An Affair (Rule) To Remember - Follow Up

I received quite a few emails from women after posting my story called "An Affair (Rule) to Remember", that I feel compelled to write one more story for the uninitiated, i.e. further points for women in sexless marriages, who have decided to outsource. I have gathered some other points about the whole outsourcing process, pitfalls one might call them, and then I will cease discussing the whole thing because the topic seems to bring out so many indignant comments.  But those who have never experienced a sexless and affection-less marriage cannot even imagine what it is like.

First, please read Enna's story called "Outsourcing Your Needs".  Link here -EP Link

EP Link 
That is the best set of considerations preceding your actual outsourcing and I did not read them until way way too late.

Second - Remember to use Affair websites, not Dating websites, and if possible look for men who are also in sexless marriages.  Avoid single men and think twice about men from open marriages if yours is not.  Men from sexless marriages would have similar need levels as yours, and single men and men from open marriages have power to cause trouble for you, if they like, since they do not have anything to lose if they were to take a notion to "out" you to your husband.

Third -Now that you know you should not bring your self esteem problems to the affair (as recommended on An Affair Rule to Remember story), decide in advance, please, that you will limit yourself to a FWB - friend with benefits - arrangement.  Don't think about falling in love, or use the affair process as a means of doing so.  You want physical release and friendship, not another husband, right?  (Come on, do you really want to do that again?  - sorry to my fellow ILIASM friends who found true love this way.)

To those women who have not yet embarked, the whole process can be terrifying.  I know.  Until you do it the first time, your nerves will probably stretched thin, so try to be calm about the whole thing and insist on being treated with respect.

Fourth - But now here is the worst part....

It is called limerence.  Please do not mistake that initial feeling you have for your new friend with benefits for love.  It is gonna seem like love because your husband has not touched and loved you in a long time.  Give it a few months.  This limerence problem will subside.  (credit to Maryryan for mentioning it at the beginning of my journey).  Once you snap out of it and realize how truly lonely and empty your marriage has become you might even go on a crying jag.  This too will pass.  It is part of the waking up process.

Fifth -Move on several months and on to another difficult question.  Do you like this arrangement?  Does it add value to your life or is the process more stress than what the physical release and good conversation is worth?  From here you decide to carry on or end it.

If you choose the latter, I hope it is because your marriage has turned around or that you have found something else that eases the loneliness of your sexless marriage.  If you choose to end it, I also hope the FWB is okay with ending the sexual part of your relationship and that you always consider each other to be good friends.  (Yeah, despite the non-commital nature of these kinds of arrangements you might be surprised to find some men are bad sports about ending it).

If you choose to carry on the relationship, then I hope he brings you pleasure and friendship to your life for many many years.
EinEngel EinEngel 46-50, F 17 Responses Feb 13, 2013

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"limerence" This is a big one, it makes you act crazy. <br />
<br />
"I also hope the FWB is okay with ending the sexual part of your relationship" Even when you're "okay" with it, it still hurts to let go.<br />
<br />
Maybe it was more than just limerence.

I stumbled across this post, and found it interesting on how you approach the matter at hand so clinically, almost as if a managed project. Its an interesting perspective, but somehow seems to forego the notion of love and beleiving that a new relationship or even an affair has the potential for love

Interesting, nonetheless :-)

Thank you. I suppose my approach is influenced by my career. Marriage is a merger, an affair is a joint venture. As far as love is concerned, I understand this because it almost happened to me. Then the feelings subsided. Thank G-d they subsided.

So is there also scope for the hostile takeover, the white knight...or is this just greenfields

Love knows no transactional resides in the heart, and only in the heart

Yes, and if love were to happen, I do not think my marriage would be strong enough to stand it. Thus, I tried my best to keep the affair a "managed project".

Two separate abodes...your mind and your heart

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Well, well.......Now this is interesting

I have just read this again. Perfect!

I have to say ,as a male from an ILIASM relationship,who followed this path it was absolutely wonderful....until i comitted the cardinal sin of falling in love.

