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After the 500th time I brought up the conversation of the unfairness of this marriage she used a word that made me really think, "expectations".

During that conversation I asked her (again) why it was so easy for her to take from me, but so difficult to give back. Her answer was "you're a man and I have certain expectations of you".

When she said that I froze. "Expectations???" I asked myself. So I asked her to list some of these expectations so I may have a better understanding of where my shortcomings as a husband are. Like a grocery list of items she stated out loud what I should be doing for her;
You should love me for who I am (aka, I don't want sex so stop trying to get it).
You should pay all the mortgage and utilities, because she works hard for her money and she should be saving it.
I need to buy her presents more often, out of the kindness of my heart.
I need to take her out more.
I need to take her on another vacation.
I need to help her pay her bills.
I need to understand that sex is something she does when she wants.
And she continued for a while more. After she was done I asked her a question that completely set her off.

I asked, "what expectations should I have of you?" She responded by very angrily saying, "I am your wife and I love you, if that's not enough to make you happy then you're the one with the problem."

I sat there and laughed mockingly. I then grabbed my coat and went for a walk. I never thought I could be so bitter by age 26.
Knightinbrokenarmor Knightinbrokenarmor 26-30, M 95 Responses Jan 9, 2013

Your Response


Living with someone in love requires compromise. You 'both' should be in a comfortable place, equally loved, equally discussed. Sounds like she's not budging much by your comments. This will only lead to resentment. Work on it together. Love each other.

Those are unreal expectations. She is just being selfish and immature. Your relationship is going to get worse. What will it take for you to wake up?

Several folks I've heard mention a book about "love languages". Have not read it myself but from what I gather, it says that people express love differently. Some require actions, signs of devotion, some require words, others require physicality. These things fill our individual "I am loved" tanks. And when the tankv isn't getting filled, well its not a satisfying love. Sounds like may have different love styles. Perhaps the book can offer some objectivity perspective on the struggles facing both of you. Best wishes.

How long have you been married, Knight? Are children involved here? After reading her list, it seems to me that her demands and expectations are unreasonable. There are some women who get nothing ... and have come to expect nothing and yet function at high levels (not that this is right either.) I do not know what she considers love - but love is something you do ... it is a verb (a doing word.) Take it from me, do not stay bitter because you are going to miss out on many precious things. It is not what you had hoped for or even prepare for but it has happened and you have to find a way to deal with it, for your own good and welfare. Your situation can make you cold as ice but do not let it.

Wow!!! That is some messed up situation. I get where you're coming from and I'm kinda in the same boat. Our partners have so much expectations from us and walk around feeling entitled to you fulfilling those expectations. It should be both ways. You both should expect from each other and you both have to fulfill each other's needs. Sounds like she's being selfish, which I know all to well. You were right to walk out. She can't just dump a grocery list on your lap and not expect for you to throw one back at her. If she thinks that by you just being with her is gonna make you happy and you should just settle for that, she's highly mistaken.

My advice is to leave while you're young, get rid of that bitterness and get ready for the next relationship where you can feel equal in. I'm 26 as well and I feel so resentful towards this relationship I can't seem to get out of fast enough. We're not supposed to be bitter in our 20's, that's insanity. Untrap yourself and move on, however, if you feel it can work somehow then do stay if you feel there's a glimpse of hope in your relationship. If not, it's time to make some changes.

I suspect you already know that without a wonderful sexual "chemistry" it ain't gonna happen. Sex between spouses etc. can help us re-realize why we were in love to begin with. Where is the line between being stingy with sex and being just stingy? Marriage needs generosity.There has always been a discrepancy of desire in our marriage but,it has not been static. It has flip-flopped many times over the last 45 years and I admit when she wanted sex and I didn't it thrilled me to say "No". Yes I was an ***. Finally I decided that I did not want to live a life cut-off from desire. A wonderful way to hear "not tonight dear" is with her addendum "but let me give you a hand with that". Too great an inequality of desire may mean you two just aren't the right match. Good luck brother.

was my story helpful 2 u knight?

It was helpful, thank you. I know that there is a billion other woman in this world that would someone like me to care for them. And, your case only serves to reaffirm that. Good for you for finding true happiness.

thanks knight...hope my story gives courage 2 those who make the decision 2 be happy")

knight...i share your pain...i left my 1st marriage 17 years ago because she didn't support my dreams of becoming a screenplay writer....and this def affected our sex morning i woke up and said, "i want a divorce." ...she replied, "You're crazy!"...i told her "I have never been more sane in my entire life!"6 years later, i met the most beautiful girl in world online in a chat room....a Cuban American girl with a heart of gold...she enjoys reading my screenplays...supports most every decision i make, and our sex life is STRATOSPHERIC!so if you have 2 make a choice 2 be happy, remember my good decision changes everything")

That's amazing! I'm also a screenplay writer. The difference is my partner wants to support me in it, but I don't trust her reading my stuff. She is way too shallow, superstitious and would probably want to change my projects around. With so much tensions and rocky relationship, i haven't felt inspired to write, I don't even have the energy to write dealing with her everyday. I was supposed to go to school to better my skills in screenwriting, but that was placed on hold for her. I'm happy that you were able to leave that relationship and be blessed with a wonderful one. It made me laugh when you told her you wanted a divorce and she called you crazy and you made a combat comment I can't wait to spill on my girlfriend. I'm happy for you, congrats.

