Refusing Wife, Just Some Thoughts From The Other Side...

I been thinking lately about my situation and being on this site. I really do not belong on this site if I seek approval or camaraderie, but that is not why I initially posted here. My story is I was the one who you would call the refuser and did not meet my husbands needs. I always tried to make sure our sexual relations never went over a two week period. I mention this to say I don't think we actually fall into the definition of a SM, but for what my husband 's desires were compared to mine it felt like a SM to him. My other stories explain a lot about how I feel about this and how I failed my husband. I admit my fault and take my blame in all of this, even his affair.

What I been thinking about is conveying some of my feelings about what our marriage was like and maybe what i thought it lacked from my point of view. I have not done much complaining or explaining my side or how I felt because I feel like it is very minimal and compared to the life I have lived and they way my husband treated me over the years I almost feel like I don't even need to bring it up or say anything. It seems very trivial. The reason I've decided to explain some of a refuser's points is because it may lead someone to conversation with their refuser if something sticks out about my experience that relates to your situation.

Please understand when I say this, and I do mean it out of sincerity from the bottom of my heart, that nothing I am going to list or talk about is an excuse for refusing intimacy with your spouse. I'm even embarrassed to list anything it does seem trivial after all I've learned about how I've made my husband feel. I know many of you are going to put the screws to me so to speak and let me have it and that's okay that is part of this process for me. I also get how many of you are suffering at the hand of someone like I once was. I am trying to take in the full scope in understanding what I have done and how it has hurt my husband and our family. I take as much blame and responsibility as he does in his affair if not more.

I have been thinking and my husband knows all of this, but none of it matters to him at all. I'm not saying he should be oh, poor wifey, look what she's had to endure. I would just like a little understanding too and acknowledgement or sincere consideration in what I dealt with also. We had a super life together other than our sexual relationship because of my low testosterone and a screwed up mind. Every other aspect was real good other than I did want him to go to Church with me. Here are a few of the things I think should have some kind of merit or weight concerning my side somewhat.

During my 20s and all my 30s I suffered from headaches about half the time or more. It seemed like it was everyday to me and it was a lot days I suffered bad headaches and neck pain also. This runs in my family, headaches, migraines. I never really thought it was migraines I thought it was stress related due to my job and I'm sure that had something to do with it also. I never tried to get help for this just road it out - why? I don't know! It never occurred to me to get help my mother never said I needed to get help she suffered with them too, but it got better as she got older. My daughter has them too many times a month sometimes it down right debilitating. She's already been to her doctor and a neurologist by my advice to her. She's gotten some migraine meds that helps when she needs it, but that kind of kicks her butt to when she has to take it. A dark room and no noise is what it would take sometimes. I still have some but not near as many as I use to and they are not as bad. I go to a chiropractor and he has helped me out with the headaches and even allergy sinus junk. Everyday, or a lot of the time, when I would pick our girls up after school, when they were young, they would ask me "mom, are you headache woman today?" Isn't that sad. They knew when I had one I was a grump and no fun. ;-(.

There were a lot of things that I didn't notice or pin point about my own body and I never recognized a lot of what was going on. I always had bad "times of the month" it was bad the week before and the week of. I had PMS and all the crap that comes with it mostly 2 weeks out of the dang month. Some women do this and some don't have it as bad. They now have a name for it PMDD or something like that. My daughter has the same problem and I told her to talk to her doctor about it and there is a medication that can be taken only when needed during those two weeks if it gets bad to help with all the symptoms. All the symptoms that make you seem like a ***** during that time. It's a real condition and it is not fun for women it sucks. It is not that we just want to be mean or a butt head. I and my daughter are different the other two weeks of the month. I don't have this 2 wk thing like I use to I received help within the last 7 yrs with medication and its made me more tolerable and more myself. You don't want to take a bunch of medication, but when I look back on it I wish I had if it would have helped me. I have also been on birth control since I was 19 yrs old and I still am. I'm am pretty sure that the BC was a huge culprit in my T levels being low and therefore low desire and arousal. Got help with that about 3 yrs ago with T cream and its made a huge difference for me, but my level was real low. I had planned to get my tubes tied after my 2nd daughter, but I didn't have an epidural during the birth and my normal doctor wasn't there so I didn't get it done. Reason was I had my first daughter c section and had a bad time with that and I wanted to get to fully enjoy this baby without pain and restrictions. I couldn't even sit up and hold my first one, had terrible pain. I waited up til 2 am in the morning to hold my 2nd one and feed her and have a good experience. When I think back I wished I had the operation and had my tubes tied. It might had made a difference in my T level after getting off BC, possibly making me have the kind of desire and passion I had before I started taking birth control. I also suggested to my husband to get a vasectomy and that wasn't perceived very well. Hmmm wonder why. JK. The moral here is I would go ahead and get off BC If you can as soon as you can and it might be just what a woman needs to get her mojo back - may not be either though. It would have been worth it to me for sure. I didn't want to be a refuser who in their right mind would unless they were just plum mean.

