One Step Forward - Two Steps Back

Marriage is not about sex, but sex is part of marriage. BTW, for men often sex and feeling loved go hand in hand.

I know that to be true. You are correct. But that is not all there is. Sex doesn't hold a marriage together. Love does. I know this from experience. I learned alot being married to a sex addict in the past. I tell you this if you don't have love and trust in your marriage then nothing matters. Mates should never be pissed of when there loved one doesn't want to have sex.

I partly disagree Holli. When you say love I would add friendship to that love. Love alone does not hold a relationship together. I would add there is a difference between your lover not wanting to have sex on occasion and regular rejection. No, sex alone will not hold a marriage together. Neither will love alone.

Friendship is a part of love. :)

Nearly. I am prepared and have an appointment to see a lawyer.

In Stephen King's new book 11/23/63 a part of it is about a husband who has a broom in the bed to keep him seperated from his wife so she wouldn't touch him. It was a disgusting part of the story. Sorry you had a similar experience.

GibbySan. It makes me sad to hear that. It makes me sad to hear about all the ILIASM stories. The walking wounded, it seems.

Auspicious, at this point I'm quite happy to have a dog between us.

Isn't the point to get to a position where emotions - including anger, rage, despair - propel us to a better place, that we can act on them. Of course, anger is a many faceted and complex thing, can be destructive, and can also lead to intense determination and focus. FWIW, I found the section on anger in CBT for Dummies (I know, not quite pucker?!) - to be highly useful in channeling anger to annoyance and action. I agree that anger at her for feeling what she feels is unlikely to help and is probably counterproductive, yet anger that she's not lifting a little finger to help him IS enraging. And the point is to use that burning clarity.

Well if you think anger is what helps you get clarity, to summon up determination to draw that line in the sand, then so be it.
For me, anger clouds the issues. For me what gets me clarity is to set aside hope and expectations and look at the situation in hand, the What Is Really Happening Here, Now. What motivates me is the sadness at not getting what I want, the pain I may be experiencing at the hand of the person I've committed to.

What works for me does not necessarily work for you, or others, that much is understood ;-)

-P.

What relationship? The farce of one? It is how I feel when I read his words...He has the right to be upset. Any human would. Christ. Rejection after rejection HURTS! Living it is brutal. God.

Anger's like gasoline.
If you put gas in your car, the force is detonated and channeled precisely. Therefore it takes you somewhere.
If your anger is channeled precisely, it can give you the energy to fix your bad marriage or leave it.
Strong anger is a recognition that the situation is totally intolerable as it stands.
If the anger (or flaming gasoline) burns uncontained, it generally causes destruction.
If you start abusing your partner verbally and/or physically, you are taking the anger in damaging directions, and doing both of you a disservice.
It's better to leave with honor than to become cruel and evil, IMO.

I have filed for divorce after 30 years. Leaving soon....

I never said anger gave me clarity - that comes out of all my emotions and the more analytical processes. And I have learned to honor my emotions - they are fabulous and keep me safe - particularly if I attend to them with all my heart and spirit and act on them. I don't see the point of castigating emotions as if they're bad or good. It helps to learn to trust yourself, and all your feelings and thoughts, because the SM is an assault on your own trust in yourself.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do not castigate my emotions.
I cherish them. Hell's bells, I am constantly ******* and moaning here that I cannot express my passions in my relationship fully because my wife immediately feels intimidated and goes into full defensive mode.

The funny thing is: the way I came out of my parental home I was completely locked in to myself. I had to be shown the way to open up. (although I was not scared of other people's emotions). All the more I cherish being able to allow myself to feel and to express my feelings.

Still, if something unhappy happens to me, I have noted about myself that the first thing I feel is _upset_. It is generic, and it is not necessarily directed even. It is up to me to interpret what I'm feeling and how I feel about that.
Without that ability, we'd be slaves to our emotions and unable to actively grow and develop, I think - be it consciously or unconsciously.