How do you get to that point where you believe you can do it on your own-that you deserve to be happy-when someone has broken you down, has affairs-blames you-and lies about it. I don't want to b intimate with him-becos I don't want him to touch me-I definately don't think he is monogamous, I have seen emails, texts, pictures to several women, and he says its harmless-there is always a story-and he keeps implying I am insane-becos I battle depression-I have had enough-but financial constraints keep me stuck-we have a son-I also have a mentally ill mother I am trying to get into a home-nobody is helping me with anything-im so overwhelmed

u just make a decision over...decide that u deserve happiness...let your heart guide the way!

yeah...after my divorce and i actually attended film that u mentioned that u placed your life on hold for her...hope she was worth the sacrifice...u must love her a great don't u let her read your screenplays? u really don't know anybody's reaction...look at my ex's response...she told me i was a terrible writer...only God knows my some mere mortal...haha")

When someone breaks you down-it takes a while to get to that point,but after 8 years-nothing has changed-I cant do it overnight, there are complications-but I know I just have to make it happen-can't do this for another 8

if you have children, that's a complication..otherwise, take a deep breath...and tell him what's in your heart")

3 More Responses

Wow... Your only 26? I am 21, and reading this I would have guessed you were more like 40 by the way your describing your marriage. I agree, she must be REALLY hot because I really don't know why else she would think she's the only thing that matters. If love should be enough for you, than why should'nt it be for her? Talk about reverse double standards!!! I consider myself a pretty attractive girl, but in a relationship your partner should always be equal to you. It kind of sounds like she's super comfortable belittling you, and thats a problem. We all have needs but she cant expect you to handle EVERYTHING!? Yes we all like to be treated like queens but a real woman will remember that no matter what we're still adults and have responsibilities too! Just because you happen to have a penis doesn't mean you should be picking up all the slack... When you guys got married you made vows to EACH other, not you to her.

i agree with u snickerdoodles...either u are an equal when it comes to sharing your life...or u get one should have expectations placed on them, except love")

<p>I am sorry but this is very funny.Your wife is either very shallow to make such statements without feeling it is rediculous or she was mad at you about something and did not know what she was talking or maybe wanted to irritate you and show you that you do not treat her right and she feels that the marriage is unfair from her perspective which is funny too because she impose double standards- she is a woman, therefore, she may make sex whenever she wants but if you refuse her it will be unfair; she can save her money but if you refuse her to spend your it is unfair and so on. Just it is funny and irritating at the same time.</p>

Wow! How old is she? 12? She must be really hot, because I can't think of any other reason why you or anyone else to put up with that, or why she would think anyone would put up with that. She needs to be knocked off her high horse. Truth! it is true that sex is very emotional for women. In other words, if a woman is angry or unsatisfied with their partner emotionally, you can forget about sex. More Truth! She is desirous of the relationship being almost entirely one-sided. I would definitely not ask for sex from her anymore and would occasionally throw in the comment about how you think this person is really hot or that person is very attractive. Change up the game. She thinks you need her. You're still young. You don't need her. Refrain from having an affair, but do flirt with other women when you're with her. In order to be happy, you're gonna have to do one of two things....either leave her and find a woman who appreciates you or administer her the big dose of humility she so desperately needs by showing her she isn't the princess to be worshipped that she thinks she is.

lija30 comments are promising.
You must take control of this marriage by speaking assertively to her expectations. Marriage is a partnership. You share responsibilities. You serve each other. You set goals together. You serve each other. You spend time together and then alone. You serve each other. Your wife is NOT the CEO of your partnership, CEO's run corporations. Marriage is a commitment towards needs-meeting until the death of one or both partners. When one partner fails to meet the expectations of the marriage, then there is a breach of contract. A breach of contract in legal terms means that the failing partner has become negligent and can be sued to dissolve the partnership. Get this! Don't let your conscious run your partnership. Apart from emotions, make your decision about your couple. Then, hold a meeting and discuss the options with your partner. Can she meet YOUR EXPECTATIONS? THE MARRIAGE'S EXPECTATIONS? Will you continue to meet her expectations? If the answer to any of the above is no, then you have a breach of contract. and author of Before I Say I Do

Life is too short to be unhappy. If you are satisfied with the effort you have put into it to change things for you to be happy, and it hasnt worked, leave. After all, with what has been said, is a complete 100% loving healthy sexual relationship possible with her.

Your response should have been... "HEY! That's MY answer! :-)" Seriously though if she thinks a marriage is you waiting hand and foot on her and her thinking she shouldn't have to do anything she has UNREAL expectations and based on her answers alone is a selfish, self absorbed, immature person who does not know what a relationship is. What you should do his come up with your own list of expectations and tell her if these aren't expectations she's willing to accept and happily meet then there's no point in continuing this relationship and you need to find a grown up who appreciates your qualities and she needs to find a sugar daddy that will tolerate her b.s. Of course that won't happen if she's not willing to perform when and how he wants.

Dump her. I'd have left my relationship a long time ago if I could have and actually if i get this job I've been interviewing for I WILL. Life is too short to be miserable so early in life. Cut your losses.

You're addicted to sex. My husband is, too. He began asking me for it, talking about it, asking why I wouldn't even during times I literally was battling with hypothyroidism, he was wanting it. I told him to go look for it somewhere else. I love my husband but I am no longer in love with him because he has turned sex into an obligation for me. That is what you've done for your wife. Her bills are probably your bills too and your just not willing to admit that on here. I would leave her just to give her a break from all your demands. If you want sex from someone who will give it to you because you make them then maybe getting a hooker every once in a while would help, better yet, go get counseling.

It's just too bad your hypothyroidism keeps you from acquiring adequate reading comprehension....

Mtiff I don't know what you read but why are you accusing this guy of being a sex addict? Did not only what he said but HOW he said it register? She gave a grocery list of what she wanted for doing ZERO and didn't give anything in return. Instead of saying he's a sex addict maybe you should just admit you are frigid cold fish. Project much?