I'm not going to into a huge paragraph on this many are familiar with all of this all to well. I was a working mother, worked full time until they started going to school then I worked til 2:30 and sometimes brought work home. I had all the same responsibilities as every working mother does. My husband was good to help me especially when they were younger. Daily you would have school, work, then home for supper, homework, bathes, laundry, bill paying, ball practice for two almost daily and year round they both played on travel teams too it was a lot, taking my girls to church by myself, and on and on and on. I admit I was tired a lot and when you put no desire or no immediate arousal with that it makes is triple hard to come alive. Now with the desire I have and arousal at the sound of his voice it is a lot easier to respond and want it too. I have a lot more time and energy now than I ever had and our relationship is in the dump right now, it stinks.

I do want to mention a few things about romance and men. When we dated, and this was 15 yrs old and on steadily, he made me feel like I was the most important person in the world by wanting to share and talk to me. Caring about me, my day and my dreams. I did the same too making him feel loved and wanted. Then when we married as they say thing changed on both sides really. I was not as loving and affectionate as he had hoped I would be. He tried to do what he could to get me to love him in this way. It was a struggle for me from the time we got married on. Sex that is. I wanted him so bad all the time when were dating and the only thing I can go to is the birth control and low testosterone levels. This may not have been it, but I think it was the majority of it and my crazy mind regarding sex. As time goes on he gets more frustrated with me and then in return I get frustrated with him because he is now not fulfilling my needs either because he is ticked about me turning him down and then the dance begins. His no. 1 need is sexual fulfillment I know this now and mine was communication and honesty and just talking to me showing interest and also I enjoyed being with him doing activities. So it got to where he didn't really talk to me with interest like he use to. The romance faded as it always does. Do not get me wrong,my husband was good to me, always has provided and given me more than I needed. He has been very thoughtful at special times giving b day, anniv, and Christmas gifts. That is why I feel bad even saying anything. I did want the date night though and time alone with him and we didn't get this at all after our 1st daughter was born and it was our fault. He says after time he didn't want to be with me going anywhere cause he was frustrated with me. Our whole lives though, he didn't want to go anywhere with me alone or take me out and make me feel special. We had a few movie or dinner nights and when I say few I mean very few and I always felt like he didn't want to be there. We have only been away once over night without our kids. It was a surprise valentines day weekend I surprised him with steak dinner, chocolates,
Champaign, massages, whirlpool. He was about half mad when I surprised him he doesn't like surprises, I do, and he finally caved in and had a good time. I soooo wanted him to take me somewhere just the two of us and he never did. I even told him when my mom passed away after fighting leukemia and it was an awful terrible fight and very traumatic to please just take me somewhere just the two of us. He said he would its been 11+ yrs and I have yet to go anywhere with just my husband. Guys I don't know about your wives, but I like to be treated like the girlfriend every once in a while. Not the wife, but the girlfriend. Mentioning this made me think about telling him that if he had communicated with me clearly and had treated me and spent the time on me that he did his mistress wonder what would have happened to our marriage and what that would have done for us. I know if i had been loving and affectionate what that would have done for our marriage too, it would have been awesome. We were getting ready to enter empty nest soon and we should have sit down, been honest and discussed our future and what we wanted and needed from one another and talked about our problems.

