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Fifty Shades...or....Throw Me Down

I read...a lot.
Of course, like millions of others my "go to" list includes NYT Best Sellers so avoiding this trilogy is almost impossible. Also, my curiousity is limitless and at the moment so is my time. I'd like to think I'm picky about subject matter but the raw truth is....I'm not.

Since so much of what I read on EP is sexual in nature, and since I have lived longer than most of you, there are a few thoughts I have concerning bdsm or at least the concept and because I have membership I'm tempted to share. If you haven't read this series, you'll not know of which I write...move on now. Since I have no first hand experience I will have to refer only to what I have read and I have to confess I graduated from Fifty Shades to a half dozen copycat books at which point I had had it up to here with the story line. If there is someone who is reading this that participates in this I apologize now for any misinformation that might be included or suggested....this is just my limited observation. Correct me but please do it gently.

There is nothing new under the sun, it's all been done before. Eons ago, cave men and women have practiced this lifestyle, if the history books can be believed. Mr. Caveman dragged his woman by the hair to the cave both to get his dinner and take his pleasure. So far nothing is written about whether she liked it or not, let's assume she did and enjoyed her role, I don't see she had a choice. Sex is primitive...and one of the strongest drivers known, right up there with self preservation.

Seems to me the attraction for a sub is an avoidance of responsibility in the sex department and the associated guilt over his/her sexual preferences. All his/her sexual needs are met as well as many others. There also appears to me that there is less need for verbal communication (since the dom makes the decisions, what's to discuss?). Both adults get to play out their sexual fantasies and of course I think men, more often than women, have a need to control. As a now adult woman my childhood memories come back to remind me I would burn in hell for enjoying sex and God forbid I should ask for it in any form else I would be punished. I was my father's toy - he laid down the rules..."no one touches you (gives you pleasure) but me". Is this scenario (aside from the difference in age and ability to accept or reject of course) different than the D/s dynamic?

I know nothing about the pleasure/pain connection. I never met a pain that I liked. I'm guessing there is some physiological basis but I almost failed biology. What comes to mind is the expected result whenever we misbehave (think impure thoughts). Acceptance of punishment resolves the issue..."beat me please, absolve me".

Now, all this aside, I was surprised to find there was somewhat of a story, however far-fetched. Remember I mentioned I had read other books like these...in all cases the women were 20 something virgins and the men were 20 something bazillionaires. The stories all ended with subsequent marriages and 1 1/2 children. Sexual encounters occurred daily if not hourly and of course nothing else mattered. Sighhhhh. While I can believe in behaviors like this (I was 20 something at one time too yanno) I also believe it sets an unrealistic standard for couples, one that is unattainable and exhausting if not utterly ridiculous. One other thought...perhaps this story is turnabout...the result of the irritation many women feel when their SO's obviously lust after the Angelina Jolie's of this world. How can our men possibly match the standard of Christian Grey's exceptional size, disapline and staying power?

Even if I find this an interesting subject, I don't feel drawn to the life but I do admit that knowing what I know now...about myself, that is, it might have been of benefit for me as an adult to have met someone who would have just grabbed me and thrown me down. There. Decision made. I love the passion in that....clearly I would have felt desired. I would have fought like hell....then I would have given him any damned thing he wanted.

cheleshere cheleshere 66-70, F 16 Responses Jan 16, 2013

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Well written with wisdom!!

Very eloquent, clear and reasoned. No mention of Sabine Women, or Lucretia? I have been advised by female friends to read the first in the trilogy, so as to comment.
Its not my subject, or rather, the only Fifty Shades of Grey in my life, is a paint chart

Dear 10061963L, I"m not sure who you mean when you say "this person", but cheleshere is talking about a series of books, and the characters' name is "Christian Grey". The books were written by a woman if I recall, and are entirely fictitious.

If you are referring to cheleshere herself, this entire website is anonymous, and she isn't outing herself, or her husband.

Lets try not to judge, and lets also try to respect each other, and not condemn each other here. If you have nothing to contribute, nothing encouraging to say, perhaps it would be best for you to read quietly and knit a sweater for one of your grandkids or something, instead of judging someone for "going through such highschool situations" as a person in her 60's.