I said that because it is in the group "I live in a sexless marriage." It's just my opinion, but when he said, "Her bills" I really did think something fishy was going on, though I wasn't thinking it was me. Also, I do believe my advice was sound. We are all adults here. I'm sure no one cares if he goes out and finds sex from someone else. It just doesn't sound like he cares about his wife much to me because he is slandering her all over the internet. All of this is just my opinion and I am no professional. I'm not sure what you mean by 'projecting.'

I'm pretty sure you slandered your husband by calling him a sex addict in your initial reply. Also, you may think that allowing your husband to sleep with random women and prostitutes is ok, but I don't. I didn't get married so I would have to find affection in the arms of another woman. Lastly, if you think wanting sex more than 2-3 times a year makes me and addict, then you need to get of this forum and go reevaluate your own marriage.

Ha. Love it.

She wants to "save her money" for herself and she expects him to pay all the bills with his. She is very selfish. It is OUR bills and OUR money together" She doesnt feel she should have to participate in the bill paying! amazing. If you loved someone and that person is your soulmate this alone could be a defining point in the disintegration of the marriage. for if she feels like its not a path they are both on together then she is not on board with what a marriage is all about.

Knigtinbrokenarmor you have done nothing wrong. You sound like a great guy. I have been married to the same man for 37 yrs. He is my soulmate. He treats me like a queen. We have sex all the time whenever we can. We dont have separate accounts etc. We are devoted to each other in many many ways. He and I respect each other. I would do anything in the world for him and he would swim through shark infested waters for me.

Dont listen to that babble she needs to grow up and be a real woman. I am sorry you chose wrong in this marriage. I hope you dont have any kids yet. Find someone who you can grow old with. She will just smother you and hate you the whole time.

It's not slandering what I did. My husband and I actually seperated. I didn't just complain. You noticed about as well as he did that I had a very real and serious health problem that he thought he could make better by having sex. The reason I talk about my story is because we are so past that phase. If you really knew what my problem was and what it is like to be with an addict then you probably wouldn't have remarked the way you had. I still believe your story is incredibly one sided.

While you have my sympathy for your health issues. Your circumstances do not in any way match my current situation. I have gone months without sex just because she was never in the mood. At the longest I went over a year without sex. So if you think that I wouldn't do the same because she had a serious medical condition then you must not know what a loving husband really is. Yes, I did complain and ask for sex, but I never forced her to do anything she didn't want to do. My wife has no health issues, I know this because I go with her to most doctor and gyno. appointments.

As far as the "her bills" comment, I love my wife, but I'm not the one that maxed out most of her credit cards. I pay most of the mortgage, utilities, upkeep on our cars, and groceries. We make nearly the same amount of money, so it's her over spending that makes it necessary for her to ask me for financial help. I'm extremely frugal when it comes to spending on myself, my car is nearly 10 years old ( I love my car😠) and we just got her a 2012 SUV because she was embarrassed driving my beat up truck. So I agree with you that my story is one sided, and I'm on the losing side.

no, just one who bugs his wife about it for the five hundredth time. I was just annoyed by how many of these stories reflect on whats wrong with the spouse because I see at least three stories from this group everytime I scroll the popular or recent stories for this site. I was wanting to add another perspective that I had not seen on here yet. I realize I was being offensive for calling him a sex addict. I'm sorry for that. I'm done with responding to anything from this group or otherwise I will just be repeating myself as I have nothing else left to say. Peace~

Mtiff, please read my story called "Young and sexless" and tell me how cruel of a husband I am.

If you love your wife and will not leave her because of this issue then you must just be without it. Youre a man and men need sex in order to feel love by ones spouse. About your bills you have to make decisions together. Its not he said she said. TOGETHER. Tell her you need her love. Find out what rocks her boat and do it. What is her story?

You sound like a prude! A rude one at that! Why would this man come on a confidential site and ask questions about how to help his marriage if he was going to lie? I am very curious what you consider "addicted to sex"? My wife has Hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) and she has not once used that as an excuse for lack of labido, this doesn't mean that it doesn't cause it. However, that's the same as assuming it does. Of all the women I've met in my life I've noticed trends. The women that are very hateful about men wanting sex usually have something to hide (I.e. an affair, abuse, gay tendencies), just something to think about.

10 More Responses

She is not worth your time. Get out and don't waste anymore of your time.

Don't just walk out. Get in the car and keep going. What a selfish C**t

Leave. Now.

Sorry you are finding yourself in this situation. Never feels good to not be appreciated. In my heart of hearts I believe love is so much more than gifts, vacations and money. I hope you find the relationship everyone deserves.

You're 26-get out now. I am already in my thirties, have a 2 year old son, and still stuck-2013 is the time for change-u deserve more

Dear Knightinbrokenarmor, my heart goes out to you becos my situation is so similar, and for me its almost like i don't feel worth it enough to leave-its a mindset that the people that claim to love us-put us in-but in my experience i think is more about control. I have been in this for 8 years, and the question I am asking myself is can I put up with it for another 8 - because what has actually changed? Perhaps this question may be useful

get out?

Get in your car and drive away. Permanently. No matter the other side, its not going to work. Can't imagine why you are still with her.

Your wife is cheating on you or you have failed to see whats going on. She is using sex as a weapon against you, and this is normally what happens when the man stops having expectations of his wife. I suggest that you tell her straight up how you feel and put her back in a womans place. Women always do this kind of game after marriage because they feel like they are doing everything and don't want to submit to you. I suggest you cut the cable off if she is a house wife because the women channels on tv just fuel this kind of behavoir. Now that men want different things sexually some of these woman are just too lazy and unattractive to do it. They blame everything but themselves for how things turned out. I think its wrong to use sex against the man unless he is totally not worth the time. You need to man up and get to the bottom of this and stop letting her treat you like a child. Have some expectations out of her, if she don't do her hair let her know that if she did something to her nappy head then maybe you would give into some of her expectations. Maybe if she did some or even half of the things you wanted then she would get more out of you. Also let her know that she doesnt have to threaten you either with no sex because if she is not going to communicate you on how to make things better then you will be sleeping with someone else. Don't beg her .......dont give in to her strong .........and let her know who is daddy in the house............

