An Affair (Rule) To Remember

Post it as a stand alone story - you'll get plenty of comment, unique to your thread.

I'm fairly new to this site. I just added my story as you suggested. Hopefully I did it correctly. Thank you for your advice.

Depends on what you want and where you live ;-)

I doubt it ---- after reading your post, I doubt prostitutes will be more expensive than women like you.

Actually, this is an interesting perspective. I will put myself in a man's shoes for a moment. Let's say I am a married man, with children, and a full time position somewhere, and the most I can get away from my work and family obligations would be twice a month. Using my European corner of the world for the calculations, I would come up with this:

1. Prostitute, twice a month, for the services only (i.e, a 1-2 hours each visit) = 100 euros per visit at the minimum, unless you are choosing from the lower quality service providers, but I will assume I want the higher grade ones because of their appearance and skill set. Presuming I am living or working close enough to the source that petrol costs are not a factor, then we are looking at 200 euros a month.

2. Affair partner, who I would meet twice a month, and at a minimum we would spend 4 hours together, possibly even spend the night. Hotel, medium or 3 star, 80-100 euros per night. Or if I take an hourly hotel it will cost roughly 40 euros per hour. (This is why I would always take the regular hotel). If I buy us a meal somewhere it will be around another 30 euros (30*2=60).

Conclusion: Therefore 200 euros for a max of 4 hours with a prostitute (and we are probably talking about two different women here because I never know if my favorite is available). Or 260 euros for a minimum of 8 hours for a woman (who is probably quite expressive in bed, since she is not getting any at home) and who actually likes me, in fact likes me a lot, and enjoys spending time with me. So on an hourly basis, the affair partner is less expensive and the added bonus is a psychological one on top of it, because we laugh and have a good time and intelligent conversation together as well. Therefore, as a man, I would definitely take the affair partner.

Men, have I left out any considerations?

Johnny, it depends on what kind of outsourcing arrangement you are seeking. If you want a long-term, (ie. lasting for years) friend with benefits (FWB), then yes, something more equitable would eventually emerge. But if you are referring to short term outsourcing, (i.e., a year or less) why would a woman pick up the tab for that if what she wants is touch, sexual release, good conversation? The goal here is a pretty important consideration.

Well a short term arrangeable, one or two nights here and there, the male should pay. But if the woman has needs and wants to go out for a night, and she makes the call then it would not be out of line for her to pay.
After all she is just using the man for sex and companionship.

In my limited experience, it has never turned out like that, but I understand what you are saying, but on the woman's side there are many more up front costs incurred before the "activity" meeting even occurs. Expenses that men do not ever need bother with, like the waxing, the lingerie, the pedicure, paying for a babysitter, if necessary.

What I am saying is that the woman has likely made some serious investment in the rendezvous that a man never even considered. Come on, did you think all woman are running around with a bikini wax, perfectly pedicured feet, and silk lingerie all the time? And what did the guy do before the rendezvous, other than take a shower and shave his face? See my point?

You sound quite bitter F2. But this story is about guidelines for women in outsourcing situations, not for husbands with obese wives. I imagine that would be in another forum here on EP. I think there is one called "I hate my wife", but you will have to look it up. Perhaps you should post your story there and share your experience with that group.

Missberry, your marriage has been sexless for more than six years and you feel guilty? Honestly, I never struggled with the guilt part because I think if a husband stops having sex with his wife for YEARS then he assumes the risk that she is going to do something about it. And if he is surprised or angered by it (if he ever were to find out), then he failed to see his wife as a normal human being with feelings in the first place and that is even more unforgivable.

Thanks for the support, I will need to learn more from you and others about this. I've discussed with him about this matter, I gave him three choices : we both go to conselor, divorce or i'll cheat. And he said I'm too demanding...

MissBerry, I'll bet you are focusing on the 'sexless' exclusively and that in reality other symptoms exist this past six years for you..... I point this out merely to encourage you you to dig deeper into what is not working between you two; you might come up with additional issues which will help you to rationalize, and not least importantly, to assuage your guilt. As for your 3 alternative ultimatums: Now his response is extremely interesting as the least demanding of three would be cheating. A subtle approval? I once knew a girl whom was also married and whom was given tacit approval by her husband. He simply did not ask where she was on Tuesday's which was her day to roam.....however, I would like to point out to you all: that in this case the husband of some 15+ years was also extremely overweight....so perhaps he had a physiological excuse? But I always still maintain that there is never one reason for these things.

