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What'S Your Real Risk Factor ?

If you are considering divorce, however idly, at this time - and presuppossing your ILIASM marriage is a typical dysfunctional deal, then you need information.

Hard logistical informetion needs to come from a lawyer in your jurisdiction. Not the ILIASM membership.

What follows attempts to establish the risk of you making some sort of horrendous life depleting decision if you choose the "get out" path.

The thing here is that YOU don't know how your life might go after you took the leap of faith out of your ILIASM deal, and I don't know either. No-one knows, with any accuracy, exactly how anyones circumstances will end up after the leap of faith.

So, what information do we have to make some assumptions about how a leap of faith, out, might go ?

Well, there is a rich source of stories in here (not indexed unfortunately) from people who have taken the leap. Their outcomes range from those now happily single, to those happily playing the field, to those happy in new relationships. These stories are the "good" side.

For balance, we need to establish members who took the leap, and landed flat on their arse in a position just as bad or worse. My problem here, is that despite being a pretty active member here for four years+, I have never seen such a story. Never. (have any of you ? - please direct me to it if you have)

Now, it would be ridiculous to say that the leap of faith carried no potential downside. Surely there must be some cases where the choice to leave the ILIASM resulted in a downside. A position as bad or worse than the ILIASM. Surely ?? But WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE ?????

On the balance of probability, and based on the known evidence, if you take the leap of faith, you are highly likely to land firmly on your feet.

Your real risk factor of finding yourself in a circumstance as bad, or worse appears to be quite low. Indeed, on the available evidence, extra-ordinarily low.

Tread your own path.
bazzar bazzar 56-60, M 17 Responses Feb 11, 2013

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deciding to weigh in here on the heels of a male who is pretty vehemently against the various and sundry "costs" of divorce which, he says, weighs nearly entirely on the men. wives, he claims, have a fairly easy "get out" card.

not from my experience. or that of my very best friend who wound up broke, broken hearted, and in fact committed suicide a year and a half ago.

my first divorce: exiting a sexless marriage to an emotionally and verbally abusive man who took advantage of my willingness to "be reasonable": i walked away with about 30% of the equity in our home, which didn't pay even half of the 70% of the debt i walked away with. and doesn't account for the fact a big portion of that debt was his--not mine--why i will never again hold joint credit cards with ANYONE. it took me 7 years to pay it all off. no worries, i was young and money ain't the measure of my life. freedom and happiness are.

enter my bff's story. three kids beautiful home she had one job her entire life at a law firm in admin. she paid the lions share of the family bills, including tuition for her kids for college. her ex fought the divorce even while having his girlfriend living in the family home with him and the youngest kids after my BFF had moved out. fought the sale of the home though he couldn't afford to pay for it. fought everything. result? my friend wound up broke, unable to qualify for another year of consigning the loan for her youngest's third year of college. desperate she went to her father to ask if he'd consider either a loan or consigning for his grandson. they coldly turned her away because they disapproved of the divorce and who she was living with (boyfriend) at the time of her suicide. she committed suicide in despair and the belief her life insurance and retirement monies would clear her debts and see her 2 remaining kids through their last years of college.

obviously an extreme story.

but i can tell you several other stories of women who've survived divorce who are NOT worthless freeloaders sponging off our former spouses.

for me i know full well that i will suffer financially. so the eff what. i want a LIFE. and I want. LIFE for my child. I want HAPPINESS for us. not daily misery.

I can always make more money, some how. I can never get time back.

Well put !

"I can never get time back." How sad and true, that's what I regret the most. My youth is gone and I can never get it back.

In hindsight, I would've spent more time developing myself before leaving, and would recommend this to others. By no means did I land on my feet...my arse, knees, and the rest got pretty sore from tumbling...I basically had to take all assumptions about myself and throw 'em out the window.

Offhand, I can indeed think of another member who documented his post-divorce struggles in great detail. Do the initials FM ring a bell?

Financially, I'm treading water. We equitably split it all 50/50. Sometimes I resent that, since he makes twice as much as me. C'est la vie...money does not define my happiness.

But without a doubt, I am a happier, more genuine person. The key there is genuine...I no longer adopt my actions to please others...I do what I want to do...I have learned to prioritize myself first.