A lot of what I have said above does not even come in to play in my husband trying to understand and even give me partial credit in our lives and what has happened. I know he is resentful and angry, but I've done my best to understand his thoughts, affair and even his strong feelings for another woman. Is what I said above to you unworthy of thought or consideration In all of this? Idk maybe it is, I don't think so though. I'm not asking for all of this to make it right, because it doesn't, but I think it should be considered.

Don't know of this will do anything or help anyone. I do appreciate your putting up with me on this site and I do appreciate all comments because I do put thought into and read each comment whether I totally agree or not sometimes I see things in a different light. That is kind of what I'm hoping to do is shed a different light. Thanks for listening!

46-50, F
14 Responses Jan 2, 2013

I saw your post on my story, so I took a shot and read what you have posted here. It is a LOT of information. Our situations do have a fair amount of similarity except that my wife doesn't take responsibility for my indescretions--she just blames me for them. In her mind, right is right, wrong is wrong, and that is just the way it is. In my case, there was PPD after
our first son was born, and it lasted about 6 years. Horrible situation, and neither of us knew what to do. Things went downhill from there, and have not been repaired yet. I don't know if the marriage will continue, but I hope it can. However, my wife doesn't do that flirty stuff you are willing to offer your husband,...she just waits for me to make moves, and whether I can deal with the rejections that are still forthcoming is the big test. I am working on the last months of whether this works or not. I am coming to the end--decision time.

Anyway, that is about me...

I can't even imagine what you are feeling in all of this. I would think the overwhelming feeling is one of regret, tinged with sadness and deep sorrow. I speculate there have been tears--a LOT of those. You feel a lifetime of sorry has come full circle--realizing now you have built this life with a man, only to find out after all this time the damage that was ocurring as time passed, and you were unaware of it until horrible consequences blossomed where flowers should be blooming.

I understand your husband's feelings VERY well. He feels frustration, regret, and anger. It probably isn't a hot anger that explodes all the time,...but a seething rage that sais: "I could have had a happy marriage and life. What I got was cheated." Now, whether you consider that accurate, or whether you believe he is justified with feeling this way isn't the point. I speculate that this is what he feels.

Several people will say: "How DARE that man feel cheated! He is the CHEATER!" Yep, those feelings are valid,...but what does he feel? Why, with the changes you have made, doesn't he just dump the woman and turn his full attention back to you? Because there is damage in him. He is hurt.

RRRW, I commend you from the bottom of my heart for your INCREDIBLE empathy and understanding. Your desire to forgive and seek forgiveness is immense. Your desire to repair and move forward is like fresh air and sunshine after a long dreary winter. I do believe that spouses who refuse hurt,...really hurt,...their mates. And, when their spouse takes it outside of the marriage, the blame hurts doubly bad. There are a lot of women who have the attitude: "Sex is important to you. It is not important to me. You will be faithful to me regardless." That is a slap--a SLAP in the face that happens every single time a man has sexual feelings. In my marriage, I feel bad as a person just because I have sexual feelings in the first place. And, my wife blames me because of it.

But, you are different than that. You DO care. You DO show empathy for your husband. He messed up big time. He might not be done messing up. But, YOU are working to do what you can to heal the marriage. Honey!!! GOD BLESS YOUR EFFORTS! I wish,...honestly,...that you can heal this rift. It is a big one,...but there is hope because you have brought it.

Keep posting. I loved reading your story,...not because of any morbid desire to feast on other's sufferings,...but because of the tenderness that was expressed. It made me feel a tenderness as well,...and that was a good feeling. Thank you for allowing me to have such feelings and to see tenderness and honesty at work.

Thanks for reading don't know if you actually got anything from it or not that you haven't already thought of or tried. How do you get your point across to someone who thinks they are always right? To someone who will not look in the mirror and admit their faults. See that was me for years thinking there was nothing wrong with me. That I was normal. I thought that was the way it was supposed to be. I knew he wanted more sex and I did think it was a just physical need men had more than women. Someone made the point that what difference did it make if it was a physical need, it's still a need. Good point and true. If it was important to him I should have been making it my priority to find answers to help us. I didn't realize that it was so deep, emotional and the way he felt loved. Writing that sounds so stupid I know. You're thinking how on this earth could you not realize the importance of this act. It just didn't mean the same thing to me, but if I had realized this was the most important need my husband had I should have been filling that need. The needs theory never crossed my mind until I read the His Needs, Her Needs. I did know you should make your spouse happy though and that's what would have topped his life off with a cherry! We had a good life and all was well other than in the bedroom. He thinks he communicated his feelings throughout our lives, but he never was direct and never told me how miserable he was. He never opened up to me, just one liners or a short conversation. I hate the fact it took him screaming and telling me with anger and frustration to the point of possibly no return to wake me up. Its sad. You are right on in the way I feel. It's been the most devastating, heart wrenching thing I've ever been through.

