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A Glimpse Into A Refuser Mind...

An acquaintance from high school who is a known refuser* posted this on Facebook the other day. 

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=260039

I'd like to get your thoughts...what do you think of this?

-MR


*(She has stated that she is proud of the fact that she runs their sex life and makes him do chores before she'll give him sex).
maryryan maryryan 46-50, F 19 Responses Nov 18, 2012

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a rather cold hearted woman! wow! sounds like my Wife. Except my wife eventually decided sex was the problem, eliminate it an I would be her quiet little husband.
Didn't turn out so well! She still can't figure out why I don't like spending time with her? Did we marry for love, or to control someone? I know what my answer is!

That "B" will find out the hard way...............that she doesn't have a golden ******. The dude will just go elsewhere. Why do women think they can do this? Makes me ashamed to be female.

Each to their own,live and let live I say.

There is one thing that has some merit in the article: Kinsey definitely produced some "dodgy" research and there's a good chance that people (including children) suffered harm because of it. Not all of his work was suspect, but some was. I can't go along with any of the rest of it...and I'm a right-winger!

Right winger as in ex Romney supporter? You know the dude wanted to do away with birth control.

I think the Kinsey-bashing is frequently disingenuous. Particularly by those who actively abuse statistics in a very reprehensible way, and have an ideology and an agenda. In any case, there are more recent data (e.g. Laumann and Wellings) which are getting closer to being representative - although the funding of this is stymied by the very attitudes it could change.

hl: I'm not well versed enough in Kinsey to debate or defend, but it was only his work on children's ******* to which I am referring. It's likely a personal bias, but any way in which he collected the data creeps me out. I'll look up the L + W data to reorient myself but if you have more on the topic to share, I'd be hbappy to have you PM it to me...

I didn't vote for Obama........I am not a socialist. I do my own research and it was clear that the GOP was fully in bed with the religious fundies. I still voted for Romney as I liked that at least he knew how to run a business and make a profit.

I don't think the government has ANY business getting involved with family planning issues or homosexuality relations. Birth control is not the enemy. Abortions are not great and we all agree on that......making them illegal won't prevent them though.

Hey, Hey, Hey...enough threadjacking with political talk! The topic is refusers and their perceptions of sex.

I read some FB posts to my husband...for example, "hey, look at what our nieces are doing during their Girl Scout trip to Georgia" or "my gosh, would SIL please stop posting a status update every time she eats a meal!" or "OMG, Sarah broke her leg". Those are the kind of posts I read to him. We only laugh at SIL or other FB overposters/oversharers.

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Oh, so you've met my mother?

Seriously. My mother spews this sh*t, and I have tried discussing this, arguing, etc (by "this" I mean "theories about why gay people are evil, bad, psychologically broken, etc").

My mother is a practicing psychiatrist, BTW. I'm sure she learned all these "facts" in university in Europe in the late 60's early 70's.

No idea is she's a "refuser" but could be.

She is VERY controlling of her environment.

BTW, her arguments go something like this:

"Being gay is against Gd. You know when something's wrong, when you get that weird feeling, you get that around gay people. So they are just really wrong. Every gay person I've seen in my office has been very upset at being gay (ya think? They're in a PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE. How many STRAIGHT people are upset in your office, mom?) etc. etc. etc.".

Very scientific, huh. When I was smaller I thought she knew everything. She's a doctor, right? Now I know she's just following some rule book from 1942, and the tragedy is, she's in a position of power. I hope by now noone refers gay patients to her anymore.

Zsuz: I can't help but ask...how did you turn out so normal? And that is meant to be a supportive statement...

Ray: I think the people who can take 10 years to study one tiny detail in the grand scheme of things are people who are not very well rounded, emotionally or otherwise. That's my theory.

Mary: All you see is what I let you see, LOL. No seriously, I'm not sure what "normal" is anyways... I have no answer for you.

Ray: the ones that take 10 years of life to study for a PhD or similar, have to take time away from REAL life to concentrate on, say, micromolecular X-ray crystallography of tetraphenylborates, something noone else gives a flying f*** about they spend 18 hours of every day engrossed in. That's gotta leave them slightly retarded when it comes to real life. And I say that as someone who took 6 years studying that sh*t.

zsu, I am somewhat surprised at your surmise at your mother's alma mater. Maybe she learned that stuff in some backwards backwater in reactionary austria, but I went to uni in Europe back in the early 70s and people were certainly one HELL of a lot more enlightened than that. In fact I had any number of friends who were openly gay and nobody would even think of giving them the eyeball. f.w.i.w.
I think your mom is entirely responsible herself for her cooky ideas.

Ha ha Petrushka not far off, my name gives away the location... think "Zsa Zsa Gabor"...

Ray will do when I'm done the next 2 weeks of study h*ll

Ray & Z - I do hope I can address you like that? Some of us get their PhD in 3 years.... And the opportunity to learn computing has been great for my whole life, it was a fantastic, fun and rounded experience. And no, I didn't want tenure.

