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A Night Like Tonight...

Tonight we went to a formal for her company. She wore a fantastic dress and I wore a suit. I was attentive, stayed with her and we had a pretty good time.

So when we walk through the door and go into the bedroom, I know how this night should end. I know I should unzip her, take off my tie...etc.... graphics not needed, you get the point. It should have been intimate, special because of what we were wearing....slow (of fast...whatever)... only point is, it should have been.

Instead, she insisted on changing in the closet, getting in bed, rolling up in the covers and putting the f***ing TV on some stupid sitcom.

Not a new story, but a night like tonight should not have ended like this.

I left..logged on, said screw it, logged off and went and said something. She replied she didn't mind if I sat and watched TV while she went to sleep. I said there's only one thing worse than not having you, and that's sitting 1 foot away and not having you. Nothing... no comment, no understanding.

And so I'm here to vent in a short story instead of going outside and yelling at the heavens. Not sure there's really anything to comment on here... guess I just need to vent it to someone. Its going to be a long night.
RandDannesk RandDannesk 46-50, M 119 Responses Dec 11, 2012

Your Response


Yep, women don't get it. A night like that is supposed to have a sexual end.

Ditto but in reverse

Is it too optimistic to suggest that maybe she just wasn't in the mood?

This is how I feel lots if it was just so easy to walk away from her and never look back but it's so hard I can't do it yet

For crying out loud, you logged on before talking to her. Why didn't you just get a bucket off ice cold water and throw it over her?
You logged on? Does that not seem odd to you, you had a beautiful woman who you say you love, yet you logged on!!!! Why did you not sit down with her give her your full attention and TALK TO HER, why didn't you ask her how she felt, why did you not tell her how wonderful she looked, why did she not have your full attention? Why did you not just hold her? Why did you expect such a regimented approach to sex. She looked good you made an effort you got home and you wanted to jump her, after you had checked your e mails? Get ******* real!! Who the hell do you think you are? You are no lover, your a control freak! Get over yourself!!! Make her feel she matters, give her that, clearly she loves you! But you! Clearly think your a big deal. Welcome loneliness it's gonna be your best friend, no matter what you have or how great you think you are.

Ummmm did you read that his wife got changed in the CLOSET, went to bed and turned the TELEVISION on, BEFORE he left the room and logged on (and logged off again, and went back to talk!) As soon as they got home, she was obviously not prepared to give him her full attention, after such a lovely night out. It's not an unusual thought that you might want to finish off a lovely evening out, by making love to your spouse. I would have been wanting to finish the evening in a memorable way.
This man is posting in ILIASM, which means there is most likely a long term problem with his wife being a refuser. You being abusive and swearing about his response to her giving clear signals of "not tonight dear!" are really out of line. Who are you to tell this man that he's a control freak and no lover?
Being constantly refused is soul destroying, there is no way you can "get over yourself" when your heart is breaking and when intimacy (sexual and emotional) is being withheld from you.
This is an old story, hopefully this man now has a relationship that fulfills him.

Some people's empathy and reading comprehension leave a lot to be desired. Sadly.
And some people feel called upon to comment on something they have not a clue about (i.e. a 'refuser' in the bedroom). No idea how lucky they are.

Yes, sad but true Petrushka. All we need is people giving us a hard time when we express our disappointments ... we already have that, blow after blow from our partners, we don't need other EP'ers to bash us too!

Did you romance her and were you sweet to her in the day? If the answer is yes then you need to be strong, take control. Tell her how you feel. If she is not sympathetic, then tell her to join you for counseling because you cannot accept this any longer. If she refuses counseling then the writing is on the wall you have a dependent, not a wife. If you don't have a wife you don't have a marriage! If you lover her deeply, it is very hard, trust me I know. But remember you have one life. If it does end up with you splitting, try to end up as friends. It helps! Good luck.

I'm 51 and married 28 years with a few of those years suffering from this type of behavior. So i think I qualify to tell what I think. Your sex with her needed to start before she got dressed for the evening. Did you request she wear no panties? Did you suggest she bring your hand to her breast as a sign she wants to dance? Did you think to stroke her lip with a wet finger while sharing a glass of wine? Do you talk openly about what you want her to do while you have sex? Have you showed her how you *** when she is not with you? Have you asked her to show you the same? Do you know her 2 most intimate fantasies? Does she know yours? It takes a lot of trust and love and holding each other and sharing regularly to get to that last stage! I have only shared one of two of my biggest fantasies. But I am hinting all around the second. It is scary because you may even feel that you could lose her by exposing your raw sex thoughts. She is just like you and she has private sex thoughts too. If you don't get into her head that space is going to be filled by someone else even if only in fantasy. You want the easy way out my friend. And that IS a fantasy. That's my impression anyway. Happy to discuss further.

@STRIP4FUN; My Husband I are going on vacation for two weeks starting next weekend. We are the love of each others lives. We met a few weeks before I turned 18 & he was 28. He asked me to marry him on our first date, & we were married shortly after I turned 18. At 20 our only child, a Daughter, was born, I had a calling to become a LL&D/Pediatrics Nurse. At 37 I was enjoying a very successful career, & I was very strong & healthy & happy. Until I was diagnosed w/a benign brain tumor & fibromyalgia, a chronic pain disorder.
By 38 I was bedridden, which lasted well over 2 years. Because of the medications & being bed-ridden I gained a tremendous amount of weight. I'm 5'5" & weighed 125 pounds maximum, my entire life. By age 38 I was up to 265 pounds!!! ( b/c of the lack of activity due to the pain being too excruciating to move- around the house I crawled, & had a wheelchair for being out in public). Of course our previously loving, affectionate, happy marriage was on the back-burner. I wasn't capable of having physical relations, much less caring about it.
Finally, with the help of an outstanding Dr, a therapeutic combination of medications, & the steadfast love, support, dedication, devotion, faithful, loyal, loving service from my Husband, I'm improving. I'm down to 180 pounds. I have been given a second chance at life to be able to enjoy spending time w/my Husband, our family, & enjoy doing family activities now that I have a good quality of life again.
However, after 5 years of not being physically intimate, my confidence is gone. Add to it that I weigh 180, which is a great loss of weight in comparison to 265, but still leaves a lot left to lose. I make sure I look attractive when we go out, & on the nights that I feel sexy, I have noticed a few men give me an interested glance. However, it's a blow to the self-esteem & self-confidence to know that your Husband, who once was known among his friends as a lucky guy with a little cutie of a wife that he was proud of, now has a wife who tips the scales at 180 pounds, & there has been no physical, sexual intimacy for over 5 years. (Except this year, after I started getting better, there were 3 separate times that I initiated an opportunity to be intimate, but it ended only in me pleasing him. He didn't reciprocate, or make any attempt to be attentive to my needs. Despite those 'sessions' we have still not been together intimately.) My confidence is shot to hell. He tells me he loves me, how beautiful I am, how proud he is at the progress I've made through so much hell and hard work.
This weekend we are leaving for a 2 week vacation in Florida. Our 24'th wedding anniversary will be on Jan. 26'th. I'm going shopping tomorrow for a few pretty little things to slip into my suitcase, & if I see any signs from him, displays of romance or intimacy, & I'm hoping to break them out & give them a try.
If my sweet Husband would just do anything that you suggested in this post, it would melt my heart & break down all barriers of fear, uncertainty, shame. Right now my heart is broken, I'm devastated, desperate for him to desire me, & desperate for him to simply touch me in a sensual, seductive way. I miss being close to him dreadfully.

It was a similar story with me it went on for about 5 years after the last child was born
Then when i could not handle it any more i went of the deep end at the wife and told her i was leaving if she didnt tell me what the problem was it turned out because she went flat chested and did not feel like a woman
10,000 bucks latter amd new chest things have never been better, that was five years ago and still together

Have you tried asking her outright why she's withholding sex?

Day - we've talked a bunch about it through the years. She's just chalked it up in the past as my higher sex drive. I know I shouldn't get so disappointed, but sometimes when it seems the momment is sooo right, I still feel let down. Things are changing a bit for me now though, so I'm getting a grasp on my own life and feeling better for it.

I'm glad you are. I can understand, it must be very disappointing if you feel the right time pass. Of course yours is higher if she has none at all. Is that the only reason she's given you? It's not really a good excuse.

Yup...that's about it. My higher drive and her lower one. If I really had to take a stab at it, it's about the same thing that many comments and stories on here get toward. I'm constantly chasing, so she not only doesn't have to - she's free to 'pick and choose' whenever she feels like it. Plus, it make me into a horrible sap (which is also not attractive)... so its a combo of a bunch of different stuff. 2013 is NOT going to be like 2012 though :)

Your intro was straight from my household. I am 46 and at year 26 of this nightmare! My daily fantasy is of "D" or some amicable split. Can you update as to 2013 and if anything has changed? I am about done and come what may it no longer matters as I feel virtually dead inside.

