Getting To The Real Problem

Thanks vaguestbaby, We have known one another a very long time here on EP and both of us and our partners have done a lot of writing. Rob has told me more than once that he is about a year ahead of me. I agree. Rob has set up strong boundaries concerning his children and it would literally take a miracle for him to establish and have any sort of contact with them. The rejection on their parts has been so hurtful. Rob is finished. He finds peace in this. His grandchildren will remain strangers to him because his children chose to use them as pawns to hurt him. He is wise enough not to allow this to continue.

I, on the other hand, was softer as there had been no blatant writings of rejection from my two until my granddaughter was born. Hope, that four letter word, still existed. All that I have gotten from her birth is hate and condemnation from my daughter. I believe this is my daughter's own self loathing and pain, thus my battle.

My son however appears to have advanced and accepts me and Rob as a couple. Asked me to give his best to Rob in our last phone call. A work in progress and I am gun shy but willing. He and his wife called me at the hospital voicing concern and sent lovely flowers and a gift basket for Christmas. Efforts and conversations. Respect for me and my husband. Huge! Happiness that we are settled in Florida and even inquiries if I will continue my art career? Interest in me. In us.

And then there is my daughter and her husband. Absolutely no concern for my health. If I am still alive? Just a snit because my husband called my daughter by her brother's name when he called her. Rob was terrified as my kidneys were shutting down. I was out of my mind as massive infections had attacked my body shutting down my renal/digestive system. Critical for two days.

Vaguestbaby, the worm has turned. I went back and forth in my head after SIL called and the only feeling I had was anger. I am still angry but this is being tempered by reality that I am only wanted when SIL reaches his end of coping. I am no one's savior! How dare he endorse the filth and lies that my daughter wrote to me more than once and then expect me to fly in like some hero and make this mess right!

I do not blame my severe health problems on them but my doctor, who knows the situation, warned me in no uncertain terms to eliminate stress from my life and not fly to save anyone from their problems! I believe her. My life with Rob is sacred. I pledged my life to Rob and I owe it to me and him to protect myself health wise and emotionally.

I am still angry at them but there is now a coldness connected with my anger. I am starting the disconnect that Rob has felt for a long time and I find this a comfort in many ways. It did not have to end up like this but I am getting to the point of not caring. In that way I am changing, vaguestbaby. My transition is well on its way. Rob understands this. I understand this. My family are those who love and support me in spite of my failings. To them I feel love. And they say that my failings are only in my mind and not in theirs. Peace and gratitude,D

Again, as with Penelope's kid, if they drink the kool aid and join the insaniac secret society, you gotta gently tip toe away -even when there's plenty of blameless tragedy in the mix. You can't spend your life leaning into punches.

We too find it painful to draw a line, partic when the kid has real needs that we could help out with. But as with yourself, being a nice person has only worsened the situation.

It's very hard to do, but getting hosed by liar-losers is hard too. Hey, pick your hard thing.

Like say, Sammy? Being an inchoate rageoholic who types his little thing and then hits send with a sneery flourish? It's gotta be hard. @ssholes have crappy, hard, pointless lives.

Thank you for all of the comments. As for my karma Sammy? I have thought a lot about this. I realize that harboring negative thoughts towards others goes against who I have been for all of my life however I am still angry. I will work this through and perhaps eventually let go.

In some ways I can give my daughter a bit of a pass. She is living a life consumed with worry and guilt for having a severely ill child. At the age of 38 she got pregnant and refused genetic testing even though her doctor told her the consequences that childbearing might bring to a baby. She and I had discussed this previously and she was pro testing because putting an innocent baby through years of surgeries and impairments was preventable. Her **** of a husband decided to bypass testing because in his words," How could a woman decide to end a pregnancy even of an severely ill fetus?". The words of a man who is barbaric in my opinion.

My granddaughter is immune compromised. At risk of stroke and will never speak. Perhaps never walk. Has constant life threatening infections and still needs open heart surgery and has a great chance of not surviving this operation. She has spent her life so far in constant pain. At nine months cannot crawl or sit up and lives through tube feeding and a trach. Has constant nursing care and has been hospitalized more that she has been at home. The toll on my daughter has been soul crushing and my heart cries for them both.