She, nor anyone else on this thread find what she's doing degrading. If you found it so degrading, why are you here reading about it? Your presence here tells us that you too are likely in a sexless marriage. Did you not suspect we would put that together all by ourselves?

Have a better day.

Hey I think all women like the idea of being ravished now and again but I doubt if many people keep the sex thing going seven times a day much after the first five years. (Ok three times a day) It becomes less urgent. And sometimes later on in life libido vanishes in even the most highly sexed (which incidentally is most usually medically fixable). I also think most people couldn't sustain an intense BDSM lifestyle for many years because the demands of day to day living tend to get in the way. When you've called out the washing machine repairman it doesn't stay amusing if you're trussed up with silken ropes every time he rings the bell!

But - if you learn to keep a D/s relationship steady, borderline vanilla, (not being beaten for trivial things like rolling your eyes!) you can keep the excitement going, albeit in waves. Most people really don't like pain; so when it's not merely the anticipation but the actual event, it's more a physical sensation combined with an emotional one. Also most people wouldn't really want their friends to know about the kinky things they get up to with tawses and straps - and that in itself adds a frisson of excitement too. Although the act itself is (usually) between only two people in private, in a sense it involves the wider community too

Hello, I'm a D in a D/s relationship. However, this dynamic is limited strictly to the bedroom, and the initiation of sex. Further, the nature of our D/s isn't based on pain, it's based on my leadership, and her mental arousal by knowing that she is very very capable of pleasing me. In doing so, she becomes very aroused, and I in turn please her. I don't strike her (I may swat her *** to make her push back against me harder or faster, just as a jockey swats his racing horse) but that is the extent of my delivery of pain. We do however enjoy light bondage, and she loves to be held down and forced to ******, and forced to KEEP that ****** going long after she would have instinctively stopped stimulating herself. My SO, and her submissive nature is a GIFT that I cherish. Were I to take it for granted, I'd be missing the point, and she'd be giving that gift to the wrong person.

At the core, our most "caveman" selves (speaking of both women and men here) it is testosterone that drives sexual desire. Some women have more than others, but men are literally riddled with the stuff. I look at it as a curse sometimes, and a blessing other times. But in either case, it is as the Creator (whoever/whatever it is, perhaps it's just evolution and the preservation of the species in action) intended it to be.

I have been in relationships (ex wife of nearly 10 years, in particular) with women who, early on, claimed to crave domination (and enjoyed it), but when faced with the choice of allowing a man to lead on a regular basis, either their puritan upbringing, feminism, pride/ego (you mean, I should let you have me any time you want?!? Sex on demand?!?), or control issues get in the way. Collectively, lets call puritanism, pride/ego, feminism, and control issue collectively "hang ups". Anyway, hang ups are not a part of the basic instinct of male/female attraction... these are heady, intellectual concepts that cavemen (and women) didn't have to deal with very much. They just weren't capable of it.

Now, I'm not saying that intelligent, feminist women can't be submissive, but what I am saying is that THE MOST intelligent women are capable of turning these intellectual hang ups off, so that they can enjoy the natural, basic differences between men and women. I'm oozing testosterone, you are not. But kissing me does transfer that testosterone to your mouth, and you do in fact have hormone receptors in your mouth to receive the testosterone in my saliva. Isn't that amazing! But if you're not willing to SUBMIT to my kiss (the spark that starts the fire, often times), we're not going to have a consistent and healthy sex life of any kind.

I guess my point in all this is very simple... intellectualism kills hot sex.

An interesting post which I appreciate, not just for the content but for the time you took to write it, though I find it somewhat contradictory, namely: "...THE MOST intelligent women are capable of turning these intellectual hang ups off..." as opposed to "... intellectualism kills hot sex." I confess I find the latter hard to swallow (no pun intended).
This flies in the face of what I have read and been told, to wit, many submissive women are quite intelligent, hold responsible positions and are willing and even eager to give up control of their sexuality, and, in fact, that makes sense to me. To be certain I understand, do you mean intelligent women or feminist women?
I placed a comment in answer to jacobcreet (from the second paragraph) that addresses some of this.
By the way, that testosterone thing? I didn't know that...

To clarify, I will talk about myself. I'm an intelligent man. I am aware that I have pride. I'm aware of how destructive it can be. Fortunately, I am intelligent enough to put my pride in check when dealing with a superior at work. Doing so protects my interest in the preservation of that working business relationship, and ensures that I have a job to return to the following day. I submit to my boss, out of his clearly defined authority.