A lower sex drive doesn't mean not getting changed in front of you and witholding all together, just having it less so I think that's a rubbish excuse :P I guess it's about her controlling you and your urges. I'm glad you are sorting it all out though. Happy New Year to you :)

2 More Responses

I agree somewhat with the earlier post that there is someone else or she is angry and hurt and withholding sex until you make amends--or, worst of the worse--she is a narcissist who is done with you. I have been married for seven years to a man who started off as loving and attentive and who changed as soon as we married into a completely different person. I thought it was me, that I was crazy--but finally, I happened upon information about narcissists--and it blew me away. Read up on it and make sure you are not married to one because if you are, things will never get better--there is no cure. Best of luck to you!

That's too bad. I was in a relationship for three and a half years with someone who thought he had Asperger's. The first two-three months were okay, but it went downhill after that. He talked me into running for office, which I did reluctantly. I ended up getting more votes than he did (he'd run for office before) and he left a nasty, immature message on my voice mail telling me the results (I was out of town at the time.) I should have saved the message, but I didn't. When I got back to town, I told him I never, ever wanted to hear a message like that again. Then, in the last year and a half, the sex was more like a servicing. After we were done, he'd put his clothes back on and go out to the living room. Before, we'd snuggle.

I'm not sure what to tell you. I am glad that we broke up, but it was a very long breakup. He wasn't going about it in the right way, and I was too inexperienced to know exactly what I should do. I don't like giving up on people, but I should have given up faster with this one.

We broke up in September 2010, and I don't think he has had a serious relationship since. I haven't either, but I've pretty much given up on men. I don't think I have a chance of getting the kind of guy I want, until I turn into the kind of woman I want to be. I've been watching "The Office" and I am really getting into Pam and Jim's romance. It would be so cool to meet a guy like Jim Halpert, but I know it's all fiction. I feel for you.

My heart goes out to you. I used to be in a relationship like this years ago. I am so sorry you have to go through this. I was always let down by him. He would have started a fight before we went just so he would have a reason to ignore me when we got home.

The best form of defence is attack......If he gets in first , he thinks he can avoid feeling cornered later. So sad.

Not a good thing to have sex with someone you meet the first time, get to know that person first, better still, wait until you fall in love then sex will be great.

Unfortunately , waiting will never ensure that.

That is true, but just doing it to someone you hardly know is taking a chance, if you do know the person for say a month before having sex you will then decide that you want to or not want to have sex with that person.

Oh my god, it's sad and cold. Sometimes i think compatibility of couples comes to degree of affection. My first ex boyfriend, he was so cold person. He was good at sex but he never hugged me and kissed me once in the blue moon. When we slept i was the one who held him from behind, he never hugged me or held me. Most importantly, he never made a first step or compromise when we had a fight. I used to cry sometimes. His sex was something like beasts'.

it seems pretty obvious she thinks of you as just a "platonic" friend.

Need some teasing guys...

I hate to be the one to have to break it you Dan, but you just don't seem to get it! It's more than obvious to someone on the outside looking in. There's one of two choices your looking at. If you were having intimate relations right along, and then, without warning, or any indication what-so-ever, she just stopped for no reason, and gives no reason -
#1) She's seeing someone else, and it's serious, and you better face it, and bring it out in the open, and discuss it - if there's even anything to discuss

#2) You did, or said something stupid and unforgivable (for a while),and she is pissed to the max, and doesn't even want to kiss you, let alone make love to you

I hate to tell you this, but from my point of view, not knowing your personal situation, If I had to venture a guess, I would pick #1, and Danny, for your heart's sake, I pray I'm wrong, but I doubt it! I have pretty flawless intuition. I hope this time, I'm off the mark, my brother
Aloha, Rhode Island Jim

Well if it makes you feel any better to know you are not alone ..... you're not. I'm a little older than you but after menopause my wife lost all interest in sex. The TV routine is pretty common in my house as well. My wife doesn't mind changing anywhere ... the closet isn't necessary (so I guess that's good). I've discussed the situation with her and posted stuff here but nothing has changed. Just thought knowing this issue is common might help you.

Life is too short to work, eat and watch t.v. I'd rather be making love and having adventures personally... A relationship can be exciting and fulfilling so long as two people want and need the same things out of it.

Some very strange responses here! It is important to realise that it was your fantasy that was not realised, your desires not fulfilled, your frustration that is evident. Your story is about you and only you can change your story.
We all "want" in our lives and sometimes, in fact often, those "wants" require things of others that they are not able/willing to give. Your job is to understand your "wants" and reconcile them with you, not your partner; your "wants" or as others have put it "needs" are not a right that can be exercised against others.
Your partner (notice I do not use wife), has done nothing but make her choices. Talking her to her may help you understand why she makes those choices, may support her in revisiting thoses choices, she may even revise her choices and you both reach a point where you are content with the physicality and much more of your partnership.
As a consequence of those discussions, but not a threat before the discussions, you may have to make choices about your "wants/needs" and their importance to you which may require you to let go of those "wants/needs" or hold on to them/fulfill them and let go of the current relationship/change it with your partner .
Only you can make these choices and any amount of wanting things to be different will be unlikely to change your partners choices. You being different, either in relation to yourself or your partner, is the only thing you can do. Any other approach to this situation is a power struggle that is ultimately destructive of one or both of you.
With Love.

I hope it gets better for you, for me... 25 years of married life now... a long time ago I used to talk to her about it and complain I guess then I thought, this is silly I should not have beg for being together... so in 2000 I joined a choral socitey and sing with them... I thought maybe I cold find friendship or maybe more... well I have some what of people that I sing with but no one that I am really close too... so this year I joined the opera Chorus in the town I am in and Sang Sweeney Todd.... next id Barber of Seville still no close friends... Well I guess it takes time...
I pray for her (my wife) for her not to be so negitive and for her to be more friendly
good luck
like I said... I hope it gets better for you (being catholic there is no divorce for me...)
A friend would be nice though

I have been in this kind of "marriage" for years now. I haven't been able to make a move on yet but, at least, I have come to understand that the situation is not one that I can live with. You may need to express your feelings as part of the grieving process. Eventually, you will make a decision as to how to proceed. Your truth may not fit with other people's expectations or agendas and this too may be painful for you. I wish you well.

I read your story and I have to say you describe my life to a "t" except I am you and not her. I am the one aching for affection... I am the one who sits inches away from my husband who rarely acknowledge me.. I am the one who wishes he would get closer and wrap his arms around me or offer to let me rest in his arms... I am starving for that intimate attraction and affection that a husband and wife should have... He only acknowledges me when HE wants something and I am the one who starts it I am the one who "Gives" him what he wants. Only to be left alone once again afterward... I Love Him Very Much and it kills me he dont think of me in the same way so I can totally relate to your situation... Please know you are not alone there are a lot of us out there men and woman thats what this website is for... Good Luck and Im here if you need to talk.. :)

Ok.. a wonderful person sent me this link: about sums it up. I couldn't believe as I was reading this not only describes perfectly what she's doing, why, but also my perfectly fitted role in it all. Would really recommend anyone who sees my situation in a familiar light read it.

The worst thing one can do is stay on a relationship that doesn't reach your expectations. Sometimes we do out of fear of what are we going to find behind the door but it kills our self esteem. Take some solo time... Let her miss you or let you go... Just prepare yourself before for whatever the out come might be.

YES!!! I really wonder if it was me that wrote this one!
Married 18yrs, "regular" sex for the first 5yrs, then a few times per year after our first child was born. Tried a lot...Movie Dates, Overnight dates away from the kids, Nights Downtown, Cooking, Cleaning....They usually end with the TV on to some meaningless show and then going to sleep. Sexual advances bring out the repulsed response.
Recently, I came to suspect she is asexual. Looked it up ..... The criteria fit is amazing. A bit sad, but a little of the "is-it-me?" weight lifted off my shoulders. By the way, I am physically fit (maybe a bit on the thin side) and fairly presentable (definitely not "metrosexual", but not a slob either).

Bottom line...if she is a sexual person, then there would be some desire and drive to want physical interaction. If I am not repulsive or abusive and she does not have medical issues, then that is pretty much it....Am I missing something?

This dovetails directly with another classic "That's not how she loves you" in ILIASM.