It may be ethically and morally wrong to do so or say so but affairs or FWB relationships are a great option. If i could add one more rule.....follow the 3 D's........Deny Deny Deny

OMGoodness! This forum beats any reality show or soap opera to date.
EinEngel, keep on keeping on!
The rest of you all, be encouraged.

<p>To those referring to the Bible for answers, the Bible is very clear in 1 Corinthians 7 that the marriage contract means that you do not own your own body. In other words if a husband wants sex his wife must give him sex and if a wife wants sex her husband must give her sex.</p><p>This is clearly God's perspective on the issue and He designed sex to be the central core of a healthy and Godly marriage.</p><p>The problem for many on here is that their spouses are completely disobedient to the promises that they made on their wedding day.</p><p>Unfortunately the Bible gives no clear solution as to what one does in this situation. I have come to believe that every sexless marriage is different - as there are different factors involved. But in my opinion no Christian (or anyone else) has the right to criticise any option that another takes unless they have been in a sexless marriage for many years and know the absolute devastation that such a marriage brings and have remained completely un-tempted to do something about it.</p>

FYI, I added a post sc<x>ript to my first "Affair to Remember" story. I hope this gets a lot of non-ILIASM folks to calm down and go find a forum more suited to their interests.

did not work so I will post here-
Postscript - I had no idea posting this story as advice for women in sexless marriages would bring on such a barrage of comments from people outside of ILIASM. I only did not want any women who are from sexless marriages to make the same mistakes I have made, because then the risk is that the outsourcing exercise makes the whole loneliness, alienation, and self esteem issues worse than they were beforehand. Fortunately that was not the outcome for me, but it could have been.
For what it is worth, I have found my personality and cognitive tendencies to be incompatible with outsourcing (for instance I am quite introverted, so all relationships, even affairs, are "work" to me). Other things, actually bring me more fulfillment. The one pleasant by-product of outsourcing though, is that it did help me reclaim my sense of self, of womanliness, and attractiveness, but there is no need for me to carry on outsourcing now that those elements have been restored. Outsourcing, also, ironically, made my marriage more tolerable. Somehow it helps to know that the lack of affection and intimacy is not about "you". And the men? I consider them both to be friends and great conversationalists. I hope they want to stay friends, but we shall see.

Step 1: the poor me syndrome... oh why me!!!
Step 2: meet the guy, set up the date....
Step 3: spread your legs and pray its as good for him as it was for you! lol... or not.
Step 4: give your significant other 5 inconsistent stories as to where you were and why.
Step 5: significant other finds out through a friend, extortionist, or catches you.
Step 6: your partner *******, beats you senseless, or murders you in a jealous rage or all 3.
Step 7: everyone hates you because you're a ****.

Hence the necessity to read, fully, sources such as "Outsourcing Your Needs" which dispassionately sets out the pro's and cons of such an option.
This is not an realistic option for the fainthearted, or the uninformed. There are numerous downsides to it. It ain't all flowers and hearts.

Your informed choice is "not" neuroticabberation ? That is a perfectly legitimate choice for you.
Someone else's choice is "yes" ? That is a perfectly legitimate choice for them.

Yes, "Outsourcing Your Needs" should be required reading to anyone contemplating it.

Outsourcing is not for the faint of heart. No doubt about it. One must be willing to pay whatever consequences MIGHT come along, or, in other words "If you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the porch". Some can gracefully handle engaging in these behaviors while others cannot. Some are skilled at compartmentalization while others are not. EinEngel handled her situation as she sees fit. Risk management practices (as in ALL areas of life) must be enacted.

A guide to cheating? I'll try and contain my disgust. But even if I didn't have my moral viewpoints, there are almost always better solutions.


I haven't had anything resembling sex since my last boyfriend (almost 2 years ago). I have a massive sex drive.

Rose Honey, I hope you never know what it is like to live in a sexless marriage, but since you are younger than 21, I would guess you have a long way to go before you experience it. It is very very lonely, and you pretty much feel abandoned. I was single for a very long time and married at age 37. Somehow, the loneliness of being single is not nearly as bad as the loneliness of a sexless marriage. I can promise you that.

