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If The Refusing Spouse -

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(1) -is operating from a basis of consciously and deliberately engaging in this behaviour, then you have a real big, and probably insoluble problem. They are pro-actively choosing the behaviour to manipulate the dynamic to exactly where they want it to be.
The chances of that changing hover at close to zero.

(2) - is operating from a basis where it is a natural and intuitive behaviour (not driven by deliberate manipulative motives) then you have a HUGE and insoluble problem. You are dealing with behaviour that is natural, fully entrenched, and is part of who they are.
The chances of that changing hover at zero.

Tread your own path.
bazzar bazzar 56-60, M 7 Responses Nov 1, 2013

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To be fair though, this is sheerly a binary representation of situations. There is a third, something which is largely the second situation but is induced by something more recent. That could be ill health, mental trauma, stress etc. etc.

In such a case, there *might* be a chance for salvage. One or two people seem to have somewhat pulled it off, but it's honestly not very common.

I suspect (but have nothing to back it up) that there are a lot of marriages that have two matched people with "intuitive" refuser mindsets in both spouses. And, they are likely very happy unions, meeting the needs of both quite well.
There is nothing "wrong" in and of itself with "refusing", UNLESS it is inflicted on another person who is NOT in accord with that position.

How hard would it be to develop a litmus test, similar to a turing test but for refusers? Any psych experts in the house?

Why would that be necessary ? If you are being refused, the motive behind it makes no difference to the outcome.

So you don't marry the (non)*******!

Ah, I'm with you. A pre-emptive test.
After reading your response, I was thinking about tests some people undertake re STD's before starting a sexual relationship, and had a vision of a person testing positive for many STD's - and the potential partner, rather than being aghast, thinks "Yay !! I've got a real goer here"

Bazzar, even when you are appalling, you are very funny!!!

You've got HOW many types of HPV? Woohoo! Jackpot! LOL!

Yes. My situation is the third. It's not that he refused. He could not. But then he did refuse other methods. Oh I don't know. After 15 years I of zero intimacy I am now refusing...I mean, if he suddenly wanted to try.

Fifteen years? That's masochist :(

My husband slowed from several times a week to once or twice a year by the time we were married only 3 years. I had a very healthy libido, but he just had no answer for why he didn't want to. After so many years of this, I eventually shut myself down, and always dreaded even that once-a-year. Tomorrow is our 23rd anniversary... Ironically, we are divorcing now, after all of these years, because I just found out he'd been having affairs all those years.

Ugh - that's so foul, sorry to hear that. There's nothing that is a slap in the face like learning your refuser has been ******* around :(

I agree!! my refuser has a online g/f he can only deal with fake women apparently

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hmm well my refuser i believe operates from a conscious level but has now turned into innate behavior, due to his refusing activity for the last few decades, it is ingrained! his first wife and now me (by the way he also refuses his sons love too )

My feeling is that it is almost always #2. Reason being that people like to feel and portray themselves as beneficent and self-justified. #1, taken baldly, does not do so, so people surround themselves and come to believe, that their horrid behaviour is justified, and even in some cases, laudable.

This is not confined to refusers, I rather think that the behaviour of those in power now, and the over-reach of the security services, reflects this self-serving immorality.

*** This is not confined to refusers, I rather think that the behaviour of those in power now, and the over-reach of the security services, reflects this self-serving immorality ***

WHAT???

Empire building by the NSA and the decay of the rule of law. Lying to congress and getting away scot free. The number of bankers in jail for the Libor scandal. The political elites in their own self-serving cocoons.

They all self-justify. But they act immorally. Reading Phil Zimmerman's account of the Stanford Prison experiment is quite "enlightening".

oh the republicans living in a bubble and see fox news as their god ... got it!

Don't pick sides, it's all one big game of bad cop/worse cop to them. Sit out the debate and watch and you'll know...

This isn't my first rodeo

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how can you know which one they operate from?

Maybe you can pick which one is in play, but the point of the post is that it doesn't actually matter, given that the end result is the same.

Distilled truth: ******* on junk science and bullshit philosophy since 1867.

I would chide you for being so negative, but... as usual, you are right.

Mine was #2.

A whole lot of number two in all our cases, LOL!

*Spews coffee*
Well-played, sir, well-played... :)

Two online spit takes! I should start keeping score LOL!