So...long term, sure...I'm thrilled to be moving on. But when we advise others, we need to remember the (in some cases exceptionally) rocky path they'll be following. We need to remain realistic in our commentary.

Mine is a simple belief - my soul, my core is not measured in terms of material assets. I reckon people forget that the assets they have were accrued by their own brains and determination. It was done once and with the lessons learned along the way and the wisdom of age, it can be done again, but more effectively and with fewer errors.

<p>@jb02157<br />
Naieve ? Yep, that's me.</p><p>Mate, your post belongs in a group like "I Believe In No Fault Divorce Laws" or something like that.</p><p>Within this group, which, if you look, is the "I Live In A Sexless Marriage" and divorce is often an outcome of the situation. No one is holding it up as an "ideal" remedy, and only a fool would think that such a process is always going to be "fair" to both parties in the financial wash up.</p><p>For all that, in my 4+ years on this board, I am yet to see a story from some-one who got out of their dysfunctional marriage expressing a wish that they were back in it. Would your friend prefer to be back in the shithole he is now out of ?</p><p>If you are of a mind that the divorce laws in your jurisdiction are a **** up and unfair, then that is the direction for you to put your energy and intellect. Join a lobby group, register to vote, vote. Agitate. Make a bit of noise to your elected officialdom. DO something.</p><p>Tread your own path.</p>

A PS
- I reckon I got dudded in my divorce split. Most people reckon they got dudded. The reasonable spouse invariably thinks they ought have got more of the divisable assets, and the unreasonable spouse reckons they should have got the lot..
I was ok with the split (though, according to my lawyer I could have done 'better' than I did - ie I got dudded). If that was the price of getting out, then that was a price I was prepared to pay.

Bazzar,

Thanks so much for your clarifications. I do see however many men complaining about how truly unfair divorce is to them. They should take your advice and try to fix the horrible laws that exist in this country, but they do nothing and keep complaining.

I am surprised so many on here think that the cost...as in your entire financial future, is worth getting out. To me, the cost would never be worth it. If I have to be poor the rest of my life, life would be worth living.

Plenty of chicks reckon they got dudded too. A lot of it is jurisdiction dependent.

But if YOU have checked out what would happen in YOUR jurisdiction, and YOU have done YOUR sums and chosen to stay, who's to argue with your choice ? Not me, that's for sure.

But you DO need to be aware that if you are staying "under sufferance" your attitude is not likely to lead to a functional situation as your missus may get pissed off enough to divorce YOU. And then, the decision is foisted upon you, rather than it being YOUR managable choice.

My stbx will be walking away with 65% of our assets - actually more. I cannot deny it hit me in the guts. However, it was not the assets which elicited the feeling but really how she sought to obtain said assets. I could have fought her for a more equitable share, but that would only mean less for my kids and in the scheme of things, I have never subscribed to a debits and credits philosophy of life. I decided to sign it over. What price we decide to offer for our chance at happiness, intimacy, love and passion is entirely up to us.

Lao Tzu,

This is certainly enlightening...and distrubing. So if I read your post right...which it seems I've done a poor job of thus far...you are ok with giving your wife 65% of your assets to get out of the marriage...for what... another chance at happiness, initamacy, passion?? A chance... I don't know, I would want a better return on my money than that. First of all, what assurance do you have that the extra money you didn't fight for will go to the kids? You are trusting her to do that. Maybe that's not such a wise risk.

I guess that's why no guys are willing to try to change the laws...they're ok with them. I was trying to build a case for why divorce in this country is so unimaginably rotten. I guess I'm alone in this belief. There is absolutely nothing that would make me give up...voluntarily...65% of my assets. I've worked too hard in my life to give it it up that easily.

Then you have missed the point. There were no assurances when one enters into a relationship. In fact, there are no assurances of anything in life. Its funny how there is a tendency to be stuck on the concept of a Return On Investment. Its as if we can quantify the love and devotion we put into a relationship by its material trappings, as if the asset split determines what you are entitled as a return in lieu of the love you ought to have received. This is often why people cannot walk away - the belief of entitlement.

The thing is - most people would forfeit their chance at happiness and stay in a dysfunctional marriage partly because they feel they will not get a better monetary return if they leave (this includes both genders) - and this is sad.