My friend, the lack of restraint I see in people nowdays disgusts me beyond belief. Again, I have a massive sex drive, and while I have certainly never been in a marriage, I have had boyfriends who refused sex until such a time. I imagine the principle isn't all that different.

Yes it is. Marriage and all it entails, from a legal, financial, and parenting perspective is entirely different. You are a pretty lady, so I have no doubt you will find this out one day.

Still, cheating in any form is inexcusable. There are always choices, and the one that destroys another's heart is not one that should ever be considered. My twin sister whom I love more than anyone else in this world and who I've literally done almost everything with was in a relationship with a guy for two years. She loved him. He cheated on her. She resorted to SI after a very long period of depression, and eventually almost attempted suicide (I found the note and web history of searching on how to do it and talked her out of it). I almost lost my closest companion to fools who thought it was okay to cheat because the other took a vow not to do anything like that and stuck to it. Now perhaps you'll see the other side of things.

She was in a relationship, but not married with children, and a mortgage, and mingled finances, and legally bound to him. Different situation. I promise.

"the one that destroys another's heart is not one that should ever be considered."

Do not forget that sexual rejection and abandonment in marriage also destroys the hearts of the refused. Outsourcing is not the choice made by everyone here at ILIASM but it is a choice some make.

It doesn't matter. The result is the same. If you love someone and they sleep around behind your back, you're going to be crushed.

So then it is okay to turn around and do the same? I think not. I apologise if I am being overly abrasive. This topic is one that lights a flame within me that blazes above all other emotions. I hate cheating.

That's fine. You can choose to hate it all you like. It doesn't change the fact that other people don't feel the same way. You can choose to judge and be negative or you can choose to embrace other people and see the vulnerability and honesty with which they put their lives on display even in all their flaws and imperfections. That's up to you to decide. Just like it is up to whomever is outsourcing or is not outsourcing to decide what they choose to do.

I'm sorry about your sister's situation though, FWIW.

I'm not having an affair and haven't cheated, I'm no longer in a sexless marriage and yet I think there is benefit in having a conversation about protecting oneself from those who might mistreat women or men in any situation. No one WANTS this to be their best option but for some, they determine for themselves, it turns out to be the one they see as their best option. You can condemn it - which will automatically mean they listen to nothing more you have to say - or you can listen, try to understand, empathize and care about their pain but then you can share your thoughts in a way that maybe they can hear because they feel maybe you actually understand. Again, it's your call. I prefer to actually hear and understand the people here before I cast judgments, if I do at all.

I understand the mentality perfectly. What I don't understand is how anyone could have it. How you could possibly consider the choice of breaking your partner/mate/spouse/bf-gf-whatever's heart simply because there's no sex? I find sex to be a sacred, maybe even spiritual act. Now, while being deprived of spirituality is bad, I can't imagine ever defiling myself in such a way. I did it once, actually. Never shall I do it again.

You can not possibly understand the mentality until you have read at least 100 stories of 100 different posters here. You can not possibly understand how they could have it until you choose to open your mind and heart to feeling what they have felt. What harm does it do? Better yet, what good does your judgment do? Do you actually think it will change anyone's behavior to be judged harshly by a complete stranger on the internet?

You are also of course assuming that it would break the partner's heart. Many times in these cases outsourcing refers to when a partner permits the other to take a lover because they no longer wish to have sex with their spouse. It happens, it happened to me and it wasn't cheating for the short time I had a FWB. My ex encouraged it because he really had no interest anymore but I did. When we talk about outsourcing there are many different variations. So you can't possibly understand the mentality of all the different variations.

I am, of course, referring only to cheating. To me, that's out-of-relationship sex with one of the two in the relationship unaware or unwilling. This, I think, is one of the most deplorable acts within a relationship, marriage or otherwise. The harm it does is great. Very great. If one I loved cheated on me, I truly don't know how I'd go on. I would be crushed. I can't speak for anyone but myself and to a lesser extent my sister, but from everything I have observed about cheaters and those who have been cheated on, it harms quite a bit.