Ask her to get help together, see a professional. Life is too short to live like you are living. I remember that frustration too well! My first two marriages were a idenical image of your explanation. I thought I was going crazy, that something was wrong with me.
I don't believe in divorce but when a spouse acts like that all the time something has to change! The bible say that we are not to deprive each other for too long and our body is not ours, are body belongs to our spouse. We have to stop the selfishness and please our mate! If we do our marriage will flourish and the days will become so joyfull! It shouldent be hard work, it's really easy if you love that person.
Both of my first two marriages ended in so much pain and hurt. They left me. I did what I thought I would never do, I cheated. I was so guilty, ashamed! I never wanted this. But I needed that closeness with a women, that touch and you know everything a man needs to be whole.
They left me, I would never leave. I am not built that way, I would have lived in pain and frustration before I would have left for a lifetime. Now when I look back I should have left those marriages much sooner, when I realized that they didn't care and would not try to change. That's like cheating in its own way. Don't get me wrong, I begged them to get help! I would do anything to fix our marriages. But they didn't care to try.
The good news! My current wife is a angel, she needs physical love as much or more than I do. we spend every moment together that we can. I would do anything in my power to make her happy. I respect her soooo much. We men are simple creatures, sex with our partner is so important to us, for her to make us feel strong and whole. We are built this way. And to not have this is awfull! I am so happy now!
Sir, if she won't get help. Get out of there as fast as you can. You deserve better. At the very least separate for a while and stay faithfull, give her a chance to see what she had. If she still doesn't change then she really doesn't care about you. Don't be intimate with another women until after you're divorce, be of high character! You will be blessed for this. Always prey for your ex and try to stay friends. She deserves to be happy too. God bless

Hello- I too live in a sexless marriage= and it is going to cost me the love of my life....but i have to tell you that it is MY fault. Our marrriage and sex life was like most others (although not quite as crazy as all my others) until just before we got married. I can tell you that i hit it out of the park with my wife as far as sexiness goes...she gets looks everywhere...but i have a problem. and its not ED....its not homosexuality....its boredom. I have been like this for so very long, after awhile i just watch **** and get off. I know its sick. not the watching **** part as i think most men do watch **** sometimes...but i would and do do it all the time, everytime. I am not sure i am helping you in this post...if anything i am trying to help myself- i just didnt know that other people didnt have sex in their marriages also..i guess there are lots of reasons. I am praying that i can save my marriage but i need help. i dont know it is possible your wife is the same?? i doubt it - anyways so after having this problem...even when i try to get with her now like 2 times a year She isnt interested...i pushed her is all my fault..i pray for you, because i think you love your wife...i know i love mine more than anything in this world and i am so sorry for being a fricken pig. I dont know why i just cant get help. listen. i dont even know how i am on this site...i just saw the story in my email and for some reason opened it werent even the lead story..just weird..i am sorry for taking up your response space..i just hope that it works out for you..and if i lose my wife because i choose to get off to **** of girls who are half as pretty and sexually attractive i dont know what i will do...i am an idiot- what i get is what i deserve...please help me god...and help all these people too..have a good day people.

I'm sorry. :( I am in a sexless relationship too. Mine has never shown a whole lot of interest in me sexually, never made the first move. He has had ED problems as well. I hear all kinds of excuses, mostly I hear that he knows I don't feel well or I'm tired. It's just an excuse. I hope it gets better for you, but these are bad habits and control issues, so not sure if it will.

I took the liberty of looking at your profile, and you seem to be in a lot of groups related to being a loner, or alone, etc. Is that how you see yourself? Perhaps you chose a person with whom you would not have to interact much? And with your self reported depression, etc., perhaps when he says, "I know you don't feel well", etc., this has been ingrained into his personality by you not wanting to be intimate with him? I am not chiding you - in fact, it sounds like there are multiple issues that are driving your relationship. But, when I couple your icon with your groups, I see a real dichotomy! You are really two different people, and I have a feeling your icon is who you want to be! So, (and here comes the big reveal!) - BE HER! Be your icon! Be the Rachel who is red haired, big breasted, small waisted, and fit for action, Jackson! Perhaps that is you already. If so, great! But, all this is in your control.

If you want sex in your marriage, get it. Your husband may be longing for you to be healthy enough one day to actually accept him making the first move. You never know.

ED is an issue, but one treatable with drugs and therapy for most men. His psychological makeup is totally damaged by the ED, though. Men think with the little head, good or bad, and when it is not working, he feels worthless and useless. He can be the titan of a great financial empire and when Junior lets him down, he is a worthless carp gasping away his life tossed to the shores of a rocky island. It takes a wonderful woman - like "Icon Rachel" - to make things healthy, sexy, and fun again.

Yeah, um, I'm not taking responsibility for this one. First of all, you know nothing about me. I am 5'6", auburn hair, 36-21-34. I have always been very sexual, and self-confident. This man's lack of attention has killed my self-esteem. I'm depressed because of family issues, I was disowned for not being able to travel to a family wedding. So, in my comment I was not looking for therapy for ME. I am a sexy beautiful smart woman with a great career. This is clearly his problem. I'm just trying to focus on what's positive in my relationship. But this post did hit home for me.

Well, i haven't had intimate relations with my spouse in 10 years and I'm ok with it because to many years of arguing fighting has taken its toll. I will not ever have relations with her again, I have about four girl friends I am romantic with, it's a juggling act but they all know I am married, they just don't know about each other. I do what is expected of me at home just no romance. Believe me their are many, many women out there who will be sympathetic, it just take a little time to get to know them well enough to carry on this romantic life. Actually I have been with women throughout my 45 years of marriage. It can work for you just create another life for yourself. Good luck!

Why are you still with her these past 10 years, if argument and combat are the norm?

All.... Thanks so much for all the responses, both the obvious and the incisive. There isn't much I'm hearing back that doesn't make me think, or in the very least, know I'm not the only one. She said something to me last night that takes my entire line of thought about this whole thing through a major, twisted, warped misconception. The strings below are already so long, I just wrote another story about it. It's so far f**king removed from reality, ...just not sure who the hell I"ve been married to all these years. I called it, "..and with the wine, honesty..." because she basically, finally spit it out - and it was horrifying.

Thanks again to all who took time on this thread - again - some really, really good advice!

You all, and EP, have made a world of difference in this last month.

Yours always, :)

I think she needs something from you but can't or won't ask. I think you have to figure out how to tell her you want her to be happy. If you really want that. Your post made it seem like all you cared about was getting what you wanted, and that her actions prevented you from that.
Don't you wonder why she did that? Don't you think you can ask and find out? Does she feel safe telling you her true feelings?
I know it's difficult to have those type of conversations, but the experience can bring you closer if you persist. It might take more than one conversation for her to be able to share her feelings with you.
You could write her a letter as well. You are a wonderful writer so I think that could be very effective. But I don't think it would be helpful to put in anything about what you want or need. You might address how much you want to have a close relationship with her in which you can both safely share your feelings. You might tell her about the times in the past where you two were so close and how you want that again.
I think women want to feel valued, feel special and loved. When they do feel that, there's nothing they won't do for the person they love.
Whatever is preventing her from being loving to you may not even have anything to do with you, actually. So, you really should find out, just so you don't assume the worst.

Dear Cricketjoy: Horsehockey! Those of us in this forum have tried all those things. The sweet cooing. The nice gifts. The making her queen of our lives. Letters. Lots of letters. Cards, chocolates, flowers. Special events, and shoulder rubbing, massages, you name it. None has any positive effect. We have lost weight, cooked and cleaned, raised the children alone, you name it - we have done it. We finally resign to a life barren of fun, pleasures, being wanted, being loved. We finally find this group of similarly minded people, and when we finally do leave, we find a wonderful world of people who love each other, show it physically and emotionally, and realize just how stupid we were to hang in there with a spouse who simply doesn't care whether we live or die.

I didn't suggest that he do any of those things. I simply suggested that he make her feel like she could tell him her true feelings. That they have a conversation.
I know it's not that simple for a married couple to be honest with each other. I feel that if he made her feel like he truly cared about her happiness, she could be open and honest with him.

That's sad, I'm really sorry. You know, it's funny, I'm single and I look at marriages from the outside and I always think it must be great, but now I see that appearances can be deceiving.

Ok, I really and truly feel your pain, but you haven't stated all the facts. There are two sides to every story and for people to go blaming his wife for being uncaring, selfish, etc., really need to step back and think before they comment. She can't defend herself. Now is there a reason why your wife will not let you touch her intimately, b/c if there is you need to state this fact. Otherwise, advice from everyone up here will do you no good. Now if it truly is nothing that you have done wrong and the issue is clearly all her, then I hope these posts guide you to the answers you seek. Good luck!

Uhh..... Buddy is hate to be the one to say this (if it hasn't already been said) but I think your wife MAY be cheating on you.... In any case marriage is worth fighting for... Sounds pretty clearly though like you've already fought the good fight...

Just my take on lasting marriage.... (having been married to the same woman for 52 years, not without its bumpy roads, collisions and repairs along the way, but all the better for the journey chosen)
We all have a personal journey which we choose to include others or not.... so when we choose marriage it has been my experience that total honest communication with each other is paramount to inner peace and outer harmony..and the journey for both parties as co drivers then becomes an experience of learning how to achieve that harmoniously...

If you leave the vehicle (relationship) before the journey ends you got to start again whether its with a partner or not...for when you can learn to be happy with your personal journey within ( dropping self criticism judgement and expectation) it makes it easy to have a co driver even if they cant drive well....