Again, you hit the nail on the head on how my husband has felt and feels. That is one of the hardest things for me is how I let him down so bad and I can't fix it or do anything about it. I agree he got cheated by me and I cheated myself too. People do think that of cheater and sometimes it's a repeat offender cheating and a serial cheater and that thinking is for this person. What my husband did staying with our family and being such a good father through his misery is admirable and I honestly share the real truth of our story to everyone kids, sister, sister in laws, mother in Law anybody close and some not so close. It is hard for them to understand and they say they understand that I had a part in this, but there is always a but. They do not think he should have had an affair that he should have done the right thing or took the right path. That was no excuse to have affair nothing justifies that to me. This is the path he would have recommended and suggested to a friend. I do too; I wish he hadn't started an affair before he blew up on me and shared is bottled up anger and resentment. I think the outcome would be so very different and he would be very satisfied and happy with me. He hasn't been with this woman now since somewhere around May 2010 as far as I know. I know he's talked to her from time to time since May 2010. Not happy with that, but I have no control over that or any of it really. One thing I will say is I would warn anyone thinking about an affair to see the caution light way ahead because if you have been starved and are vulnerable your feelings will be so tender and the attention will be like crack cocaine to you. If you are going into it like no strings attached think again you may just fall in love with this person and you may not want that to happen and complicate both of your lives. Whether its true love or lust crack love its still heart wrenching. Especially if you are not planning on leaving your spouse and the other person might be married and they have no intension of leaving their spouse. Then there you are right in the middle of major trauma, drama and terrible heartache in so many ways.

You do not need to feel bad at all that you have desires and want your wife! She shouldn't make you feel that way. From where I am right now I think she's the one that is wrong. In fact I know she is regarding this subject. You sound like a caring person and you still want a good life with your wife. She does not realize what she has, that she has the chance to change your lives for the better and have a marriage. If she doesn't there may very well not be a marriage. I wish I could go back to that point so bad. I hope and pray there is something that stirs in your wife to show her what she is doing and what she is missing. If she doesn't she may end up like me and be in a heart wrenching situation that there may not be a happy ending and a happy ever after. When I married him I married him for life so this is devastating.

Thank you so much for your encouragement and kind words to me - it means a lot! You truly are right on the money in all you have said.

You are welcome. Your gratitude is kind and warming.

You said some things about not being able to control or change him. I read those words carefully, looking for a sense of codependency. I didn't see any of that from my reading. You have certainly done a lot of work, taking responsibility for what you have control over, and letting him own his junk. That is commendable.

Hold your course RRRW. IMHO, you still have the possibility of a happily ever after. Your husband might come around.

Just for your information, are a VERY unique woman. Most women blame their husbands if they step out, and I think that generally that is unfair--not to excuse the man, but because marriage is suppose to protect against affairs.

You mentioned in another post something indicating a religious basis. I agree with the religious aspects of "affair proofing" your marriage. When one spouse ignores the needs and wants of the other, it opens up wounds and vulnerabilities. Then, when "temptation" comes along, the environment has been built, preparing the "hungry" spouse to have his or her mouth water at the offerings. Your husband is unjustified in his choice,...but had he had what he needed at home, he would have been less vulnerable to take the steps he did. A friend of mine once said: "A well fed dog doesn't roam the neighborhood looking for food." How true.

Anyway, nuff said. My advice now---hold your course, and forgive yourself. You appear to be doing EVERYTHING you can. Now, be kind to yourself. Love your husband with all your heart--do what you can to encourage and win back his love--but be kind to yourself in the process. The same God who taught through Paul about not defrauding your spouse so they are not given to too much temptation,...well, that same God did say something about forgiveness.

