A Glimpse Into A Refuser Mind...

Right winger as in ex Romney supporter? You know the dude wanted to do away with birth control.

I think the Kinsey-bashing is frequently disingenuous. Particularly by those who actively abuse statistics in a very reprehensible way, and have an ideology and an agenda. In any case, there are more recent data (e.g. Laumann and Wellings) which are getting closer to being representative - although the funding of this is stymied by the very attitudes it could change.

hl: I'm not well versed enough in Kinsey to debate or defend, but it was only his work on children's ******* to which I am referring. It's likely a personal bias, but any way in which he collected the data creeps me out. I'll look up the L + W data to reorient myself but if you have more on the topic to share, I'd be hbappy to have you PM it to me...

@redczar, fascinating posting name for a supposed conservative. Maybe the vomit factor that Mitt Romney induced amongst people that understand social policy issues was a factor in the results. I guess you'd probably throw the sick, poor, and people that truly need help on the street because "they ain't my problem. Gotta go gas up the Caddie and hustle over to Denny's before the early bird special ends".

I didn't vote for Obama........I am not a socialist. I do my own research and it was clear that the GOP was fully in bed with the religious fundies. I still voted for Romney as I liked that at least he knew how to run a business and make a profit.

I don't think the government has ANY business getting involved with family planning issues or homosexuality relations. Birth control is not the enemy. Abortions are not great and we all agree on that......making them illegal won't prevent them though.

Hey, Hey, Hey...enough threadjacking with political talk! The topic is refusers and their perceptions of sex.

Bingo and thanks. But, out of curiousity, you made an earlier post about you reading some of these posts to your husband. Not sure how to reconcile that without a better understanding of the backstory.

I read some FB posts to my husband...for example, "hey, look at what our nieces are doing during their Girl Scout trip to Georgia" or "my gosh, would SIL please stop posting a status update every time she eats a meal!" or "OMG, Sarah broke her leg". Those are the kind of posts I read to him. We only laugh at SIL or other FB overposters/oversharers.

Yeah, but why are you on a sexless marriage forum?

Thank you.

Not sure I agree with you on that, ray...meaning, FB can be a force for good, you just have to take it with a grain of salt. Yes, I block the lunch reporter types...my SIL is like that..I love to read her comings and goings to my husband and we laugh ourselves silly. There is a culture of "aren't I so interesting" and lots of people try to be cleverer than they are...but it's also helped me to connect and remain connected with people whom I really do want to see; it's hard to do that with families and work...this is an easy and different way to do it.

that being said, yes...I think I should block her; I'm talking myself into it.

That's an interesting observation. I spent a number of years working in the tech.com industry from an advisory perspective and couldn't help but wonder about the geeks that would invent stuff because it was so "awesome" but had no answer to the question about why this would make my life better. It isn't necessarily the medium, but the message; I got a little burned out and cynical after having to transfer my vinyl to CDs to MP3s. FB and social media does have a legitimate social purpose in helping you contact and keep up with friends. I came across a guy that I went to high school with that I thought was a total stoner (actually, he was the biggest drug dealer in the school and drove a car that looked kind of like the Adam West version of the Batmobile) and who is now living on an island on the west coast and became a doctor. It serves a good purpose for that, but f**** if I want to know what you had for lunch today.

I've done the FB thing just because I thought I ought to see what the bally-hoo was all about. It wasn't as if I rushed into it as an early adoptee. I thought I saw some potential in it viz-a-viz getting notifications about local cultural/social events and I get plenty of those, just none I have wanted to attend badly yet. So, I guess I am still looking. Guess I am still looking at it as a solution to a problem that hasn't occurred for me yet. A lot of IT is like that, hardware and software.

I accept that FB can, like RL parallels, have benefits and detractions. In fact, when a subject like this comes up for discussion I invariably find myself asking "What makes it, eg FB, fundamentally different from the methods that went before?" Scale? Immediacy? I don't see that as being RADICALLY different, just incrementally different.

At least with FB if someone is boring you rigid or is off on a diatribe or whatever you can virtually (as in metaphorically) run away, without even getting out of breath.