The more I think about your comment paulrevere69 the more I think there's something not right with my couple life. Need to dig deeper as you said. Yesterday he started to ask for sex, after six years !! As if he was cured by miracle, I asked him why he does this and he said because he wanted too... I'm even more confused... Its even worst than being unable to do so...

So Missberry, he is able to 'perform' but has chosen not to for such a long time? Is he of sound mind and body....meaning he is not that old, not overweight, and does not have any other ailments? So what you are saying is that he started asking only after being presented with your 3 options? Maybe he figured out that he's gay?
Very odd indeed

No, I did not use that term first. I think the first I saw it was from Enna30 in her story, "Outsourcing your Needs". No, I do not work in the IT industry.

paranoid much?

No experiences, no stories, no info on profile - NAhhhhhh , not paranoid at all!!

Check your math.

Statistically speaking, that's 1.4% of the people who read this also rated it up.

The highest rated story on ILIASM "Outsourcing Your Needs" has a rate up % to views of 2.24%.

By those standards this post has been pretty well received in the ILIASM group.

I do not know your back story because you have not written one, but if what you say is true, get out. You are too young. Marry a friend who is really into you- eventually. You have decades and decades of life in front of you. Fly away!!! Because your husband is not going to get any better.

I say eventually because at your age, you should have some more time to get to know yourself. Will make for a better marriage, hopefully.

Thank you for your opinion I am just so confused And constantly try to make things work I am just getting so tired of it.

Maybe he's gay like me.

Doubt it. The younger generation is not as apt to remain in the closet.

I can help all you women, as a vaginal therapist it's my duty to heel the vagina, using phsycovagolovy or physical therapy. Help me help you, together we can rub out vaginal neglect.

Yes, I could write a whole post on why I think the "morality" side of society's view of outsourcing is skewed in favor of men but that would take up so much space. We women are supposed to suffer and endure our husbands' "issues" until we die don't you know, LOL.

I did tell him. He asked, "What do you want me to do with this information?" But anyway, my situation is pretty complicated. Leaving is not an option at the moment. (American married to German, living in Germany and we have a very young child) Do you think my H's not having sex with me for YEARS is not selfish? I was not looking for a relationship, Zygote. I just wanted regular sexual release with good conversation, maybe friendship. Don't get confused between an emotional affair and a physical one.

but anyway, the point is moot since I discovered I am not cut out for outsourcing activity. For me the hassle outweighs the value. For some women, though, it keeps them completely sane and helps them cope with their sexless marriages.

Oh I did. And we went to marriage counseling, he took Viagra, etc. The extreme stuff I did myself to try and get the sex life going again is kind of silly in retrospect. Can't make someone who has no interest become interested. As far as his knowing, well, I never explicitly said, "I am going to meet Rudi tonight. Or I am going to meet Christian this afternoon." It was more don't ask-don't tell. But again, I found it too costly in terms of time and effort. But if I had more free time and less responsibility I might have felt differently. And it did help me snap out of my depression and self esteem issues at the time.

Yada yada... Morality is something that was made up to control. I suppose you'll try the fear of disease angle next. Oh wait, there it is.

Morality rules are useful until they do more harm than good or result in needless suffering. Then it is time to come to some agreement about new rules. Not for society, but for one's marriage. I do not know one person in ILIASM who just arbitrarily decided to outsource. All of them, it seems, suffered for years, and then decided to treat themselves like a real human being and find connection and sexual satisfaction. Kudos to them! And to hell with morality if it means further needless suffering!

Nothing wrong with going Dutch, and if you have a very long term affair going on that is eventually bound to happen. I am talking about shorter term outsourcing here though. I am making the assumption that the affair runs its course after a year. For me, the two lovers might want to continue, but I am satisfied now, and ready to let go. Nice guys, and would like to be just friends with them though.

And by the way, both of the affair partners get plenty of sex at home. I think that is why there was always a disparity between our needs. Kills the romance part of the arrangement you know, because I know they have nothing missing in their marriages, other than their wives have become too familiar to them.

Depends on what kind of an affair you are talking about. Emotional and long term affairs are one thing. Short and intermediate term affairs would be another. As I only know the latter, obviously I do not pay the ticket.

