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The Talk & Emails The Final Attempt Of The Desperate

Thanks to stories here this week I have been thinking a lot about the Talk & Emails and how we use them in a last desperate attempt to salvage some sanity, or pity from our refusive spouses.

Lets focus on the Talk. After exhausting all avenues known to man kind and putting up with shi..t sandwich after shi..t sandwich we often start to plan our talk. In the mind of the many here who are suffering the talk is often considered as the one magic fix.

Sometimes you spend days or weeks planning this magical talk and what you are going to say and how it will fix things. Now for the talk to work you are relying on many different things which most Refusers are incapable of understanding.

First and foremost they need to give a fuc..k and if you are on these boards chances are they dont. Also you are relying on some pity factor coming from your spouse when planning this talk. As most Refusers are either Narcissits or Passive Aggresives you will get as much pity as the guy who just won lotto.

Now if your still intent on having the talk i go by the rule of do it once and once only. Reasoning is that in all probability your talk is most likely to be brushed off as just having a whinge and given that you have stood by for so long and tolerated their cra..p behavour this is just another instance where you will bit..ch but not follow through. Besides having the talk more than once loses its meaning than the Refuser knows you are just full of hot air and too gutless to follow up on any real consequences.

Give the talk some serious thought and what you will say and consequences which you must be prepared to follow through on. If you arent prepared to follow through with the consequences promised you might as well give up now.

When preparing for the talk it is important to stay calm but be firm. Often the Refuser will get on the defensive and use diversion tactics to throw you off. These tactics may include screaming, making threats, shifting the blame on to you etc etc. In all this it is important to stay calm.

Now to the Email - Like the talk days or weeks are spent pondered on what will be said in the Email. Essentially we compile a shi..t list of whats been bothering us and spill our guts there. I find the Email to be a more aggresive tactic than the talk as the email is less personal and nobody likes to be confronted with a sh..t list of how horrible they are.

So what affect does the email have. If you are looking to pi..ss of your crappy partner and drive home a few home truths than the email works extremely well.

If on the other hand you are hoping they will read it feel sorry for you and magically realise how they have wronged you well you got more chance of winning the lottery.

To anyone considering having the talk or sending the email i would strongly suggest that you first book yourself an appoitment with a Divorce Lawyer find out some concrete facts on how a Divorce will affect you than start making an exit plan or as i like to call it take out an insurance policy because if your serious and the talk or email doesnt work you will need to follow through on promised consequences. Sometimes after the talk or email we enrage our refusers so much that they initiate divorce proceedings for us.

In my opinion the Talk or the Email is the final desperate attempt at keeping a dysfunctional partnership on life support.

In the end actions speak louder than words

Stay Strong & Good Luck

Frustrated1978 Frustrated1978 31-35, M 13 Responses Nov 29, 2012

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Wait a min. If you were told of how ugly, fat and not wanting me , never tell me i am sexy, or even hold me, how would i know that you really want sex with me?? Most women feels this way, after childbirth

There's many interpretations here on what "The Talk" comprises.
So here's mine. Yes, collect, collate and state your case. The case being: Here's what I'm not getting out of this marriage (insert sex, intimacy, connection, desire, etc). And I need that in my life. You are not providing me with it. Together we either fix this so I'm happy.... Or I'm leaving/outsourcing.

I don't see it as a fix tool either. I see it as a test. They obviously haven't given a f** k up till now. That's why your at this last stop of a desperate sufferer. It's the "line in the sand". "I'm unhappy enough that I'm going to leave you. Do you care (love me) enough to do something about it?"

Yes? Start talking about a fix, a whole other conversation. In fact, a whole other life of conversations.
No? Tip your hat, wave, and leave. Or choose the other two options, live with it, or outsource.

But now you know. You got your answer. Time for action. It why it's "The Talk".

And you better be damn serious about it. Again, that's what makes it "The Talk". This is where Frustrated and I totally agree. Go in to it prepared and WILLING to walk. Real consequences. Once.

The only thing left is to have the knowledge to recognize bullshit. The false "yes" answer. Of all people on this planet, the refuser knows you. Your buttons. Your vulnerabilitys. It's worked with you before. Sometimes for years. Call it re-set sex, passive-aggressive "agree now, punish later." Whatever.