In kind, the D/s dynamic calls for a woman who is intelligent enough to realize that the most successful relationship with a man is one where he has access to her whenever he wants (within reason, of course, we're not talking about compulsive behavior or sex addiction being acted upon).

I have to say that your childhood experiences do not accurately translate to D/s relationships between consenting adults. This may indeed be why you struggle to get your head around the concept of D/s dynamics. It's why I mentioned in opening paragraph that My Lady's submissive nature, and willingness to please me is HER GIFT to me, and is cherished and adored. Were she not wired the way that she is, I could not force myself upon her. I am not a rapist. She wants to be blown in the direction of MY wind, wherever it blows. She trusts that whatever I choose to do with and to her, I am enjoying her immensely, and she could just as easily say "no" or "stop" or anything else to indicate that she is not comfortable, and I would instantly stop, and respect her request.

A Dom should never steal a gift. If you steal a gift before it's been given to you, you still stole something, right? If a child opened all his Christmas presents 2 days before Christmas, he would rob his parents of the joy of seeing him unwrap those gifts, and they would be upset. They did intend to give him those gifts, yes, but not on THOSE terms/circumstances.

Your father took a gift from you that was intended, by the Creator, for a man you wouldn't meet for another 10 years or more. Shame on him for doing that to you. I hope he burns in hell for doing that to you. I'm very sorry.

I appreciate your empathy however I am not struggling, as you say, with the dynamic at all. The original post was posted, albeit in the wrong group, as a book review. The comment about my past had to do with the element of consent only as I saw similarities apart from that element. I regret even posting that as it has allowed us to get off the path.
Indeed your description is beautiful and I applaud the relationship and your respect for it; you explain it quite well however your simple conclusion "...intellectualism kills hot sex." still bothers me as it insinuates that intellectuals may not be ideal partners in the BDSM or D/s relationship. Since you practice it I respect you as an authority and since it isn't necessary I will not beat it to death even though I enjoy the debate. Thanks for your comments akdelta2112. :)

being an intellectual, and employing intellectualism while in bed are two different things.

If my S.O. was thinking about her hippie mother wagging her finger in her face and saying "never submit to ANY man, I didn't raise you that way. You're a college educated liberal minded feminist now get those handcuffs off and kick that man in the balls like I taught you to do!" she would be incapable of enjoying herself in my arms.

She has decided to disengage her THOUGHTS, her INTELLECT, and she's actually MORE INTELLIGENT for having the control over herself to do so when she wants to. It allows her no guilt in being a little s.l.u.t. in bed, it allows her to be, in essence, a cave woman.

I don't know how else to say it. Worth a try! Thank you, too, I enjoyed your perception about the whole thing.

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THis post is great! I don't negatively talk down the sub/dom lifestyle, but like you I DON'T understand it. Like you... I don't like pain in any form, not even a friendly swatted bottom slap. YOu bring up some interesting points! I ponder if I see your view clearly because I see me in your future as you wrote about.

it was such a pathetic read....

LOL....which? My post or Fifty Shades?

50 shades ofcourse!!!

Oh...ok, just wanted to be sure....LOL

in fairness it is a book aimed at women, and unlikely to appeal to men at all

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yep

I believe you are misinformed by terrible child hood experiences. I am a complete gentleman. Not every dominant man wishes to cause pain or humiliate his lover; I'm fact that is self-defeating. BDSM is about exploring sexuality and mutual pleasure. It isn't for everyone, but if you have an opem mind and a caring partner, it can heighten and prolong an incredible experience. And by the way, all of the submissive women I know are successful, independent, strong women.

My childhood experiences may color my estimation of this work to some degree, but only by comparison, difficult for one to ignore. It ends with the issue of consent, which is present in BDSM and was not in my personal experience, which was as a child and not an adult. Still, one can't deny the element of control that is woven throughout both dynamics and other elements too complicated to explore here.
My intention while writing this was to comment on the books and not to criticize the lifestyle per se; I never for a moment believed the story was a complete or accurate depiction (as you point out) and, of course, I had a limited view. For that reason, and my endless curiousity I researched the subject and recognize BDSM can take many forms, not all of which were described in Shades of Grey.
My comments were candid off hand remarks about a particular book series I felt was written primarily to appeal to purient interest (and yes, I was entertained and amused for a bit as well as aroused for other bits, lol) and I hoped that other readers would not use this as a measurement for their sexual success, just as some would not want this story to be used as a guidebook for BDSM.
I have friends and acquaintences who participate and I agree these are intelligent, respectful and responsible individuals, as you obviously are, and I enjoy our contact. My last paragraph illustrates that a strong male presence can be very attractive most especially to those successful independent women you describe.
Thanks so much for your input.