If we appreciate and accept the road bumps along the way is what teaches us to become better drivers if we can tell each other just how bumpy the road is in a particular area and how you may need help in negotiating it...and asking your co driver to help negotiate it together so that you may both negotiate the same portion of road together facing the same direction at the same time using 2 heads to negotiate with instead of one against the other goes a long way to smoother driving and better road selection together.......

Key to the vehicle: When you accept responsibility for everything you feel without looking for blame somewhere else for how you feel only then do you have a chance of fixing it....

Key to a harmonious journey...communication at gut level...if you dont tell your co driver what your part of the vehicle is doing when its not feeling too good how are they going to understand why you have the door open and spewing on the road??

Key to happiness: Love the vehicle you are in... love the road and journey you are on....drop all criticism and judgement...

Key to all the above: Its only a decision...

I feel you every word you typed I lived it trust me no one can understand unless they been thru it u start second guessing your self u become insecure I need to stop I might cry but I feel you

I understand your frustratio0ns. I put up with it from my first husband for 13 years. When he wanted a divorce I ran out of there at mach speed. Best of luck to you.

If this is that important to you, you need to tell her that it may be the end of your marriage. And if things don't change it may be a signal that it is time to move on. I now that it sounds harsh, but it will be better for both of you in the long run.

Hi ragnardann, sorry if all this has been asked before but lot of replies been sent to you.

Has it always been like this and if not when did the intimacy leave your marriage? i assume youve tried to talk to your wife and tell her how you feel.

its such a lonely life being in a sexless marriage and trying your best to please the other person and jump through the invisible hoops!
Maybe its time to acknowledge that despite what you do or say, its time to move on and be happy. you cant make your wife want you sexually and maybe she is so sure of you and your love that she isnt going to make any effort to make you happy.can you continue to live like that for the rest of your life?

Many woman like the security of marriage, they have a husband for the formal do etc but its all a facade. Life is too short to live like that. you sound a nice guy and only you can decide if you want to live a life where as you put it " there's only one thing worse than not having you, and that's sitting 1 foot away and not having you.". That was such a powerful, poignant statement and made me ache with sadness for you. Leaving will be hard and hurt but maybe its time you thought if yourself..

Sounds like the brat needs a good spanking. Why not put her over your knee and warm her cheeks up a bit?

So sorry, man. Been there. Hope you can work it out

im sorry if this sounds uncaring... LEAVE HER ***!!! we live in a society now days that's way too open about sexuality & how important it is in a relationship for her to be so frigid & uncaring about your needs...she's not the only one in the relationship who matters!!! there have been sometimes when i wasn't in the mood but i thought & cared enough about my partner that i made love ne way & i definetly got into it as things heated up ;) if you have really tried everything to fix the problem & she isn't willing to put in any effort herself then you're not the problem she is & it's not fair for you to be deprived in that way!!!

You should have complimented her after getting home. Start kissing her all over. Unless you are such a bad lover that she will never want you. Then you need some lessons.
You can only change yourself.

First of all, nobody knows you and your wife personally. So having said that; I'll make my comment. We as a society always like to blame the guy. I bet she's always concerned about her needs being met. Your wants and needs don't even enter the picture. A good women is hard to find these days. It took a lot of guts to get off the computer and go back into the bedroom; you probably rehearsed a couple of times what you were going to say.
Obviously you were pissed-off and had to tell her how you felt. Well that's all I can say. Don't beat yourself up over this. Remember relationships involve two people to make it work right; this is "on" her shoulders too.

I'm sorry you feel rejected and frustrated. Unfortunately, those feelings are governing your interpretation of that evening. It's possible your wife has a case.

In a happy sexual relationship, both partners have to be in agreement. In your report, though, there's no indication that you and your wife talked over making love. Instead, we hear what you fantasied: "I know how this night should end. I know I should unzip her...It should have been intimate, special because of what we were wearing....slow (of fast...whatever)... only point is, it should have been...a night like tonight should not have ended like this."

Clearly your wife didn't share your fantasy. Her behavior may well have said: "I know how this night should end. I may look good, but I can't wait to get out of this dress. This was business stuff, so I've been on all evening. I'm dead tired. All I want to do is cool out and go to sleep."

Notice that this has nothing to do with you. The only fact anyone can draw from your account is that you wanted to have sex and she didn't. Your negative reactions are in your head. You might have easily said, "I'm bushed too. Let's go to sleep early."

One suggestion: There are many kinds of intimacy besides having intercourse. In this case, your wife may have wanted you to climb into bed with her, snuggle, and watch TV together. She hinted as much when she "replied she didn't mind if I sat and watched TV while she went to sleep." Intimacy is kept alive by loving comments and lots of support, companionship and affection.

Another suggestion: Make an appointment to make love. Spontaneity is great, but in busy schedules it's not likely to happen. There's nothing wrong with saying, "Let's make love Friday evening." Which blocks out time, connotes a commitment, and pretty much guarantees a sexual encounter.

Clinic - good point, and I know that's possible (if not probable) that I read into it sometimes. This (what you said) is part of why I don't leave (on top of the 'fixing' urge that makes sense from a post below).. I do try and consider that my interpretation is wrong.. I'm not psychic, I know I can't read her mind.. but I know I'm tired of feeling lonely and rejected. Interesting thought on the Appointment.. might work, but it seems so 'business', doesn't it?.... thanks for your thoughts :)

Been there, done that, as the wife who wanted nothing to do with the husband. And all I can do is tell you where I was coming from. I was criticized constantly outside the bedroom, that my parenting was lacking, my cooking skills, cleaning abilities, etc., etc. were all abysmal. I really could do nothing without being criticized. He told me to hire a cleaning lady, and when I did, and she didn't clean to his satisfaction, I didn't "manage" her well enough. You see where I'm coming from? His kids wanted nothing to do with him for many years for the same reason. Seven years later, I am married to a man who tells me how awesome I am on a regular basis. He thanks me for cooking, he pitches in and cleans alongside me, etc. He tells me how sexy he thinks I am, rather than pointing out where my jeans might have gotten a little tighter (yes - husband #1 did that.) So, after being treated like someone who is inferior, I am now treated like the worthwhile person that I am, and it is very much reflected in the bedroom ;) Just another side of the coin, in case you see any of our scenario in your life. Good luck!

Good for you! It makes me feel hopeful when someone finally gets happy here.

I was watching a show last night "Precognition" with Sandra bullock, and I could not help thinking of it when I read the article.
In the beginning, the couple was gungho for a family and the huge house and nice cars and the social status.
True to form as the years go by and the kids pop out, boredom sets in and no one is happy.
Mostly the guy thinks that bringing home the bacon to make everything work is what is needed, as he get promotions and stays at work more. This in his opinion is what the woman wants. To have everything she asks for. He tries to make it happen. Yes it is that simple.
The woman has this vision in her head that the man tries to fulfill. Unfortunately, at the cost of their marriage, he can not give her everything she wants. He has already given her what she NEEDS, but not what she wants.
This is when the vicious cycle enters the dangerous phase.
She complains he is never at home to spend time with her and the kids, and he retorts that everything he is doing is for her and the kids.
She craves excitement to counter the dull existence her life has become, and he craves a sense of being needed again rather than being taken for granted.
I have seen and experience these (the male side) destructive events.
I have said exactly what I thought might be wrong and even offered a way of fixing it. (guys fix things) I was too late. I could not compete against the image of the fantasy girls are bombarded with from age 3.
I did go to counseling, I did get self help tapes. I tried to engage her in activities. These activities were ones that I thought she would want to go to. I was wrong again.
So like most men, I had to start my life over at age 38.
There are a lot of hateful and hurtful things going around that could explain why it happened. Guys need that reassurance to determine that everything was tried and done. When nothing works, we still wonder why. It is in our nature to try and fix it.
My greatest question was: How could a good looking healthy woman NOT be interested in sex. I could not resolve that question.
I did not stay for the kids, nor did I stay in the marriage. I am still a parent to my grown kids despite their lack of morals and considerations.
Could I have done better. I want to say yes, but for the life of me I do not know how.

Robert - boy does that strike a great deal of familiar thoughts that go through my head! I already knew (she's criticized me for it) that I tend to want to 'fix' things - now that I think about it, maybe that's why I stay locked in here in spite of all the signs.. I guess I can't accept that I can't fix this.. that she rejects me... It's not a puzzle or a math problem, its ME and that obviously bothers me. Would I feel this way if all the sudden she unleashed everything I think I want? Great comments, and exactly why I stick around EP and ask for input - lots to think over. Thanks.

Do you pay attention to your wife in non-sexual ways during the day or does every hug or show of support/emotion always lead to sex with you? If you don't want sex, do you give her hugs or even a squeeze on her shoulder? Do you put your wife first when you make decisions? Do you let your wife know she's loved not because she's handy for sex but for her laughter, her intelligence, her character and morals? Have you had any affairs/one night stands that she's found out about? Do you come to her defense if one of your family members says something derisive about her or do you just keep quiet and let them say what they want? If you have children from a previous marriage, do you expect her to be a good parent to them but always argue or question her opinion regarding homework, dating, chores, etc.? Do you work steadily or quit job after job because you get mad or fed up while your wife works all the time to support the both of you and pay bills? Do you complain about everything at work, at home and all points in between without finding anything positive about anything? Do you not see the flaws in yourself, just in others? See where I'm going with this? After all this, or even some of this, would it surprise anyone that a woman doesn't want to have sex?