Thanks again for your incredible courage. You are a rare and priceless person. Believe it. It shows.

Everyone's thoughts are worthy of consideration. Someone with physical or severe emotional limitations is in a different category as far as I am concerned. The only physical problems my wife had as far as sex was concerned developed due to years of not having sex and they could have been overcome if she was willing to work at it.
You probably could have tried different things medically but you did have things to overcome that most people do not have to deal with. In my case I never cheated on my wife until I realized I had to divorce her. We had many other issues other than the lack of sex. Even then I did not date a woman until we were separated for about six weeks. For me the issue was more the rejection and her unwillingness to deal with the issue than with just the lack of sex.
Good luck to you in the future and thanks for sharing so openly.

Thank you for taking time to comment. I agree about everyone's comments are worthy of consideration and each one I receive it makes me think whether I agree or disagree. I honestly think the rejection is the most hurtful and I understand that now. Honestly I did not know or think it was that mean and hurtful to him. Sadly, I admit that since it wasn't the same for me or one of my most required needs that I didn't realize the devestating, humiliating impact rejection has. That was very, very selfish on my part. I know now though! I did not want to hurt my husband so deeply and cause so much anger, despair, and frustration.

It is so hard to see your faults and your shortcomings and admit you have things that need changing. When a spouse points it out, most of the time, it's taken as criticism. It's really hard to convey to a loved one in a loving manner what they are lacking and how they are failing in your marriage and then get that loved one to respond in kind. I wish that there was like a 3 year checkup required every 3 years for every marriage to check in and survey how things are going and what needs to be worked on or changed. There's a lot of change through many years of marriage. I wish you all the best OmyTVC15!

You've run into the abusive Vaguestbaby. He lives a fanciful life of self-denial. You had the temerity to challenge his simplistic assertions and at the drop of the hat got to see the 'other face' and got a gob-full as a result. Just ignore him. Once his latest partner is something less than sweetness and light and not his psychological/emotional slave he will abandon her at a drop of the hat. He is pathological and predictable.

Whether what you tell yourself is true or not, is a fanciful self-fabrication, or manifold excuses or has some element of reality to it only matters to you as of now. What I, or others think is of little importance or relevance. Just be brutally honest with yourself. That is all that matters. Honest self-awareness, warts and all are just fundamental to everyone's very existence.

You are very right in what you say. I really don't care what others do think because I know who I am and what the truth is. I am very brutally honest with myself I try to understand, admit, and work on my flaws and faults. We all have them and not taking any blame, not seeing both sides and facing your issues straight on will get you no where fast.

Thank you for you comments

I guessed that you were very immature when you entered into an adult relationship. At age 20, girls tend to view married life in the context of Cinderella; most are not ready for the intensity of a sexual relationship much less marriage. Healthy marriages are compatible on a sexual level. If they are not, probably this is an indication of a problem of a deeper nature. So my question for you is this: Your husband has decisions to make; these decisions may or may not include you. If he decides to leave your union, what actions will you take to grow as a woman?

Well, I don't think I entered into it thinking it was a fairy tale Cinderella. I will agree I was not ready like I should have been for an intense sex life at that age. We were both 20 so very young. I'm not sure about your comments a problems of a deeper nature if not sexually compatible. I think both of us have deeper issues that affected our sex life from childhood on.

You are right one of us does have decisions to make it could be me making the decision before him if things continue like they are because I don't know how much longer I can live this way.

I don't have a clue what steps I will take. It will baby steps, one foot in front of the other. I will rely on my family, friends and God to make it through and pick my self up and dust off because this is not something I ever expected. I thought we would grow old together. I am taking steps to grow right now so I might go have a set back if he decides to leave but I will make it.

Most so-called refusers have excellent and real reasons to refuse, are often well within the perimeters of normal physiology, and are perfectly within their rights. That does not solve the refused partner's problem, as I am sure you understand. I am convinced I was and am, up to now, a male with perfectly normal sexual physiology and drive. And, by definition, all women have normal sexuality, because all women are different. Just kidding. No, I mean my wife is indeed quite normal in physiology and drive, for a woman. And all that is no consolation at all.