If you are going to stick around here and talk about harm it would help if you understood where we are coming from. We have at the moment at least one actively suicidal member after years of a SM. There have been many more at times. Harm can come from many places. If you continue to hold to your belief that the worst possible harm to a person always comes from an affair and there can be no pain worse you will find that very few here will take you seriously. We are all different and some people simply do not agree with you that the worst harm possible in a relationship comes from cheating.

This is very heated. I am the aforementioned sister. While I don't really like my story being posted publicly (I'm going to have a word with K about that later), I do think it shows the worst case scenario. I would never commit adultery, but I can somewhat understand why someone would. The body has needs, and I guess you can only ignore them for so long...

...and in hindsight this probably isn't the best place to make my debut...

-----" This topic is one that lights a flame within me that blazes above all other emotions." Generally this topic does. But do not let your emotions eclipse your intellect for then you will never, ever gain a deeper understanding of other people's responses to long term, chronic sexlessness. And that is what you want - to understand and learn more - correct? You do not have to agree with the position of "outsourcing" - but there are many opportunities her to learn beyond your own paradigm.

The thing -I- don't like is when they do it carelessly, without regard to the other person in the relationship.

Which I would be tempted to say is how it usually is...

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Best comprehensive analysis of affair and things to remember in having an affair,,, and for the people who bring religion in every debate ,, what r u doing in this forum anyway ,, go to church and ****** by priest s much better than having bit of fun while u r going through difficult and stressful time in ur marrriage,,, Sex is as important as food you eat and thats how human being are but some ppl dont wana leave their spouse and kids just cz of sex,, and in that case you are saving your marriage and your kids lives by having sex outside just like when you dont have food at home you eat out,,,

I'm agnostic, and I still can't stand cheating or those who participate in it. Religion has nothing to do with the nastiness of it. I, in fact, despise the Christian religion.

Oh Rose! The older I get the more I know one thing. Judging people for how they choose to live their lives when it had nothing to so with your life is well...kinda judgmental and well...kinda mean. AND possibly short sighted.

Thank you for this word - "limerence". I do think I may have this problem in whatever my next relationship would be! Did anyone not outsourcing but just dating have this issue?

I'm sure it goes for both.. I would apply much of above to new dating as well as to out-sourcing. I mean, really, you likely aren't looking (or ready to find) for your new "soulmate" right out of the gate.. Personally, I plan to keep things light and fun till I feel honestly ready for another committed relationship.

There are groups here that involve themselves in taking moral positions about other peoples choices - indeed YOU opened one a while back as I recall.

If you have got a judgement to make, take it back to your group and make it. Anyone who's interested in what that judgement might be can read it there.

I don't see anywhere is Sister E's post where she was looking for a moral point of view.

Tread your own path.

I reckon you've missed a fundamental plank in the platform here Sister E.

That being the need to recognise that this move could result in blowing up the primary relationship (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and thus you need a doable exit strategy in your pocket BEFORE you embark on even typing out your internet profile.

Outsourcing is actually high risk stuff, and if one adopts a cherry picking attitude to it, just picking the "good" bits of such a scenario and conveniently ignoring the potential downsides (and there are plenty of them) is to make an uninformed choice. And it is uninformed choice that has dumped us in the **** in the first place.

Outsource ? Sure, if it's a good fit for you, go for it. But make it a fully INFORMED choice.

Tread your own path.

good point Baz. I should have added it to the post, but was rather in a hurry to reply to all the emails I got from the ladies.

Actually, you ALSO have to have a doable exit strategy to unload the outsourcee to should it start to prove troublesome.

Amen Baz, cannot emphasize that enough. Your ideas for that specific problem have been very helpful.

While I am moving through to other things as one commentator suggested the offended do, let me see if I understand are PROMOTING adultery, correct? You're promoting the devastation to children's live's, unsuspecting spouses and the extended families, not to mention the actual women themselves who would bite down on the hook to take the bait.....AND to shatter the Commandment God gave that we NOT commit that about right? And for promoting such devastation and deception you can sleep at night??!......Moving right along now....

If you had bothered to read anything on this board you would see that adultery can, in fact, save a marriage.

We're not talking about people just deciding to screw the flavor of the month for some variety here. The group is for people living in a sexless marriage. For many of us, this makes us incredibly unhappy and eventually leads to confusion, depression or rage.