Jstb, I know what you're saying, and the only thing that I think I'm prob close to above is the need for intimacy.. otherwise, none of that applies (in fact, most of it is the opposite). I've read the books.. far too many..tried all sorts of things (romantic gestures, fun (outings), etc..). After reading all the comments and other stories (all of them have at least something that can be learned), I think I'm coming to the conclusion I'm too available... I'm too easy... no challenge (I've read about that too). After all, if you had some dope jump at your every whim, ready at a momments notice for any sign of intimacy, leaving small gestures even though you blow him off... in the end... wouldn't that, frankly, make you sick? It would for me. I wrote this in an earlier post (after I wrote the story) and I'm driving on with this - I'm starting to build 'my own' life back... pursue my interests (reading, music, writing...), etc... If it causes her to notice I'm no longer at her feet waiting for crumbs, great.. if not, I'm still building my way forward.

Thanks for the input though :)

I applaud you - I do think that a spouse/partner can be too nice, too ready to be the one to make concessions. I've done that for most of our marriage and am just darn tired of it. I hate to say it and I thought I'd be the last person to ever do it, but I've moved to the guest bedroom. I have sinus problems and do snore - I understand it's irritating and aggravating, but when I wake up to my husband very hatefully saying "would you just shut up!" in the middle of the night, it doesn't make me feel warm-hearted towards him. I'm the type to hear the snoring and feel grateful that he's home instead of out in some bar. I've been cheated on and when he was caught (his ex-wife/2-night stand was threatening to tell me), we discussed it for about a month and he decided he wasn't going to talk about it any more - I guess that according to his reasoning 4 weeks of talking equalled 2 times of cheating. Who knows! Anyway, I'm doing the same thing as you and kind of doing my own thing (unfortunately one of my own things right now is trying to find a job!). I was happier before him but I've got all my money tied up in this house and land, and I'm unemployed right now. I'll get it straightened out and then me and my cats are outta here! Good luck to you and you might find too that you're happier on your own (if I ever get rid of this one, I figure I'm too set in my ways and will just stay single)! Also, thanks for not taking my original post personal - it sounds like you're one of the guys that "gets it" regarding attention and priorities and that's great to know you're still out there!

@JSTB - Your comments asking whether the writer was actually doing things to be attracted to (hugging, non-sexual touching, paying attention, putting wife before family, putting wife before blended children in family, etc.) is a very good, important post. The relationship between the H and W must be one where H puts his W first! While reading JSTB's post, I heard my name being called in there - been there, got that t-shirt - and found that indeed, I was doing the correct thing for each of the suggested concerns. I always put my wife first - though she would say never. I always consulted her for big and small decisions - though she would say she was never consulted. I always treated all the children the same - and in fact, my wife actually complained that I treated her children better and more fairly than my own. Eventually, I recognized that NOTHING I did was done correctly from her viewpoint. So, I asked her to leave, filed for divorce, and am now waiting to finalize it.

So, late last evening I had to arrange some travel for my son (not her relation) on Southwest airlines. I needed his travel award number. I had asked her for the number, and she had given it to me. We are divorcing, so she should be expecting I will be changing access to accounts along the way, shouldn't she? In any event, I changed the access to the account to my phone and e-mail, etc. fro what had previously been hers. This morning, she calls at 6:00 am., irate that someone has possibly hacked his account, as she received an e-mail from SWA advising of the change in account access. I told her I had changed it. Instead of, "Gee, thanks! I won't worry about your son anymore" or "Oh, o.k.", what I instead got was a thirty minute haranguing about how insensitive I am, how difficult I am, how I never listen, how I never do things her way, how she never thought I would even remember to make plane reservations let alone take care of the details,how I am such a poor communicator, etc. etc. to the point where I wanted to vomit.

Hell - if she wanted to control our lives, she should have participated during the marriage, instead of waking up during the divorce to recognize she actually was married to someone with competence, caring, and love who had just reached his - and the family's - limits. Interestingly, her own child wants to live with me and my son so there is some sense of family, sense of being loved. It is sad and hurtful for all involved, but sometimes it really is the woman's fault (or to be more accurate - sometimes it really is the unloving cold fish spouse's fault - and they often figure it out when the realities that they have been left behind start crashing in).

I am not sure what to say to this besides, maybe there is something going on that she is not ready to talk about. Or, just maybe she was tired. But because you live there with her, you need to assess the situation, figure out when the distance started happening. You want to rule out any possibilities of something you may have done that could have turned her cold. When I was married, the worst thing my husband could do is to not acknowledge me until it was bed time. I am not saying that is what is happening here but he could not understand why I wanted nothing to do with him. It took a toll on me and I started to feel as though I was only good for one thing with him. Your situation may be totally different. What you have to do is to find a good time to have a conversation with her, let her know you care about her feelings and you want to know what you can do to get the two of you back where you used to be, head over heels in love with one another. I pray you find peace in your relationship.

Lat, unfortunately I do think there may be some of that, and I don't mean this to sound either better or worse or as if I'm somehow not 'normal', but the fact is sex to me is closeness - its expression. I crave that ('sexless marriage') - While I know there may be the possibility of seeming singularly focused on sex, and the chance that it may somehow be a turn off, fact is its just the way I'm built - always have been (I was in 3rd grade when I first asked a girl to go steady - went 'steady' for three years :) ). When I moved from Jersey (where at the time 'steady' was one step before marriage) to upstate NY (where you went steady with three diff people in one day) I 'dated' over 20 in 7th grade. While I'm sure some overpaid psychiatrist would have a field day with me, declaring I'm making up for my own self-image, blah blah blah... it is what it is. I've tried to be more affectionate without sexual overatures, but found myself DYING to grab her, then cursing myself and coming to the realization, 'this is my wife for Christ's sake!"... If I can't be affectionate with my wife, what the hell am I doing. I know all the above would make it fairly obvious the answer is I just move on, but for some stupid reason I'm driven to hang on... like it's all right around the corner and tomorrow will be a better day. Logically, I know the odds are against it, but it is what it is...

thanks for the thoughts :)

@ Kalvin Weaver - good strong advice. If you truly love a woman, and if she simply will not be a friend, lover, and good support, give her what she wants and set her free. You are loving her enough to give her what she cares for most - television, computer, children, whatever distraction she has that prevents her from loving you. You are worth loving. Don't forget that.

Unless you just enjoy living a life married to a "vacancy", unless you have children who definitely will need you there since their mother is vacant, get the heck out. You are far too young to stay in a sexless, loveless, dry desert of a marriage. Let me assure you, once you have liberated your spouse to the mindless drivel of her television, you will be inundated with sexy and available women!

Take the reins in YOUR hand! TELL her in no uncertain terms that you expect her to perform her wifely duties with pleasure on a regular basis. If she has medical issues (and she may if she is similar in age to you - menopause has likely corroded away her sex drive, and medical treatment may help restore it) then help get them fixed. If she refuses, take the next correct step and leave her behind! Split the sheets and live free of the burden of knowing you have an anchor rather than a life partner.

Oh, yeah - that's gonna put her in the mood alright! The words every woman wants to hear - either put out or get out! All that is is blackmail and lacks anything and everything that makes for a happy, available wife! Do you not have any common sense that tells you that is NOT the way to go?

Don't care for women huh? Don't see them as buddies, companions, know, those who are your equals and whose character and choices you can respect. Just tell them their place and let them cater to your superior status.

I normally try not to be this aggressive but your position is offensive to me. You must be terribly lonely. No female friends.

Hey alpha, thanks for all the great women that had the sense to turn away from your BS. A lot of them are my friends, a few have been lovers; and the best among them has CHOSEN, OF HER OWN FREE WILL, to stay loving and liking me for 44 years.

JSTB - NO, this does not put her in the mood. And it is not intended to. You apparently have no idea just how difficult the sexless marriage is for the partner shut out, frozen out, and ignored. Finally taking the reins of one's own life and explaining to the cold, uncaring spouse that you are moving forward - with or without her - sometimes causes her to open up. Usually not. Usually it is met with disbelief, derision, and finally, death of the relationship anyway. A slow, pecked-to-death-by-ducks kind of death. One in which the unloved spouse is made even more useless than before. And for you to call a firm stand "blackmail" is stupid. The finally acting unloved spouse is not blackmailing. He (or she) is just doing what in many cases should have been done years or even decades before. He or she is simply standing up for themselves, explaining what is happening in clear terms, and then ACTING! Blackmail would be whining around saying, "If you don't do this, I am thinking of doing that . . . "blah blah blah. I do not advocate ever negotiating with the unloving spouse - the unloved spouse either acts or stays put.