Well, I guess some have excellent reasons, but my reasons are not excellent. Women and men both vary drastically in sexually desire both sexes it seems has plenty of both. From what I have noticed it usually is this way lopsided. I am sure there are some that are compatible and oh how lucky they are and they don't even know it probably, you know, that they are lucky. There were times that I wished I had the desire of other women. I could tell they were more sexual and had a good drive for sex and I always wished I could be that way. I didn't know about low testosterone levels and stuff like that. You are right it is no consolation, but I have tried to be very understanding and give the benefit of the doubt when I could and also understand my part in all of this. I just wish some of my lame reasons meant something to him. Like low levels he doesn't think that played as big a part as it did. It was mental, but it was chemical too! Thanks for your comments and I do get it is no consolation there comes a time though when you have to ask yourself is it worth it to continue on and try and actually try, or call it quits.

Yes, lucky people seldom realize how lucky they are.

In my experience here ulae most do not have good reasons

are there cliff notes to this story?


Well this was a defensive story I guess. It doesn't not make what I did right, it just gave me a chance to say hey I dealt with things too. Long story - well we will see? I'm long winded I know sorry. I need to work on making it shorter I know sometimes I go off in left field.

Bahahahahaha. Good one :-)

Good one PTI. Cliff notes Haha

1 More Response

Rrrw, thanks for popping back in, and for your reflections.

I'm wondering if you're considering justifications as opposed to what you will or won't do, what he will or won't do.

I live by what has to be a mutual action from us both, which is to help each other get what we want, with high priority; no exceptions. And if either W or me goes off track or doesn't understand, then I expect to hear about it, and I will respond - as I expect from her.

The advantage of this is that it is forward-looking as a model for what I will; and it is growing and challenging because by no means is it easy to know what another person wants, and be attentive to how that changes over time.

I've found it more productive than looking back at past hurts or focussing on what's wrong.

You are right. I am so ready to move on from the past I truly am and I could if my husband could forgive me and move on too. That hasn't happened yet, maybe it will and maybe it won't. I will do everything I can to work this out and I want to focus on the future. I want to be the wife I know I can be to him. The big thing here is there is true love here. We were meant to be together I have never been surer of anything. Does my H think this idk? I agree with you that you should talk and stay on track if you ever get back on that track. :-). I have a hanging in my bedroom that says patience in the presence, faith in the future, joy in the doing and that's what I read when I need some encouragement. I do want to make my wrongs right. I know I can do it. I don't think I can I know I can. Thanks for input

I am certainly not the one to critisize, but sweetheart you are taking far to much of the blame. His cheating is a result of his own issues, yes they may have been as a result of a SM but geesh give yourself a break. I don't know where thing stand with the two of you currently, meaning if you are still together and miserable or if you have separated so he can be with his gf. Either way I just can not believe that you are blaming yourself and he is letting you shoulder the demise of your marriage. Hemay have been the perfect husband and father but something in him made it justifiable to have an affair. He could have left, gotten a divorce and moved on with his life, he chose not too, he chose to " show you" tells me he is a coward. Now I can say that having an affair is not Andean breaker if both parties are willing to work on the marriage and go forward as a union, together. But it sounds like to me he is still hanging around and making you live with the guilt of his affair and he gets off Scott free. Give yourself some slack, you are only human, you had no control over your body and it's functions! But I can also tell you on aside note that getting your tubes tied would not have helped. I had mine done 11 years ago and things have been worse since so put your mind at ease, live a happy life and look for the positive in your marriage and try to rebuild on that, if it's even possible.

I do believe there were several things that lead into him having an affair. This man was one that no one would think would do this not even him. I truly never thought he would go this route and I did think he would divorce me before ever being with someone else.

We are still together it has been 3 yrs now and we have had ups and downs. Right now we are on a down. He still is not certain of what he wants I think. He is having a super hard time forgiving me for failing him and it seems to me he blames me still for everything. Until he changes that thought process and take his blame like I have I don't think we have a chance. If he does and does decide I am the one for him and he decides to commit once again to our marriage I think we can make it work. We had and still do have a lot of love in our families combined and we have such a history and most of it good other than the sex life. History doesn't mean crap though unless he decides it does and until he decides he wants a new life with me. I told him I do not want the old life I want the new one I know we can have. I think he struggles with "giving in to me" kind of. You know like if i try and i start loving her she wins. I don't look at it that way, but he is a very prideful man. I also know he's scared I will fail him again I'm sure. I think the affair messed him up so bad in sooooo many ways. It does everybody you just can't imagine all the repercussions of an extramarital affair. OMG!