Also, the issues between my stbx and I are not related to our capacity or competence as parents. Its important for people to be able to be aware of the nature of their relational dysfunction.

At the end of the day, I act in good conscience, not from an adversarial perspective, regardless of what my stbx does or does not do. It has nothing to do with legalities and everything to do with being authentic. I guess the difference between you and I is that we have a different opinion as to what our assets are. Mine are my heart and soul and the love of my children and I have no fear or insecurity related to my return on investment (to use your phrase).

Lao: to your replies: LIKE++++++++

ok let me put this a different way. I don't see it as return on investment, rather acceptable risk. Let's say you and I go to the race track and we bet 65% of our assets on the horse of our choice. Now, regardless of the odds for that horse, I daresay most people wouldn't be willing to take that risk. I think the odds that this time you will find the woman of your dreams or even a woman who will act half way normal to be no less than that of whatever odds you give yourself at the track. In good conscience, I'm not willing to take that risk. Also, for me anyway, leaving my kids in the custody of their mother would not be acceptable and giving up 65% of your assets leaves you unable to attract another woman...who's going to want to date you while you're poor. My friend in my above post already tried that. So please don't think I'm not willing to pursue happiness in return for money. Without divorce, then and only then can I control what happens to my kids. As you said before it's about what is your personal circumstances are.

Ahh here is the rub - for you. Your opinion of women is what clouds your judgement. You are entitled to it. For you, all things come down to credits and debits. Hence you cannot perceive of any intrinsic value which will attract a woman. You also speak of control over others and your envirnment - again not something which speaks to my beliefs. This is why you cannot understand my perspective. Love, ardor, intimacy and passion are not akin to taking a punt at the races. Its about opening up to someone and sharing of the self. In my opinion, like attracts like. Its worthwhile examining the values you find attractive - usually they mirror your own. If so, the person you gravitate to may feel similar about money, risk and so forth. Just a thought to contemplate.

Just to broaden one's perspective. I know of both men and women friends who have been left high and dry in their divorces. Moms who are left to shoulder the burden of raising kids whose dads are perfectly happy to be token fathers and sometimes not even that, as well as dads who are marginalized in their role, and I also know of divorced parentss who ttry to co-parent. What I am saying here is that your personal experience need not necessarily be the norm.

LT and Awake,

I never said relationships are like the games you play at the races. I was trying to make the point about betting your whole life that you will be able to find someone else who will be real to you. I honestly don't think, after what I experienced myself and through others, there is woman out there who is capable of a normal relationship. I don't want games, that destroyed our marriage. You talk about grand things like love, intamacy, ardor and passion, you won't agree but I'm not sure these things exist anymore at least I don't believe that I will ever see these things. I'm certainly not willing to bet everything that another chance with another women will be any better. I realize I picked a loser and that clouded my judgement...maybe you guys think that through endless paying...that you don't seem to mind... that you end up with someone worthwhile. I hope that you do...but the chances you will are quite slim.

Mate, there is a distinction between one's material assets and one's life - your own words "I was making a point about betting your whole life"...... I'd refer you back to my comment about values one is attracted to. The first authentic relationship we need to have is with ourselves.

I hope you come to realize that you are short changing yourself of the possibility of experiencing love and intimacy and passion. They aren't grand feelings (though they can and do make you feel great). They are really simple and interwoven within the fabric of any normal relationship.

There is no endless paying - this concept is your fear. You continue to default back to the race track or betting scenario - "I picked a loser". It speaks to your mindset. My suggestion is that you need to unravel your jumble of thoughts and emotions about your prior relationship, empty the dregs before you can fill your cup anew. Be well.

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Wow you must be quite naive my friend.

Most of these responses are fluffy responses from women who report, oh I was heartbroken...now I'm ok. That's mainly true because they have their husband's pocket to rely on.

You want examples of the negative side of divorce, ok I just heard this the other day. After divorce, 75% of men live at or below the accepted poverty level for their area. I live this every day. Many of my friends and co-workers have gone through divorces and have experienced the same things. They all comment about how much of a lost cause it is trying to make do with half of their money being taken away from them and on top of that, having to pay child support (where the money is almost never spent on the kids), insurance, college tuiton and a host of other expenses demanded unjustly by the ex-wife. Men do not recover financially from divorce, they never are able to live the same lifestyle. That's reserved by the courts for the ex-wives.