Anyone who refuses to have testing to see if a baby will suffer like this is a damn fool and incredibly selfish! And then to have this ******* pull his crap on me makes me so angry

Maybe this is at the center of my anger? In a previous call he told me that my daughter is pregnant again because he thought it a great idea to try and have a "normal" child to combat the "disappointment" of my granddaughter. Just what my daughter needs. Another baby when her life is consumed with hospital stays and the constant fears and pain of her firstborn.

This man is an idiot! My daughter has allowed herself to be completely be taken over by a nutcase. Her choice but I can see how skewed this marriage has become. Many times he has boasted, "I am the person who speaks for my wife" and thus this nightmare that has infected all of the family.

I used to believe that my daughter was at the center of our estrangement but now I know the tail who wags the dog. This knowledge is something that I am still digesting. She has turned from a strong independent woman into his puppet in many ways. I know she owns her choices but his constant control and P/A attitudes are leaving their marks. He has alienated her and her brother and his wife. He speaks of his family as nothing but ******** but I have met them and they are quite pleasant and always kind and respectful to me.

The knowledge that my SIL condoned and helped draft the incredibly hurtful and attacking letters from my daughter to me and also the fact that he dismissed my serious illness as nothing tells me and my husband all. At this point, I have lost my daughter and granddaughter. Her choice but also a man who slowly alienated my daughter from anyone who could have given her strength. He calls when his arsenal is empty and he is frightened. What he always does and I refuse to play his sick game. I must take care of myself for me and also my dear husband.

I feel as if I am between a rock and a hard place here. I am aware of who holds the playing cards in my daughter's marriage and also her relationship with me. I have to leave this on a wait and see position but it is so hard. Rob bought me a photo frame for Christmas and loaded photos onto it. I have many pics of my son and his wife and my grandson. I have one photo of my granddaughter. Her birth announcement and when it comes on the screen, my heart breaks for her. This sweet little baby who lives a life of pain and illness and I feel so helpless. They wouldn't even allow me to hold her when we drove up to Pa. March 2012 but I did get to stroke her sweet head and cheeks and whisper "Grandma loves you". This is so hard. A pain I live with everyday and distancing myself from all of this is incredibly difficult folks. Peace,D

As always I get good answers here that we both relate to. On Sunday the SIL calls chastising me for not being in touch with them. He knew and she knew that I was in hospital in critical care because my husband called my daughter.My daughter was rude and said "so" and then had to go.From SIL I get this chuckle with "I heard that you were sort of sick".He knew by text messages how critical I was. It was his usual mind game playing for his amusements. This call came weeks after I was discharged and back home. What pissed me off was his insinuation that I could have been in touch more.I was in critical care and could not even remember who I was for over two days. His wife blew my husband off when Rob called her frightened that I might be dying and
neither of them responded as to whether I was alright, critical, or on my way out. I made a call. My husband called. Two text messages and all messages unanswered. .

I heard his voice and got cold. He fiddled around a bit as this was a new woman he was unfamiliar with. Then I proceeded to let loose as he was so upset that they had no support system. No friends or family and their daughter was once again back at Children's and very ill with a virus. I feel heartbroken that my sweet granddaughter is facing so many health issues. however I was told by my daughter that I am not allowed near her as I am such a bad person and may physically harm this little angel. More than once I have been labeled unworthy to even live and when I pleaded for pictures and physical updates of my granddaughter, I was threatened with court proceedings to prove me an unfit grandmother.

There is no way that my daughter will ever allow me to be a grandmother to my granddaughter. This took going back and forth since last March 2012. We spent a great deal of money on things she demanded and also because we wanted to contribute as grandparents do out of love and joy.

It took us a time to recognize their game plan. We only were contacted in times of crisis. The good times where I could have spent cooing and playing with my granddaughter were denied me because my daughter was always "so busy". Boxes of sent gifts were not acknowledged unless I got forceful about this. Not one photo has been received even though I begged for some.

I told my SIL that Rob and I would have been a wonderful support system but we were told that we were not wanted! That all we have been is jerked around over and over and that we will not play this game any longer. I also told SIL some of the hateful words my daughter has used towards me over the years such as " I hate you, you MF ***** and wish you would just die".This one was when I asked her to clean her items out of the floor of my barn as I had fallen and hurt my back trying to retrieve art items. That hurt me a lot as I was doing her a favor so that she didn't have to pay for a storage unit.