Fair enough. I guess I'm in a more long term situation. We found we have almost perfect sexual compatibility, which we actually found out the first time we had more than a quickie. Personally, I'm inclined to do what I can to hang on to that!

Am envious :-)

I can't believe it, either, but if you read my story, you'll see there's a catch. Seems like you can't win, eh? But, who knows, maybe it'll work out! And maybe us SM veterans are the problem, picking out messed up people to have relationships with LOL

I would choose the amazing lover who picks up the tab....if not I would move on. Call me shallow,selfish,whatever.... As a woman in a sexless marriage due to husband's illness for years, I have a lover who prefers to take care of all that. Honestly, I do not pay a lot of attention to the society norms about it anymore....Society likes the white picket fence option and that did not work out too well for either of us. Thus, my affair is long term...very satisfying and worthwhile and we both get what we deserve and desire.

lol....where do these folks come from? I still cannot figure out why they would be interested in stories from ILIASM, but oh well.

This post was meant for women in a sexless marriage. If you cannot relate to that problem, join a group more to your liking.

I can relate very much to this problem. I just think the advice is beyond bad, and following it could have terrible consequences, including divorce, physical violence, and negative emotional impact to the ladies and their families.

Then share your sexless marriage story. I am sure the group would welcome it.

MadInMissouri, getting a vasectomy and not wanting to have sex for a couple of months hardly qualifies you for the ILIASM group. This group is for people who have gone for a very long time in a sexless or nearly sexless marriage. Do you realize that I was in a sexless marriage for nearly six years? That some of us have tolerated it for much longer than that? So no, you cannot relate very much to the problem.

"Wow, what terrible advice. Cheat, and ruin your marriage, embarass your family. Cause untold amounts of emotional problems in your children. Wow."
WOW is right, where did you read that? This is not what the OP meant at ALL.

@einengel - so cool that you know my entire story,even without reading it! Did you realize that I was also in a sexless marriage for years before the vasectomy? It's only now that I was forced into the vasectomy (for any hope of sex), and that I don't really care now, that the shoe is on the other foot.

@oceansun - the whole article is telling the wife not to go out and fool around, and get her illicit lover to pay for it. If found out, there can be serious problems - who knows what a jealous or angry spouse could do? What would the children think when the mother tries to convince them it's dad's fault that she strayed? What about the other family that will get broken? There's too much risk for so little gain. If things are this bad, it's time to divorce.

Read carefully. I am not telling anyone to go out and fool around. I am telling women from sexless marriages who have already chosen to outsource, that she must be careful not to let her self esteem issues in any way govern her behavior in an affair. Notice I am not trying to convince any woman to outsource. That is an individual decision a woman makes depending on her circumstances.

madinmis..... "wow" You mention "the whole article is telling the wife not to go out and fool around, and get her illicit lover to pay for it" this is based on the OP experience, and she shared it with an open mind to bring awareness.
She is not advocating to cheat, your comment is very judgmental, and I really don;t care for your reasons.
BUT you would have gotten a different response had you rephrased your concerns or simply posted your fears "being caught, kids finding out, jealous H, and so on".
Your attack was un necessary.
Yes it was an attack, WOW!

A lot of people overreact to the notion of outsourcing because they are afraid, and yes it is a risky coping mechanism for those in sexless marriages and the risk level is dependent upon individual circumstances. If you live in a small town, and choose someone nearby, your risk factor goes way up. If you live near a big city like I do, and choose partner(s) from a nearby city, your risk is less. Since the guy is from Missouri, a state I know very well, I am going to guess small town with little opportunity to ease the sexual pressure without someone else finding out.

Engel, don't let this guy bother you too much. This is the third time I've seen a comment from him on a story - and none of the comments have been worth reading. He is judgmental, hasn't read anything on here, and thinks he is generously bestowing his wisdom on us. . . . !! Frankly I think we'd all be happier to remain in ignorance. . . . !!!

Amen to that Enna.

Bitter mate?

I am appalled today, just disgusted.

Yeah, I know. Lots of clueless folks come out of the woodwork. We gotta let 'em slide off our backs. Although, now that I read about jb (above), I am quite sympathetic to his plight. But I think his wife has some really deep undiagnosed psychiatric problems. The Missouri guy (latest poster) thinks that he is in a sexless marriage because he has not wanted sex since his vasectomy a couple of months ago.....man, he has no idea.