With the couples I have known who engaged in bdsm as a hobby but not as an addiction it was the submissive partner who had all the control. The dominant partners goal was to push all the right buttons in just the right order to bring the submissive partner to the edge of ****** and keep her or him there for as long as possible without going over the precipice.
Jacobcreet's reply resonates with my own observations. You touched on many of the clues in your story that was essentially a book review which we ****-for-brains quickly hijacked and turned into a discussion about sexuality in a group focused on sexless marriage. Being human is tricky. Obviously beyond my skill set. Next time maybe I will give being a bluegill a try. They seem to have a pretty good thing going.

You are quite correct, this should not have been posted in this group and I apologize.

Why would you apologize for stimulating conversation with your ability to use writing as an art? What you don't say is often as provoking as what you do. I think your words are appreciated and enjoyed wherever they appear. Thank you for making so many of us laugh smile and think.

How very complimentary, thank you so much....*blushes, smiles*

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Very thought provoking story

Human sexuality with all it's diversity fascinates me. I live alone in the backcountry on a small boat so most of my friends have fins, feathers or fur. Some of them are just as kinky as my imaginary lover. A male mallard is a perfect gentleman in every way until it comes to sex. He always positions himself between his mate and any potential threat, real or imagined. When I throw popcorn on the water he will let her eat her fill while he keeps other birds away and not eat any himself unless I throw them lots all at once. He is always attentive and affectionate. Until it comes to sex. No respect at all. If she is not as submissive and cooperative as he wants he will grab her by the neck and hold her head under water for a bit. He will do this again if she doesn't get the message the first time. I've never seen it take more than three "duckings" before she becomes as enthusiastic as he.

How very interesting.....thanks!

20+ years down the line it's pretty damn hard to steer clear of reverting to 'vanilla' without having a specific golden rule or habit to prevent that from happening. Which means that the 'kinky' lifestyle has to be important to you both. Which means (after so many years) that it has to have a more practical application than purely the sex - because it probably wouldn't work if it were for that alone. But I agree; no man could match up to the unrealistic expectations of a fictional romantic hero. They said the same about Mr. Darcy too, didn't they?

I pondered all your positions on each point and have to agree with all you have said. Good analysis of the books and their unrealistic assumptions. Good read, thank you.

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt...then it's awesome?
My naggy ex-boyfriend was annoying as all-get-out out of the bedroom, but he could carry me off to the bed and have my way with me ;p
I miss that part.

Suit up "CanuckChris", you're going in.

Um...should I be aquainted with "Chris"?

Chris wrote a rather unintentionally amusing remarks in the forum about his ability to win over chicks with his alpha male strategy.
Whether you would want to know him would be down to you. Have a read of that thread and see what you reckon. It's called "How I Reclaimed My Sex Life" or something like that.

No can do....I find no references to him or his story, but thanks for clearing that up, think I'll pass :)

1. Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty series is much better if you're into these types of books. 2. What happened to you as a child is terrible and in no way relates to the dynamic between two adults. 3. While it may create unrealistic standards, it shouldn't. This is fantasy. I don't expect my life to be like 50 Shades any more than I expect it to be like Star Trek.

I agree with what you're saying with the exception to #2, I think childhood sexual abuse has a great deal to do with present relationships. High on the list: sex equals love. The lines become blurred, the withholding of sex becomes akin to abandonment (punishment) and betrayal of trust. The fear and horror a child would experience when abandoned in a dark scary unsafe place is the same. Thanks so much for your comment and best of all outcome in your present endeavor...a hug for you.

Haha - since I posted this my life has become very 50 shades like. I love it! I'll have to read some of your work.

Well, I've moved on now...:)

@ cheleshere - I agree that events in childhood have a huge bearing

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