That's what ILIASM is for. Be paranoid. For once it's healthy. There are SO MANY examples of broken promises and bullshit answers here at ILIASM. Learn from them. Keep a list if you have to. And there's so much available advice from "been there, done that" smart people here that are willing to cross check for you. But most importantly, people to lean on to help keep you from falling for the same old crap that you've OBVIOUSLY fallen for, sometimes for years. To keep you strong and committed to this admittedly very, very difficult path you've chosen. Cautiously optimistic is for later. Nows the time for flat out paranoia.

The email thing. No. Grow some. This is the time for the dead serious, I'm not f**king around, steel eyed look. Right to their soul. You are laying down the ultimate ultimatum. IMHO, the only people who are sharp enough to "get it" from an email would have recognized this issue long before. That's not the animal your dealing with. You wouldn't be here at ILIASM if it was.

That is my definition. I do not agree that it's a road sign on the eventual (inevitable?) exit. It's the stop sign at the fork in the road. Your fork. Not theirs. This is for you.

Own it.

Although I agree with IJU's message and the statement that you have to mean it, I wouldn't take the position that she has to provide these things so much as she has to participate in the marriage (and sexual intimacy is part of the marriage.... otherwise you are just room mates).

I don't think that I ever reached this stage.... we had lot of talks and such but nothing that I would consider as "the talk"..... I agree with them not hearing you words though.... In my case I might as well been speaking Martian..... nothing sank in. I don't believe that it was because she intended not to hear me...it was just that whatever barriers are in her mind caused her not to be able to relate at all to whatever I was saying..... it was the darnedest thing IMHO.

" These tactics may include screaming, making threats, shifting the blame on to you etc etc."

D*mn right, Frustrated.

Great post! I've done both The Talk (x5) and an email. Normally I wouldn't have sent an email but I was at work and he'd called asking how I was (a mess) and I couldn't discuss it from my cubicle. He obviously wasn't hearing me so I thought maybe he would 'get it' if it was clearly written out. That was 3 months ago and of course, it didn't get the desired results. Even though I spelled it out, my mistake (I believe) was not 'running the clock on it'. I expressed consequences, but with no time line. So here I am even further down the road with no resolution and only more misery to show for it. He gets home from a week long business trip tonight and I'll beat the dead horse one last time, but with an expiration date. Ugh.

I am repeatedly struck, while reading this board, by the 'predictability' of our spouses - it's the same story, repeated again and again. It's almost like they're working from the same script (the same could be said of ourselves...).

I'm with sister neuilly on the email caper. Relationship management via email is a road to no-where.

As regards 'the talk' (in my opinion) it is a good medium to collect, collate, and state your position, and that's about it. Useless as a "fix' tool. 'The Talk' is pretty much a road sign on the way to the exit.

Tread your own path.

For me...the talk was finally ..MY TURN...to say where I was at with my heart, my patience, my attitude, and it honestly had nothing to do with him. I waited for decades for some sort of indication of where he was with his heart, his emotion, his love for me. And so the talk was to just say, I am done. I am done with the nothing. And so he could either, be a loving spouse, or we are done. I am done with the game.
I was not begging, I was not pleading, i was just very matter of fact. i meant what I said. I was not tearful, I was finished.

and I agree, the talk is not something you do repeatedly. and you had better have ideas as to what yopu expect from the spouse, and when..counseling etc.

as for sending an email about this.....you have got to be kidding? I have seen that idea mentioned in a few posts, i just ignored answering those. Because, to me, if you are not able to speak face to face with the spouse about this situation, then there are a lot more problems goin on, as to why your also are not face to face with the spouse in the bedroom.

My mind boggles; Frustrated, you are assuming, or working on the basis of, a level of hostility and confrontational attitude in the relationship that I would consider completely unacceptable in the first place.

Well, that's me -- I am giving my very personal emotional reaction here. If I found myself wanting to communicate with my partner via notes on the fridge or emails, that would tell me that it's way past time to make tracks.

Just sayin'.