I am not self-righteous someguy. I am merely practical, and sought a way to fill a need in the most straight forward way possible. Incidentally, I also looked into finding a male prostitute (I am in Europe so they are legal here), but was looking at 200-350 euros a pop. As I have been unemployed until recently, that would not have been a wise choice.

And yes, my outsourcing partner has been very very pleased. Those of us who have not been able to express passion and affection for a very long time relish the opportunity to do so!

Wow, that is a tough one. But you know, if he is still of sound mind, even your H would have to admit that your seeking sex and affection is not unreasonable, in fact predictable. The humane thing for him to do would be to allow for a Don't Ask Don't Tell arrangement, at the very least.

I am sorry to read you are currently experiencing this issue in your own life so it is understandable you are very hurt and that gives a window into why you feel this way.

And just for your information, adultery is illegal in my state (Michigan) and is punishable by a maximum sentence of life in prison. However, the law is never enforced and is just on the books, enacted a long time ago. So yes, in about two dozen states adultery is illegal but is not prosecuted. In the military, adultery is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and can be prosecuted by a courts martial.

Or should I say RARELY prosecuted - there are some outliers out there in some states with respect to prosecution of adultery.

How does it feel when you meet and fall in love and get married or live with someone who plays by the rules just to catch you,then alas!after 2 years together,after a lot of questioning,he comes clean about his problems?He turns into a monster,he won't/can't make love to you because of his problems?He declines any kind of advice or help you are able to support with?Walk away and outsource,responsibly of course...

All what I understand that you are happily married, but giving advice(you really do) to people in the situation which is completely opposite to yours and you have no slightest idea of (from personal experience)... For instance my sexless husband in slow mental and physical decline... He will NEVER get better, he will not change.... He does not have anybody else to take care about him... He also had some suicide attempts in the past... Can I just divorce and move on? Can I just close this door behind me and look for new perfect love? Please, keep your personal moral values to yourself. It is dead easy to be philosophical if you live in your own happy oblivion... Don't be so smug about the others whose only fault is being less lucky than you....

I agree with FullMoon. The fallout that everyone "should at the very least demand we end the relationship" is simply not practical when dealing with many life issues. There is no black and white issue. One must weigh ALL the consequences of each and every path they take and then make an informed decision. At my older age I might think more harm might come if one divorces a spouse and leaves them without health insurance, or on the street and unable to fend for themselves and a host of other problems that arise for those in the over 50 age set. I might not divorce for infidelity but I might divorce sooner if the spouse puts me at long term financial risk. Everyone's values are different, and the picture changes as you age too - your dealbreakers change too with age.

Yes, there are gray areas as in all things with life, your situation is a gray area for sure. I am not senseless to your plight. For me the words we say should mean something or we are nothing ourselves. My great grandfather always said "my word is my bond", I was a kid and questioned him about what it meant. Does anyone remember what that means? At one time a mans words were everything... you didn't need a contract or a receipt. The vows I said when I married my wife meant something to me, they were a promise to her that I would commit to certain requirements in the relationship, as she did too. I think “to have and to hold” may be what quite a few people are missing in their life. So we are looking at “a breech of contract” so to speak. A break in the promise of love and affection that, has scientifically been proven to be an essential requirement of a healthy life. I believe that without the inhumane films I have watched when scientists deprived baby Rhesus monkeys from their mothers and the emotional damage that ruined their entire life... a monkey had no life with out love and physical contact. We are far more emotional beings than monkeys and we require love. (Some of us love ourselves enough that we need no one.) All I am saying is that in most, not all situations, that a divorce is the only way for some to get what is as much as a requirement of life that food and water are. Outsourcing, so to speak, I find repulsive for it is basically an affair. Maybe I am wrong, do you tell your spouse that you are getting what you need elsewhere and they say “Fine, I don't care”? I guess I am naive, sheltered, and have too much belief in our humanity. Will one of the intelligent, emotional, sexually deprived, almost hairless apes on this planet please push the button and give another species a chance to evolve into something better than we have. 2013... and we are still standing in the shadow of our cave.