I did not tell SIL everything that I could have but I gave him somethings to think about. I did tell him that I kept her horses and fed and cleaned them while she was in college. Paid all vet bills in the $1000.00s. I did my best and I am now done. I had a twinge of co-dependency the day after his call but it went away quickly. I offered that the hospitals have counselors trained to deal with stressed parents. He was not interested.,Geeee!!!!

I also told SIL that I have feelings too as does my husband and ours are as important as anyones. I asked him if he had read the foul crude hateful letters that my daughter has sent to me and he responded, "Yea. So what?' This was when I totally lost it with him. I had to hand the phone over to Rob and then Rob said to SIL, this is a bad time. We will be back in touch. Click. SIL said nothing.

One huge problem in their minds is that they are aware that I am back in touch with my son, my daughter's brother, and his wife and their newborn son. This is like night and day. Calls to see how we are doing and flowers to the hospital. Photos of the baby and updates. Gifts acknowledged and a lovely Christmas gift from them to us. Messages and genuine concern.

Both my daughter and son could act this way. It is all about choices and some of the kindest parents have ill children. I love them all but I will not be manipulated, put down, or degraded by any of those people that I am or could be close to in this life, folks. It has been another enlightening and eyeopening time for me. One that makes me stronger. For this I give thanks even though the process hurts at times. Who said life was easy? Peace,D

First off, much, much support and empathy to you as you work your way back to health. Keeping on breathing must be your #1 priority for a while.

I believe your daughter does love you, but simply cannot stop hurting you. On this board, we are all stuck with some very crazy people who want (need) to endlessly punish the very people who loved them the most, who sacrificed the most for them.

We are always a million percent right in stepping away from the constant poisoning that these sad rageoholics insist on inflicting.

I was reading the bio of the great singer, Judy Collins, today and she spoke of her aha! moment when she realized she had to stop being an alcoholic. She said, "I wasn't drinking because I was sad, I was sad because I kept on drinking".

And so it is with our many passive aggressive tormentors. They are not acting out so cruelly because they are crazy; they are crazy because they keep on insisting on acting out. They will not be denied. I hold them all 100% responsible for their pointless savagery, but there is that same OCD, addict, circular non-logic to their twisted mania.

We don't have to wish them into hell; they are already there.

Let me cheer you up with a bit of our own misery while you lie in bed.

Penelope loves to bake Christmas cookies with her nieces; her daughter has ruined the last 2 cookie days with her passive aggressive poison (making big messes, insisting on cooking other food, starting snippy fights, going on draw-opening spying missions for daddy -and on and on).

After promising to "participate joyously" per Penelope, this year she pulled out all the stops and did a passive aggressive ruination of Penelope's simple good deed that was worthy of Jim Carey in The Cable Guy for sheer demented, 'can't really fight with it' meanness.

"What?", she asked innocently, "Can't you even feed me lunch? You're sort of my Mom, you know -at least when you feel like it".

I simply fled, but me holding my tongue while my wife is abused is not good for our relationship. The kid loves to demean her mother in front of me and/or any other witness at hand. Later on as the kid batted away Penelope's attempts to reason with her, I pointed out that the average kid on planet earth feels terrible when their ill mother suffers -and that the kid was smiling -at the absurdity of Penelope's "over-reaction", at the absurdity of her having any purpose at all beyond utility-drudge or punching bag. "Keep on smiling", I said cheerfully. She denied she was smiling at all.

So like you, we're going to gently and non-punitively step away in 2013. We forgive, but will no longer lean into any more punches. Reconciliation efforts are her responsibility, not ours.

Or yours in your deal.

Love ya, from day 1, D. Stay strong.

I am happy for you that you have survived such a horrible illness, and sorry for your pain. I agree you need to give your relationship with your daughter a rest, and put it behind you. But stay open for reconciliation, because there is always that chance. But don't hold your breath either... you are right to concentrate on those who give back to you at times of need.

Deathly illness, or the death of someone close, has a way of abruptly clarifying priorities.

Dartist, take good care of yourself and regain your health. I know you have a good and loving partner there who will care for you too.

GOOD TO GET THAT OFF YOUR CHEST.

I'm glad you made it! Scary stuff.

so say we all.

Toxic relationships suck the life from us. Literally. I had something similar happen. A week in the hospital on morphine brings things into perspective. Keep that fierceness alive.

d'artist, so very sorry to hear how seriously ill you were. and that you've been treated so shabbily by some.

glad to hear you've come out the other side.

keep kicking toxic people to the curb. you'll be healthier....and all the happier....for it.

xo