Wow. That's definitely not a give and take relationship. Sounds like you deserve better

That's total and utter bullshii!t . Talk about narcissism .. Tell her when did marriage become one sided. Please her and do for her treat her like a queen. Wtf I mean yeah being pampered is fun but if it's not reciprocated then what's the point..

Some of the responses below would probably have touched the points like whether was she like this before marriage... I feel your anger and frustration, you try to do you best to give and give and just hope she'll recipocate in return... saying things like "I'm your wife and I love you" may be "reassuring"... perhaps you should ask the feeling of love to be transform into an act of love. If she wants gift buy her "Making Love" by Dr Gary Chapman highlight parts that you felt important to you... If you have read this book you'll know what I meant :) If she even remotely loves you, one would hope she make some adjustments to accomodate that. Otherwise, cut your losses you're too young to be married anyway.

Okay you are me in the reverse. Except I was blindsided by the whole sex thing - that was good until a while ago. I pay all the bills, do all the work, and get no sex. It's no fun. But I am 43 and have two small kids. I hate to tell another person what to do, but if you can, get out. And if you can't, go find a couple women who will **** your brains out every chance you get and don't feel guilty about it.

I sympathise with you. No doubt your wife is selfish, but my question is - did she change once you were married or was she always taking from the relationship? What did you love about her to want to marry her? :-)

WOW, I say she seems to be a very selfish person and it is all about what you can do for her, this is no way to live, marriage is never all about 1 person. My only hope is that you figure out what you want and need out of life and go for it since she is only worried about her...

Oh man, reading this made me sick to my stomach I'm so sorry :(

holy balls, there is no meeting in the middle of this relationship - just meeting on her side :(

If you don't have kids, GTFO. If you have kids, you need to work it out with her for them. If you doubt me, read my profile & stories.

...and BBtwelve is right-there are incredible women out there.

If that is the sort of climate you are raising kids in working it out for the kids may not be the healthiest option for them.

Agreed-100%. But that doesn't mean don't try.

Make a list of your expectations.

Before you flat out give up trying harder (not saying you should) you should make a list/explanation. What you've done, what you received, what you expect of yourself/herself and the relationship and express the conclusions you've come to. Then, make a decision and stick to it. Counseling might be one answer, telling her you're sick of the hogwash might be enough...or maybe the answer is to leave. However, to stick around and suck it up is not the answer.

I think shes the one with problems. its unfair .though Im not married but I do believe that true love is not about taking ,its giving. sorry you r going through this. have my sympathy sweetie!

remind her that there are16 women to every man out there and you Need help To be strong and motivation to keep giving of yourself you need to be shown that the feeling is mutual to know that we are Going somewhere

That is astounding news from FRENCHTICKLER that 94.12% of the population is female.

You deserve better. Nuff said.

My two cents - Really she said that ? She is an unhappy person - probabaly nothing you can do to change her especially with an attiude like that at 26 , and I;m guessing you've been married just a few years ? Cut your loses and go ! There is another fabulous girl out there . She doesnt know how good she has it , but she will when you are gone.

you're too young to be so bitter, but we all live and learn. quite frankly i think the both of you should come to an agreement that would make both of you happy and that is probably a divorce. the chemistry at this point seems to have withered away, and thus the 2 of you need time apart. or you can use the list she gave you and try to come a compromise. this is the reason why i haven't married anybody yet, because the paperwork and all the legal work needed to finalize a divorce is taxing.

You're 26. You still have a chance on life. Grab it before that self-centered female takes it from you. She doesn't deserve you. Sick woman.

Wow- thank you for his post!!! The last 6 months I was in the exact mind frame of your wife(turned out I resented my husband for working so much and never being home and I was contributing...long story)- except I'm the one who is always asking for sex and not my husband...but the grocery list was exact the same! In the last 6weeks, I realize that there are things we both see in the same light and some we don't. I see the the whole- save money thing (my husband makes double what I make in a year), but it's like déjà vu. I pay all the utilities and he pays mortgage and insurance and we both do groceries except he does most of the time (I'm on leave)... But it's the same arguments. My only expectation is joint finances and that would literally resolve our issues. But he refuses. I read the list and I'm thinking "wow seems unfair and one sided" and then a sec later " wow that was me". i am really sorry that youre being held back from being intimate, stay loyal though, it's tough. Im especially sorry her comment about your expectations of her. That's just disrespectful in my eyes. I have expectations of my husband, but have had to make them more realistic and in the last 6 weeks we've really turned a corner.

Stay true to yourself.

Don't give up- trust me in this one. There an obvious reason why you both married. That's what I keep reminding myself...and I've started to acknowledge that more- he doesn't compliment often but when he does it's like amazing. He recently told me "I'm a cool mom for baking snacks for (my daughters) preschool class". We both sat down and wrote 5 expectations of ourselves as individuals and as a couple and as parents...the major ones were reversed, but some many were in sync. Sex and finances were one of the ones reversed. So we are still trying to sort that out to be in the same order - in the meantime we both are putting effort towards them jn the ways we lack. I told him that I don't care about materialistic gifts, I'm emotionally driven, so if you see me having a day from hell an refines aren't done then that's the time where you would step up and say "babe, ill do this. I started a bath for you" oracle me a cup of tea or coffee of you're up first. My effort would be no deep intense conversations at night in bed and instead of backhanded compliments, only say encouraging postive words. In the past 4 years I've had so much pent up resentment because of his job and how emotionally tuned out he was and that was a major factor in our sexless unhappy marriage. We are teaching ourselves to fight fair and positive words when we do. 4 years of unhappiness and I'm ready to walk out the door to 1 productive conversation which resulted in 6 weeks of a truly honest communication an we've both been happy- and busy ;) went from once every 8 weeks to so far(fingers crossed) 3 times month- with two kids and shift work, I'm happy with that as a starting point lol. Every marriage is extremely hard work and j believe that there's a huge misconception about it. So hang in there have have faith that with effective communication and positivity and patience will result in some resolution. Good luck!