And some people, consciously or unconsciously use their emotions as a way to control others (which implies that they themselves do have control over their feelings): be it the person who tries to cow their family with anger (just using that as an example here, not related to the foregoing), the person who with the victim mindset pleads for mercy ...

anyway, time for breakfast :-)

You respond with clarity and wisdom. Your last paragraph is certainly true.

What the hades is it about the crazy sun? I cannot reply to Petrushka. Hmm....Ask him why he would WANT to stay with a cold wife and invite someone to be with him? He says be his wife's best friend and partner. Seems a REAL wife would be sexual or get help to solve the problems whatever they are. Introducing a f uck buddy or mistress seems stupid to me! That is MY opinion. I am out and divorcing. It does not work. Why stay? I have to live. TO LIVE. I cannot settle. Read my one story called Settling....See if you feel the words. Thank you.

I don't know ... I think all we ever really have is the hope that the other person feels about us the way we feel about them. That we can kindle that fire in them. That they are willing and intent to do the same for us.

If they don't, they don't. (assuming a non-abusive situation here - and I don't think genuine disinterest is abuse, it just is).

That's when the hope becomes the reef that our ship breaks on.

I don't really want that particular struggle in my marriage any more. I want to get to a point where I have a physically affectionate relationship with S. that has intimacy, mutual support, respect, appreciation and combined effort.
That is what SHE wants.

Unfortunately, that leaves me hanging with my desires for sex and unbridled passion, and we'll just have to find a way for me to experience that in a way that is mutually acceptable and doesn't hurt anybody. {sighs}

"I think all we ever really have is the hope that the other person feels about us the way we feel about them. That we can kindle that fire in them. That they are willing and intent to do the same for us. "

I SO understand this, but . . . as other ILIASMers have said before:
"Hope is your enemy."

Living in hope has you always wanting . . . even if you DO get the "intimacy, mutual support, respect, appreciation ", I doubt very much if you will get the "combined effort". Because what she wants and what you want are incompatible.

How would you react if her fervent hope was that you would joined her in a combined effort to dull or (better still) eliminate your sexual desires? COULD you commit to "combined effort" in a cause that ran contrary to who you really are? Can your wife do this . . . . ??? Even if she says it and means it at one level, can she truly COMMIT to doing / being something that runs contrary to her true nature??

Enna, I would not dare ask anyone to do something that runs against their nature.

If anyone asked me to be the dom or the sub in that kind of relationship I would fail dismally, because that is not in me, never mind that I could try to do some roleplay: it isn't me. Nor could I swing a whip and hit someone with it. Or feel sexually attracted to somebody else's penis. Haven't got it in me. Not going to work never mind how hard I try, I *know* that.

Vice versa, I accept boundaries. If my wife says " I am just not interested in sex" then that is a very clear statement, and it's up to me what I want to do with it.

The pain, the confusion, the dashed hopes and frustrated expectations have been cleared up. It doesn't matter jack ****, in the end, *why* she is that way. Was it her menopause? Was it the abusive father that has her fearful of strong emotions? Was it whatever? It doesn't matter: "I just don't like sex" is where it's at.

Up to me if I can live with that or not. I simply assume no longer that that might be changed.

Until some time 3-6 months ago that line had not been drawn.

Now I am free to decide if I want to work on other aspects of the relationship (I do) or if I want to walk out of her life completely, if I want to bring somebody else into my life and keep her as my best friend and partner regardless. THEN in turn it will be her turn to decide how she deals with whatever my direction will be in the end. But it's just not clear at the moment what will happen.

As it stands, we're both doing pretty well just now. I kind of feel a bit like Dornröschen after the 100 year sleep. Freshly awake and the world has a lot more colour and light and smells in it.

-P.

33 years

Mine was 30. Get out now, hon. Not too late. You are courageous. Live now.

I hate to say it but maybe things have run its course.
Its better to be happy apart than sad together.