One of my closest friends just went through a divorce. He made a good living, had 3 daughters and life was good for him, all until his wife announced to him she had been having an extended affair with a guy she met on a business trip and was serving him divorce papers. He never knew what hit him, no clue anything was lacking from the marriage at all. He lost everything. His wife's divorce lawyer did a great job of researching his past and found "anger issues" noted by a woman supervisor he had over 10 years ago. In no time at all the lawyer had him looking like Jack the Ripper. He was granted vistation only when supervised. He was crushed. He loved his daughters. He cried unconsolably at my house that night...and I cried with him. That was just the begining. He lost his home that he had made ALL the payments on, 60% of all property and was forced to pay a huge child support settlement. His employer found out about he divorce and fired him because "he obviously couldn't keep his mind on his work". After the divorce his wife admitted that she never spent that money on the kids. When it was over he didn't have the money to even put down on an apartment so he stayed with me for awhile. Then the DFS said that he needed to "establish a suitable home" for kids or forfeit any time with his daughters. He was able to find an apartment he could afford but according to DFS is was not in a suitable neighborhood. I helped him get what was finally "suitable" but years after this he never financially recovered and misses his daughter terribly. They all say they want their daddy back. He also told me that women didn't want to date him because he didn't have any money. We agreed he was better off without.

A matter of weeks after this another friend was served divorce papers. He had a beautiful home on a country club. Even though his worthless wife had no job, she was awarded the entire house, both cars and full custody with no vistation rights to his son (who absolutely hated his mother). After the divorce he had move into a horrible apartment in a very bad neighborhood while paying the payments on his house in the country club and paying an inflated child support payment to her. His wife lived in the lap of luxury in his house, had countless affairs with other married men and blew all the money she was "awarded" in the settlement on a shopping spree that blew my mind...over a half million dollars. He will never financially recover from this.

You want evidence...here it is.

When you calculate happines in terms of financial benefit, you can be pretty sure that divorce will not make you happy. When you calculate happiness in term's of personal fulfilment and freedom to live authentically, you will find a VERY large majority find happiness.

You are obviously bitter and so you want to tar everyone else with the same brush . . . if you read widely here you will discover why your comment is not correct in the large number of ILIASM cases.

I guess it boils down to who you ask, a man or woman. As I said, I'm around divorced men all day. I hear how sad they are and how much they lost, both financially and emotionally. They long to spend more time with their kids, but are prevented from doing so. I have to disagree that the majority find happiness. Not one of those I know who are divorced are happy. I guess if you poll women, who have no reponsibility in a divorce, or in life for that matter, they may find "fulfilment and freedom".

I do admit that I am, to a certain extent, bitter over what has happened to my divorced friends and in my own sexless marriage. I just think that men who decide to go the divorce route need to see the toll it's going to take on them and how unfair they will be treated by the courts. This is precisely why I have decided not to go this route. I see it's uglyness every day and don't to be part of it.

If you have a genuine interest in sexless marriage, read widely on this forum. You will find that we are very like minded here, regardless of sex.

I guess if you stay away from divorce issues, yes, there does seem to be some agreement. I must say that I'm surprised to find so many women are going through sexless marriages, unfortunatly they have a much easier "out card" to play then men do.

Well, while I think there's little point talking to you about the topic JB, because it's pretty obvious that you have an "axe to grind", I must say that things DO seem to largely depend on ones jurisdiction.
Where I live, one may take a financial hit, but generally speaking nobody gets "taken to the cleaners". Not so for a Canadian friend of mine who does just as JB said ... he's near the poverty line, despite having an income not far from triple-figures, his slug of a stbx is not vacating the house so it can't be turned into cash ... he's paying the major part of his income to stbx and sprogs while the rest of it goes on lawyers fees (and of course he pays hers as well, will ye or nil ye). Yupp, it happens.

So what - I get to weigh up my happiness against a hundred grand or so? Five hundred? A million bucks?

That is a call to make for each and every one of us, and partially certainly seems to depend on just where on the globe you live.
My friend with the dead albatross around his neck nevertheless maintains that his quality of life is much better irrespective of the aggravation, drama and shenanigans of his stbx.