Yeah, but the metapaphorically running away erodes the human experience when you sit down and talk face to face with people. I have the good fortune to live in a wonderfully priviledged community and once went to the library and ran into an old gentleman that literally looked like Robin Williams in "Popeye" who was quite happily sitting on the steps of the local library playing old 45s on a little pink Barbie record player so it was kind of like a moth to a flame to me and I had a great chat with him and learned human history that I never appreciated existed and he was happy doing what he was doing. It was a wonderful story that I have parked in the memory banks and far more interesting than hearing someone post "I had a cheese bagel for breakfast this morning." Social media has both its blessings and its curses; it can connect people on a meaningful basis, but I can't help but wonder how literature would have changed if Dickens, Dostoyevski, Zolhenitsen (spelling questionable), Hemingway and Herman Hesse, amongst others, had access to this tool. Kind of like the genie in the bottle that I imagine would have happened the first time that the team that developed the atom bomb and first tested it saw the results of their dreams.

But in the age of Twitter and basket diagnoses of ADD, who knows what kind of language is going to evolve out of texting because it takes too much time to put together a coherent sentence; c'est la vie.

Ray...why WOULDN'T you want to be friends with a stoner who had a car like The Batmobile?!?!

Nota...I agree with you about being able to just walk away...for example, I posted this article here...but I have no emotional attachment to it; there are few things on FB to which I do, except maybe to cat videos and LOLcats, which I could look at all day...

I was very good friends with him. Went to Montreal for a week with him and had nights to which I will only admit that I can't remember, but in reality to which I won't confess. He cut a hole in the floor of the car that he covered with a carpet mat so that he could dump his stash if he was chased down by the cops...

Now he's a doctor. I've led an interesting life; my ex-brother in law is currently running the international space station, wound up drinking with Keith Moon and managed to survive...life is an interesting place in which to live.

I don't do FB either.............sh*tman........I left high a loooooooooooooong time ago and all the crap with it.

People are so eager to post everything on FB. It is a good tool though to find out co-workers real intentions...............but in the end, the aggravation of it all won out and I walked away.

LOL, when I want to stir a bit I always say: "Facebook is for the facile, Twitter is for twits".

People who live vicariously .... once upon a time they used to be glued to the tv screen every weekday at 6:30 pm watching Coronation Street. Now they waste hours on Facebook and Twitter.

Hell, I may be a semi-retired old fuddy-duddy curmodgeon living in the middle of nowhere, but I've better things to do with my time!

BTW, her arguments go something like this:

"Being gay is against Gd. You know when something's wrong, when you get that weird feeling, you get that around gay people. So they are just really wrong. Every gay person I've seen in my office has been very upset at being gay (ya think? They're in a PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE. How many STRAIGHT people are upset in your office, mom?) etc. etc. etc.".

Very scientific, huh. When I was smaller I thought she knew everything. She's a doctor, right? Now I know she's just following some rule book from 1942, and the tragedy is, she's in a position of power. I hope by now noone refers gay patients to her anymore.

Well, if it's any consolation, over the thousands of people that I've met over my career, some of the dumbest ones in real life are the ones that look smartest on paper. Always ask how much two plus two is. There's three possible answers. :)

Zsuz: I can't help but ask...how did you turn out so normal? And that is meant to be a supportive statement...

Ray: I think the people who can take 10 years to study one tiny detail in the grand scheme of things are people who are not very well rounded, emotionally or otherwise. That's my theory.

Mary: All you see is what I let you see, LOL. No seriously, I'm not sure what "normal" is anyways... I have no answer for you.

Zsuz, not quite clear about your comment back to me. I don't have a swiss watch mind.

Ray: the ones that take 10 years of life to study for a PhD or similar, have to take time away from REAL life to concentrate on, say, micromolecular X-ray crystallography of tetraphenylborates, something noone else gives a flying f*** about they spend 18 hours of every day engrossed in. That's gotta leave them slightly retarded when it comes to real life. And I say that as someone who took 6 years studying that sh*t.