Browneyes and Blackorchid, please note that of the 34,000+ members on here, maybe a dozen have had long-term success. With any luck you will both be in the success group, but DO NOT WASTE YOUR LIFE BETTING ON IT and my other advice would be IF YOU DO NOT HAVE KIDS, DON'T UNTIL YOU TRULY SORT THIS OUT.

I've been a dozen years in this mess, others here 20, 30, 40 years. IGNORE THE STATS AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

Marriage is give and take. Take take & take is only one sided. Run for it buddy the only way is out.

I have read all your stories... RUN,RUN,RUN! Never buy "When we first started getting serious in every aspect she told me that she didn't want to have sex for 1 year to ensure that I didn't want her for just sex." again! If a young woman does not want sex with you after 5 days break, she is somewhat frigid... Please,please, do not wait another 30 years!

I think your wife is selfish. First of all, be aware women who uses me, i, myself all the time. She is lucky to have the ears of a husband to listen to her crap listing. In return, i hope you make a listing for her too. What goes around comes around.

I'd say this is not the whole picture...your side, maybe. But not the whole picture. Women love to be loved. If your wife says she only wants to have sex when she wants to, then work out a way to make her fel like she wants to. Duh.
It sounds like she is asking you to be engaged with her and her life. I have had similar rants at my husband....
if you try this tactic, it will work. Say this:
"Honey, I had no idea, I have been neglecting your needs. You know I love you and want you to be happy." Or similar words, you have to be genuine & persuasive...make her melt, goddamnit! She is crying out for love and attention...give it to her. Work out how to make her happy sexually and you will be amazed at the results. For inspiration draw on the things you used to do when you were courting...this is the woman you chose to be with, remind yourself why and get your **** together.

This sounds like a great idea. I'll just go without sex for another three months while I work on making her "melt". When I wrote that I have given this woman everything and done anything I meant it. I'm done trying harder.

Good for you on sticking to your guns. She doesn't appreciate you, I say you are better off.

How can you make someone "melt" and give affection when clearly she is selfish, and love is a 2 way street. I'm recommending seperation, and a few nights on the town enjoy another moment of interlude as a single young man, and you never know there could be a woman out there more suited to your fancy. stay strong.

Divorce sucks no doubt. Yet living in that relationship sucks even more. It will do nothing but destroy you and tear you apart. Yes, I know the thoughts that if you try harder she'll love you, or why does your wife do those things, and why doesn't she get it. No one wants to think of themselves as a failure for choosing the wrong partner. I know its hard, but the sooner you make that decision to proceed with that daunting and emotionally trying adventure that is divorce, you will be much happier in the end.

Just think about this. Divorce could cost you $5-$10K dollars. Child support at $500 a month for 18 years is going to cost you $108K. All that comes out of your NET income, you will have to pay it to that person you loathe and you can NEVER be rid of her. It is a hard decision to make. You can not change her, she will have to change her self. You can only change you. So ask yourself, is this the life you want to life? Is this the life you deserve to life? I think not. Get out NOW! Before she tears you apart and destroys you.


I'll just repeat what everyone here is saying. Leave her. It won't get better - EVER. If you're already feeling this bitter at such a young age, imagine yourself 10, 15 or 20 years down the road. It will not get better. Trust me, I know all too well. Being rejected like this will take it's toll on you and everyone around you.

Well I won't condemn her as I know what it is like to be on the other side and have the man vent and everyone gangs up on her. But saying that...I agree that you two need to try and have some civil conversation as to what you expect out of this marriage and what she (bottom line) expects. Then if it can't be counciled out between you two or discussed, then you have a major problem with your marriage. Address it won't get better on its own. Good Luck.

Wow, that doesn't seem fair at all. I can understand your bitterness. That would irk me to no end.

Find out what is the real problem here because mannnnn it sounds like there is a huge underlying issue. Who doesn't like sex? I can understand there are times one does not always feel like it. But not that ******* often. As for the other points???? Who raised her? A caveman? Those 'expectations' belong in the 50s and sooner. That is not how life is lived anymore. A r/ship is all about balance and sharing and support. I relate to her wishes to be respected. But she must also respect your wishes and needs once in a while. Talk to her seriously and as calmly as possible. Are there any reasons why she feels this entitlement in her r/ship? Does she have a large family or is she an only child? Was her father an extreme influence to her by his r/ship to his wife? There is a lot of psychological influence behind this story. The ULTIMATE question is "Are you happy??" If not then "Can you envision a solution?" And if not again......"Is it worth sacrificing your sanity??"

My wife had completely shut me off for nearly 29 years. It's messed up, but you'll live. I'm proof

No fair. She shouldn't ask for something without giving somthing back everyone knows that. My advice: make a list yourself. :) good luck

Not every thing in life pays off. It's the risk we take!

Leave her.

So Sorry for you. Get out now because it doesn't get better. I've been down that road and waited way to long to leave.

Yeah I was married and even though all marriages are different this is truely not one I heard of a spouse saying that will to you it maybe time to give your demand's or move on from her because if you stay and not to be mean to your wife but think of your life in ten year's from now. do you love her enough to stay or not but this behavior of her's is far from love. this is not how a spouse is supposed to be treated for one and the responsiblity's are to be share or fairly agreed upond.