Again, I'm quite shocked by your post. As I mentioned above I never would have guess guys would be willing to volunteer "hundred grand or so? Five hundred? A million bucks"... to get out of their marriage for what? "quality of life ...aggravation, drama and shenanigans of his stbx"

So that's why divorce remain status quo...because guys are just fine a dandy with paying whatever. I see this as the biggest attrocity in today's society. Obviously other guys don't think so.

ok I'll shut up...I thought I was doing a service to point out how unfair divorce is...that it's apparenly not. Have fun paying your alimony, child support and whatever else...I'm not doing it.

Divorce laws are certainly wholly jurisdictional dependent and some states are more "fairer" than others - if we look at divorce in this light. And we have all heard the horror stories that happen within the Family Court system. No doubt about that. And for every horror story there is, there are other divorces that pan out equitably. My spouse has been married three times before me, two were long term marriages, and he has never paid a dime of spousal support - he did pay child support though. WHY? Because he always married women with their own careers who made a bit more than he did! And my sister recently divorced after 28 years of marriage (both had good careers where he made more than her in a skilled trades union job) and she was ordered to pay her former husband $65K out of her retirement fund to equalize the two retirement funds and make his has large as hers - because those funds are divisible marital assets. So location, location, location (the divorces all were in MI) in divorce does seem to matter.

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I think that the risk is directly associated with your general feeling of unhappiness while married. If you are truly miserable, and are leaving the marriage because of that unhappiness, the risk is minimal. But if you are only slightly unhappy, and divorce, you will have regrets. So the key is to be honest with your self about your situation.
As for divorcing in order to be with someone else....not a good idea.
Leave the marriage because the marriage is bad, not because you met someone else who just MAY be a better partner.

I agree so much, neuilly.

The best advice IMHO that I ever got in talking it out with others was to make sure I had all my stuff sorted and was actually me before starting the new relationship. I was told by someone that I need to be out and on my own - before taking any relationship beyond friendship. It was explained to me that the new relationship would be as out of proportion in the perceived "goodness" as the old one is perceived to be full of badness. In this view the actual condition of either is not really available as the emotion colors the perception. When out you can see it for as really bad it may have been - or realize that it was actually not so bad as you thought but still intolerable. And you get to sort out the stuff left behind without having to carry the nasty bits past the new relationship.

When you have sorted, and come to your own terms with the end of the relationship - you have a better basis for being you, and knowing who/what that is as opposed to the anti-whatever it was you disliked your ex.

Wolfy, it's good advice - be on your own for a while and sort things out. But ... then you meet a wonderful (er, I mean, normal) partner and then you realize how extremely dysfunctional your previous relationship was. And then you have to sort out and let go of even more of what you call "the nasty bits". Your new partner, being a sane person and recognizing that you are actually working on it, will understand and be supportive.

You are in my age bracket and to quote an IRL friend: "We don't have a lot of time to waste, do we?"

Wolfy, you are singing my song! I TOTALLY agree with you . . . . but!! Like Chai, Awake and others, the right person came along at the "wrong" time!! My advice? Don't actively seek out relationships in your "recovery period" - but if one finds you, don't overlook it for fear it might not work out.

Consider it to be like that puppy that follows you home! You weren't looking for a dog and it is the wrong time to adopt a pet . . . but are you ever glad you listened to your heart anyway!! lol

Spot on Neuilly. Varying degrees of unhappiness should help determine the final decision.

I guess it depends how free you are to make happiness the determining factor. Sometimes other things, like children and finances and joint assets, play a big role. It might not seem like it now, but when you are 65 years old and struggling it will. But with no kids, very few joint assets, no threat of poverty by leaving, then yeah, I would leave even if I were a little unhappy.

Enna -

I am pretty sure that "friend" that I have mentioned is that wonderful.

It just makes it that much harder if I let it become a "relationship" before I really can do much about it. So maybe the advice I got fit my situation better....

Still..... I want to have as much sorted as possible before I buy the puppy a collar...

yes, age does play a factor, I agree... going through my divorce from my first refuser... I told my refusers lawyer, when we were going over who was going to get what and how i was going to be able to make a new life for my self.

i told him, hey look, im not 20 with 20 years of youth ahead of me... get real here...
as if i was magically suppose to be able to go out and create a upper middle class life style for my self once the ink dried on the divorce papers.