All I can say about the emotional intelligence is: I am I am I am! I'll stamp my feet if you say otherwise.

Coincidentally, the refuser who circulated this article has a PhD in the biological sciences, but chooses to not use it and works as a therapeutic massage therapist.

The Professor, who is/was one of the top people in his field, claims to be somewhat deaf to human emotions and interpersonal cues. Not sure I entirely agree with him because I feel his attentiveness to my needs in pretty much all areas, but I could see where this is the case in other environments.

Having sex solely with the purpose of pleasure in mind is against God too in some circles.

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She isn't one of the x% percentage of Americans who are supposed to believe they have been abducted by aliens?

nota: Actually....she has some similar ideas. Wish I didn't have to say that.

ray: that is a special kinda crazy...

Iceburg? Was she the snow queen?

Now there's a heart-warming thought.

(that was one of the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tales that had me quivering in my boots as a child ....)

... or should I say 'shivering'?

i guess it relly depends on the arrangement between the 2....if he is submissive in nature...and she is making worth his while...it might be great for him...or he likes being a cuckold...otherwise it is very destructive for both of them

Interesting thought, shadrack...not sure I want to even know!

dont be closeminded...there are lots of successful relationships that work in ways that we dont understand...but really when you thnk about about it...isnt all sex on a reward system...do you give the same to your husband / boyfriend when he is mis-behaving as when he give you expensive jewelry...of if you come home from a hard day and he has supper waiting on you ...and has already cleaned the kitchen... arent you more responsive to him ...if not ...you should be

I'm hardly closed minded about relationships...and you're right, the dynamic may work for them. My comment was meant flippantly, that they are not people with whom I'd readiy discuss sex. And my response to my husband when he makes dinner is gratitude, but he doesn't ply me with gifts and bribes to get his way; the two of us don't work like that...we each do what we want, which isn't always a good thing.

sure you work like that...all of sex is based on a reward system...it is all training...like with the chickens or pidgens...they push the riught button food comes out...we work the same way...if i behave poorly, my wife doesnt break her neck to make sure that i am sexually satrisfied...the same for me...she acts like a biotch...i am not interested in rewarding her...we are trained from the time we first go to school...behave and get a smiley face or misbehave and get a spanking...adults do the same thing...i behave i get a blow job...she behaves ...i make sure she gets hers before i get mine...

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I think this is another example of taking something that is so wonderful (SEX) and turning it into something to control and of which to be fearful.

Warped human beings making life harder for the rest of us {shaking head}.

Bingo, Peaches.

I responded last night on this woman's overall craziness, but what really burned me is this "He is fastidious about his appearance, his home and his possessions."

My soon-to-be-ex, but not soon enough, has been deluded by the idea that men who are fastidious are likely gay. He hasn't specifically said that, and he's not anti-gay on the surface. However, he always made proud comments about his manly smell after a couple days of not bathing. When he's left food out overnight, or left clothes strewn all over the floor or left his many snot rags all over the floor, it's because "men are wired this way." But the not being fastidious about his appearance is a significant (although as time goes on) reason why we're parting. I simply did not want to hold a man who stank, I certainly didn't want to put my mouth on his body if he didn't bathe. Ew.

He's now seeing a new woman and told me she has the same complaint, but at this point she's happy with him. (Yes, my Mr is an oversharer, another huge issue. But we are friends, which is great.). I've been with other men and they were all fastidious and very manly in the sack (see my Pink Tie).

Why wouldn't a man want to be fastidious about his appearance, his home and his possessions? Throughout my marriage, I was always saying, "I can never have or keep anything nice around here." I wasn't referring to my child.

Yea...the thing about the fastidiousness is funny and buys into every stereotype that's out there.

I had an ex boyfriend who had a fugly smell..............he had to bathe twice a day.

But boy did he want sex and often..........................

"You smell like a man" is a polite female way for saying, "you stink."

In hindsight, I should've said "you stink" rather than "you smell like a man" to my husband.

That was one peculiar woman with the Hello Kitty doll. She didn't bring it with her on her first date with you, did she?

Well, there's "good" man-smell and "not-so-good" man smell. Same for women...we have our "moments" too...

Oh, I don't have those moments. Daisies fly out of my @$$.

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I can't read this kind of nonsense---I don't want it infecting my brain. But my advice would be, defriend and block this person without mercy!

well now - I say "with mercy" for she will never find what those of us in here toil for so diligently. And you have found.

NYAG: I responded to her friending in a moment of weakness when it was our high school reunion time (sigh). It's good for giggles, I guess...

NWFL: hear hear!

Ha! Ok, WITH mercy. :)

The good news here is that she's come out as an identifiable whack-job. People can then take their own decisions about the appropriate distance from her.

The bad news is that many things that are mainstream and "acceptable" are also lunacy in our society - rather less obvious because they are under the radar, are insidious and hard to avoid being infected by them. I'm very lucky that I was bought up as a kid in different cultures, which helps me see some of the idiocies more plainly - not that I'm immune.