I have a number of friends who are Phds and one of them, who got his doctorate in some obscure philosophical doctrine, basically tell me that the key in this day and age to get a doctorate and tenure is to find something that no one else cares about and can't refute you. I guess what I'm saying in my own obscure way is that knowledge is the most powerful tool in the world, and if people didn't say "why?" nothing would move forward. One of the most interesting people that I virtually met is Richard Feynman, who is on Youtube.

If you're interested in chatting about that, please drop me a private e-mail to take this discussion off of the board. I guessed Switzerland, but now my guess is Denmark or Amsterdam.

zsu, I am somewhat surprised at your surmise at your mother's alma mater. Maybe she learned that stuff in some backwards backwater in reactionary austria, but I went to uni in Europe back in the early 70s and people were certainly one HELL of a lot more enlightened than that. In fact I had any number of friends who were openly gay and nobody would even think of giving them the eyeball. f.w.i.w.
I think your mom is entirely responsible herself for her cooky ideas.

Ha ha Petrushka not far off, my name gives away the location... think "Zsa Zsa Gabor"...

Ray will do when I'm done the next 2 weeks of study h*ll

Ray & Z - I do hope I can address you like that? Some of us get their PhD in 3 years.... And the opportunity to learn computing has been great for my whole life, it was a fantastic, fun and rounded experience. And no, I didn't want tenure.

All I can say about the emotional intelligence is: I am I am I am! I'll stamp my feet if you say otherwise.

I think one of my gifts or curses, depending upon your focus, is that I have a deep appreciation for knowledge and learning and don't sometimes know when to quit asking "why?" Some of my longest and best friends are engineers, who know no boundaries to their ingenuity and after a few beers I remember when I was in university helping them haul a VW Beetle to the top of the eleven story women's residence...

There's this little voice inside my head that keeps chirping in my ear that says, "how weird can this possibly be?" Usually exceeds my expectations.

:)

Coincidentally, the refuser who circulated this article has a PhD in the biological sciences, but chooses to not use it and works as a therapeutic massage therapist.

The Professor, who is/was one of the top people in his field, claims to be somewhat deaf to human emotions and interpersonal cues. Not sure I entirely agree with him because I feel his attentiveness to my needs in pretty much all areas, but I could see where this is the case in other environments.

Having sex solely with the purpose of pleasure in mind is against God too in some circles.

No, that's my ex wife. Who was a Peruvian nobleman in a past life. Imagine trying to indulge when you get told that.

nota: Actually....she has some similar ideas. Wish I didn't have to say that.

ray: that is a special kinda crazy...

That's just the tip of the iceburg.

Iceburg? Was she the snow queen?

Now there's a heart-warming thought.

(that was one of the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tales that had me quivering in my boots as a child ....)

... or should I say 'shivering'?

No, it was the talking to the dead people, the seances, the tarot cards, talking to dead Elvis and my shivering when I came through the door wondering what weirdo would be sitting in my dining room and what infection that she would have that particular day. And the hundreds of dollars spent on essential oregano oils and other antioxidants and the ion cleansing. Google the latter on the ion cleansing.

Interesting thought, shadrack...not sure I want to even know!

dont be closeminded...there are lots of successful relationships that work in ways that we dont understand...but really when you thnk about about it...isnt all sex on a reward system...do you give the same to your husband / boyfriend when he is mis-behaving as when he give you expensive jewelry...of if you come home from a hard day and he has supper waiting on you ...and has already cleaned the kitchen... arent you more responsive to him ...if not ...you should be

I'm hardly closed minded about relationships...and you're right, the dynamic may work for them. My comment was meant flippantly, that they are not people with whom I'd readiy discuss sex. And my response to my husband when he makes dinner is gratitude, but he doesn't ply me with gifts and bribes to get his way; the two of us don't work like that...we each do what we want, which isn't always a good thing.

sure you work like that...all of sex is based on a reward system...it is all training...like with the chickens or pidgens...they push the riught button food comes out...we work the same way...if i behave poorly, my wife doesnt break her neck to make sure that i am sexually satrisfied...the same for me...she acts like a biotch...i am not interested in rewarding her...we are trained from the time we first go to school...behave and get a smiley face or misbehave and get a spanking...adults do the same thing...i behave i get a blow job...she behaves ...i make sure she gets hers before i get mine...