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When I was going through separation and divorce, I was amazed at the number of people I knew who confided that they were divorced and/or in their 2nd or 3rd marriage. No one who took the initiative on divorce seemed to regret it, and all thought that their lives had changed for the better. Some went through some hard financial times, but got through OK.

There was absolutely no downside to me separating and divorcing, except losing contact with in-laws for whom I had a great deal of affection. For the year that I was alone, I was actually better off, financially, than when I was married, because I was free to make choices that reduced my living expenses.

Do the math. Do the research. Talk to the lawyer. You might be surprised.

He retired. I had lived alone in a small town in the mountains for 17 years as I had lupus and Phoenix was killing me.

So I left. We had married to give our kids two parents and I thought that would be enough, but aaggghh!

So I left and to be quite truthful, between our two incomes I was very comfortable, nothing luxurious. I would have really, really struggled on our combined then divided retirement &amp; Social Security (from disabling lupus). The weird thing is, I was faithful all those long dry years, and then ran into a guy I grew up with in Colorado who is everything. Everything I ever wished for in that we fit, it's as easy as breathing. My kids are furious with me, but I have found more than just sex with him - he adores me. I think that he is the kindest man, he really thinks I hung the moon and stars. He thinks I'm beautiful.


How could it get better? Well, he could be wealthy and healthier - but I don't care at all. Happiness, lovely sex, laughter, quiet contentment, the risk was great, the rewards pricesless.

There is much to be said for leaving - There are those that simply decide the personal cost does not outweigh the benefits and choose to stay...And then there are a few of us that...Gate 1. Absolutely will not leave when the collateral damage includes something beyond our ability to justify it. Like having to find either a place for Mom - or someone to watch her that will be nowhere as good at it - as my wife. Leaving is a death sentence in some place nasty for Mom....unacceptable collateral damage. My fricking problem/choice<br />
Addendum to gate 1 - Yes - my dear asexual and eager to point fingers at me dears (with the little kitty avatar and all)....I gave - and do give her credit for that.....lots of credit. I really don't know how she does it. AND - I recognize that it is tiring and not particularly inspiring day after day. She likely does not feel energized and open to sex because of it. SO before you beat me over the head for that....yeah I GOT IT.. No I am not following her around in the evening begging for it like some sex starved minion. But ....when I offer a day off. When I ask if there is something she would like- or like to do....when I try to engage. I am firmly and with brash callousness, told to bugger off. This is me loathing loss - loss of even the ability to enjoy being honest, giving, or receiving any intimate something. Not me looking for a chance to go dancing, or to the art museum ...or whatever...though those are nice things. It is much more fricking complicated than that. I have covered all that ground in my other stories and forum posts....so you bugger off. I deserve a smile - just as much as you...what makes me smile is different than yours. You mistake comparison with complaining .....I am not whinging...I AM stating that love needs a refill...and if I cannot fill her well because she will not allow it....from whence will I draw?<br />
Gate 2. Know there will be a division of assets (currently that shakes out at its worst a recoverable issue). I will likely have to pay her some support: ...reason -.no matter how much she thinks she will get a job after Mom passes (which is likely no more than a few years to as little as this one)...I think that will be an issue. She is 50 and unhealthy, and has been out of the workforce for nearly 10 years. I know she longs to go back....I know she has, by choosing to stay and keep Mom, and by turning the mortgage into a reverse in Moms name, made a trap for both she and I. Though there is evidence in the housing market that this move may actually save tens of thousands of dollars....She may be a genius that will take a little time to find out. She on occasion indicates that she would like to be able to go back to work. With so many younger, better educated, current in today's software, healthy folks standing in line - it could be a real source of depression for her. And that will make her finding a job difficult - the credit score her money management has left us with will result in a very difficult housing situation, and that will also increase her depression. A depressed 50 year old that gave the last decade of her life to tending to my mother - A. will have a very difficult time getting hired...and then not at enough to support her lifestyle. AND B. represent a very empathy encouraging case to present to a female leaning court (which has already been demonstrated to be true in fact - from experience)...she will win substantial support. With my credit damaged, and my extra source of income (my wood shop) delivered into the storage area, I will be living in a one-room rat hole....or something near that. <br />
Addendum to gate 2 - I can live with the rat hole - I can maybe even manage to store my stuff until I re-build my credit and purchase a place where my stuff and I both fit. I do not mind paying her support so long as there is sufficient left to allow me to build. The current lawyer endorsed view is that will be very tight _ and require a 5 year plan and that some of the stuff might be viewed as needing to be sold since I bought it when we were married - though some argument can be made that since she was not working at the time and the money came from my 401K therfore it is not community property. The vehicles are....and that will leave me making a payment as she will get the better vehicle. There is no public transport here to speak of. SO I - need to build a walk-out fund...sized so that split in half... still gets me a snowballs chance in the desert of making a life other than "homeless person" . This requires TIME <br />
SO - my choice is to fake living with it - and not creating undo stress....until such time as #1 gate and #2 Gates are a bit more likely to open. Then I can risk "the talk" - subjectively analyze if something of a spark returns - sans mom, and take care of Gate 3 .....<br />
GATE 3 - establish that in my mind I did nothing to create the need to describe a normal function of living - encountered by many in their journey - into gates that need opening. I do not want to repeat this....and I do not want to carry UNNECESSARY baggage into whatever the rest of my life will be. Especially as having lived though Mom going it alone from my age 10 until now (Dad died when I was young and mom did not re-marry) - I do still want another relationship.<br />
Only Gate three is not locked at the current time.....hence Wolfie stays. It is not a pleasant choice....it may actually hurt more as other relationships vanish with time. Is is not particularly brave ....as In "I don't care what it costs...I need out". It is fraught with possible problems _ I.E she may require lots more of the funds via medical bills etc...causing my exit stash to be longer in coming. But it is the only choice that Wolfy can live with.....Gate 1 assures this ....gate 2 re-enforces..That is where I am.....