@ Kyosaku - You misapprehend. I love women. And frankly, women love me! I am addressing my missives to the unloved spouses out there who see themselves trapped in a terrible mess, who are unloved, who are ignored, who see no way out of this, who stay in bad sad marriages for months and years way past when any rational person would have long ago split. I never advocate being an *** toward anyone - but I do say to my fellow brothers (and sisters) that there is a much better world out there if you finally stand on your own two feet, make a plan, and then execute your plan!

Sometimes the simple act of making a plan and then acting creates an amazing effect in the marriage - the unloving spouse wakes up! She (or he) has gotten into a rut. She cares whether her marriage is any good, but does not see that she has substituted television, computers, children, her friends, endless chores, surgical room cleanliness, or a raft of other ills for the simple love one should have for their spouse. And for the acting spouse, sometimes this is the first time since the marriage that they have actually stood up and been a man! That can in itself be arousing for the don't-touch-me partner.

Listen, in this story, the unloved spouse simply meekly went along, likely did not do any pre-party warm up, no simple touches, no help you with the dress, nothing. He may deserve the very treatment he gave out! But, if he is taking the lead (which I believe most men simply do not do), if he is loving, caring, touching, whispering, bringing flowers and out-to-dinner, if he is doing the things that almost always work with most people - and he gets the cold shoulder, "go do it with someone else, just don't tell me" attitude, and endless hours of watching them watch television or play video games on the computer, then it is time to BAIL OUT. Do it lovingly, but DO IT! Take the reins of your own life and spur your horse to the next level! Make a plan and execute! The only thing you have to lose is your boat anchor!

An eloquent clarification. Point taken and mostly in agreement. You are obviously not the troglodyte I assumed you to be. My apologies for my arrogance, and thanks for taking the time to make such a thought provoking argument.

angryguy77. I am not sure if your response was directly to me. My less than polite remarks were a response to pullatrainforme. His tell her to "perform her wifely duties," grates. I also have learned that it was misguide presumption with pullatrain. BTW, his response to me, may have something for you to.

I read your "Letter to my wife" story. I gather from that, that you have spilled your guts and she has chilled you out anyway. Your letter is honest and gut-deep; It seems an amicable and reasonable attempt to invite her to work through the problem with you, She has no reason to misunderstand...and, as you have described it, doesn't seem to want to understand. I am truly sorry for your loss, and agree that you should feel insulted by my comment, if you thought it directed at you.

I think I have a clue. Everyone's story is different and, while I understand the pain that is expressed, I also know that I have been more fortunate than many. My partner wants to understand and wants to work with me to make us better. We have had some very difficult times working out our issues with each other. It is just that we both wanted to, and neither of us became indifferent.

With respect, sorry.

Well angryguy77, your problem is definitely obvious! Yes, I do read the stories and try to give a good opinion. Since the stories are written by one person (duh!) and only show one side of the story, I do try to give another possible side of the story. If you don't like it, don't read it! I still don't think that telling your wife/partner to put out and like it is going to get you more action in the bedroom! You really do have an anger problem, sweetie, and until you get a handle on that, you don't need to question why you're all alone!!! Just stating the obvious!

pullatrainforme I do have an idea how hard it is to live with someone that is cold and uncaring. But it doesn't have to be solely in the bedroom. It can be in all facets of everyday life. When you give a reassuring squeeze to your spouse's shoulder and feel them tense up until you take your hand away, it just makes another cut that hurts. When your spouse wants to go visit relatives all alone, there's another cut. It's not right no matter if it's in the bedroom or not; at one time both partners loved each other enough to marry (or make a long-term commitment to each other) and they should have enough respect for each other not to treat them coldly. I have seen 2 marriages where ultimatums were given and the spouse that was on the receiving end decided to end the marriage (when all was said and done, both partners were happier). I agree that a person cannot stay in a relationship like that and applaud anyone who moves forward and gets on with making a good, happy life!

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I am sure there is more to the story than this but If it was me yes was a romantic night or what YOU precieved it to be but did you do anything else when you got home or just expected to get it? Sometimes we like a little bit more. Maybe you could have tried going after her in the closet and helping her romantically out of the dress or just anything. If she just wasn't interested then it is obviously her loss.......because I totally agree with you it sounded like a perfect to her don't give up it might mean changing your tactics with her.

That doesn't seem like much of a friendship, much less a marriage.

The longer this continues, the more intractable the problem becomes.
The situation will change when your dissatisfaction/discomfort becomes greater than your aversion to change. At that point, the 2 of you will work on the problem, or you will start down a new path.
The other choice for you is to accept the status quo, trudge along and every day lose a bit of your soul.
At this point, the only thing you are sacrificing is time. I believe time is most valuable commodity we have and shouldn't be wasted.
The choice is yours, but you should make a choice, choose a direction.

l will say it are already on the computer so just go over to and type in
MarkGungor. Watch any of his videos and I bet you'll be signing up to watch his show for free. So many topics all discussed with such knowledge! Give the videos a go and who knows!....Maybe your lady will watch a couple with you!

Another great reason for being on EP - super suggestions on things that may give me ideas or at least a new perspective. Thanks Mharris!

I was in a marrage for 34 years just like that. One night, after being rejected, I got up and started getting dressed. When she asked where I was going I said, "If you don't want it, I'm sure there's someone out there that does." She replied, "Oh don't be like that." and turned over to go to sleep. A few years later she questioned me, I told her remember that night, well I did and have been ever since. She got mad, slept on the couch, then the next night I received the best sex I ever had. For two years it was great, then slipped off again. I'd load up my bank account, take all I want from the house, then leave. If she loves you, she'll ask you back. Kalvin aka_Kobra

Kalvin - there are too many stories about the way you handled it for there not to be fire in that smoke somewhere ('moving on' attracting them back). I just know it has to be genuine. I'm sure she'd smell a fake a mile away. Sometimes I almost wish I'd hit that 'screw this crap' breaking point so I could feel the self-justification that comes with it. I know I should have had enough to feel it by now... I don't know - I guess just not at my breaking point yet, but i think I'm getting close. Challenge here is I know damn well when I hit it, she's going to be all over me. I need to be able to so resolute that it won't just be another 'break' from the norm, you know?

No fire, just money. I made 150k a year, nice home, cars the works. She only cared about the money. Kicked me out when I lost my job, divorced me. Then visiting a friends church one Sunday, feeling like the lowest creature on earth, I broke down and prayed for myself. That afternoon and old flame contacted me on facebook, we got together the next day and have not been apart since. The love is incredible and everyone should feel this at least once in your life. A week later a guy from Houston called, got me a 80k job in Denton, Tx. I've never been happier. Life is too short. Talk to her, let her know you love her, let her know your intetions, but if she dosn't return the favor(s), then go find someone you can love. They are out there looking for you. And when you find her, she will say, "What took you so long?" Kalvin Weaver

Your story, and all the comments, make sad reading. Of course I would like to say something that really helps you, but that is not likely. Regardless of all the advice and sympathy you are getting, it's up to you in the end to make a move to get things how you want them.

It's not clear from your profile whether you are married, but you say "not really a marriage", so I assume you can get out of it without too much difficulty. Are there children involved? If not, my advice is to find a more suitable woman. Your story makes no mention of children or babysitters so I am thinking you don't have children.

At the age of 60 I got divorced after 25 years of my second marriage and raising children with her (I'm a bit kinky and she is very straight), corresponded with many penfriends I found in a contact magazine (no internet then) and eventually married a southeast Asian woman 28 years younger than me. Now I am 82 and she is 54 and we still have good sex, it varies of course, there are times when she is rather unresponsive, and she is never initiating it boldly; but in general our sex life is as good as most couples', perhaps better. As is usual, our marriage has its ups and its downs, but I have learned not to get too worried over apparent disconnects and simply carry on. Things right themselves, in our case. We have a child, now a teenager; I always fancy the young, attractive women that throng the streets and markets of our town, but despite possibilities have not taken another lover. The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, but I don't want to jeopardise what we have.

I can imagine it may be very difficult to get your woman to discuss your troubles, and if that's the case I believe it would be better, if practicable, to jump ship and find another more reliably to your liking. There are such - as witness the women who have responded to your story with little stories of their own sexual deprivations.

Keep us posted as to any developments, you can message me on here I think ,,, if you feel inclined.

Thanks Clam - you're right on many points. I certainly take responsiblity for this and getting out of it. It does help to get all the comments though - not from the wound-licking 'poor me' side, but because just in the last month or so since I joined EP, there have been some really insightful comments that have genuinely caused me to reconsider several 'beliefs' I held. Thanks for the comments.

It's a passive aggressive thing, in my opinion. Story of my life. I didn't get married and agree to only have sex with one person, only to sleep and be alone night after night year after year, and to be turned away when I need it. No sex, no contract. Withholding sex from one's marriage partner is abusive and cruel. Never having my needs met, even after asking, begging, reiterating, threats - nothing melts that cold heart - THAT'S abuse.