By the time you have a laundry list of grievances to bring to a discussion you've dug a deep hole for yourself already, one way or another.

I believe in being non-confrontational in these talks if I want to have the chance of a positive outcome. I have the best chance of being heard if I don't accuse, but tell a story about what's going on with me. And my personal tactic of working out what that story should be is to discuss it with friends first (like here on EP); talking the topic over with other people helps me clear my head, because I have to have said it before the big moment. I have whittled it down to what's really important instead of getting sidetracked and/or diverted in unimportant trivialities.

Oh, and leave history in the past. If you want to dwell on history, you're stuffed already: "At my birthdayparty 5 years ago you farted when everybody else was being served the cake" - " yes, but you got drunk at X-mess that year ...." blah blah, forget it, you're ******: all you will achieve is that everybody will be more frustrated with each other.
People who can't let go are no better than the a/p they accuse the other of being. They don't argue to arrive at a solution, they argue to win, to score points. Which means they will lose, inevitably.

It's kind of funny; just on 40 years ago at university we used to take the **** out of an educational psychologist called Tausch because he emphathized that teachers have to accentuate the positive in their interaction with their pupils/students because building them up would be more effective than criticism --- and here I am, proposing the same thing. Irony ;-)

Brother Petruska i think you have misunderstood my post. I was just trying to point out how inaffective the talk or email is.

Not really misunderstood, I think. I wasn't really trying to make a call on how angry YOU are, I am more responding to the fact that I see a number of people in this group acting from a basis of anger that I would find to be so harsh that I would've left a long long time before getting to that point. The level of anger where I can't communicate any more and have to resort to written communication is a pretty scary prospect to me, I'd try to remove myself from the situation a long time before that.

So: I was trying to contribute to what you said. ;-)

Thanks. It is me who misunderstood

Great post, any new readers would do well to absorb.

At best, when you know what you are trying to achieve, The TalkTM is a marker, a line in the sand, and as said - you'd darn well better be serious about it.

Apart from being a Luddite, I don't see how an email can possibly have a positive result if the intent is to effectively improve the relationship. The times I got through to W were when my guts were out on the floor. And I've seen so many instances in work where all hell is let loose because emails are being used inappropriately to convey emotion-laden messages it's ridiculous. I wanted to take those involved and thrash them!

Other problem of emails is that they are a hostage to fortune (or rather, to lawyers) - as Petraeus illustrates.

To build on elkclan's point, I'd say these things are more about us than about our spouses. I really do believe that trying to put thoughts, often very confused, painful, half locked away thoughts, into words, helps us to make sense of what's going on in our lives. It's therapy. Much of professional therapy relies on getting people to talk and write about their feelings and experiences, it's important to do so as part of the process of repairing ourselves.

I went through my sexless marriage and the slow, grinding, repeated steps of ending it, on my own, telling no-one and reading nothing on the subject (I was too embarrassed and ashamed - and arrogant perhaps). Trying to express my thoughts into words helped me to understand what was going on in my isolated hell. Oddly enough I came to pretty similar conclusions to much of the 'consensus' I see on here - it just took me longer.

So, to conclude, preparing to talk or write to your refusing spouse, is valuable. However, I admit that personal experience, and the discouraging statistics reported on this board, suggest that there's not much value in actually delivering your words to the intended recipient.

Your mileage may vary.

I think The Talk is as much about us as it about them. It's about giving them one last chance...being fair. But it's also about proving to ourselves that they really don't care about our happiness or making the effort to save the marriage.

Most of the emails I've read posted on this board....ackkkk!!!! I try to put myself in the shoes of the refuser when reading them - thinking about their reactions. It would **** me off to get one of those. They tend to be a real laundry list of their wrongs. Nobody likes to read all of that - and after the third accusation I think most humans would be filled with too much rage to take in the rest of it.

I think it IS all about us, actually. It generally falls on deaf ears for one but two, it is us drawing a line in the sand. Setting our boundaries and deciding we are worth more than what we are getting right now. That is for us, not them.

Excellent post and so true. Nice to see one of the more respected heads here contributing with a good piece. Many here should read this before having the talk or sending the email.

Rated Up!

LIKE to the tenth power.