Interesting thread, I haven't checked in with ILIASM for awhile because mine has become ILIAASM so I am getting some occasionally, but age catches up with us all. I came from an environment where my mom and dad divorced after 23 years of marriage. He left with another woman, moved to another state and I never saw him again. I ended up sharing what little inheritence I had with the children of his second wife that he was married to for less than 3 years. I was not going to relive history

My "Real Risk Factor"......that's easy....the risk of staying in my dysfunctional marriage far outweighs the risk of leaving it....it's that simple. My risk factor is low. If I stay, I know with 99.9% certaintly that I will remain in an unhealthy situation that will manifest in many bad ways and that dysfunction will affect more people than just me (children). If I leave, my situation is very likely to improve because I will no longer have a dependancy on an emotionally unavailable companion. My suffering should decrease dramatically with a coinciding high-level of increased happiness once I am no longer living "the lie" or living in the dysfunction.

For me, the Real Risk Factor is staying in a dysfunctional situation that cannot ever be fixed. So, the risk of a worse life circumstance after my divorce is very low (I have spent a long time assessing this risk) and I've already taken that leap of faith and I'm not worried too much about the landing - my parachute is properly packed.

a story i needed to see this morning--timely!

thanks as ever bazz.

it's a rough go and gonna get tougher for a while yet but...this too shall pass!

Ok, what happens when you decide to bail out...

In a nut shell, what you expect will happen. to state the obvious it is:

1) Everyone gets hurt for a while until things settle down.
Other people have emotional investment in you staying in the position you are in. When you decide to leave that changes their position. Time must pass so that they can adjust to the new way life is. Things then get better. If people decide they don't want to know you after you have committed this terrible act of selfish survival...so be it. They weren't on your side anyway to start with.

2) You have to spend money and you will be less well off if you have to support children and a home for them.
This is true to an extent, that being the cost of the divorce process. But if you are single then that is about all there is to it in real terms. Children need a home and support and if they are a factor then true financial cost to you leaving is the incremental cost of you living you own life on your own, your accommodation and the costs around that. You would have to feed yourself, cloth yourself etc. anyway so that isn't a key factor.

3) The division of friends.
There is a very good old saying, never apologize. Your friends don't need you to and no matter what you say to the rest, it will never be enough. You friends will come around. If they don't and feel they need to take sides, again so be it.