Oh, great, another Leonatan and Sammy.

Bingo, Peaches.

Yea...the thing about the fastidiousness is funny and buys into every stereotype that's out there.

I had an ex boyfriend who had a fugly smell..............he had to bathe twice a day.

But boy did he want sex and often..........................

I dated a woman who had been a nurse for over 25 years and spent four to six weeks at a time working on aboriginal reserves near Hudson's Bay and couldn't leave the compound to walk to the local store without having a security guard with her. She made her living dealing with gas sniffers, glue sniffers, and who knows what else. She was self-admittedly bipolar. Her biggest complaint with me was when we woke up in the morning, "you smell like a man! Go shower!"

Takes all kinds to make life interesting.

"You smell like a man" is a polite female way for saying, "you stink."

In hindsight, I should've said "you stink" rather than "you smell like a man" to my husband.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, except for the fact that I always shower before bed and in the morning. This nurse carried a Hello Kitty doll everywhere and bought lingerie for every occasion and would take the doll everywhere. Hey, if she thought that I stank, she wouldn't have been so subtle.

That was one peculiar woman with the Hello Kitty doll. She didn't bring it with her on her first date with you, did she?

No, but she did take it to New York City and bought new lingerie and cocktail dresses for it for the trip.

Well, there's "good" man-smell and "not-so-good" man smell. Same for women...we have our "moments" too...

Oh, I don't have those moments. Daisies fly out of my @$$.

Yeah, I know. My ex, who worked in a key financial position in a major multinational corporation, decided years ago that she would stop wearing deordorant because someone told her that it plugged up the lymph glands and decided to stop wearing a bra to work because bras plugged up the drainage of the lymph glands in the b*****s. Maybe that was true, but not a good idea if you work in a corporate environment and have 38DDs.

well now - I say "with mercy" for she will never find what those of us in here toil for so diligently. And you have found.

NYAG: I responded to her friending in a moment of weakness when it was our high school reunion time (sigh). It's good for giggles, I guess...

NWFL: hear hear!

Ha! Ok, WITH mercy. :)

hl: He really is the nicest guy...likely "too" nice. Always has been...would have to be.

"communication is key"....lol...I knew I liked you for a reason!

Kids do come first in many instances. We have to provide their basic needs.

Actually, the basic needs people - and kids - have are the least of the problem. But the statement is fairly meaningless, and is used to justify much bureaucracy, self-justification for helicopter parenting, as well as neglect of the relationship for example. And it deflects from creating something ecological and good - including good for the kids. It's another of those harmful truisms.

We've seen this play out time and time again...haven't we, Baz.

Amen Kelki. I have never read anything so distorted and paranoid in all my life. Completely irrational.

Personally, I felt like I was reading something from a planet in a distant galaxy from the 1940s.

Men are threatened by women who are in touch with their sexuality often times.......

Hey, if you know one, I'd be more than happy to meet her.

:)

What I found interesting, Change, is that she's a refuser and thought this was cool to share...

I don't disagree with you. The refuser mindset is hard to get under any circumstances.

Well, absolutely, Ray...and he is the nicest guy...and I say she's an acquaintance because I can't "friend". They're college sweethearts. If you have a minute, take a look at the article...wondered about the content...does it tell us anything about refusers?

I would say not; it merely tells us something about this one very confused person with a very twisted view of the world. A.k.a. 'nutjob'.

Yes, there are people like that around, but you can hardly draw conclusions from their way of thinking, or their behaviour.

-P.

P: It is insight into the mind of ONE refuser...part of what I see here is the perversion of "perversion" and skepticism of the opposite sex with rigidly defined gender roles. I was curious as to whether anyone had a refuser spouse who might share some of these views. Not sure I can draw conclusions either, but I wanted to put it out there for discussion.

I think it gives a pretty good idea of many refusers................they like to make you EARN it.

Yes, Scooter...the ones who will even attempt to have sex with you!