If this behavior is new, she may have found someone desirable to compare you to. If not, then she sounds like a *****. I did not know the true meaning of the word until I worked with this insane girl. She topped the list. This one here is acting like her. Relationships work both ways and the long lasting ones require acceptance.

seems to me you married a teenager. :)

Dude, you are so young. You have your whole life ahead of you. Take the advise from these comments. Get out now. I was in a sexless, verbally abusive marriage for too many years, eventually I stepped out of the marriage - not intentional, not planned, it happened. It was then I was reminded of what it was like to be loved and I knew by staying in this marriage to do the "right thing" I was making many "wrongs" "right" in my children's eyes and it was time to leave. With children and finances and a very stubborn, controlling spouse I am still not divorced 5+ years and $30K later. Now I am just sexless :-( but without the BS :-)


<br />
<br />
<p>You are definately the one with the problem.</P><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>However, your problem is about 25 years old, married to you and is very likely the reincarnation of Countess Elizabeth Bathory, reputedly the most evil woman in history.</P><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>OK, maybe she isn't all that bad. But it sounds like her upbringing is about 100 years out of date and that of moneyed royalty. Or maybe she's been reading too many Jane Austin novels.</P><br />
<br />
As you must know down deep, the answer for you is to GET OUT!<br />
<br />
If you have the notion that you are married for better or worse, etc., that <br />
you couldn't stand the humiliation of being divorced or of being "one of those divorced people" or whatever it is that is stopping you from leaving her, NOBODY CARES! Put it all behind you, make as if she was just somebody you dated once, came to your senses and left. IT IS NO BIG DEAL! Yes it is a change. Just like a new job - it takes a little while, then everything becomes normal again.<br />
<br />
Nike says it best: "Just Do It!"

If her own parent slaps you upside the head with a green "go" sign.......

Why do you stay?

1. STUPID CHIVALRY By getting involved with the wrong woman (weak, flaky, damaged, needy, desperate, stupid, untrustworhty, immature etc.). you think your love will save/transform her.

From help for men dot com.

I am not in any kind of relationship, but as I see it.. if she is like that, then you should not be with her, she does not even think about what you want. In this case I think that you should.
think of your own happiness, and divorce her

She truly said those things? Seriously?! I'm sorry, but she has no clue what a marriage is all about. She sounds terribly naive and self absorbed. You are too young to be stuck indefititely in something like that. Hoping you make your way toward a warm and happy relationship.

oh...i don't know what to say...except...that is an excellent definition of self centered selfishness, but to the extreme. I am like you, i would have to have left the house. I would have needed to walk....and just walk.
If you are able, you really do need to not remain in that relationship. You are not valued at all, except for what you earn.....i am so sorry.

Her slant on expectations is a signal something is very wrong with her psyche. Maybe look at some posts on the www.shrink4men site. There is a good one on there about 'taking and wining'. Also look at the borderline personality disorder posts and narcissist posts. You may get enlightened or you may not. Either way I wish you luck.

Never in my life have I been so appauled! I dont get know men always ask why do nice guys finish last? Well why do good men like you marry women like that! Man if you ever need just a friend to listen I am here for you.

Holy ****. Women are evil.

No. Women are incredible beings that have the capacity to make even the simplest man feel like a king.

Unfortunately, I married a b...itch.

Your right about that...always I have treated the men I am with like kings unfortunatley never recieving it back. I am sorry you chose a ***** to marry.

and all humans are/can be evil it is in our nature.

I suggest you take the list she has compiled on you and take it to your lawyer. It reads to me that she wants you to pay for everything and she wants to save her money building up a war chest of funds to eventually screw you over if you divorce.

My wife had similiar expectations and used to pocket all her money at my expense until i wised up and cut her off. I can only suggest you do the same.

Perhaps now is the time to see a lawyer and start to put together a doable exit plan. This marriage unfortunately seems to be heading for the toilet.

Stay Strong & Good Luck

The marriage is already in the toilet!

Good point. Thats what i meant. Bad grammer on my behalf :)

I do believe in counseling and/or relationship coaching. This may be too far gone for that. Your wife may be bi-polar or borderline. That her father saw fit to tell you to make a hasty exit means he knows things are not right. Hopefully you were wise enough to get a good pre-nup, but about any settle ment is worth it to be rid of her. Tell us what you saw in her in the first place. I can tell you from experience, all of the things that you are concerned with do NOT get better over time without intervention. Your best bet, undoubtedly, is to divorce her and move on. I believe in marriage, but not like this. Jeop is out of her mind.

Her belief that "sex" is like a commodity... to be used to reward you, rarely; and to punish you, usually..... should end up being the grounds for a divorce finding in which YOU come out the "winner"..... leaving little for her, as she goes on to her (future) life of trying to find the NEXT hubby who will fall for her... then live in the desert which is her emotional self.... Good luck...

This is really what she said? Like... literally? Is she 6 years old? She needs counseling and you need to get out, my friend!

Yes. Everything I wrote were the actual words that came out of her mouth.

My wife of 25 years said essentially the same thing. You have some hard choices to make.

I've said it before and I'll say it once again: expectations are relationship-killers. Marriage should be about partnership, sharing, support, compromise, friendship and, yes, (I think) individuality. Expectations come from inside. They are selfish. Expecting something from someone is the absolute opposite of loving that person.

Utter nonesense. Could you really say that with a straight face? No expectations on the part of a partner? You most certainly have the right to expectations, male and female. Love is not enough, and cannot be enough for the long term, for love is undefineable and unquantifiable. there comes a point where a person staying in a situation is not loving, they are chumps.