-----"Maybe I am wrong, do you tell your spouse that you are getting what you need elsewhere and they say “Fine, I don't care”?" Yes - I did exactly that and have built a parallel life outside my marriage. Unusual? Yes. However, I get along pretty good with my spouse and he is a decent roommate and we share a home. He has no need for intimacy only my companionship and the situation has been working like this for three years now. It is what it is and I have accepted the situation. Remember, not everyone marries to share intimacy, they have other reasons to do so.

Ok, I am glad that you have what you need. Do you have one person that fullfills the other stuff and do you love them also?

I am in a long term love affair yes. I love this other person and we add tremendous value to each other's lives and have knows each other for over 27 years.

" Maybe I am wrong, do you tell your spouse that you are getting what you need elsewhere and they say “Fine, I don't care”?" No,I did not and not going to... He has psychiatric conditions,which prevent him to comprehend reality in adequate way.... Our communication is limited and very basic, mainly what he eats,what he wears and what pains he has or has not.... My emotions and needs hardly been discussed even at the better time in the past, now in his present mental state they do not exist for him at all...

The good part of this forum is that everyone has a different way of resolving thier current issues. FullMoon is doing what she feels is correct, taking into context her own situation, I am doing what I feel is best, and others do what they feel is best. The important take away is that choices can and should be made from a place of power and not a place of victimhood. That means choices need to be informed and risk assessed. The original poster of this thread has done just that, and has concluded that "outsourcing" is not appropriate behavior for her to engage in at this point in her life. Others, after consideration, might come to different conclusions. The paths that people take in response to LONG TERM, chronic sexless/loveless marriages will vary depending on their own personal life circumstances, culture, legal, financial, social impacts, whether there are minor children in the home, their work life, health and a host of other variables.

As I said, you are making an awesome decision to stay and take care of him, that in its self is testament to the good person you truly are. I hope I never burden my wife with caring for me in such a situation. I commend you, and you deserve what ever happiness you can find. Still, not everyone has a situation like yours.

"Still, not everyone has a situation like yours." Certainly... All situations are different... and have their own complications... I bet overwhelming majority of people here were expecting to live happy ever after...but now we all met here and discussing how to cope, how to stay sane and in some especially tragic cases even how to survive...

OK, I deserve all the bashing I received. I have been with my wife since she was 15 and I was 18. She is all I have ever wanted. But other aspects of my life have been less than perfect and I have suffered from depression. Anyone who has taken anti-depressants knows of the sexual side effects they cause. They know that I don't ever "get it" myself. That has not stopped me from fulfilling her needs in anyway I can. I am certain I could never live if she outsourced me, and making her happy is more than enough joy for me that I am satisfied emotionally. I hope I die first, because I cannot live without her. The jealousy alone would kill me if I were to be outsourced. As I said earlier, I am an idealist and believe the better parts of us, will, surface and ultimately allow us to become more virtuous people.

2lovernot - you read like you live in a happy and satisfied marriage. You are fortunate for sure! Here is to many more happy years for you and your wife!

" I am an idealist..." I was once...married my first love at the age of 17 ...could not live without him... 14 years after my world collapsed... and I learn to live again... still was in idealistic spectrum... Married for life again... Basically still married... after several years realized my husband has personality disorder,which was getting worse...and worse.... It is only my personal story in very brief description.... Everyone here has his/her own story full of very sad experiences...

I understand what you are saying and if I or my wife treated the other with such indecent behavior I can't understand why her or I would even want to be in the same house. I would rather live in a "van down by the river" then in the presence of someone so cold and calloused towards me. There would be a divorce and the end of our contractual commitment. I just can't understand how anyone can stay around someone who in essence, is abusing you in the worst possible way you can hurt another human being. No amount of money, health insurance, or whatever makes you stay is worth it. If I had to work at scrubbing toilets to earn enough money to leave them I would.

Have you ever heard about "slow boiling frog syndrome"?

Yes, but science has proven the frog will jump out when the water gets to hot. I have reflected on my thoughts and I think if my wife never wanted me to touch her again, that I would not leave her because she is the only love I have ever known. I guess the years of great sex and really feeling loved in all the ways you could feel loved, and the fact that she stayed home to raise our children makes my commitment an obligation for life. I owe her my life several times over.

2lovernot: I read like you are married to a soulmate. Indeed you are fortunate.