4) Your own state of mind changes
You will, at some point, think you are the worst person that crawled the earth. Look back, remember and keep going forwards. The light gets very bright and warm very quickly as you start to function as an independent person again. You may even think life was better when you spent night after night feeling alone and rejected whilst living with your partner. This WILL pass.

5) Your ex-partner
This is a tough one. But, if you have executed a thought out financial exit plan, they will come around. They will need time to go through the emotional change process, the same as everyone else. But, and this is going to upset a few people, they are only loosing their meal ticket, go-for, token partner, status symbol. symbiotic host etc. They stopped investing real emotion in you long ago when the intimate relationship between you died. You suddenly acting as an independent adult will be a shock to them and the loss of control over you even more so. But after a period of time where the see that they have no power over you, that this is something you are going to follow through with, they will get over it and you may find that you have pretty much the same relationship as you have before you hit the divorce button. Hell why not, nothing much will have changed relationship wise.

So the bottom line:
It will cost you some extra cash in the short term.
Life changes but you have most of the control over that.
People will be pi**ed at you. But they will get over it.
Your life will go on and you get to build again.

But always, act with dignity and fairness. Even if others don't. You will thank yourself in the future, even if you think it sucks today.

I recall you from a couple of years back Brother D. You got out obviously. Nice to see you again.

Yep, got out and lived.

for everyone else out there..
Short term, the truth is guys, life is crap. No matter how well you plan things, your guilt will be there and you will do stupid things and feel crap.

It passes. Just remember why you are doing what you are doing.

Whilst I say things will be crap, they get better damn fast once you decide to start living again.

@De12.
Would you consider posting your above reply as a story ?
I think it is a very valuable reference point for the membership, and as a stand alone story, it is far more likely to be viewed by many more people than it will tucked away in a comment.
It is too good a post to leave hidden in the comments I reckon.

Leaving is scary and hard. You wrote this so well and seemed to include every detail. You are right. If anyone has reason to question that, they just need to look around at the people they know who have left. Are they crying about it years later or have they moved on and are happier people for it?

1 More Response

I have seen the odd assorted comment or two (not stories, however) from folks who did get out and lamented their worsened position of loneliness. They post just a couple of lines that nevertheless express palpable anguish.

I think we will never know from the evidence of the board. The ILIASM culture is based on the premise of "know thyself and leave." The high percentage of stories telling us how much better life is on the outside of an SM is compelling. The comments laud the good sense of these posters and we (at least, I) get a vicarious thrill from their happiness as I work towards my own. If I got out of my SM and then found my life in either an equal dump or worse, I'd be too damn embarrassed to come back here and post a full cautionary tale about how we all better stick with our current situations. Why would I want to tell everyone to despair and, like Candide, that we already live in the best of all possible worlds?

That being said, the number of positive apre-SM stories in the midst of such a large group with thousands of stories does imply a high rate of consistent satisfaction outside of the SM.

I guess you are right in another way, too, Bazzar. Even armed with a good circle of support, an exit plan that includes the legal ramifications and monetary back-up, and improved interpersonal skills, leaving an SM will always require a leap of faith. At the risk of littering the board with another bad simile, the advice and support of the ILIASM board is like the slingshot that will help shoot us farther than a simple broad jump we make on our own.

The things that aren't so good for me:
I miss not having the double garage to keep my stuff in ad my hobby car.
I miss my hobby car - sold to fund leaving
I miss not having the big TV in the large lounge in the big house that the kids and my wife now live in. But I get to watch it with the kids from time to time.
I miss not having enough money for a couple of vacations each year.

What I miss is stuff that comes with a price tag. I can live with this, perhaps later in life I will get back to them. What I miss are bought things that I thought meant something to me and we needed in my life or that held me where I was.

You know what...I don't think I miss them at all, just the idea of what they were supposed to be.

Whats your deal breaker?
Whats your risk factor?
Baz what's up, Enna away again???
LOL kidding great post

You are most perceptive Sister O. Ms E is indeed absent, seeing her Grandughter. interstate.

Rolls out the carpet and welcomes you back to "temp" SM.

Bazzar,
Well said. The only counter balance is that the journey is a difficult one and has a price but it has been worth it for me!

Oh yes. Likely one of the hardest choices and tasks one will ever undertake. I've made no attempt to address the difficuly, only the outcome.