There are quite a lot of things I think and do not always voice because people will look at me as if I've said I torture puppies for fun. For example, challenging "the kids come first" statement, or "communication is key" etc.

I do hope the H will start to see things with more clarity, hopefully he'll view the post and not be too fried & boiled to realise his position.

hl: He really is the nicest guy...likely "too" nice. Always has been...would have to be.

"communication is key"....lol...I knew I liked you for a reason!

Kids do come first in many instances. We have to provide their basic needs.

Actually, the basic needs people - and kids - have are the least of the problem. But the statement is fairly meaningless, and is used to justify much bureaucracy, self-justification for helicopter parenting, as well as neglect of the relationship for example. And it deflects from creating something ecological and good - including good for the kids. It's another of those harmful truisms.

<p>I've actually addressed the aquaintances mindset rather than the article here.</p><p>I would figure that she reckons she has actually managed find a way to make other peoples (his) choices for him.</p><p>Just like 'we' wish we could make our refuser choose behaviour other than what they do.</p><p>She is incorrect. It is still HE who is doing the choosing, he chooses to go along with her bullshit at this time (for reasons that make sense to him at this time) The risk of him choosing differently is always there. When (if) he does, down comes the house of cards.</p><p>That is the risk with refusive behaviour. Whereas the motive is usually just to keep the refused at managable distance, it actually is more potent a weapon than that, and eventually drives the refused out the door - which was not the refusers intent.</p><p>The refuser wants you there, but under control, at a managable distance. They certainly don't want you right out of their life. I mean, **** me, it took long enough to train the refused they have now. The prospect of sourcing a replacement, then training them up to the same standard has no appeal at all.</p><p>Tread your own path.</p>

We've seen this play out time and time again...haven't we, Baz.

I cannot beleive she posted that on Facebook. She is announcing to all her friends and family that she is living in 1950 and enjoys being a frigid *****. Then she takes it farther to suggest some of the population is not being human. Creepy!

Amen Kelki. I have never read anything so distorted and paranoid in all my life. Completely irrational.

This gal really suffers from distorted thinking.

Well, it seems to equate homosexuality to a perverse pathology, nothing new there - I've seen that before. But then it goes further to equate an active male heterosexual drive to the same "perverse pathology". That IS a new one for me. That a heterosexual male wanting sex and ironing a shirt (both qualities I'd be looking for in the next man, one more so than the other) is because he's been 'tricked' into believing homosexual propaganda about sex.

Lovely.

This is truly twisted and sick.

There wasn't much there about women wanting sex. I guess in this mindset, women don't. But I know my husband has often said I'm "excessively masculine" and part of this is my desire for sex. (but not exclusively, I've worked in male fields a lot and I'm quite comfortable being in touch with my masculine side).

Anyway, after reading that - I feel dirty...and not in a good way!

Personally, I felt like I was reading something from a planet in a distant galaxy from the 1940s.

Men are threatened by women who are in touch with their sexuality often times.......

So, in addition to being manipulative and controlling towards her husband, she also believes and reposts conspiracy theories?...In other words, this nonsense she's posted isn't unique to her...So other than showing she's a daft fool who will fall for any sort of nonsense, it does not show her thought process well.<br />
<br />
...I went to the site she'd reposted it from...the people there seem to think the author is coo-coo for cocoa puffs...<br />
<br />
And the author of the reposted article has his VERY OWN site... it's a super-special place...<br />
<br />
http://www.henrymakow.com/

MR, she's just hateful if this is the kind of things she puts on FACEBOOK. Facebook is where everything should be rosy and happy and superficial. This stuff is hateful and offensive to me even though I am not a member of any of the groups this article maligns.

Just goes to show there's plenty wrong in some people's minds, refusers and sometimes non-refusers too.

What I found interesting, Change, is that she's a refuser and thought this was cool to share...

I don't disagree with you. The refuser mindset is hard to get under any circumstances.

I think its appalling and if he tolerates her behavour than he is just sad. How would she feel if he cut her off financially and didn't support her unless she was giving him sex twice a week?

Stay Strong &amp; Good Luck

Well, absolutely, Ray...and he is the nicest guy...and I say she's an acquaintance because I can't "friend". They're college sweethearts. If you have a minute, take a look at the article...wondered about the content...does it tell us anything about refusers?

I would say not; it merely tells us something about this one very confused person with a very twisted view of the world. A.k.a. 'nutjob'.

Yes, there are people like that around, but you can hardly draw conclusions from their way of thinking, or their behaviour.

-P.

P: It is insight into the mind of ONE refuser...part of what I see here is the perversion of "perversion" and skepticism of the opposite sex with rigidly defined gender roles. I was curious as to whether anyone had a refuser spouse who might share some of these views. Not sure I can draw conclusions either, but I wanted to put it out there for discussion.

I think it gives a pretty good idea of many refusers................they like to make you EARN it.

Yes, Scooter...the ones who will even attempt to have sex with you!

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Wow! Ick. It seems that she has problems with men in general.

Oh, wait. Scratch that. She's batshit crazy.