He does and has realized, at certain clarifying moments, that this doesn't justify an affair and that no one should be put through that. I truly think he is in a mid life crisis and was not rationally thinking. He has never been selfish at all and boy he did the most ultimate, selfish act you can. I know refusing for years is also selfish, but truly it doesn't not hit some of the nerves that an affair does. I did not lie to him, deceive him, sneak around on him, make a fool of him as he did me being in the same gym night after night with this woman. I did deny him his number one need for many years and there were countless rejections and I do know that is awful torture and it has had a devastating effect on him. As a result, our marriage and our families have suffered at Both our hands. I really know the pain I put him through, but I've been through some too.

I really appreciate your comments and reminding me I am only human too. I really carry so much guilt and pain from my failing my husband, marriage and family. Thanks for mentioning the tubes tied too, I go back and second guess everything I've ever done. I do believe you are right it is possible to rebuild, but we both have to put the past in the past and forgive and he's not done that yet. I truly can and will if he can. Thanks!

You are very honest and genuine - both things that are deserving of praise. It is sad that you and your husband have had these difficulties - and even sadder that this is such a common story.

I think many women find it difficult to accept that their partners are not in the least romantic - and that they seem able to ignore the need their wives have for this sort of activity.

In your relationship, as with so many, neither of you has been able to meet the needs of the other consistently. This coupled with the many stresses you have faced has resulted in your unhappy situation. I am so so sorry. The only thing I can suggest is that you use the knowlwedge you have learnt from this (sad though it is) to improve your life in future situations.

You are so right enna30 it is so, so very sad. Never ever thought I would be in this situation. Looking back I should have realized it. It is a sad common story I just wish I could get to some of those young, in love couples, and give them our experiences we have had to help them miss that mine field. I plan to use this knowledge to the very best of my ability to make future relationships better and also anyone else I can touch and help, family, friends even strangers. I hope my future is with my husband, but I'm still sitting on that fence and he hasn't pulled me down on his side yet. So for now I wait, until I simply cannot take it anymore. I am truly struggling right now, but he struggled for years in misery and I always remember this. I can hang in there, I'm trying to, he did. Thanks Enna30

...Take it to a marriage counselor?

I would if he would.

Refuser or refused. I don't give a **** which you are. If you are in a dysfunctional marriage and want to do something about it, you get my vote.

Tread your own path.

You know, my once-refuser (it's never offered anymore, so he has no opportunity to refuse) turned to me a few weeks back and gave me an earful about how I don't pay attention to him the way I used to. Of course, there's barely a 'we' there anymore, so I basically gave him a response along the lines of "That's nice. Would you like something to drink?"

In our case, I did continue to talk to him and try and show interest in all the things he'd told me he was interested in. Sometimes, it seemed that my interest was unwelcome, and we'd end up in an argument about me 'smothering' him. Sometimes it went over well enough, and we didn't end up arguing too heavily. Sometimes, after a particularly wonderful evening when we'd be getting along so well I could almost feel the old chemistry, I'd start to feel a little excited. After a long day/evening spent indulging him, I'd turn to him and get...shot straight down. It was the weirdest thing, too, because he'd act so upset when I did this. It was as though I'd betrayed him, and he'd come right out and accuse me of trying to get in his pants (which had suddenly become this awful thing). Not only that, but it seemed as though any good that had been accomplished by the activities/conversations/trip was erased instantly. It only took a couple of those occasions before I started pulling away.

Well he needs to realize he must not be giving the attention you need either or you would be giving it back. The put one another first comes into play here I think. Sometimes we get caught up in ourselves and don't think about our partner and that is the wrong attitude. How to get back to that put your spouses needs first I don't know. I had to be shook so hard my teeth have almost fallen out, that's no lie. It didn't take an affair honestly, but throw that in there and it really got my attention. Shouldn't take that but sometimes a good shakin is what it takes. Meaning make an Impression, if they love you they Will pay attention and change. My husband telling me he was tired and fed up and the real true gut feelings he had was all it took for me. Shouldn't have taken that, but it did. He says, he wished he had done this along time ago, tell me exactly how he was feeling. I wished he had too.