As for me, I've not strayed yet, but I sure as hell understand someone who does. I would have divorced my wife 6 years ago but for my children.

Lastly....unsuspecting spouse? If you refuse to have sex with your spouse (with the exception of for health reasons, both physical and mental) I think you should expect that they will eventually seek sex elsewhere.

In the end, you are absolutely correct. We are not to commit adultery. But when faced with the idea of never feeling emotionally, romantically or sexually close to anyone for the rest of your life, it's hardly a choice to ridicule. Just my opinion.

Your morals are your morals. But your attitude, LPCP, is beyond judgmental. Please save it for your Sunday School.

-----"Moving right along now" That is the smartest thing you have said.

"feed the trolls... tuppence a bag... tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a bag!"

Let me start off by saying I can't stand your god. Read any of my other religion-based posts and you'll know that. :P But Christians and I do agree on one thing: cheating is inexcusable. There are always better alternatives to adultery. And yes, adultery is extraordinarily damaging to the other party.

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Limerance - yes, I suppose that's where I am. It's not an affair per say but... yeah. Know I need to be more careful but it's so hard.

So okay, this is the last I will talk about this any more outside of my blog. In fact, I might even go back and erase this story and the prior one. But these things have got to be said. Really.

Aww, leave them! These things DO need to be said. And you have identified your intended audience. If others outside of the intended audience find it offensive, they should move on.


Okay. You talked me out of it.


May I ask for a link to your blog?

The people that have been condemning the idea of the affair, don't have the background information concerning a sexless life.all of us in this group understand and realize the different emotions and depression, and hurt we deal with daily. Many who choose to have an affair, do that to have the ability to remain married awhile longer. The affair actually sustains the marriage.

Lets face it Engel. Those who are judging are not open minded or open hearted enough to empathize with any of our situations. They are using God as their reasons why not, without considering what the Bible says about sex in marriage.

Here's my new stance with these people. The Bible says there should be sex in marriage. If there's no sex in marriage then there's no marriage and therefore no reason to limit sex to within that marriage.

They still won't get it. Sheeple generally don't.

Well, I was trying to move along :) Actually my friend, I AM IN one of your marriages and it's been 16 years, and NO I still don't condone throwing my spouse under the bus because despite her refusal, I STILL love her selflessly and sacrificially without expecting in return. Am I Superman because of it? NO, it still hurts at times, but my wife means more to me than that. Marriage is not about sex, but about a life commitment which the culture decimates and derides, encouraging self happiness above everything else.....the very first commandment in the satanic what thou whilst is the whole of the law.

The bible says that if there is no sex in marriage that there's no marriage??? Can you provide book, chapter and verse to justify that please? Or as you said in prefacing that statement, this is YOUR new stance? This isn't the God of the Bible, but one of your own making who will never hold you accountable because he does't this sheep would really like to move along, but thank you for your comments.

I don't have to, you can look here yourself for Biblical references to the importance of sex in marriage from a religious pov. It's been discussed here time and time again.

I didn't comment on your stuff Layne. I ignored you. For good reason. Closed minded people who think the way they do it is the holy way, the only acceptable and the way other people deal with their own individual circumstances and pain are wrong are the worst examples of God's followers. The God I believe in would rather we love and empathize with each other instead of judge. That's in the bible too... or do you need me to point that out as well?

Don't delete any of this! These issues have a tendancy to bring forth the "torch and pitchfork" crowd and people can decide for themselves what has traction, or not...

I don't think I can make it too clear that I'm not in any way part of the God-fearing ******** that grace my agnostic eyeholes with their endless preaching. Religion has nothing to do with hurting someone else. I fully agree with the Layne man, other than the bible crap. Your life isn't "all about you", and if you think it is, get over yourself.

Agreed. Let the underlying good sense (or lack thereof) of the various points of view stand up under their own steam.

And - frnd me so i cn c ur pics

You're gonna have to give me a better reason than that for me to friend you, mayte. ;P

Actually, screw it, you seem cool. Good enough for me.

If you weren't referring to me, feel free to ignore me while I go crawl under this rock ^.^

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