For example, a woman has the right to expect to be safe and protected in marriage. She has the right to expect not to be hit or abused. She has the right to expect her husband to be sober, a participant in child rearing, a team member in decision making and at times an anchor when she is vulnerable. She also has the right to expect her sexual needs to be met and unless there is an agreement to the contrary that if he is able, her husband will give her children. A man has the right to expect respect, support and encouragement, sexual gratification on a frequent basis (minimum once per week, maximum unlimited). He has the right to expect her to keep some of her energy for him. He has the right to her advice when requested. He has the right to expect to be supported in child-rearing and discipline (so does she). These things should be worked out ahead of time, before marriage so each partner knows what the other expects. However, the most important thing partners in a relationship have the right to expect is honest and open communication. Communication in a relationship takes hard work. It is not natural to communicate well, it is a skillset. There can be quibling on specifics of what I am saying, like the frequency of sex, but both lose if it is less frequent than once per week according to ALL legitimate studies, and those who have it every day have the best relationships.

Love, by the way, is totally unreliable as understood in western culture. The "feelings" of love naturally wane over time, and it takes the cooperation and meeting of expectations of both partners for the feeling to be sustained. Love involves action. A partner has the right to expect patience, honesty, integrity, support, reasonableness, fun, help, etc. Expectation influences outcome. If ou don't expect success you won't get there. If you don't have expecations of your partner you dont' have a basis for understanding where you stand. What you said sounded good until I took it apart and thought about its implications. its implications would be disastrous.

Its implications are what many great thinkers have talked about when they refer to letting go. Nobody has the right to expect anything from anyone. Period. Life is not like that. I can't take a tree to court because it didn't bear fruit. Why should any person have to the right to stipulate another person's actions? Expectations make the relationship stagnate.
Marriage is a very funny thing. There are many different ideas on what the purpose of marriage is.
Love cannot be expected. It's a miracle. It's the greatest feeling in the world to receive something you need but didn't expect.
By the way, it's funny that you should mention western culture because I have become less and less impressed by western culture over the years.

You talked about rights. I don't see why anyone should have rights to anything when life doesn't guarantee anything.

So many people nowadays just do what is expected of them (especially at work, but also in relationships). It doesn't bring much fulfillment.
But when people allow themselves to do what their heart tells them, they are free to love.

I am going to take that Jeop meant the WIFE'S expectations are the relationship killer! Because the wife is the one detailing them out in a list so the WIFE is the selfish one.

I expected talking touching and making love from my STBX...silly me &gt;:( Oh, and keeping *some* sort of job simply because I don't make enough to support a nonworking adult...oops, didn't always get that either.

Jeop, it is interesting that you miss several basic points. While "love" or "lust" motivates getting involved with a marriage. The giving of vows in front of "God and this company" or before an agent of the state almost always involves mutual promises to "love, honor, cherish, maintain fidelity, and welcome children." There are variations of course, but nearly all couples make promises about the expectations each may have of the other. That is because mankind has always understood that the intense feelings of new relationships eventually fade. In ancient times and in some societies bound by ancient customs there are more detailed marriage contracts. That is necessary because feelings are inherently unreliable for the long-term. In all societies it is understood that sex is a part of marriage and the husband (historically) has expected to receive unfettered access to the sexual favors of the female. Even though not legally defensible, the bulk of the world understands that when a woman is not giving sex to her husband he is "justified" in cheating.

At the same time, most people find it distasteful to reduce the ideas of marriage to a "contract".

If I am an employer, I have the right to expect certain levels of performance in exchange for the wages I pay. That, again, is expectation. Now it is great when employees are willing to go above and beyond, but that is the exception, not the rule. No, before anyone has a fit, I am not equating the marraige relationship with a job, but jeop made the sweeping suggestion that expecations had no place in human interactions.

Students expect certain grades in response to performance. Though nearly always disappointed, the electorate has expectations of their elected representatives.

There are many men who do not live up to their end of the bargain sexually. However, in general, it is women who diminish the sexual rewards of marriage. Men wind up giving up as women come up with in ever increasing stream of excuses for not being good partners for their husbands. Thus marriage suffers. Men need a certain level of sexual activity to be their optimal selves.

So, contrary to the nonesense that expectations do not belong in human interactions, they are essential to all of human intercourse including sexual intercourse.

First of all, I'm a man, not a woman. So your comment should read: Jeop is out of HIS mind.
I didn't say that expectations aren't part of human interaction, I said that they shouldn't be.
Thousands of years of marriages (especially Western ones) have showed us that the present arrangement of things often leads to suffering on the part of at least one of the couple--very often both. Why? When they are in the courting stage, there are no expectations (or at least fewer). After marriage, come the babies, the bills, the falsehoods, the fights. Very often, the woman expects the man to understand her without her communicating clearly while the man expects things to stay the same (among all the other things on the long list of expectations each one has for the other). Although, I do concede that many people perhaps need or want those expectations (especially on the professional level) in some ways to find direction in their lives.
If there is anything that science has showed us, it's that established ideas need to always be challenged. If they are good, they will withstand the test. There will be good results. But then, someone comes along and has another idea that proves to be better. Now, I'm not saying that my ideas are any better than anyone else's, I just think that we shouldn't accept our present situation simply because that's how it's been for thousands of years.
I think we are both of the same opinion about the case of this man. I just think that we should always have open minds about what is to come and observe the situation to be able to understand it.

mvcmvc is right in that I think that the wife's expectations are ruining the relationship in this case. She obviously expects something that she doesn't feel she is getting however justified or unjustified that may be. And that is where her unyielding attitude is coming from in my opinion.