And another thing. Marital sex is not rape. I say no all the time and mean yes. I want my man to alpha up and work for it. Pity he never does. To each her own. Who is the dominant one in the relationship? Everything is about who is in control and who isn't.

If a woman wants to be controlling and withhold sex from her husband, then cry rape when he tries to take it, what the heck did you marry him for? Money? Control? .... gasp .... Love?

She got changed in the closet because she's angry and you don't deserve to see her naked. You WANT to see her naked so she's withholding that pleasure, too.

Don't expect to pay attention to her one night when you might want sex, then blow her off the rest of the time. As far as I'm concerned, the TV should be thrown out the window.

Its interesting that you brought up, "who's dominant". I am sexually, but she's got my emotions wrapped into tight knots and basically controls me through them.... so does that mean I'm not dominant? Not sure. To me, emotional control is the greater of the two.

Dominant and submissive are roles. They are also quite fluid and shift around in different situations. There are a lot of sorts of intimacy that require mutual validation and mutual vulnerability.

You are conflicted here. You want her to understand and respond to your romantic/sexual attitude the way you want. When she keeps her self to herself, you will not force yourself on her.

You may have missed an opportunity to deepen your relationship by discussing your conflicted feelings. It starts like this, "I feel confused and frustrated, when you (describe behavior). I would really like to understand what feelings you are having, so that I won't make assumptions about your feelings."

Resolving conflict is a very important part of intimacy. It is a delicate process when you love someone and don't want to hurt that person. It is also a learned skill set. Drives my spouse of 42 years crazy...I don't let the elephant in the room rest there for a minute.

This must be a difficult thing to live with.

Taking lovers is not the answer; that 's just cheap, tacky sex.

You say she gets changed in the closet and I wonder if her self esteem is poor about her body image, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

I do think you need to think back to your courtship days; flowers, weekends away, a text during the day. It doesn't have to be something twee and soppy. a simple text ''Just thinking about you are you doing ? I love you. ''. will suffice . A text to say to say how lovely she looked the other night in that dress and you are still thinking about her in it.'' ....... Make her a cup of tea!

I hope you resolve this as it must be painful for you both. If not some relationship therapy may help.

Thanks for all the ideas, Soggy - don't mean to sound fatalistic about new ideas, but I've tried those. Txts ended up being just another source for blowing me off. They'd go unanswered. When I'd ask if she go them, she'd say she was busy. I pointed out a few times it takes 1.3 seconds to simply write back, but then gave up quickly when I realized, here I was demanding she txt back - how stupid.. how degrading. That idea quickly went out the window. Flowers? For a while I'd clip a few off our rose bush in the front and leave a single one here and there .... nope. Tried music at dinner.. etc. I'm a hopeless romantic at heart, so there's no end to what should be beautiful, subtle gestures, etc... they simply don't work. Thanks for the thoughts though :)


I'll be thinking of you all over Christmas time especially. It will be a tough time ahead. I do pray each day and you will be there on my list.

Sooner or later we have to accept that somethings come to a natural end. It woud appear to me without knowing the details that you have lost her trust or she has a poor body image.

Either way, it takes careful handling. Enjoy the season as much as you can . She is probably hurting just as much as you are love.

There are many lovers out, why get attached to one.

Perhaps yu need to ask her if she understands her OWN wants, needs and desires and IF they incorporate you, as she also needs to understand you wants, needs , etc..... but dont take her for granted, tell her yu love her morning AND nite . . and MEAN it!

It's a very hard thing to cope with. Maybe next time, try putting on the romance charm, and tell her you want to make love to her, at a romantic moment during the night, before you get home. Good luck!

Not much I can add except my sympathies and hopes that she will open up and tell you what's wrong. Try just holding her and see how she responds.

Thanks Crafty :)

My wife and I are watching

"Who Wants To Be A Millionaire"

while we are in bed.

I turned to her and said,

"Do you want to have sex?"


she answered.

I then said,

"Is that your final answer?"


she replied.

Then I said,

"I'd like to phone a friend."

That's the last thing I remember

That is very funny. ROTFLMAO. Thank you for sharing.

The book that you absolutely MUST read is called THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES by Gary Chapman.
Also...I stumbled across this WONDERFUL speaker that you can find on that talks about this topic and soooo much more! His name is Mark Gungor. His topics are awesome and his answers are so to the point. It has helped me in my relationship and I'm certain it will help you if you give this one more try.

Thanks! I will check them out.

Excellent link, Mark Gungor videos are an eyeopener!

Yes that is a GREAT book!

At that point, you needed to take the lead, pull the covers off of her and simply done what you wanted to do. That's that. She needs to be made to understand how marriage works.

So, you advocate rape? Good to know. Congratulations - you fail at being a compassionate human being.

I think he was advocating taking control which many women are, very, very into. If my girl doesn't want to have sex and I do that, she does then. The idea is you are turning her on while she is aghast, with no time to protest. I know it could've been phrased better but I don't think he advocating rape.

This is utter garbage and is absolutely rape. Married or not, no means no, ********. I am sure she understands that sex is part of marriage, but for whatever reason, she's not feeling it. She could be depressed, have hormonal problems, or myriad other problems. All you can really do is either be patient with her and try to understand what she's going through, have an open relationship, or leave. Never force it. Ever.

You're missing the point. If she protests I'm of course not going to just keep doing it anyway. I know from experience that if you go awhile without being intimate with someone you forget that you like it in lieu of staying wrapped up in your own head. Sometimes a suggestion a bit stronger than passively aggressively leaving the room and getting on EP might be warranted. Especially if one is posting in the "I live in a sexless marriage" portion. My girlfriend has been raped so please don't think I don't know the difference.

Horseshit it's rape, feminist. Secularists like you have to learn that marriage isn't some legal partnership contract; it's a religious institution that comes with a set of rules and guidelines. It's moronic thinking like yours that has made marriage nothing more than a battle of the sexes.

Marriage does not come with a set of rules and guidelines. You make it what you want. It is a partnership arrangement.
A couple make their own rules in the bedroom.
You can't show your partner how it works.
If you were my husband, you had better sleep with one eye open !

Yes, I am a feminist (your point?), though I prefer the term 'anti-sexist' as sexism is something men are subjected to as well. I don't believe in a battle between sexes. I am also a survivor of rape and will repeat: you do not push a person who (for whatever reason) is uninterested in sex, period. End of discussion. Some women, as well as some men, are submissive and like for their partner to take the lead, but the idea that -all- women are like this is a myth. If you care about fixing it, you talk to them. You vent your frustration verbally. You do not place blame. You talk through it and get over it, or you don't and if that's not something you can live with, you get out. Been in a relationship for 5 1/2 years, been through this, got over it because no one pushed. Leaving this conversation before my blood pressure skyrockets any more.

She would never ever want him again if he degraded himself by rape.

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What is her problem ? Maybe there needs to be an ultimatum. I mean you can't be expected to live like that very long.

That is very sad. I"m really sorry.

I got a lot of help by reading Married Man's Sex Life by Athol Kay.

I'll definately check that out. Thanks!

Wow...i'm feeling sad for you know why shes treating you this way? why doesn't she respond to you the way u think she should?

I have been there pal!
My wife went off sex for the last 15-20 years of our marriage.
Once or twice I was allowed into the place that made me happy but not hat often.
So I really feel for you my friend.

Why don't you just ask her why she doesn't want to have sex with you? Don't you love eachother anymore?

this is really sad and frustrating, hope you two find eachother again.

Not knowing the 'Why', even after discussion after talk after discussion layered one upon the other, is the whole obstacle to being at peace with it.

Thanks for your wishes, Val.

seems like it been going on for a while then, you cant keep doing to this to yourself tho. It's not fair to you.

I truly hope things work out for you!

My marriage was quite similar, for 35 years. Then, I discovered there were other women on the planet. What a time. Now, I'm back with the wife, but what a difference.

You come into this world alone and believe me when you leave you are's all a giant mind _uck

It is amazing how easy the person you love can destroy your confidence and tear you apart, by simply doing nothing.... Even worse is them not noticing/caring about your heart break!!!

1Lonely - that last part - not caring - is worse than the lack of intimacy. It's an added cruelty if it's intentional, and if unintentional, its a reflection of just how little you matter. Toughest part.

Being rejected just weighs on someone. After multiple tries and no progress I'm scared to try anymore. So the days just go by. The problem is when you're not having sex you tend to think about it a lot. And it's the elephant in the room in the relationship. I'm starting to think he may be gay. I'm honestly so sick of thinking about it I might just go out and have hot sex with a stranger.

I feel exactly like you minus the last sentence.. We've been together for 8.5 years, married for 5.5. When we were engaged is when he suddenly stopped wanting I have sex with me.