I know first hand how you feel by my actions to my husband and your husband needs to wake up. Only you know how far to push his buttons, but if the " old chemistry" is still there then there is hope, but he's got to admit and understand what he's doing to you. I feel the flirtatious chemistry with my husband at times through all of this from him too, not just me.

Your husband better open his eyes, get off his butt, and pay attention because you have already started pulling away and he doesn't know just how far he'll push you. If he loves you he needs to do something. Don't know how to tell you to get through to him, but I would tell him all of the above. I have lived it and I have experienced just how far I pushed my husband and it was over the dad-gum cliff and now that climb back up is excruciating and I don't know that I can pull him back up to me at this point. I hope you find a way to hit a nerve and I wish you all the best. God Bless You for having to endure this. It really is awful I know.

Holy hell, what a novel.

I'm not sure if you're trying to help or get validation or absolution, but I'm pretty sure the bottom line in nearly all SMs is this: It takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a marriage. So, if the two of you can't work together to make the marriage work, whatcha gonna do now?

I know, I write way to much. I think I'm hurting quit a bit and maybe that's why I write so much. I really am not trying to get validation I am certainly in the wrong group to get that and I am we'll aware of that. You hit the nail on the head it takes two to make it and break it. I don't know what I'm gonna do at this point. ?? Wish I did. I just keep praying and trying to do what God wants me to. It is very confusing to me sometimes I feel like I should stand up and say enough is enough and take up for myself and have some respect for myself. I am a strong woman most of the time. Mostly so far I have felt lead to hold fast. It's getting really hard though. Sometimes I wish he would come in and just say I am moving out we need to separate because he is not to the point of working on anything or putting any real effort in. I don't want a divorce and I will not file because of this, but I will give that to him if he so chooses. I do not want to go through another Christmas wondering what my new year will be like. It's my fourth Christmas and 3 yrs of dealing with this all. I know it takes time, but its getting close to times up. Good true comments. Thx

You have been very honest and open; I appreciate this so much. You are also brave to speak even though, you are scared that you might be attacked for doing so. Please know that I will not attack you--that is not what this is about. Although I have been the one who has been slighted so, we have different perspectives, I wanted to ask you about some issues: I wondered how old you were when you had your first sexual encounter, how old were you? The reason I mention this is because it seemed that your first relationship was with your husband at a very young age for a girl.

Well, we were boyfriend / girlfriend at a very young age. We started dating steadily at 16 yrs old. He knew how I was and I wanted to wait until marriage for intercourse. I thought that was the right thing and he went along with it. I will say though we came really, really close many times and did everything else, almost. He was my first kiss, it was wonderful! He was my first everything. I had no experiences other than with him. He is a good lover and I know this even though I haven't been with anyone else. He always wanted to please me. Head hung in shame I know. You asked how old I was we'll my first kiss with him was at 15 soon to be sixteen. We broke up at one point for two mos I broke up with him because he was telling me he loved me and i didn't know what love was and thought he just wanted in my pants. I had 2 dates kissed 2 times and knew what I wanted, I wanted him back. He dated a girl for 2 mos though and did get into her pants. I hate it, but I was no where ready for that. I was miserable my mother told me if you want him go get him and I did. I called went out with him told him I loved him and that was the start of our relationship. Dating I was h**** and wanted him had desire. Like I said you can pretty much say we did almost everything before marriage other than the final (oh, how can I say this) thrust. Blush, blush, see how I am. We married at 20 he worked nights so we didn't get started off well and it was pretty much a sexual struggle for him from the start I hate to admit. Again it was a least every two weeks but he wanted it 3 times a day.

I appreciate your comments and I get how people on here, the refused, could feel when reading a story like mine. If I was on the refused side I would roll my eyes too at some of my comments because I get how painful, insulting, demeaning, devastating being refused can be. How it can wear you down to insanity and make someone cold and hard. I do get it now. No consolation in that either though. Way to late. Duh.