turned to me in a discussion and said something to the extent of, "You know that feeling you get when you just know?" and gestured in the direction of her midsection. At that point I could say I had no experience with the instant sense of intuition she was describing, and not even a clue that such a feeling could or should be trusted. I've come to learn that we do, indeed, know. I hear you saying that your kishkes are talking, and they are telling you to move on.

I too found it interesting. I'm starting to look at myself as a puzzle. When I am alone, my confidence is high, I can work hard, and really achieve things. When I'm in a relationship, I get so tied up in doing nice things, and gaining approval, that I seem to lose myself. Looks right now like this relationship is a no go. In the same conversation, several other flags popped up that it was like she had been reading right out of the refusers handbook.

So there's hope! Of not repeating the same mistake. Great to hear.

This one applies to women also. My wife still hides things from her mother that she fears will be disapproved of by her mother. My wife is 43 and is afraid to tell her mother that she drinks alcohol occasionally.

Yes. They view themselves as children faking an adult relationship. And they should because they are.

Adults---well at least fully functional adults!-- WANT to have sex with someone they like/love! RED FLAG!!!!!

Back when I was doing the internet dating thing, after buying a few dinners, I got bold enough to ask if we could hold hands. The answer I got was, "that's something that boyfriends and girlfriends do."

Wha? Are you trying to tell me something?

See that crazy sun.