Wanting to**

I know. Sigh. There is such a distance when two people that love each other are unfulfilled. Sex for me has a lot to do with feeling emotionally connected. I have thought about having an affair but I feel this would leave me feeling even emptier. I want the man that I love but he won't go the distance. I feel that although we may be close, we are so far apart in many ways.

The gap in our relationship has gotten bigger and bigger.. I still have the hope we can bridge it.. But so far what I see says not.

When you are getting it you spend far less time thinking about it..when you're not it becomes all consuming...I know that feeling.
What you said about being so sick of thinking about it reminded me of how i use to feel....I got to the point that I felt like saying to my husband...." I could go to a bar right now and **** the first guy that even speaks to me "..But that is not what i needed . My husband was the only man in the world that could give me what i wanted.

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Sounds like my husband. He is so emotionally with drawn. We have been married fifteen years. I feel he is just being lazy. Says things to me like he loves me, and doesn't want to end ouR marriage but doesn't want us to be emotionally intimate. What is that suppose to mean.

Emotionally intimate or physically intimate?

Sounds like my husband too.. Downright depressing.. Only I wish he was just apathetic.. He either gets mad at me or acts like I am a chore for wanting him. Breaks my heart. Every. Single. Day.

Sorry, hon - it does suck.

It really does. Sometimes I think it's worse for girls with men like that, because the stereotype that men want sex all the time. But then I realize I'm a moron, cuz it doesn't matter who or why or when, rejection and feeling unwanted is just horrible.

Oh, believe me - if your a man it adds a totally different twist to the pain. You're supposed to be the swash-buckler, the 'stud', the one that a woman hangs on - the rock-solid anchor. Rejection becomes magnified through a lens that you're not "supposed" to have as a man - emotion. Particularly in my business, men kill things and blow them up, they don't weep in the garage at 1am from unrequited love.

But with women the pain is insane because as Solonely put it, there is the stereotype about men. So women's friends don't understand and they offer useless advice that you try and it gets you know where. Then you start to keep it to yourself while the pain and rejection eats at your very core. Then you find yourself over a decade later questioning everything. You keep this dark secret because no one gets it....unless you are lucky enough to find EP and realize you are not alone!!

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Baby, grow some balls and just take her!!!!

Oh good lord, sweetie... you don't think I've tried that!?!? You know what a mood killer it is (and how fast the mood is killed) when they are apathetic? I wish it were that easy... or at least she was :)

Thanks for the 'take it' order... I've complied, Ma'am... no success.

Hmmmm... well you could try that approach with me and I guarantee it would work :P xoxoxo

Haha... thanks!

Many guys have been there and had that happen. Just don't do it again with her.

women are turned on sexually more mentally than physically. when they are in a content relationship their desire for sex is higher, i know because i have experienced it. im not sayin its something ur doing wrong or not doing at all, but try to stimulate ur wife mentally by doing the small things that may seem unimportant to you, complement her, tell her you adore her, massage her feet, its the silly things that gets us going after being in a long term relationship. we don't want to feel as if we are stuck with a bunch of recurring problems and issues but we want to feel rejuvenated and intrigued sometimes even finding out new things about our partners that we've known all this time

Your first point is what I really think is going on. She's not a b***h... it would be too easy to walk out if she was. Frankly, I honestly don't think the love is there. I've approached her with it.. she swears it is, but I just simply do not see it at all. We talked about maybe there being a medical issue (hormones, etc..) but she won't even go the emergency room much less volunteer for a non-emergency check up or tests... Thanks for your thoughts though, you are absolutely correct about the mental part - but not sure that's what I'm looking at.


I can relate to most of what all of you have mentioned above. I just turned 60, my wife is 53. I have been retired for about 2 years now, and have projects and interested to keep me busy. My wife still works, and has some long days every week (12 hours), and is very mentally and physically tired when she gets home on most nights.
She still is a very devout christian thru her church, and goes to bible studies, etc., and I do not do that. I have not been that close to religion since I was in high school, and I grew up thru the Catholic church.
Our intimacy started to go seperate ways about 3 years ago, when she came out of most of her menopause symptoms.
I have a strong sex drive, and need relief, so I have become used to my own sources for that relief, and I dont think she is aware of it.
We talked about it a couple years ago, and she knows how I feel, and when I show her intimacy in many ways, she accepts it, but wont do anything to me in return.
So, I am staying with the marriage, but have become a strong flirting person whenever I am out in public. There are lots of ladies that I have met, or come upon, that are over 40 and into their 60's, and they are great looking ladies, and have good personas. So I am flirting with them on purpose to see if any of them likes me in return.
One has to have an outlet for feelings, mental, sexual, sensual, etc. and when one does not have an outlet, one seeks other sources, whatever they may be.
Yes, I do know what your talking about, cause I am living thru it too.
I do believe that is why a lot of people, men and women both, become attracted to and involved with another person, cuz they want and need that outlet.

Been there, done that my friend. A bazillion times. My solution? It's sad, but we go out and party with friends, she gets a bit more than tipsy, and then she's more pliable, so to speak. Hey, at least it relieves the physical pressure, if not the emotional, etc.

What's wrong of her is to leave him hoping and guessing. The man needs sex. If she won't go along with that, she has to talk to him about it. Maybe they can't continue in a relationship. If they are married, quite frankly she has some level of duty as long as he is doing his part in the relationship. There are so many things men do for women, things that are taken for granted nowadays.

Is she having an affair?

LetsSweat.... Really... I'm not sure. I don't think so.

Your wife might have issues that you aren't aware of, such as not feeling well, not feeling sexy because she is older, heavier, etc. or she could have issues with you. (nothing is sexier than a man who helps with the housework regularly, just 30 minutes a day makes a wife feel like all the boring stuff doesn't have to be done by her) There is a good older book out there, 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus' that is very helpful in understanding the opposite sex and how to better communication. The premise is that many communication problems arise from the fundamental differences between the genders. It is well worth taking out of your local library or buying it from amazon for $16.50. This book improved my marriage a lot!
Don't let this continue without sitting down for a talk when both of you aren't tired or hungry. And if you can't resolve it on your own... please go to couples counseling with a cognitive therapist. Your marriage, your happiness and your future together are worth it.

" nothing is sexier than a man who helps with the housework regularly"

I've heard this bullshit so many times it makes me want to puke. You think thoseof us who are here and have been in this situation for 15+ years haven't tried helping out around the house?

Well, welcome to the true reality of a long term relationship. Not to sound harsh but just wait until you both have old bodies and you look back and wish you had done it more when you were young and hot !! Soldier on bro....

You think both of them will look back wistfully? Guess again.

What do u mean by that?

One of them will not miss passing over youth and life at all.

Ulae, too right. The refused will miss it all the more (and beat themselves up for not getting out sooner), the refuser probably won't even notice the difference in the old bodies at all. My wife likes the lights out in the bedroom and always averts her eyes when I'm naked - like she's showing me respect for being caught in an awkward situation! Hell, I'm married to her AND I'm a nudist! Anyways, I digress. Those that aren't receiving the intimacy they crave are also missing out on being with a hot and young body. 2X worse.

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It's heartbreaking to read this. I feel like I know your pain. I'm not married, but I've been in a relationship for almost 5 years. The first year was great, I felt like a teenager again and we couldn't keep our hands off each other. Now, we won't have sex for months at a time. I've tried to talk to him about it on numerous occasions, it almost always ends in tears and promises to do better. Now I've learned not to expect anything to come from the talks. In fact I don't even bring it up anymore. Which is sad because I know it shouldn't be this way. I love him, I mean it's not always been easy (he has betrayed my trust before). I feel terrible for feeling this way. I feel terrible every time I bring the issue up. He claims he is very much attracted to me but I don't feel it. It's a sad day when you realize the thing you want most is less than a foot away but at the same time millions of miles away.

I couldn't have put it better. I'm in the same place. The talks don't help..they just bring up a lot of emotion and leave me feeling guilty. And thinking there may be something wrong with me..that's the worst part. The only thing on my mind now is if we can't work it out maybe it's time to part ways. I'm so heartbroken about this.

That's what's really horrible and why I simply can't stay in the same room when she does this. I told her about the '1 foot away' thing... Oh well... ho-hum... no reaction.

Honestly, sometimes I think it's a little of the "It's good to be queen" thing going on, and I'm the joker who can be dismissed with a wave.

Good to be Queen, dismiss the Joker. Too close to home there. She used to say she liked my sense of humor. Not anymore. Eye rolling and sneers. Great. I find humor in everything in life. Just not her.

All of you folks have to take the following decisions:

1 i have only onevlife, can i live like this forever? (No)

2 how will it impact others? (Eg kids)

3 do I deserve better? (Yes, everyone deserves rich love)

4 do i have the courage to make the change. (This is the big one)

5 what will live be like after the split. (Sexually no eorse. Practicasly? Each persons situation is different so you need to decide this one.

I know how you feel. I have been there. Read my profile maybe it will help. Good luck

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