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I think the only question left to ask her is "Who are you *******?". If at 26 (assuming you are similar in age), she doesn't want sex from you anymore then it's been my experience that its because she is getting it elsewhere. I have had many friends that have been in your situation. I assume she was not like this when you got married, so what changed? I would hire a private investigator and I would bet you'll find she is cheating.

You married a little girl, not a woman.

Obviously daddy's little girl, LMAO

Actually, girls with good relationships with their daddies tend to be better wives. It is girls that are spoiled and overindulged that make terrible wives too often. is a clear cut case where your loyalty and good intentions need to be re-directed: to yourself.

please, please see an attorney. be prepared with all pertinent information. get as ready as possible.

in your shoes as young as you are & based on your replies to others' comments, soon as i had the necessary prep work in place for the divorce? i'd be kickin her out. chop chop quick.

IMHO, that's what you should do. but ymmv.

-----" Her father (in private conversations) has told me several times to do whatever I had to do to leave his daughter."

Whoa - if that does not motivate you to take action, then nothing anyone on this board says will be of use!

You can do better than this worthless tw@t.

Shocking! She sure has some attitude and a huge sense of entitlement and no doubt is controlling you through sex. You have to meet all her expectations before you *earned* sex with her.

OMG..... I'm speechless. ..

Thank God it is easy to pour your heart out to stragners. I have had many a "Sugar Daddy" in my life and they all start where you are now. In a marriage where they are expected to provide for the wife and in return get a verbal conformation of that love. Every Sugar Daddy i have had has been looking for one thing sex or oral sex. Your a going to end up being a Sugar Daddy. If there is no physical reason why your wife can't preform for or with you then nothing will change her. If you accept this and continue with your marriage and all is well then you will eventually look else where for what you need. Be careful it can be a lonely life.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I get where you're coming from, a relationship is about give and take, one cannot go without the other.
If my bf would ever ask your same question, I would listen to his expectations too, that's for sure. But I get it, sometimes we ask so much, like your wife does, needing help with stuff. But everyone has needs, sometimes ppl forget that, and forget to listen to our partner. So I hear you, so thanks for sharing this.

You could adopt the "1hotcouple" technique and just try harder.

Might be wise to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to see how a divorce would shake out for you as well though.

Tread your own path.


How could he possibly try harder????

That is a BAZZAR suggestion.

He needs to get the **** OUT,,,,,ASAP.

Listen,,knightinbrokenarmour,,,,,,,,,,,don't adopt 1hotcouple,,,,,,,,don't listen to bazarr,,,,,,( he is bazzar),,,,and just get out,,,,,before any kids are involved.

I don't think our technique would do much good here. We're in totally different situations. There is no mine and hers. Everything we have and do is commingled.

She sounds like a straight up selfish *****. With her attitude, I'm not sure why you want to be intimate with her.

Lol, Baz is just being sarcastic!

If what you wrote is true, I don't think counselling is going to help here. You need to leave asap.

Did she come from a privileged family?

Did daddy do everything for her???

She did not come from a privileged family. In fact my family is the one that is well to do. Both fortunately and unfortunately my parents instilled in me a strong sense of loyalty to family and respect for your partner. Which is probably why I have dealt with this marriage for so long. Her parents are very good people that love me like a son. Her father (in private conversations) has told me several times to do whatever I had to do to leave his daughter. That always takes me by surprise.

So, she married well and expects you to take care of her needs. If your in-laws think you should leave, you should leave. They know her better and for longer than you have. I have a relative like you are describing, actually. Her own parents, siblings, relatives etc all think he is not loved for anything more than his paycheck. And some days that seems to not even be enough. It's a lonely existence. If you're going to stay I suggest you get a job that lets you travel at least 3 weeks a month. Being far away seems to make it almost bearable. do you have kids?

What about respect for yourself?

And you are young,,,so , in comparison to many in here,,,you really have not dealt with it me.

And if her dad is telling you to run for the hills,,,,,,then do it man.....!!!!

I am assuming you also put gas in her car.<br />
<br />
Next time, when she asks you to fill it up,,,and you don't,,,when she asks you why,,,,,tell her.<br />
<br />
"I am your husband and I love you, if that's not enough to make you happy then you're the one with the problem."

NEWSFLASH --------You should have kept on walking........!!!!!!!

If you don't have kids,,,,,,get out Now.

<p>The princess has got a great list of expectations there. Are you going to counter with a list of your own expectations? And then what?</P><br />
<p>Go read MVCMVC's comment over a couple more times. </P><br />
<p>For your next marriage: Marriage Prep course and a marriage contract.</P>

I have certain expectations of my lover too. That's part of being in a relationship with someone. He has expectations of me too. But when it comes to things like materialism or paying bills and so on, that's not the kind of expectation I mean. She sounds like a princess. Your user name is interesting considering her expectations. It almost seems like you were willing to be the princess's knight in shining armor at first and now she doesn't think anything is expected of her. The thing is, real princesses have HUGE obligations. Royalty is not all its cracked up to be. They are under immense pressure to do all sorts of things they may not want to do. They have very little freedom to just be themselves and make autonomous choices. They may expect to have a maid, a butler and access to near unlimited funds, but they are also required to serve as royalty. Your princess isn't doing her job. Maybe she should lose her servant(s)?

She sounds like a kept woman. She should be putting out a shitload more ***** for all that she "requires" of you. Time to reevaluate your situation.

so blunt but oh so true!

I have an idea. For 1/2 the mortgage and bills, 1/2 the childrearing duties, and love and friendship, you can find someone like me and have sex multiple times a week! Throw in some babysitting and dates and we can make it multiple times a day!!!

I seriously LOL'ed at that list. What I wouldn't have done for a fraction of that attention!!!!

can i get a man who'll do this stuff for me? zsu, i'm with you!

They are out there, some of us are in SM too.